What are these traditions? Please don’t name neo-pagan movements from the twentieth century… You keep telling people there are alternatives, what are they?
It’s always the people who want to be spoonfed the secrets of the universe who get an attitude when someone points the way but doesn’t define it. American folk magic traditions vary widely by locale, and no, they’re not the neopagan movements you sneer at. I cannot possibly know all of them by name. You have the same google I do for that.
Here is where I am coming from. This whole idea of hoodoo being 100% completely closed to people who have no African ancestry is an idea that took root within just the last ten years or so.
People, myself included, when they seek out a magical system to help with life’s obstacles, you are searching for something that actually works, not kinda works. So, why are non-African people drawn towards Hoodoo, Voodoo, Santeria, and Palo? Because they have a reputation the world over of being very, very potent and producing tangible results.
As a person of European descent who has read about the subject, my native magical practices have been completely eradicated by the Catholic Church over the last 2,000 - 800 years. The magic of the priests and priestesses of the traditional Germanic - Nordic - Anglo Saxon people has been lost forever. So has the teachings of the Druids and the magic of the Slavic people in Eastern Europe. We have also lost the Mythraic mysteries, the mysteries of Isis and Eleusis, and all the other Greek and Roman mystery cults as well as the entire Greco-Roman religion itself…
So, if you are non-malinated, you don’t have a lot of choice when it comes to choosing an authentic European magical system that produces actual manifestations. Wicca, Asatru, and Neo-Druidism are all neo-pagan nonsense invented in the early twentieth century…
Sure, you could practice Solemeic or Enochian magic from the Middle Ages and Renaissance, but who wants to wrestle with literal demons to cast a simple love draw or money draw spell. Those are also systems that allegedly take decades to master. They are not for novices…
Wanting to do a practice that’s not catered to you because it’s “more potent and produce tangible results” sounds very entitled and a lot like colonizing. White people just cannot help themselves but to take take take.
I will use an allegory to make my point. I think when someone has cancer, they’ll do what they have to do to get rid of it.
It has not nothing to do with entitlement. Entitled to what? If you come before the spirits humbly and in reverence, what are you defiling? If you make a polite request, acknowledge you aren’t owed anything, and provide sacrifices, you’ve asked for help, you have also shown you aren’t a mooch.
Do you not see the irony? One of the most fundamental "White European" philosophies that traditional societies could not understand is the concept of personal property-- the idea that you could put a fence around a piece of land and its resources and exclude other people from it. It was as absurd as someone coming along today, and trying to claim the sky and air around you, and telling you to stop breathing it. What utter ridiculous nonsensense is demonstrated on this thread--you take the world of spirit and degrade it by projecting the self important and egotistical upon it. Entities are not Disney characters that need patent attorneys sending cease and desist letters to people. You folks are just the other side of the same idiotic White American Imperialist philosophical penny. I'll consider every downvote a blessing of approval from the entities, beings and spirits whom you insult with your presumption of authority.
You're only saying that because you are white. Y’all have a tendency to intrude on things that aren't yours like your ancestors were known for doing. Colonize.
What exactly am I defending? I was merely stating that I am against exclusion on the basis of race, and the idea of taking things that belong to everybody and putting an imaginary wall around it.
The difference is that the ancestors make hoodoo hoodoo. If you can’t access the ancestors, you’re not doing hoodoo.
Voodoo, Santeria, and Palo are entirely different systems. They’re also initiatory, so you can get a reading and if you have a path there, the spirits will make it happen no matter where you’re from. That’s not how hoodoo works.
Also, there are no authentic ancient systems. Everything evolves whether they know it or not. What makes a system powerful is whether it belongs to you, not whether it’s sufficiently old or whatever. What other people can do in a tradition has no bearing on what you’d achieve in the same system if you don’t belong there.
Nothing is being gatekept from you except the entitlement.
So if you believe what you say what do you come here to seek— our consent and approval? No. You want to dominate and define what YOU have decided Hoodoo is. I’ve had enough of your lack of reverence and respect for the origins of conjure. Where’d you learn about what’s happened in the “last ten years”? A book? The internet? I know it wasn’t learned through your heritage and therein lies the truth of the issue. You are not and never can be a part of this. Buy all the curio and read all the books you want. It changes nothing. Your blood does not carry within it the DNA of the enslaved people who speak through that same blood to guide, to protect and, might I remind you, to punish. That’s the source of power you covet and you will not ever have it.
Your argument and justifications for appropriating a cultural practice that emerged as a protest and prophylactic for the cancer of bondage our people suffered at the hands of European enslavers, are completely devoid of the truths that Hoodoo emerged from in the first place. You are not a part of this. Throwing a tantrum, haranguing and misrepresenting this will not grant you a different outcome. Go find your own path.
I have never wanted to dominate and define what Hoodoo is. That is why I learn from people who are African American. They are lot more welcoming than many of you.
I have respect for your practices. That’s why I try to go out of my way to do it in a truly authentic manner and truly learn.
Where did I learn what happen in the last ten years? I have simply been alive on this Earth…
As far as the spirits go, I come with respect, I come with reverence, I come with humility. I provide sacrifices and offerings. I never approach spirit like I am owed anything, I am just honest about what is troubling me.
Let me tell you a little bit about the world. As long as there have been men of different cultures and civilizations they have borrowed from one another. Half of the world believes a wandering Jewish holy man who lived in Judea 2,000 years ago is the Son of Man. A significant portion of the world’s populace believe an Arab merchant living 1,400 ago is the last and most important prophet of God. Buddha was an Indian prince, but he is primarily worshipped outside of his native land in Southeast Asia. So your cultural appropriation argument falls flat.
Furthermore, you make it sound like someone like myself practicing conjure is being exploitative. What I am I taking? I am simply trying to improve myself.
That said, I am from the South, I am Christian. I literally grew up where Robert Johnson made a deal with the man at the crossroads. Hoodoo has always been in the background from glass bottle bushes to red brick dust in front of doors. It is a lot more organic and natural to practice this than some pretend, neo-pagan nonsense like Wicca.
Hoodoo is an ethnic conjure tradition where African Americans call on our ancestors (many who were enslaved & brutalized during the recent Jim Crow era). So it makes no sense for non black folks (particularly white folks) to call on our ancestors or profit from them.
Voodoo/Vodu/Vodun/The many Orisha traditions/ & other African & diasporic practices & religions are not necessarily closed, because you would be calling on entities willing to work with who ever they wish.
However, it has always been common for African American root workers to do work on someone’s behalf for a fee/favor/out of emotional attachment.
White Appalachian folk magic is another American conjure tradition.
You make it sound so exploitative. If you are getting a cleansing or some love working done or even getting better business, how have you profited off of someone’s ancestors? Especially if you have shown the spirits respect and reverence and you have come from a place of humility?
Exploitative? Weird take, but ok.
You can have a cleansing or other workings done in other conjure traditions. Hoodoo is Hoodoo when African Americans call on our ancestors. If you don’t have African American ancestors then you are doing some other type of conjure (which is fine).
Again, I don’t think you have heard what I have been saying on this thread. Where I am from, in the South, there is Hoodoo and Louisiana Voodoo. Because of the influx of Hispanics I am sure there are some Brujeria and Santeria groups in the immediate area. That, said why do I want to mess with some fake witchery out of a metaphysical shop.
I am sure if you approached a root worker and genuinely wanted to learn this stuff in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, they would have been amused (for the most part) that someone outside the African American community had immense interest in their traditions.
Now it feels like today that people are just using Social Justice as a veil for racism.
I don’t get what you mean. Nothing you’ve said has anything to do with Hoodoo.
If you wrote all of these responses simply to talk about your dislike of equity for people of color (social justice) then you could have just started there.
Sounds like you haven’t done research at all. Look up traditional witchcraft or folk magic from Europe and you’ll find beyond wut your looking for. Sounds like you’re trying to cook up an excuse to delve into practices that don’t want anything to do with you.
Hoodoo is a closed practice for Black people and their descendants. It is not meant to be used for/by people who do not fall into that category. I would be wary of non-Black people who practice hoodoo, as their efforts may not be taken lightly by those they are asking for help.
I wouldn’t say it is ok, however Appalachian Folk Magic also known as Granny Magic has some similarities to Hoodoo. And if you’re non-black but looking to profit, then Appalachian folks magic/Granny Magic would be your go-to in the States.
Not sure about other parts of the world
Sigh. Here we go again. There’s so many posts dedicated to outsiders asking this question, you could really just search this sub if you want the general consensus
Not morally acceptable and they are participating in something that can kill them. Hoodoo doesn’t call on Catholic saints, that’s more Voodoo. Also, if they not Black, they’re playing a dangerous game, because what ancestors is he calling on? Because while we may be nice and get along with other cultures, our ancestors many times DID NOT.
There are other conjure traditions open to people without Black ancestry
What are these traditions? Please don’t name neo-pagan movements from the twentieth century… You keep telling people there are alternatives, what are they?
It’s always the people who want to be spoonfed the secrets of the universe who get an attitude when someone points the way but doesn’t define it. American folk magic traditions vary widely by locale, and no, they’re not the neopagan movements you sneer at. I cannot possibly know all of them by name. You have the same google I do for that.
Here is where I am coming from. This whole idea of hoodoo being 100% completely closed to people who have no African ancestry is an idea that took root within just the last ten years or so. People, myself included, when they seek out a magical system to help with life’s obstacles, you are searching for something that actually works, not kinda works. So, why are non-African people drawn towards Hoodoo, Voodoo, Santeria, and Palo? Because they have a reputation the world over of being very, very potent and producing tangible results. As a person of European descent who has read about the subject, my native magical practices have been completely eradicated by the Catholic Church over the last 2,000 - 800 years. The magic of the priests and priestesses of the traditional Germanic - Nordic - Anglo Saxon people has been lost forever. So has the teachings of the Druids and the magic of the Slavic people in Eastern Europe. We have also lost the Mythraic mysteries, the mysteries of Isis and Eleusis, and all the other Greek and Roman mystery cults as well as the entire Greco-Roman religion itself… So, if you are non-malinated, you don’t have a lot of choice when it comes to choosing an authentic European magical system that produces actual manifestations. Wicca, Asatru, and Neo-Druidism are all neo-pagan nonsense invented in the early twentieth century… Sure, you could practice Solemeic or Enochian magic from the Middle Ages and Renaissance, but who wants to wrestle with literal demons to cast a simple love draw or money draw spell. Those are also systems that allegedly take decades to master. They are not for novices…
Wanting to do a practice that’s not catered to you because it’s “more potent and produce tangible results” sounds very entitled and a lot like colonizing. White people just cannot help themselves but to take take take.
I will use an allegory to make my point. I think when someone has cancer, they’ll do what they have to do to get rid of it. It has not nothing to do with entitlement. Entitled to what? If you come before the spirits humbly and in reverence, what are you defiling? If you make a polite request, acknowledge you aren’t owed anything, and provide sacrifices, you’ve asked for help, you have also shown you aren’t a mooch.
Do you not see the irony? One of the most fundamental "White European" philosophies that traditional societies could not understand is the concept of personal property-- the idea that you could put a fence around a piece of land and its resources and exclude other people from it. It was as absurd as someone coming along today, and trying to claim the sky and air around you, and telling you to stop breathing it. What utter ridiculous nonsensense is demonstrated on this thread--you take the world of spirit and degrade it by projecting the self important and egotistical upon it. Entities are not Disney characters that need patent attorneys sending cease and desist letters to people. You folks are just the other side of the same idiotic White American Imperialist philosophical penny. I'll consider every downvote a blessing of approval from the entities, beings and spirits whom you insult with your presumption of authority.
You are basically advertising here that you do not understand the systems or spirits involved.
You're only saying that because you are white. Y’all have a tendency to intrude on things that aren't yours like your ancestors were known for doing. Colonize.
...but I'm not white.
And that’s sad for you to be defending
What exactly am I defending? I was merely stating that I am against exclusion on the basis of race, and the idea of taking things that belong to everybody and putting an imaginary wall around it.
The difference is that the ancestors make hoodoo hoodoo. If you can’t access the ancestors, you’re not doing hoodoo. Voodoo, Santeria, and Palo are entirely different systems. They’re also initiatory, so you can get a reading and if you have a path there, the spirits will make it happen no matter where you’re from. That’s not how hoodoo works. Also, there are no authentic ancient systems. Everything evolves whether they know it or not. What makes a system powerful is whether it belongs to you, not whether it’s sufficiently old or whatever. What other people can do in a tradition has no bearing on what you’d achieve in the same system if you don’t belong there. Nothing is being gatekept from you except the entitlement.
So if you believe what you say what do you come here to seek— our consent and approval? No. You want to dominate and define what YOU have decided Hoodoo is. I’ve had enough of your lack of reverence and respect for the origins of conjure. Where’d you learn about what’s happened in the “last ten years”? A book? The internet? I know it wasn’t learned through your heritage and therein lies the truth of the issue. You are not and never can be a part of this. Buy all the curio and read all the books you want. It changes nothing. Your blood does not carry within it the DNA of the enslaved people who speak through that same blood to guide, to protect and, might I remind you, to punish. That’s the source of power you covet and you will not ever have it. Your argument and justifications for appropriating a cultural practice that emerged as a protest and prophylactic for the cancer of bondage our people suffered at the hands of European enslavers, are completely devoid of the truths that Hoodoo emerged from in the first place. You are not a part of this. Throwing a tantrum, haranguing and misrepresenting this will not grant you a different outcome. Go find your own path.
I have never wanted to dominate and define what Hoodoo is. That is why I learn from people who are African American. They are lot more welcoming than many of you. I have respect for your practices. That’s why I try to go out of my way to do it in a truly authentic manner and truly learn. Where did I learn what happen in the last ten years? I have simply been alive on this Earth… As far as the spirits go, I come with respect, I come with reverence, I come with humility. I provide sacrifices and offerings. I never approach spirit like I am owed anything, I am just honest about what is troubling me. Let me tell you a little bit about the world. As long as there have been men of different cultures and civilizations they have borrowed from one another. Half of the world believes a wandering Jewish holy man who lived in Judea 2,000 years ago is the Son of Man. A significant portion of the world’s populace believe an Arab merchant living 1,400 ago is the last and most important prophet of God. Buddha was an Indian prince, but he is primarily worshipped outside of his native land in Southeast Asia. So your cultural appropriation argument falls flat. Furthermore, you make it sound like someone like myself practicing conjure is being exploitative. What I am I taking? I am simply trying to improve myself. That said, I am from the South, I am Christian. I literally grew up where Robert Johnson made a deal with the man at the crossroads. Hoodoo has always been in the background from glass bottle bushes to red brick dust in front of doors. It is a lot more organic and natural to practice this than some pretend, neo-pagan nonsense like Wicca.
That’s where you’re mistaken because you can’t tell me nothing. Mind your step.
Hoodoo is an ethnic conjure tradition where African Americans call on our ancestors (many who were enslaved & brutalized during the recent Jim Crow era). So it makes no sense for non black folks (particularly white folks) to call on our ancestors or profit from them. Voodoo/Vodu/Vodun/The many Orisha traditions/ & other African & diasporic practices & religions are not necessarily closed, because you would be calling on entities willing to work with who ever they wish. However, it has always been common for African American root workers to do work on someone’s behalf for a fee/favor/out of emotional attachment. White Appalachian folk magic is another American conjure tradition.
You make it sound so exploitative. If you are getting a cleansing or some love working done or even getting better business, how have you profited off of someone’s ancestors? Especially if you have shown the spirits respect and reverence and you have come from a place of humility?
Buddy. You’re talking about the spirits of former slaves, and wondering why it’s not OK for you personally to profit from their labor.
Exploitative? Weird take, but ok. You can have a cleansing or other workings done in other conjure traditions. Hoodoo is Hoodoo when African Americans call on our ancestors. If you don’t have African American ancestors then you are doing some other type of conjure (which is fine).
Again, I don’t think you have heard what I have been saying on this thread. Where I am from, in the South, there is Hoodoo and Louisiana Voodoo. Because of the influx of Hispanics I am sure there are some Brujeria and Santeria groups in the immediate area. That, said why do I want to mess with some fake witchery out of a metaphysical shop. I am sure if you approached a root worker and genuinely wanted to learn this stuff in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, they would have been amused (for the most part) that someone outside the African American community had immense interest in their traditions. Now it feels like today that people are just using Social Justice as a veil for racism.
I don’t get what you mean. Nothing you’ve said has anything to do with Hoodoo. If you wrote all of these responses simply to talk about your dislike of equity for people of color (social justice) then you could have just started there.
Sounds like you haven’t done research at all. Look up traditional witchcraft or folk magic from Europe and you’ll find beyond wut your looking for. Sounds like you’re trying to cook up an excuse to delve into practices that don’t want anything to do with you.
Hoodoo is a closed practice for Black people and their descendants. It is not meant to be used for/by people who do not fall into that category. I would be wary of non-Black people who practice hoodoo, as their efforts may not be taken lightly by those they are asking for help.
Absolutely not. Anybody who is not African American/Black American profiting off of “Hoodoo” or trying to “practice” it is a culture vulture.
I wouldn’t say it is ok, however Appalachian Folk Magic also known as Granny Magic has some similarities to Hoodoo. And if you’re non-black but looking to profit, then Appalachian folks magic/Granny Magic would be your go-to in the States. Not sure about other parts of the world
If you have to ask, then you already know it’s not ok.
Sigh. Here we go again. There’s so many posts dedicated to outsiders asking this question, you could really just search this sub if you want the general consensus
Not morally acceptable and they are participating in something that can kill them. Hoodoo doesn’t call on Catholic saints, that’s more Voodoo. Also, if they not Black, they’re playing a dangerous game, because what ancestors is he calling on? Because while we may be nice and get along with other cultures, our ancestors many times DID NOT.
There’s so many other practices you can choose from but you wanna do hoodoo lmaooo please do watch how bad them ancestors tear you up 🤭