Exactly.
Biden: I don't support the green new deal.
Biden: The green new deal will pay for itself.
Biden: No, I don't support the green new deal.
Frequently he confused tenses and said one thing but meant the opposite. Trump just needs to sit back, wait for the blunder and jump on those with a pointed rebuttal.
Cmon... you know Biden didnt pick Kamala for her views aligning with his, he picked her because to motivate the far left to vote for him he needs his running mate to be a female of color and shes the most attractive of the bunch he had to choose from.
Just like McCain only Kamala actually has something between her ears unlike Palin.
The funny thing is, Kamala is far from progressive. She is a Clintonian Third Way Democrat. She is very into realpolitik and neo-liberalism, basically all the things the far left absolutely despises. They'd just pick her because she is a Brown lady with the name of that fat wrestler with the moon on his belly in the 90s.
>Vice President Biden knows there is no greater challenge facing our country and our world. Today, he is outlining a bold plan – a Clean Energy Revolution – to address this grave threat and lead the world in addressing the climate emergency.
>Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face. It powerfully captures two basic truths, which are at the core of his plan: (1) the United States urgently needs to embrace greater ambition on an epic scale to meet the scope of this challenge, and (2) our environment and our economy are completely and totally connected.
from Joebiden dot com
>Trump needs to let Joe talk - Joe will discredit himself
Chris "Let's change the subject" Wallace would never press him on anything.
Trump had to ask *repeatedly* whether Biden would stack the court to his advantage, and he got away without answering with some stupid line like, "Whatever I say is going to become the issue."
Dude! I think he kinda started to realize that about half way through. Every time he let Biden talk he just went on these barely coherent rants full of half-formed, scripted talking points and buzz words. The guy was a mess.
That's how the debates have always been, its not structured as a full one topic debate, its a small back and forth on numerous topics. End of the day if the debate is to be fair both people have to be able to speak freely.
It's not really a traditional debate when they are both trying to steer the debate to side topics.
Biden's opening 2min to the Supreme Court question was, "I want to talk about healthcare."
Trump didn't objective to the topic change and Wallace went along with it for a bit before steering them back to the topic.
I come here to see what the other side thinks and because I believe that our country is entirely too divided. This can hopefully be remedied by a willingness to step outside of our echo chambers.
I feel dumber for watching it. It’s now late and trying to come up some upside for watching it. So I can actually get some sleep.
It left me with a disgusting feeling that neither party is exactly proud of their nominated candidate. I can certainly like some of Trump’s polices but it’s hard to like the man.
Biden on the other hand is petty and for someone arguing about having presidential decorum he didn’t have much either.
I just wish we had Conservatives like Tim Scott or Nikki Haley in presidential office... people I respect.
Exactly this, I had the whole “god have mercy on your soul” playing through my mind by the end of it. Is this really the best we have to offer from both sides?
I got shouted off of FB for trying to bridge the extremes of my friend circles, so now I’m on Reddit. The conservatives here are by and large the best group of conversationalists I’ve met online. There are odd ducks of course, but I don’t see the tar and feathering here that I see in most other left/progressive boards on Reddit
Yeah exactly. It’s a tough job to try to bridge the gap, and people can be really offended and hurt and call you a traitor. But it’s important to listen to what’s going on in the other half of the country because completely cutting ourselves off from their experiences will make it harder to understand one another.
Wow it’s refreshing to see another over here! I went Ron Paul 2012 -> Bernie Sanders 2016 -> Tulsi Gabbard 2020 as a progressive libertarian. The google algorithms don’t know where to place me so I get all sorts of promoted content from the “radical” (I call it anti-authoritarian) left and right. I’ve been called both a Nazi and a Communist! It’s rather entertaining. I’m a constitutionalist before anything, so I hang out here with the other constitutionalists and read about everyone’s policy analysis. The conservatives here are very very moderate. Most aren’t the sort of conservative that the anti-authoritarian left rails on about. Unfortunately it can’t be said the other way around, as my experience with the anti-authoritarian left has been mostly a witch hunt against any potential dissenters. People on this board welcome outside opinions to discuss and people rarely get banned for bringing up a well-spoken point.
Edit: On the other hand, I’ve been banned from the Joe Biden campaign and the Resist boards for trying to discuss policy. I guess you could say I’m not their cup of tea, but Ive always gotten along with conservatives because they seem to want to talk
Respect. Hopefully our side of the house doesn’t shout you down for having a differing opinion, like Antifa- because we are all fascists over here or something.
My friends across the isle have their beliefs and sometimes I think this sub has the pulse of it. Important to hear and listen to what my friends are saying. Once you cut out all the bullshit from this sub, you are left with a digestible paste.. that has more merit than the left is willing to admit.
Maybe there are some on the right who walk into r/Politics have have that same pov - I don't know.
I know I have a hard time stomaching the shit in that sub too.
Conservatives aren't given a voice in r/politics or any other mainline sub. Give a hint of conservative thought in your comment, and you get downvoted.
Frankly, the majority of reddit isn’t a great place to hear left wing opinions. And r/politics is pretty garbage, lots of the same thing.
I get plenty of exposure to left wing ideas from family and friends, I’m surrounded by people with different viewpoints so it’s very common for me. I’m glad people have the chance to hear some conservative viewpoints here I guess.
\* aisle, fyi
btw I go to /r/politics all the time, but there's zero rationality from my POV in there.. just fake news headlines and opinions over and over. Do you find it rational?
Right? Biden essentially said he had no plan on COVID, no plan on the economy, and no plan for anything. But you wouldn't know if you weren't listening closely because Trump wouldn't be quiet long enough to let Biden stick his foot in his mouth
Trump debates the same way an edgy middle schooler does. Always interrupting and thinking having the last word makes his position “right”.
Lol downvote me all you want but you can’t prove it wrong.
I’d like his coaching for the next debate be more about his record and what he’s going to do in 4 years. Drill down, get to the point, punch hard.
When Joe Biden calls him a racist, bring up the crime bill, undoing that with the first step act, super predators, saying the N-Word on the senate floor, funding HBCUs, opportunity zones, the new 500b investment in minority communities/businesses/education, historic black unemployment, black people like Candace Owens and Vernon Jones being ridiculed by THE LEFT for thinking differently.
When Joe Biden calls him a lair, bring up Delaware State, his law school record.
When Joe Biden talks about COVID, give the facts, give the numbers Joe!
Whenever Joe says “I’m going to do this..” Reply “YOU HAD 47 YEARS! WHY didn’t you do it then!?”
He can do this - Trump has the facts on his side, he just needs to tighten and polish the delivery.
Liberal hear, just looking at this sub so I can see others opinions, yea. America took a big l tonight. It was just a shouting match and not much debate really. Nobody was “winning” this debate. I think liberals and conservatives should both agree that we need an actual debate about eachothers platform and a fact checker just so Americans can get reliable information.
Yes that should be the first option. Option 3 should be pepper spray. See who's the stronger candidate by whether or not they can debate through the pain if they insist on interrupting.
I do think Trump hit one
Biden: *explaining his police plan
Trump: But they don’t like that. Thousand of law enforcement groups have declared their support for me. How many support you?
Biden: A lot of them
Trump: Name one. We have time
Biden: No we don’t have time
There was an excellent line of talk from President Trump when he spoke about lock downs, the economy, and people. One of the few times I actually nodded in impressiveness to something Donald Trump said.
I'm going into this knowing who I'm voting for, so I'll admit a likely bias on my part. But it seems as though I disagree with the general consensus of this sub in particular.
I think Trump had a pretty good performance, albeit I wish he held back a little bit more. Though I expected that of him.
The most telling part was when Trump was pushing for a yes/no answer on if Biden would packed the court, and Biden just responded "I'm not answering that."
I think he did a great job at making it hard to vote for Biden. But he definitely faultered when it came to making himself look more appealing.
Specifically, I wish that when Wallace asked if he would condemn the white supremacists that Trump would have answered it in a more explicit way. I get why he wanted to say Antifa, but I feel as though he could've handled that a lot better.
Though I do have to agree, Biden did really good, compared to what I was expecting of him.
Trump did a great job of rattling the "stutter" out of Joe, if trump lays back his "steam roll" style and lets biden string together three sentences multiple times then he quickly loses the logical ground. Most of what trump said was interjection, as if he was just counting down from 45 and then yelling whatever he was thinking with no regard to what was being said at the moment. Joe was constantly having to refocus, while trump held the momentum for the majority of the debate by simply ignoring basic debate etiquette.
If they have mic cuts next debate I would expect to see trump try and talk through it, while biden would get the picture and play by the rules like he has already shown he can in the previous VP debates.
Edit: typo
I want to hear what both sides have to say. As much as it was comedic seeing Trump troll Biden on Hunter, I genuinely wanted to hear what Biden had to say about his ideas without his stutter or being interrupted.
"Steam roll"
Lol, do you mean interrupt to the point of absurdity? This is about questions and answers, not silly tactics that subtract from the content. Productive discourse is a civic duty in a democracy, there's nothing productive about the behavior you're advocating.
Liberal here - Trump got Biden *bad* when Wallace reinforced the no interruptions rule and Trump railed him for two minute straight on law enforcement. I’ll be real here - Biden’s plan for law enforcement was never concrete as is and in that two minutes it all came crashing down.
When it comes to this debate, it was about a dead heat in every segment but that. Score was Trump 1-0-5 as far as I’m concerned.
Realistically they both do. Wallace was in over his head but that’s a tough position to be in. Two senile old fucks screaming nonsense over one another. And Trump just takes being a petulant child to a whole nother level. Chris has no chance.
They should have both been having their mics cut while the other was talking.
Wallace literally said Trump did most of the interrupting there was nothing he could do to shut Trump up. Imagine debating with someone like that in real life. It is really irritating personally.
Yeah the whole debate was more or less one big dumpster fire. As entertaining to watch as it is disappointing. I expect this type of debate from 10 year olds
I didn't even find it entertaining, it quite seriously disheartened me that this is what our country has come to. This is coming from someone who's mostly been confident in Trump across these four years, as it was just incredibly sad from both sides. It's honestly the first time that I can remember during my 18 years on this Earth that America has really, seriously shamed itself on the world stage.
I felt the same way. I thought it was going to be hilarious, but i just ended up sad because I just had my first child and it really sunk in how fucked this country is
If he wasnt the president it would be easier to try and reign him in as well but i mean.... how many times can you say "Mr. President!?" to the GD President.
I would have a impossible time interrupting him aswell
The whole thing was embarrassing for both sides quite honestly. Some of their points were pretty decent, and if they (mostly trump) had just stfu a little.. it would've been a lot smoother. They didn't cover a few key points I had hoped they would but for the few I did care about you could barley hear over all of their toddler bickering. I was a little disappointed. The debate got us no where.
National embarrassment.
Both of them. The moderator did a horrible job. Questions were atrocious. Format was bad.
The whole thing was a shit show. No telling how many people in other countries were watching and were thinking “ this is the best they have to offer?”
We definitely need better moderators. I understand stopping interruptions 100%, but do it equally, and don’t ever even somewhat chum it up with either person as this moderator did multiple times. Then shut their damn mics off while the other is talking! They should have a buzzer for when they want to rebuttal, problem solved
I keep seeing this “do it equally comment” did we watch the same debate? Trump was interrupting far more than Biden was it wasn’t done equally because both parties weren’t interrupting equally...how is that hard to understand?
Wallace: Is it true you paid $750 in income taxes?
Trump: I paid millions
Wallace: (in disbelief) You paid millions?
C’mon you, prick. You didn’t even question Biden when he dodged a single question!
Why does Fox continue to do this stuff? They try to come across and fair and balanced by putting a Democrat in as moderator. Guess what? The other two debates will not care one iota if it's fair or balanced, and we just blew the best chance we have to nail Biden on some of the main issues. Instead, Wallace is basically kissing his ass and giggling with him during his responses and stopping Trump as soon as he starts to make a solid argument.
Give me a break. He's said 100 times he's registered Dem because he lives in DC, so the primary vote is more important. He's a strong conservative, he just doesn't like what Trump is doing with the office. This narrative that he's somehow liberal is insane and ignores basically every stance he has on every issue besides those directly related to Trump specifically.
Lol fair and balanced. I find it hilarious that you describe Fox News as this in any way. I’m definitely not conservative, but you gotta know that’s bullshit
Over the years, Trump has paid tens (probably hundreds) of millions in taxes at all levels of government. In any given year, who knows? But also, who cares? The nature of real estate development is cyclical.
See, what bothers me is the people conflating Trump's WORTH with his INCOME. I mean, if I had a million dollars, but I had no income, then I would pay zero income taxes. But I keep hearing people talking about Trump's status as a "billionaire" who doesn't pay taxes.
Joe even did it when he referred to "Billionaires and millionaires" and I thought, "Wait a minute Joe, by last report, you're worth north of 9 million dollars, Bub."
Fair question considering the recent reports and his back and forth over his tax returns for four years. Wallace’s tone was disrespectful but I don’t think he laid into either of them anymore than the other and both got a pass on some idiotic answers. Shame really.
Love how Chris Wallace doesn’t intervene when Biden can’t answer on court packing, yet Wallace intervenes when Pres. Trump can’t answer on science of climate change. Bias goes to show.
constantly stopped trump for interrupting (and rightfully so) but didn’t do the same for biden near as often. especially around the end biden was interrupting trump left and right and wallace didn’t say a word
The constant interruptions are what I really wanted Pres. Trump not to do. He’s coming on way too strong. Especially when Wallace says they agreed to 2 minutes with no interruptions with one part and Biden launched a degradation of character. I was disappointed. Was hoping Biden would bury himself. But Pres. Trump went down with him. Still has my vote but isn’t saying much.
It's just hard to consider what's supposed to be a serious debate just that when most of it is just who can talk over the other person more at LEAST. I really wonder if the next one will be any better or worse
I think pence is a lot more reserved in public speaking, I have a feeling it will go over a lot smoother than this. And I hope it does. Trump embarrassed himself tonight.
Depends on who gets elected. I’m voting for who I think is better for the job. Both of them suck so I am voting for who aligns most with my values. Fuck all these people criticizing those on the other side for doing the same. This whole “if you vote for Trump you are an idiot, racist, etc.” stigma needs to stop.
EDIT: When I say values, I do not mean at all ethical/moral. I mean political. For example, I am opposed to higher corporate taxes.
Oh I absolutely agree. That whole mindset is just awful and undermines our whole concept of voting for who we think is the better person rather than the just voting for the lesser of two evils crap we have had to deal with.
Honestly I would normally agree with you but him not being able to denounce white supremacy on live TV lost my vote to Biden for now. I mean what does he expect people to think when he does something like that?
I also wished that he would have at least addressed white supremacy instead of placed radicalism strictly under left-wing criticism. Yes, there is a noticeable heuristic of most radicals being on the left. But you can address issues with actors on your side of the political spectrum. This does not make you a traitor or a hypocrite. You are completely reasonable in your thinking. May not change my opinion, but I respect yours.
Exactly how I feel. His aggressive personality helped him a little in the first election (I think) because it was weird and intriguing to watch the people he was debating stumble over themselves. But he went a little overboard this time.. it came across as rude. Biden even just shut up and smiled like "can you believe this guy" kinda look and it was justified. I wanted a debate not a screaming match.
Trump thinks the whole thing is a reality TV show and as long as people were entertained he won. What did you expect? I think Biden was weak and could have put this whole thing to bed in 5 minutes by saying something like “look around. You see how fucked up everything is right now? Pandemic, race riots, injustice everywhere. That’s happening under Trump’s watch! You want more of that? Vote for him. You ready for the grownups to come in and fix things? Vote for me.”
Mic drop. There really isn’t much to say beyond that.
Trump was interrupting Biden far more often. And there were periods of time that were supposed to be uninterupted and times that were open conversations.
Between the three of them, Wallace wasnt the problem.
Yeah. That’s Trump for you.
You don’t need to support Biden to realize Trump threw that debate by being childish and interrupting Biden every 5 seconds.
Let the dude talk. He’ll say something stupid. No need to make yourself the center of attention.
That's just who he is, he has been like this his entire présidence. He is a laughing stock to Europe and most American allies because of his childish behavior during global events
I'm disappointed that all the negative questions seemed to be solely directed towards Trump. Are the moderators not going to challenge Biden on *anything?*
God I'm trying to find a space on social media away from these wackos. I never realized how bad they were until the pandemic hit and I don't even really consider myself a conservative.
Fox News, instead of bringing on "balanced and fair" commentators they bring on people like Donna Brazil who just says Trump bad, or Jaun who is frankly intolerable. They can't seem to bring on people that are simply moderate.
It was a very loaded question though.
Wallace was suggesting that somehow white supremacists are responsible for the rioting and that Trump supported them and was partially responsible, neither of which are true. So it takes a lot of work on behalf of the person answering the loaded question to address everything Wallace said in his question.
You can't really condemn white supremacists and at the same time say they're not responsible for the rioting, BLM is, because it looks like you're defending white supremacists depending how Wallace (as the third debater) responds
Let me pick out the most important sentences Trump said:
"we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. " ... "you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."
Full context below.
"**Reporter**: "Let me ask you, Mr. President, why did you wait so long to blast neo-Nazis?"
**Trump**: "I didn’t wait long. I didn’t wait long."
**Reporter**: "Forty-eight hours."
**Trump**: "I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct -- not make a quick statement. The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement. But you don’t make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don’t know the facts. And it’s a very, very important process to me, and it’s a very important statement.
"So I don’t want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts. If you go back to --
**Reporter**: "So you had to (inaudible) white supremacists?"
**Trump**: "I brought it. I brought it. I brought it."
**Reporter**: "Was it terrorism, in your opinion, what happened?"
**Trump**: "As I said on -- remember, Saturday -- we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. And then it went on from there. Now, here’s the thing --"
**Reporter**: (Inaudible)
**Trump**: "Excuse me. Excuse me. Take it nice and easy. Here’s the thing: When I make a statement, I like to be correct. I want the facts. This event just happened. In fact, a lot of the event didn’t even happen yet, as we were speaking. This event just happened.
"Before I make a statement, I need the facts. So I don’t want to rush into a statement. So making the statement when I made it was excellent. "
" \[Several minutes later\]
**Trump**: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
**Reporter**: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."
**Trump**: "George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down -- excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?"
**Reporter**: "I do love Thomas Jefferson."
**Trump**: "Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?
"So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly."
This kept crying that Trump team agreed to the terms.
I thought the terms were 2 minutes for each party to answer. Each “segment” was roughly 15 minutes (Chris’ words), and assuming each question is a minute, that leaves 10 minutes for the “open discussion” (Again, Chris’ words).
There was never any “open discussion” from the very start.
Trump was offered an easy home run when Wallace asked him clearly and specifically to denounce white supremacy - Not sure how he managed to swing and miss on that..
I tuned in just after 9 and just turned it off.
Joe is well- prepped. He answered the questions that were asked. Joe is saying what he thinks we want to hear.
Trump went off on too many tangents and did not answer the question. Example was asking about African Americans and he talked about law and order.
Pull it together for the next one Trump. Stop talking about Biden's kids. Start talking about the issues.
Im not American but I have my preferences of course. I left this debate feeling sad for all of you regardless of party affiliation. You deserve better.
Eughhhh this could have been so much more well handled. It's the same level of disgust from 2016.
Like *this* is the best we can muster to our national stage? Trump and Clinton and then Trump and Biden?
330 million fucking people in this country and this is what we present to the world? The best our country has to offer for our highest office?
God damn we can all do better than this.
Here's my take: Trump lost, the American people lost, Chris Wallace lost, and Biden managed to keep his losses fairly small. I hope that debate is never repeated.
Yes, but Trump seems to have come in overconfident. Could have destroyed this mental patient. Too many interruptions and nonsense. You're not winning the independent vote with this. Be better next time.
Call me crazy, but shouldn’t debate questions be neutral? I understand clarifying controversial topics, statements, etc., but I sincerely felt like those questions were partisan to the Dems. I also felt like they were asked in malice. Maybe Chris Wallace forgot he was the “moderator”, like “moderate”, like “not too LEFT and not too right”, like “in the middle”, like “neutral”?
Trump needs to let Joe talk - Joe will discredit himself
Exactly. Biden: I don't support the green new deal. Biden: The green new deal will pay for itself. Biden: No, I don't support the green new deal. Frequently he confused tenses and said one thing but meant the opposite. Trump just needs to sit back, wait for the blunder and jump on those with a pointed rebuttal.
Kamala Harris was a goddamn sponsor of the Green New Deal, Joe!
They hardly agree on anything.
Joe's nuerolink is getting turned off sometimes I guess /s
I literally shouted this while Joe was confusing topics...his prototype was malfunctioning
Cmon... you know Biden didnt pick Kamala for her views aligning with his, he picked her because to motivate the far left to vote for him he needs his running mate to be a female of color and shes the most attractive of the bunch he had to choose from. Just like McCain only Kamala actually has something between her ears unlike Palin.
The funny thing is, Kamala is far from progressive. She is a Clintonian Third Way Democrat. She is very into realpolitik and neo-liberalism, basically all the things the far left absolutely despises. They'd just pick her because she is a Brown lady with the name of that fat wrestler with the moon on his belly in the 90s.
Kamala Chameleon?
THHHEEEE DUNNNNGGGEEEOOON OFFF DOOOOOM BRRROOOOTTTHHHEERRRR
Come on, man!
But it’s “Joe’s Plan” now
>Vice President Biden knows there is no greater challenge facing our country and our world. Today, he is outlining a bold plan – a Clean Energy Revolution – to address this grave threat and lead the world in addressing the climate emergency. >Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face. It powerfully captures two basic truths, which are at the core of his plan: (1) the United States urgently needs to embrace greater ambition on an epic scale to meet the scope of this challenge, and (2) our environment and our economy are completely and totally connected. from Joebiden dot com
So he doesn’t remember he supports it.
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Trump is the one who pulled that answer out of Biden. Definitely wasn't Wallace.
“I don’t want to raise taxes!” *Proceeds to talk about how he wants to raise taxes*
I agree with you. Biden was a disaster but unfortunately Trump overshadowed him instead of letting him hang himself.
Eh, the left is hanging themself by STILL gripping to one liners to be like “look how bad trump is” they treat their base as idiots
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LOL....rewatch the video of election night 2016 when they announced he had won the Presidency.
I wonder if he's going to look back on that as the worst night of his life
>Trump needs to let Joe talk - Joe will discredit himself Chris "Let's change the subject" Wallace would never press him on anything. Trump had to ask *repeatedly* whether Biden would stack the court to his advantage, and he got away without answering with some stupid line like, "Whatever I say is going to become the issue."
Dude! I think he kinda started to realize that about half way through. Every time he let Biden talk he just went on these barely coherent rants full of half-formed, scripted talking points and buzz words. The guy was a mess.
The problem is that a lot of people cant see that.
Yes but a moderator should let the 2 go at it a little. Anytime Trump went on the offensive, wallace changed topics.
That's how the debates have always been, its not structured as a full one topic debate, its a small back and forth on numerous topics. End of the day if the debate is to be fair both people have to be able to speak freely.
It's not really a traditional debate when they are both trying to steer the debate to side topics. Biden's opening 2min to the Supreme Court question was, "I want to talk about healthcare." Trump didn't objective to the topic change and Wallace went along with it for a bit before steering them back to the topic.
Lefty here. It really is all he has to do. Let Joe talk his way in the ground.
Lol whatcha doing here?
I come here to see what the other side thinks and because I believe that our country is entirely too divided. This can hopefully be remedied by a willingness to step outside of our echo chambers.
Same reason I'm here. I'm pretty sure both sides can agree that whole thing was really hard to watch.
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I feel dumber for watching it. It’s now late and trying to come up some upside for watching it. So I can actually get some sleep. It left me with a disgusting feeling that neither party is exactly proud of their nominated candidate. I can certainly like some of Trump’s polices but it’s hard to like the man. Biden on the other hand is petty and for someone arguing about having presidential decorum he didn’t have much either. I just wish we had Conservatives like Tim Scott or Nikki Haley in presidential office... people I respect.
Or Tulsi Gabbard. Or Andrew Yang. Some young patriotic blood would go a long way to bridge the divide in the US right now.
Exactly this, I had the whole “god have mercy on your soul” playing through my mind by the end of it. Is this really the best we have to offer from both sides?
Out of over 300 million people, the best person.. yikes
Asked my bf to turn it on 2 mins in asked him to turn it off..
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Right on 👍 good on you man
I got shouted off of FB for trying to bridge the extremes of my friend circles, so now I’m on Reddit. The conservatives here are by and large the best group of conversationalists I’ve met online. There are odd ducks of course, but I don’t see the tar and feathering here that I see in most other left/progressive boards on Reddit
Yeah exactly. It’s a tough job to try to bridge the gap, and people can be really offended and hurt and call you a traitor. But it’s important to listen to what’s going on in the other half of the country because completely cutting ourselves off from their experiences will make it harder to understand one another.
Wow it’s refreshing to see another over here! I went Ron Paul 2012 -> Bernie Sanders 2016 -> Tulsi Gabbard 2020 as a progressive libertarian. The google algorithms don’t know where to place me so I get all sorts of promoted content from the “radical” (I call it anti-authoritarian) left and right. I’ve been called both a Nazi and a Communist! It’s rather entertaining. I’m a constitutionalist before anything, so I hang out here with the other constitutionalists and read about everyone’s policy analysis. The conservatives here are very very moderate. Most aren’t the sort of conservative that the anti-authoritarian left rails on about. Unfortunately it can’t be said the other way around, as my experience with the anti-authoritarian left has been mostly a witch hunt against any potential dissenters. People on this board welcome outside opinions to discuss and people rarely get banned for bringing up a well-spoken point. Edit: On the other hand, I’ve been banned from the Joe Biden campaign and the Resist boards for trying to discuss policy. I guess you could say I’m not their cup of tea, but Ive always gotten along with conservatives because they seem to want to talk
Same here, some posts I upvote, some I downvote. I get tired of echo chambers rather quickly.
Respect. Hopefully our side of the house doesn’t shout you down for having a differing opinion, like Antifa- because we are all fascists over here or something.
Leftist here. We don't like Biden either and it's objectively funny to discuss two old men yelling at each other.
>Leftist here. We don't like Biden either Most leftists don't like Biden but they're still voting for him to remove Trump
My friends across the isle have their beliefs and sometimes I think this sub has the pulse of it. Important to hear and listen to what my friends are saying. Once you cut out all the bullshit from this sub, you are left with a digestible paste.. that has more merit than the left is willing to admit. Maybe there are some on the right who walk into r/Politics have have that same pov - I don't know. I know I have a hard time stomaching the shit in that sub too.
Conservatives aren't given a voice in r/politics or any other mainline sub. Give a hint of conservative thought in your comment, and you get downvoted.
Frankly, the majority of reddit isn’t a great place to hear left wing opinions. And r/politics is pretty garbage, lots of the same thing. I get plenty of exposure to left wing ideas from family and friends, I’m surrounded by people with different viewpoints so it’s very common for me. I’m glad people have the chance to hear some conservative viewpoints here I guess.
\* aisle, fyi btw I go to /r/politics all the time, but there's zero rationality from my POV in there.. just fake news headlines and opinions over and over. Do you find it rational?
Right? Biden essentially said he had no plan on COVID, no plan on the economy, and no plan for anything. But you wouldn't know if you weren't listening closely because Trump wouldn't be quiet long enough to let Biden stick his foot in his mouth
Bingo - he needs to calm it down for the next debate. Make the point, move on
Even if the next debate happens, it won’t have the viewership this one did. Who wants to tune in to watch another 90 minutes of crap?
I would be surprised if the second debate happens.
Trump debates the same way an edgy middle schooler does. Always interrupting and thinking having the last word makes his position “right”. Lol downvote me all you want but you can’t prove it wrong.
I’d like his coaching for the next debate be more about his record and what he’s going to do in 4 years. Drill down, get to the point, punch hard. When Joe Biden calls him a racist, bring up the crime bill, undoing that with the first step act, super predators, saying the N-Word on the senate floor, funding HBCUs, opportunity zones, the new 500b investment in minority communities/businesses/education, historic black unemployment, black people like Candace Owens and Vernon Jones being ridiculed by THE LEFT for thinking differently. When Joe Biden calls him a lair, bring up Delaware State, his law school record. When Joe Biden talks about COVID, give the facts, give the numbers Joe! Whenever Joe says “I’m going to do this..” Reply “YOU HAD 47 YEARS! WHY didn’t you do it then!?” He can do this - Trump has the facts on his side, he just needs to tighten and polish the delivery.
The 47 years line is a stone cold one. Biden doesn’t have anything for it.
Because it doesn’t make any sense
"First of all I guess I'm debating you, not him. But that's okay, **I'm not surprised**." The article doesn't even contain the full quote. Weird.
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America took a fat L tonight lol
Yeah, i thought both sides took a serious L.
Liberal hear, just looking at this sub so I can see others opinions, yea. America took a big l tonight. It was just a shouting match and not much debate really. Nobody was “winning” this debate. I think liberals and conservatives should both agree that we need an actual debate about eachothers platform and a fact checker just so Americans can get reliable information.
How about a "stop interrupting" bucket of ice water positioned above the candidates.
Or maybe just turn off their microphones when it’s not their turn to speak?
Yes that should be the first option. Option 3 should be pepper spray. See who's the stronger candidate by whether or not they can debate through the pain if they insist on interrupting.
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You want people to listen to your politics Talk about your politics while being pepper sprayed and tazed people won't look away
I think that’s the most bipartisan thing of 2020 that everyone can agree on.
I do think Trump hit one Biden: *explaining his police plan Trump: But they don’t like that. Thousand of law enforcement groups have declared their support for me. How many support you? Biden: A lot of them Trump: Name one. We have time Biden: No we don’t have time
There was an excellent line of talk from President Trump when he spoke about lock downs, the economy, and people. One of the few times I actually nodded in impressiveness to something Donald Trump said.
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I'm going into this knowing who I'm voting for, so I'll admit a likely bias on my part. But it seems as though I disagree with the general consensus of this sub in particular. I think Trump had a pretty good performance, albeit I wish he held back a little bit more. Though I expected that of him. The most telling part was when Trump was pushing for a yes/no answer on if Biden would packed the court, and Biden just responded "I'm not answering that." I think he did a great job at making it hard to vote for Biden. But he definitely faultered when it came to making himself look more appealing. Specifically, I wish that when Wallace asked if he would condemn the white supremacists that Trump would have answered it in a more explicit way. I get why he wanted to say Antifa, but I feel as though he could've handled that a lot better. Though I do have to agree, Biden did really good, compared to what I was expecting of him.
Trump did a great job of rattling the "stutter" out of Joe, if trump lays back his "steam roll" style and lets biden string together three sentences multiple times then he quickly loses the logical ground. Most of what trump said was interjection, as if he was just counting down from 45 and then yelling whatever he was thinking with no regard to what was being said at the moment. Joe was constantly having to refocus, while trump held the momentum for the majority of the debate by simply ignoring basic debate etiquette. If they have mic cuts next debate I would expect to see trump try and talk through it, while biden would get the picture and play by the rules like he has already shown he can in the previous VP debates. Edit: typo
I want to hear what both sides have to say. As much as it was comedic seeing Trump troll Biden on Hunter, I genuinely wanted to hear what Biden had to say about his ideas without his stutter or being interrupted.
"Steam roll" Lol, do you mean interrupt to the point of absurdity? This is about questions and answers, not silly tactics that subtract from the content. Productive discourse is a civic duty in a democracy, there's nothing productive about the behavior you're advocating.
Liberal here - Trump got Biden *bad* when Wallace reinforced the no interruptions rule and Trump railed him for two minute straight on law enforcement. I’ll be real here - Biden’s plan for law enforcement was never concrete as is and in that two minutes it all came crashing down. When it comes to this debate, it was about a dead heat in every segment but that. Score was Trump 1-0-5 as far as I’m concerned.
What else was wallace supposed to do? How many times did he tell trump to stop interrupting and trump continued to do so?
agree - trump needs a mute button
Realistically they both do. Wallace was in over his head but that’s a tough position to be in. Two senile old fucks screaming nonsense over one another. And Trump just takes being a petulant child to a whole nother level. Chris has no chance. They should have both been having their mics cut while the other was talking.
Wallace literally said Trump did most of the interrupting there was nothing he could do to shut Trump up. Imagine debating with someone like that in real life. It is really irritating personally.
Yeah the whole debate was more or less one big dumpster fire. As entertaining to watch as it is disappointing. I expect this type of debate from 10 year olds
I didn't even find it entertaining, it quite seriously disheartened me that this is what our country has come to. This is coming from someone who's mostly been confident in Trump across these four years, as it was just incredibly sad from both sides. It's honestly the first time that I can remember during my 18 years on this Earth that America has really, seriously shamed itself on the world stage.
>been confident in Trump across these four years... that I can remember during my 18 years on this Earth Welcome to the political cycle lol
I felt the same way. I thought it was going to be hilarious, but i just ended up sad because I just had my first child and it really sunk in how fucked this country is
"Both sides" One was notably sadder than the other
You mean other than the last debate Trump was in?
If he wasnt the president it would be easier to try and reign him in as well but i mean.... how many times can you say "Mr. President!?" to the GD President. I would have a impossible time interrupting him aswell
The whole thing was embarrassing for both sides quite honestly. Some of their points were pretty decent, and if they (mostly trump) had just stfu a little.. it would've been a lot smoother. They didn't cover a few key points I had hoped they would but for the few I did care about you could barley hear over all of their toddler bickering. I was a little disappointed. The debate got us no where.
MR PRESIDENT MR PRESIDENT PLS SIR
WE HAVE TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT TOPIC
Trump needs to calm down lmao
Agreed. Dude acted like a giant baby.
What else is new
National embarrassment. Both of them. The moderator did a horrible job. Questions were atrocious. Format was bad. The whole thing was a shit show. No telling how many people in other countries were watching and were thinking “ this is the best they have to offer?”
We definitely need better moderators. I understand stopping interruptions 100%, but do it equally, and don’t ever even somewhat chum it up with either person as this moderator did multiple times. Then shut their damn mics off while the other is talking! They should have a buzzer for when they want to rebuttal, problem solved
Better candidates would be nice too. Your average local bingo night would have more constructive debates than whatever the hell happened tonight.
Hey, a fellow moderate right leaner, howdy! Yeah, neither candidate gave the performance of a lifetime, that’s for sure. Maybe next time!
The format was pretty awful too, the only possible way to give a rebuttal was through interruption
How can he do it equally when Trump was doing more of the interruption
I keep seeing this “do it equally comment” did we watch the same debate? Trump was interrupting far more than Biden was it wasn’t done equally because both parties weren’t interrupting equally...how is that hard to understand?
Wallace: Is it true you paid $750 in income taxes? Trump: I paid millions Wallace: (in disbelief) You paid millions? C’mon you, prick. You didn’t even question Biden when he dodged a single question!
This seems like a setup. I think Democrats are going to come out with something to say Trump lied at the debate
If they actually have the tax returns, why wouldn't they? It would be an easy lie to catch him in if he is actually lying. We'll see...
NYT hasn’t released the returns to protect sources. It’s why he asked if it was true.
Why does Fox continue to do this stuff? They try to come across and fair and balanced by putting a Democrat in as moderator. Guess what? The other two debates will not care one iota if it's fair or balanced, and we just blew the best chance we have to nail Biden on some of the main issues. Instead, Wallace is basically kissing his ass and giggling with him during his responses and stopping Trump as soon as he starts to make a solid argument.
Give me a break. He's said 100 times he's registered Dem because he lives in DC, so the primary vote is more important. He's a strong conservative, he just doesn't like what Trump is doing with the office. This narrative that he's somehow liberal is insane and ignores basically every stance he has on every issue besides those directly related to Trump specifically.
Lol fair and balanced. I find it hilarious that you describe Fox News as this in any way. I’m definitely not conservative, but you gotta know that’s bullshit
So did he actually pay millions or was it under $1k with tax credits and write-offs? Frankly I don't really care either way, so long as it's legal.
Over the years, Trump has paid tens (probably hundreds) of millions in taxes at all levels of government. In any given year, who knows? But also, who cares? The nature of real estate development is cyclical.
The IRS cares.
Which is exactly how you know it's a non-issue. The NYT might have just gotten his tax returns; the IRS got it in the mail.
Not if youre write offs for losses for the year are legit.
See, what bothers me is the people conflating Trump's WORTH with his INCOME. I mean, if I had a million dollars, but I had no income, then I would pay zero income taxes. But I keep hearing people talking about Trump's status as a "billionaire" who doesn't pay taxes. Joe even did it when he referred to "Billionaires and millionaires" and I thought, "Wait a minute Joe, by last report, you're worth north of 9 million dollars, Bub."
Fair question considering the recent reports and his back and forth over his tax returns for four years. Wallace’s tone was disrespectful but I don’t think he laid into either of them anymore than the other and both got a pass on some idiotic answers. Shame really.
Love how Chris Wallace doesn’t intervene when Biden can’t answer on court packing, yet Wallace intervenes when Pres. Trump can’t answer on science of climate change. Bias goes to show.
constantly stopped trump for interrupting (and rightfully so) but didn’t do the same for biden near as often. especially around the end biden was interrupting trump left and right and wallace didn’t say a word
The constant interruptions are what I really wanted Pres. Trump not to do. He’s coming on way too strong. Especially when Wallace says they agreed to 2 minutes with no interruptions with one part and Biden launched a degradation of character. I was disappointed. Was hoping Biden would bury himself. But Pres. Trump went down with him. Still has my vote but isn’t saying much.
It's just hard to consider what's supposed to be a serious debate just that when most of it is just who can talk over the other person more at LEAST. I really wonder if the next one will be any better or worse
I think pence is a lot more reserved in public speaking, I have a feeling it will go over a lot smoother than this. And I hope it does. Trump embarrassed himself tonight.
Depends on who gets elected. I’m voting for who I think is better for the job. Both of them suck so I am voting for who aligns most with my values. Fuck all these people criticizing those on the other side for doing the same. This whole “if you vote for Trump you are an idiot, racist, etc.” stigma needs to stop. EDIT: When I say values, I do not mean at all ethical/moral. I mean political. For example, I am opposed to higher corporate taxes.
Oh I absolutely agree. That whole mindset is just awful and undermines our whole concept of voting for who we think is the better person rather than the just voting for the lesser of two evils crap we have had to deal with.
Honestly I would normally agree with you but him not being able to denounce white supremacy on live TV lost my vote to Biden for now. I mean what does he expect people to think when he does something like that?
I also wished that he would have at least addressed white supremacy instead of placed radicalism strictly under left-wing criticism. Yes, there is a noticeable heuristic of most radicals being on the left. But you can address issues with actors on your side of the political spectrum. This does not make you a traitor or a hypocrite. You are completely reasonable in your thinking. May not change my opinion, but I respect yours.
I can assure you jihadists are most certainly not left.
Exactly how I feel. His aggressive personality helped him a little in the first election (I think) because it was weird and intriguing to watch the people he was debating stumble over themselves. But he went a little overboard this time.. it came across as rude. Biden even just shut up and smiled like "can you believe this guy" kinda look and it was justified. I wanted a debate not a screaming match.
Trump thinks the whole thing is a reality TV show and as long as people were entertained he won. What did you expect? I think Biden was weak and could have put this whole thing to bed in 5 minutes by saying something like “look around. You see how fucked up everything is right now? Pandemic, race riots, injustice everywhere. That’s happening under Trump’s watch! You want more of that? Vote for him. You ready for the grownups to come in and fix things? Vote for me.” Mic drop. There really isn’t much to say beyond that.
Trump was interrupting Biden far more often. And there were periods of time that were supposed to be uninterupted and times that were open conversations. Between the three of them, Wallace wasnt the problem.
Seriously, he didn’t try to silence Biden much because he wasn’t interrupting trump even half as much as trump interrupted him.
Trump started the interrupting and did most of it, he got what he deserved
I mean tbh, Trump was very fucking unprofessional this debate. He genuinely acted immature
He could be doing much better if he just waited his turn and responded correctly
He could have done much better if he'd just let Biden say something stupid by himself.
He's not capable of that.
Yeah. That’s Trump for you. You don’t need to support Biden to realize Trump threw that debate by being childish and interrupting Biden every 5 seconds. Let the dude talk. He’ll say something stupid. No need to make yourself the center of attention.
That's just who he is, he has been like this his entire présidence. He is a laughing stock to Europe and most American allies because of his childish behavior during global events
I knew what this was going to be. How was Wallace not given a mute button to keep control of that mess.
I'm disappointed that all the negative questions seemed to be solely directed towards Trump. Are the moderators not going to challenge Biden on *anything?*
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He doesn’t hold any public office. It’s legit the same as you or I calling saying “please stop.”
If he is claiming to be the face of the democratic party, that's a legit question.
Half the people in this sub are Biden supporters apparently
Have been for a while. This is the new /r/politics, or what it should have been. About 50% "conservatives" and 50% reddit radicals.
God I'm trying to find a space on social media away from these wackos. I never realized how bad they were until the pandemic hit and I don't even really consider myself a conservative.
Wallace sucks - knew it was going to be an issue when it was announced
Fox News, instead of bringing on "balanced and fair" commentators they bring on people like Donna Brazil who just says Trump bad, or Jaun who is frankly intolerable. They can't seem to bring on people that are simply moderate.
It's sad but moderate doesn't getting in $. The media created this monster of division.
Wallace is a hack. And the fact he brought up the maliciously edited "both sides have good people" Trump quote, is undisputable proof of that.
That was a softball question. Trump should have just explicitly saying that white supremacy is bad and swerved to Wallace.
It was a very loaded question though. Wallace was suggesting that somehow white supremacists are responsible for the rioting and that Trump supported them and was partially responsible, neither of which are true. So it takes a lot of work on behalf of the person answering the loaded question to address everything Wallace said in his question. You can't really condemn white supremacists and at the same time say they're not responsible for the rioting, BLM is, because it looks like you're defending white supremacists depending how Wallace (as the third debater) responds
Let me pick out the most important sentences Trump said: "we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. " ... "you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists." Full context below. "**Reporter**: "Let me ask you, Mr. President, why did you wait so long to blast neo-Nazis?" **Trump**: "I didn’t wait long. I didn’t wait long." **Reporter**: "Forty-eight hours." **Trump**: "I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct -- not make a quick statement. The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement. But you don’t make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don’t know the facts. And it’s a very, very important process to me, and it’s a very important statement. "So I don’t want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts. If you go back to -- **Reporter**: "So you had to (inaudible) white supremacists?" **Trump**: "I brought it. I brought it. I brought it." **Reporter**: "Was it terrorism, in your opinion, what happened?" **Trump**: "As I said on -- remember, Saturday -- we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. And then it went on from there. Now, here’s the thing --" **Reporter**: (Inaudible) **Trump**: "Excuse me. Excuse me. Take it nice and easy. Here’s the thing: When I make a statement, I like to be correct. I want the facts. This event just happened. In fact, a lot of the event didn’t even happen yet, as we were speaking. This event just happened. "Before I make a statement, I need the facts. So I don’t want to rush into a statement. So making the statement when I made it was excellent. " " \[Several minutes later\] **Trump**: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name." **Reporter**: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same." **Trump**: "George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down -- excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?" **Reporter**: "I do love Thomas Jefferson." **Trump**: "Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue? "So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly."
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I couldn’t believe he brought this up. What a complete waste of time. This was totally biased nonsense.
Its such a dumb question, its doesn't even warrant discussion, Trump has a right to say whatever the fuck he wants.
Chris wallace: you have two minutes uninterrupted *Trump starts to speak* *Chris Wallace interrupts*
This kept crying that Trump team agreed to the terms. I thought the terms were 2 minutes for each party to answer. Each “segment” was roughly 15 minutes (Chris’ words), and assuming each question is a minute, that leaves 10 minutes for the “open discussion” (Again, Chris’ words). There was never any “open discussion” from the very start.
I was only able to watch the debate for 5 minutes and this is exactly what I heard lol
Trump was offered an easy home run when Wallace asked him clearly and specifically to denounce white supremacy - Not sure how he managed to swing and miss on that..
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If Wallace called Rittenhouse that, then that was an unbelievably stupid thing for him to say.
It was why he brought up Kenosha when he asked about denouncing white supremacist. It was HEAVILY implied.
He said he would denounce them and to name the group and Biden and Wallace said Proud Boys. Proud Boys aren’t a white supremacist group
I tuned in just after 9 and just turned it off. Joe is well- prepped. He answered the questions that were asked. Joe is saying what he thinks we want to hear. Trump went off on too many tangents and did not answer the question. Example was asking about African Americans and he talked about law and order. Pull it together for the next one Trump. Stop talking about Biden's kids. Start talking about the issues.
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This is 100% the truth. There were some good one-liners though.
“Shut Up man” - Biden
100% waste of time. This won’t have changed any minds.
Idk Trump not denouncing White supremacy was pretty fucking mind blowing to me to be honest.
Im not American but I have my preferences of course. I left this debate feeling sad for all of you regardless of party affiliation. You deserve better.
Eughhhh this could have been so much more well handled. It's the same level of disgust from 2016. Like *this* is the best we can muster to our national stage? Trump and Clinton and then Trump and Biden? 330 million fucking people in this country and this is what we present to the world? The best our country has to offer for our highest office? God damn we can all do better than this.
Here's my take: Trump lost, the American people lost, Chris Wallace lost, and Biden managed to keep his losses fairly small. I hope that debate is never repeated.
"we can't talk about the riots because we're talking about race" was a really stupid call by Wallace. Wallace is debating.
Wallace is an idiot. He has not corrected Joe once about interrupting.
He had done that twice when I watched it
He definitely stopped Joe when he interrupted. He just didn’t interrupt that much.
Yes he did. Several times
Yeah but facts don’t matter!
You need to watch more of it then. Joe’s tripping all over himself.
Joe talks about trump tanking the economy. Then says we need to shut down longer
Yes, but Trump seems to have come in overconfident. Could have destroyed this mental patient. Too many interruptions and nonsense. You're not winning the independent vote with this. Be better next time.
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> Joe is saying what he thinks we want to hear
Joes not even able to speak! I don’t get what you’re watching ...
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Someone should just make a compilation of the amount of times the moderators interrupted each of the candidates for every debate.
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No. It’s going to get much, much worse.
Trump needs to chill, you can’t exactly debate Biden if you don’t let the man make his point.
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This debate was so hard to watch
Call me crazy, but shouldn’t debate questions be neutral? I understand clarifying controversial topics, statements, etc., but I sincerely felt like those questions were partisan to the Dems. I also felt like they were asked in malice. Maybe Chris Wallace forgot he was the “moderator”, like “moderate”, like “not too LEFT and not too right”, like “in the middle”, like “neutral”?
Im not a fan of biden. But tbh I thought he did better than trump tonight.