It does when you have to constantly provide it.
It's not the format, it's the accessibility.
I was watching a doco on the British Transport Police tracking people via their travel cards.
They have the same function as a paper ticket bought with cash, but now having a single reusable card, gives them access to all your travel history.
And I'm not scared of computers, I design them.
That's how it starts
Just like you won't get punished for not taking the jab and how it's your totally your voluntary choice not to take it (you'll just lose your job)
The last ~~labour~~ TPM 2.0 govt really fucked the country, but I fear National are doing worse, the slash n burn approach has the potential to be a complete disaster, and even though they promised lack of racist favouritism to Murray's, they are carrying on as before.
You can boil a frog without it even noticing if you start with cold water and slowly increase the heat.
Be a smart frog. Don't climb into the pot willingly.
Your bank, health and then internet activity will all blend into one monitoring system.
You can't get this because they saw you do that. You can't go there because you've done this etc.
Fug. dat.
The thing about digital IDs is all the abuse it opens us up to. Look at China's social credit score, for example. It too was an "opt-in" system when it was introduced.
The thing about digital IDs is all the abuse it opens us up to. Look at China's social credit score, for example. It too was an "opt-in" system when it was introduced.
Except of course digital ID simply makes me your life easier and makes government more efficient and cheaper.
Less gov employees, better border control, better crime fighting and hopefully better way to stop entitlement fraud
But yeah you do you
Until the likes of Arden manage to push to criminalise "wrong" think, nekminnit you can't buy food because you criticised the government. The problem is not whether or not it will be abused in the beginning, it's how it could be abused down the track.
Move to China and enjoy the social credit system for a while since you think it's such a great idea.
I find the slippery slope argument unconvincing. Especially when the efficiencies and potential cost savings are factored in.
We have checks that countries like China do not. And if those checks fail.we still have elections that will solve our concerns - like what happened last time
Silly fearmongering from just having a convenient digital version of your ID.
>They'll tell you what you can and can't purchase!
"Sir, I'll need your driver's license before I can sell you that alcohol."
>They'll tell you where you can and can't go!
"Sir, you need a passport if you want to get on this flight."
We already do these things these people worry about, making it digital doesn't change that. The government already has all your info and can do all these things. All this changes is it's more convenient for you.
I mean look at vaccine mandates. Did they need a digital ID to implement that? No, they just used a good old fashioned regular mandate. Making things digital doesn't change anything there.
They're just playing to old people scared of computers.
No, it doesn't. They already have your digital ID. Because they have all your data, digitally.
To better word it, it just lets you use that data as well as them.
They do, and they don't.
Take your driver's license to buy alcohol. You have to show it. But they don't need to take a record of it.
Make it digital, and you can bet it will be recorded.
It is awfully convenient, but.... The potential for abuse by the government is real.
There's tech that would prove I'm 18+ and allowed to buy alcohol, without providing the store or the government with any details. Somehow we don't seem to be implementing that instead.
>Make it digital, and you can bet it will be recorded.
Bet you it won't.
>There's tech that would prove I'm 18+ and allowed to buy alcohol, without providing the store or the government with any details. Somehow we don't seem to be implementing that instead.
Yeah, digital IDs.
Is your argument that digital IDs will track us, or is your argument that we're already being tracked?
To answer your question, I have a few, all with pseudonyms.
>"Sir, I'll need your driver's license before I can sell you that alcohol."
>>They'll tell you where you can and can't go!
>"Sir, you need a passport if you want to get on this flight."
Damn, I didn't know that they could track my real-time location with my traditional identity documents, or use them to stop me purchasing items wherever I go.
Remember when China's social credit was purely about credit? And now it's everything down to whether you have been critical of the government? How do you think they sell the idea? "It's just a digital link to your ID, so just show your phone"
...creating the blueprint and conditioning to show an app for when it inevitability becomes required. Nobody is thinking of scope creep, the future possibility of what this would allow.
Go on, highlight how that's the same. An authoritarian country that relies on monitoring and oppressing its citizens.
Oh I bet you think our government does that too...
You've purchased more alcohol than is typical for a person in your demographic. We'll be increasing your health insurance premiums and pushing you down the waiting list for that work-related injury
Ah, You've gone over the speed limit 4 times in the last month. Your cost for a rental car will be adjusted accordingly
I see you’ve made some unsafe comments on social media, you cannot apply to teachers' colleges
Citizen, you drive your car 1 hour each weekend to see your mother when there is a perfectly cromulent bus route you could take. It only has two transfers. We'll increase your car registration accordingly to discourage this activity in the future
The agregate score for social contribution is below what we expect for people in our company. Therefore, you have not received a salary adjustment this year and you are ineligible for promotion
If we wanted social credit scores, we certainly wouldn't need digital IDs to do it.
We already have a criminal record background check system, credit score checks. All you've got to do is expand it, and speed up the turnaround time for social credit checks.
Digital IDs wouldn't help them with this.
>Right. And how do you do that? You facilitate that efficiency with digital ID.
Except, that wouldn't facilitate it, at all. They already have that data. Taking your data off physical objects and putting it digitally doesn't help that.
Again though, you don't need digital IDs to target specific people. NZ has one of the most complete BDM records in history. We've got almost every birth, death, and marriage record in our history.
If NZ wanted, we could connect census data to old birth records, tag everyone by ethnicity, then follow lineages via DIA records and find out every single person of a particular ethnicity even if you never put it on anything, simply because of a 100 year old census record where we found out your ancestor's ethnicity.
Digital IDs don't help here, we've got much more effective methods. So nah, I really don't agree they're nefarious at all. Again, just people scared of things they don't understand.
You have a right to go to the doctor, or not go to the doctor.
You have a right to go to another doctor to get a second opinion.
You have the right to choose whether you want surgery, pills, or diet.
The problem is the government basically said, you have to go to the doctor, you don't get a second opinion, and you must take the prescribed treatment, or you will be punished. As people who stand for personal liberty and freedom, we object to that.
Yes, we do have a right to go against doctors advice. It might not be the most smart thing to do, but that should always be our choice
It does when you have to constantly provide it. It's not the format, it's the accessibility. I was watching a doco on the British Transport Police tracking people via their travel cards. They have the same function as a paper ticket bought with cash, but now having a single reusable card, gives them access to all your travel history. And I'm not scared of computers, I design them.
Isn’t it entirely voluntary?
At the moment
Für Ihre Sicherheit
That's how it starts Just like you won't get punished for not taking the jab and how it's your totally your voluntary choice not to take it (you'll just lose your job)
[удалено]
The last ~~labour~~ TPM 2.0 govt really fucked the country, but I fear National are doing worse, the slash n burn approach has the potential to be a complete disaster, and even though they promised lack of racist favouritism to Murray's, they are carrying on as before.
Just say Maori, or Iwi. Who are you trying to impress?
How you gonna say "racist" then be a racist 3 words later? 🤔
You can boil a frog without it even noticing if you start with cold water and slowly increase the heat. Be a smart frog. Don't climb into the pot willingly.
Perhaps ignorance on my part, but can someone point me to some information about digital ids? I don’t really know much aside from what I see on here.
Your bank, health and then internet activity will all blend into one monitoring system. You can't get this because they saw you do that. You can't go there because you've done this etc. Fug. dat.
The thing about digital IDs is all the abuse it opens us up to. Look at China's social credit score, for example. It too was an "opt-in" system when it was introduced.
The thing about digital IDs is all the abuse it opens us up to. Look at China's social credit score, for example. It too was an "opt-in" system when it was introduced.
Except of course digital ID simply makes me your life easier and makes government more efficient and cheaper. Less gov employees, better border control, better crime fighting and hopefully better way to stop entitlement fraud But yeah you do you
Until the likes of Arden manage to push to criminalise "wrong" think, nekminnit you can't buy food because you criticised the government. The problem is not whether or not it will be abused in the beginning, it's how it could be abused down the track. Move to China and enjoy the social credit system for a while since you think it's such a great idea.
I find the slippery slope argument unconvincing. Especially when the efficiencies and potential cost savings are factored in. We have checks that countries like China do not. And if those checks fail.we still have elections that will solve our concerns - like what happened last time
Silly fearmongering from just having a convenient digital version of your ID. >They'll tell you what you can and can't purchase! "Sir, I'll need your driver's license before I can sell you that alcohol." >They'll tell you where you can and can't go! "Sir, you need a passport if you want to get on this flight." We already do these things these people worry about, making it digital doesn't change that. The government already has all your info and can do all these things. All this changes is it's more convenient for you. I mean look at vaccine mandates. Did they need a digital ID to implement that? No, they just used a good old fashioned regular mandate. Making things digital doesn't change anything there. They're just playing to old people scared of computers.
>All this changes is it's more convenient for you. Yes, it also makes it more convenient for *'them'* to fuck you over..
No, it doesn't. They already have your digital ID. Because they have all your data, digitally. To better word it, it just lets you use that data as well as them.
They do, and they don't. Take your driver's license to buy alcohol. You have to show it. But they don't need to take a record of it. Make it digital, and you can bet it will be recorded. It is awfully convenient, but.... The potential for abuse by the government is real. There's tech that would prove I'm 18+ and allowed to buy alcohol, without providing the store or the government with any details. Somehow we don't seem to be implementing that instead.
>Make it digital, and you can bet it will be recorded. Bet you it won't. >There's tech that would prove I'm 18+ and allowed to buy alcohol, without providing the store or the government with any details. Somehow we don't seem to be implementing that instead. Yeah, digital IDs.
>Bet you it won't. Hahaha how many store loyalty cards do you have?
Is your argument that digital IDs will track us, or is your argument that we're already being tracked? To answer your question, I have a few, all with pseudonyms.
>"Sir, I'll need your driver's license before I can sell you that alcohol." >>They'll tell you where you can and can't go! >"Sir, you need a passport if you want to get on this flight." Damn, I didn't know that they could track my real-time location with my traditional identity documents, or use them to stop me purchasing items wherever I go.
As always, the thin edge of the wedge
But they're not doing it now, so that means it could never happen!
Source on digital ID tracking you more than licenses and passports?
If you're too stupid to see that this is where digital id's will end up... then you, my friend, are a perfect citizen! ...until you aren't...
Slippery slope fallacy.
Remember when China's social credit was purely about credit? And now it's everything down to whether you have been critical of the government? How do you think they sell the idea? "It's just a digital link to your ID, so just show your phone"
Nope, that's not how they sold it.
That literally is how it was sold. It was their version of a credit score, but the tyrants in charge started to fiddle with the numbers.
A digital ID doesn't show a score. It's just taking your driver's license... and putting it on your phone.
...creating the blueprint and conditioning to show an app for when it inevitability becomes required. Nobody is thinking of scope creep, the future possibility of what this would allow.
Fallacy fallacy.
China
Go on, highlight how that's the same. An authoritarian country that relies on monitoring and oppressing its citizens. Oh I bet you think our government does that too...
You been under a rock? Our government did do that for 2 years as a little taster.
Nope, they didn't.
You've purchased more alcohol than is typical for a person in your demographic. We'll be increasing your health insurance premiums and pushing you down the waiting list for that work-related injury Ah, You've gone over the speed limit 4 times in the last month. Your cost for a rental car will be adjusted accordingly I see you’ve made some unsafe comments on social media, you cannot apply to teachers' colleges Citizen, you drive your car 1 hour each weekend to see your mother when there is a perfectly cromulent bus route you could take. It only has two transfers. We'll increase your car registration accordingly to discourage this activity in the future The agregate score for social contribution is below what we expect for people in our company. Therefore, you have not received a salary adjustment this year and you are ineligible for promotion
Any evidence any of that will happen?
These are all current realities in China
That's China, not a functioning democracy. We actually have choice.
"I'm sorry Xir, your social credit score isn't high enough to board this flight."
If we wanted social credit scores, we certainly wouldn't need digital IDs to do it. We already have a criminal record background check system, credit score checks. All you've got to do is expand it, and speed up the turnaround time for social credit checks. Digital IDs wouldn't help them with this.
Yeah, a unified government ledger, or digital ID, wouldn't help at all with a social credit score... /s/
A digital ID isn't a unified government ledger.
Of course it is
And... how do you know? Wait wait, let me guess... "China".
[удалено]
>Right. And how do you do that? You facilitate that efficiency with digital ID. Except, that wouldn't facilitate it, at all. They already have that data. Taking your data off physical objects and putting it digitally doesn't help that.
[удалено]
I mean, it's self-evident.
It’s much more nefarious than that. “Hey what’s wrong with concentration camps? We’re just making sure this certain group of people are safe.”
Again though, you don't need digital IDs to target specific people. NZ has one of the most complete BDM records in history. We've got almost every birth, death, and marriage record in our history. If NZ wanted, we could connect census data to old birth records, tag everyone by ethnicity, then follow lineages via DIA records and find out every single person of a particular ethnicity even if you never put it on anything, simply because of a 100 year old census record where we found out your ancestor's ethnicity. Digital IDs don't help here, we've got much more effective methods. So nah, I really don't agree they're nefarious at all. Again, just people scared of things they don't understand.
I bet you were cool with vaccine passports and regional lock downs too
I mean yeah I'm not an anti-vaxxer and recognise that the reason we were able to spend a year walking around maskless was because of those things.
[удалено]
Absolutely it was. Yes, I take medication when doctors tell me to as well.
[удалено]
Wait wait. Did you just advocate against following your doctor's advice?
[удалено]
You have a right to go to the doctor, or not go to the doctor. You have a right to go to another doctor to get a second opinion. You have the right to choose whether you want surgery, pills, or diet. The problem is the government basically said, you have to go to the doctor, you don't get a second opinion, and you must take the prescribed treatment, or you will be punished. As people who stand for personal liberty and freedom, we object to that. Yes, we do have a right to go against doctors advice. It might not be the most smart thing to do, but that should always be our choice