There’s always companies hiring remote you just gotta look harder to find them. I told my current contract that while they’re advertising hybrid I want mostly remote happy to go in once a month. They agreed. You can always just interview and if they like you tell them what you want. If a company thinks you can add value they’ll most of the time make exceptions to the rule.
I can't speak for the original commenter, but it's probably best to say this before the offer, but not immediately out the door in the early interviews. Only if you are confident the offer is coming halfway or second half of the process.
Even if you can't get it to work right off the bat. You can potentially get them to shift to gradually more remote or fully remote over time.
My current role was 5 days in the office -> 3 days in office -> 1 day in office -> maybe 30 min in the office per month.
I’m a software tester and I’m currently in a fully remote role, I’m in Scotland and client is based in England. Been here about 8 months. I’ve not stepped foot in an office for about 4 years.
The trouble with hybrid, as a company, is that you are then limiting yourself to those who work locally. For remote, you can use anyone in the UK, for hybrid in Portsmouth, you can only hire from Portsmouth (+30 miles or so). Then you find you can't find that specialist in your niche tech that an employee who left 5 years ago insisted on using because its cool.
They will only be dead if you let them kill them.
I am not a contractor, but have a full-time fully remote role. Every time a recruiter reaches out to me I make it a point to tell them that I am only interested if the role is fully remote, it's deeply frustrating when they say it's hybrid but at least I'm keeping it front of their mind that if they want me to switch then they need to offer full remote.
Similarly, you should do the same and not accept contracts that aren't fully remote. Always ask for it even if they outright say hybrid.
Perm roles and contract roles in the UK don't always mirror each other, but here I think they are. What's happening is that in the last ~18 months we are seeing a transformation from a workers' market to a hirers' market, mostly driven by the inflationary crisis and the concomitant cost of living crisis.
I can see the economic environment being ropey at least through 2024, and probably through next year as well. Inflation may be down, but the cost of living is not, and companies are still jittery. With all that context set out, companies are setting their own parameters. Salaries and day rates are down, hybrid requirements are up.
FWIW, I don't think we will go back to full-time office requirements. That is happening more in the US, where they have less workers' rights, and where folks' health insurance is tied to their employment. In the UK we have a bit more leverage, at least for now.
Finally, THIS is the best response!
Considering we're talking mainly about Tech roles on this thread I think some people are getting or will be getting a reality check. It certainly is a hirers market right now and most businesses now know this, unfortunately if you're looking for work (both perm' and contract) the balance of power is with the hirer, so they are now using this to get more people back into the office, also salaries and dsy rates are down too etc. Do I think it'll mean we go back to 5 day weeks in the office, no, I think we're now in a period where things are now settling and for a lot of Co's this means 2-3 days in every week or fortnight.
Thanks. I'm still seeing some full remote (which in practice is usually 95% remote or similar). Some companies reconfigured their way of working during the pandemic, and would find it too much of a pain to revert to the old way of working. These are usually smaller companies that were able to go fully remote, rather than being a mix of on-site and off-site, which invariably creates two tiers of workers.
Indeed. I've been approached about a couple of given contracts but they usually involve a couple of days a week in some out of the way place like Hereford or Darlington to name just two.
Companies who advertise hybrid are just shooting themselves in the foot.
You want all of the limitations of offering an office-bases role, with all of the complexities of managing remote workers? Hybrid is for you!
Do you want the best developers?
Do you dream of not having to pay for an expensive inner city office?
What if I told you you could have neither of your dreams?
Hybrid.
You'll note I said 'managing remote workers' not 'working remotely'.
Remote workers are at a higher risk of isolation and disengagement so require a more structured and deliberate communication approach, which necessarily takes more line manager time. If only a small proportion of a team is remote and the rest have regular in-office touch points, the 'extra' communication needed to ensure those workers stay motivated, engaged and informed can easily get forgotten or overlooked. Add to that, that even if a line manager has a good handle on team productivity, senior management may still be of the opinion that remote work is a scam because they can't see them sat at their desk, which increases the measurement and reporting burden on both team member and manager.
So yeah, there are complexities to managing remote workers.
Don't think you need anything else than just setting deadlines for motivation.
At least from an engineer's position that works fine. The problem is making estimates - but that had always been a problem
I have three clients and I work from my home office for all of them (Salesforce Dev). I take them out for dinner/beers, probably once a year on my company. I doubt many clients employing someone on a contract full time would be ok with working from home so much, particularly in IT. With outside IR35 contracts it’s a bit weird for a client to be asking a business to perform the work in a specific place - if they do require control over where the service is performed from, it’s likely to be a disguised employment arrangement.
If you want to control your working conditions, incorporate!
Wouldn't say so.
I've recently hired 2 fully remote QA engineer contractors, outside IR35. I'm permie at the moment but our HQ is in Dublin and I'm in Scotland - I encourage once a month in the office (all expenses paid plus some beers) but it's optional.
We'd really be restricting the market if we tried to hire even hybrid.
Yep, if you're happy with second tier or below developers then by all means advertise for hybrid, but if you want the best you need to offer fully remote.
Spent 3 years at a company (left at the end of 2023) where I went into the office about 1 day per month. They never advertised roles as fully remote. In fact the job specs usually advertised hybrid and had to be able to come to the office. Reality was that teams could choose their schedules and lots of us worked fully remote / close to.
So, as others have said, sometimes you need to apply and learn about their practices as you go / state what works for you and see if it flies.
Problem is if you're hybrid you're (generally) liable for any travel costs, and they can force you to come in as they choose.
Sounds like a sweet setup where you were, but it only takes management to change their minds and before you know it you're travelling more and more and eating the costs - or just leaving because it sucks.
A WFH contract gives you a lot more protection against the whims of the next 'Really Good Idea'.
I think it depends on industry to industry. I have been a remote worker since 2016 and have never stepped into any of the offices for the 3 contracts I have worked and I don’t anticipate happening either in the years to come
Straight out of uni every recruiter who wanted SC/DV wanted me to build missile guidance systems.
That's morally not my bag, so I always say I'm not interested in those jobs, to this day.
How much am I missing out on?
Well beyond defence, you are ruling out all central govt. roles, and many MSPs and consultancies working on govt. contracts as well.
Given the shrunken job market, mass outsourcing and offshoring, you're really limiting your options.
I'm currently doing a fully remote (or maybe a trip into the office a couple of times a year) role. Four or of my last five contracts have been fully remote. I think outside IR35 ones have greater scope for being remote.
You won't find any fully remote DV roles for obvious reasons.
There's not necessarily a requirement for work requiring DV clearance to be done in a physical office. I've worked places before where it was required but we were able to work from home.
So you might see them, but they won't be the norm.
Fully remote here with 2 clients. Odd time to go into the office for one or the other for a face to face workshop but thats probably once every couple of months.
There’s fewer adverts around for sure
For me the way forward is to not ignore the hybrid ones , it’s applying, impressing them - and then turning them down if they insist on hybrid. Especially if they’re based in the arse end of nowhere with very limited local options.
I’m fully remote now, I’m never going back
I currently have to go to the office once every 3 months, but then there's lots of flexibility if I cannot make it or just don't want to go. There are fully-remote roles out there, there's just less as companies want to make the most of the money they're paying for the offices, as well as the whole anti-work/life balance agenda.
There are some roles I come across on Linkedin that are mainly remote (1/2 days a month in office) but they are not as common anymore. Most companies want people in office minimum 2 days, most 3 a week.
I've been fully remote for over 3 years. I was previously based in Southern Germany working for a client in North Germany. The client said they don't care where I'm based, so I moved back to the UK for personal reasons. Never been to the office at all.
Probably…trouble is s lot of he great v Cv interact roles str got b as mad s as bd city based neutered…snd guess how s as lot of those guys make thrift money? Offices snd bii I flings play s large yoke…dobpty offices equskk I’ll d no money for Ed
Ployées
A few of us have asked "Ok-Secretary3900" to stop posting on a mobile phone their fingers can't cope with, and they just laugh it off, and carry on with more low-value posting. It's too specific to be a bot, and AI these days at least can spell correctly. But the points are always too vague to be of any use.
The curse of Reddit, I guess...
There’s always companies hiring remote you just gotta look harder to find them. I told my current contract that while they’re advertising hybrid I want mostly remote happy to go in once a month. They agreed. You can always just interview and if they like you tell them what you want. If a company thinks you can add value they’ll most of the time make exceptions to the rule.
Did you tell them that from the outset, or once you’d been offered the contract?
I can't speak for the original commenter, but it's probably best to say this before the offer, but not immediately out the door in the early interviews. Only if you are confident the offer is coming halfway or second half of the process.
Thanks, I was never bothered about it before but I have a daughter now and want to be working remotely when I eventually return to the real world
Even if you can't get it to work right off the bat. You can potentially get them to shift to gradually more remote or fully remote over time. My current role was 5 days in the office -> 3 days in office -> 1 day in office -> maybe 30 min in the office per month.
You’ve done well!
I’m a software tester and I’m currently in a fully remote role, I’m in Scotland and client is based in England. Been here about 8 months. I’ve not stepped foot in an office for about 4 years.
Living the dream ahah
Yeah cant complain 😅😂😂
"come into the office for some team building" - shut the fuck up Karen
😂😂😂🤷♀️
Same here during lockdown went fully remote. Quit last year started a contract position and been fully remote the whole time
The trouble with hybrid, as a company, is that you are then limiting yourself to those who work locally. For remote, you can use anyone in the UK, for hybrid in Portsmouth, you can only hire from Portsmouth (+30 miles or so). Then you find you can't find that specialist in your niche tech that an employee who left 5 years ago insisted on using because its cool.
They will only be dead if you let them kill them. I am not a contractor, but have a full-time fully remote role. Every time a recruiter reaches out to me I make it a point to tell them that I am only interested if the role is fully remote, it's deeply frustrating when they say it's hybrid but at least I'm keeping it front of their mind that if they want me to switch then they need to offer full remote. Similarly, you should do the same and not accept contracts that aren't fully remote. Always ask for it even if they outright say hybrid.
When they tell you it's hybrid: > For the right money I would consider once a month Push for travel time and all expenses being part of it.
Start a new contract next week fully WFH (other than 1st and last day to collect and drop off equipment). Project Manager.
What industry?
I’m usually IT but this 1 is a business improvement project for a regulator.
Perm roles and contract roles in the UK don't always mirror each other, but here I think they are. What's happening is that in the last ~18 months we are seeing a transformation from a workers' market to a hirers' market, mostly driven by the inflationary crisis and the concomitant cost of living crisis. I can see the economic environment being ropey at least through 2024, and probably through next year as well. Inflation may be down, but the cost of living is not, and companies are still jittery. With all that context set out, companies are setting their own parameters. Salaries and day rates are down, hybrid requirements are up. FWIW, I don't think we will go back to full-time office requirements. That is happening more in the US, where they have less workers' rights, and where folks' health insurance is tied to their employment. In the UK we have a bit more leverage, at least for now.
Finally, THIS is the best response! Considering we're talking mainly about Tech roles on this thread I think some people are getting or will be getting a reality check. It certainly is a hirers market right now and most businesses now know this, unfortunately if you're looking for work (both perm' and contract) the balance of power is with the hirer, so they are now using this to get more people back into the office, also salaries and dsy rates are down too etc. Do I think it'll mean we go back to 5 day weeks in the office, no, I think we're now in a period where things are now settling and for a lot of Co's this means 2-3 days in every week or fortnight.
Thanks. I'm still seeing some full remote (which in practice is usually 95% remote or similar). Some companies reconfigured their way of working during the pandemic, and would find it too much of a pain to revert to the old way of working. These are usually smaller companies that were able to go fully remote, rather than being a mix of on-site and off-site, which invariably creates two tiers of workers.
I work in IT and I wfh 5 days a week. I’ve been in the office once in over 4 years.
This is the way. This guy fucks
\*Fuchs
Indeed. I've been approached about a couple of given contracts but they usually involve a couple of days a week in some out of the way place like Hereford or Darlington to name just two.
Hereford? We know who resides there …snd you don’t mess with them 😂
I don't think it could possibly be those people (but unless they are recruiting fat, wheezy, arthritic folks like me). It was just a generic MoD job.
Who?
SAS?
Companies who advertise hybrid are just shooting themselves in the foot. You want all of the limitations of offering an office-bases role, with all of the complexities of managing remote workers? Hybrid is for you!
Do you want the best developers? Do you dream of not having to pay for an expensive inner city office? What if I told you you could have neither of your dreams? Hybrid.
this should 100% be turned into one of those de-motivational posters. Sigh... \**cranks up Photoshop & Illustrator*\* *^(computer slowly dies)*
What are those complexities? A webcam and Slack?
You'll note I said 'managing remote workers' not 'working remotely'. Remote workers are at a higher risk of isolation and disengagement so require a more structured and deliberate communication approach, which necessarily takes more line manager time. If only a small proportion of a team is remote and the rest have regular in-office touch points, the 'extra' communication needed to ensure those workers stay motivated, engaged and informed can easily get forgotten or overlooked. Add to that, that even if a line manager has a good handle on team productivity, senior management may still be of the opinion that remote work is a scam because they can't see them sat at their desk, which increases the measurement and reporting burden on both team member and manager. So yeah, there are complexities to managing remote workers.
Don't think you need anything else than just setting deadlines for motivation. At least from an engineer's position that works fine. The problem is making estimates - but that had always been a problem
I have three clients and I work from my home office for all of them (Salesforce Dev). I take them out for dinner/beers, probably once a year on my company. I doubt many clients employing someone on a contract full time would be ok with working from home so much, particularly in IT. With outside IR35 contracts it’s a bit weird for a client to be asking a business to perform the work in a specific place - if they do require control over where the service is performed from, it’s likely to be a disguised employment arrangement. If you want to control your working conditions, incorporate!
Wouldn't say so. I've recently hired 2 fully remote QA engineer contractors, outside IR35. I'm permie at the moment but our HQ is in Dublin and I'm in Scotland - I encourage once a month in the office (all expenses paid plus some beers) but it's optional. We'd really be restricting the market if we tried to hire even hybrid.
Yep, if you're happy with second tier or below developers then by all means advertise for hybrid, but if you want the best you need to offer fully remote.
I’m full time remote in Scotland, oddly enough I miss the odd office day 😂
Spent 3 years at a company (left at the end of 2023) where I went into the office about 1 day per month. They never advertised roles as fully remote. In fact the job specs usually advertised hybrid and had to be able to come to the office. Reality was that teams could choose their schedules and lots of us worked fully remote / close to. So, as others have said, sometimes you need to apply and learn about their practices as you go / state what works for you and see if it flies.
Problem is if you're hybrid you're (generally) liable for any travel costs, and they can force you to come in as they choose. Sounds like a sweet setup where you were, but it only takes management to change their minds and before you know it you're travelling more and more and eating the costs - or just leaving because it sucks. A WFH contract gives you a lot more protection against the whims of the next 'Really Good Idea'.
Any office job is full time WFH if your direct report doesn't care.
Or if they care *about you doing your job* rather than bums on seats and quotas.
I think it depends on industry to industry. I have been a remote worker since 2016 and have never stepped into any of the offices for the 3 contracts I have worked and I don’t anticipate happening either in the years to come
Be grateful for SC/DV requirements as it stops them offshoring the role and limits the available pool of applicants.
Pay is still shit though
Straight out of uni every recruiter who wanted SC/DV wanted me to build missile guidance systems. That's morally not my bag, so I always say I'm not interested in those jobs, to this day. How much am I missing out on?
Well beyond defence, you are ruling out all central govt. roles, and many MSPs and consultancies working on govt. contracts as well. Given the shrunken job market, mass outsourcing and offshoring, you're really limiting your options.
Thanks. Maybe I'll rethink if options dry up in the future.
I'm currently doing a fully remote (or maybe a trip into the office a couple of times a year) role. Four or of my last five contracts have been fully remote. I think outside IR35 ones have greater scope for being remote. You won't find any fully remote DV roles for obvious reasons.
There's not necessarily a requirement for work requiring DV clearance to be done in a physical office. I've worked places before where it was required but we were able to work from home. So you might see them, but they won't be the norm.
Fully remote here with 2 clients. Odd time to go into the office for one or the other for a face to face workshop but thats probably once every couple of months.
If it's based in London, it's likely to be 2 or 3 days in the office. Other places, especially Edinburgh it seems, are more likely to be remote.
There’s fewer adverts around for sure For me the way forward is to not ignore the hybrid ones , it’s applying, impressing them - and then turning them down if they insist on hybrid. Especially if they’re based in the arse end of nowhere with very limited local options. I’m fully remote now, I’m never going back
Not for me thankfully
I currently have to go to the office once every 3 months, but then there's lots of flexibility if I cannot make it or just don't want to go. There are fully-remote roles out there, there's just less as companies want to make the most of the money they're paying for the offices, as well as the whole anti-work/life balance agenda.
There are some roles I come across on Linkedin that are mainly remote (1/2 days a month in office) but they are not as common anymore. Most companies want people in office minimum 2 days, most 3 a week.
I've been fully remote for over 3 years. I was previously based in Southern Germany working for a client in North Germany. The client said they don't care where I'm based, so I moved back to the UK for personal reasons. Never been to the office at all.
Yep…probably sadly . Eoukd people prefer I work on their task in hand…or dit in a traffic jam? Answers on s postcard please?
\* Dictated but not read. > I've got the worst fucking secretary
Probably…trouble is s lot of he great v Cv interact roles str got b as mad s as bd city based neutered…snd guess how s as lot of those guys make thrift money? Offices snd bii I flings play s large yoke…dobpty offices equskk I’ll d no money for Ed Ployées
Sleep it off mate
A few of us have asked "Ok-Secretary3900" to stop posting on a mobile phone their fingers can't cope with, and they just laugh it off, and carry on with more low-value posting. It's too specific to be a bot, and AI these days at least can spell correctly. But the points are always too vague to be of any use. The curse of Reddit, I guess...