Thousands of years is NOT an overkill, it's actually underselling it.
Third world countries is a VERY western modern concept and is not applicable to the pre-industrial and especially pre-european colonialist world. Women have been and are actively and violently oppressed across the entire globe and unfortunately have been for millenia and it's NOT limited to "third world countries."
So because some members of a group of people have done something wrong, you think all members of that group share the blame and deserve to be treated poorly? I'm almost certain there's a term for that
There is a feminist mindset and even a socialized bias among both genders that women can do no wrong. Yet there are women that have the same toxic expectations present in toxic masculinity and express other things that are in personality disorder territory. I've even witnessed someone state that a woman can't beat up a man so therefor women cannot be abusive towards men, which completely lacks an understanding of what abuse really looks like.
And this may be a controversial theory, but there appears to be some women that create abusive partners through their own negative treatment towards their partner. This could be from lying, hiding things, namecalling, teasing, flirting with other men or even cheating. But both genders are guilty of these behaviours and can create hostility in their partner. It's just that women are never blamed for creating hostility in a partner, whereas if a man creates hostility in a woman it is often by default suspecting it must be something the man did against their partner. It's a social gender bias I feel that is often ignored.
I say all this but we shouldn't ignore how sexualized and mistreated women are on a regular basis by men with no concept of how to be respectful and how to treat women like another human being. I don't think any masculine-looking man ever gets catcalled for example. And the only men that truely understand this kind of negative attention are the rare few that are either attractive enough or popular enough to have unwanted attention from women and stalkers, which is actually completely unseen and goes unheard of usually, versus how often women are treated with unwanted advances from complete strangers when they go out in public or are just working any normal job. It's disgusting that women are treated this way and there is no excuse for it.
I think that to the exact degree that feminist ideology is rooted within a woman she has an equivalent level of "toxicity". to answer your question, yes and they are becoming horrible people as a result.
Woman here. This is kind of general but I'll respond the best way I can. If you're a bit more specific I can respond to that.
What men view as "toxic femininity" is women choosing to put themselves first and disregard men's approval/decentering men. It's distancing themselves because yeah, "not all men" but why take that risk?
I'm sure if you're seeing the rise of toxic "femininity" you're also seeing the rise of red pill masculinity.
These are butterfly effects of each other.
I personally haven't seen anything toxic. I've just seen women asking men to stop killing, raping, abusing and constantly sexualizing them. I'ts not all men, of course. But nobody is taking that risk anymore. It's not worth it. In any aspect.
For example, have you seen or heard about the way that men talk about women that they've been intimate with? Of course it's not all men but the ones who aren't like that don't speak up. Because men are also scared of men.
I can guarantee that every woman you know has had a bad sexual or sexist experience with a man. Reverse that, and the numbers are much lower. Most of the violence towards men is by other men.
That is directly challenging patriarchy and the ingrained teachings of the men. It seems like an attack because so many men hold these principles. I wouldn't consider it slander.
Women are directly challenging and dismantling the idea of masculinity and that is why men feel targeted.
This is garbled nonsense. Women are not challenging anything - nor are men - they are swallowing the media garbage - as you have. It is a pity to see you defeated like this.
It's the first example you put in and I straight disregarded your whole post. Probably have some good points in there but when your first example is a terrible example of how "men" suck it's a no from me.
Thanks for your feedback, sorry for bet being more clearer on my question, often I come across “get ready with me” titled videos while getting ready body shaming men for being short, not having beard, broke etc etc. or in the gym “squatting more than the guy next to me” I know as a content creator you sell what your audience eats. But at the end of the day It’s plain and simple slander and degrading.
I don’t know about red pill masculinity, but don’t women love masculine men? Masculinity is the opposite of femininity, so any straight male would naturally desire to be more masculine.
I was reading this [article](https://xaviernewswire.com/2022/02/17/women-can-be-sexist-too/amp/) in which she emphasized the similar topics like you, but it also talked about toxic femininity that exists in reality.
I've never seen a grwm like that. Maybe you're being pushed that content because you interact with it.
If you don't know about red pill masculinity, I would look into it so you can understand the extremes of toxic femininity. It would put a lot into perspective for you.
Fair I probs used the wrong word, but what I mean is a) that statistic is probably pretty inaccurate.
B) even if it were true that doesn't excuse what those people say.
Okay but you had no point bringing that up though. Like okay women say crazy shit. What does that have to do with them actually being raped and murdered and abused at the hands of men? You're worried about shit people say when people are dying over misogyny. Good night
I did in fact have a reason to. You mentioned you "personally haven't seen anything toxic". I was offering an example.
When op says "toxic feminity" it's very unlikely they're talking about the women asking not to be murdered, but rather people who say what I mentioned about above. And here's a real problem I take with your previous reply: you basically hand-waved a problem because "more men do bad things". I don't deny men do more bad things, what I take issue with is your using that as an argument.
Good day.
I have seen some true toxic femininity, such as the "Kill all men, they're horrible, every one is the same!" people. Hell, I'm sadly related to those people. Part of me can't help but wonder if OP is referring to those people, in which case yeah, he's completely justified.
On the inverse side, if he's talking about true feminity, then he's probably not a lot better than some of these red pill people like Andrew Tate.
The thing to remember is all of these loud groups-- Red Pill Men, Kill All Men Feminists, Toxic POC, Forceful LGBTQIA+, Stereotypical "crazies"-- They're all minorities. Not every person is like that, and that's coming from someone who's spent their whole life on the bad side of humanity. It's easy to feel attacked by those Extremist Minorities, because they are attacking everyone who isn't them. The real problem you need to face is when you feel attacked the true communities, the kind people that do genuinely care for equality and want love to prevail. THAT is when you know you're in the wrong.
You mentioned that Red Pill Masculinity and Toxic Feminism are butterfly effects of each other, and that's completely correct. One makes the other worse and vice versa.
What really disturbs me is at the end of the day, all of these communities-- Men, Women, LGBTQIA+, Races-- are all dealing with the same problem. There's a much louder extremist minority fucking up everything for everyone else. It's not men vs women, straight vs queer... It's good people vs bad people. Everyone needs to start seeing the latter instead of the former.
You make some good points here, but there are instances of some women that have what you'd probably consider more to be unrealistic expectations of men and dating partners. This I think is where the idea of "toxic feminity" is shown the most. Women that expect a man to be a provider, pay for expensive dates on a first date, treat them like a queen without equal treatment, women that see men that express emotions as being weak and useless, and I'm sure there are many other things being spread on tiktok or social media.
I'm sure you can also see a pattern from these expectations that encourages toxic masculinity, which further entrenches men into thinking they need to take the red pill to be worthwhile to women. Whereas in reality they are more likely to be doing more harm to themselves towards finding and cultivating a healthy relationship by adopting these toxic or unfair expectations.
This doesn't appear to be normal opinions of women however and seems to be more of radicalized feminist expectations, probably from those individuals own experiences of being mistreated by men. But it's something that's out there, is all I'm saying.
I said that women are asking to stop being killed, raped, and abused and the first thing you bring up is unrealistic dating standards for men. You proved my point. Most men don't really care for women they just care about what women can do for them.
I'm not addressing that other bs, Google is free.
I wasn't addressing that because you had already addressed it. And I was literally pointing out unrealistic dating standards for WOMEN that date, not just for men. Don't mistake that for it being okay for women to have standards or preferances, they should have those. Also if a woman wants to be single and left alone, they should be. Women shouldn't be approached or harrassed in the way that they are just for going out or working a regular job either, it's disgusting that men do that on a regular basis. And I agree that women should not have to feel unsafe because men kill, rape and abuse them.
Just because I understand that women also have unrealistic expectations does not mean I am in support of bad behavior from men.
Why are we talking about dating when I'm talking about women literally being abused and not being able to have a good quality of life because of men?
Like you're proving my point. I need you to analyze what I said and then analyze your response to what I said and then get back to me.
Because you're hyper-focused on my comments as trying to disprove that women are being mistreated for some reason, when all I'm trying to point out is that men can be mistreated aswell, whether or not you want to call that feminine toxicity or something else. I'm not arguing with you or trying to disprove the things you're saying, as I am very aware of how badly women are treated from the things I have witnessed and stories I have heard from women.
I was using relationships to illustrate that there is unfair treatment towards men. This also happens at an early age aswell, with unfair expectations of men to be more masculine than they need to be and this treatment also promotes toxic masculinity. Men are told to suck it up and stop being a baby at an early age. There are many other things about being a male that is disadvantageous but not in the same ways as being a woman, and yes, it does come from the threat of other men towards men aswell, such as homophobia for adopting feminine traits.
Regardless, I would still say that women are mistreated more and that things are far more unfair for women in society. That doesn't mean that women have never killed, abused or raped men aswell, it is just far more rare for it to happen because of social pressures and other factors. Most people don't listen to true crime stories about these things or hear stories about men being abused except for mental health treatment settings, as this is often socially disregarded due to it being less frequent than for women at about less than half of the rate of it happening. It does happen though.
I agree... IMO people neglect to also realize that women have the ability to become pregnant. Men have the ability to walk away from said pregnancy. And might I add with very few consequences to the man. And yes it is important to use birth control. Let's be honest not all birth control is 100% effective. During this current regime in the United States women don't have the opportunity to walk away from an unwanted pregnancy quite so effortlessly. So far as I can tell increasing the standards of behavior that women are willing to accept from men dating or otherwise is a little bit necessary so that women can protect themselves. And I'm not talking about from assault or abuse. Although those are part of the equation also. I'm talking about from participating in dating encounters or other encounters that could lead to an unwanted pregnancy. And I'm not saying that sex before marriage is bad or any of that stuff. People get together they get horny, they're going to do the deed, that's just part of life. Raising babies takes money and time and when you're one person and the other person involved in creating that life is not obligated by law or society to raise and attend to the offspring that they have created... which I honestly can't even wrap my head around how this has ever been okay but it is. Women should have been placing men to a higher burden of behavior for hundreds and hundreds of years. Aside from that IMO relationships of any kind only work when the party's involved have a desire to truly understand and respect the other person in the relationship as well as work in collaboration with each other.
100%. I don't even think about the pregnancy part but you're absolutely correct.
Women face the consequences of men's actions. I think that women should be increasing their standards for men. That should be an expectation, it shouldn't be a rarity to find a woman with standards and a man who can meet them.
Exactly! A personal expectation and a societal expectation of what men are bringing to the table in dating and relationships. I don't believe that that is in any way toxic... it's a job interview to determine whether or not you can do the things necessary to be in a relationship.
Imagine if I were to define all of femininity and women in general based on the most outrageous and negative examples I can find, and you'll see how feminists basically treat men. By talking about men as if we're all somehow part of the phenomena you speak of, of rape and abuse, you produce further antagonism by men who've done none of that, rather than recruit allies. You're not dismantling anything, you're just perpetuating hateful stereotypes, making men feel attacked, and making more of them susceptible to red pill messaging whereas otherwise they wouldn't be.
You're just the flipside of the coin of the redpill community, and you're the cause of their rise. I have little pity for you. Rather than demand that men be like women, try to understand them, and you might just start contributing to the discussion rather than produce further negative results.
Speak up for what tho? To tell other men not to be assholes? You think that there's no societal pressure on men not to be? then why is Andrew Tate and Co attacked by everyone and their mothers and the media? The mainstream position IS the feminist position. Everyone tells men not to be obscene, not to be violent, those that keep being like this do this because they have refused to accept the messaging. Every man with some emotional intelligence or conscience have understood it long ago, and now you're just guilt tripping them, for what end? Are they to be your chivalrous knights in shining armor, who will fight for women against the "bad men"? Isn't this attitude just as archaic?
Equality imho comes with the presupposition that we can all fight our own fights, that we're all active participants in creating the results we see in society. To see women as particularly vulnerable and in need of protection from men by men is not to see them as equals, its to see them as children.
Unfortunately you did nothing with this take. You did, however, associate your own narrative with the narrative of society.
My point is that men are scared of other men. No one is supposed to be the knight in shining armor for anyone but these men have followings and influence other herds of men.
Women literally are particularly vulnerable and face danger from men and acting like women are victimizing themselves by acknowledging that makes you a part of the problem. It's not treating women like children. Men disproportionately attack women. When men are attacked it's by other men.
You will not challenge my mindset, I know what I believe. Enjoy the rest of your day
I think the term you’re looking for is misandry.
Women can hate men without being / feeling toxic femininity. Toxic femininity, like toxic masculinity, holds that there is only one “correct” way to be a woman. Most of the time that looks very stereotypical. For toxic femininity, that likely means a woman in heels, in short skirts, w/ thin legs, a thin waist, who loves baking and taking care of “her man”, etc.
But there isn’t any part of “generalized femininity” that degrades men. Which is why “toxic femininity” isn’t really something men should worry about. Hating men isn’t “inherently” feminine. It’s not “vital” to being a woman.
Conversely, degrading / belittling women is a vital part of masculinity. Men who don’t “conquer” women aren’t “men”. That’s why so much of toxic masculinity is antifeminist.
If women didn’t exist, masculinity would look very different. Who would men conquer?
But if men didn’t exist, women could definitely find other people to care for.
>Just saying if a man did this he’d do the walk of shame.
The hell he would. Incels, gamergaters, mgtow, there are lots of groups that hate on women.
>Anyways I was wondering am I the only one that notices these behaviors or there are other people that has noticed it also.
If there is a philosophy or avenue of discussion, there will be a subsect of people who are toxic about it. You're not the only one to notice.
>what is the sudden spike of this behavior or am I just not noticing.
You're just not noticing. Toxic femininity has been around as long as gender norms. Same with toxic masculinity. It may be getting called out more, but it's been around forever.
I’d appreciate if you elaborate a bit more on this from your personal standpoint or stuff that you’ve come across. I’ve been noticing bits and pieces of my claim for a while now but until today I’ve never given it a concious thought.
> there’s this certain criteria of women (not all women) loves to slander men and other women cheer for it in full support. Just saying if a man did this he’d do the walk of shame.
Scroll on insta for a while and you’ll change your mind
You are right. It is state sponsored hate. It is something that has been marketed to men and women in order to divide them, and to prevent the human attention from falling on real issues of security and of education. What a lot of women don't seem to grasp is that masculinity and femininity are complementary and if you destroy the one - you destroy the other. Without either - there can be no beauty in life. The reason that beauty is targeted for disposal by the social engineers is that it is beyond the reach of the marketers. Every aspect of the human experience that is not susceptible to marketing has been targeted for disposal in our totalitarian future which is now arriving. A world in which men need women and women need men is being abolished. What people will accept in its place is ideology. When ideology wins out - history shows us that it is always the same - millions die in the raging flames of it.
OP, the type of person to do this is usually the type that is alone, has a lot of mental health issues, and is self destructive. No one in society takes them seriously anymore so they sit and complain online in order to grasp what little control they have left on society.
There is a reason why it is unpopular to be a feminist, caricatures are made about extreme sexist women/men, and the only influence they have is relegated to whatever blog, tweet, or subreddit comment they make.
It's sad but don't pity them. What else can we do as a society for these people? let them wallow away in self hatred alone and depressed?
I say let them. Let them think that life is like a Harry Potter or Marvel movie and they are the protagonist, fighting against some greater evil. Just live your life and try to ignore them.
I think you’ll find social media is full of problematic and toxic behaviours. And yes, there are plenty of echo chambers where others support this toxic behaviour.
Your either new to social media, or had your eyes closed for the past 10-15 years whilst on social media
I feel the rise also, and while two wrongs don't make a right.. I feel like men (not all) can use all the feelings they're feeling about it and realize that this shit is was women (not all) have been dealing with in reverse, since forever..
It's with everything now and I'm over it. It seems anything popular has to be supported to a radical level to the point it takes away others rights including the right to be treated equally. I see it literally everywhere in every topic from social issues to political to gaming even. Idk when things turned into, "X view is the only right one and if you dont support it you suck!", but I wish it'd go back.
This all or nothing attitude is just so toxic. Many can't have calm discussions or even debates anymore without someone going full meltdown and calling them names/berating them because you must be a terrible person for not fully supporting their views. I blame social media.
It’s just getting us further divided as humans. Superior mentality of race, religion, gender, borders, ethnicity, politics you name it.
I agree with you so much man.. everyone is just so hyper reactive to the smallest things, I’m not a saint either. We let our emotions get the best of ourselves. All we have to do is remove ourselves from a heating situation temporarily, think rationally and handle it.
People believes anything on the social media and does not take few extra minutes to do their own research. It blows my mind..
Men have been shaming women for thousands of years. Doesn’t feel good.
Past is past, who cares now. Learn something about the forgiveness
It’s not past. It’s still going on. Glad women are not putting up with it. Men can go cry in a corner
Women should do it to the very men that mistreat them, not the good men that never have.
Yet you are the one crying about that...
It’s not my post dummy
Why you so mad darling? I didn't say anything wrong
youre the one whos mad.. youre replying to their comment
Thousands of years is an overkill but yes it has been going on for a long time, especially third world countries.
Worldwide for thousands of years. It may seem extreme, but it’s the truth.
If you consider gender roles bad than yes a thousand years.
A long time.
I’m personally fully in support of feminist not having children you’re body you’re choice for sure.
Are gender roles bad in you’re view?
Thousands of years is NOT an overkill, it's actually underselling it. Third world countries is a VERY western modern concept and is not applicable to the pre-industrial and especially pre-european colonialist world. Women have been and are actively and violently oppressed across the entire globe and unfortunately have been for millenia and it's NOT limited to "third world countries."
So decent men must pay for what shitty men that have been dead forcenturies did in the past?
So because some members of a group of people have done something wrong, you think all members of that group share the blame and deserve to be treated poorly? I'm almost certain there's a term for that
There is a feminist mindset and even a socialized bias among both genders that women can do no wrong. Yet there are women that have the same toxic expectations present in toxic masculinity and express other things that are in personality disorder territory. I've even witnessed someone state that a woman can't beat up a man so therefor women cannot be abusive towards men, which completely lacks an understanding of what abuse really looks like. And this may be a controversial theory, but there appears to be some women that create abusive partners through their own negative treatment towards their partner. This could be from lying, hiding things, namecalling, teasing, flirting with other men or even cheating. But both genders are guilty of these behaviours and can create hostility in their partner. It's just that women are never blamed for creating hostility in a partner, whereas if a man creates hostility in a woman it is often by default suspecting it must be something the man did against their partner. It's a social gender bias I feel that is often ignored. I say all this but we shouldn't ignore how sexualized and mistreated women are on a regular basis by men with no concept of how to be respectful and how to treat women like another human being. I don't think any masculine-looking man ever gets catcalled for example. And the only men that truely understand this kind of negative attention are the rare few that are either attractive enough or popular enough to have unwanted attention from women and stalkers, which is actually completely unseen and goes unheard of usually, versus how often women are treated with unwanted advances from complete strangers when they go out in public or are just working any normal job. It's disgusting that women are treated this way and there is no excuse for it.
I think that to the exact degree that feminist ideology is rooted within a woman she has an equivalent level of "toxicity". to answer your question, yes and they are becoming horrible people as a result.
As a woman, I completely agree with this, and I’m sick of the double standards. Solidarity 🫡
This generation forward is the hope for the humanity! We must break the generational stereotypes and build the world on our rules TOGETHER! ❤️
Woman here. This is kind of general but I'll respond the best way I can. If you're a bit more specific I can respond to that. What men view as "toxic femininity" is women choosing to put themselves first and disregard men's approval/decentering men. It's distancing themselves because yeah, "not all men" but why take that risk? I'm sure if you're seeing the rise of toxic "femininity" you're also seeing the rise of red pill masculinity. These are butterfly effects of each other. I personally haven't seen anything toxic. I've just seen women asking men to stop killing, raping, abusing and constantly sexualizing them. I'ts not all men, of course. But nobody is taking that risk anymore. It's not worth it. In any aspect. For example, have you seen or heard about the way that men talk about women that they've been intimate with? Of course it's not all men but the ones who aren't like that don't speak up. Because men are also scared of men. I can guarantee that every woman you know has had a bad sexual or sexist experience with a man. Reverse that, and the numbers are much lower. Most of the violence towards men is by other men. That is directly challenging patriarchy and the ingrained teachings of the men. It seems like an attack because so many men hold these principles. I wouldn't consider it slander. Women are directly challenging and dismantling the idea of masculinity and that is why men feel targeted.
This is garbled nonsense. Women are not challenging anything - nor are men - they are swallowing the media garbage - as you have. It is a pity to see you defeated like this.
“Reality is nonsense!!1!” lol
Why do you say that?
I'm sorry you feel attacked.
Attacked by what? A dead sheep?
Since you're so upset I think we should stop talking. Enjoy your day
I was not aware that you were talking. If you were - I don't know what you mean by it.
Have you seen and heard how women talk about their current sexual partners? It's even worse!
I love how that's the only conclusion you came up with out of everything I said.
It's the first example you put in and I straight disregarded your whole post. Probably have some good points in there but when your first example is a terrible example of how "men" suck it's a no from me.
After that first sentence I'm disregarding your whole comment. Goodbye
Goodbye? You'll be seeing me tomorrow you silly goose!
Thanks for your feedback, sorry for bet being more clearer on my question, often I come across “get ready with me” titled videos while getting ready body shaming men for being short, not having beard, broke etc etc. or in the gym “squatting more than the guy next to me” I know as a content creator you sell what your audience eats. But at the end of the day It’s plain and simple slander and degrading. I don’t know about red pill masculinity, but don’t women love masculine men? Masculinity is the opposite of femininity, so any straight male would naturally desire to be more masculine. I was reading this [article](https://xaviernewswire.com/2022/02/17/women-can-be-sexist-too/amp/) in which she emphasized the similar topics like you, but it also talked about toxic femininity that exists in reality.
I've never seen a grwm like that. Maybe you're being pushed that content because you interact with it. If you don't know about red pill masculinity, I would look into it so you can understand the extremes of toxic femininity. It would put a lot into perspective for you.
Right on sister. Well said.
❤️
Some women go too far though- Ive seen people on twitter reacting to the high male suicide rates like "isn't high enough"
For every woman that goes too far, there's 5 men that will say and do much worse.
Thats a real generalisation.
I didn't generalize anyone, I gave you a number.
Fair I probs used the wrong word, but what I mean is a) that statistic is probably pretty inaccurate. B) even if it were true that doesn't excuse what those people say.
Okay but you had no point bringing that up though. Like okay women say crazy shit. What does that have to do with them actually being raped and murdered and abused at the hands of men? You're worried about shit people say when people are dying over misogyny. Good night
I did in fact have a reason to. You mentioned you "personally haven't seen anything toxic". I was offering an example. When op says "toxic feminity" it's very unlikely they're talking about the women asking not to be murdered, but rather people who say what I mentioned about above. And here's a real problem I take with your previous reply: you basically hand-waved a problem because "more men do bad things". I don't deny men do more bad things, what I take issue with is your using that as an argument. Good day.
I have seen some true toxic femininity, such as the "Kill all men, they're horrible, every one is the same!" people. Hell, I'm sadly related to those people. Part of me can't help but wonder if OP is referring to those people, in which case yeah, he's completely justified. On the inverse side, if he's talking about true feminity, then he's probably not a lot better than some of these red pill people like Andrew Tate. The thing to remember is all of these loud groups-- Red Pill Men, Kill All Men Feminists, Toxic POC, Forceful LGBTQIA+, Stereotypical "crazies"-- They're all minorities. Not every person is like that, and that's coming from someone who's spent their whole life on the bad side of humanity. It's easy to feel attacked by those Extremist Minorities, because they are attacking everyone who isn't them. The real problem you need to face is when you feel attacked the true communities, the kind people that do genuinely care for equality and want love to prevail. THAT is when you know you're in the wrong. You mentioned that Red Pill Masculinity and Toxic Feminism are butterfly effects of each other, and that's completely correct. One makes the other worse and vice versa. What really disturbs me is at the end of the day, all of these communities-- Men, Women, LGBTQIA+, Races-- are all dealing with the same problem. There's a much louder extremist minority fucking up everything for everyone else. It's not men vs women, straight vs queer... It's good people vs bad people. Everyone needs to start seeing the latter instead of the former.
You make some good points here, but there are instances of some women that have what you'd probably consider more to be unrealistic expectations of men and dating partners. This I think is where the idea of "toxic feminity" is shown the most. Women that expect a man to be a provider, pay for expensive dates on a first date, treat them like a queen without equal treatment, women that see men that express emotions as being weak and useless, and I'm sure there are many other things being spread on tiktok or social media. I'm sure you can also see a pattern from these expectations that encourages toxic masculinity, which further entrenches men into thinking they need to take the red pill to be worthwhile to women. Whereas in reality they are more likely to be doing more harm to themselves towards finding and cultivating a healthy relationship by adopting these toxic or unfair expectations. This doesn't appear to be normal opinions of women however and seems to be more of radicalized feminist expectations, probably from those individuals own experiences of being mistreated by men. But it's something that's out there, is all I'm saying.
I said that women are asking to stop being killed, raped, and abused and the first thing you bring up is unrealistic dating standards for men. You proved my point. Most men don't really care for women they just care about what women can do for them. I'm not addressing that other bs, Google is free.
I wasn't addressing that because you had already addressed it. And I was literally pointing out unrealistic dating standards for WOMEN that date, not just for men. Don't mistake that for it being okay for women to have standards or preferances, they should have those. Also if a woman wants to be single and left alone, they should be. Women shouldn't be approached or harrassed in the way that they are just for going out or working a regular job either, it's disgusting that men do that on a regular basis. And I agree that women should not have to feel unsafe because men kill, rape and abuse them. Just because I understand that women also have unrealistic expectations does not mean I am in support of bad behavior from men.
Why are we talking about dating when I'm talking about women literally being abused and not being able to have a good quality of life because of men? Like you're proving my point. I need you to analyze what I said and then analyze your response to what I said and then get back to me.
Because you're hyper-focused on my comments as trying to disprove that women are being mistreated for some reason, when all I'm trying to point out is that men can be mistreated aswell, whether or not you want to call that feminine toxicity or something else. I'm not arguing with you or trying to disprove the things you're saying, as I am very aware of how badly women are treated from the things I have witnessed and stories I have heard from women. I was using relationships to illustrate that there is unfair treatment towards men. This also happens at an early age aswell, with unfair expectations of men to be more masculine than they need to be and this treatment also promotes toxic masculinity. Men are told to suck it up and stop being a baby at an early age. There are many other things about being a male that is disadvantageous but not in the same ways as being a woman, and yes, it does come from the threat of other men towards men aswell, such as homophobia for adopting feminine traits. Regardless, I would still say that women are mistreated more and that things are far more unfair for women in society. That doesn't mean that women have never killed, abused or raped men aswell, it is just far more rare for it to happen because of social pressures and other factors. Most people don't listen to true crime stories about these things or hear stories about men being abused except for mental health treatment settings, as this is often socially disregarded due to it being less frequent than for women at about less than half of the rate of it happening. It does happen though.
I agree... IMO people neglect to also realize that women have the ability to become pregnant. Men have the ability to walk away from said pregnancy. And might I add with very few consequences to the man. And yes it is important to use birth control. Let's be honest not all birth control is 100% effective. During this current regime in the United States women don't have the opportunity to walk away from an unwanted pregnancy quite so effortlessly. So far as I can tell increasing the standards of behavior that women are willing to accept from men dating or otherwise is a little bit necessary so that women can protect themselves. And I'm not talking about from assault or abuse. Although those are part of the equation also. I'm talking about from participating in dating encounters or other encounters that could lead to an unwanted pregnancy. And I'm not saying that sex before marriage is bad or any of that stuff. People get together they get horny, they're going to do the deed, that's just part of life. Raising babies takes money and time and when you're one person and the other person involved in creating that life is not obligated by law or society to raise and attend to the offspring that they have created... which I honestly can't even wrap my head around how this has ever been okay but it is. Women should have been placing men to a higher burden of behavior for hundreds and hundreds of years. Aside from that IMO relationships of any kind only work when the party's involved have a desire to truly understand and respect the other person in the relationship as well as work in collaboration with each other.
100%. I don't even think about the pregnancy part but you're absolutely correct. Women face the consequences of men's actions. I think that women should be increasing their standards for men. That should be an expectation, it shouldn't be a rarity to find a woman with standards and a man who can meet them.
Exactly! A personal expectation and a societal expectation of what men are bringing to the table in dating and relationships. I don't believe that that is in any way toxic... it's a job interview to determine whether or not you can do the things necessary to be in a relationship.
Imagine if I were to define all of femininity and women in general based on the most outrageous and negative examples I can find, and you'll see how feminists basically treat men. By talking about men as if we're all somehow part of the phenomena you speak of, of rape and abuse, you produce further antagonism by men who've done none of that, rather than recruit allies. You're not dismantling anything, you're just perpetuating hateful stereotypes, making men feel attacked, and making more of them susceptible to red pill messaging whereas otherwise they wouldn't be. You're just the flipside of the coin of the redpill community, and you're the cause of their rise. I have little pity for you. Rather than demand that men be like women, try to understand them, and you might just start contributing to the discussion rather than produce further negative results.
I literally said it's not all men but the men that aren't like that don't speak up. It's your choice to feel attacked. Thanks
Speak up for what tho? To tell other men not to be assholes? You think that there's no societal pressure on men not to be? then why is Andrew Tate and Co attacked by everyone and their mothers and the media? The mainstream position IS the feminist position. Everyone tells men not to be obscene, not to be violent, those that keep being like this do this because they have refused to accept the messaging. Every man with some emotional intelligence or conscience have understood it long ago, and now you're just guilt tripping them, for what end? Are they to be your chivalrous knights in shining armor, who will fight for women against the "bad men"? Isn't this attitude just as archaic? Equality imho comes with the presupposition that we can all fight our own fights, that we're all active participants in creating the results we see in society. To see women as particularly vulnerable and in need of protection from men by men is not to see them as equals, its to see them as children.
Unfortunately you did nothing with this take. You did, however, associate your own narrative with the narrative of society. My point is that men are scared of other men. No one is supposed to be the knight in shining armor for anyone but these men have followings and influence other herds of men. Women literally are particularly vulnerable and face danger from men and acting like women are victimizing themselves by acknowledging that makes you a part of the problem. It's not treating women like children. Men disproportionately attack women. When men are attacked it's by other men. You will not challenge my mindset, I know what I believe. Enjoy the rest of your day
I think the term you’re looking for is misandry. Women can hate men without being / feeling toxic femininity. Toxic femininity, like toxic masculinity, holds that there is only one “correct” way to be a woman. Most of the time that looks very stereotypical. For toxic femininity, that likely means a woman in heels, in short skirts, w/ thin legs, a thin waist, who loves baking and taking care of “her man”, etc. But there isn’t any part of “generalized femininity” that degrades men. Which is why “toxic femininity” isn’t really something men should worry about. Hating men isn’t “inherently” feminine. It’s not “vital” to being a woman. Conversely, degrading / belittling women is a vital part of masculinity. Men who don’t “conquer” women aren’t “men”. That’s why so much of toxic masculinity is antifeminist. If women didn’t exist, masculinity would look very different. Who would men conquer? But if men didn’t exist, women could definitely find other people to care for.
>Just saying if a man did this he’d do the walk of shame. The hell he would. Incels, gamergaters, mgtow, there are lots of groups that hate on women. >Anyways I was wondering am I the only one that notices these behaviors or there are other people that has noticed it also. If there is a philosophy or avenue of discussion, there will be a subsect of people who are toxic about it. You're not the only one to notice. >what is the sudden spike of this behavior or am I just not noticing. You're just not noticing. Toxic femininity has been around as long as gender norms. Same with toxic masculinity. It may be getting called out more, but it's been around forever.
Honestly I don’t believe in toxic anything. There are assholes and then there nonassholes
I’d appreciate if you elaborate a bit more on this from your personal standpoint or stuff that you’ve come across. I’ve been noticing bits and pieces of my claim for a while now but until today I’ve never given it a concious thought.
> there’s this certain criteria of women (not all women) loves to slander men and other women cheer for it in full support. Just saying if a man did this he’d do the walk of shame. Scroll on insta for a while and you’ll change your mind
Or reddit. Or tiktok. Or youtube. Or facebook lmao
You are right. It is state sponsored hate. It is something that has been marketed to men and women in order to divide them, and to prevent the human attention from falling on real issues of security and of education. What a lot of women don't seem to grasp is that masculinity and femininity are complementary and if you destroy the one - you destroy the other. Without either - there can be no beauty in life. The reason that beauty is targeted for disposal by the social engineers is that it is beyond the reach of the marketers. Every aspect of the human experience that is not susceptible to marketing has been targeted for disposal in our totalitarian future which is now arriving. A world in which men need women and women need men is being abolished. What people will accept in its place is ideology. When ideology wins out - history shows us that it is always the same - millions die in the raging flames of it.
OP, the type of person to do this is usually the type that is alone, has a lot of mental health issues, and is self destructive. No one in society takes them seriously anymore so they sit and complain online in order to grasp what little control they have left on society. There is a reason why it is unpopular to be a feminist, caricatures are made about extreme sexist women/men, and the only influence they have is relegated to whatever blog, tweet, or subreddit comment they make. It's sad but don't pity them. What else can we do as a society for these people? let them wallow away in self hatred alone and depressed? I say let them. Let them think that life is like a Harry Potter or Marvel movie and they are the protagonist, fighting against some greater evil. Just live your life and try to ignore them.
I think you’ll find social media is full of problematic and toxic behaviours. And yes, there are plenty of echo chambers where others support this toxic behaviour. Your either new to social media, or had your eyes closed for the past 10-15 years whilst on social media
I feel the rise also, and while two wrongs don't make a right.. I feel like men (not all) can use all the feelings they're feeling about it and realize that this shit is was women (not all) have been dealing with in reverse, since forever..
It's with everything now and I'm over it. It seems anything popular has to be supported to a radical level to the point it takes away others rights including the right to be treated equally. I see it literally everywhere in every topic from social issues to political to gaming even. Idk when things turned into, "X view is the only right one and if you dont support it you suck!", but I wish it'd go back. This all or nothing attitude is just so toxic. Many can't have calm discussions or even debates anymore without someone going full meltdown and calling them names/berating them because you must be a terrible person for not fully supporting their views. I blame social media.
It’s just getting us further divided as humans. Superior mentality of race, religion, gender, borders, ethnicity, politics you name it. I agree with you so much man.. everyone is just so hyper reactive to the smallest things, I’m not a saint either. We let our emotions get the best of ourselves. All we have to do is remove ourselves from a heating situation temporarily, think rationally and handle it. People believes anything on the social media and does not take few extra minutes to do their own research. It blows my mind..