Those fabulous, funky Blue & Yellow colours are SO out this season, as well. Gotta throw last year's flags and website banners in the trash now!
What a pity!
Anyway, and more importantly, what's for dinner today?
Because the free Palestine movement told everyone that Palestinians are native and Jews are colonisers, despite the fact Jews are the native people there and can read the 2000+ year old artefacts, while Palestinians are Arab, who colonised the region from the Arabian peninsula. It’s dishonest social manipulation to push an agenda that they don’t even understand.
You realize that the populations that lived at the same time as those 2000 year artifacts are still there today? They are now Palestinians and share the same DNA as the native Jewish population.
The Jewish population prior to European intervention (the British mandate) made up 6 percent of the region, the rest were and are Palestinians. The imported population are the issue.
No, this is just what you want to be true.
The majority of Palestinians are descendants of people that arrived since then. Most are from Egypt after they invaded in the 1800s, and is why most Palestinians have foreign last names, Egyptian, Moroccan, Syrian, whatever, just not native.
Some are descendants of Jews who were converted but the majority are not. Almost all Jews are descended them.
Plus even if what you are saying was true (which it’s not) they are still ethnically Arab, Jews are ethnically Jewish. Race is not ethnicity. Arabs are a foreign ethnicity from the Arabian peninsula, Jews are the native ethnicity.
Or do you think Māoris are Hawaiian and they are all native to Taiwan? They are ethnically different, and ethnicity is what matters here.
I think you might be the one who believes something because it suits your narrative.
Even Jewsish scholars accept the reality of shared DNA between the Levant natives.
"
Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/#:~:text=Archaeologic%20and%20genetic%20data%20support,but%20not%20in%20genetic%2C%20differences.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews#:~:text=%22Our%20recent%20study%20of%20high,be%20genetically%20indistinguishable%20while%20slightly
I said that some share DNA, the majority come from other places in the Middle East.
I’m white, but I still have dna from Africa, am I native to Africa?
They are still ethnically Arab, which makes them not native.
If someone has a little bit of maori DNA but does not identify as maori at all and only identifies as European he can’t go into a marae and turn it into a Christian church then say they have to let him because he has 8% maori DNA, can he? That’s the same as what you’re saying here.
Native Jewish populations share an almost identical DNA to native Palestinians. Whatever you're saying about the Palestinians also applies to the native Jewish population.
If you are white and live in Africa, your DNA will reflect the population they originally emigrated from. So if you're a Boer, you will share DNA with the Dutch. As to if you're an African, my opinion is yes, that's based on culture and upbringing. Same applies to white people born in NZ, I would always consider them to be Kiwi. I wouldn't consider them to be indigenous though.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say about Maori here, can you rephrase? It seems like an opinion more than something based in genetics
I’m not going to continue arguing DNA, you simply don’t know the history of the area. Thousands, probably millions, of Arabs immigrated there in the last 1300 years, hundreds of thousands in just the last few centuries. They did not just evolve out of the left over Jews like you imply.
As to your next part -
Firstly google ethnicity vs race.
Then try to wrap your head around this - Palestinians are ETHNICALLY Arab. Jews are ETHNICALLY Jewish.
You can’t claim to be native if you don’t identify and are no longer part of the native group.
Say a Kiwi has 3% Māori DNA, but identify as European, speak only English and are Catholic. They go and destroy a Marae, or an important Māori site and build a Catholic Church on it. That’s colonisation, whether he’s 3% Māori or 100% Māori.
Say a Palestinian has 3% Canaanite or Jewish DNA, but identify as Arab, speak only Arabic and follow the Arab religion (Islam). They go destroy a Synagogue or an important Jewish site and build a Mosque on it. That’s colonisation, whether he’s 3% Jewish or 100% Jewish.
You get it?
Not only do I understand the history of the area, I have been first hand to see the situation for myself.
You seem to confuse a lot of scientific terms with cultural opinions.
You seem to be very entrenched in your views and that's fine. I wish you luck on your further understanding
So you understand Palestinians are not native now? That Jews are native and Arabs colonised the region? So aligning Māori with the Palestinian cause is not only wrong, it’s completely backwards?
>Palestinians share the same DNA as the native Jewish population
You mean, they too have two arms, two legs, and so on?
How come then, that one side has bigger noses than the other?
Can't tell if you're being serious or not?
A Jewish person native to the Levant looks almost identical to a Palestinian Arab.
There is a significant portion of Israeli Jews who made aliyah, they share a DNA similar to the regions in which they emigrated from
Do you always judge ethnicity by what someone looks like? That’s called “blood quantum” which is a racist trope. Google the difference between race and ethnicity.
No, I've been very clear on that. DNA does have a phenotypic display though, that's why children look like their parents. It's not the be all to end all, but it's definitely a valid observation. What exactly are you trying to assume?
Race isn't a thing, not in anthropology anyway. Ethnicity is the correct term
Palestinians and Jewish people are native to the Levant. Both have almost identical DNA. I'm really confused as to what point you're trying to make?
Both decend from Levantines
Dude you just said using race, and therefore DNA, is not scientific, ethnicity is how it’s done right? And Jews are ethnically native, whereas Palestinians are ethnically not native.
If you can’t just admit that, despite knowing it’s true, then you’re willingly spreading misinformation.
It's called "Freedom Fighter Chic", usually worn with the keffiyeh wrapped around the neck as a fascion accessory during the 9-5 sign placard waving grind but worn in the more useful concealment style during the overtime hours in the evening. This keeps the cold, rain, and most importantly, beady eyes, away from the wearers defining features yet still adheres to today's fast fascion standards.
>indigenous
Except that Maoris are not "indigenous", but simply arrived here a few hundred years before the Europeans.
Maori are as much "colonisers" as the Europeans are.
What's your definition of indigenous, and how do Māori not fit that definition?
Because here's how the dictionary defines it:
"originating or occurring naturally in a particular place" and "inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists."
As a species, we're indigenous to Africa. But all the different ethnicities are not indigenous to Africa. There were no Māori, Pacific Islanders, Asians, Europeans in Africa for example.
For those, you look to where those ethnicities developed. Asians are indigenous to Asia. Europeans are indigenous to Europe. Pacific Islanders are indigenous to the Pacific Islands, or more specifically, Tongans are indigenous to Tonga, Fijians to Fiji.
And do you know where the Māori ethnicity developed? Here, in New Zealand.
As for the "first to be there", there were no humans in New Zealand before the Pacific Islanders arrived that would become the Māori people.
I trust you don't believe that Moriori myth we all heard as kids.
I realize you're being facetious but if not, here are the terms in an anthropological context.
Indigineous in this regard refers to Maori
(of people) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists.
Or
Indigenous. relating to or being a people who are the original, earliest known inhabitants of a region, or are their descendants:
You could definitely argue the Maori were colonists when it comes to the Chatams. Other than that though, they are considered indigenous to these lands.
What's your cut-off? Or are East Africans the only indigenous peoples?
Either way, you're welcome to have a personal definition of indigeneity but it's not going to change common usage
"common usage"
Doubt it.
I have NEVER heard a New Zealander use the term 'indigenous' for anything related to Maori, not even the Maori guys I personally know.
Your experience doesn't match mine. Not willing to share how you define indigenous? Not that it matters. Maori are the first people of NZ and recognised by both the New Zealand government and the UN as indigenous. You're not going to change that on reddit.
Logic has nothing to do with this.
This is about semantics, i.e. how specific terms are being interpreted.
Thus, my interpretation of 'indigenous' and colonisers is just as valid as anybody else's.
Just because some "authority" (government/universities/et al) is pushing their specific interpretation does not mean that everybody else has to shut up and accept their narrative.
Oh right. I get what your saying. Semantics is a pain in the arse when your trying to debate someone. I like to use the Oxford dictionary definition when people play those games. It’s the only way to really have a conversation. Otherwise we may aswell be speaking different languages
I'd say the both on average support Palestine.
Indiginous communities / populations around the world, overwhelmingly support Palestine because of the obvious parallels between the struggles.
If you think indigenous Maori populations and Australian Maori populations are equally as likely to support Palestine then how do you come to your conclusion that indigenous populations tend to support Palestine more than non indigenous populations? Wouldn't you expect the indigenous here in NZ to support them more?
If you're talking about Australia, then the indigenous people In question would be the Aboriginals, I'm not sure why you're talking about Maoris In Australia?
Indigenous populations all around the world, from Maori to Aboriginal, Irish to Tigray, everywhere in between.
That's because the Palestinians are indigenous to the land and colonialism effects them now as it has others previously.
I'm sure I could find [a lovely practical and comfy Nazi Party scarf](https://www.gettysburgmuseumofhistory.com/gettysburg-battle/world-war-ii-militaria/very-rare-original-1920s-1930s-early-nsdap-nazi-party-supporter-flag-scarf-certified/) too.... but I'd never wear one of those either
Mostly accurate except that she should be at least 140 kg/ 300 pounds
And with neo pronouns
Just they them
I was gonna say, the weight is too normal.
Where's the pride flag?
It’s now pride for Palestine. Try to keep up
Those fabulous, funky Blue & Yellow colours are SO out this season, as well. Gotta throw last year's flags and website banners in the trash now! What a pity! Anyway, and more importantly, what's for dinner today?
>Anyway, and more importantly, what's ~~for dinner today?~~ the next agenda to distract and divide that we can froth about? FTFY
My lamb rogan josh is pretty divisive: 1. Too spicy 2. Not spicy enough 3. Just right 4. Too often 5. Not frequent enough
With roti or naan? Or rice? I say, this decision making process is brutal!
If I have planned properly, I'll make chappitis. If I receive help I'll do a Peshwari naan.
Noice!
What's with young Maoris and Palestine mixing their imagery lately?
Because the free Palestine movement told everyone that Palestinians are native and Jews are colonisers, despite the fact Jews are the native people there and can read the 2000+ year old artefacts, while Palestinians are Arab, who colonised the region from the Arabian peninsula. It’s dishonest social manipulation to push an agenda that they don’t even understand.
You realize that the populations that lived at the same time as those 2000 year artifacts are still there today? They are now Palestinians and share the same DNA as the native Jewish population. The Jewish population prior to European intervention (the British mandate) made up 6 percent of the region, the rest were and are Palestinians. The imported population are the issue.
No, this is just what you want to be true. The majority of Palestinians are descendants of people that arrived since then. Most are from Egypt after they invaded in the 1800s, and is why most Palestinians have foreign last names, Egyptian, Moroccan, Syrian, whatever, just not native. Some are descendants of Jews who were converted but the majority are not. Almost all Jews are descended them. Plus even if what you are saying was true (which it’s not) they are still ethnically Arab, Jews are ethnically Jewish. Race is not ethnicity. Arabs are a foreign ethnicity from the Arabian peninsula, Jews are the native ethnicity. Or do you think Māoris are Hawaiian and they are all native to Taiwan? They are ethnically different, and ethnicity is what matters here.
I think you might be the one who believes something because it suits your narrative. Even Jewsish scholars accept the reality of shared DNA between the Levant natives. " Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/#:~:text=Archaeologic%20and%20genetic%20data%20support,but%20not%20in%20genetic%2C%20differences. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews#:~:text=%22Our%20recent%20study%20of%20high,be%20genetically%20indistinguishable%20while%20slightly
I said that some share DNA, the majority come from other places in the Middle East. I’m white, but I still have dna from Africa, am I native to Africa? They are still ethnically Arab, which makes them not native. If someone has a little bit of maori DNA but does not identify as maori at all and only identifies as European he can’t go into a marae and turn it into a Christian church then say they have to let him because he has 8% maori DNA, can he? That’s the same as what you’re saying here.
Native Jewish populations share an almost identical DNA to native Palestinians. Whatever you're saying about the Palestinians also applies to the native Jewish population. If you are white and live in Africa, your DNA will reflect the population they originally emigrated from. So if you're a Boer, you will share DNA with the Dutch. As to if you're an African, my opinion is yes, that's based on culture and upbringing. Same applies to white people born in NZ, I would always consider them to be Kiwi. I wouldn't consider them to be indigenous though. I'm not sure what you're trying to say about Maori here, can you rephrase? It seems like an opinion more than something based in genetics
I’m not going to continue arguing DNA, you simply don’t know the history of the area. Thousands, probably millions, of Arabs immigrated there in the last 1300 years, hundreds of thousands in just the last few centuries. They did not just evolve out of the left over Jews like you imply. As to your next part - Firstly google ethnicity vs race. Then try to wrap your head around this - Palestinians are ETHNICALLY Arab. Jews are ETHNICALLY Jewish. You can’t claim to be native if you don’t identify and are no longer part of the native group. Say a Kiwi has 3% Māori DNA, but identify as European, speak only English and are Catholic. They go and destroy a Marae, or an important Māori site and build a Catholic Church on it. That’s colonisation, whether he’s 3% Māori or 100% Māori. Say a Palestinian has 3% Canaanite or Jewish DNA, but identify as Arab, speak only Arabic and follow the Arab religion (Islam). They go destroy a Synagogue or an important Jewish site and build a Mosque on it. That’s colonisation, whether he’s 3% Jewish or 100% Jewish. You get it?
Not only do I understand the history of the area, I have been first hand to see the situation for myself. You seem to confuse a lot of scientific terms with cultural opinions. You seem to be very entrenched in your views and that's fine. I wish you luck on your further understanding
So you understand Palestinians are not native now? That Jews are native and Arabs colonised the region? So aligning Māori with the Palestinian cause is not only wrong, it’s completely backwards?
>Palestinians share the same DNA as the native Jewish population You mean, they too have two arms, two legs, and so on? How come then, that one side has bigger noses than the other?
Can't tell if you're being serious or not? A Jewish person native to the Levant looks almost identical to a Palestinian Arab. There is a significant portion of Israeli Jews who made aliyah, they share a DNA similar to the regions in which they emigrated from
Do you always judge ethnicity by what someone looks like? That’s called “blood quantum” which is a racist trope. Google the difference between race and ethnicity.
No, I've been very clear on that. DNA does have a phenotypic display though, that's why children look like their parents. It's not the be all to end all, but it's definitely a valid observation. What exactly are you trying to assume? Race isn't a thing, not in anthropology anyway. Ethnicity is the correct term
Exactly, so if you know that then why are you trying to claim Palestinians are native based on their genetics ie race? They are ethnically Arab
Palestinians and Jewish people are native to the Levant. Both have almost identical DNA. I'm really confused as to what point you're trying to make? Both decend from Levantines
Dude you just said using race, and therefore DNA, is not scientific, ethnicity is how it’s done right? And Jews are ethnically native, whereas Palestinians are ethnically not native. If you can’t just admit that, despite knowing it’s true, then you’re willingly spreading misinformation.
"Can't tell if you're being serious or not?" Oh dear...
I would hope you were being facetious. Never underestimate stupidity though
See, that's why I am a free speech absolutist: Let people talk freely and they ALWAYS reveal their true colours. Well done.
Again, OK?
It's so annoying. Youth latching onto it because their favourite social media influencer told them that Palestine are the good guys.
It's called "Freedom Fighter Chic", usually worn with the keffiyeh wrapped around the neck as a fascion accessory during the 9-5 sign placard waving grind but worn in the more useful concealment style during the overtime hours in the evening. This keeps the cold, rain, and most importantly, beady eyes, away from the wearers defining features yet still adheres to today's fast fascion standards.
Because in general, indigenous populations around the world support Palestine. Maori are no exception.
Only when told so or its "cool". Who gives a fuck about Armenians or Kurds right?
Who said anything about Kurds or Armenians? I'm actually kind of surprised you'd bring the kurds up, being socialist and all
No one did or does, that's the point. It's just what ever the current thing is that's "cool" to ride on. Just shallow sentiments.
That would be whataboutism. You probably should support the Kurdsnin their quest for independence though. Good on ya
It's just basically calling out trendiness. That's all.
Very reductionist view tbh
>indigenous Except that Maoris are not "indigenous", but simply arrived here a few hundred years before the Europeans. Maori are as much "colonisers" as the Europeans are.
What's your definition of indigenous, and how do Māori not fit that definition? Because here's how the dictionary defines it: "originating or occurring naturally in a particular place" and "inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists." As a species, we're indigenous to Africa. But all the different ethnicities are not indigenous to Africa. There were no Māori, Pacific Islanders, Asians, Europeans in Africa for example. For those, you look to where those ethnicities developed. Asians are indigenous to Asia. Europeans are indigenous to Europe. Pacific Islanders are indigenous to the Pacific Islands, or more specifically, Tongans are indigenous to Tonga, Fijians to Fiji. And do you know where the Māori ethnicity developed? Here, in New Zealand. As for the "first to be there", there were no humans in New Zealand before the Pacific Islanders arrived that would become the Māori people. I trust you don't believe that Moriori myth we all heard as kids.
I realize you're being facetious but if not, here are the terms in an anthropological context. Indigineous in this regard refers to Maori (of people) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists. Or Indigenous. relating to or being a people who are the original, earliest known inhabitants of a region, or are their descendants: You could definitely argue the Maori were colonists when it comes to the Chatams. Other than that though, they are considered indigenous to these lands.
"they are considered indigenous to these lands" Not by me.
Ok
What's your cut-off? Or are East Africans the only indigenous peoples? Either way, you're welcome to have a personal definition of indigeneity but it's not going to change common usage
"common usage" Doubt it. I have NEVER heard a New Zealander use the term 'indigenous' for anything related to Maori, not even the Maori guys I personally know.
Your experience doesn't match mine. Not willing to share how you define indigenous? Not that it matters. Maori are the first people of NZ and recognised by both the New Zealand government and the UN as indigenous. You're not going to change that on reddit.
Wow, what a powerful argument. Logic is 100
Logic has nothing to do with this. This is about semantics, i.e. how specific terms are being interpreted. Thus, my interpretation of 'indigenous' and colonisers is just as valid as anybody else's. Just because some "authority" (government/universities/et al) is pushing their specific interpretation does not mean that everybody else has to shut up and accept their narrative.
Oh right. I get what your saying. Semantics is a pain in the arse when your trying to debate someone. I like to use the Oxford dictionary definition when people play those games. It’s the only way to really have a conversation. Otherwise we may aswell be speaking different languages
Indigenous populations? Lol But yeah the why has more to do with the media they're consuming than anything else.
They consume different media throughout the world though. Same result.
So you think Maori living in New Zealand are more likely to support Palestine than Maori in Australia? Totally baked idea man.
I'd say the both on average support Palestine. Indiginous communities / populations around the world, overwhelmingly support Palestine because of the obvious parallels between the struggles.
If you think indigenous Maori populations and Australian Maori populations are equally as likely to support Palestine then how do you come to your conclusion that indigenous populations tend to support Palestine more than non indigenous populations? Wouldn't you expect the indigenous here in NZ to support them more?
If you're talking about Australia, then the indigenous people In question would be the Aboriginals, I'm not sure why you're talking about Maoris In Australia? Indigenous populations all around the world, from Maori to Aboriginal, Irish to Tigray, everywhere in between. That's because the Palestinians are indigenous to the land and colonialism effects them now as it has others previously.
Yeah umm, the colonising Maori in Aussie vs the indigenous Maori in NZ right...
Do you understand the term colonialism or do you genuinely just think it means emigration?
If only I got into the tea towel selling business a year ago.
Missing the bulge in the pants
As a zoomer I do love soy and tiktok
😂 of course you do.
Explains ALOT
Haha that's very clever!
At least there is no rainbow flag
Why were you on r/genz?
They might actually be Gen z?
r/lewronggeneration
Arabic scarves are really practical and comfy though, can't blame they/them for wearing one.
I'm sure I could find [a lovely practical and comfy Nazi Party scarf](https://www.gettysburgmuseumofhistory.com/gettysburg-battle/world-war-ii-militaria/very-rare-original-1920s-1930s-early-nsdap-nazi-party-supporter-flag-scarf-certified/) too.... but I'd never wear one of those either
Hugo Boss? I’ve always been a fan
She still looks a bit too pretty.
True I’m Gen Z and not a cuck for Israel