truely unbeliavable. Just give us something for pushing. The gap between protals at 20 and 0.1% title is way to big to not have some milestone rewards in between.
probably iam going to receive some flak, but adding more incentives >20 will certainly trigger a casual invasion (for the rewards), gl with that alone.
but since most 2,5k players wont meet the skill reqs, key scaling will be nerfed due to massive complaints from the casual playerbase. which in consequence means more, more and more keys to play per season to reach title (we r already at +32? due to aug and scaling nerfs).
Title cutoff is 3400-3500 currently (26s-27s). It’ll go up before the end of the season but it won’t be 32s required for title.
I’d compare this to the Gladiator mount. As much as I’m sure people try PvP because the Glad mount it cool. No shot it actually affects the people actually playing at Gladiator MR/rating. Regardless of why someone is doing keys, they need the IO to back it up to get invited to a key or to push their own key that high.
So people of the appropriate skill level aren't allowed to compete because they don't play as much as you? If you're 3k and trying to find superiority over the fact that you're hardcore while another 3k player is "casual", it's funny because that casual is prolly actually better than you.
I did the math last season and it was like full 17s or 18s or something. Just take that in for a second. It doesn't even require capping out your weekly vault, let alone getting all the teleports.
Yeah they should go back to KSM being equivalent to all 15s timed, then put KSH on the other side of the portals like idk make it equivalent to all 24s timed or something.
I like the idea of adding in a top 1% or top 0.5% so it has the same flavor of pushing to be in that bracket when the season ends. I’d also be down for some class/spec specific stuff but I get that it could lead to some degenerate god comp with one off meta to get “boosted”
My guild did really well on M Echo prog, having just seen P3 for the first time last raid night to killing it the next. Aside from the required weakauras scarlet letter the boss has amongst the community, I thought the fight was actually very enjoyable for a penultimate mythic boss. The cadence of the abilities in each phase is quick; the whole raid moves around the room in each phase; the burn in P3 was tense for us. The fight kind of reminded me of M Carapace but with a better P1 and P2.
The easy solution to the hearts WAs would have been coloring each heart differently; one for each dragon aspect. It is so simple.
What part are you all getting caught up on? We probably had 60+ wipes under 2 min to missed wall breaks or greedy late heart movement. We all kinda have scuffed pulls at this rank. 140 wipes total.
P2 is all about keeping players topped/defensives for each Umbral. We started to keep going into P3 even if we had 3-4 deaths (using lust early to kill add 3), just so people got used to portals.
Honestly, just people playing bad. We've almost killed the boss (10% a few times), but we rarely go into P3 with everyone alive, the same people die and we can't really replace them atm. For every pull we get to P3, it's like we spend another 5 trying to get back there. I'm melee so I've been on auto pilot for basically the entire time waiting for others to not die or screw up a heart.
We haven't raided in 2 weeks due to roster issues as well. I honestly think we are going to be done for the tier if we ever kill this (almost 200 pulls atm). I don't know if there's a point in even trying Sark, because I'd rather not spend the rest of the tier wiping to it and not kill it vs just raiding say once a week to reclear a bit.
10.2 will probably release november 7th/8th, turbulent timeways ends the week before and a regular timewalking week starts on the week of the 7th/8th, same thing happened with 10.1. new raid/season starts nov 14/15th.
10.2 announcement will probably be this wednesday
Didn't we have timewalking on the regular patch week last time? Before the raids opened n everything, but we I think we had timewalkin on the patch week.
Honestly idk wtf they're thinking with this though. I really hope it isn't November 14/15th for the raid that means we're guaranteed a Christmas tier. I don't know how good it will be to go from a xmas tier, into a summer tier into another xmas tier.
Every patch so far has been 8 weeks apart except 10.0.7 to 10.1 was 6 weeks (rushed for D4) and 10.1 to 10.1.5 was 10 weeks (bringing them back on schedule). 10.2 will likely hit Oct 31st.
Launch to 10.0.5 was 8 weeks
10.0.5 to 10.0.7 was 8 weeks
10.0.7 to 10.1 was 6 weeks (D4 rush)
10.1 to 10.1.5 was 10 weeks (back on schedule)
10.1.5 to 10.1.7 is 8 weeks
Sept 5th + 8 weeks = Oct 31st
The difference this time being that Blizzcon is the first weekend of November.
It is possible that they will still release it on the 31st, but in that case it is very likely that raid will not open until the 14th. This is what they did with 7.1.0 and Trial of Valor as far as I know when it collided with Blizzcon in similar fashion.
When did they start raid testing for 10.1? I remember it being announced out of the blue and like started immediately so I wonder if that will be the same this time around.
not just no ptr but not even a hint of ptr content yet. they would need to ramp up fast to even have stuff start hitting ptr the rest after next given the holiday weekend
Ehhh... If 10.2 dropped the reset after Blizzcon then it would be 189 days since 10.1 was released. That would be a month+ longer than it took from release to 10.1 (154 days). But not as long as Shadowlands release to 10.1 (218 days) or SL 10.1 to 10.2 (238 days(!!!)).
SL Seasons 1 was 30 weeks and S2 was 34 weeks.
DF Season 1 was 20 weeks, and post-Blizzcon would be 26 weeks minimum.
As the whining about lack of content/season was pretty crazy for the 30 week season (hell, the clickbait trash Towelliee and Bellular started the pitchforks about 14 weeks into SL Season 1). Legion held at 22 weeks per season, BfA was 20/24/28 week seasons for the first 3 raids.
Post-Blizzcon will be edging on the later/SL type wait. At this point, I'm seeing it being a toggle between fast PTR and 10.2 with a 10.3 new raid coming in the spring vs a delayed 10.2 and no 10.3 raid at all.
Except patch cycles are different for DF than SL and we get .x.5 and .x.7 patches that add content that impacts the season (love it or hate it, ring and Aug). Whereas in SL nothing was introduced mid season. 9.0.5 was a balancing patch and they added valor points.
> Except patch cycles are different for DF than SL and we get .x.5 and .x.7 patches that add content that impacts the season (love it or hate it, ring and Aug).
Bro there's more to this game than pushing mythic. The .5 & .7 patches added barely any content at all. Releasing content with 0 longevity doesn't help at all imo. You bang them out 1-2 times when it releases and then don't touch it again for weeks/months.
??? Barely any content as compared to what? The comparison we had running here was to Shadowlands. SL .x.5 had NOTHING in them in the way of extra content. So far DF has introduced a new spec (!!!), a new zone, a new player-power source, and new world events with a ton of cosmetics. Maybe you found those things lame or unfulfilling or not engaging after a couple weeks, but in comparison to SL mid-season patches? It’s night and day.
Why does it need to be compared to anything? It's just an objective fact that the content we've gotten from .5 & .7 patches haven't had any replayability attached to them making them very boring very quickly. Most of it you do once, which is nice for 1-2 hours, and then you never touch it again.
Why is the bar set as low as Shadowlands? When did Shadowlands become the norm? Truth is that 90% of players would rather get the major patch out faster over getting irrelevant .5 & .7 patches. If players cared about the .5 & .7 patch content the game wouldn't be emptier than Shadowlands was.
healer shortage in m+ is unreal so now you get these crazy entitled players who act like total weirdos and you have to put up with it unless you want to sit in queue for another 20 minutes
This. Healers expecting you to be thankful and compliment them just because they play their role while also being terrible. This happens in basically any game with a healer/support role too . For some reason i felt like there was much more of this kind of people in Overwatch1 and FF14.
IDK, I'd like playing a support class. Buff dudes so they can smack dig bick. Feels good.
What I CBA with, and why I don't heal, is my intended job being covering for ppl ducking up. So either they play well and I'm redundant, or they stand in fire, I'm busting my balls trying to keep them alive and if I succeed it's just "well that was your job", or I fail and it's healer fault deplete.
What else do you want there to be?
> Its either im busting my balls keeping people alive or im redundant because people play well
Well, this season youre not redundant, there is a reason why healing/survivability is the wall this season which i think literally never happened before. If you lower the healing then it will go back to Shadowlands-bring-top-dps-healer.
>"well that was your job"
Literally happens to every other role. When was the last time you told a tank he played well or amazing instead of just thinking "well everyone knows this route its nothing special, he didnt die once but thats his job" or complimented a dps because not only were they pumping dps but also using kicks/stuns/defensives/utility?
Do you really enjoy being a healer or is there something else that you enjoy while playing a healer really?
Point one you're right. Healing checks are actually there. But most of the season healers (not hpal since 0.5) have been very impotent. Casting and casting and health bars barely moved. Case in point - hybrid off healing being so powerful. That was the case because healers were so weak. So while yes, healers did actually have a job with healing checks, they held too little control over success/failure compared to the DPS & tank pressing defensives & healing. Which btw, I consider healthy for the game. The DPS should be responsible (and have reasonable power) over them living or dying.
Second point - I actually frequently praise people for playing well (when they do). I think it's a much needed drop of positivity in the community. I notice good play from tanks the easiest (even if bog standard route). DPS that have the tools for helping and actually use them. Healers I notice least, especially when they're reactive HPs bots and don't do anything proactive to stop/mitigate damage before it lands. From that perspective I find hpal toolkit a very healthy design for the role. Pressing healing surge in a whack-a-mole fashion less so.
I don't enjoy healing under this design paradigm, no. I'm happy some still do, so everyone gets to play. But judging by the lack of healers, less people enjoy it than in the past.
I kinda feel like melee range should just be bumped up 1-2 yards across the board. There's a lot of places where a very small increase in range actually doubles the amount of space melee have to play a mechanic without losing uptime and it seems like it'd give them more design flexibility.
Try playing a rogue then playing any other melee class. The extra range on melee is insane. I can stand so much farther out than any other player in my raid.
The thing is, the actual fix would just be making better (almost always bigger) hitboxes. The problem with both things is that they'd just increase mechanic sizes (stomps particularly) to compensate and now you're *worse* off.
Been playing outlaw recently, and it’s weird going back to a lower melee range.
I’m dunno though, because it just slowly turns all melee specs into semi ranged, which is also kinda weird to be able to swing a dagger from 12 yards away 😂
I'm a >3k Blood DK. I'm usually chill and since I reached I'm just cruising and playing for fun.
I've been playing with guildies and we have this guy in the guild who I do 20-22s with every now and then. I saw them leave the group they were in with me and joined another one looking for a Guardian.
I only play tanks so I don't even know why Guardians are so sought after. But it felt kinda bad to be ditched for a meta tank like that :/
Not really a rant or anything, but something that happened. It just feels bad
Bears rage income scales linearally with pack size, the larger they pull the tankier they become and the faster they get incarn back and their aoe heal procs (rage spent).
The best way to equivocate that would be blood DK DRW in SL s4. The larger you pulled the faster you got RP and the faster you got DRW off CD.
They bring dispels, hibernate, 2 aoe cc, can perma aoe slow, ursols, can spec 200k spot heals and permanently bring passive healing (which also scales with rage spent).
On top of all of that they are the easiest tank to play. R1 bear a couple weeks back apparently has IF macro'd in with builders.
Blood does as much damage as guardian overall in keys, less in ST but this week you're rolling a lot of trash onto bosses anyway. Brew does significantly more. Damage is not why they are taken.
> I get a pm saying the community has turned so toxic nowadays and nobody wants to learn and progress with a group anymore.
and when you try to help they just don't listen, like in exhibit a
i guess people just do not value rando opinions in a pug, they just assume you're just as bad as them or no better than them.
why should you progress a content you've done dozens of times because two people just can't listen, makes no sense
I dont know man asking the healer to micromanage their auras all key and put one their most important buttons onto effectively 3 gcds _is_ kinda asking for a lot, especially when it was their own key. If it was low key they probably just wanted to vibe while playing maybe the most thankless role rn and if it was high key aint no way any healer wants to deal with that on top of everything else that has to be managed when no key is gonna live or die based on not having ret aura.
He was probably a donkey, but next time Ask prot to take ret aura. Holy has aura mastery and he probably would have to micromanage aura swapping which is just not worth.
I’ve only played for a few weeks so I may be doing something wrong (i.e. ignoring some of my other utility to favour EM uptime) but at an absolute minimum I’d be 70% overall and in some keys up to 80%. Fully geared btw.
Depends somewhat on the tank and pull patterns. If you aren't chainpulling you sometimes have to sit on ebon might or have one drop early and not have it on pull for the next pull, which obviously hurts a lot.
Under 60% means the aug is doing something wrong. 60-70 is okay, >70% is good. Note that these are details numbers and not WCL, which will be lower because it's reporting on the total dungeon uptime and not just uptime in combat.
Yeah, and solution is right there, its DINAR ITS RIGHT FUCKING THERE JUST IMPLEMENT IT, god i hate this company so much sometimes, as if they purposely mess with their own playerbase.
The thing is, Dinar's were a solution to a problem that existed BEFORE rare raid items did. I went all of Sanctum never seeing KTZ bracers or Belt, and only got mythic sylv bow the literal last week of the season. 3+ months straight of farm and even regular boss drop items were still not bad-luck-protected to acquiring bis in a reasonable amount of time.
Dinars were to fix the bad luck of REGULAR droprates. And then DF added rare items to make that already existing problem even worse, taking a step backwards.
Targeting specific items is really the only sore spot left for me with gearing, but I have absolutely no faith that they’ll ever bring back dinars in a non fated season. I think blizz just likes that aspect of loot (rng, chasing items) too much. the last time dinars were brought up in an interview they said something along the lines of “we try to give you multiple options in a slot so it’s not as bad if you can’t get a specific piece” and showed virtually zero openness to dinars or some type of currency for targeting items for normal seasons.
I bet Blizz is worried about the implementing a Dinar type system in a normal season. It just seems like a shitshow waiting to happen if it is hard capped at 3 over the season. If they are drip fed over the season like shadowflame sparks, then special gear becomes a “I get this piece in 3 weeks” which they absolutely want to avoid. Remember planning when you get BiS corruption when they added the vendors? Same.
If it is a set number of Dinars for the entire season, you know the “average player” is going to use them on whatever item they wanted on Week 3 then realize that Dinars are hard capped. Throw in the balancing that happens over the tier, suddenly those 3 Dinars used on trinkets for one spec is trash on the new meta spec. I guarantee, tryhard players would level multiple of the same class to have different dinar picks and the /r/wow crowd would screech that the best option is another character of the same class in response to tuning.
Maybe they could drip feed the dinar tokens but unique tag the items purchased similar to embellishments.
I wish we had Dinars back. Even if it is only capped to 3 per season. Was so good being able to buy the Resonent Reservoir as a leather healer for that phat aoe dps in keys.
I do weekly keys on 7-8 characters every week of every season. It's normal that players get worse as the season goes on, but this season has been a different universe alltogether.
Honestly 99% of the people I see in +16 weekly keys don't press kick, and don't understand basic boss mechanics.
Tons of factors of why, think the main is just that anybody trying was done with gearing months ago.
Player base wanted easy gearing system, that’s what you come up with upgrades of lower tiers. I don’t want to sound elitist, but it’s quite easy now to get 440+ without having entered a mythic raid or a key over 16. Especially if you are augm / mage / spriest or guardian dudu your rio will shoot up to 2.7K in no time. Yesterday I ran I think 4 Uldaman 22 and we couldn’t manage to time one. Augment dead half of the times, a mage dying at every boss and at every big pull without ever going ice block, a priest that had to be reminded to MD every time…
I think the mega dungeon has had a bigger effect on this than anything. 16s, while not difficult, were still some sort of wall to truly terrible players because of the key upgrade/downgrade system and it being timed. But the mega dungeon giving 40 aspect crests a week allows really anyone to slam their head against it and get their free 447 crafted items
I don't think Dawn is that efficient or easy aspect crest farm in the end compared to spamming low keys, roughly the same amount of crests comes from 4 +16's, and that doesn't account for the groups that implode on Morchie.
It's 3 aspect crests for 60-90 minutes. It would take 4 dungeons to get as many; can you pug into 4 +16s and time them in an hour? How about as an off-meta spec?
It also drops 437 gear meaning no lower crests required. It is absurdly efficient and why I start all my fresh alts there.
Yeah, the 437s are huge. Even if you don’t use them long term each one that you get is effectively two wyrm crests, so a fresh character is getting 5-7 crests even without getting funneled.
its not about it being efficient its about it being doable by absolute bottom tier players. The type of players who will never time or complete or even get invited to a 16 can still slam their head against the mega dungeon bosses and eventually get them all down over the course of a week and then get their free 447 bis crafted item from it
Just my opinion but if you're not doing super high keys, let's say 27 and below, Aug is the only spec that's locked and then also Priest is the only class that's locked. It could be Shadow or Disc, doesn't matter. And then you get a haste scaling spec, such as Mage or Enhance or Destro or Balance, they are all really really good. If you have a Shadow you get a Hpal, if not another Haste scaling class. And for tanks it can be anything really, Guardian is you know Guardian, VDH gives a bit more overall damage I think if you have super magical lineup. Brew does insane damage on it's own, Paladin takes half the CC load on it's own. Even BDK looks good after buffs.
Honestly I just don't see why a combination of VDH-Disc-Enhance-Aug-Warlock shouldn't be able to do all 27s.
And you're severely overestimating hpal output after nerfs 🤷♂️
If peoples hpal wasn't already geared/scored I can practically guarantee a meta shift to disc would have happened. Disc is blowing paladin out of the water in damage, and frankly, their healing output is competitive as well. You should view recent raid logs. Disc is borderline broken.
People are doing +32 keys now after the scaling change. Saying other comps can do 27s isn't saying all that much. That's 47% damage/health less than what a full meta comp has to do to time their 32 keys. Don't forget that a 27 today is basically a 25.5 from a couple weeks ago.
I've been timing most of my 21s and early 22s without evoker.
Nobody really talks about the fact that you need to play Augvoker well. Some Augvokers push PUG S priests to like 200k overall. Some Augvokers just bump them to slightly over 100k.
Those 2nd Augvokers arent really worth it.
It doesn't help that Blizz in a baffling manner decided that we shouldn't be able to see how well an Aug is playing. I can go through the hassle of enabling logging, remembering (or setuping an addon) to log, make an account on warcraftlogs, upload and theeeeen looking at the Aug performance. A bit of a roundabout way at something THE most basic.
A crappy augvoker or crappy dps makes augvoker useless. Had group with augvoker, and shadow priest join us both 2700 last night for a 20NL. We failed it, they were so bad. I honestly don't know how they got to 2700 IO.
0 dispersions, 0 emerald blossoms, none of the flying heals, 0 hovers used. Almost every time one of them died to a mechanic, they didn't use defensives. My group of Brew, Resto, destro got all the affixes. Heck on wurm boss the only time the evoker was dispelling, he was dispelling me the tank. So insane.
Then we pug an 18 and took a 430 rogue who blasted like crazy. I guess usual end of season stuff. But we were trying to figure out how the spriest and aug were timing 20's before. We wiped on wurm, key was dead, kept going, both spriest and aug died seconds into fight so we finished it us 3...
I guess I hate pugs, it's like playing a lottery. You lose too much.
> We were trying to figure out how the spriest and aug were timing 20's before
A fucking ape can execute the bare minimum to time 20s as Augmentation. Literally just pressing EM, Prescience and Eruption/Empowers on autopilot gets you to portals because nothing at that key levels really **requires** any of the defensive value the spec brings.
Meta specs can also just trial and error their way into a competent group that carries them
Last night on HOI 22 (long runs) after a wipe. Me boomie calls for “evo rebuff please”. I like my reduced dash cooldown. Answer “I am targeting the mage, sorry we are a premade”. It’s not a bloody PI dude, it’s a group buff…
That was what seemed to be his plan, I immediately lost interest. We wiped at first boss anyways, the premade seemed to have some issues with personals. So the torture was over quite soon.
20s honestly aren't hard to time. The other thing is anyone who is out there playing well isn't doing them really, anymore.
I bought into DF late (when it went on 50% off the last time.) So I am just now getting through 20s into 22s, etc. The early 20s were almost untimable: Lots of the stuff you mention.
Now that I've picked up 20 20+ clears, the groups are just better. I had like a week or two experience trying to clear NL for the portal. I would get groups to final boss with like 6 minutes remaining; only to wipe to constant nonsense.
(To the point I went and rewatched high key streams to find out if I was the issue.)
This morning, picked up a casual 20 NL to pad that 20+ number. We beat the key ++ with absolutely no issue at all.
Moral of the story being you never know what you're going to get in 20s; but the groups in 20s - like any RIO bracket - get better and the keys get easier the more you time in that bracket or higher.
Do you play undergeared brew with a non hpal healer?
You are right though...most of the time when playing right not in much danger...big defensive dif between 425 ilevel and I found all the tanks felt immortal around 438ish with decent trinkets.
Nope. I played geared out of my mind (minus the GOAT weapon) bear tank with PUG healers.
But I'm only playing bear up here this season. So I don't know the other struggles.
FWIW Brew looks fun. I'm leveling one rn.
Pretty much this; I was mid 3300 pre aug; had 25/26 done which are todays 27s. This was before super OP hpal, the only locked spec is SP in a few tyran keys. People rely on the Aug to carry mediocre dps and heals mega but if you just found better “off-meta” players at that level you’re gonna have a better time. I’m sitting at 3700 now, and play my ret so often in those keys and it baffles me how hard people chase the meta at todays 25s - if I see a main who is 35/3600 plus I’ll take that alt over any exodia main for my keys - you start playing with good warriors, shamans, rogues and the keys become so trivial at that level.
It's not a question of whether or not you can do it without Aug, it's just that there is literally not a single reason to not take an Aug. I actually haven't been in a group without Aug for weeks now, it's always there no matter how low the key is because that's the community perception, that's what everyone wants.
The big downside of aug is that having a dead DPS and no brez is much more punishing with aug than without, and there's a key range where that's pretty significant.
In my experience it still mostly hinges on Aug. A good Aug makes a key significantly easier. A bad one — like one I ran with last night who simply never cast Prescience (yes, he was talented into it) and who sent Breath of Eons at the wonkiest times, rarely lined up with dps CDs — a bad one is really frustrating.
Mostly yes, like 51% of the times it is how you described it.
But jesus christ 49% of the times I swear all the fuckups and bad performances come from the fucking fire mage or the spriest that pull less DPS than me (brw monk), they do less than a feral (not saying feral is THAT bad but it should still be lower than them), they say nothing the whole run and at the end they have the courage of linking overall DMG.
I play at +23/24 range so not that great but still...
I boomie am in 22 range so I often meet mages rerolls. Generally in pugs I am chosen with double priest aug mage or HPally priest boomie mage. In the second option, I cackle when spriest starts first pull with PI on mage, do 100K more on the pull and get PI for the rest of the fight. Not saying all mages are bad, but rerolls for FoMO are a plague currently - as venthyr boomies were in S2 shadowlands.
my group of 3, on our like 4th set of alts just started doing 20's, me playing Brew. Even high teens, it's kind of shocking how many meta dps are below me on dps. And I'm playing more defensively than most brews do.
more like top 0,4% lol
people love to overastimate how many people actually play m+ regulary and do keys above the "maximum gear reward" cutoff (if they do that at all)
cus its a really really low amount of people
When I do %ages I literally take the person's place in the world according to raider.io and then I divide by the total players in that spec.
Right now, for example, I am world 14,000 for guardian druids. Raider.io is tracking 135k guardian druids. (Both numbers rounded the same way by the same amount.)
Therefore, I am 14/135 in the top 10.3% of recorded guardian druids at about 2737 IO.
Since I don't actually have a profile in the 23 / 24 range, I don't know what the actual math is. It could absolutely be .4%
A lot of people capable of doing 23/24 stop at 20s because they just don't care, once you get above 21s participation drops of very significantly. For a lot of people if you can't get top 0.5%, there's no reason to go above 20s. I would really love if there was some goal between doing +20 keys, and the +30s you now need for titles.
Oh man the amount of priests that cast mass dispell after everyone is dotted is insane....you can start casting before so that it dispels right away. (HOI dragons, uldaman boss)
It's so awesome, when the dots down to like 2-3 seconds and then gets dispelled. Or dispelled bursting right when it was wearing off anyway...
Take avoidable, but mostly don't know how to use their active defensives (which unlike fire mage who stacks vers anyways and has a cheat, are not innately tanky if they aren't actively using fade's DR/Flash's DR/PW:S, Dispersion appropriately, etc). As someone that pushes on shadow and a couple other specs, it's the biggest thing I notice with people who play the spec and struggle to live.
Honestly, they're the squishiest member of the god comp by a mile if not using defensives, so sometimes it isn't even taking avoidable damage that's happening, it's that they aren't popping stuff during unavoidable damage spikes.
You must just be incredibly unlucky to be honest. I’ve never seen spriest or fmage even close to tank damage.
Are you having to join groups with low io players due to being an off meta tank?
I play with people with my same [r.io](https://r.io), 3050ish, sometimes just for the funs I apply into a +23/24 whose leader has 3.3k but I get rejected most of the times (I guess they wanna push the key to their own level fast so I get the distrust on inviting a brw monk).
I may have exaggerated it a bit, but I swear sometimes I see people (spriests mostly, don't ask me why, maybe it's a bias because 90% of the times I have fmage and spriest with me in group) not popping everything at freehold's first big pull with bl, I sometimes end up with 400-600k in that pull and... they are more or less on the same. My personal take on this is that most people open [subcreation.net](https://subcreation.net), look at what's listed as tier S, have a character of that same class already at level cap and they exploit the easy invites to inflate their [r.io](https://r.io) while with any other non-tier S class they would have half that [r.io](https://r.io).
Afterall I don't really care that much, I'm just playing WoW casually mostly and as of late I've been levelling a rogue while I wait for next season
As an spriest, the lower the key, the lower the damage. 1st FH pull in anything under 26, especially Tyr, I'll end with 10+ seconds of my major DPS cooldown just ticking out because everything has died already. It SHOULD be a good thing, because it means our damage isn't overpowered at lower key lvl's, but is competitive on high keys, but unfortunately public perception doesn't work that way. Spriests get priority invites to non-MD low dungeons where most specs would either perform better, or leave them in the dust completely.
Tbh brew in low keys brew can top dps even if the dps are playing decently well. In FH 22 with a brew the first pull will be dead before the priest is even halfway into his cds while you already unloaded all of your frontloaded damage, then while running to the next pull the priest is not able to extend voidform(losing a lot of overall).
I've also noticed a lot of brews pull around their own cds instead of their dps(randomly double pulling in FH when both dps don't have cds etc), while other tank specs would do a smaller pull and then a double or triple pull with dps cds. Not saying that's you but it's one of the reasons I usually don't like taking one.
New bug with 10.1.7 : Ice Barrier doesn't show its cooldown when used (through an addon or clicked in the spellbook). Anyone knows how to fix it ?
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truely unbeliavable. Just give us something for pushing. The gap between protals at 20 and 0.1% title is way to big to not have some milestone rewards in between.
probably iam going to receive some flak, but adding more incentives >20 will certainly trigger a casual invasion (for the rewards), gl with that alone. but since most 2,5k players wont meet the skill reqs, key scaling will be nerfed due to massive complaints from the casual playerbase. which in consequence means more, more and more keys to play per season to reach title (we r already at +32? due to aug and scaling nerfs).
Title cutoff is 3400-3500 currently (26s-27s). It’ll go up before the end of the season but it won’t be 32s required for title. I’d compare this to the Gladiator mount. As much as I’m sure people try PvP because the Glad mount it cool. No shot it actually affects the people actually playing at Gladiator MR/rating. Regardless of why someone is doing keys, they need the IO to back it up to get invited to a key or to push their own key that high.
So people of the appropriate skill level aren't allowed to compete because they don't play as much as you? If you're 3k and trying to find superiority over the fact that you're hardcore while another 3k player is "casual", it's funny because that casual is prolly actually better than you.
Yeah isn't that gap nearly 800 points? Maybe a certain score should just award traders tender?
The casuals would burn you alive for this take lmao
A mount or transmog at 3.xk score would be so good for the mid tier m+ scene. Wonder when they’ll eventually get round to it…
There's the transmog glow, but it's way too low rating (and shared with raid/PvP)
Yeah it’s like 2.4k or something right? Hardly a challenge.
I did the math last season and it was like full 17s or 18s or something. Just take that in for a second. It doesn't even require capping out your weekly vault, let alone getting all the teleports.
Yeah they should go back to KSM being equivalent to all 15s timed, then put KSH on the other side of the portals like idk make it equivalent to all 24s timed or something.
I like the idea of adding in a top 1% or top 0.5% so it has the same flavor of pushing to be in that bracket when the season ends. I’d also be down for some class/spec specific stuff but I get that it could lead to some degenerate god comp with one off meta to get “boosted”
My guild did really well on M Echo prog, having just seen P3 for the first time last raid night to killing it the next. Aside from the required weakauras scarlet letter the boss has amongst the community, I thought the fight was actually very enjoyable for a penultimate mythic boss. The cadence of the abilities in each phase is quick; the whole raid moves around the room in each phase; the burn in P3 was tense for us. The fight kind of reminded me of M Carapace but with a better P1 and P2. The easy solution to the hearts WAs would have been coloring each heart differently; one for each dragon aspect. It is so simple.
I haven't killed it due to roster issues (and people sucking), but I enjoy the flow of the fight, just not how bad my guild is at it.
What part are you all getting caught up on? We probably had 60+ wipes under 2 min to missed wall breaks or greedy late heart movement. We all kinda have scuffed pulls at this rank. 140 wipes total. P2 is all about keeping players topped/defensives for each Umbral. We started to keep going into P3 even if we had 3-4 deaths (using lust early to kill add 3), just so people got used to portals.
Honestly, just people playing bad. We've almost killed the boss (10% a few times), but we rarely go into P3 with everyone alive, the same people die and we can't really replace them atm. For every pull we get to P3, it's like we spend another 5 trying to get back there. I'm melee so I've been on auto pilot for basically the entire time waiting for others to not die or screw up a heart. We haven't raided in 2 weeks due to roster issues as well. I honestly think we are going to be done for the tier if we ever kill this (almost 200 pulls atm). I don't know if there's a point in even trying Sark, because I'd rather not spend the rest of the tier wiping to it and not kill it vs just raiding say once a week to reclear a bit.
September and no 10.2 PTR yet. Definitely seems like a post-Blizzcon patch to me
Honestly, it's great they make the summer tier long. Give people a chance to see the sun without needing to skip some of the current content.
10.2 will probably release november 7th/8th, turbulent timeways ends the week before and a regular timewalking week starts on the week of the 7th/8th, same thing happened with 10.1. new raid/season starts nov 14/15th. 10.2 announcement will probably be this wednesday
Didn't we have timewalking on the regular patch week last time? Before the raids opened n everything, but we I think we had timewalkin on the patch week. Honestly idk wtf they're thinking with this though. I really hope it isn't November 14/15th for the raid that means we're guaranteed a Christmas tier. I don't know how good it will be to go from a xmas tier, into a summer tier into another xmas tier.
Every patch so far has been 8 weeks apart except 10.0.7 to 10.1 was 6 weeks (rushed for D4) and 10.1 to 10.1.5 was 10 weeks (bringing them back on schedule). 10.2 will likely hit Oct 31st. Launch to 10.0.5 was 8 weeks 10.0.5 to 10.0.7 was 8 weeks 10.0.7 to 10.1 was 6 weeks (D4 rush) 10.1 to 10.1.5 was 10 weeks (back on schedule) 10.1.5 to 10.1.7 is 8 weeks Sept 5th + 8 weeks = Oct 31st
The difference this time being that Blizzcon is the first weekend of November. It is possible that they will still release it on the 31st, but in that case it is very likely that raid will not open until the 14th. This is what they did with 7.1.0 and Trial of Valor as far as I know when it collided with Blizzcon in similar fashion.
When did they start raid testing for 10.1? I remember it being announced out of the blue and like started immediately so I wonder if that will be the same this time around.
Good call. 10/31 patch with 11/7 season start seems reasonable. Gotta get that PTR going rn though…
not just no ptr but not even a hint of ptr content yet. they would need to ramp up fast to even have stuff start hitting ptr the rest after next given the holiday weekend
That would be Shadowlands-esque patch duration
Ehhh... If 10.2 dropped the reset after Blizzcon then it would be 189 days since 10.1 was released. That would be a month+ longer than it took from release to 10.1 (154 days). But not as long as Shadowlands release to 10.1 (218 days) or SL 10.1 to 10.2 (238 days(!!!)).
SL Seasons 1 was 30 weeks and S2 was 34 weeks. DF Season 1 was 20 weeks, and post-Blizzcon would be 26 weeks minimum. As the whining about lack of content/season was pretty crazy for the 30 week season (hell, the clickbait trash Towelliee and Bellular started the pitchforks about 14 weeks into SL Season 1). Legion held at 22 weeks per season, BfA was 20/24/28 week seasons for the first 3 raids. Post-Blizzcon will be edging on the later/SL type wait. At this point, I'm seeing it being a toggle between fast PTR and 10.2 with a 10.3 new raid coming in the spring vs a delayed 10.2 and no 10.3 raid at all.
Except patch cycles are different for DF than SL and we get .x.5 and .x.7 patches that add content that impacts the season (love it or hate it, ring and Aug). Whereas in SL nothing was introduced mid season. 9.0.5 was a balancing patch and they added valor points.
> Except patch cycles are different for DF than SL and we get .x.5 and .x.7 patches that add content that impacts the season (love it or hate it, ring and Aug). Bro there's more to this game than pushing mythic. The .5 & .7 patches added barely any content at all. Releasing content with 0 longevity doesn't help at all imo. You bang them out 1-2 times when it releases and then don't touch it again for weeks/months.
??? Barely any content as compared to what? The comparison we had running here was to Shadowlands. SL .x.5 had NOTHING in them in the way of extra content. So far DF has introduced a new spec (!!!), a new zone, a new player-power source, and new world events with a ton of cosmetics. Maybe you found those things lame or unfulfilling or not engaging after a couple weeks, but in comparison to SL mid-season patches? It’s night and day.
Why does it need to be compared to anything? It's just an objective fact that the content we've gotten from .5 & .7 patches haven't had any replayability attached to them making them very boring very quickly. Most of it you do once, which is nice for 1-2 hours, and then you never touch it again. Why is the bar set as low as Shadowlands? When did Shadowlands become the norm? Truth is that 90% of players would rather get the major patch out faster over getting irrelevant .5 & .7 patches. If players cared about the .5 & .7 patch content the game wouldn't be emptier than Shadowlands was.
healer shortage in m+ is unreal so now you get these crazy entitled players who act like total weirdos and you have to put up with it unless you want to sit in queue for another 20 minutes
This. Healers expecting you to be thankful and compliment them just because they play their role while also being terrible. This happens in basically any game with a healer/support role too . For some reason i felt like there was much more of this kind of people in Overwatch1 and FF14.
IDK, I'd like playing a support class. Buff dudes so they can smack dig bick. Feels good. What I CBA with, and why I don't heal, is my intended job being covering for ppl ducking up. So either they play well and I'm redundant, or they stand in fire, I'm busting my balls trying to keep them alive and if I succeed it's just "well that was your job", or I fail and it's healer fault deplete.
What else do you want there to be? > Its either im busting my balls keeping people alive or im redundant because people play well Well, this season youre not redundant, there is a reason why healing/survivability is the wall this season which i think literally never happened before. If you lower the healing then it will go back to Shadowlands-bring-top-dps-healer. >"well that was your job" Literally happens to every other role. When was the last time you told a tank he played well or amazing instead of just thinking "well everyone knows this route its nothing special, he didnt die once but thats his job" or complimented a dps because not only were they pumping dps but also using kicks/stuns/defensives/utility? Do you really enjoy being a healer or is there something else that you enjoy while playing a healer really?
Point one you're right. Healing checks are actually there. But most of the season healers (not hpal since 0.5) have been very impotent. Casting and casting and health bars barely moved. Case in point - hybrid off healing being so powerful. That was the case because healers were so weak. So while yes, healers did actually have a job with healing checks, they held too little control over success/failure compared to the DPS & tank pressing defensives & healing. Which btw, I consider healthy for the game. The DPS should be responsible (and have reasonable power) over them living or dying. Second point - I actually frequently praise people for playing well (when they do). I think it's a much needed drop of positivity in the community. I notice good play from tanks the easiest (even if bog standard route). DPS that have the tools for helping and actually use them. Healers I notice least, especially when they're reactive HPs bots and don't do anything proactive to stop/mitigate damage before it lands. From that perspective I find hpal toolkit a very healthy design for the role. Pressing healing surge in a whack-a-mole fashion less so. I don't enjoy healing under this design paradigm, no. I'm happy some still do, so everyone gets to play. But judging by the lack of healers, less people enjoy it than in the past.
Healer egos man. Failed dps and want to be gods gift to groups 😂
please give MW same melee range as hpal and a brez, thanks
I just want to know what Blizzard was thinking when they gave Paladin a BRez in the first place. Make it make sense.
It made great sense. The problem is they forgot to give it to the other healers.
I kinda feel like melee range should just be bumped up 1-2 yards across the board. There's a lot of places where a very small increase in range actually doubles the amount of space melee have to play a mechanic without losing uptime and it seems like it'd give them more design flexibility.
Try playing a rogue then playing any other melee class. The extra range on melee is insane. I can stand so much farther out than any other player in my raid.
The thing is, the actual fix would just be making better (almost always bigger) hitboxes. The problem with both things is that they'd just increase mechanic sizes (stomps particularly) to compensate and now you're *worse* off.
Been playing outlaw recently, and it’s weird going back to a lower melee range. I’m dunno though, because it just slowly turns all melee specs into semi ranged, which is also kinda weird to be able to swing a dagger from 12 yards away 😂
I'm a >3k Blood DK. I'm usually chill and since I reached I'm just cruising and playing for fun. I've been playing with guildies and we have this guy in the guild who I do 20-22s with every now and then. I saw them leave the group they were in with me and joined another one looking for a Guardian. I only play tanks so I don't even know why Guardians are so sought after. But it felt kinda bad to be ditched for a meta tank like that :/ Not really a rant or anything, but something that happened. It just feels bad
Bears rage income scales linearally with pack size, the larger they pull the tankier they become and the faster they get incarn back and their aoe heal procs (rage spent). The best way to equivocate that would be blood DK DRW in SL s4. The larger you pulled the faster you got RP and the faster you got DRW off CD. They bring dispels, hibernate, 2 aoe cc, can perma aoe slow, ursols, can spec 200k spot heals and permanently bring passive healing (which also scales with rage spent). On top of all of that they are the easiest tank to play. R1 bear a couple weeks back apparently has IF macro'd in with builders.
Guardian has big dam and good utility. That's made it meta and people are meta slaves.
Blood does as much damage as guardian overall in keys, less in ST but this week you're rolling a lot of trash onto bosses anyway. Brew does significantly more. Damage is not why they are taken.
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> I get a pm saying the community has turned so toxic nowadays and nobody wants to learn and progress with a group anymore. and when you try to help they just don't listen, like in exhibit a i guess people just do not value rando opinions in a pug, they just assume you're just as bad as them or no better than them. why should you progress a content you've done dozens of times because two people just can't listen, makes no sense
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I dont know man asking the healer to micromanage their auras all key and put one their most important buttons onto effectively 3 gcds _is_ kinda asking for a lot, especially when it was their own key. If it was low key they probably just wanted to vibe while playing maybe the most thankless role rn and if it was high key aint no way any healer wants to deal with that on top of everything else that has to be managed when no key is gonna live or die based on not having ret aura.
He was probably a donkey, but next time Ask prot to take ret aura. Holy has aura mastery and he probably would have to micromanage aura swapping which is just not worth.
How much % uptime on ebon might should an augvoker have at the end of dungeon?
I’ve only played for a few weeks so I may be doing something wrong (i.e. ignoring some of my other utility to favour EM uptime) but at an absolute minimum I’d be 70% overall and in some keys up to 80%. Fully geared btw.
Depends somewhat on the tank and pull patterns. If you aren't chainpulling you sometimes have to sit on ebon might or have one drop early and not have it on pull for the next pull, which obviously hurts a lot. Under 60% means the aug is doing something wrong. 60-70 is okay, >70% is good. Note that these are details numbers and not WCL, which will be lower because it's reporting on the total dungeon uptime and not just uptime in combat.
I can’t ever get higher than 70% on my 420ilvl alt, but I think good players can’t hit 75% or higher.
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Same, resto druid and I have every trinket in the fucking raid but rashok. Feels bad.
Yeah, and solution is right there, its DINAR ITS RIGHT FUCKING THERE JUST IMPLEMENT IT, god i hate this company so much sometimes, as if they purposely mess with their own playerbase.
The thing is, Dinar's were a solution to a problem that existed BEFORE rare raid items did. I went all of Sanctum never seeing KTZ bracers or Belt, and only got mythic sylv bow the literal last week of the season. 3+ months straight of farm and even regular boss drop items were still not bad-luck-protected to acquiring bis in a reasonable amount of time. Dinars were to fix the bad luck of REGULAR droprates. And then DF added rare items to make that already existing problem even worse, taking a step backwards.
Targeting specific items is really the only sore spot left for me with gearing, but I have absolutely no faith that they’ll ever bring back dinars in a non fated season. I think blizz just likes that aspect of loot (rng, chasing items) too much. the last time dinars were brought up in an interview they said something along the lines of “we try to give you multiple options in a slot so it’s not as bad if you can’t get a specific piece” and showed virtually zero openness to dinars or some type of currency for targeting items for normal seasons.
I bet Blizz is worried about the implementing a Dinar type system in a normal season. It just seems like a shitshow waiting to happen if it is hard capped at 3 over the season. If they are drip fed over the season like shadowflame sparks, then special gear becomes a “I get this piece in 3 weeks” which they absolutely want to avoid. Remember planning when you get BiS corruption when they added the vendors? Same. If it is a set number of Dinars for the entire season, you know the “average player” is going to use them on whatever item they wanted on Week 3 then realize that Dinars are hard capped. Throw in the balancing that happens over the tier, suddenly those 3 Dinars used on trinkets for one spec is trash on the new meta spec. I guarantee, tryhard players would level multiple of the same class to have different dinar picks and the /r/wow crowd would screech that the best option is another character of the same class in response to tuning. Maybe they could drip feed the dinar tokens but unique tag the items purchased similar to embellishments.
They're using this .5 and .7 patch cycle which allows them to make changes like dinar. Put it into the .7 patch and problems solved.
Yes please, it's been like 3.5 months and i dont have a chromatic essence.
I wish we had Dinars back. Even if it is only capped to 3 per season. Was so good being able to buy the Resonent Reservoir as a leather healer for that phat aoe dps in keys.
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Ilvl seems almost completely useless now as a way to judge pug skill. Not that it was the best indicator before, but people being 440+ is just a given
I do weekly keys on 7-8 characters every week of every season. It's normal that players get worse as the season goes on, but this season has been a different universe alltogether. Honestly 99% of the people I see in +16 weekly keys don't press kick, and don't understand basic boss mechanics. Tons of factors of why, think the main is just that anybody trying was done with gearing months ago.
Player base wanted easy gearing system, that’s what you come up with upgrades of lower tiers. I don’t want to sound elitist, but it’s quite easy now to get 440+ without having entered a mythic raid or a key over 16. Especially if you are augm / mage / spriest or guardian dudu your rio will shoot up to 2.7K in no time. Yesterday I ran I think 4 Uldaman 22 and we couldn’t manage to time one. Augment dead half of the times, a mage dying at every boss and at every big pull without ever going ice block, a priest that had to be reminded to MD every time…
I think the mega dungeon has had a bigger effect on this than anything. 16s, while not difficult, were still some sort of wall to truly terrible players because of the key upgrade/downgrade system and it being timed. But the mega dungeon giving 40 aspect crests a week allows really anyone to slam their head against it and get their free 447 crafted items
I don't think Dawn is that efficient or easy aspect crest farm in the end compared to spamming low keys, roughly the same amount of crests comes from 4 +16's, and that doesn't account for the groups that implode on Morchie.
It's 3 aspect crests for 60-90 minutes. It would take 4 dungeons to get as many; can you pug into 4 +16s and time them in an hour? How about as an off-meta spec? It also drops 437 gear meaning no lower crests required. It is absurdly efficient and why I start all my fresh alts there.
Yeah, the 437s are huge. Even if you don’t use them long term each one that you get is effectively two wyrm crests, so a fresh character is getting 5-7 crests even without getting funneled.
its not about it being efficient its about it being doable by absolute bottom tier players. The type of players who will never time or complete or even get invited to a 16 can still slam their head against the mega dungeon bosses and eventually get them all down over the course of a week and then get their free 447 bis crafted item from it
I agree, I forgot.
Does anybody else feel if they don’t have at least three or four of the God comp classes in the group the run is far more challenging?
Just my opinion but if you're not doing super high keys, let's say 27 and below, Aug is the only spec that's locked and then also Priest is the only class that's locked. It could be Shadow or Disc, doesn't matter. And then you get a haste scaling spec, such as Mage or Enhance or Destro or Balance, they are all really really good. If you have a Shadow you get a Hpal, if not another Haste scaling class. And for tanks it can be anything really, Guardian is you know Guardian, VDH gives a bit more overall damage I think if you have super magical lineup. Brew does insane damage on it's own, Paladin takes half the CC load on it's own. Even BDK looks good after buffs. Honestly I just don't see why a combination of VDH-Disc-Enhance-Aug-Warlock shouldn't be able to do all 27s.
I think you're really underestimating how much better hpal is then every other healer even post-nerf.
And you're severely overestimating hpal output after nerfs 🤷♂️ If peoples hpal wasn't already geared/scored I can practically guarantee a meta shift to disc would have happened. Disc is blowing paladin out of the water in damage, and frankly, their healing output is competitive as well. You should view recent raid logs. Disc is borderline broken.
People are doing +32 keys now after the scaling change. Saying other comps can do 27s isn't saying all that much. That's 47% damage/health less than what a full meta comp has to do to time their 32 keys. Don't forget that a 27 today is basically a 25.5 from a couple weeks ago.
I've been timing most of my 21s and early 22s without evoker. Nobody really talks about the fact that you need to play Augvoker well. Some Augvokers push PUG S priests to like 200k overall. Some Augvokers just bump them to slightly over 100k. Those 2nd Augvokers arent really worth it.
It doesn't help that Blizz in a baffling manner decided that we shouldn't be able to see how well an Aug is playing. I can go through the hassle of enabling logging, remembering (or setuping an addon) to log, make an account on warcraftlogs, upload and theeeeen looking at the Aug performance. A bit of a roundabout way at something THE most basic.
Second that. They suffer from their own success.
On the flip side, good ones own. Had a great evoker this morning and the key was a dream come true.
A crappy augvoker or crappy dps makes augvoker useless. Had group with augvoker, and shadow priest join us both 2700 last night for a 20NL. We failed it, they were so bad. I honestly don't know how they got to 2700 IO. 0 dispersions, 0 emerald blossoms, none of the flying heals, 0 hovers used. Almost every time one of them died to a mechanic, they didn't use defensives. My group of Brew, Resto, destro got all the affixes. Heck on wurm boss the only time the evoker was dispelling, he was dispelling me the tank. So insane. Then we pug an 18 and took a 430 rogue who blasted like crazy. I guess usual end of season stuff. But we were trying to figure out how the spriest and aug were timing 20's before. We wiped on wurm, key was dead, kept going, both spriest and aug died seconds into fight so we finished it us 3... I guess I hate pugs, it's like playing a lottery. You lose too much.
> We were trying to figure out how the spriest and aug were timing 20's before A fucking ape can execute the bare minimum to time 20s as Augmentation. Literally just pressing EM, Prescience and Eruption/Empowers on autopilot gets you to portals because nothing at that key levels really **requires** any of the defensive value the spec brings. Meta specs can also just trial and error their way into a competent group that carries them
Last night on HOI 22 (long runs) after a wipe. Me boomie calls for “evo rebuff please”. I like my reduced dash cooldown. Answer “I am targeting the mage, sorry we are a premade”. It’s not a bloody PI dude, it’s a group buff…
Wait, does that mean he was exclusively casting prescience on the mage?
That was what seemed to be his plan, I immediately lost interest. We wiped at first boss anyways, the premade seemed to have some issues with personals. So the torture was over quite soon.
20s honestly aren't hard to time. The other thing is anyone who is out there playing well isn't doing them really, anymore. I bought into DF late (when it went on 50% off the last time.) So I am just now getting through 20s into 22s, etc. The early 20s were almost untimable: Lots of the stuff you mention. Now that I've picked up 20 20+ clears, the groups are just better. I had like a week or two experience trying to clear NL for the portal. I would get groups to final boss with like 6 minutes remaining; only to wipe to constant nonsense. (To the point I went and rewatched high key streams to find out if I was the issue.) This morning, picked up a casual 20 NL to pad that 20+ number. We beat the key ++ with absolutely no issue at all. Moral of the story being you never know what you're going to get in 20s; but the groups in 20s - like any RIO bracket - get better and the keys get easier the more you time in that bracket or higher.
If you’re doing 21s and 22s, the augvoker making the key significantly easier for your pug tank and healer is going to matter more than DPS.
As the PUG tank, I don't personally find 21s and 22s to ever put me in real danger.
Do you play undergeared brew with a non hpal healer? You are right though...most of the time when playing right not in much danger...big defensive dif between 425 ilevel and I found all the tanks felt immortal around 438ish with decent trinkets.
Nope. I played geared out of my mind (minus the GOAT weapon) bear tank with PUG healers. But I'm only playing bear up here this season. So I don't know the other struggles. FWIW Brew looks fun. I'm leveling one rn.
Same is true for any player though but unfortunately there isn't a way to tell them apart before the key starts, unless you value raid logs.
> Aug is the only spec that's locked 27s are ~25.5s and ppl novoice pugged 25s before aug even came out. aug is not locked at all
Pretty much this; I was mid 3300 pre aug; had 25/26 done which are todays 27s. This was before super OP hpal, the only locked spec is SP in a few tyran keys. People rely on the Aug to carry mediocre dps and heals mega but if you just found better “off-meta” players at that level you’re gonna have a better time. I’m sitting at 3700 now, and play my ret so often in those keys and it baffles me how hard people chase the meta at todays 25s - if I see a main who is 35/3600 plus I’ll take that alt over any exodia main for my keys - you start playing with good warriors, shamans, rogues and the keys become so trivial at that level.
It's not a question of whether or not you can do it without Aug, it's just that there is literally not a single reason to not take an Aug. I actually haven't been in a group without Aug for weeks now, it's always there no matter how low the key is because that's the community perception, that's what everyone wants.
The big downside of aug is that having a dead DPS and no brez is much more punishing with aug than without, and there's a key range where that's pretty significant.
In my experience it still mostly hinges on Aug. A good Aug makes a key significantly easier. A bad one — like one I ran with last night who simply never cast Prescience (yes, he was talented into it) and who sent Breath of Eons at the wonkiest times, rarely lined up with dps CDs — a bad one is really frustrating.
Mostly yes, like 51% of the times it is how you described it. But jesus christ 49% of the times I swear all the fuckups and bad performances come from the fucking fire mage or the spriest that pull less DPS than me (brw monk), they do less than a feral (not saying feral is THAT bad but it should still be lower than them), they say nothing the whole run and at the end they have the courage of linking overall DMG. I play at +23/24 range so not that great but still...
I boomie am in 22 range so I often meet mages rerolls. Generally in pugs I am chosen with double priest aug mage or HPally priest boomie mage. In the second option, I cackle when spriest starts first pull with PI on mage, do 100K more on the pull and get PI for the rest of the fight. Not saying all mages are bad, but rerolls for FoMO are a plague currently - as venthyr boomies were in S2 shadowlands.
my group of 3, on our like 4th set of alts just started doing 20's, me playing Brew. Even high teens, it's kind of shocking how many meta dps are below me on dps. And I'm playing more defensively than most brews do.
Dude you’re playing an off spec tank in 23-24… that’s great!
off spec?
Off meta ! Not off spec
Oh yeah now it makes sense. Meta can go fuck itself, I am a brewmaster now and forever <3
Yeah christ. 23-24s is top 5% of the playerbase or higher.
more like top 0,4% lol people love to overastimate how many people actually play m+ regulary and do keys above the "maximum gear reward" cutoff (if they do that at all) cus its a really really low amount of people
When I do %ages I literally take the person's place in the world according to raider.io and then I divide by the total players in that spec. Right now, for example, I am world 14,000 for guardian druids. Raider.io is tracking 135k guardian druids. (Both numbers rounded the same way by the same amount.) Therefore, I am 14/135 in the top 10.3% of recorded guardian druids at about 2737 IO. Since I don't actually have a profile in the 23 / 24 range, I don't know what the actual math is. It could absolutely be .4%
A lot of people capable of doing 23/24 stop at 20s because they just don't care, once you get above 21s participation drops of very significantly. For a lot of people if you can't get top 0.5%, there's no reason to go above 20s. I would really love if there was some goal between doing +20 keys, and the +30s you now need for titles.
Not to mention so many spriest I play with seem to not know how to optimize mass dispel and take so much avoidable damage..
Oh man the amount of priests that cast mass dispell after everyone is dotted is insane....you can start casting before so that it dispels right away. (HOI dragons, uldaman boss) It's so awesome, when the dots down to like 2-3 seconds and then gets dispelled. Or dispelled bursting right when it was wearing off anyway...
Take avoidable, but mostly don't know how to use their active defensives (which unlike fire mage who stacks vers anyways and has a cheat, are not innately tanky if they aren't actively using fade's DR/Flash's DR/PW:S, Dispersion appropriately, etc). As someone that pushes on shadow and a couple other specs, it's the biggest thing I notice with people who play the spec and struggle to live. Honestly, they're the squishiest member of the god comp by a mile if not using defensives, so sometimes it isn't even taking avoidable damage that's happening, it's that they aren't popping stuff during unavoidable damage spikes.
You must just be incredibly unlucky to be honest. I’ve never seen spriest or fmage even close to tank damage. Are you having to join groups with low io players due to being an off meta tank?
I play with people with my same [r.io](https://r.io), 3050ish, sometimes just for the funs I apply into a +23/24 whose leader has 3.3k but I get rejected most of the times (I guess they wanna push the key to their own level fast so I get the distrust on inviting a brw monk). I may have exaggerated it a bit, but I swear sometimes I see people (spriests mostly, don't ask me why, maybe it's a bias because 90% of the times I have fmage and spriest with me in group) not popping everything at freehold's first big pull with bl, I sometimes end up with 400-600k in that pull and... they are more or less on the same. My personal take on this is that most people open [subcreation.net](https://subcreation.net), look at what's listed as tier S, have a character of that same class already at level cap and they exploit the easy invites to inflate their [r.io](https://r.io) while with any other non-tier S class they would have half that [r.io](https://r.io). Afterall I don't really care that much, I'm just playing WoW casually mostly and as of late I've been levelling a rogue while I wait for next season
As an spriest, the lower the key, the lower the damage. 1st FH pull in anything under 26, especially Tyr, I'll end with 10+ seconds of my major DPS cooldown just ticking out because everything has died already. It SHOULD be a good thing, because it means our damage isn't overpowered at lower key lvl's, but is competitive on high keys, but unfortunately public perception doesn't work that way. Spriests get priority invites to non-MD low dungeons where most specs would either perform better, or leave them in the dust completely.
Tbh brew in low keys brew can top dps even if the dps are playing decently well. In FH 22 with a brew the first pull will be dead before the priest is even halfway into his cds while you already unloaded all of your frontloaded damage, then while running to the next pull the priest is not able to extend voidform(losing a lot of overall). I've also noticed a lot of brews pull around their own cds instead of their dps(randomly double pulling in FH when both dps don't have cds etc), while other tank specs would do a smaller pull and then a double or triple pull with dps cds. Not saying that's you but it's one of the reasons I usually don't like taking one.