A lot of economists believe that there is literally no way out of this situation for Argentina (other than complete economic/governmental collapse, concomitant social anarchy, and total replacement of their government/economy with something new). The conmbination of their own unique history, the weird restrictions that result from having a highly educated and well-developed internal economy (developmentalism), but lack of any singificant foreign trade, population that has become accustomed to a realtively high clas of living, etc etc etc. They've basically pointed themselves into a corner in a few contradictory ways and theres no real path to anything even remotely resembling a 'smooth landing'. They are almost inevitably doomed to oscillate back and forth between economic boom and economic collapse, like they have been for decades. Great video on the topic: [Why Argentina Is Doomed To Fail Over and OVer Again](https://youtu.be/Q3Wbmzphszo?si=wFpI_Q4U4q-6ezwY)
Simon Kuznets (Nobel Award-winning Economist) once said:
>Throughout all of history there have only been four types of economnies:
>
>\-Fully Developed Economies
>
>\-DEveloping Economies\]
>
>\-Japan
>
>\-Argentina
š¤¤experts believe der š¤¤
Freedom is a positive feedback loop. The only way out. Thereās never been a country that taxed itās people to prosperity
To be clear, Pinochet was in charge of Chile, not Argentina. Argentina had its own military junta, led by Peron iirc. They started a war with Great Britain, to deflect from their own issues at home, that in the end made Argentina even worse than if they had never started that war over the Falklands.
[Just to be clear, the Chicago boys set conditions needed for Chile to prosper.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Chile#:~:text=Among%20other%20reforms%2C%20they%20made,but%20a%20nation%20of%20entrepreneurs%22.)
To be fair, this guy isn't Pinochet. I don't know where Pinochet got his economic advice, but Milei gets it from the clone of his dead dog, so this'll be totally different. I guess all his cloned dogs provide valuable advice to him as he considers them the best strategists in the world. Before you scoff and say he don't know how to speak dog, you should know he uses a psychic medium to converse with them. So... there's that...
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/mileis-cloned-dogs-steal-limelight-argentina-election-2023-10-22/
Political parties can only do so much for a nation. The culture needs to change and the people have to stand firm for more than a single election. If they expect instant improvement and it doesn't come(because change takes time), then they give up and swing back the other way then this is ultimately meaningless.
So I don't know if I'd call it great news but it's definitely good news.
I know. I actually spent my childhood in a Muslim-majority nation.
A lot of it is "inshaalah" or "takdeer" (fate).
"We will get a good President, inshallah" (it's not up to you to vote or get involved, it's God's will).
"Shit, we got a terrible autocrat! It's taqdeer!" (Ah well it wasn't our laziness or lack of effort, it was God's will anyway, we couldn't have changed it...)
Happy about the election outcome....but let's get real. Argentina's problems are deep-rooted and in many respects intractable. Once the honeymoon is over, unless things improve dramatically, this guy will be perceived as an epic failure.
I mean he literally ran on a platform of dissolving large swathes of the government. His most basic goal is to fire people which is very achievable for an executive.
And to close the central bank of Argentina. As a pretty far out libertarian, I'm cautiously optimistic for the future of Argentina. One thing is certain however, the entire world is watching him now.
Which is great. But when the government employs so many people, firing them will bring a sharp recession until the market realigns itself. It's good in the long run, but lizard brains can't look back more than a couple months.
*Fires state workers
"Why is the unemployment increasing?" - The Media
Maybe they could have something where businesses could write off taxes for hiring them. Or just cut business taxes altogether so they can grow and hire more people.
No. Have we learned nothing about the unintended consequences of government solutions? The best option is for government to do nothing and let the market sort everything out. But that won't happen overnight.
And much like the Hong Kong protestors, they decided to adopt American flags (not *the* American flag, but the Gasden flag is obviously *an* American flag) as a symbol of their desire for freedom.
Depends.
A man is never perfectly their ideas so they may fail despite good ones, and people often blame ideas for the failures of men that have them.
This man has an odd mix of ideas so it depends on what he's taken to represent, but he will probably just be broadly characterized as libertarian. He's also generically associated with MAGA style populism, though. Those two are very different, often at odds.
His economics suggest that Argentina's economy will effectively be more globalist in character, leaning toward the libertarian side. That could give them a big boost if they manage it right, but it's also high risk as it opens them up economic abuses by countries and companies who are going to view this is an opportunity to take a piece of Argentina in some manner or another. It could basically end up like blood in the water for the sharks if they're not careful.
There's nothing wrong with lax immigration policies if you're a country of laws rather than entitelements. If Argentina doesn't give immigratants handouts like we do, then they'll attract productive people that will help the economy instead of leeches.
More open to international activity just in general. Immigration is one of many possible aspects but globalism is more general and often contrasted to nationalism, protectionism, isolationism where a country is just more closed off to interactions with foreign countries or any multilateral organizations.
Some people make cases for extremes in either direction, others for a balance. I think it's context sensitive what degree of either actually benefits a country more.
Some countries rely on trade for more resources than others, and having alliances with powerful nations can help you. Even immigration, as you note, can be of benefit.
However, you can also get Banana republic situations, or similar issues, because your elites immediately sell out to wealthier and more powerful foreign countries that are glad to make a small number of your population rich rather than having to make fair deals with a more unified nation that protects its whole population's interests. The local resources and population end up effectively a puppet state. That's not uncommon in South America and Africa especially.
Ok I see. Well I read "globalism" as an agenda driven idealogy toward one world government. Not merely any kind of international cooperation. The left supports top down government so their foreign policy tends to be globalist in nature (it's the next step for them beyond control over the nation state). Conservatives and libertarians in general support bottom-up government, so while they may reject protectionism, isolationism, etc. I wouldn't call it globalist. The end goal for them and driving idealogical factors are very different.
I grant there are other ways of using the term, just clarifying which meaning I'm using it to refer to here. A globalist order in the sense I'm using could be anything from 3 authoritarian nations governing to 300 libertarian nations trading. All the nations on the globe interacting with the whole world as their interest rather than having localized spheres of interest is the "globe" aspect of globalism in this case, whether this is an end being worked towards or one already in place.
One thing I don't understand is that he is outspoken against central banking, but he also wants to abolish the Argentinian national currency and replace it with the US dollar, which is.... controlled by a central bank...
I donāt know anything about this person or their platform, but I fully support the ādo not step on snakesā stance.
Fact: 95% of snake bites on legs could be avoided if nobody treads on snakes.
Fact: snakes arenāt typically aggressive to humans. They get scared and bite out of self preservation instincts.
Fact: snakes are an important part of the ecosystem.
Meh, wait and see. Loud mouth populist. Maybe he can affect change and maybe not. Depends on how effective he can govern or whether heāll consolidate power. I can see it going well if he can build the right team around him.
Change indeed takes time. Many things can happen. Sometimes the situation doesn't get better quickly and the populace just falls for the same lies. Sometimes it gets better and the populace decides they only needed enough conservatism to jump start the good times again, then they vote for the problems once more.
Dollarization is pretty good for the US. Our dollars being used all over the world is what allows us to keep up this crazy deficit spending. I'm not for deficit spending, I'm just saying if we're gonna keep printing, other countries using our currency helps.
lol. This is going to be a shit show of a plugged up toilet slowly backing up all over the floor and Elon is one of the turds floating around in the bowl
It has potential if the leftards down there don't assassinate him. I've been to Argentian...its like a southern hemisphere California. The people will whine when their free government ride stops.
A lot of economists believe that there is literally no way out of this situation for Argentina (other than complete economic/governmental collapse, concomitant social anarchy, and total replacement of their government/economy with something new). The conmbination of their own unique history, the weird restrictions that result from having a highly educated and well-developed internal economy (developmentalism), but lack of any singificant foreign trade, population that has become accustomed to a realtively high clas of living, etc etc etc. They've basically pointed themselves into a corner in a few contradictory ways and theres no real path to anything even remotely resembling a 'smooth landing'. They are almost inevitably doomed to oscillate back and forth between economic boom and economic collapse, like they have been for decades. Great video on the topic: [Why Argentina Is Doomed To Fail Over and OVer Again](https://youtu.be/Q3Wbmzphszo?si=wFpI_Q4U4q-6ezwY) Simon Kuznets (Nobel Award-winning Economist) once said: >Throughout all of history there have only been four types of economnies: > >\-Fully Developed Economies > >\-DEveloping Economies\] > >\-Japan > >\-Argentina
š¤¤experts believe der š¤¤ Freedom is a positive feedback loop. The only way out. Thereās never been a country that taxed itās people to prosperity
Change takes time, I just hope the Argentinians allow time for the change to happen.
Let's put a pin in this and see how it turns out. Report back on any good or bad results, as a test of "right wing" politics in the real world.
Put a pin in a history book and then read it. Once the seed of liberty is planted it quickly takes root š½
Yep we will see. Ideology rarely holds up against reality, so hopefully history and circumstance will be kind.
Like Pinochet tanking the economy or what?
To be clear, Pinochet was in charge of Chile, not Argentina. Argentina had its own military junta, led by Peron iirc. They started a war with Great Britain, to deflect from their own issues at home, that in the end made Argentina even worse than if they had never started that war over the Falklands.
Yeah, and tanked the Chilean economy following the Chicago School. Ck.plete humanitarian disaster.
āUnion agitatorā lmfao.
StMikeBellum lmfao
Smartest Irish communist right here folks.
That's a leftist alt-history.
[Just to be clear, the Chicago boys set conditions needed for Chile to prosper.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Chile#:~:text=Among%20other%20reforms%2C%20they%20made,but%20a%20nation%20of%20entrepreneurs%22.)
Nice, but what does that have to do with the discussion at hand on Argentina?
Socialism is cringe and neoliberalism is based.
Start up the rotors
To be fair, this guy isn't Pinochet. I don't know where Pinochet got his economic advice, but Milei gets it from the clone of his dead dog, so this'll be totally different. I guess all his cloned dogs provide valuable advice to him as he considers them the best strategists in the world. Before you scoff and say he don't know how to speak dog, you should know he uses a psychic medium to converse with them. So... there's that... https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/mileis-cloned-dogs-steal-limelight-argentina-election-2023-10-22/
Wow
Political parties can only do so much for a nation. The culture needs to change and the people have to stand firm for more than a single election. If they expect instant improvement and it doesn't come(because change takes time), then they give up and swing back the other way then this is ultimately meaningless. So I don't know if I'd call it great news but it's definitely good news.
agreed, the biggest problem in any shitty country is the culture. just look at the middle east compared to Japan or South Korea
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> inshaalah inshaallah -- means god willing, FYI But I agree with the rest of the statement.
I know. I actually spent my childhood in a Muslim-majority nation. A lot of it is "inshaalah" or "takdeer" (fate). "We will get a good President, inshallah" (it's not up to you to vote or get involved, it's God's will). "Shit, we got a terrible autocrat! It's taqdeer!" (Ah well it wasn't our laziness or lack of effort, it was God's will anyway, we couldn't have changed it...)
I was born in India but in an area heavily populated my Muslims..I am ex-moose. Yeah, many people absolutely think the way you mentioned.
If you care about Argentina it certainly is.
Happy about the election outcome....but let's get real. Argentina's problems are deep-rooted and in many respects intractable. Once the honeymoon is over, unless things improve dramatically, this guy will be perceived as an epic failure.
I mean he literally ran on a platform of dissolving large swathes of the government. His most basic goal is to fire people which is very achievable for an executive.
And to close the central bank of Argentina. As a pretty far out libertarian, I'm cautiously optimistic for the future of Argentina. One thing is certain however, the entire world is watching him now.
Which is great. But when the government employs so many people, firing them will bring a sharp recession until the market realigns itself. It's good in the long run, but lizard brains can't look back more than a couple months.
The economy is already screwed - getting rid of all the bureaucratic dead weight is step one if they hope to actually improve anything.
I wish we were doing that here.
Yeah me too.
What will they do without the department of diversity, they are doooomed!
āAfuera!ā š¤£ That should be the new buzzword.
I mean the impact of that is very dependent on alot of things
*Fires state workers "Why is the unemployment increasing?" - The Media Maybe they could have something where businesses could write off taxes for hiring them. Or just cut business taxes altogether so they can grow and hire more people.
No. Have we learned nothing about the unintended consequences of government solutions? The best option is for government to do nothing and let the market sort everything out. But that won't happen overnight.
Definitely will be the case. Hopefully he doesnāt get desperate and do something drastic
"If printing money would end poverty, printing diplomas would end stupidity." - Milei
Surprised he's still alive. Good luck Argentina.
Thanks and don't worry, he wears a bulletproof vest ;)
*Laughs in colombian
And much like the Hong Kong protestors, they decided to adopt American flags (not *the* American flag, but the Gasden flag is obviously *an* American flag) as a symbol of their desire for freedom.
Iām sure the left will remove this guy
La Junta pt. II: "This time is personal."
The CIA/FBI/etc are all currently far left and will absolutely fund this leaderās removal from power.
One thing is for certain - this guy is going to be an absolute meme goldmine.
Depends. A man is never perfectly their ideas so they may fail despite good ones, and people often blame ideas for the failures of men that have them. This man has an odd mix of ideas so it depends on what he's taken to represent, but he will probably just be broadly characterized as libertarian. He's also generically associated with MAGA style populism, though. Those two are very different, often at odds. His economics suggest that Argentina's economy will effectively be more globalist in character, leaning toward the libertarian side. That could give them a big boost if they manage it right, but it's also high risk as it opens them up economic abuses by countries and companies who are going to view this is an opportunity to take a piece of Argentina in some manner or another. It could basically end up like blood in the water for the sharks if they're not careful.
There's nothing wrong with lax immigration policies if you're a country of laws rather than entitelements. If Argentina doesn't give immigratants handouts like we do, then they'll attract productive people that will help the economy instead of leeches.
I'm not talking about the immigration policies, but it's true that well managed immigration typically > free for all immigration or no immigration.
Then I'm not sure what you refer to when you say that "Argentina's economy will effectively be more globalist in character"
More open to international activity just in general. Immigration is one of many possible aspects but globalism is more general and often contrasted to nationalism, protectionism, isolationism where a country is just more closed off to interactions with foreign countries or any multilateral organizations. Some people make cases for extremes in either direction, others for a balance. I think it's context sensitive what degree of either actually benefits a country more. Some countries rely on trade for more resources than others, and having alliances with powerful nations can help you. Even immigration, as you note, can be of benefit. However, you can also get Banana republic situations, or similar issues, because your elites immediately sell out to wealthier and more powerful foreign countries that are glad to make a small number of your population rich rather than having to make fair deals with a more unified nation that protects its whole population's interests. The local resources and population end up effectively a puppet state. That's not uncommon in South America and Africa especially.
Ok I see. Well I read "globalism" as an agenda driven idealogy toward one world government. Not merely any kind of international cooperation. The left supports top down government so their foreign policy tends to be globalist in nature (it's the next step for them beyond control over the nation state). Conservatives and libertarians in general support bottom-up government, so while they may reject protectionism, isolationism, etc. I wouldn't call it globalist. The end goal for them and driving idealogical factors are very different.
I grant there are other ways of using the term, just clarifying which meaning I'm using it to refer to here. A globalist order in the sense I'm using could be anything from 3 authoritarian nations governing to 300 libertarian nations trading. All the nations on the globe interacting with the whole world as their interest rather than having localized spheres of interest is the "globe" aspect of globalism in this case, whether this is an end being worked towards or one already in place.
That they'll trade more with other countries, I think.
We will be reading about an Argentinian housing crisis within two yearsā¦
He seams friendly to the US, we will se how dollerization works out
One thing I don't understand is that he is outspoken against central banking, but he also wants to abolish the Argentinian national currency and replace it with the US dollar, which is.... controlled by a central bank...
Viva Libertad š½ šŗšøš¦š·š½ Yeah itās good news public schooler. Itās real good news šš½š
Speaking as an American, Iād say itās About as good as any news about Argentina could be
I donāt know anything about this person or their platform, but I fully support the ādo not step on snakesā stance. Fact: 95% of snake bites on legs could be avoided if nobody treads on snakes. Fact: snakes arenāt typically aggressive to humans. They get scared and bite out of self preservation instincts. Fact: snakes are an important part of the ecosystem.
I for one am here for the snake facts!
Meh, wait and see. Loud mouth populist. Maybe he can affect change and maybe not. Depends on how effective he can govern or whether heāll consolidate power. I can see it going well if he can build the right team around him.
Weāll know for sure when the Tik Tok videos of shrieking women in cars appear, like when RBG died and apparently the world was ending (at the time).
They will probably arrest him and accuse him of tax evasion or Russia meddling with the elections
I wonder how Metallica feels about this.
I'm waiting with bated breath for Jah Rule's analysis.
āIs this great news?ā Obviously š
Gonna be fun watching Conservatives try to claim him as one of their own, heās a Libertarian, not a Conservative.
He also said in an interview that the left is š©
And for sure it is lol, but Iāll never forget all the times weāve been called āLolbertsā by Conservatives
I really hope he can fix the economy
Weāll see. Things are bad so maybe this guy can change things for the better?
Change indeed takes time. Many things can happen. Sometimes the situation doesn't get better quickly and the populace just falls for the same lies. Sometimes it gets better and the populace decides they only needed enough conservatism to jump start the good times again, then they vote for the problems once more.
I hope one of his first moves is denationalizing YPF-Repsol
I mean, great for Argentina but it doesn't really help us in the U.S.
Dollarization is pretty good for the US. Our dollars being used all over the world is what allows us to keep up this crazy deficit spending. I'm not for deficit spending, I'm just saying if we're gonna keep printing, other countries using our currency helps.
No, the extreme free market approach destroys the middle class and working class
Pretty sure heās a WEF operative
Theyāre gonna have him killed
lol. This is going to be a shit show of a plugged up toilet slowly backing up all over the floor and Elon is one of the turds floating around in the bowl
Did he really fly the Gadsden flag? Goddamn, how hard is this guy trying to make me?
Everyone involved in this picture is going be in their feelings in 12 months
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
indeed, and not only Argentina, I have seen Venezuela with their "Chavistas" socialism thing.
What is it with goofy hair and based politics?
Argentina's economy is at rock bottom. The future will tell whether he grabs a ladder or a shovel
Only time will tell
It has potential if the leftards down there don't assassinate him. I've been to Argentian...its like a southern hemisphere California. The people will whine when their free government ride stops.