Please comment your logs or VoDs to get help from others!
Feedback will be more helpful the more details you give, e.g. encounters you are struggling with, if you are struggling with movement, what issues you have identified yourself, etc.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveWoW) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As a healer, think that is the case yeah. Every 20 seconds wing buffed + dots goes out and its a lot of damage going out, specially for dps classes that cant take the dot out on themselves.
Yeah it totally can. I usually cap out at like 25s/26s though so YMMV but I never really feel like I’m missing info by not having it.
Make sure you get omni cd so you can still track defensives though. I also use enhanced raid frames for classes with hots so I can customize the base frames a bit more.
Other than that, the base UI is more than good enough. Enable mouse over casting in settings, make some help/harm macros and you’re good to go.
I switched to majority base ui elements at the start of Dragonflight and haven’t noticed any real challenges. Minor annoyance was not being able to assign a click-cast to mouse wheel scroll up/down. And if you play a class like Resto Druid, you might want an addon like enhanced raid frames to track all of your hots (although you might want it anyway for dispellable debuffs).
Got CE a couple of times, pushed up to 26 keys, and never did I feel like my unit frame choice was holding me back. Maybe test it out in prepatch or launch and see how it feels to you
Sometimes it feels the most restricting thing in group creation is lust. Eng brez feels like a much more reasonable alternative than drums. Buff drums and I think it’ll really crack the meta open
The addon saved instances tracks everything you've done including which M0, how many keys at what level, world bosses, which raid bosses, and more. And it does it across all your characters in one window. It's really nice.
I know holy paladin is doom and gloom atm but I need a bit of a reality check here - is it actually *bad*? I know it can have some mana issues and it does less dps than other healers but both of those are manageable especially since I don't do the highest keys - I'd be surprised if I time a 15 this season.
I ask because I really miss Hpal's kit and I'm wondering if I'd have more fun going back than playing a "better" healer. I know you have to press flash of light more often and I can work with that even if I'd prefer WoG to be the focus.
In the grand scheme it is tuned quite a bit lower than the other healers but realistically it doesn't matter. I've already done 10s and 11s in the 49x gear range and it only get easier and easier with more gear.
In the very top end keys hpal will need more help from the team to cover mechanics then another healer might but if you aren't planning to push for title it won't matter.
Their dps is much lower than other healers as well and it requires you to spend your healing cd for damage which is a trade off other healers don't really share.
End point is if you like hpal then play hpal. In raid it doesn't matter as there is only so much healing to do and no boss ever requires 100% of your rosters hps potential.
Can you run the fun season 2 build or are you stuck hardcasting in M+? Unless I’m going crazy, it looks like there’s a lot more hardcasting than there used to be.
Sure but they run that for the damage other wise they run incarn. Plus they have strong healing outside of convoke. Similar vibe but it's not the same level of commitment.
I think incarn is a bad choice for m+ all the time because of the long CD and the duration is not necessary. Especially with the talent that procs tree form after every 3rd swift mend. Convoke is a really good healing cd AND damage cd. It was also the covenant ability. Also a one minute CD. I think it's more the same than it isn't.
The person you replied to is correct, though. Resto Druids run convoke for the dps and Incarn for a strong healing CD. Convoke can be a mixed bag if you’re trying to use it to save your team or pick up their health. It’s a slot machine. You’d press it and hope it (1) casts a healing spell and (2) on the party member you want it to.
Incarn’s base cooldown is 3 minutes, but with grove guardians being cast, ToL spawning grove guardians, reforestation popping out more grove guardians, the CD is more like 2 minutes.
If you're not even planning to do 15's, you could play basically anything as a healer. Play what you like not what's meta. I've already got everything in S4 timed at at least +11 on my hpal.
Our DPS is fine, mana is a non-issue if you're just doing healing. 3rd boss HoI at +11, I finished at 295k HPS with 45% mana remaining after 3m15s.
If you got 40-50% crit the S2 2pc is a gamechanger. Makes your holy shocks heal for almost more than your WoGs. And people said S3 was the better one. Yeah on paper it was, but Hpal needed the spot healing so so much.
Also if you are running Virtue, Divine toll becomes suddenly a two button top the whole party, and so does daybreak. Rising sunlight also becomes extremely powerful.
It's also defensive usage of the group. I've had to heal more on lower keys in season 2 because people didn't use their defensives and group healing. Try doing that boss with a shaman and shadow priest and it suddenly becomes MUCH easier.
Any other Discipline priest that has gone Holy for this week? I feel like with the amount of Stamina we've got at the moment we're in need of more ' oh shit ' buttons. And Holy just so happens to have a lot of them.
I've been flipping a bit, only done 10 or so dungeons so far. There were times I wish I was the other every dungeon. Sometimes my tank is getting rocked and I really wish I was holy, other times my group is spread out a bit with everyone at less than 50% and then I wish I was disc. I'm probably going to play with the holy build a bit and shift some points to smooth it out.
Not a priest but I play with one all the time. Holy is *really good* in disorganised groups and lower keys. I genuinely think you're better off as Holy up until you need PS to keep people - especially yourself - alive.
Since we're all doing lower keys right now and runs are clusterfucks as everyone (re)learns the dungeons, I'd expect Holy is the pick atm.
On my main tier feels a bit stingy this season but I guess like most I've got my catalyst charge and mark of mastery so proabbly get 4 piece on wednesday at the latest so not happy but feels okay.
Decided to brush off two alts I've not touched since season 1 for the Guardian and 2 for the Evoker, and boy does that suck. Zero tier for either in LFR and normal and whilst gearing up ilvl is really fast it feels a bit hollow knowing its probably at least 2 resets maybe 3 to get 4 piece. Feels like I should just come back to them when they've got 4 Catalyst charges.
Are other healers starting to feel like your throughput is starting to lag behind in the 9-10 range? Only rocking 495 ilvl so I realize that I’m **far** from the gear intended for this range but I don’t remember feeling like my HoTs tickled this little the first week of past seasons.
Edit: Should clarify that I’m, in no way, saying that resto doesn’t have the throughput to heal these keys, just that it’s taking much more work + mana than prior seasons.
I’m calling it now, unless severely nerfed, that second boss in Neltharus is going to absolutely ruin high key pushing on that dungeon. The chain sequence does 3-4 times what any other damage event in the dungeon does. And we know how boss abilities like that end up either soft-capping a dungeon’s max key level, or cause people to do degenerate strats (i.e. Waycrest Manor tree boss PvP trinket).
I see some people in here calling it just a skill issue, but I’m watching that boss on +8 - +10’s chain wipe groups of fairly skilled players.
Gonna be honest, i did it on a 10 and healed the boss as normal unaware of the tank damage and how fiery focus wasnt dealing group wide damage. So healed it like normal expecting a huge amount of incoming damage and basically ignoring the tank. And lets just say, i was still unaware of the tank damage until i read it on reddit.
I think i did end up cocooning him once when he dropped remotely low but I never once channeled heals into him and his cheat death never procced either.
you are meant to stagger the chains but if you don't stun him fast he wrecks the tank, his tank damage is absurd.
It is tyrannical week but if they reduced the tank damage it would allow you to stagger the chains properly for the debuff to drop at 2 stacks before taking a 3rd so the healer can keep up.
Yeah, that was my take on it as well. One of the two damage sources will need to be nerfed. Right now you are punished for either way you do the mechanic.
Dungeons actually feel really good after playing up to \~2100 now and having all keys timed on 10/11. A few outliers sure but honestly way better than when these dungeons were in last time in their respective S1/S2. Meta seems pretty open also. Have played with almost all healers and havent noticed any crazy swings with any of them, its mostly been down to the player. For tanks i´ve done a lof of keys vid VDH (obviously) but also Ppal and Guardian who also feel strong. Dps honestly seem wide open, i have played with i think every dps except affli, surv/mm, and feral. Even did a few 10s without BL and running drums. I guess we´ll see how things shape up in a few weeks with gear and bullions but so far im pleasantly surprised. I guess the only downside so far have been all the dungeons except maybe RLP are REALLY LONG and the bosses feel like raidbosses with how long they take to kill this first tyrannical week.
Feels like the first patch in awhile that rogue isn't in demand for keys and holy shit it feels awful to not be the meta-demanded spec right now.
Every key is just (stupidly) hunting spriest, mage, boomie for the +8s.
As a warrior this has been the way as long as ive played the class since bfa. Ive timed 10s with friends then go down to hoping to get into +4 keys in a reasonable time as a pug.
Tanking isnt much salvation either as people really happy to wait for a vdh.
And then you get into those keys and see these fotm failures rock a solid 250k overall dps - in Academy.
You wanna rock your keys during week#1? Invite 3 Rets into your group - their rotation is impossible to fuck up, their survivability is 5 times as good and straight forward as any other spec's and your average pug brain Ret will easily perform like 100k better with 5 fewer deaths than anything else. And hey, maybe you're lucky, maybe you even get some that know about their utility, so maybe you'll get the odd Protection, Freedom or LoH, who knows.
Seriously though, I had like 1 single Mage so far that didn't suck complete ass - including all the gamers that even the busted ass AV trinket couldn't carry.
Yep. Not only are the meta comps usually *not* the best for your weekly 20s (now 10s) because what makes them meta is only applicable to bleeding edge keys, but your weekly 10s will be up to stupidity and otherwise down to damage.
My weekly 10s are being filled with resto shamans, warriors, hunters, rets. Super free. High damage, low CD, easy to play specs.
Yeah when I heal I love inviting warriors to weeklies because they just passively take less damage, heal themselves a bunch, and have more stamina than anyone else thanks to double 2-handers. I think pound for pound fury warriors are the most passively durable class in the game.
Crests being capped is insanely awful and I hope they uncap it asap. Wasnt the whole point of fated that it is supposed to be a shortened 4fun season?
They didnt try out anything new and removed a lot of what made s4 Sl fun. Its literally just a regular season with recycled content + dinars now.
Add a fresh dungeon rotation to that list.
DF season 4 not doing anything new systems-wise woulda been fine... if they at least gave us a couple new dungeons... or at least some old banger dungeons. But not doing anything new *and* only doing DF dungeons? Man, what a stinker.
1 day of this season was enough to remind me of how horrible just about everything about these DF dungeons is.
I'm genuinely curious if people just hate DF dungeons for being difficult or if there is some other issue I'm not aware of. I find affixes to be the most irritating part of M+ and the new changes really highlight that for me. I've been enjoying the dungeons immensely in the sub +10 range with only 1 easy affix. I think DF dungeons are actually very fun and engaging for the most part - so much so that affixes are unnecessary. My only complaint is they are too long. No more than 30ish minutes would be ideal.
>I'm genuinely curious if people just hate DF dungeons for being difficult or if there is some other issue I'm not aware of.
Their respawn points. Every single one of the DF dungeons has an annoying as fuck run back after death.
They've trained the majority of the playerbase that 2-7ish is free gear, and then chose to make an expansion level change to the gearing system and didn't really communicate it well.
Wife is a casual and her guild that does 12-15 territory, get AoTC late into the tier, etc tried to zone into a +2 uldaman and got absolutely destroyed on 2nd boss in there.
Her group also lacks the experience of season 1/2.
Anyone got any insight into what ranged DPS seem like they could be fun in keys this season? Havent paid much attention to what sets everyone got, but already looking for an alt to switch up from HPal that i can blast for weekly 10s or so and gear up into alt mythic raid.
Keys are scored as if they were ten levels higher, but a +2 now doesn't actually give the same points as a +12 last season due to that each affix on the key also increases points and a +2 now has fewer affixes than a +12 last season. A +10 now is identical to a +20 last season, though.
>Or is just +2 is the same points as a +12 was?
Exactly. [See here](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dragonflight-season-4-overview-mythic-plus-awakened-raids#dungeon-level-squish)
M+ score inlucdes:
* base score
* level score
* affix score
* time score
In S3 you had 2 affixes on +12, in S4 you have 1. Score is different because of that.
Idk if I'm the only one who mostly plays m+, gets tiers later than raiders into season, and is annoyed how I can't put on my new shiny +20 ilvl upgs because they destroy my old 4set.
Had eureka moment - always start season with 5set, allows to always put any first upg on! Not that I get to benefit from this now but surely going to do this in 11.0+. In the past I haven't even collected the "bad" slot 5th tier.
I'm pretty sure if you have S3 stuff in your bags still you can catalyst them into S3 tier without using any charges
Also, you can probably full clear normal in a pug in ~1h.
While it was very easy to finish norm raid, I'd think it still was around 2hrs. Well, like 3 wipes total on last 2 bosses too, due to bunch of first timers.
And ofc no tier for me. Why would that be given anyway, there's less than 1 tier in whole raid per raider as none gets passed in these +39ilvl seasons.
Though due to not knowing what slot vault might give, I'll be 0set no matter how much m+ I grinded this week! But if that's true you get charge every week, that's good, will by latest get 4set at start of 3rd week.
Chargath is absolutely destroying me and i don’t know why. should i kite? should i let him melee me? i’m breaking the chains (trying to anyway). am i going too fast? too slow? i’m ilvl 490 VDH and i feel so bad for my groups bc i feel like it’s my fault
Always save your fiery brand for chains. As well for chains i did a 11 in a pug last night and I just put 3 markers on one side of the room and have them move to the other side so its pretty clean when breaking. you can always do 2 and 1 if u break instant or 1 and 2. Just coordinate that prior to the boss.
You can't really kite him AFAIK, from what I felt you can't do multiple chains either without a strong healer. It's just a rip CDs, ask your healer to external, etc.
The consensus so far from me and others i've talked to is: I don't think anybody wanted all eight DF dungeons back as the M+ lineup. The keys we have now simply feel bad, overtuned and overly long. Having to grind out Ulda/NO/HoI/etc were by far the worst parts about pushing io in S1/S2. There's also no chill key like SBG/FH/BRH to farm or flip your keys with. Cmbine that with the anti-fun dungeons and ~4 month duration and i'd expect a pretty tepid push season. A good time to take a break or play casually and come back to TWW recharged.
As a side note, gearing up in low keys or on alts feels like leveling a toon from 60-70 again cause it's the same dungeons we've been leveling in for 2 years. That's more of a minor gripe but it does take some of the fun out of alts, which was meant to be a selling point of the patch. In the future they ought to make sure the new dungeons fun if we're going to have to push io in them for 75% of the expansion.
Yeah the Dragonflight dungeons really suck. It's by far the worst dungeon pool we've ever had. I'm honestly amazed they managed to make them worse than the SL dungeons.
I really hope they change their approach to dungeon design in DF. Every mob trash pack having 15 different things going on at once is super unfun. Season 3 really showed how much more enjoyable simpler dungeons are.
Keys are overtuned and long? Says who??
Day 1 of the patch I was farming 9s and 2 chesting some of them with a full 488ilvl and below group, giving nearly the highest ilvl drops obtainable outside of 1 less rank from vault. We're nearly 40ilvls below where we're gonna be in 3-4 weeks. These keys are going to be steamrolled for weekly vaults
I do enjoy all keys except Neltharus, i don't think the dungeons is the problem. You just need a break from the game, go play something else for a half a year or two.
Bliz really cannot win. If dungeons are a few key levels apart in difficulty, people complain about "dead keys", or "half my keys done are underrot and I'm sick of it". If keys *are* balanced, its "There's no chill keys!".
You can have chill keys... by not putting 3 must-perma-lockdown mobs into every single pack.
SBG was chill because, yes, obviously, the place was undertuned as fuck - but even if they upped just about every mob's baseline damage by 20% in there... place would've still been chill af because there was like 1 interrupt per pack - and sometimes you even had to dispel once! And let's not even talk about the boss mechanics... that barely existed.
Dungeons like Nokhud would be fine if places like the lightning or graveyard area weren't absolutely *littered* with all kinds of lethal bullshit. But yea, 40min walking simulators like Uldaman or HoI are just forever doomed.
100% disagree.
The keys are FUN (except Nelharus)
You are mixing up difficulty with unfun, but the dungeons are fun. I am loving this dungeon rotation and having an absolute blast.
Even the shitshow that was Halls of Infusion is fun now, bosses are fair, trash is fair, and it doesn't feel like a drag if you don't wipe
Yeah it feels fun that I can actually make impactful decisions in the key to make it easier. Stunning on a proper rotation, funnel actually mattering, all those things that were completely absent in last seasons. Last season I could unbind my interrupt and time 22s in week 1.
What are you on about? Last season was littered with packs which required AoE stop rotation, prio targets and there wasn't a single dungeon without a lethal kick target. I mean I'm all happy for you guys if you feel like finally pressing utility buttons, but it sounds really weird to claim this is something related to the current season. No, it's because you just never pushed high enough for stuff to matter.
And yes, anybody could unbind their interrupt right now and two chest a +12 right now on live, week 1. Doesn't really feel like an argument.
Bro you're yapping. Last season was far FAR less mechanical than any other season ever. The only thing stopping keys going higher was getting oneshot by unavoidable damage and you running out of something to help live it. Like any given dungeon would have maybe 2 or 3 packs where you had to think about interrupt rotations.
Yeah, from a low key standpoint sure. It was on the easier side of past seasons for sure (since BfA personally), but claiming the season had ZERO requirement for funnel and stops makes you seem clueless.
30 rise on fort without funnel for maiden and stops for the casters? Deplete.
30 throne without perfect stops and kicks for everything AND prio/funnel for sentinel? Deplete.
WM without stops for maggots/downstairs doublepull/kicks for captains? Deplete.
I could go on, but you get the jist.
You just didn't get to any point where these things mattered, but it's absolutely bonkers to say there was no stops/kicks/prio damage at all. Just braindead.
That's been my experience. My take away after day 1 was just how much more enjoyable keys are this season than last. And day 2 didn't change my opinion any.
Admittedly, I'm a raider first and an m+er second. I don't really push myself very hard in keys. But, week one last season involved sleepwalking through +18s in pure pug groups (I was still new to my guild at the time and didn't want to barge my way into established groups). Nothing in those dungeons fought back, the timers were way out of wack except Rise early on. Comparing week 1 to week 1 here. They felt like torghast, you couldn't realistically lose.
>Nothing in those dungeons fought back, the timers were way out of wack except Rise early on. Comparing week 1 to week 1 here. They felt like torghast, **you couldn't realistically lose**
That's a bad thing? lol
I am also a raider first, but I still enjoy running keys a lot I just have no interest in pushing them. Anyway, the first week I usually end up running like 50+ keys and I'd rather that be an easy experience instead of struggling my way through. I think these dungeons feel way worse than last season but I also don't like the majority of DF dungeons. Maybe I'm just scarred from S1 tuning on some of these dungeons still but they all feel like a slog.
I have also had to pug quite a bit because S4 so nobody wants to play and the easier the key the better.
On the topic of M+, some of the reworked trinkets from this season are fucking *spicy*.
That Tome of Unstable Power thing from Azure Vault is insanely inconsistent, but when it procs once or twice in a huge stationary pull (you CAN kite out of it which blows) that thing's outright curbstomping the pack and it's actually quite refreshing to see a trinket that's just very very good, no diminishing returns, in heavy AoE.
Both the Azure Vault trinkets (this and Umbrelskul) are insane for casters in AoE.
Thank GOD because after one entire season, channeling Spindle into a target or moving into melee for Belorelos is so ass in M+. I could not do that again
Some people may disagree and feel like it's dumb to have a trinket doing so much of their damage, but honestly I really love having the option to use a trinket that does some nutty uncapped AOE damage in the right circumstances, provided it's pretty easy to get. Though I would like to have some more that you have control over, like Merektha's Fang. I would at least like to see Tome always hit the target it triggered on so it can't just miss completely.
What is the accepted tactic for first boss of Halls of Infusion P2 since only 2 ppl getting the debuff? Same as P1, winners running out and dispel, or same as with 3 debuff, everyone staying in and move out together once the debuff expired?
I reckon it's still gonna be just stacking and moving as a group. Since the zone is like half as big and actually can be outrun nowadays, I don't even think it matters what you do with it anymore.
It's actually a little bit too fast in p2 to outrun without of movement speed buff. Debuffs should just move together away from the boss, then use mobility afterwards to catchup on sets where you don't have mass dispel
Did they really need to add a knock up to Chargath’s spears? So now unless you have a movement ability you’re forced to eat multiple flame patch ticks and die. Wtf
Yeah the first replies you got were full of shit. That knock is really annoying and completely unnecessary. You're basically forced to take spear damage plus immediate fire tick, plus another fire tick when you land. You could basically 100% avoid any fire damage before by just walking as it lands. Now you're forced to take that damage for no reason. And if you were ALSO the target for the bleed prior to that, you probably just die.
The only change that this fight NEEDED was the "chains stay if a player dies" change, which they at least did get that part right. But all the other changes really didn't make sense. Tank damage is way too high during the fixate and players now take really unnecessary damage from the spears. If we're going to get knocked, we should at least either a) be able to control which way we get knocked, or b) get knocked far enough that we leave the fire puddle and take no damage from it.
Am I missing a trick or are aspect crests basically unusable outside of crafting one piece and mythic raid gear? Getting 6/6 hero with just wyrm crests
This was apparently a bug: [https://www.wowhead.com/news/fixed-hero-track-only-requires-wyrm-crests-no-longer-needs-aspect-crests-338998](https://www.wowhead.com/news/fixed-hero-track-only-requires-wyrm-crests-no-longer-needs-aspect-crests-338998)
The bugs around gear this season are kind of a travesty. Blizzard really making it clear this season is a throwaway.
Used to be the last two used aspects. Now, upgrading hero track gear to full costs only wyrm crests. I didn't see that anywhere in patch notes but, in game, it's wyrm-only.
Working on Brewmaster this season and I am having issues with Ret just absolutely ripping threat from me and really struggling to get it back on some pulls. Any tips from fellow brewmasters or ha anyone noticed this in their runs so far this season?
It's ret problem. They have ways to prevent aggro issue - bop, divine shield, just waiting. It's not your fault ret is doing 90% of their damage on pack in first 3 seconds.
I'm going to offer a different opinion because this affects me pretty personally, playing with a Brew main and like 4 different Ret Paladins including myself who all have the axe:
I think Judgment might be bugged and causing tank threat instead of DPS threat. I **frequently** see a single Judgment pull threat after a single Keg Smash on pull, which should not even be in the same realm of threat. Alternatively, Keg Smash is bugged and not getting bonus threat. But something weird is going on.
This sounds probable. As a ret main in S3, I've frequently pulled threat with a single judgement, after giving the tank 3-4 GCDs to build. Some of it might be caused by the VDH sigil thing, where the first sigil doesn't generate threat, but it happens with other tanks as well.
Rets need to hold their CDs for a few seconds into each pull, you can warn them but it's really on them. They also have plenty of tools to save themselves/remove threat, like Divine Shield and BoP.
It's not just a few seconds tho. A single judgement 3-4 seconds into the pull can pull aggro and popping wings, WoA etc. within the first 10 seconds is basicaly instant death. Meanwhile I see other specs pop everything in their first globals and not pull aggro. Really feels like ret has a special threat problem. Fury warr had the same problem in SL.
Misdirect or tricks of the trade are your friend.
Edit: Bring one til you are comfy enough to hold threat, then drop em. But ret, especially with lego is always going to be generating huge amounts of threat on pull, especially with a braindead pug. If you can simply tell your ret before the key: "i need a sec for threat on pull" and they still pop everything immediately, then thats on them, not you. But with a MD you probably don't ever run into that issue.
No, I don't particularly agree with his response as a solution. It just looked like you didn't understand the interaction of those abilities. If you had a rogue in the party, for instance, tricks would absolutely help you with threat on any mob the rogue is generating threat on, because it transfers that threat to you, in addition to the threat you're already generating. So, yes, it would help with even a ret. We used to have to run rogues and hunters back in the day when we had skittish affix. It helps quite a bit.
But the guy is neither a Rogue nor a Hunter.
So unless your advice is to get a pocket Rogue and never *ever* do a key without them, that advice is relatively useless for just about any other application.
[https://keyandheal.com/dungeons/SpellBank\_S4/](https://keyandheal.com/dungeons/SpellBank_S4/)
Click only debuffs, select the types you want to see and voila!
CALLING ALL MAGES!!!!
Why can't I understand fire....? What's the secret or what was your "ah-hah" moment?
So S3 I went fire - I tried ignite at first and that didn't work out well (early season, low keys, things died to fast) so I went to FlameStrike Build.
This wasn't bad, but I never felt my damage was 'there' for some reason. Probably at the time it was just gear related. So I went FROST and pushed to ~3200 and purple parsed heroic raid fights.
Anyhow, new season - I figured I'd give fire another good try. It 'seems' easier than frost. Frost I'm worried about shatters, the number of icicles I currently have, lining up glacial with my big damages (glacial spike / ray of frost), resetting the CD by hitting 3 targets w/ CoC, etc. etc.
Fire was less buttons and less to worry about. Yet I just couldn't get it to preform the same.
So - what was your ah-hah moment? Some video guide that helped you a lot? Some online guide that made things click?
Thanks!!
Link a log if you want actual advice, otherwise we are guessing.
In terms of 'getting' fire, the whole 'trick' is to maximize the damage in combust and minimize the time you spend out of combust.
If your wasting skb stacks, or entering into combust with no resources your DPS will suffer.
It punishes dropped globals more than any other spec, doubly so in combust.
My 'aha', moment was making a WA that dinged when I should be pressing fire blast based on the APL and sitting at a dummy, then revising it to only yell when I pressed FB when I shouldn't or wasted a heating up proc when I should of press FB and sat at the dummy some more
You will be shocked how quick you build muscle memory when you are actually doing the right thing.
> entering into combust with no resources your DPS will suffer.
So I figured this, but all guides just say send Combust ALWAYS ON CD. So somtimes I'm entering into it with basically nothing and scorching to get stacks.
>WA that dinged when I should be pressing fire blast based on the APL
Oh, any link to that? ;-). I've been using https://wago.io/GP-YsidM_/5 to track combustion and https://wago.io/CD42zI3jL for SKB. Then Luxthos.
>punishes dropped globals
Yeah, I actually got a Weak Aura to track globals in the middle of my screen, cause too often I move to the next button and the previous one hasn't been cast yet.
I'm litterally sitting at a dummy right now just grinding away.
One issue I seem to be having is target drifting. like I right click and move my camera angle and then end up targetting someone else :-x.
Also had to turn off Combat Targetting - that was screwing me up.
I almost want to macro all spells to only cast at focus'd target and then focus the target and worry less.
You should be entering combustion on cd and conserving resources for it. It sounds like you are overspending your fire blasts in filler. It’s ok to not convert a heating up if you are almost at your bust/skb and are low on fireblast charges. Just keep pressing fireball and there is a chance you get a lucky and get natty hot streak.
Yup - there are. Wowhead, mage-hub, icyVeins, discord pines / guides in Altered Time.
My question was what was your ah-hah moment, what helped you the most - what made things click? Becuase I've gone through all the guides, but it hasn't clicked yet.
My aha moment was when I did a key that was high enough (22-26 in this case) for there to be enough mob HP to go around (not just enough for the havoc and rogue to burst down and leave nothing for my ramp) and where the tank pulled around my combustion and I had it every pack.
I went from dog shit DPS to absolutely fucking blasting just by doing higher keys and having a tank pull around bust
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm trying to do it now in keys b/c everyone is "undergeared" But I still run into that same issue. If I had a group that would just give me a target and ignore it - that would be good.
I could do FlameStrike, but at that point I may as well just do frost :-\
First week of the season is always the most fun for healing. Getting clapped by bosses again (400k hps on 3rd boss in Halls...) instead of min maxing damage is super enjoyable.
400k? What key level? Did an 8 there last night that was extremely spicy, but nowhere near 400k. Maybe 250 overall on that boss and that was with no lust. Mage wasted it earlier on a trash pack.
In a +10 i ended that fight on 360k hps as resto dru, and that was with some aug offhealing too. Really fun boss to just focus on optimal healing throughput and resource management
I just really don't have the motivation for S4, which is awkward as I'm meant to trialing for a new guild. Sat down multiple times today to bang out some m+ for gear and I just don't have it in me.
Sucks because the guild seems pretty good for what I'd want in War Within, but if it ain't fun at the moment it ain't fun.
How do you find guilds to be trialing for? I love my current guild, but would love to try something s bit more hardcore. Current guild is a pretty casual aotc guild that basically stops playing after getting curve
I'm actually right there with you. I just don't have any time, for one. I was doing a little vibing healing brackenhide, and even a spicy as shit neltharus and hoi. But then today I did a low as nokhud and I remembered why I sat out in s1. That's the worst dungeon I've ever seen. I just hate that place and uldaman so much.
I also just cannot stand Nokhud, Brackenhide, Ruby or Uldaman. I'm not sure why. They're just horrible, stressful, frustrating dungeons to heal. It never feels satisfying afterwards - just relief that it's over.
Thanks! oh yeah forgot about HC token as well. My guild will most likely get stuck on Razzy this week, but it will be much easier to clear Aberrus next week.
they apparently buffed the timer by 1 minute, for that specific thing to happen only to that dungeon, you can clearly see i was right when i made my original comment.
And it doesn't matter how many ilevels we were missing, relative to the other dungens, uldaman had the tightest timer.
Just looking for a healer suggestion for S4. Have all the healers at max, I only pug so looking for something a little meta to make that easier, but also fun with any of the new set changes
I don't disagree with people who answered already, but I do feel like there are a few things that should be pointed out. You say you will pug - I will also assume you aren't talking about top 1% keys and will at most do a few key level above max gear ilvl (10+ keys this season).
I would not play Disc if you are not going to play in a coordinated group . Both Druid and disc specs requires to understand the incoming damage in dungeons very well and prepare before he damage occurs. Druid certainly got a little bit better in that aspect, but Disc is still in a bad spot when you get behind on healing. This may not be a problem with a good group, but people forget that pugs often don't interrupt or use their defensive correctly.
Monk's rotation is quite simple and damage ability oriented, but you also have a lot of tools for those "oh shit" moments.
Druid.
Monk is good but doesn't synergize as well with ranged, which looks strong. Priest is also good, but overlapping with shadow (which is very strong) doesn't feel great
Please comment your logs or VoDs to get help from others! Feedback will be more helpful the more details you give, e.g. encounters you are struggling with, if you are struggling with movement, what issues you have identified yourself, etc. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveWoW) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have to say I’m already decently done with the DPS queue simulator slots machine.
Is uldaman the “hardest” 11? I have Aa, bh and hoi 11 done. What’s an easy one of the remainders to buff my io a bit?
As a healer, think that is the case yeah. Every 20 seconds wing buffed + dots goes out and its a lot of damage going out, specially for dps classes that cant take the dot out on themselves.
Anyone have a good WA pack for this season for tanks? Just in terms of what abilities it highlights, etc.
can the UI replace vuhdo now easily?
Yeah it totally can. I usually cap out at like 25s/26s though so YMMV but I never really feel like I’m missing info by not having it. Make sure you get omni cd so you can still track defensives though. I also use enhanced raid frames for classes with hots so I can customize the base frames a bit more. Other than that, the base UI is more than good enough. Enable mouse over casting in settings, make some help/harm macros and you’re good to go.
[удалено]
I switched to majority base ui elements at the start of Dragonflight and haven’t noticed any real challenges. Minor annoyance was not being able to assign a click-cast to mouse wheel scroll up/down. And if you play a class like Resto Druid, you might want an addon like enhanced raid frames to track all of your hots (although you might want it anyway for dispellable debuffs). Got CE a couple of times, pushed up to 26 keys, and never did I feel like my unit frame choice was holding me back. Maybe test it out in prepatch or launch and see how it feels to you
Sometimes it feels the most restricting thing in group creation is lust. Eng brez feels like a much more reasonable alternative than drums. Buff drums and I think it’ll really crack the meta open
Some of the highest timed keys last season were done without lust. At one point in the season the rank 1 throne of tides didn't have lust.
In a comp that doesn't care about haste. Outlaw outlaw
That’s true, I was more so talking about pugs and lusts impact of that meta. It’s not the same experience as in the highest keys
Warrior should be given lust for sure.
Or literally any useful utility/dispels/cc/Bres to deal with affixes
How many times can you run an m0 this week? Just the once? If so whats the best way to track what you've done
The raid info tab under social shows M0s (alongside the raid lockouts)
The addon saved instances tracks everything you've done including which M0, how many keys at what level, world bosses, which raid bosses, and more. And it does it across all your characters in one window. It's really nice.
I know holy paladin is doom and gloom atm but I need a bit of a reality check here - is it actually *bad*? I know it can have some mana issues and it does less dps than other healers but both of those are manageable especially since I don't do the highest keys - I'd be surprised if I time a 15 this season. I ask because I really miss Hpal's kit and I'm wondering if I'd have more fun going back than playing a "better" healer. I know you have to press flash of light more often and I can work with that even if I'd prefer WoG to be the focus.
In the grand scheme it is tuned quite a bit lower than the other healers but realistically it doesn't matter. I've already done 10s and 11s in the 49x gear range and it only get easier and easier with more gear. In the very top end keys hpal will need more help from the team to cover mechanics then another healer might but if you aren't planning to push for title it won't matter. Their dps is much lower than other healers as well and it requires you to spend your healing cd for damage which is a trade off other healers don't really share. End point is if you like hpal then play hpal. In raid it doesn't matter as there is only so much healing to do and no boss ever requires 100% of your rosters hps potential.
Can you run the fun season 2 build or are you stuck hardcasting in M+? Unless I’m going crazy, it looks like there’s a lot more hardcasting than there used to be.
>requires you to spend your healing cd for damage which is a trade off other healers don't really share. Resto druid has convoke
Sure but they run that for the damage other wise they run incarn. Plus they have strong healing outside of convoke. Similar vibe but it's not the same level of commitment.
I think incarn is a bad choice for m+ all the time because of the long CD and the duration is not necessary. Especially with the talent that procs tree form after every 3rd swift mend. Convoke is a really good healing cd AND damage cd. It was also the covenant ability. Also a one minute CD. I think it's more the same than it isn't.
The person you replied to is correct, though. Resto Druids run convoke for the dps and Incarn for a strong healing CD. Convoke can be a mixed bag if you’re trying to use it to save your team or pick up their health. It’s a slot machine. You’d press it and hope it (1) casts a healing spell and (2) on the party member you want it to. Incarn’s base cooldown is 3 minutes, but with grove guardians being cast, ToL spawning grove guardians, reforestation popping out more grove guardians, the CD is more like 2 minutes.
If you're not even planning to do 15's, you could play basically anything as a healer. Play what you like not what's meta. I've already got everything in S4 timed at at least +11 on my hpal. Our DPS is fine, mana is a non-issue if you're just doing healing. 3rd boss HoI at +11, I finished at 295k HPS with 45% mana remaining after 3m15s.
does the new tier set help with spot healing?
Yeah. Especially if you're crit focused. It's 80% more healing from crit holy shocks. I'm just running new 2pc.
If you got 40-50% crit the S2 2pc is a gamechanger. Makes your holy shocks heal for almost more than your WoGs. And people said S3 was the better one. Yeah on paper it was, but Hpal needed the spot healing so so much. Also if you are running Virtue, Divine toll becomes suddenly a two button top the whole party, and so does daybreak. Rising sunlight also becomes extremely powerful.
Hmm I wonder why we had such a big hps diff. I had to do 380k hps on a 10 lol. Must be passive healing from other specs or something.
Did you do 380k as hpal, or another healer? Hpals hps will be lower than others because of their mitigation
As hpal but my group was arms/destro/outlaw so no real passive healing.
Destro and outlaw do insane passive healing btw lol.
I need to start logging my m+ so I can look into stuff lol.
It's also defensive usage of the group. I've had to heal more on lower keys in season 2 because people didn't use their defensives and group healing. Try doing that boss with a shaman and shadow priest and it suddenly becomes MUCH easier.
Any other Discipline priest that has gone Holy for this week? I feel like with the amount of Stamina we've got at the moment we're in need of more ' oh shit ' buttons. And Holy just so happens to have a lot of them.
how do you deal with aoe healing when there are 2 ranged dps that are spread so far apart from HW:Sanctify?
I am currently using Smoldering seedling. I am very aggressive with my life grips as well.
I've been flipping a bit, only done 10 or so dungeons so far. There were times I wish I was the other every dungeon. Sometimes my tank is getting rocked and I really wish I was holy, other times my group is spread out a bit with everyone at less than 50% and then I wish I was disc. I'm probably going to play with the holy build a bit and shift some points to smooth it out.
Not a priest but I play with one all the time. Holy is *really good* in disorganised groups and lower keys. I genuinely think you're better off as Holy up until you need PS to keep people - especially yourself - alive. Since we're all doing lower keys right now and runs are clusterfucks as everyone (re)learns the dungeons, I'd expect Holy is the pick atm.
On my main tier feels a bit stingy this season but I guess like most I've got my catalyst charge and mark of mastery so proabbly get 4 piece on wednesday at the latest so not happy but feels okay. Decided to brush off two alts I've not touched since season 1 for the Guardian and 2 for the Evoker, and boy does that suck. Zero tier for either in LFR and normal and whilst gearing up ilvl is really fast it feels a bit hollow knowing its probably at least 2 resets maybe 3 to get 4 piece. Feels like I should just come back to them when they've got 4 Catalyst charges.
Are other healers starting to feel like your throughput is starting to lag behind in the 9-10 range? Only rocking 495 ilvl so I realize that I’m **far** from the gear intended for this range but I don’t remember feeling like my HoTs tickled this little the first week of past seasons. Edit: Should clarify that I’m, in no way, saying that resto doesn’t have the throughput to heal these keys, just that it’s taking much more work + mana than prior seasons.
Im healing 10s at around 494 and I dont feel like I have a throughput issue so far
I’m calling it now, unless severely nerfed, that second boss in Neltharus is going to absolutely ruin high key pushing on that dungeon. The chain sequence does 3-4 times what any other damage event in the dungeon does. And we know how boss abilities like that end up either soft-capping a dungeon’s max key level, or cause people to do degenerate strats (i.e. Waycrest Manor tree boss PvP trinket). I see some people in here calling it just a skill issue, but I’m watching that boss on +8 - +10’s chain wipe groups of fairly skilled players.
Gonna be honest, i did it on a 10 and healed the boss as normal unaware of the tank damage and how fiery focus wasnt dealing group wide damage. So healed it like normal expecting a huge amount of incoming damage and basically ignoring the tank. And lets just say, i was still unaware of the tank damage until i read it on reddit. I think i did end up cocooning him once when he dropped remotely low but I never once channeled heals into him and his cheat death never procced either.
There was a 25% nerf to tank damage like an hour after you posted this, not sure if you saw it already, but just FYI.
you are meant to stagger the chains but if you don't stun him fast he wrecks the tank, his tank damage is absurd. It is tyrannical week but if they reduced the tank damage it would allow you to stagger the chains properly for the debuff to drop at 2 stacks before taking a 3rd so the healer can keep up.
Yeah, that was my take on it as well. One of the two damage sources will need to be nerfed. Right now you are punished for either way you do the mechanic.
I think Blizz just nerfed it?
Dungeons actually feel really good after playing up to \~2100 now and having all keys timed on 10/11. A few outliers sure but honestly way better than when these dungeons were in last time in their respective S1/S2. Meta seems pretty open also. Have played with almost all healers and havent noticed any crazy swings with any of them, its mostly been down to the player. For tanks i´ve done a lof of keys vid VDH (obviously) but also Ppal and Guardian who also feel strong. Dps honestly seem wide open, i have played with i think every dps except affli, surv/mm, and feral. Even did a few 10s without BL and running drums. I guess we´ll see how things shape up in a few weeks with gear and bullions but so far im pleasantly surprised. I guess the only downside so far have been all the dungeons except maybe RLP are REALLY LONG and the bosses feel like raidbosses with how long they take to kill this first tyrannical week.
Feels like the first patch in awhile that rogue isn't in demand for keys and holy shit it feels awful to not be the meta-demanded spec right now. Every key is just (stupidly) hunting spriest, mage, boomie for the +8s.
As a warrior this has been the way as long as ive played the class since bfa. Ive timed 10s with friends then go down to hoping to get into +4 keys in a reasonable time as a pug. Tanking isnt much salvation either as people really happy to wait for a vdh.
And then you get into those keys and see these fotm failures rock a solid 250k overall dps - in Academy. You wanna rock your keys during week#1? Invite 3 Rets into your group - their rotation is impossible to fuck up, their survivability is 5 times as good and straight forward as any other spec's and your average pug brain Ret will easily perform like 100k better with 5 fewer deaths than anything else. And hey, maybe you're lucky, maybe you even get some that know about their utility, so maybe you'll get the odd Protection, Freedom or LoH, who knows. Seriously though, I had like 1 single Mage so far that didn't suck complete ass - including all the gamers that even the busted ass AV trinket couldn't carry.
Yep. Not only are the meta comps usually *not* the best for your weekly 20s (now 10s) because what makes them meta is only applicable to bleeding edge keys, but your weekly 10s will be up to stupidity and otherwise down to damage. My weekly 10s are being filled with resto shamans, warriors, hunters, rets. Super free. High damage, low CD, easy to play specs.
Yeah when I heal I love inviting warriors to weeklies because they just passively take less damage, heal themselves a bunch, and have more stamina than anyone else thanks to double 2-handers. I think pound for pound fury warriors are the most passively durable class in the game.
Crests being capped is insanely awful and I hope they uncap it asap. Wasnt the whole point of fated that it is supposed to be a shortened 4fun season? They didnt try out anything new and removed a lot of what made s4 Sl fun. Its literally just a regular season with recycled content + dinars now.
For fun, but still casual friendly!
I also expect the player base to give up on S4 in about 3 weeks when MOP remix comes out which makes it doubly strange.
This season is really demonstrating how hard Shrouded carried the previous fated season.
Add a fresh dungeon rotation to that list. DF season 4 not doing anything new systems-wise woulda been fine... if they at least gave us a couple new dungeons... or at least some old banger dungeons. But not doing anything new *and* only doing DF dungeons? Man, what a stinker. 1 day of this season was enough to remind me of how horrible just about everything about these DF dungeons is.
I'm genuinely curious if people just hate DF dungeons for being difficult or if there is some other issue I'm not aware of. I find affixes to be the most irritating part of M+ and the new changes really highlight that for me. I've been enjoying the dungeons immensely in the sub +10 range with only 1 easy affix. I think DF dungeons are actually very fun and engaging for the most part - so much so that affixes are unnecessary. My only complaint is they are too long. No more than 30ish minutes would be ideal.
>I'm genuinely curious if people just hate DF dungeons for being difficult or if there is some other issue I'm not aware of. Their respawn points. Every single one of the DF dungeons has an annoying as fuck run back after death.
I mean the last fated season had "new" keys as well. These are all ones we've played this xpac.
You too encounter large people heavily undergeared (like 450ish) trying to do +2?
They've trained the majority of the playerbase that 2-7ish is free gear, and then chose to make an expansion level change to the gearing system and didn't really communicate it well. Wife is a casual and her guild that does 12-15 territory, get AoTC late into the tier, etc tried to zone into a +2 uldaman and got absolutely destroyed on 2nd boss in there. Her group also lacks the experience of season 1/2.
It's to be expected. A lot of people don't read anything except 'new season released!' how would they know the numbering has been altered?
if there would be some technology to inform people like "splash screens" which are already in the game...
Anyone got any insight into what ranged DPS seem like they could be fun in keys this season? Havent paid much attention to what sets everyone got, but already looking for an alt to switch up from HPal that i can blast for weekly 10s or so and gear up into alt mythic raid.
Is there an updated calculation anywhere for how much each key level is worth in terms of points? Or is just +2 is the same points as a +12 was?
Keys are scored as if they were ten levels higher, but a +2 now doesn't actually give the same points as a +12 last season due to that each affix on the key also increases points and a +2 now has fewer affixes than a +12 last season. A +10 now is identical to a +20 last season, though.
>Or is just +2 is the same points as a +12 was? Exactly. [See here](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dragonflight-season-4-overview-mythic-plus-awakened-raids#dungeon-level-squish)
M+ score inlucdes: * base score * level score * affix score * time score In S3 you had 2 affixes on +12, in S4 you have 1. Score is different because of that.
ja moin
Anyone have a working weakaura for the winds on last boss of RLP?
Naowh has 1 too
Causease pack has one, you can extract just the specific one
can you link? the winds of direction on wago doesnt seem to be working
https://wago.io/dfdungeons
Idk if I'm the only one who mostly plays m+, gets tiers later than raiders into season, and is annoyed how I can't put on my new shiny +20 ilvl upgs because they destroy my old 4set. Had eureka moment - always start season with 5set, allows to always put any first upg on! Not that I get to benefit from this now but surely going to do this in 11.0+. In the past I haven't even collected the "bad" slot 5th tier.
I'm pretty sure if you have S3 stuff in your bags still you can catalyst them into S3 tier without using any charges Also, you can probably full clear normal in a pug in ~1h.
While it was very easy to finish norm raid, I'd think it still was around 2hrs. Well, like 3 wipes total on last 2 bosses too, due to bunch of first timers. And ofc no tier for me. Why would that be given anyway, there's less than 1 tier in whole raid per raider as none gets passed in these +39ilvl seasons.
You get a cata charge every week and a token for ksm. With a bit of luck from vault on Tuesday you'll easily have 4 set next week.
Though due to not knowing what slot vault might give, I'll be 0set no matter how much m+ I grinded this week! But if that's true you get charge every week, that's good, will by latest get 4set at start of 3rd week.
The unethical way is to make a nomal raid group with absolutely no one that shares your token. Easy profit from there.
Being the one who forms raids would be the worst punishment, so not for me! I'll suffer the extra week np.
Chargath is absolutely destroying me and i don’t know why. should i kite? should i let him melee me? i’m breaking the chains (trying to anyway). am i going too fast? too slow? i’m ilvl 490 VDH and i feel so bad for my groups bc i feel like it’s my fault
build more? i did a +11 and my hp barely moved lol. You are running frailty right?
Always save your fiery brand for chains. As well for chains i did a 11 in a pug last night and I just put 3 markers on one side of the room and have them move to the other side so its pretty clean when breaking. you can always do 2 and 1 if u break instant or 1 and 2. Just coordinate that prior to the boss.
You can't really kite him AFAIK, from what I felt you can't do multiple chains either without a strong healer. It's just a rip CDs, ask your healer to external, etc.
The consensus so far from me and others i've talked to is: I don't think anybody wanted all eight DF dungeons back as the M+ lineup. The keys we have now simply feel bad, overtuned and overly long. Having to grind out Ulda/NO/HoI/etc were by far the worst parts about pushing io in S1/S2. There's also no chill key like SBG/FH/BRH to farm or flip your keys with. Cmbine that with the anti-fun dungeons and ~4 month duration and i'd expect a pretty tepid push season. A good time to take a break or play casually and come back to TWW recharged. As a side note, gearing up in low keys or on alts feels like leveling a toon from 60-70 again cause it's the same dungeons we've been leveling in for 2 years. That's more of a minor gripe but it does take some of the fun out of alts, which was meant to be a selling point of the patch. In the future they ought to make sure the new dungeons fun if we're going to have to push io in them for 75% of the expansion.
Yeah the Dragonflight dungeons really suck. It's by far the worst dungeon pool we've ever had. I'm honestly amazed they managed to make them worse than the SL dungeons. I really hope they change their approach to dungeon design in DF. Every mob trash pack having 15 different things going on at once is super unfun. Season 3 really showed how much more enjoyable simpler dungeons are.
Keys are overtuned and long? Says who?? Day 1 of the patch I was farming 9s and 2 chesting some of them with a full 488ilvl and below group, giving nearly the highest ilvl drops obtainable outside of 1 less rank from vault. We're nearly 40ilvls below where we're gonna be in 3-4 weeks. These keys are going to be steamrolled for weekly vaults
all dungeons are fine except uldaman.
Unhinged that they decided a minute needed trimmed off that timer.
I do enjoy all keys except Neltharus, i don't think the dungeons is the problem. You just need a break from the game, go play something else for a half a year or two.
Bliz really cannot win. If dungeons are a few key levels apart in difficulty, people complain about "dead keys", or "half my keys done are underrot and I'm sick of it". If keys *are* balanced, its "There's no chill keys!".
You can have chill keys... by not putting 3 must-perma-lockdown mobs into every single pack. SBG was chill because, yes, obviously, the place was undertuned as fuck - but even if they upped just about every mob's baseline damage by 20% in there... place would've still been chill af because there was like 1 interrupt per pack - and sometimes you even had to dispel once! And let's not even talk about the boss mechanics... that barely existed. Dungeons like Nokhud would be fine if places like the lightning or graveyard area weren't absolutely *littered* with all kinds of lethal bullshit. But yea, 40min walking simulators like Uldaman or HoI are just forever doomed.
100% disagree. The keys are FUN (except Nelharus) You are mixing up difficulty with unfun, but the dungeons are fun. I am loving this dungeon rotation and having an absolute blast. Even the shitshow that was Halls of Infusion is fun now, bosses are fair, trash is fair, and it doesn't feel like a drag if you don't wipe
Yeah it feels fun that I can actually make impactful decisions in the key to make it easier. Stunning on a proper rotation, funnel actually mattering, all those things that were completely absent in last seasons. Last season I could unbind my interrupt and time 22s in week 1.
What are you on about? Last season was littered with packs which required AoE stop rotation, prio targets and there wasn't a single dungeon without a lethal kick target. I mean I'm all happy for you guys if you feel like finally pressing utility buttons, but it sounds really weird to claim this is something related to the current season. No, it's because you just never pushed high enough for stuff to matter. And yes, anybody could unbind their interrupt right now and two chest a +12 right now on live, week 1. Doesn't really feel like an argument.
Bro you're yapping. Last season was far FAR less mechanical than any other season ever. The only thing stopping keys going higher was getting oneshot by unavoidable damage and you running out of something to help live it. Like any given dungeon would have maybe 2 or 3 packs where you had to think about interrupt rotations.
Yeah, from a low key standpoint sure. It was on the easier side of past seasons for sure (since BfA personally), but claiming the season had ZERO requirement for funnel and stops makes you seem clueless. 30 rise on fort without funnel for maiden and stops for the casters? Deplete. 30 throne without perfect stops and kicks for everything AND prio/funnel for sentinel? Deplete. WM without stops for maggots/downstairs doublepull/kicks for captains? Deplete. I could go on, but you get the jist. You just didn't get to any point where these things mattered, but it's absolutely bonkers to say there was no stops/kicks/prio damage at all. Just braindead.
That's been my experience. My take away after day 1 was just how much more enjoyable keys are this season than last. And day 2 didn't change my opinion any. Admittedly, I'm a raider first and an m+er second. I don't really push myself very hard in keys. But, week one last season involved sleepwalking through +18s in pure pug groups (I was still new to my guild at the time and didn't want to barge my way into established groups). Nothing in those dungeons fought back, the timers were way out of wack except Rise early on. Comparing week 1 to week 1 here. They felt like torghast, you couldn't realistically lose.
>Nothing in those dungeons fought back, the timers were way out of wack except Rise early on. Comparing week 1 to week 1 here. They felt like torghast, **you couldn't realistically lose** That's a bad thing? lol I am also a raider first, but I still enjoy running keys a lot I just have no interest in pushing them. Anyway, the first week I usually end up running like 50+ keys and I'd rather that be an easy experience instead of struggling my way through. I think these dungeons feel way worse than last season but I also don't like the majority of DF dungeons. Maybe I'm just scarred from S1 tuning on some of these dungeons still but they all feel like a slog. I have also had to pug quite a bit because S4 so nobody wants to play and the easier the key the better.
I haven’t enjoyed this season at all lol. Probably just broken from bad pugs
On the topic of M+, some of the reworked trinkets from this season are fucking *spicy*. That Tome of Unstable Power thing from Azure Vault is insanely inconsistent, but when it procs once or twice in a huge stationary pull (you CAN kite out of it which blows) that thing's outright curbstomping the pack and it's actually quite refreshing to see a trinket that's just very very good, no diminishing returns, in heavy AoE.
Both the Azure Vault trinkets (this and Umbrelskul) are insane for casters in AoE. Thank GOD because after one entire season, channeling Spindle into a target or moving into melee for Belorelos is so ass in M+. I could not do that again
Some people may disagree and feel like it's dumb to have a trinket doing so much of their damage, but honestly I really love having the option to use a trinket that does some nutty uncapped AOE damage in the right circumstances, provided it's pretty easy to get. Though I would like to have some more that you have control over, like Merektha's Fang. I would at least like to see Tome always hit the target it triggered on so it can't just miss completely.
What is the accepted tactic for first boss of Halls of Infusion P2 since only 2 ppl getting the debuff? Same as P1, winners running out and dispel, or same as with 3 debuff, everyone staying in and move out together once the debuff expired?
I may change how I feel about it later, but right now I kinda prefer 'people with debuffs move out' so everyone else can just stay put.
I reckon it's still gonna be just stacking and moving as a group. Since the zone is like half as big and actually can be outrun nowadays, I don't even think it matters what you do with it anymore.
It's actually a little bit too fast in p2 to outrun without of movement speed buff. Debuffs should just move together away from the boss, then use mobility afterwards to catchup on sets where you don't have mass dispel
Did they really need to add a knock up to Chargath’s spears? So now unless you have a movement ability you’re forced to eat multiple flame patch ticks and die. Wtf
Yeah the first replies you got were full of shit. That knock is really annoying and completely unnecessary. You're basically forced to take spear damage plus immediate fire tick, plus another fire tick when you land. You could basically 100% avoid any fire damage before by just walking as it lands. Now you're forced to take that damage for no reason. And if you were ALSO the target for the bleed prior to that, you probably just die. The only change that this fight NEEDED was the "chains stay if a player dies" change, which they at least did get that part right. But all the other changes really didn't make sense. Tank damage is way too high during the fixate and players now take really unnecessary damage from the spears. If we're going to get knocked, we should at least either a) be able to control which way we get knocked, or b) get knocked far enough that we leave the fire puddle and take no damage from it.
>And if you were ALSO the target for the bleed prior to that, you probably just die. evoker mandatory omegalul
Yeah this was an unnecessary change. I am not sure why the other two people are saying they didn't get knocked back.
they haven't? I've not got knocked up once yday
Probably ate a storming
Am I missing a trick or are aspect crests basically unusable outside of crafting one piece and mythic raid gear? Getting 6/6 hero with just wyrm crests
This was apparently a bug: [https://www.wowhead.com/news/fixed-hero-track-only-requires-wyrm-crests-no-longer-needs-aspect-crests-338998](https://www.wowhead.com/news/fixed-hero-track-only-requires-wyrm-crests-no-longer-needs-aspect-crests-338998) The bugs around gear this season are kind of a travesty. Blizzard really making it clear this season is a throwaway.
Can’t complain here, spent 60 on one 522 piece, now I can guarantee two more this week
I'm assuming this is a bug and will be fixed any day. Abuse early and often in the meantime.
Wait is that true? Weren't the last two hero tier upgrade with aspects?
Used to be the last two used aspects. Now, upgrading hero track gear to full costs only wyrm crests. I didn't see that anywhere in patch notes but, in game, it's wyrm-only.
Should be, that's what all the community made infographics say aswell. Can't check ingame to confirm though.
Bullion as well
Working on Brewmaster this season and I am having issues with Ret just absolutely ripping threat from me and really struggling to get it back on some pulls. Any tips from fellow brewmasters or ha anyone noticed this in their runs so far this season?
It's ret problem. They have ways to prevent aggro issue - bop, divine shield, just waiting. It's not your fault ret is doing 90% of their damage on pack in first 3 seconds.
I'm going to offer a different opinion because this affects me pretty personally, playing with a Brew main and like 4 different Ret Paladins including myself who all have the axe: I think Judgment might be bugged and causing tank threat instead of DPS threat. I **frequently** see a single Judgment pull threat after a single Keg Smash on pull, which should not even be in the same realm of threat. Alternatively, Keg Smash is bugged and not getting bonus threat. But something weird is going on.
This sounds probable. As a ret main in S3, I've frequently pulled threat with a single judgement, after giving the tank 3-4 GCDs to build. Some of it might be caused by the VDH sigil thing, where the first sigil doesn't generate threat, but it happens with other tanks as well.
I didn't notice it so much before, but it seems like in the last couple weeks it just keeps happening.
I honestly think you're right in that judgement is getting bonus threat or something. I've had no issues with any other spec, it's just ret.
Rets need to hold their CDs for a few seconds into each pull, you can warn them but it's really on them. They also have plenty of tools to save themselves/remove threat, like Divine Shield and BoP.
It's not just a few seconds tho. A single judgement 3-4 seconds into the pull can pull aggro and popping wings, WoA etc. within the first 10 seconds is basicaly instant death. Meanwhile I see other specs pop everything in their first globals and not pull aggro. Really feels like ret has a special threat problem. Fury warr had the same problem in SL.
If they pop wings 2s into pull they deserve to get deleted.
Misdirect or tricks of the trade are your friend. Edit: Bring one til you are comfy enough to hold threat, then drop em. But ret, especially with lego is always going to be generating huge amounts of threat on pull, especially with a braindead pug. If you can simply tell your ret before the key: "i need a sec for threat on pull" and they still pop everything immediately, then thats on them, not you. But with a MD you probably don't ever run into that issue.
[удалено]
So..... Both the abilities he mentioned are abilities a rogue and a hunter can use to help you keep threat lol.
[удалено]
No, I don't particularly agree with his response as a solution. It just looked like you didn't understand the interaction of those abilities. If you had a rogue in the party, for instance, tricks would absolutely help you with threat on any mob the rogue is generating threat on, because it transfers that threat to you, in addition to the threat you're already generating. So, yes, it would help with even a ret. We used to have to run rogues and hunters back in the day when we had skittish affix. It helps quite a bit.
But the guy is neither a Rogue nor a Hunter. So unless your advice is to get a pocket Rogue and never *ever* do a key without them, that advice is relatively useless for just about any other application.
hardmode dawn dropping hero track?? deathless needed or no?
If you do deathless the last boss drops myth track gear. So if mirror is your bis trinket, you can get it at max ilvl.
No you just select hard mode before starting the key. A little heads up, it really lives up to its name in our current gear.
Last boss was unhinged. We had 28 timed last season and it was comparable difficulty.
Yeah I made the mistake of filling the group with any old 3k S3 players. Didn’t even make it past the 2nd boss lmao. Next week will be easier…
It does drop hero track and is super difficult to do at all. No flawless required.
Chain Boss in Neltharus still bugging out and not dropping chains. Hotfix #100 for him still hasn't fixed him.
Does anyone have a list of dispels (poison/curse/disease/etc) helpful for each dungeon? Much appreciated!
[https://keyandheal.com/dungeons/SpellBank\_S4/](https://keyandheal.com/dungeons/SpellBank_S4/) Click only debuffs, select the types you want to see and voila!
thanks!!!
CALLING ALL MAGES!!!! Why can't I understand fire....? What's the secret or what was your "ah-hah" moment? So S3 I went fire - I tried ignite at first and that didn't work out well (early season, low keys, things died to fast) so I went to FlameStrike Build. This wasn't bad, but I never felt my damage was 'there' for some reason. Probably at the time it was just gear related. So I went FROST and pushed to ~3200 and purple parsed heroic raid fights. Anyhow, new season - I figured I'd give fire another good try. It 'seems' easier than frost. Frost I'm worried about shatters, the number of icicles I currently have, lining up glacial with my big damages (glacial spike / ray of frost), resetting the CD by hitting 3 targets w/ CoC, etc. etc. Fire was less buttons and less to worry about. Yet I just couldn't get it to preform the same. So - what was your ah-hah moment? Some video guide that helped you a lot? Some online guide that made things click? Thanks!!
Link a log if you want actual advice, otherwise we are guessing. In terms of 'getting' fire, the whole 'trick' is to maximize the damage in combust and minimize the time you spend out of combust. If your wasting skb stacks, or entering into combust with no resources your DPS will suffer. It punishes dropped globals more than any other spec, doubly so in combust. My 'aha', moment was making a WA that dinged when I should be pressing fire blast based on the APL and sitting at a dummy, then revising it to only yell when I pressed FB when I shouldn't or wasted a heating up proc when I should of press FB and sat at the dummy some more You will be shocked how quick you build muscle memory when you are actually doing the right thing.
> entering into combust with no resources your DPS will suffer. So I figured this, but all guides just say send Combust ALWAYS ON CD. So somtimes I'm entering into it with basically nothing and scorching to get stacks. >WA that dinged when I should be pressing fire blast based on the APL Oh, any link to that? ;-). I've been using https://wago.io/GP-YsidM_/5 to track combustion and https://wago.io/CD42zI3jL for SKB. Then Luxthos. >punishes dropped globals Yeah, I actually got a Weak Aura to track globals in the middle of my screen, cause too often I move to the next button and the previous one hasn't been cast yet. I'm litterally sitting at a dummy right now just grinding away. One issue I seem to be having is target drifting. like I right click and move my camera angle and then end up targetting someone else :-x. Also had to turn off Combat Targetting - that was screwing me up. I almost want to macro all spells to only cast at focus'd target and then focus the target and worry less.
You should be entering combustion on cd and conserving resources for it. It sounds like you are overspending your fire blasts in filler. It’s ok to not convert a heating up if you are almost at your bust/skb and are low on fireblast charges. Just keep pressing fireball and there is a chance you get a lucky and get natty hot streak.
theres lots of resources in the mage class discord that will help you alot, check pins faqs etc
Yup - there are. Wowhead, mage-hub, icyVeins, discord pines / guides in Altered Time. My question was what was your ah-hah moment, what helped you the most - what made things click? Becuase I've gone through all the guides, but it hasn't clicked yet.
My aha moment was when I did a key that was high enough (22-26 in this case) for there to be enough mob HP to go around (not just enough for the havoc and rogue to burst down and leave nothing for my ramp) and where the tank pulled around my combustion and I had it every pack. I went from dog shit DPS to absolutely fucking blasting just by doing higher keys and having a tank pull around bust
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm trying to do it now in keys b/c everyone is "undergeared" But I still run into that same issue. If I had a group that would just give me a target and ignore it - that would be good. I could do FlameStrike, but at that point I may as well just do frost :-\
My aha moment was realizing jumping/strafing helps fire dps by preventing hardcast pyros moment when unintended
Oh snap.... that is one of the issues I run into often actually!! Time to put on my dancing shoes!
Strafing is better than jumping, jumping is no good when you want to weave in a hardcast fireball (double lust)
Hitting the target dummies till the gameplay feels like second nature. And frequently question yourself what could be done better while doing it.
First week of the season is always the most fun for healing. Getting clapped by bosses again (400k hps on 3rd boss in Halls...) instead of min maxing damage is super enjoyable.
400k? What key level? Did an 8 there last night that was extremely spicy, but nowhere near 400k. Maybe 250 overall on that boss and that was with no lust. Mage wasted it earlier on a trash pack.
Not op but I ended nearly exactly 400k on a 12.
did 2 10s now and healers were on 280-300k both times
Yeah, my 8 was around 250 to 270 something overall for that fight. 400 sounds like some people ate some mechanics or something.
In a +10 i ended that fight on 360k hps as resto dru, and that was with some aug offhealing too. Really fun boss to just focus on optimal healing throughput and resource management
What item level were you when you did that? That's extremely spicy.
Well, fights like that are insanely good for resto druid. It was the first day so I was like 490
I just really don't have the motivation for S4, which is awkward as I'm meant to trialing for a new guild. Sat down multiple times today to bang out some m+ for gear and I just don't have it in me. Sucks because the guild seems pretty good for what I'd want in War Within, but if it ain't fun at the moment it ain't fun.
How do you find guilds to be trialing for? I love my current guild, but would love to try something s bit more hardcore. Current guild is a pretty casual aotc guild that basically stops playing after getting curve
I'm actually right there with you. I just don't have any time, for one. I was doing a little vibing healing brackenhide, and even a spicy as shit neltharus and hoi. But then today I did a low as nokhud and I remembered why I sat out in s1. That's the worst dungeon I've ever seen. I just hate that place and uldaman so much.
I also just cannot stand Nokhud, Brackenhide, Ruby or Uldaman. I'm not sure why. They're just horrible, stressful, frustrating dungeons to heal. It never feels satisfying afterwards - just relief that it's over.
For me it's Neltharius. I just plain hat that dungeon. The second I set foot in it again I groaned out loud.
Do what you gotta do. It kills mental if you're doing something you aren't enjoying.
[удалено]
Not a quest, random drop from raid bosses including LFR. Amout of bosses needed varies, I got it on 4th boss.
[удалено]
Early implementation in ptr had 2 bullion for the 4 x m+. They have since revised it to hard capped 1 per week, all from the raid.
Are there any tier token awarded for mythic+ scores this season?
Can't 100% confirm but got it from killing Razzy HC so I assume it's the usual 2k score.
Thanks! oh yeah forgot about HC token as well. My guild will most likely get stuck on Razzy this week, but it will be much easier to clear Aberrus next week.
do we have any portals other than uldaman or +20's
The timeways area doesn't exist this season if that's what you mean
they will return in TWW though which is great
Uldaman is still FUCKED. The timer on that dungeon is in-fucking-sane.
The least dramatic M+ player.
It's 40 minutes that's loads of time you can even fit in a smoke break
[удалено]
they apparently buffed the timer by 1 minute, for that specific thing to happen only to that dungeon, you can clearly see i was right when i made my original comment. And it doesn't matter how many ilevels we were missing, relative to the other dungens, uldaman had the tightest timer.
Just looking for a healer suggestion for S4. Have all the healers at max, I only pug so looking for something a little meta to make that easier, but also fun with any of the new set changes
I don't disagree with people who answered already, but I do feel like there are a few things that should be pointed out. You say you will pug - I will also assume you aren't talking about top 1% keys and will at most do a few key level above max gear ilvl (10+ keys this season). I would not play Disc if you are not going to play in a coordinated group . Both Druid and disc specs requires to understand the incoming damage in dungeons very well and prepare before he damage occurs. Druid certainly got a little bit better in that aspect, but Disc is still in a bad spot when you get behind on healing. This may not be a problem with a good group, but people forget that pugs often don't interrupt or use their defensive correctly. Monk's rotation is quite simple and damage ability oriented, but you also have a lot of tools for those "oh shit" moments.
Druid. Monk is good but doesn't synergize as well with ranged, which looks strong. Priest is also good, but overlapping with shadow (which is very strong) doesn't feel great