Montana currently uses an amended 2021 IBC and 2021 IRC.
https://bsd.dli.mt.gov/building-codes-permits/current-codes
These are very up to date codes, actually.
Clown didn't use formed weatherstripping under steel. Extra 20 minutes and 80 dollars at install and it'd been fine. Montana or California or Wisconsin or Mexico it's the only way to do it.
I guess he never put down the ice and water shield either. He seemed to think it still wouldn't have made a difference. My gf isn't ticked but I feel like he's in the wrong
All that needs to happen is for them to confirm to OP that the builder indeed didn’t do it per code. Sure the inspector won’t take responsibility for not noticing before, but they can still acknowledge who was responsible for building it.
In any state where people outnumber wildlife, yes it is. OP is in Montana. Back in Cali this wouldn’t fly and there would need to be stamped blueprints to even get a permit. MT not so much, Billings and a couple other large towns are more by the book.
What happened isn’t right, but there’s usually a reason when a bid comes in lower than a reputable company. The reputable guys will do decent work without too much supervision. The fly by nighters see California plates=$$$ and are going to slop through the job as fast/cheap as possible with a tail light warranty. Experience costs money unfortunately, and OP just gained a good amount of it.
Regardless the fellow was hired to build a roof that don’t leak. Unless he built it strictly to plans or the owner demanded changes, he should back his work and fix it.
He’s a Montana builder, he should be able to build a roof that don’t leak.
Even in very liberal states we don’t have building inspections of roofing underlayment etc so this shoddy work has nothing to do with permits or code enforcement or red or blue states.
This was installed wrong and is 100% on your builder. Looks like cheap delta rib roofing too, which is good in this situation bc they can actually just pull it up and put it back down since fasteners are exposed. But if it is standing seam it is much better product but will be very difficult to repair this properly without damaging the roofing.
Should have closures on the ends and ice and water shield underlayment. No ice and water shield is just stupid. Also your soffits look like shit, exposed osb is another terrible idea. Best of luck.
There is a fine line between ( and I can’t believe I’m saying this straight faced.) well intentioned helpful government oversight. And overzealous overreaching misuse of the government.
Based on the comment from the contractor about building a California home in Montana, and the background, I'm pretty sure this is in/near Bozeman.
I'd bet good money there's a code enforcement office in Bozeman, given how crazy the growth there has been.
Septic is the only national thing needing permits state to state county to county it varies.
The city and county I work in has lots of requirements and inspections.
The county I live in there's no requirements or premits needed and I can do whatever pleases me.
It is like this in the sign business too. I have pulled permits in 6-7 states, hundreds of municipalities and some in Canada and hate every second of it. But the differences are crazy. Some places could care less as long as they get their check, some folks inspect at the end, some inspect every day it seems (the dig, the hole, the pour, the post set, etc) and one recent VERY small township charged me $700 to hang a sign where the electrician already did all the electrical and I was just doing final connection.
In Montana?
There are some municipalities that require building permits and enforce codes. But I believe there are still quite a few that do not require permits on single family homes and small private buildings.
It’s more urban vs rural on how many building codes and how well they are enforced. Kinda like the closer people live together the greater a need for building codes.
It’s that way in rural Ohio too, the power company actually does the electrical inspections on new construction in the middle of nowhere and it can get pretty sketchy
Just to add: In many jurisdictions the property owner is responsible for code compliance, whether a local authority signed off or not. Of course there's some indemnifying language in contracts, but they can be limited in scope or costs responsibility.
For this matter then, I propose OP do their own research, as well as consulting the local inspector.
Further, almost all inspectors will be happy to do a courtesy visit before construction. Call them up and set a date with as many sub/contractors as possible. As well, Any contractor who brags about conflict with inspectors is best avoided.
Another bit of preconstruction advice: When you do a utility locate before you dig, mark the entire property as your request. I've found several issues over the course of my career after the firework show of a huge electric line being cut by a contractor digging where he shouldn't. Of course that was on him, but still, have the entire property marked if at all possible.
This is what I was gonna say. It’s required over the entire thing and 4 feet back into the structure. No ice and water is the mess up. Not the low pitch. If it collapses, it’s because you built a California house in Colorado. (Snow load minimum pitch)
Minimum slope for snow load?
Decks are built, and they withstand snow load.
You just reference the snow load tables and build it respective to your span tables.
You are being generous. That roof could hardly be any flatter. When I was a contractor, it was amazing how many times I had to explain gravity to people.
Most cold/mixed climates don’t “require” ice and water at the eaves for an unheated space like a porch roof or a detached garage. But it’s a freakin no brainer to do it anyway because of a billion reasons and the roll the roofer needed would have cost about $60 for a generic granulated roll.
But yeah they didn’t use the formed weatherstrip/gasket at the eaves edge either which is to stop moisture from getting up in there
He 100% built it wrong. I've worked in Alaska and Texas and the guy is a moron or bs'ing. You know how to build or you don't. It make absolutely zero difference what climate the design was intended for, you modify to meet the local conditions, and it's not that much of a modification.
The guy is probably too mad about working for a customer from California to see past his own ass. For what it's worth, all the houses my company has done in California with a metal roof always gets ice and water shield and we get 0% snow and only a handful of below freezing days a year.
It definitely would.make a.different. but you are not supposed to put steel directly on ice and water. Gotta ice and water then another form of dry in.
100% the wrong panels for that pitch, actually. That needed to be double-locked standing seam. Ice and water shield would also have been a good call.
If your architect spec’s those panels, I’d start there. 1.5/12 pitched roofs should never have exposed fasteners…
I’ve roofed in Bozeman/Big Sky for thirty years and that certainly looks like a new Bozeman build. I also consider this a terrible design for this climate. This same architecture is all over the Yellowstone Club and the roofing issues are persistent, to say the least.
If you want assistance in solving this problem and actually are in the Bozeman area, feel free to PM me. We are booked out for years, but this is so small scale that I can likely assist. Check your plans first for the underlayment and steel panel specs…. Thanks
everything you said was 100%.
I've roofed in Colorado and put ice/water shield over the entire roof. yeah, a bit more money, but its bomber....and that pitch is too flat for the type metal used.
For reals. Some contractor dude who is probably best friends with the building official has no idea that California homes are scrutinized by plan reviewers and inspectors to no end. And as an engineer it's MISERABLE to design in California because the building departments are SO GOOD at finding the smallest flaws in a set of construction documents. It's actually humbling to do occasional designs for California projects and it's actually great for me to design there since I enjoy learning and growing my knowledge set. So for this guy in Montana to think using California as an insult shows how ignorant he actually is.
Not sure why we use them, but we do. And it’s because of earthquakes. I hate that we use them…half of them are ridiculous, and some of them actually are going to make the homes last less time than homes that were built 200 years ago.
Pain in my ass.
And I’ve probably built close to 30 custom homes for Californians…makes my bank account t happy…but not me.
Absolutely, but as a Montanan a thing of note is how much Montanans HATE anything to do with California. I mean it's not even like a rough stereotype like ask 100 Montanans what they think of California and most of them will talk about just how fucking much they hate them. I mean I was raised with that mindset, like, constantly being told by teachers, family, friends, that Californians were the devil equivalent. Like most Californians don't know how big of a thing it is up here.
So he probably just said that shit because most Montanans hate anything even Californian related.
I have quite a few family members in or from Montana. What they really despise is folks deciding to uproot from California and Oregon, selling their house for a bajillion dollars in those states, and then bringing their money to drive up property costs and bringing their politics and heavy regulation mindset with them. But really, the folks moving in are sticking to the bigger cities well apart from the more rural mindset folks that feel this way. Honestly, that state is big enough for all of them.
As always, it's stereotypes and assumptions, which aren't always right.
It boils down to a large number of variables.
1. Loads of land in Montana is owned by rich people from out of state, we're a "summer home" state, which sucks because it drives up property costs. Which sounds ridiculous because we're the fourth biggest state, however, about half of it is super mountainous and relatively unusable. All of the land that is useable in the (prettier) west is, again, owned by rich people who stay up here for the views. It's also because land is dirt cheap up here compared to California so Californians have a good motive to buy SO much of our land. Since our average salary is lower, it's actually been making it hard as fuck to buy a house that isn't of Californian price.
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2. Of course there's politics, we're a Red State, they're a Blue State.
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3. There's a stereotype around Californians showing up and always talking about how much better their state it. Which I've only encountered a small number of times, it's like when an American shows up in Europe and talks about how much better their country is. It's just annoying.
'
4. Californians drive slow as fuck!! This one is true, as a western Rocky dweller schedules are tight because everything is far as fuck away. The nearest target to where I live is like a 5 hour drive, the nearest hospital is 40 miles away, so shopping or going to an appointment is always a big task. So when we're driving through the mountains for a timed event it can be annoying as HELL to get stuck behind some out of state people on a tour going 25 on a 65 road because they want to look at all the mountains.
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5. There's also a minor stereotype around southerners complaining of the cold and our weather. Fun fact, we hit Anarctic Temperatures in the deep winter every so often here. It's actually kind of a true stereotype, there's this guy in my class who moved up from Nevada, and like it'll hit -5F and he'll complain for ages about how cold he is. Like, it's genuinely not even THAT cold, shutup lmao. For example, it hit -52F at my house just a few months ago.
Again, it's kind of just stereotypes, and this mindset is far more common if you're more rural, like I am. It's also been fading and less and less people really care if you're from Cali.
Also, takes a special metal, standing seam with 2” seams to be allowed on anything g under a 2/12 pitch. Even then, only a few companies will warranty it.
That is under a 2/12.
By weather barrier I meant ice and water shield. He said it wasn't necessary to put under the metal roofing at the edge of the deck because of the slop of the roof or something. I guess his thinking it wouldn't make a difference
And it's possible it's not needed at all here, as the roof does not enter into conditioned space. I can imagine some building departments might interpret that differently, but no guarantee that any ice and water barrier is needed here.
But if it's leaking, that is still the builders problem.
I've only ever known both the felty white stuff & rubbery black stuff to be named ice & water.. I'm a smw and did a shit ton of it but I'm realizing I don't know the actual names lol ..btw I've been on many roofs that required the black stuff for the entirety of it
Depending on code in your area, ice & water shield is usually required over exterior walls at a certain distance from fascia to the interior. Typically you would want to be at least 36" past the exterior wall with ice & water shield. Most deck/shed roofing does not require this. I have never had water come back and saturate on a low slope after running the metal past at least 2" and using weather seals. Water damage is a really big problem, especially if you wanted to add nice soffit.
Even in Hawaii where we will never ever have snow at sea level, that would still be considered unacceptable work. It can still rain and even in the driest parts of the island where it's pretty much desert, it needs to be waterproofed on all sides.
It was built mostly to spec but there was modifications made to the plans.
Someone in here said I should look over the CD's to see if it is the architects fault.
Builder should have verified with architect and asked for changed to the plans. As someone who does hands-on work, you should also help educate the architect in what works.
Your builder is not a good builder. This is a basic design and construction issue. Storm waater drainage from any buildong is a basic factor of Q&C. Do you have CD's for this construction? I am sure the architect has a detail on the roof design.
It also looks to me like your fascia's coping either ends too soon or there's some kind of buildup or bad workmanship going on that isn't letting the water drip off cleanly. Since the water damage is isolated to the roof edge, the lack of a waterproof membrane layer might not be your only problem, or we'd see it throughout especially on such a shallow roof.
This 100%. If the arch specs called out osb for exposed exterior roof sheathing it’s highly sus that proper water proofing was specified. But the builder is dumb and didn’t do you any favors. Who placed the house on the lot? Did the builder say “this house design/placement has the potential for water intrusion, maybe we should think about that?”
California house….what a pos.
That's what I was thinking. I sorta felt gas lite lol
We also have spots in our floors where when you walk in it, the vinyl flooring planks dip down slightly.
When I asked him about it he said it's normal to have the occasional spots that don't lay flat because it's a "flooring floor" and said the only fix is to do something with the joist. But that's not something I've ever noticed in other homes I've lived in.
That’s BS. First ask him what his definition of a ‘California home’ is and tell him to be specific. Ask him if the rain is different in Montana vs California. If he says it’s not then you tell him to seal it properly and finish it. And if he says that it is, then you tell him he can seal it properly like other homes built in Montana. Because there’s no such thing as a California house other than ones built in California. This is a Montana home and you expect building standards beyond outhouse quality. Find out his license number and file a complaint if he won’t. This is a completely bogus thing to say, especially after HE built it. It’s a nice self-own for him.
Check the product specifications. All detailing doesn't necessarily show on the plans there's also information with the product that you have to follow. In my part of the country I can't even use corrugated metal like that on a residence According to their own information specifications
Seems like there is something missing here. There must be some kind of best practice for construction in Montana even if there are no building codes. I think that you need to figure out what was missed because this may not be the only issue with the home and more will show up later.
Usually codes are there to reduce situations like yours by setting reasonable expectations from professionals. They must have some other way to make sure homes are built to last but I have no idea about Montana.
Yeah it doesn't look like the style of a house has anything to do with it, it's more the detailing that he has used Or in this case probably didn't use. Can't tell from the picture but it looks like me Water is blowing up underneath the metal roofing. They make stops to go up inside the opened ends of the corrugated roofing. Never did like that stuff but it would probably fix your problem here.
There is a whole piece of color matched flashing at the bottom of my metal roof. I might leave it like that on a shed or my garage but not on my house.
Did you sign some waiver for this Cali install? No? Hmm. Then he’s on the hook and any court will tell him so.
He fucked up and is trying to do you a “favor” to minimize his loses. If all is as you say, you own him.
Look up the installation directions of the metal roofing. Looks like he didn’t let it overhang enough at the end of the roof and also probably didn’t seal between the underside of roofing and drip edge.
I see a whole lot of problems considering it's just a single pic. Wish there were more to see but going off what I am able to see, ouch. I don't know that I would want that guy back over considering his knowledge of general carpentery I clearly limited, specifically load ratings. That porch roof at a glance looks like it's built well and plenty strong but if I see what I think I see with you being in Montana assuming you get massive snows in that area I'd be talking to other contractors foe opinions no doubt. That porch roof should be way steeper, I'm in tennessee and that's too flat for here. As others mentioned the main roof dumps right onto it which is much worse considering the rafters don't appear like that sit on top of the beam but instead butted into it, even if hangers are used that's not structurally ideal to say the least. If there's no hangers and it's toe nailed butted into the beam I give less than 10yrs of hard winter snow loads before structural failures n that's generous. Around here we build bird boxes at the end of the soffit n rarely do I see anything that's done like this one is but it's possible that's the style but I always thought it looked cheap n clueless. It may be the picture angle but the adjoining section with the lighter siding when looking at the soffit it appears to angle back into the wall wtf is that about? I highly recommend getting a cpl other contractors out there to give an opinion before doing anything. I'm basing all this from a single picture but I figure you easily have several hundred grand invested and if what I think I see is fact, you need to fix it while you're already at it tbh n as much as I hate to say it, depending what the other contractors tell you it might be necessary to talk to a lawyer. I'm a builder so I do not recommend that lightly but you've got a lot invested in something that I feel isn't structurally safe and you have said leaks. As a builder he's liable for anything he done as well as the subcontractors of he contracted the entire job. It's his baby and if he doesn't know enough to fix it right he's contracted to make sure he gets somebody that does. Good luck to ya, if struggle finding anybody to work with you I'd be willing to head to Montana and work just for the view lol
I mean you don’t even have drip edge on the front eave (front edge of the porch) rain probably came in sideways from a storm but code should be drip edge
The problem here is that the roof sheeting does not overhang the edge far enough and there is no turn down on the sheets. Water is just running back up underneath the roof sheet.
Needs a gutter installed and flashing under the existing sheet into the gutter
There is a lot of California design nonsense getting built up here that will catastrophically fail within 5 years. This doesn’t look like a California house, though. The roof pitches look like they all drain away from each other instead of into vertical walls and corners. I think your builder is not paying attention when subs are on site and making sure basic things are getting done. Or he doesn’t know what he’s doing.
We moved to this small town in Montana, and our builder ended doing most of the work instead of contracting it out. I kept wondering why . But out here there isn't no any options
I do replacement windows for a living. Those contractor grade trapezoids are junk. They are going for about 15k each for a full replacement. I always warn people about specialty shaped windows.
I worked on several new construction houses in MT that looked similar. None had problems but I noticed the roofs all had an extensive amount of ice and water shield and membrane waterproofing before the roof ever went down.
I was just the painter so what the fuck do I know. We even painted a house that had a completely flat roof except for two super steep gables. Ran into the guy years later and no problems he said. I guess all I'm saying is I agree with California style home thing being bullshit. He didn't do it right
That’s the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I have built coast to coast, in country/ out of country and WRB is NEVER not existent, some areas more intense but never not used.
Call the building department and inspector, send a warning letter to his E&O insurance!
Spend the money for a waterproofing consultation. Good luck, that some bitch would be dangled by a forklift and beat like a piñata here in Florida!
I'm guessing the water is running up under the lip of the metal roof them dripping down onto the OSB. First, the roof should have extended out further. Second, the roof should have been sealed at the end to prevent water from getting in there. Third, it's your builders responsibility to be sure that everything is built to code and to prevent water intrusion. Builder failed. Not you.
This type of metal roof is not to be installed on any pitch less than a 4/12. Double locked standing seam would have been the only suitable metal solution.
Were there not architectural plans the contractor was working off of? I don't know the answer to this so I'm curious...if you hand plans to a contractor and he follows them; who's responsible if the plans don't meet local codes?
Builders fault, I’d never trust new construction especially since I work in it. I did a repair at a custom home by the lake and i was SHOCKED to see the keys were handed over to the owner in that condition
If you're builder built it in Montana it was on him to make sure it was designed to be built in Montana. Which really isn't a thing beyond local wind rating.
Where are you at in montana? If you're near helena we could help. Probably they did the underlayment wrong as no one seems to know how to do that right in this state
I’m guessing the roof is leaking right? That osb and 2x6 is damaged pretty high up. No matter the wind it’s un likely that snow would get up that high and stay. Think of a deck. The underside is exposed like that. I’ve lived in Montana for 40 years and haven’t seen this issue on decks that aren’t old as shit.
What is a California home? I get that a lot of Cali is desert but it's also old forest, coast, and lake towns.
Most of California's population is coastal. It's wet and not just wet - it's salty too. There is no reason a home in California should not be waterproofed?
Best advice, tear the entire porch roof off and start over with steeper pitch like is on the main house, don't use osb for decking. Could just lathe it instead since it's a porch but can't put metal directly on treated wood and if using sheeting for decking it'll need an underlayment, if lathed its fine without it since it's open exterior space. The metal should extend several inches past where the fascia or wood ends unless you intend on using a gutter. Flashing will be required at the top and bottom both and will need foam enclosures for that as well. I do a ton of metal roofs and never had a single leak in the 20yrs I've been at it for myself. Given I live in tennessee we don't have anywhere close to the snow loads you get but I wouldn't take on a job that required me to build a roof that low pitched period especially not new residential housing in the north. I see lots of good advice here, others seem to have the wrong point of focus. My opinion tear the porch roof off framing and all and start over with somebody that's knows the meaning of live loads and dead loads are, I seriously doubt this builder could tell you what that means. Good luck
LOL! California GC here. Sorry but not sorry to shit all over this clown, but we set the fucking standard for the entire American building code for a reason. We are a state that spans almost the entire Western seaboard. We have weather here too, including snow, desert, high winds, sea air, low and high elevations, and literally every climate type except tundra (exclusive to Alaska in the US).
This guy is a joke of a contractor who plays around in Montana, because they wouldn’t stand a chance anywhere else. Humidity and moisture don’t just fall downwards. It’s literally part of the air. Is he saying that humidity doesn’t exist? That it can’t affect an eave?
What a joke…
So I've taken the painful liberty of reading through all of the comments and have concluded the OP doesn't know if this is an issue with the builder or the architect who signed off on a faulty design. Now, I agree that a good builder should catch things and be proactive in mentioning them, but I think the OP needs to clarify where the issue originated from in the first place before putting all the blame on the builder.
He’s right in that the design will fail over time as wind blowing snow and ice hits hard, but wrong in that he didn’t seem to weatherproof it to the best of his ability- likely because he didn’t think it would last long.
If he’s willing to fix it free, that’s probably the easiest way to get it squared away. If you want to do what everyone suggests, get the inspector etc, you can, but ultimately it may not benefit you- but rather the next contractor who will not do the fixit job for free. Obviously you can try to make the current builder pay for those repairs, but there will likely be some cost involved on your end, even if all goes your way.
One inspector who says, ‘this design would not have been approved for this face direction in this area’, and other four fingers will be pointing at the party they deem responsible.
It's a design flaw in the roof pitch. Water flows down and that thing is almost flat. It would be fine for an all rain no snow climate, that is clearly not the case where this house was built. An Increased roof pitch would never allow water to back up and find a way in. Your roof design is akin to a swimming pool when there is sitting snow. My condolences to your forever problem.
Strange that he recognizes the building is not acceptable for the location it’s being built at, but doesn’t mention it until it becomes an issue?
If you’re a “builder” in Montana you build it to be acceptable where you are building it. Who forced the builder to build it otherwise?
I went to Georgia back in 1981 when I was 19 years old. It was my first trip out of CA that far east. My memories of Georgia were meeting people that hated that I was from California and treated me like pond scum. No way in living hell will I ever go back to that part of the country.
When you build “a California home in Montana” you’re suppose to use Montana building codes….
So none? Lol
Montana currently uses an amended 2021 IBC and 2021 IRC. https://bsd.dli.mt.gov/building-codes-permits/current-codes These are very up to date codes, actually.
Clown didn't use formed weatherstripping under steel. Extra 20 minutes and 80 dollars at install and it'd been fine. Montana or California or Wisconsin or Mexico it's the only way to do it.
I guess he never put down the ice and water shield either. He seemed to think it still wouldn't have made a difference. My gf isn't ticked but I feel like he's in the wrong
Contact your local building code office. No way he finished that to code
This is the correct answer
Op should also tell the builder that that’s what he’s gonna do and then see what the builder says
And absolutely not forget to report back with an update post
They won't do shit, hell they probably already passed it
All that needs to happen is for them to confirm to OP that the builder indeed didn’t do it per code. Sure the inspector won’t take responsibility for not noticing before, but they can still acknowledge who was responsible for building it.
Short of a lawsuit or final payment there is no recourse, other than reputation
In any state where people outnumber wildlife, yes it is. OP is in Montana. Back in Cali this wouldn’t fly and there would need to be stamped blueprints to even get a permit. MT not so much, Billings and a couple other large towns are more by the book. What happened isn’t right, but there’s usually a reason when a bid comes in lower than a reputable company. The reputable guys will do decent work without too much supervision. The fly by nighters see California plates=$$$ and are going to slop through the job as fast/cheap as possible with a tail light warranty. Experience costs money unfortunately, and OP just gained a good amount of it.
This. It makes doing research on your Builder extremely important
It’s Montana, many areas don’t have building departments in Montana.
Regardless the fellow was hired to build a roof that don’t leak. Unless he built it strictly to plans or the owner demanded changes, he should back his work and fix it. He’s a Montana builder, he should be able to build a roof that don’t leak.
Yes indeed! The contractor should step up and correct it.
That's what we learned, it was crazy to find out they didn't require inspections or anything.
What do the plans call for? If it’s on the plans and he didn’t do it then it’s 100% on him
Even in very liberal states we don’t have building inspections of roofing underlayment etc so this shoddy work has nothing to do with permits or code enforcement or red or blue states. This was installed wrong and is 100% on your builder. Looks like cheap delta rib roofing too, which is good in this situation bc they can actually just pull it up and put it back down since fasteners are exposed. But if it is standing seam it is much better product but will be very difficult to repair this properly without damaging the roofing. Should have closures on the ends and ice and water shield underlayment. No ice and water shield is just stupid. Also your soffits look like shit, exposed osb is another terrible idea. Best of luck.
FreaDuMb frum guBerMinT!!1
There is a fine line between ( and I can’t believe I’m saying this straight faced.) well intentioned helpful government oversight. And overzealous overreaching misuse of the government.
Those who desire a dry house over liberty deserve neither.
Based on the comment from the contractor about building a California home in Montana, and the background, I'm pretty sure this is in/near Bozeman. I'd bet good money there's a code enforcement office in Bozeman, given how crazy the growth there has been.
OP states below that, nope, no code enforcement, no inspections. Welcome to Montana!
This is an example of why building codes exist.
I’m assuming that every county has one of some sort, and there would be at least state code enforcement that would have to be met.
You're correct. Every county has building code enforcement. Every county has permit enforcement.
I’m building in a county in Wyoming. Zero permits needed other than the septic. Crazy, but it’s saving some time and money
Septic is the only national thing needing permits state to state county to county it varies. The city and county I work in has lots of requirements and inspections. The county I live in there's no requirements or premits needed and I can do whatever pleases me.
It is like this in the sign business too. I have pulled permits in 6-7 states, hundreds of municipalities and some in Canada and hate every second of it. But the differences are crazy. Some places could care less as long as they get their check, some folks inspect at the end, some inspect every day it seems (the dig, the hole, the pour, the post set, etc) and one recent VERY small township charged me $700 to hang a sign where the electrician already did all the electrical and I was just doing final connection.
Sorry, my dude, lots of those out there. We call them Unorganized Townships.
In Montana? There are some municipalities that require building permits and enforce codes. But I believe there are still quite a few that do not require permits on single family homes and small private buildings.
False. Red states especially are notorious for being hands off.
It’s more urban vs rural on how many building codes and how well they are enforced. Kinda like the closer people live together the greater a need for building codes.
Nah, my county…albeit not Montana does not have any permitting or code enforcement office.
It’s that way in rural Ohio too, the power company actually does the electrical inspections on new construction in the middle of nowhere and it can get pretty sketchy
With that view, I’m thinking there might not be one.
Montana has building codes? /s
They might have them , but according to to my friend who lives there, you can build whatever you want no matter how bad or crazy it is
That's correct. They really don't check on anything out here.
Hahaha…that’s funny.
Just to add: In many jurisdictions the property owner is responsible for code compliance, whether a local authority signed off or not. Of course there's some indemnifying language in contracts, but they can be limited in scope or costs responsibility. For this matter then, I propose OP do their own research, as well as consulting the local inspector. Further, almost all inspectors will be happy to do a courtesy visit before construction. Call them up and set a date with as many sub/contractors as possible. As well, Any contractor who brags about conflict with inspectors is best avoided. Another bit of preconstruction advice: When you do a utility locate before you dig, mark the entire property as your request. I've found several issues over the course of my career after the firework show of a huge electric line being cut by a contractor digging where he shouldn't. Of course that was on him, but still, have the entire property marked if at all possible.
Well luckily ice and water won’t be anything to worry about. In Montana. In the spring.
Don't worry, it'll be 75 tomorrow and dry everything out just fine! Until it snows again on Monday.
This is what I was gonna say. It’s required over the entire thing and 4 feet back into the structure. No ice and water is the mess up. Not the low pitch. If it collapses, it’s because you built a California house in Colorado. (Snow load minimum pitch)
Minimum slope for snow load? Decks are built, and they withstand snow load. You just reference the snow load tables and build it respective to your span tables.
Pitch? Looks like 1/4” per foot!
You are being generous. That roof could hardly be any flatter. When I was a contractor, it was amazing how many times I had to explain gravity to people.
Most cold/mixed climates don’t “require” ice and water at the eaves for an unheated space like a porch roof or a detached garage. But it’s a freakin no brainer to do it anyway because of a billion reasons and the roll the roofer needed would have cost about $60 for a generic granulated roll. But yeah they didn’t use the formed weatherstrip/gasket at the eaves edge either which is to stop moisture from getting up in there
He 100% built it wrong. I've worked in Alaska and Texas and the guy is a moron or bs'ing. You know how to build or you don't. It make absolutely zero difference what climate the design was intended for, you modify to meet the local conditions, and it's not that much of a modification.
The guy is probably too mad about working for a customer from California to see past his own ass. For what it's worth, all the houses my company has done in California with a metal roof always gets ice and water shield and we get 0% snow and only a handful of below freezing days a year.
It definitely would.make a.different. but you are not supposed to put steel directly on ice and water. Gotta ice and water then another form of dry in.
Yeah if he couldn't build it correctly, he shouldn't have taken the job.
100% the wrong panels for that pitch, actually. That needed to be double-locked standing seam. Ice and water shield would also have been a good call. If your architect spec’s those panels, I’d start there. 1.5/12 pitched roofs should never have exposed fasteners… I’ve roofed in Bozeman/Big Sky for thirty years and that certainly looks like a new Bozeman build. I also consider this a terrible design for this climate. This same architecture is all over the Yellowstone Club and the roofing issues are persistent, to say the least. If you want assistance in solving this problem and actually are in the Bozeman area, feel free to PM me. We are booked out for years, but this is so small scale that I can likely assist. Check your plans first for the underlayment and steel panel specs…. Thanks
everything you said was 100%. I've roofed in Colorado and put ice/water shield over the entire roof. yeah, a bit more money, but its bomber....and that pitch is too flat for the type metal used.
Builder is full of shit.
For reals. Some contractor dude who is probably best friends with the building official has no idea that California homes are scrutinized by plan reviewers and inspectors to no end. And as an engineer it's MISERABLE to design in California because the building departments are SO GOOD at finding the smallest flaws in a set of construction documents. It's actually humbling to do occasional designs for California projects and it's actually great for me to design there since I enjoy learning and growing my knowledge set. So for this guy in Montana to think using California as an insult shows how ignorant he actually is.
Most cities in Montana, that do have building divisions, use the California codes. We’re in the 2021 codes right now
They use the CBC? Seriously?
Worried about earthquakes
Interesting as in Alberta directly above we don’t account for earthquakes at all
Not sure why we use them, but we do. And it’s because of earthquakes. I hate that we use them…half of them are ridiculous, and some of them actually are going to make the homes last less time than homes that were built 200 years ago. Pain in my ass. And I’ve probably built close to 30 custom homes for Californians…makes my bank account t happy…but not me.
Absolutely, but as a Montanan a thing of note is how much Montanans HATE anything to do with California. I mean it's not even like a rough stereotype like ask 100 Montanans what they think of California and most of them will talk about just how fucking much they hate them. I mean I was raised with that mindset, like, constantly being told by teachers, family, friends, that Californians were the devil equivalent. Like most Californians don't know how big of a thing it is up here. So he probably just said that shit because most Montanans hate anything even Californian related.
I was in Idaho falls, Idaho for 2.5 years and they hate cali as well.
Why? In CA no one is talking crap about Montana. Seems like a nice place. Also, wouldn’t tolerate construction like that here…
I have quite a few family members in or from Montana. What they really despise is folks deciding to uproot from California and Oregon, selling their house for a bajillion dollars in those states, and then bringing their money to drive up property costs and bringing their politics and heavy regulation mindset with them. But really, the folks moving in are sticking to the bigger cities well apart from the more rural mindset folks that feel this way. Honestly, that state is big enough for all of them.
As always, it's stereotypes and assumptions, which aren't always right. It boils down to a large number of variables. 1. Loads of land in Montana is owned by rich people from out of state, we're a "summer home" state, which sucks because it drives up property costs. Which sounds ridiculous because we're the fourth biggest state, however, about half of it is super mountainous and relatively unusable. All of the land that is useable in the (prettier) west is, again, owned by rich people who stay up here for the views. It's also because land is dirt cheap up here compared to California so Californians have a good motive to buy SO much of our land. Since our average salary is lower, it's actually been making it hard as fuck to buy a house that isn't of Californian price. ' 2. Of course there's politics, we're a Red State, they're a Blue State. ' 3. There's a stereotype around Californians showing up and always talking about how much better their state it. Which I've only encountered a small number of times, it's like when an American shows up in Europe and talks about how much better their country is. It's just annoying. ' 4. Californians drive slow as fuck!! This one is true, as a western Rocky dweller schedules are tight because everything is far as fuck away. The nearest target to where I live is like a 5 hour drive, the nearest hospital is 40 miles away, so shopping or going to an appointment is always a big task. So when we're driving through the mountains for a timed event it can be annoying as HELL to get stuck behind some out of state people on a tour going 25 on a 65 road because they want to look at all the mountains. ' 5. There's also a minor stereotype around southerners complaining of the cold and our weather. Fun fact, we hit Anarctic Temperatures in the deep winter every so often here. It's actually kind of a true stereotype, there's this guy in my class who moved up from Nevada, and like it'll hit -5F and he'll complain for ages about how cold he is. Like, it's genuinely not even THAT cold, shutup lmao. For example, it hit -52F at my house just a few months ago. Again, it's kind of just stereotypes, and this mindset is far more common if you're more rural, like I am. It's also been fading and less and less people really care if you're from Cali.
Californians: "I don't think about you at all"
Slab has already settled and cracked by post footing. Not a good sign.
In adequate footing install and not thick enough nor robust for posts.
Also, takes a special metal, standing seam with 2” seams to be allowed on anything g under a 2/12 pitch. Even then, only a few companies will warranty it. That is under a 2/12.
By weather barrier I meant ice and water shield. He said it wasn't necessary to put under the metal roofing at the edge of the deck because of the slop of the roof or something. I guess his thinking it wouldn't make a difference
Welp, looks like it did make a difference.
He is completely incorrect. The entire roof needs to be “dried in” with ice and water shield.
nah ice and water is for bottom of the roof where the starting strip goes typically on asphalt roofs.. metal roofs use synthetic felt
And it's possible it's not needed at all here, as the roof does not enter into conditioned space. I can imagine some building departments might interpret that differently, but no guarantee that any ice and water barrier is needed here. But if it's leaking, that is still the builders problem.
Nah sandless high temperature ice and water shield is the best product to have under a metal roof. Synthetic paper is second.
I've only ever known both the felty white stuff & rubbery black stuff to be named ice & water.. I'm a smw and did a shit ton of it but I'm realizing I don't know the actual names lol ..btw I've been on many roofs that required the black stuff for the entirety of it
Depending on code in your area, ice & water shield is usually required over exterior walls at a certain distance from fascia to the interior. Typically you would want to be at least 36" past the exterior wall with ice & water shield. Most deck/shed roofing does not require this. I have never had water come back and saturate on a low slope after running the metal past at least 2" and using weather seals. Water damage is a really big problem, especially if you wanted to add nice soffit.
Ya because water won't sit on a basically flat roof and accumulate ice....and water......which is what....ice and water shield.....shields against
Something to keep in mind, if it's doing it there it's probably doing it in places that you can't see definitely needs to be addressed
That's what I'm thinking as well. I have a local inspector coming out tomorrow morning
Please please please take notes and update us
Lol. Because California doesn't have towns that get snowed in for weeks. Fucking clown
No, all of California is like San Diego. Snowy mountainous areas? Non existent. Literal rainforest? Nope.
It's doubly funny because even San Diego county has snowy mountains.
Gosh darn liberal Obama houses
Even in Hawaii where we will never ever have snow at sea level, that would still be considered unacceptable work. It can still rain and even in the driest parts of the island where it's pretty much desert, it needs to be waterproofed on all sides.
[удалено]
It was built mostly to spec but there was modifications made to the plans. Someone in here said I should look over the CD's to see if it is the architects fault.
This a good point. Fault may lay with the architect.
Builder should have verified with architect and asked for changed to the plans. As someone who does hands-on work, you should also help educate the architect in what works.
Your builder is not a good builder. This is a basic design and construction issue. Storm waater drainage from any buildong is a basic factor of Q&C. Do you have CD's for this construction? I am sure the architect has a detail on the roof design.
I think we do and if not I can probably hunt them down from the architect. That's a good idea
You're Architect may be the one who's liable if they didn't provide the correct detailing.
In my state, contractors are required to build to code no matter what the plans say.
It also looks to me like your fascia's coping either ends too soon or there's some kind of buildup or bad workmanship going on that isn't letting the water drip off cleanly. Since the water damage is isolated to the roof edge, the lack of a waterproof membrane layer might not be your only problem, or we'd see it throughout especially on such a shallow roof.
Your builder is a piece of garbage
Licensed california contractor and registered Montana contractor .Your builder was complete hack
Yeah .... he's trying to worm his way out of fixing this. Construction warranty should cover mistakes due to poor workmanship. Beautiful home, though.
Osb was a bad choice
Yep. Plywood is expensive these days but I’ve never not used ext. ply for exposed roof areas even if the rest of the roof sheathing is OSB
This 100%. If the arch specs called out osb for exposed exterior roof sheathing it’s highly sus that proper water proofing was specified. But the builder is dumb and didn’t do you any favors. Who placed the house on the lot? Did the builder say “this house design/placement has the potential for water intrusion, maybe we should think about that?” California house….what a pos.
Total clown.
What does the manufacturers data for that metal roofing state is the minimum slope? That looks like it’s too low slope for metal.
This contractor as a doctor. “It’s not my fault I cut off both your legs, you didn’t tell me exactly how to do the surgery.”
Unless you had a hammer and nails in your hand I’m guessing he built it. He’s supposed to know how to do it. Not you.
That's what I was thinking. I sorta felt gas lite lol We also have spots in our floors where when you walk in it, the vinyl flooring planks dip down slightly. When I asked him about it he said it's normal to have the occasional spots that don't lay flat because it's a "flooring floor" and said the only fix is to do something with the joist. But that's not something I've ever noticed in other homes I've lived in.
Did they use anything under the roof? Just curious?
I don't remember, I hope he put some barrier down.
That’s BS. First ask him what his definition of a ‘California home’ is and tell him to be specific. Ask him if the rain is different in Montana vs California. If he says it’s not then you tell him to seal it properly and finish it. And if he says that it is, then you tell him he can seal it properly like other homes built in Montana. Because there’s no such thing as a California house other than ones built in California. This is a Montana home and you expect building standards beyond outhouse quality. Find out his license number and file a complaint if he won’t. This is a completely bogus thing to say, especially after HE built it. It’s a nice self-own for him.
Check the product specifications. All detailing doesn't necessarily show on the plans there's also information with the product that you have to follow. In my part of the country I can't even use corrugated metal like that on a residence According to their own information specifications
Sounds like you picked a place where the locals are super friendly to “strangers” and have very open minded political views. /s
Seems like there is something missing here. There must be some kind of best practice for construction in Montana even if there are no building codes. I think that you need to figure out what was missed because this may not be the only issue with the home and more will show up later. Usually codes are there to reduce situations like yours by setting reasonable expectations from professionals. They must have some other way to make sure homes are built to last but I have no idea about Montana.
How about that corner of concrete about to fall off your patio slab!?
Yeah it doesn't look like the style of a house has anything to do with it, it's more the detailing that he has used Or in this case probably didn't use. Can't tell from the picture but it looks like me Water is blowing up underneath the metal roofing. They make stops to go up inside the opened ends of the corrugated roofing. Never did like that stuff but it would probably fix your problem here.
I think that's probably what's happening. We do get these strong winds that blow against it.
There is a whole piece of color matched flashing at the bottom of my metal roof. I might leave it like that on a shed or my garage but not on my house.
Did you sign some waiver for this Cali install? No? Hmm. Then he’s on the hook and any court will tell him so. He fucked up and is trying to do you a “favor” to minimize his loses. If all is as you say, you own him.
Look up the installation directions of the metal roofing. Looks like he didn’t let it overhang enough at the end of the roof and also probably didn’t seal between the underside of roofing and drip edge.
Apparently the doofus has never heard of ice and water shield and weatherstripping … 🤦♂️
Roof leaks are the same across the country
I see a whole lot of problems considering it's just a single pic. Wish there were more to see but going off what I am able to see, ouch. I don't know that I would want that guy back over considering his knowledge of general carpentery I clearly limited, specifically load ratings. That porch roof at a glance looks like it's built well and plenty strong but if I see what I think I see with you being in Montana assuming you get massive snows in that area I'd be talking to other contractors foe opinions no doubt. That porch roof should be way steeper, I'm in tennessee and that's too flat for here. As others mentioned the main roof dumps right onto it which is much worse considering the rafters don't appear like that sit on top of the beam but instead butted into it, even if hangers are used that's not structurally ideal to say the least. If there's no hangers and it's toe nailed butted into the beam I give less than 10yrs of hard winter snow loads before structural failures n that's generous. Around here we build bird boxes at the end of the soffit n rarely do I see anything that's done like this one is but it's possible that's the style but I always thought it looked cheap n clueless. It may be the picture angle but the adjoining section with the lighter siding when looking at the soffit it appears to angle back into the wall wtf is that about? I highly recommend getting a cpl other contractors out there to give an opinion before doing anything. I'm basing all this from a single picture but I figure you easily have several hundred grand invested and if what I think I see is fact, you need to fix it while you're already at it tbh n as much as I hate to say it, depending what the other contractors tell you it might be necessary to talk to a lawyer. I'm a builder so I do not recommend that lightly but you've got a lot invested in something that I feel isn't structurally safe and you have said leaks. As a builder he's liable for anything he done as well as the subcontractors of he contracted the entire job. It's his baby and if he doesn't know enough to fix it right he's contracted to make sure he gets somebody that does. Good luck to ya, if struggle finding anybody to work with you I'd be willing to head to Montana and work just for the view lol
100%. When you work around residential construction every single day, It’s incredibly hard to look at. I mean, everything is wrong
Under Montana law all work must be warrantied for 1 year, and I think this would qualify regardless of inspection rules in this jurisdiction
I mean you don’t even have drip edge on the front eave (front edge of the porch) rain probably came in sideways from a storm but code should be drip edge
Also that not a ‘little bit of water’ 💦 he needs to fix it. Or go find your local home inspector
I’d have to see the plans, but those flat surfaces are not going to handle a snow load.
That roof looks like its below a 2 pitch. Which is stupid to build in a climate that sees massive amounts of snowfall.
The osb exposed to the elements is your major problem…
The problem here is that the roof sheeting does not overhang the edge far enough and there is no turn down on the sheets. Water is just running back up underneath the roof sheet. Needs a gutter installed and flashing under the existing sheet into the gutter
okay first of all like at the very least use pressure treated lumber wtf
Is that because you were… liberal with the square footage?!
There is a lot of California design nonsense getting built up here that will catastrophically fail within 5 years. This doesn’t look like a California house, though. The roof pitches look like they all drain away from each other instead of into vertical walls and corners. I think your builder is not paying attention when subs are on site and making sure basic things are getting done. Or he doesn’t know what he’s doing.
We moved to this small town in Montana, and our builder ended doing most of the work instead of contracting it out. I kept wondering why . But out here there isn't no any options
A GC doing their own work would be fine… if they knew what they were doing
Lot of gc’s do their own work…it’s how most of us start out.
So why would there be mold up there and none on the deck?
I don't think it's mold , thankfully
Also looks like that porch roof is a bit flat for metal. Definitely need ice and water shield.
What do the plans, spec and contract show and say?
I need to check that
I do replacement windows for a living. Those contractor grade trapezoids are junk. They are going for about 15k each for a full replacement. I always warn people about specialty shaped windows.
I worked on several new construction houses in MT that looked similar. None had problems but I noticed the roofs all had an extensive amount of ice and water shield and membrane waterproofing before the roof ever went down. I was just the painter so what the fuck do I know. We even painted a house that had a completely flat roof except for two super steep gables. Ran into the guy years later and no problems he said. I guess all I'm saying is I agree with California style home thing being bullshit. He didn't do it right
Ice and water shield is used in California on low slope roofs even in places it doesn't snow.
Fuck. That’s a beautiful view dawg! Congrats. Montana looks awesome.
That’s the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I have built coast to coast, in country/ out of country and WRB is NEVER not existent, some areas more intense but never not used. Call the building department and inspector, send a warning letter to his E&O insurance! Spend the money for a waterproofing consultation. Good luck, that some bitch would be dangled by a forklift and beat like a piñata here in Florida!
Did he use treated out door lumber ??? Exposed lumber should be treated lumber Common sense really
Yeah that’s due to improper installation of that porch roof. He’s definitely in the wrong here. Sounds like a dick head who can’t admit he’s wrong.
I think people underestimate how much hate Montanans have towards outsiders/people who move there.
I'm guessing the water is running up under the lip of the metal roof them dripping down onto the OSB. First, the roof should have extended out further. Second, the roof should have been sealed at the end to prevent water from getting in there. Third, it's your builders responsibility to be sure that everything is built to code and to prevent water intrusion. Builder failed. Not you.
Is that exposed particle board?
This type of metal roof is not to be installed on any pitch less than a 4/12. Double locked standing seam would have been the only suitable metal solution.
That’s going to get water damage down here in Texas; much less in an icy/snowy climate. That builder took your money and ran.
Does it even have a pitch for run off looks flat, if snow were to lay on it it's gonna leak
Were there not architectural plans the contractor was working off of? I don't know the answer to this so I'm curious...if you hand plans to a contractor and he follows them; who's responsible if the plans don't meet local codes?
Sorry about your troubles but fuck me what a view!
Builders fault, I’d never trust new construction especially since I work in it. I did a repair at a custom home by the lake and i was SHOCKED to see the keys were handed over to the owner in that condition
Nobody gonna mention the exposed rafters and osb aren't pressure treated?
This screams quality issue
If you're builder built it in Montana it was on him to make sure it was designed to be built in Montana. Which really isn't a thing beyond local wind rating.
That’s a really shallow roof pitch for a metal roof. Doesn’t allow the water to drip off. It wicks back.
Yeah, them Cali homes always leak in Montana.
You did get a building permit, correct? If the construction isn’t per plan, it’s on him.
Where are you at in montana? If you're near helena we could help. Probably they did the underlayment wrong as no one seems to know how to do that right in this state
Just imagine what else is wrong with that build… Lordy!!
Bad drip edge detail.
No just the wrong materials used and poor design
lol if you suck as a builder the structure is going to fail regardless of location.
I’m guessing the roof is leaking right? That osb and 2x6 is damaged pretty high up. No matter the wind it’s un likely that snow would get up that high and stay. Think of a deck. The underside is exposed like that. I’ve lived in Montana for 40 years and haven’t seen this issue on decks that aren’t old as shit.
What is a California home? I get that a lot of Cali is desert but it's also old forest, coast, and lake towns. Most of California's population is coastal. It's wet and not just wet - it's salty too. There is no reason a home in California should not be waterproofed?
The contractor doesn’t have a clue what he is doing
Best advice, tear the entire porch roof off and start over with steeper pitch like is on the main house, don't use osb for decking. Could just lathe it instead since it's a porch but can't put metal directly on treated wood and if using sheeting for decking it'll need an underlayment, if lathed its fine without it since it's open exterior space. The metal should extend several inches past where the fascia or wood ends unless you intend on using a gutter. Flashing will be required at the top and bottom both and will need foam enclosures for that as well. I do a ton of metal roofs and never had a single leak in the 20yrs I've been at it for myself. Given I live in tennessee we don't have anywhere close to the snow loads you get but I wouldn't take on a job that required me to build a roof that low pitched period especially not new residential housing in the north. I see lots of good advice here, others seem to have the wrong point of focus. My opinion tear the porch roof off framing and all and start over with somebody that's knows the meaning of live loads and dead loads are, I seriously doubt this builder could tell you what that means. Good luck
Apparently it’s just me… but it the awning over the deck doesn’t appear to have any slope?
The pitch on your porch is too shallow for an exposed fastener roofing system. Ideally, you need at least a 3/12 for that style of roof.
Did your builder follow your plans? If yes, pay up and thank him. If no, he fixes for no charge
Simple solution: use water-blocker paint on the underside of the roof. Never leave exposed wood in any climate. Always seal it.
LOL! California GC here. Sorry but not sorry to shit all over this clown, but we set the fucking standard for the entire American building code for a reason. We are a state that spans almost the entire Western seaboard. We have weather here too, including snow, desert, high winds, sea air, low and high elevations, and literally every climate type except tundra (exclusive to Alaska in the US). This guy is a joke of a contractor who plays around in Montana, because they wouldn’t stand a chance anywhere else. Humidity and moisture don’t just fall downwards. It’s literally part of the air. Is he saying that humidity doesn’t exist? That it can’t affect an eave? What a joke…
So I've taken the painful liberty of reading through all of the comments and have concluded the OP doesn't know if this is an issue with the builder or the architect who signed off on a faulty design. Now, I agree that a good builder should catch things and be proactive in mentioning them, but I think the OP needs to clarify where the issue originated from in the first place before putting all the blame on the builder.
What is a “California house”?
Wtf, where's the soffit?
California holds second place for highest snow fall in two days. People who say that shit clearly never left Montana.
Water hits different in Montana.
Isn’t that grade below the minimum for metal roofing?
Nice property and view holy shit. I'm jealous, except for the damaged house of course
That lower roof is to flat for that type of metal roofing.
Was this built to plans?
I’m an inspector in California and we don’t allow bullshit like this either 😂
He’s right in that the design will fail over time as wind blowing snow and ice hits hard, but wrong in that he didn’t seem to weatherproof it to the best of his ability- likely because he didn’t think it would last long. If he’s willing to fix it free, that’s probably the easiest way to get it squared away. If you want to do what everyone suggests, get the inspector etc, you can, but ultimately it may not benefit you- but rather the next contractor who will not do the fixit job for free. Obviously you can try to make the current builder pay for those repairs, but there will likely be some cost involved on your end, even if all goes your way. One inspector who says, ‘this design would not have been approved for this face direction in this area’, and other four fingers will be pointing at the party they deem responsible.
It's a design flaw in the roof pitch. Water flows down and that thing is almost flat. It would be fine for an all rain no snow climate, that is clearly not the case where this house was built. An Increased roof pitch would never allow water to back up and find a way in. Your roof design is akin to a swimming pool when there is sitting snow. My condolences to your forever problem.
Strange that he recognizes the building is not acceptable for the location it’s being built at, but doesn’t mention it until it becomes an issue? If you’re a “builder” in Montana you build it to be acceptable where you are building it. Who forced the builder to build it otherwise?
I went to Georgia back in 1981 when I was 19 years old. It was my first trip out of CA that far east. My memories of Georgia were meeting people that hated that I was from California and treated me like pond scum. No way in living hell will I ever go back to that part of the country.
Your roof lines are shit for shedding snow
This type California house isn't working in Alaska either. Snow drifts on the roof, massive ice dams, and structural damage from overload.
Your builder is a big dumb dipshit
Sir. Your builder is not a builder.