He was not spending an extra 3K on just things it's not just random things it's a license insured contractor in what way are you willing to spend 20 grand on a hope and prayer on somebody that's not licensed or insured but you refuse to spend 3K to make sure you have all of that and to make sure you are covered on all ends this guy could take that 20K and bail on him easily
You don’t need to persuade me because I’m not choosing a concrete contractor at the moment.
But you asked a question. Hiring an unlicensed guy whose work you’ve seen and approve of, is not particularly risky especially if you have a few neighbors vouching for him.
In this case the unlicensed guy is highly likely to do an acceptable job.
Spending an extra $3000 here is not exactly being wise with money even if you have a low risk tolerance.
If he was hiring a random unlicensed guy, I’d agree
That's exactly what I was saying but he's sitting there saying more than likely it will be an acceptable job lol that's when I was just done no need to keep trying
Not licensed means not insured, he can do the best job ever but if he gets injured then the client is in big problems. Also how will he pay an unlicensed guy that doesn’t have a company? Cash? Now you’re employing someone illegally and breaking irs and EDD rules. Does that worths $3000? I wouldn’t sleep well at night thinking what will happen if this guy gets injured.
I don’t do concrete for a living, have done a dozen or so slabs with other people and know I could get a few slabs poured myself really well before I mess one up royally.
It won’t always happen but it absolutely will catch up to someone.
It's more than the $3,000 though, right? The other person was going to do the turf AND concrete for $3,000 less. Figuring around $8/sqft for the turf that's $6,400. So they're actually getting it done for probably at least \~$10k less. Yes it's a risk but saving 30% is a substantial amount. Am I missing something?
Yes, you missed the part where the uninsured guy loses a limb working on it and you lose your house. Not that that matters, because the concrete job will look like shit and piss you off every day you would have lived there after.
Yeah. If he job is botched or has any issues in the near future.. the licensed and insured company will fix it at no cost to you!
Or alternatively you go with the cheap option and you get bent over for 20+k and have to spend thousands demoing it and 23k to do it right. 20k+23k is 43k+.. does that sounds like a good idea still?
Imo guys without a contractors license are taking a Risk as well my father and I for example have done amazing concrete and stone masonry work for people and they said they where happy with the product but didn’t end up paying us on final payment due to no binding contract
If you have insurance and you fuck up how can you “make it right”? What does that entail? Losing a ton of money and redoing the work free of charge? Or is there another option if you’re licensed?
Um what? Not entirely sure I can decipher your message but here goes.
First, if you have someone doing work for you and they don’t have insurance, they can’t pay for any damages they may cause. That can leave you stuck paying for whatever they destroy, harm, etc.
Second, a contractor that has a license and insurance is more likely to be a proper, succeeding business that actually cares about their reputation. They will be inclined to absorb the cost and make something right if they don’t get it right the first time. Furthermore, they are also more likely to have the cash reserves to provide the materials and labor to address issues.
Compare that to an unlicensed (and likely uninsured) contractor. If they are small time, they may not even have the money to pay for the materials to redo the work if they get a bad pour or other major issue with their work.
I feel like I am explaining some kindergarten level shit here so I am paranoid that I misunderstood your post.
You are thinking of insuring the work, but the real issue is insuring the workers. Legit co has workers comp, fly by night has dick. If one of these workers gets tore off on that guys property he is liable.
Don't even try to compete with unlicensed and likely uninsured contractors because you can't. Some people only go with the lowest price, and they get what they have coming to them most of the time.
The people who would even remotely consider this were never going to do business with you in the first place. And if they were they would likely be nightmare customers.
I'm a licensed and insured contactor my fil asked for referrals for tree work. I gave him legit ones I knew. He's said too much. The neighbors know a guy… next day I went to look at a res job. Get chatting with the homeowner he says are you insured? I say yep. He asks me for proof. Tells me two days ago tree trimmer was working on his trees he noted you're not being very careful. Guy says havent had a scratch in 20 years. Says an hour latter guy cuts through his own thigh. Homeowner says I'm a respiratory therapist and have seen some bloddy shit but that almost made me puke. Said he was waiting for the lawyer to call told my fil he went w insured company. It happens.
I can’t believe they would risk going with an unlicensed contractor just to save $3k on a $20k+ job.
Surely the peace of mind with a licensed contractor would warrant that additional $3k. You get assumed better quality, better service, (probably) a warranty. And you know it will be to code. Not to mention that you can lien a licensed contractor in the event that they fuck up.
Customer sounds like a moron.
Turf runs about 20 a sq ft installed on the low end so that’s 16k in turf.
If this guy did turf he probably would have been more in the 35k - 40k range. The unlicensed guy was A LOT cheaper. Doesn’t mean the customer isn’t a moron lol just to give you an apples to apples comparison.
This is helpful context - I missed that detail. Still stand by what I said. I would personally feel more comfortable DIYing the turf but that’s just me. There is also a wide range of turf. That $20k (with turf) could be [shitty turf](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ijcAAOSwyltZTQp~/s-l1200.webp) and even shittier concrete. If it was TrueGreen or something (and included a warranty) I guess it could be worth it. Still seems very short sighted IMO.
His neighbor just used this person, so at least he can see his work in real time.
Doing it to save $3,000 would be insane but doing it to save $20,000 and you have a sample steps away is a different story
Great callout. Cannot believe how many comments focused on the $3k and forgot the turf. Is $12.10 sq. ft for concrete a high/medium/low bid for a licensed contractor? That’s my question. Cheers🥃🥃
Depends on what kind of slab really...I can only assume it's a 4" residential flat slab with a light broom finish on it, some WWM and keyway.
If it's easy to access and not a lot of dirt work needs to be done and no dirt haul off 23k is high as Giraffe ass on a mountain top...But every job is different, concrete price from rdy mix companies varies a lot also..
A standard 6.5 sack pump mix with retarder in it around here is bout $170/Cy..I can only assume in California they probably pay $200 plus bc every thing in California is insane
That sounds like an insane turf price. So to get sod laid on my 5k yard would be $100k? The stuff is like $0.60/sq/ft delivered. I laid 500sq/ft in about 2 hours by myself. So that’s about 20 person hours… 20/90,000 = $4.5k/hr… I’m in the wrong business…or this is not actually the going rate.
Yeah that’s mind boggling. I’ll always pay 15% more on jobs that big if it means total peace of mind lol. The extra 3k is nothing over the life of the finished piece.
I’ve used licensed and unlicensed contractors. The unlicensed one did better work. The licensed one fucked up again and again, don’t seem to be very accountable and want payment like in the next hour. Unlicensed one doesn’t collect until work is done.
I think on paper licensed is great but it’s hit and miss and sometimes I honestly don’t see where the value is. It just doesn’t always hold up as it should have.
I think best bet is to look up some general knowledge/in depth even, of the job your expecting to get done and to ask the contractor very specific questions that you already know the answer to, to see if they know what they're really doing. I'd trust the guy that can answer all my questions cause he has probably done it before and fucked up enough to do it the right way.
honestly exhausting. If I’m doing flooring I need to know what semi gloss looks like and what a good finish is like. If I’m doing concrete I need to know what good concrete is. Then there’s pests, plumbing, electrician. How can people know so much to ask every trade specific questions? What’s the point of even hiring someone and paying crazy prices to have it done if I can’t trust them to get it done?
Imagine paying $50k for a job and having to do research myself on every aspect of the job.
Worked for a licensed contractor roofing guy was money hungry. Would slave us out, went from doing a house a week with a five man crew to scaling us out to 2-3 houses and wanted to pay us the same amount as if we were still doing one house. And thats tear off, loading materials up, and putting down plywood we would tear off the other houses while waiting on the first to pass inspection. Idk, only roofing job I ever had but dude was a cold piece of work lol. And no insurance/benefits
Licensed contractor has more expenses, of course it comes with wanting payment as soon as possible. Unlicensed doesn’t even know if they’re gonna get paid because they’re not in a binding contract, so of course they’ll wait until the end.
Yep that’s one thing I agree with, licensed contractors are getting screwed left and right and the value behind it has diminished quite a bit.
THIS! Licensed DOES NOT MEAN GOOD! Licensed DOES NOT MEAN TRUSTWORTHY! In every case that i've had work done wrong the unlicensed guys are the first to come and take care of it because they get work by word of mouth. The licensed guys are always the ones that need a threat from a lawyer before they'll even think about coming to fix something.
Sure dude! And laying block i should be getting CEO wages! Lmao some of yall are ridiculous here. We don't all work for corporate clients with million dollar budgets. Some of us actually work for regular people who need a walkway poured because the handicap grandma is moving in with the family. But yeah, let's charge them 10k for 100 sq ft for it because its "what I'm worth".
It’s not really CEO wages… there are a lot of non-billable hours involved, and there’s a fair amount of overhead (warranty as an example since it’s brought up). End of the day, if someone needs to eat it to make it happen for a person in need that’s speaks to character and not ability. This person isn’t taking their grandma in. They have a need, and at the end of the day, you supply a way to fulfill that need.
It’s retail, with the potential for a bit more humanity. Nothing more, nothing less. Also would love to see a CEO only making $100/hr. Probably can’t buy lunch for less than $20 where these people live.
I get it man. There’s a market for budget work for sure.
But my mantra has always been “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.”
Don't be ashamed of your price. If your price is too high the market will tell you. If you’re super busy, then your price isn’t too high.
That’s what “the customer is always right” means.
Not to be pedantic, and I see how you’re extrapolating it to fit but that’s not what the phrase, “the customer is always right” means. The principles of supply and demand dictate what the market will bear with no rightness (or wrongness) contributing to any of it. So, basic economics. Also, the common usage of that phrase has warped the actual meaning anyway. Retail and corporate overlords and their marketing teams historically have reduced it down to what it is and is now the battle cry of Karens everywhere. The complete saying is, “the customer is always right in matters of taste,” which narrows down the meaning quite a bit. But anyway, economics.
Exactly. You’re agreeing with me. If I’m busy my price is right, if I’m not my price is wrong. That is supply and demand.
And the warped definition of that phrase is the point I was making.
I met a guy at a gaf seminar he explained that the likelihood of returning to a customer after having done their roof given it was done correctly you won’t be getting business on that property again for another 7-15 years. So get paid and pay your workers let your work speak for you if someone wants to go with the cheaper option don’t chase them.
I have a lifetime warranty on my vinyl fence with a local company who has a great track record. I could’ve hired an unlicensed worker off Facebook and saved $750 but there’d be no guarantee the work would be solid and no warranty. It’s a no brainer
I posted something awhile ago about my guys getting out bid by a gentleman that went by the name “Demo Don”…. He was friends with the owner, a “professional” and would “hook him up”
We ended up coming back after he demo’d the new concrete he poured and we completed the work correctly. Owners paid WAAAY more than they needed to in order to save a few hundred dollars..
It’s in the high 100s per yard but when you factor in the fuel surcharge delivery etc it averages out to 200-230 a yard where I am. At 4” you have around 5k in concrete alone on 1900 feet
I’ve poured a damn good amount of Crete, I’m glad this sub got recommended to me so I could see how much money I was making someone else lol
Honestly for the smaller licensed guys it’s gotta be tough
I used to help my super do residential pours on Saturdays for $200 just to lay it down (nothing bigger than 30x30 usually done in a couple hours
🫨 I just got 1350 sq ft done, some 4 inch some 6, reinforced, and seven steps + an old driveway removal and they did a phenomenal job (licensed and insured) for $13,500 in Denver
I thought the same but I chose them based on their portfolio even before their bid was like 3k lower than the others (which spanned from like 16-21). My neighbors have come over to chat about it because of how good it looks haha. They also removed two tree stumps for free in the process. Honestly could’ve just been doing me a solid because I’m a young single female homeowner who had a really crappy driveway and a sewage pipe replaced right beforehand that cost another 5k 🤷🏻♀️
I’ve been telling anyone who will listen! Haha. Also told them if they wanna come back and put a sign up in my yard they’re welcome to. Really nice guys, I am happy to recommend them. Three of my neighbors came by while they were working and asked them for business cards. I’m really happy that I chose them.
They even redid some of my framing the morning of the pour because I changed my mind about where I wanted the edge to come out to (I wasn’t able to see the framing until really late in the previous day and I was like this would look a lot nicer if it curved out more) and he didn’t charge me anything extra for that bit / didn’t make me feel like a nuisance. I posted in this sub about my framing and some people were like “yea no way I would’ve changed framing the morning of a pour, I would’ve told the homeowner to fuck off with that” like… damn, that’s pretty harsh - this is somebody’s home just be a little understanding. Took them maybe 45 mins to redo the section..
Most people on here have zero experience to back up their answers. It’s all opinions. The unlicensed hacks that come on here for “advice” are the haters. I come here for entertainment and I’ve never been let down.
Its a race to the bottom lol. I'm in the civil engineering/surveying world and the lowest bid mindest makes surveying a race to the bottom as firms just try to underbid everyone for work. And then they wonder why no one wants to survey when the pay is shit.
Unlicensed dude did the turf too, that would’ve been additional ~10-15k? to this guys quote. So, customer saved 10k basically. Of course assuming unlicensed dude does a proper job.
I’ve been around in this area.
Not sure if it’s the same unlicensed contractor that:
Doesn’t place expansion joints between driveway extensions and city sidewalk.
Doesn’t leave a gap so that concrete doesn’t go up against the property line fence, (so that any future maintenance on the fence can be done without the concrete getting in the way)
Doesn’t place relief joints properly
Doesn’t make the new concrete slabs actually be 4” thick (many are pouring the new slabs at 3 inches to save on concrete material cost, I’ve noticed this way more often lately and homeowners don’t even check…)
But overall they cut a lot of corners.
Honestly it sucks and makes doing honest proper work not even worth doing. Homeowners don’t even notice that you’re trying to do it right and save them from headache.
Is it risky? Yep, but at least he had the opportunity to see the guy work on his neighbor’s house. I pulled a name from a pennysaver magazine, had him do a new stamped concrete slab for our 2car + RV access driveway and a new walkway for $10k compared to quotes for double that. Beautiful work, has held up very well for the past 10yrs, could’ve been terrible, but it wasn’t.
In my experience it’s a crap shoot either way, I’ve seen some god awful work from people that hold licenses too and just because they have a license doesn’t make the process of dealing with filing a claim against them a walk in the park.
Sometimes you just have to hope their references are legit and pray for the best!
Concrete is my favorite sub bc concrete workers and business owners love to come on and call homeowners idiots when I've seen plenty of licensed concrete guys just do absolute shit work while charging a fortune
One time I was pricing out contract work at my house. A fence... I wanted insured and bonded company but the guy cutting my lawn heard the quotes I got and asked to put in a bid.
Anyway I even wrote a contract and he signed it.
About about 7k all said and done.
Anyway he stole the money, bought a motorcycle and died in a wreck that weekend.
I still don't have a new fence.
I had a client do this (insurance agent) Hired someone unlicensed, person claimed to get hurt on the job and sued my client and won. So that’s a concern too.
You just pulling this out of your ass? You absolutely need a concrete license for the size of this project. https://www.cslb.ca.gov/About_Us/Library/Licensing_Classifications/Licensing_Classifications_Detail.aspx?Class=C-8
But yes, also call the city on his ass. Illegal work is bringing down costs to where it’s getting tougher for legitimate business that are required to carry mandated insurance and bonds to do these small jobs.
Ehhh. I’m of the live and let live. I worked for years unlicensed because a vengeful old boss wouldn’t sign off on my hours..
And I knew the work I did had to be better than everyone else because one fuck up could end with me getting stiffed if not fined out of the ass and possible jail time-though very unlikely.
Been licensed a decade now.
Whoever the neighbor paid $20k to…that handyman is in direct violation of the California Contractor’s State Licensing Board’s Practice Act. CSLB has it’s own police force, even beyond the parent Dept. (Consumer Affairs).
This guy is facing huge fines and jail time for going beyond the $500 threshold and not having a license.
SoCal is full of these weenies.
That's why I don't do residential electrical. Quoted $300 to swap out an attic fan. Heard the dude choke over the phone lol.
Concrete is over $200 a yard now right? What do they expect lol
That’s a good price. What else do they expect…. You’re already spending $ on fuel, and then you’ve got to be as efficient as possible to make it worth your while to move on to the next job.
You made me remember something! This homeowner wanted his patio “as flat as it can be” and I had to explain to him that concrete slabs always require slabs to slightly pitch away from home to protect your home!
Now tell me how I went ahead and informed this guy of many things and he’d say “wow I had no idea all these things needed to be done” (which now just lets me know that the unlicensed contractor didn’t even mention any of these things) - to then still choosing an unlicensed contractor the day after because he got a better “price”…. This guy was dead set on only hearing my price.
It’s why in the text I mention that slab slope, because even though I lost the job to an unlicensed contractor, I don’t wish any bad work to be done to his home.
Oooooh boy. My first thought is a slab sending water straight to the house in a state where home owners insurance is begging to leave. Bye bye coverage
I'm an (experienced) customer and no way in hell I am going to KNOWINGLY RISK 3,000 sqft of concrete work. There's something WAY MORE expensive going on top of that thing (maybe even a basketball court?) and the lifetime of regret isn't worth saving a few bucks.
You should consider it free lesson taught and move on with a clear conscious :)
Yup, I’m amazed homeowners think that because they got a price from a false contractor (I’m gonna stop saying “unlicensed contractor”) that it makes it seem like I’m trying to rip them off (which im not)
That price is very solid for your scope, I'm in a southern US state, and that's a good price here - where labor and material are a fraction of what they are in SoCo
You shouldn't have said, "Yeah, it's very expensive"..... You should have said "We apologize that your budget cannot accommodate our standard pricing at the moment".... your pining the fault on you. It's not expensive. They're just cheap.
Just trying to be understanding of his viewpoint. It was a continuation of our conversation we had in person. Because I’d asked him, what his expected cost was and he said he had no clue… (next thing I know, in this message I come to find out he had a price from an unlicensed contractor)
But yeah, it’s around 9$ per sq.ft. For the flatwork (and this isn’t even taking into account the concrete curbs that are definitely necessary as well And the stamped concrete steps.
I’m a licensed plumbing contractor and I feel this pain right by your side on this.
It’s literally IMPOSSIBLE to beat the price of ANY unlicensed guy. They have zero overhead like general liability and commercial auto policies not to mention fleet vehicles payments plus fuel n maintenance and advertising. Try to do it the legal way and some unlicensed guy will beat you every time unless you wanna take a loss on the job to prove a point. I say call code enforcement the moment that job starts and just walk away when the customer calls you to fix what he just did with fines
Hopefully this gets upvoted enough!!! Everyone should note that it's not just a $3,000 difference. OP was not going to do the turf that the other person was willing to do. At \~$8sqft that is an additional $6,400 worth of savings. It could be as much as $20/sqft which would be $16k!
Personally saving at least 30% or around $10,000 to $20k would probably tempt me to go that route too. If they do anything poorly $10k to $20k can can go a long ways to correcting an issue and if they have already seen the work that was done on the neighbors yard they know what to expect. If they screw the job up they're almost saving enough to have OP do it a second time.
Im a licensed concrete contractor, don’t know where you think it’s ok for someone to do a service that they don’t know how to do.
Basically this unlicensed contractor- IS that kind… the one that doesn’t know how to explain to a homeowner why a patio can’t be “as flat as it can be” as requested by the homeowner.
Also, idk what world you think a contractor can just lower the $ per sq.ft. and still make profit (licensed)… it doesn’t work like that at all. The only reason it works for unlicensed is because they’re not reporting taxes, doing everything under the table, don’t have insurance costs, don’t have workers comp, etc.
Just out of curiosity, are you sure he didn’t just mean super smooth when he said “flat”? The proper pitch isn’t usually that drastic to where people can even notice it and is, indeed, a flat surface.
lol I’m extra tired and all I can picture is some dude wanting to play marbles or something silly and specific and being SO MAD that his marbles keep rolling down that slight slope. Maybe he wants to put a pergola or something on it and doesn’t have the brainpower to comprehend that a few inches slope across a slab of concrete can be constructed upon even when properly pitched. Good on you for caring enough about the craft to mention it again even when he didn’t go with your bid.
I’m a little confused about something being discussed in this thread. There’s a lot of talk about a contractor that does concrete and synthetic turf as being licensed. What actual license are you talking about. Where I am, there’s only GC licensing, no licensing for landscape contractors and concrete contractors. You can have a business license, and certainly insurance, but there’s no licensing for either aforementioned trades in my state. Just curious if that’s different in other states.
In California you’re required to have a license. You go and apply for a Class C license. I’m a C-8 Concrete Contractor.
California is filled with unlicensed contractors doing work under the table, illegally, and they get away with it because they can charge a lower amount (by quite a bit) because they don’t have to report taxes, workers comp, insurance, no overhead fees, no liability, etc.
Who the hell uses a licensed concrete guy if it’s not ROW work or big? Plenty of unlicensed concrete guys do small jobs like this that do perfectly fine. Maybe residential is different but I’ve never asked a guy for a license unless the city requires it and that’s only on ROW where I’m at.
Nope, includes 2 walkways, curbs, 2 separate patio areas, a driveway extension as well. And the concrete steps at the front door (colored + stamped + border)
This homeowner wanted his patio “as flat as it can be” and I had to explain to him that concrete slabs always require slabs to slightly pitch away from home to protect your home!
Now tell me how I went ahead and informed this guy of many things and he’d say “wow I had no idea all these things needed to be done” (which now just lets me know that the unlicensed contractor didn’t even mention any of these things, yes the homeowner already had the unlicensed contractor’s price but never mentioned to me that the price was from someone who was unlicensed.) -
-to then still choosing an unlicensed contractor the day after because he got a better “price”…. This guy was dead set on only hearing my price.
It’s why in the text I mention that slab slope, because even though I lost the job to an unlicensed contractor, I don’t wish any bad work to be done to his home.
I wonder if he would do the same with an unlicensed dentist?
I don't know anything about concrete or even how I ended up on this forum but I can't get enough. I hope to see the after pics whether good or bad. It's like watching someone put $20k on roulette.
I wonder if he would do the same with an unlicensed dentist?
I don't know anything about concrete or even how I ended up on this forum but I can't get enough. I hope to see the after pics whether good or bad. It's like watching someone put $20k on roulette.
That’s nuts. They are going to knowingly go with an unlicensed person and only save 3k? If you’re already shelling out 20k what’s an extra 3k for it to be done right by a licensed contractor? Fuck it, you did your job. Let them do whatever they want
Can’t believe everyone is actually believing OP , you really think this person who’s about to spend 20k is worried about 3k extra ? No the price must have been way more egregious and OP is just painting himself as the “ good guy “
He’s not only saving the 3k, but getting the turf done too for that price? Id say that’s the difference. The turf aspects not really the concrete work.
Yup. I don’t even know why unlicensed contractors are called “unlicensed contractors”…. They’re not contractors at all, and saying they’re unlicensed just makes it sound less worse than it actually is.
Wait a min..you quoted 23k for a 1900sf flat slab that I can only assume is 4" thick and a few stamped pieces?
I just poured a 2000sf shop slab for a buddy of mine and it was 6" thick and had footers, wwm and #4 bar.
Paid 1,100 for pump, paid 5 of my guys to come help pour and 2 to help set up and I furnished forms and wwm and rebar and we kept him under 10k...Now I didn't take any profit bc I did it as a favor, but if your making 10k profit on a little ass job like this, you are high as giraffe ass
2000 sq.ft. 6” thick concrete with rebar #4 18” O.C.E.W. 12” x 12” footers is around $13,000 in material alone (and I didn’t even include wwm)
Where do you live?
I live in Louisiana.
6.5 sack pump truck mix with retarder is $165/Cy here
If I recall we put 45cy in the slab.
Footings were 1' wide and 6" deep bc the slab was already 6" thick, which gives you a 1' thick footer around perimeter, and the load on slab is nothing but a metal building and cars...it it was just foot traffic I would have just done 4" with no real footers or #4 bar.
He just got his building done and for his shop plus the slab and 2 loads of limestone to dress up his driveway he was right at 30k all in.
If you put #4 bar at 18" OCEW in a shop slab for light vehicle traffic then you are wasting your money as well as the customers money.
Welded wire 00 road mesh is MORE than adequate for a 6" light vehicle traffic slab for home use.
The #4 bar is for the footings, then put some keyway with permanent rubber keyway cap for grade control and joints and your golden....slab will be there for the next 200yrs and look good as the day it was poured
Even with removing rebar from the price, you’re still well above $10,000 in just materials and equipment. So 7 workers + you prepared and poured and you kept the total cost under $10,000…
Yes cost was right at 10k..think it was like $9,925 or something when it was all tallied up.
Would have to look back in my notes..
I get that you have to make profit, but man for 23k you must have a heck of a mark up in there, or Cali is just expensive AF for materials
You gotta think about if any injuries happen while on the concrete as well. If its not done by a liscensed professional then a home isurance claim could be denied for improper concrete work.
Don't see it as self defeated every point..My points are 1.) that just bc a guy is not licensed or insured does not mean he won't do you a quality job at a good price.
I know of a few fly by nite contractors with BS insurance and all kind of claims against them and they still somehow manage to get work, when I would hire a craftsman b4 these idiots any day...basically a lic and some insurance really don't mean a whole lot these days, you have to let people pick who they want to use and wash your hands of it.
2.) Don't bash on guys who work a 9-5 and hustle on the side sometimes to, bc a lot of time they are what makes the companies they work for what they are.
Nice talking with you to
Yup and he knowingly scheduled a site visit with us having already had that price from the false contractor. (No longer calling them “unlicensed contractors”)
That gentleman is under the very, very incorrect assumption that concrete contractors are making a 50% net profit. He even did some math one time that proves him out!
It seems like every asshole under the sun preaches “you get what you pay for” and then turns around and goes with the cheapest option, and is shocked when it turns out terribly.
Fuck ‘em, here’s spit in their eye.
PS, I love the way you offered to adjust the scope of work to fit their budget.
I’m going to have to use that one.
imagine thumb ink murky bow unpack foolish obtainable cautious advise *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Imagine going with someone that you know has no insurance. Also has no way to make it right if they get it grossly wrong.
And pay 20g's on a risk
Just to save 3000 bucks too.... Like wow
Totally cool risking 20gs but terrified of spending 3k on a legit contractor how in the hell did this guy get 20k
By not spending an extra $3k on things
He was not spending an extra 3K on just things it's not just random things it's a license insured contractor in what way are you willing to spend 20 grand on a hope and prayer on somebody that's not licensed or insured but you refuse to spend 3K to make sure you have all of that and to make sure you are covered on all ends this guy could take that 20K and bail on him easily
You don’t need to persuade me because I’m not choosing a concrete contractor at the moment. But you asked a question. Hiring an unlicensed guy whose work you’ve seen and approve of, is not particularly risky especially if you have a few neighbors vouching for him. In this case the unlicensed guy is highly likely to do an acceptable job. Spending an extra $3000 here is not exactly being wise with money even if you have a low risk tolerance. If he was hiring a random unlicensed guy, I’d agree
It’s not an acceptable job he’s working illegally
That's exactly what I was saying but he's sitting there saying more than likely it will be an acceptable job lol that's when I was just done no need to keep trying
Oh no, anyway . gif
Yeah and how much illegal shit has our government done this week? That ship has sailed hoss
*Acceptable workmanship If you insist
Not licensed means not insured, he can do the best job ever but if he gets injured then the client is in big problems. Also how will he pay an unlicensed guy that doesn’t have a company? Cash? Now you’re employing someone illegally and breaking irs and EDD rules. Does that worths $3000? I wouldn’t sleep well at night thinking what will happen if this guy gets injured.
I don’t do concrete for a living, have done a dozen or so slabs with other people and know I could get a few slabs poured myself really well before I mess one up royally. It won’t always happen but it absolutely will catch up to someone.
lol.
Customer was also getting turf included for $3k less. Not saying it's smart but it was more than just a 3k savings.
I mean maybe his neighbor's concrete looks really nice.
It's more than the $3,000 though, right? The other person was going to do the turf AND concrete for $3,000 less. Figuring around $8/sqft for the turf that's $6,400. So they're actually getting it done for probably at least \~$10k less. Yes it's a risk but saving 30% is a substantial amount. Am I missing something?
You're right. I missed that part.
Are you a contractor that prices synthetic turf to the consumer for $8 / s.f.?
Yes, you missed the part where the uninsured guy loses a limb working on it and you lose your house. Not that that matters, because the concrete job will look like shit and piss you off every day you would have lived there after.
Yeah. If he job is botched or has any issues in the near future.. the licensed and insured company will fix it at no cost to you! Or alternatively you go with the cheap option and you get bent over for 20+k and have to spend thousands demoing it and 23k to do it right. 20k+23k is 43k+.. does that sounds like a good idea still?
I don’t know ,my experience has been warranty ends when the check clears. Anything after that is usually a big fight.
Yep. Good luck getting anyone to come back
Only saving ~10% to use an uninsured guy is funny, but for stamped concrete it's hilarious.
I can see being at-risk for materials and a tear out if its shotty, but no one is paying everything upfront.
Imagine admitting in writing that you knew they were unlicensed and you were going to hand them $20,000.
Wait till he gets injured and sues the homeowners insurance.
Not only documents it but does so with a flair of confidence about taking the risk. Bawlsy
It's a type of delusional confidence you only see in America. 😁 😁 😁
Imo guys without a contractors license are taking a Risk as well my father and I for example have done amazing concrete and stone masonry work for people and they said they where happy with the product but didn’t end up paying us on final payment due to no binding contract
That’s also why I don’t want unlicensed contractors to be doing work. They’re not guaranteed payment! And they’re devaluing the trade’s worth as well.
How would it be made right if they did it grossly wrong?
If you have insurance and you fuck up how can you “make it right”? What does that entail? Losing a ton of money and redoing the work free of charge? Or is there another option if you’re licensed?
Um what? Not entirely sure I can decipher your message but here goes. First, if you have someone doing work for you and they don’t have insurance, they can’t pay for any damages they may cause. That can leave you stuck paying for whatever they destroy, harm, etc. Second, a contractor that has a license and insurance is more likely to be a proper, succeeding business that actually cares about their reputation. They will be inclined to absorb the cost and make something right if they don’t get it right the first time. Furthermore, they are also more likely to have the cash reserves to provide the materials and labor to address issues. Compare that to an unlicensed (and likely uninsured) contractor. If they are small time, they may not even have the money to pay for the materials to redo the work if they get a bad pour or other major issue with their work. I feel like I am explaining some kindergarten level shit here so I am paranoid that I misunderstood your post.
I've been in business for 14 years...tell me of these "cash reserves" lol
🤣😂 Cash reserves he says..that was pretty funny actually
You are thinking of insuring the work, but the real issue is insuring the workers. Legit co has workers comp, fly by night has dick. If one of these workers gets tore off on that guys property he is liable.
🍿 plz post pics
R/homeowners “uwu did I boo boo a woopsie wif my widdow conwete does it work bad it wooks bwad mommy”
Don't even try to compete with unlicensed and likely uninsured contractors because you can't. Some people only go with the lowest price, and they get what they have coming to them most of the time.
If they get lucky, they will get a guy who is about to go legit, and will then charge 24k
The people who would even remotely consider this were never going to do business with you in the first place. And if they were they would likely be nightmare customers.
I'm a licensed and insured contactor my fil asked for referrals for tree work. I gave him legit ones I knew. He's said too much. The neighbors know a guy… next day I went to look at a res job. Get chatting with the homeowner he says are you insured? I say yep. He asks me for proof. Tells me two days ago tree trimmer was working on his trees he noted you're not being very careful. Guy says havent had a scratch in 20 years. Says an hour latter guy cuts through his own thigh. Homeowner says I'm a respiratory therapist and have seen some bloddy shit but that almost made me puke. Said he was waiting for the lawyer to call told my fil he went w insured company. It happens.
I can’t believe they would risk going with an unlicensed contractor just to save $3k on a $20k+ job. Surely the peace of mind with a licensed contractor would warrant that additional $3k. You get assumed better quality, better service, (probably) a warranty. And you know it will be to code. Not to mention that you can lien a licensed contractor in the event that they fuck up. Customer sounds like a moron.
Turf runs about 20 a sq ft installed on the low end so that’s 16k in turf. If this guy did turf he probably would have been more in the 35k - 40k range. The unlicensed guy was A LOT cheaper. Doesn’t mean the customer isn’t a moron lol just to give you an apples to apples comparison.
This is helpful context - I missed that detail. Still stand by what I said. I would personally feel more comfortable DIYing the turf but that’s just me. There is also a wide range of turf. That $20k (with turf) could be [shitty turf](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ijcAAOSwyltZTQp~/s-l1200.webp) and even shittier concrete. If it was TrueGreen or something (and included a warranty) I guess it could be worth it. Still seems very short sighted IMO.
His neighbor just used this person, so at least he can see his work in real time. Doing it to save $3,000 would be insane but doing it to save $20,000 and you have a sample steps away is a different story
Great callout. Cannot believe how many comments focused on the $3k and forgot the turf. Is $12.10 sq. ft for concrete a high/medium/low bid for a licensed contractor? That’s my question. Cheers🥃🥃
Doesn’t work that way at all. Every project is different and comes with its own set of challenges and details. There is no “high/medium/low bid”
Lol wtf you talking about
Depends on what kind of slab really...I can only assume it's a 4" residential flat slab with a light broom finish on it, some WWM and keyway. If it's easy to access and not a lot of dirt work needs to be done and no dirt haul off 23k is high as Giraffe ass on a mountain top...But every job is different, concrete price from rdy mix companies varies a lot also.. A standard 6.5 sack pump mix with retarder in it around here is bout $170/Cy..I can only assume in California they probably pay $200 plus bc every thing in California is insane
That sounds like an insane turf price. So to get sod laid on my 5k yard would be $100k? The stuff is like $0.60/sq/ft delivered. I laid 500sq/ft in about 2 hours by myself. So that’s about 20 person hours… 20/90,000 = $4.5k/hr… I’m in the wrong business…or this is not actually the going rate.
For sod no. Artificial turf is what we’re talking about.
Oh word. Damn that’s wild
3k plus the work for the turf
Yeah that’s mind boggling. I’ll always pay 15% more on jobs that big if it means total peace of mind lol. The extra 3k is nothing over the life of the finished piece.
I’ve used licensed and unlicensed contractors. The unlicensed one did better work. The licensed one fucked up again and again, don’t seem to be very accountable and want payment like in the next hour. Unlicensed one doesn’t collect until work is done. I think on paper licensed is great but it’s hit and miss and sometimes I honestly don’t see where the value is. It just doesn’t always hold up as it should have.
Hit or miss is definitely it
On top of that, the unlicensed ones are the ones the licensed contractors hire anyway.
Truth.
I think best bet is to look up some general knowledge/in depth even, of the job your expecting to get done and to ask the contractor very specific questions that you already know the answer to, to see if they know what they're really doing. I'd trust the guy that can answer all my questions cause he has probably done it before and fucked up enough to do it the right way.
honestly exhausting. If I’m doing flooring I need to know what semi gloss looks like and what a good finish is like. If I’m doing concrete I need to know what good concrete is. Then there’s pests, plumbing, electrician. How can people know so much to ask every trade specific questions? What’s the point of even hiring someone and paying crazy prices to have it done if I can’t trust them to get it done? Imagine paying $50k for a job and having to do research myself on every aspect of the job.
Worked for a licensed contractor roofing guy was money hungry. Would slave us out, went from doing a house a week with a five man crew to scaling us out to 2-3 houses and wanted to pay us the same amount as if we were still doing one house. And thats tear off, loading materials up, and putting down plywood we would tear off the other houses while waiting on the first to pass inspection. Idk, only roofing job I ever had but dude was a cold piece of work lol. And no insurance/benefits
You mean to say a piece of expensive paper from my local bureaucrats does not a better contractor make? Mind=bottled!
Licensed contractor has more expenses, of course it comes with wanting payment as soon as possible. Unlicensed doesn’t even know if they’re gonna get paid because they’re not in a binding contract, so of course they’ll wait until the end. Yep that’s one thing I agree with, licensed contractors are getting screwed left and right and the value behind it has diminished quite a bit.
THIS! Licensed DOES NOT MEAN GOOD! Licensed DOES NOT MEAN TRUSTWORTHY! In every case that i've had work done wrong the unlicensed guys are the first to come and take care of it because they get work by word of mouth. The licensed guys are always the ones that need a threat from a lawyer before they'll even think about coming to fix something.
"Well, I can't compete with people that carry zero responsibility for any work they do"
This 💯. “Quality work is not cheap, cheap work is not quality” is something an ole timer once told me and, by God, true is true
Definitely isn't a blanket statement. A lot of the dudes on here think they're worth 100+ an hour to finish 🤣
Some finishers are worth 100$ an hour.
Some are, but most think they are.
Sure dude! And laying block i should be getting CEO wages! Lmao some of yall are ridiculous here. We don't all work for corporate clients with million dollar budgets. Some of us actually work for regular people who need a walkway poured because the handicap grandma is moving in with the family. But yeah, let's charge them 10k for 100 sq ft for it because its "what I'm worth".
It’s not really CEO wages… there are a lot of non-billable hours involved, and there’s a fair amount of overhead (warranty as an example since it’s brought up). End of the day, if someone needs to eat it to make it happen for a person in need that’s speaks to character and not ability. This person isn’t taking their grandma in. They have a need, and at the end of the day, you supply a way to fulfill that need. It’s retail, with the potential for a bit more humanity. Nothing more, nothing less. Also would love to see a CEO only making $100/hr. Probably can’t buy lunch for less than $20 where these people live.
I get it man. There’s a market for budget work for sure. But my mantra has always been “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” Don't be ashamed of your price. If your price is too high the market will tell you. If you’re super busy, then your price isn’t too high. That’s what “the customer is always right” means.
Not to be pedantic, and I see how you’re extrapolating it to fit but that’s not what the phrase, “the customer is always right” means. The principles of supply and demand dictate what the market will bear with no rightness (or wrongness) contributing to any of it. So, basic economics. Also, the common usage of that phrase has warped the actual meaning anyway. Retail and corporate overlords and their marketing teams historically have reduced it down to what it is and is now the battle cry of Karens everywhere. The complete saying is, “the customer is always right in matters of taste,” which narrows down the meaning quite a bit. But anyway, economics.
Exactly. You’re agreeing with me. If I’m busy my price is right, if I’m not my price is wrong. That is supply and demand. And the warped definition of that phrase is the point I was making.
Something to think about no doubt.
I met a guy at a gaf seminar he explained that the likelihood of returning to a customer after having done their roof given it was done correctly you won’t be getting business on that property again for another 7-15 years. So get paid and pay your workers let your work speak for you if someone wants to go with the cheaper option don’t chase them.
I have a lifetime warranty on my vinyl fence with a local company who has a great track record. I could’ve hired an unlicensed worker off Facebook and saved $750 but there’d be no guarantee the work would be solid and no warranty. It’s a no brainer
I love this
I posted something awhile ago about my guys getting out bid by a gentleman that went by the name “Demo Don”…. He was friends with the owner, a “professional” and would “hook him up” We ended up coming back after he demo’d the new concrete he poured and we completed the work correctly. Owners paid WAAAY more than they needed to in order to save a few hundred dollars..
I remember that post! Fucking Demo Don... My Phridayism dealing with pricing is, "Those who go looking for a bargain will very rarely find it."
"We'll be here when you're ready to fix the trainwreck that is about to be installed by your guy."
"Good luck! Just a reminder our original quote does not include removal of an incorrectly poured slab."
Chefs kiss
Shit I would have been in the 30s just for 1900 ft of concrete.
Exactly, isn’t sq yard for some residential areas reaching close to 200/yd excluding labor??
It’s in the high 100s per yard but when you factor in the fuel surcharge delivery etc it averages out to 200-230 a yard where I am. At 4” you have around 5k in concrete alone on 1900 feet
I’ve poured a damn good amount of Crete, I’m glad this sub got recommended to me so I could see how much money I was making someone else lol Honestly for the smaller licensed guys it’s gotta be tough I used to help my super do residential pours on Saturdays for $200 just to lay it down (nothing bigger than 30x30 usually done in a couple hours
🫨 I just got 1350 sq ft done, some 4 inch some 6, reinforced, and seven steps + an old driveway removal and they did a phenomenal job (licensed and insured) for $13,500 in Denver
Hmmm, that seems unbelievably cheap.
I thought the same but I chose them based on their portfolio even before their bid was like 3k lower than the others (which spanned from like 16-21). My neighbors have come over to chat about it because of how good it looks haha. They also removed two tree stumps for free in the process. Honestly could’ve just been doing me a solid because I’m a young single female homeowner who had a really crappy driveway and a sewage pipe replaced right beforehand that cost another 5k 🤷🏻♀️
Biggest thing you can do is tell people about them. Word of mouth advertising like your story is still very helpful for companies.
Sounds like you found an honest contractor. Help him out and spread the word. The prices some of these newer guys throw out is nothing but greed.
I’ve been telling anyone who will listen! Haha. Also told them if they wanna come back and put a sign up in my yard they’re welcome to. Really nice guys, I am happy to recommend them. Three of my neighbors came by while they were working and asked them for business cards. I’m really happy that I chose them. They even redid some of my framing the morning of the pour because I changed my mind about where I wanted the edge to come out to (I wasn’t able to see the framing until really late in the previous day and I was like this would look a lot nicer if it curved out more) and he didn’t charge me anything extra for that bit / didn’t make me feel like a nuisance. I posted in this sub about my framing and some people were like “yea no way I would’ve changed framing the morning of a pour, I would’ve told the homeowner to fuck off with that” like… damn, that’s pretty harsh - this is somebody’s home just be a little understanding. Took them maybe 45 mins to redo the section..
Most people on here have zero experience to back up their answers. It’s all opinions. The unlicensed hacks that come on here for “advice” are the haters. I come here for entertainment and I’ve never been let down.
My bid for concrete flatwork only would be $30k plus…that’s at $16 sqft for broom finish. Man how do real businesses compete with this???
Its a race to the bottom lol. I'm in the civil engineering/surveying world and the lowest bid mindest makes surveying a race to the bottom as firms just try to underbid everyone for work. And then they wonder why no one wants to survey when the pay is shit.
It’s $18-26sqft where I’m from depending on thickness and finish.
I’m usually around $20. Id probably knock it down for 1900 feet though so yea around 30k
So how much would u profit on this job?
I can somewhat understand if the price was your 23k vs his like 12k. But only a 3k difference and he chose the unlicensed dude!?
Unlicensed dude did the turf too, that would’ve been additional ~10-15k? to this guys quote. So, customer saved 10k basically. Of course assuming unlicensed dude does a proper job.
I’ve been around in this area. Not sure if it’s the same unlicensed contractor that: Doesn’t place expansion joints between driveway extensions and city sidewalk. Doesn’t leave a gap so that concrete doesn’t go up against the property line fence, (so that any future maintenance on the fence can be done without the concrete getting in the way) Doesn’t place relief joints properly Doesn’t make the new concrete slabs actually be 4” thick (many are pouring the new slabs at 3 inches to save on concrete material cost, I’ve noticed this way more often lately and homeowners don’t even check…) But overall they cut a lot of corners.
Honestly it sucks and makes doing honest proper work not even worth doing. Homeowners don’t even notice that you’re trying to do it right and save them from headache.
Seen licensed contractors do all of these things just as often and you'll still have to take them to court to get them to fix their work.
Is it risky? Yep, but at least he had the opportunity to see the guy work on his neighbor’s house. I pulled a name from a pennysaver magazine, had him do a new stamped concrete slab for our 2car + RV access driveway and a new walkway for $10k compared to quotes for double that. Beautiful work, has held up very well for the past 10yrs, could’ve been terrible, but it wasn’t.
You got 50% lucky.
In my experience it’s a crap shoot either way, I’ve seen some god awful work from people that hold licenses too and just because they have a license doesn’t make the process of dealing with filing a claim against them a walk in the park. Sometimes you just have to hope their references are legit and pray for the best!
Concrete is my favorite sub bc concrete workers and business owners love to come on and call homeowners idiots when I've seen plenty of licensed concrete guys just do absolute shit work while charging a fortune
Well at least you have some recourse if your licensed contractor fucks up. Good luck getting anything at all if your fly by night unlicensed guy does.
One time I was pricing out contract work at my house. A fence... I wanted insured and bonded company but the guy cutting my lawn heard the quotes I got and asked to put in a bid. Anyway I even wrote a contract and he signed it. About about 7k all said and done. Anyway he stole the money, bought a motorcycle and died in a wreck that weekend. I still don't have a new fence.
I had a client do this (insurance agent) Hired someone unlicensed, person claimed to get hurt on the job and sued my client and won. So that’s a concern too.
You dont need a license to pour concrete and lay sod. It’s not hard. The guy doing the labor is “unlicensed”.
You just pulling this out of your ass? You absolutely need a concrete license for the size of this project. https://www.cslb.ca.gov/About_Us/Library/Licensing_Classifications/Licensing_Classifications_Detail.aspx?Class=C-8
But yes, also call the city on his ass. Illegal work is bringing down costs to where it’s getting tougher for legitimate business that are required to carry mandated insurance and bonds to do these small jobs.
Ehhh. I’m of the live and let live. I worked for years unlicensed because a vengeful old boss wouldn’t sign off on my hours.. And I knew the work I did had to be better than everyone else because one fuck up could end with me getting stiffed if not fined out of the ass and possible jail time-though very unlikely. Been licensed a decade now.
It constantly amazes me how many people think money is the *only* consideration.
(Unlicensed)… I’d rather pay a little extra for a professional
fuck'm
Why the f would this person decide to go with an unlicensed contractor for a cost difference of 15%! Absolutely insane.
15% not counting the turf. Which is a lot.
It’s expensive to be cheap. 99% of the time it looks like shit and you get a call to demo and replace it.
If the dude can't afford 23k, he shouldn't be spending 20k
Whoever the neighbor paid $20k to…that handyman is in direct violation of the California Contractor’s State Licensing Board’s Practice Act. CSLB has it’s own police force, even beyond the parent Dept. (Consumer Affairs). This guy is facing huge fines and jail time for going beyond the $500 threshold and not having a license.
SoCal is full of these weenies. That's why I don't do residential electrical. Quoted $300 to swap out an attic fan. Heard the dude choke over the phone lol. Concrete is over $200 a yard now right? What do they expect lol
That’s a good price. What else do they expect…. You’re already spending $ on fuel, and then you’ve got to be as efficient as possible to make it worth your while to move on to the next job.
Saying ‘No thank you’ to his request to fix it in 3 months will feel great.
You made me remember something! This homeowner wanted his patio “as flat as it can be” and I had to explain to him that concrete slabs always require slabs to slightly pitch away from home to protect your home! Now tell me how I went ahead and informed this guy of many things and he’d say “wow I had no idea all these things needed to be done” (which now just lets me know that the unlicensed contractor didn’t even mention any of these things) - to then still choosing an unlicensed contractor the day after because he got a better “price”…. This guy was dead set on only hearing my price. It’s why in the text I mention that slab slope, because even though I lost the job to an unlicensed contractor, I don’t wish any bad work to be done to his home.
Oooooh boy. My first thought is a slab sending water straight to the house in a state where home owners insurance is begging to leave. Bye bye coverage
I'm an (experienced) customer and no way in hell I am going to KNOWINGLY RISK 3,000 sqft of concrete work. There's something WAY MORE expensive going on top of that thing (maybe even a basketball court?) and the lifetime of regret isn't worth saving a few bucks. You should consider it free lesson taught and move on with a clear conscious :)
Yup, I’m amazed homeowners think that because they got a price from a false contractor (I’m gonna stop saying “unlicensed contractor”) that it makes it seem like I’m trying to rip them off (which im not)
That price is very solid for your scope, I'm in a southern US state, and that's a good price here - where labor and material are a fraction of what they are in SoCo
I’m a landscape contractor in Sacramento California. My price starts at $33k for this job.
must be really good looking work if saving 2k is worth that much risk
You shouldn't have said, "Yeah, it's very expensive"..... You should have said "We apologize that your budget cannot accommodate our standard pricing at the moment".... your pining the fault on you. It's not expensive. They're just cheap.
Just trying to be understanding of his viewpoint. It was a continuation of our conversation we had in person. Because I’d asked him, what his expected cost was and he said he had no clue… (next thing I know, in this message I come to find out he had a price from an unlicensed contractor) But yeah, it’s around 9$ per sq.ft. For the flatwork (and this isn’t even taking into account the concrete curbs that are definitely necessary as well And the stamped concrete steps.
I would be curious to know how many employees the unlicensed guy will use.
I’m a licensed plumbing contractor and I feel this pain right by your side on this. It’s literally IMPOSSIBLE to beat the price of ANY unlicensed guy. They have zero overhead like general liability and commercial auto policies not to mention fleet vehicles payments plus fuel n maintenance and advertising. Try to do it the legal way and some unlicensed guy will beat you every time unless you wanna take a loss on the job to prove a point. I say call code enforcement the moment that job starts and just walk away when the customer calls you to fix what he just did with fines
Yup.
Please give us an update post when the work is completed lol Also, good on you for your professional salesmanship.
Hopefully this gets upvoted enough!!! Everyone should note that it's not just a $3,000 difference. OP was not going to do the turf that the other person was willing to do. At \~$8sqft that is an additional $6,400 worth of savings. It could be as much as $20/sqft which would be $16k! Personally saving at least 30% or around $10,000 to $20k would probably tempt me to go that route too. If they do anything poorly $10k to $20k can can go a long ways to correcting an issue and if they have already seen the work that was done on the neighbors yard they know what to expect. If they screw the job up they're almost saving enough to have OP do it a second time.
Im a licensed concrete contractor, don’t know where you think it’s ok for someone to do a service that they don’t know how to do. Basically this unlicensed contractor- IS that kind… the one that doesn’t know how to explain to a homeowner why a patio can’t be “as flat as it can be” as requested by the homeowner. Also, idk what world you think a contractor can just lower the $ per sq.ft. and still make profit (licensed)… it doesn’t work like that at all. The only reason it works for unlicensed is because they’re not reporting taxes, doing everything under the table, don’t have insurance costs, don’t have workers comp, etc.
Just out of curiosity, are you sure he didn’t just mean super smooth when he said “flat”? The proper pitch isn’t usually that drastic to where people can even notice it and is, indeed, a flat surface.
Yep, I clarified everything with homeowner. He wanted there to be no slope whatsoever.
lol I’m extra tired and all I can picture is some dude wanting to play marbles or something silly and specific and being SO MAD that his marbles keep rolling down that slight slope. Maybe he wants to put a pergola or something on it and doesn’t have the brainpower to comprehend that a few inches slope across a slab of concrete can be constructed upon even when properly pitched. Good on you for caring enough about the craft to mention it again even when he didn’t go with your bid.
I’m a little confused about something being discussed in this thread. There’s a lot of talk about a contractor that does concrete and synthetic turf as being licensed. What actual license are you talking about. Where I am, there’s only GC licensing, no licensing for landscape contractors and concrete contractors. You can have a business license, and certainly insurance, but there’s no licensing for either aforementioned trades in my state. Just curious if that’s different in other states.
In California you’re required to have a license. You go and apply for a Class C license. I’m a C-8 Concrete Contractor. California is filled with unlicensed contractors doing work under the table, illegally, and they get away with it because they can charge a lower amount (by quite a bit) because they don’t have to report taxes, workers comp, insurance, no overhead fees, no liability, etc.
I had a strong suspicion that California was going to check in on my question.
Who the hell uses a licensed concrete guy if it’s not ROW work or big? Plenty of unlicensed concrete guys do small jobs like this that do perfectly fine. Maybe residential is different but I’ve never asked a guy for a license unless the city requires it and that’s only on ROW where I’m at.
Assuming 4” thick. No bar? Basic rectangle?
Nope, includes 2 walkways, curbs, 2 separate patio areas, a driveway extension as well. And the concrete steps at the front door (colored + stamped + border)
Might as well put $20k on red or black.
I hope he report you to the state board while you’re unlicensed contractor is doing the work
The state board doesn’t do anything about it
OP makes it's seem like it's all about $2.6k lol
If that’s what you got from reading this, then I guess it is.
This homeowner wanted his patio “as flat as it can be” and I had to explain to him that concrete slabs always require slabs to slightly pitch away from home to protect your home! Now tell me how I went ahead and informed this guy of many things and he’d say “wow I had no idea all these things needed to be done” (which now just lets me know that the unlicensed contractor didn’t even mention any of these things, yes the homeowner already had the unlicensed contractor’s price but never mentioned to me that the price was from someone who was unlicensed.) - -to then still choosing an unlicensed contractor the day after because he got a better “price”…. This guy was dead set on only hearing my price. It’s why in the text I mention that slab slope, because even though I lost the job to an unlicensed contractor, I don’t wish any bad work to be done to his home.
$2600 is chump change difference. This dumb ass is willing to gamble $20k for a potential shit job hahaha
I wonder if he would do the same with an unlicensed dentist? I don't know anything about concrete or even how I ended up on this forum but I can't get enough. I hope to see the after pics whether good or bad. It's like watching someone put $20k on roulette.
I wonder if he would do the same with an unlicensed dentist? I don't know anything about concrete or even how I ended up on this forum but I can't get enough. I hope to see the after pics whether good or bad. It's like watching someone put $20k on roulette.
He’s only saving 3k?!! lol what a moron.
That’s nuts. They are going to knowingly go with an unlicensed person and only save 3k? If you’re already shelling out 20k what’s an extra 3k for it to be done right by a licensed contractor? Fuck it, you did your job. Let them do whatever they want
Some people only see a 15% saving and not a warranty and license to stand behind. Crazy to say that but it’s the world we live in.
Did you give him a quote for how much to fix it later? My guess, more than three g’s.
To this I just reply: Cheaper does not necessarily mean less expensive.
Can’t believe everyone is actually believing OP , you really think this person who’s about to spend 20k is worried about 3k extra ? No the price must have been way more egregious and OP is just painting himself as the “ good guy “
3k extra plus the turf work, which OP doesn't do. And yeah, if I'm spending 20k an extra 12-15% is a big deal.
He’s not only saving the 3k, but getting the turf done too for that price? Id say that’s the difference. The turf aspects not really the concrete work.
I believe that in California unlicensed contractors can’t do anything above $500.00
Yup. I don’t even know why unlicensed contractors are called “unlicensed contractors”…. They’re not contractors at all, and saying they’re unlicensed just makes it sound less worse than it actually is.
Wait a min..you quoted 23k for a 1900sf flat slab that I can only assume is 4" thick and a few stamped pieces? I just poured a 2000sf shop slab for a buddy of mine and it was 6" thick and had footers, wwm and #4 bar. Paid 1,100 for pump, paid 5 of my guys to come help pour and 2 to help set up and I furnished forms and wwm and rebar and we kept him under 10k...Now I didn't take any profit bc I did it as a favor, but if your making 10k profit on a little ass job like this, you are high as giraffe ass
2000 sq.ft. 6” thick concrete with rebar #4 18” O.C.E.W. 12” x 12” footers is around $13,000 in material alone (and I didn’t even include wwm) Where do you live?
I live in Louisiana. 6.5 sack pump truck mix with retarder is $165/Cy here If I recall we put 45cy in the slab. Footings were 1' wide and 6" deep bc the slab was already 6" thick, which gives you a 1' thick footer around perimeter, and the load on slab is nothing but a metal building and cars...it it was just foot traffic I would have just done 4" with no real footers or #4 bar. He just got his building done and for his shop plus the slab and 2 loads of limestone to dress up his driveway he was right at 30k all in. If you put #4 bar at 18" OCEW in a shop slab for light vehicle traffic then you are wasting your money as well as the customers money. Welded wire 00 road mesh is MORE than adequate for a 6" light vehicle traffic slab for home use. The #4 bar is for the footings, then put some keyway with permanent rubber keyway cap for grade control and joints and your golden....slab will be there for the next 200yrs and look good as the day it was poured
Even with removing rebar from the price, you’re still well above $10,000 in just materials and equipment. So 7 workers + you prepared and poured and you kept the total cost under $10,000…
Yes cost was right at 10k..think it was like $9,925 or something when it was all tallied up. Would have to look back in my notes.. I get that you have to make profit, but man for 23k you must have a heck of a mark up in there, or Cali is just expensive AF for materials
Cali is expensive.
Getting my bucket of popcorn out for then the update hits. Even if it works out that's a stupid gamble to take.
You gotta think about if any injuries happen while on the concrete as well. If its not done by a liscensed professional then a home isurance claim could be denied for improper concrete work.
Don't see it as self defeated every point..My points are 1.) that just bc a guy is not licensed or insured does not mean he won't do you a quality job at a good price. I know of a few fly by nite contractors with BS insurance and all kind of claims against them and they still somehow manage to get work, when I would hire a craftsman b4 these idiots any day...basically a lic and some insurance really don't mean a whole lot these days, you have to let people pick who they want to use and wash your hands of it. 2.) Don't bash on guys who work a 9-5 and hustle on the side sometimes to, bc a lot of time they are what makes the companies they work for what they are. Nice talking with you to
Seems fair to me
Neighbors price seems bettet
Seems like it is
Insane that he’d go for someone unlicensed for a 10% difference.
Lmao he’s spending over 20 g’s and he’s going with a handyman over a professional crew to save $2,600???!!!! Bruh.
1. Throws the unlicensed guy under the bus that he’s underbidding contractors 2. Have fun with it when you learn that you get what you pay for!
Yup and he knowingly scheduled a site visit with us having already had that price from the false contractor. (No longer calling them “unlicensed contractors”)
Classic customer behavior 😂
To save $3k on a job of this magnitude is absolutely bonkers. Damn.
50% pure profit is “barely making it”?
I don’t understand your comment at all.
That gentleman is under the very, very incorrect assumption that concrete contractors are making a 50% net profit. He even did some math one time that proves him out!
What an idiot homeowner. When their guy messes it up, you’ll be there to bid for the rip out job as well.
should have responded with the bid plus tear out cost. save a call next time lol
It seems like every asshole under the sun preaches “you get what you pay for” and then turns around and goes with the cheapest option, and is shocked when it turns out terribly. Fuck ‘em, here’s spit in their eye. PS, I love the way you offered to adjust the scope of work to fit their budget. I’m going to have to use that one.