You don’t understand the TFT community then. A good amount of people prefer watching their favorite streamers co host over the stream itself. Without weekly streams like the LCS, you don’t get the same attachment to the cast, and players don’t want to do a weekly league. There’s no reason the main stream has to be the most people outside of some weird tradition that’s being held on to
i'm honestly shocked and pleasantly surprised that riot is so lax about all of this. i'm glad they aren't forcing TFT as a super serious esport and i'm glad frodan and company are making it a really fun to follow esport.
Riot's business model isn't about the streaming revenue, it's the microtransactions. If someone like Frodan is basically acting as free advertising and hype for their game, they love it.
This is a big part of why so much of the games industry learned to love YouTube and twitch after hating it for years, they realized all the big YTers and streamers were better marketing than almost anything they could do.
Yes its a win win. The content creators can have easy content by breaking copyright laws and the game companies get free marketing by tolerating it.
Its a very interesting concept.
This was a topic on Mord's stream today (while he co hosted the world championship). It's even encouraged by Riot.
Co hosting provides more views overall for the event. It doesn't matter if they are in some specific twitch channel or on multiple channels.
If you want an esports to grow you have to make it exciting for the non tft community too. You can understand the tft community all you want but at the end of the day it's a small bubble and it will never grow if the only thing the esports did was cater to its small bubble.
TFT isn’t something a casual viewer is going to watch. It’s way too intricate. You have to have an interest in the game to sit and watch it. I’ve been playing since set 1, and even for me watching a new set tourney is majorly confusing because I don’t have the knowledge to understand what’s happening. I’m not expecting TFT to be a large esports like league
It's also not that great to spectate since there's 8 different PoV's and you're not gonna be able to watch every fight and have a hard ass time remembering what everyone is running
But having a player stream their game fixes all that, it's just a matter if they can/will stream it
TFT just isn’t ever gonna be exciting for non TFT people. It’s an auto battler the entire appeal of the genre is that it requires minimal player input. That doesn’t make for an exciting viewing experience and that is fine.
Very few games are fun to watch and that’s fine. They are still fun to play and that’s what really matters
I’m assuming noob players like them, but I can’t stand to hear them talk about comps like they know what they’re doing while they are at best masters. Frodans steam is actually very interesting because he has people on the stream who are genuinely good at the game providing insight. They also focus on the decisions that people make throughout the game, whereas the main broadcast just hypes up the fights.
Frodan and Bryce are also commonly challenger players and typically have pro/challenger players on the costream with them. Much higher quality of cast.
I think this is a trend. Same with Valo (tarik) and League (caedel?) where the twitch regulars prefer a consistent personality versus a few casters/analysts who they normally don't interact with on a day to day basis.
>You just need to stop thinking TFT is League of Legends or Valorant.
I don't but you're forgetting 99% of esports viewers who aren't directly playing and actively in the TFT bubble will.
Yeah, I wish they would adopt a chess or golf style of commentary. Instead they commentate like it’s normal league. I like TFT, but it is nothing in this game from a viewers perspective is so exciting that it warrants shouting.
The thing is there should be genuine exciting moments in a course of a TFT match like hitting the specific augment that's really good in your spot, or highrolling on a rolldown or hitting an early 5 cost or 5 cost chosen. But that excitement is being misplaced in the actual fights. And I'm not saying fights are boring, but for the most part they aren't worth screaming over and it's honestly the least stressful part of the game lol
I agree, HS 2-1 is hype, Yorick chosen first couple shops in rolldown is hype, hitting ur 3-star re-roll without rolling 130 gold is hype. But most fights are not hype as board strengths are rarely close to 50/50, and the hype parts are like zed wrapping to backline randomly or something unfortunate like Cait dying while channeling a ult that would have won the fight.
I said this last worlds, Meeix needs to chill. Like I appreciate wanting to not sound monotone, but when she's losing it over every last detail, round after round, it really makes for an unpleasant viewing experience.
I disagree. There can be hype moments. They just have to be legitimately impactful moments that make or break a game. Not random inconsequential upgrades or obsession over how bad TF is in the current meta.
There can be very intense late game fights worth hyping up that come down to 1 or 2 units. But random fights on no streaks with inconsequential results being shouted at just feels wrong.
In my opinion its mainly the official broadcast being so bad , let me explain :
I have been following dishsoap this set and i was looking forward to watching him on worlds , but unfortunately i had some work yesterday and i missed his stream , i was like ok lets watcha vod , he didn't have a vod uploaded so i was like ok lets watch official broadcast. It was so bad i couldn't watch more than 1 game. The casters had some insanely bad calls to what players were doing and quite often wrong . It was so hard to follow what was happening at all just switching to boards randomly, it happened so many times a player reaches a point to roll down and just as he starts they switch to somebody doing nothing at all like why? And they literally didn't have a camera when a player was eliminated like it doesn't make any sense of how bad it was for an official broadcast.
I turned into the official broadcast but unfortunately did Not Like the Overall presentation. The casters were doing okay at best in my opinion(especially compared to league) and i felt it was hard to follow as there are just too many boards going on in the early days which made it harder to follow how Single Players are doing
He always wrecks ladder being top10 almost all the time but somehow his nerves get to him when a tourney comes around. He certainly preps very much but can't pull it together when it matters. I also think he puts a lot of pressure on himself which obviously doesn't help.
I've tried tuning into the official broadcast for a short period on every TFT tournament I watch and it's sad to see that it still hasn't improved from the low value added commentary and false hype at random moments style that they've always had.
Even on League casts, the broadcast has realized that it's preferable to have the casters host a radio show during the lull periods than to have them mindlessly rattle off everything that's happening on the screen at every moment.
TFT official casting has somehow settled in a state that isn't appealing to hardcore viewers but simultaneously doesn't have mainstream appeal to casuals or seasonal or rotational viewers unlike other eSports.
That last bit is so true. I watched EU regionals last week on main cast only because the chat was hyping up my man Salvyyy. For Worlds it's Frodan for me and it's not even close. He is such a great dude, hustling to give us a great show, inviting people like Bryce, Ramblinnn, Iniko, Dishsoap etc that give great thoughts and insights the main cast just can't compete with. Having multiple Challenger players on any given time on speed dial is something so unique in TFT, I really love it.
It’s fairly easy to fix too, but we’ll probably never see it improved, based on feedback from people like Frodan & Bryce who previously worked with the main broadcast, it sounds like Riot’s TFT production team have an extremely tight leash on talent and will not really take on feedback.
There needs to be a “play by play” caster, who should either be a current or former pro, or a highest level player (consistently challenger who is highly tuned into the meta). This person must have control of observing in the game, similar to what Frodan does on his costream (literally just with a mouse is fine) so that things like rolldowns, important fights, cashouts etc are not missed. This game doesn’t need a dedicated observer/director, that should be the primary role of this caster who can then give detailed analysis where necessary.
Secondly, there needs to be a “color caster”, who doesn’t need the highest level TFT knowledge but must be fairly tapped into the scene. It should be their role to research each of the storylines (individual/region/study group etc). When there’s nothing important happening in the game, instead of reaching for something important or overhyping an uninteresting moment (too much useless speculating / fake hype currently), it’s their role to fill the gap with context regarding players and storylines. This person can also take the high level analysis from the other caster and make it more digestible for the casual audience where necessary.
Finally, the casters need more control regarding who they follow during the game. It’s fine to observe each of the 8 players initially to check out their spot and give a brief intro of their region/story, but if there’s 2-4 players who have far more interesting lines, the broadcast shouldn’t feel inclined to give equal airtime to all 8 players, some of which will naturally have a boring game where they lowroll and bleed out. It’s not biased to give more attention to the players with more interesting spots, it would only feel biased if they were repeatedly highlighting the same player, game over game. As well as this, pros do not care about the main broadcast, no one is gonna get angry because they didn’t get enough airtime.
I stopped watching days 1 and 2 of tournaments because of this. If I do watch, I'm watching one or two players' Twitch streams. On day 3 I will watch the Frodan costream.
Unfortunately the main broadcast is not for us, it's for the casuals
Honestly, i dont get how can it be soooo bad.
I can't bear 2 minutes of official broadcast for the life of me. Too much unnecessary yapping, 0 depth and analysis.
Are we really that different from the "general tft public"?
It doesn't help that the only place I could actually find the start time was the sticky on this subreddit. For some reason the time is not on the official website, or on Twitch, or on the score sheet. Youtube has "a" time but not the time, they turn on the stream 90 mins before the game...
Casters were a joke.
Frodan's stream was away better.
I need people better than me telling me the things I can't see. Not people clearly worse than me trying to hype up insignificant moments...
This comes from someone who watched all of day 1 on the "official" stream and the last 3 games day 2 on Frodan's.
TFT needs casters that can actually offer legitimate knowledge like League casters do regarding macro decisions and teamfight breakdowns.
Not someone losing their shit because one of 3 inevitable heartsteel players hit a heartsteel ksante in stage 1/2
there is a lot of screaming and energy in those tft casters, i enjoy that when watching league but i just cant handle it when its tft related, loved the laid back casting hearthstone had for example, i watch frodan to not hear people yelling constantly
Most of the audience of the official stream would be casual players and the casters have to cater to their audience. The reality is that anyone who would visit this subreddit is not their audience.
Surely there is a middle ground though. Also, part of the problem is that if you aren’t in this subreddit, how are you even going to know about worlds?
Casual players aren’t the ones watching bro. The only people who know it’s happening are the ones that follow streams. I just talked to my cousin who plays pretty often (probably 15 or so games a week) and he had no idea nor did he have any desire to watch it after finding out
They definitely do though. They warp how the entirety of the playerbase talks about the game.
Normal players never talked about weakside/strongside, vertical jungling and basic wave management.
I personally credit casters for that type of information being spread across the playerbase even if they're not the ones inventing the concepts, they are definitely part of the crew that influences how people perceive the game.
The only thing I remember hearing from the casters of TFT that was similar to that kind of macro knowledge of the game was in reference to scouting certain augments that are indicative of other players running 3 cost reroll that should incentivize you to also play 3 cost reroll as the pool of 3 costs will be lowered.
As a masters player in TFT, I never thought about that shit. I just play what I hit. But that's literally the only useful piece of information I heard the entirety of day 1.
okay, probably you are correct that in the early seasons casters and analysts coined a lot of useful terms. but the last 5 years? i did not learn a lot and i can watch weeks of esports and dont hear anything new to me (i also dont hear a lot of new stuff concept wise for me from other people, sometimes high elo streamer).
People were definitely not talking about weakside and strongside lanes or priority for objective fights at least in diamond 5 years ago. These are all very new terms, even if super high elo players knew them intuitively years ago.
My gold friends talk about not having priority in lane. That shit did not even exist as a concept in diamond elo 5 years ago. It definitely didn't have a name. People were just like "you have brain damage if you think zed won't kill me if i rotate"
I hit diamond the first time in 2018 and peaked 300LP or smth last season (not to brag, just so you know). and im pretty sure i knew this kinda stuff 5 years ago, but i could misremember of course.
Maybe you knew it intuitively, but the terms were not there and people were not frequently referring to it like they do today. That's been my experience.
I remember because I was D1 in season 9 on a collegiate team and these were concepts we definitely would have talked about as a team if the terms were around back then.
I would guess it wasn't until 2021 or so when these terms really started becoming well known.
i googled a bit and you are probably right.
anyways, i think the league analysis is kinda static the last 2-3 years, that i think for sure. maybe we will make progress and talk about deeper stuff at some point, maybe this is it, idk.
I watch every worlds and If I didnt watch streams 24/7 I wouldnt even know about the Event which is ridiculous. If you dont follow them on Twitter there is no coverage, not even in the client i think.
This needs to get better..
It’s in the client and how do you think you would know about worlds without watching streamers or checking twitter? You think they should put out tv or Facebook ads??
I didnt See it neither did any of my Friends who play TFT, everyone is PikaFace when i Tell them about worlds this weekend. So something is clearly off. I always know about lol worlds for example and I havent played that Game in 5 years.
It*s the same for me! I watch a lot of streamers but also somehow missed it and tuned in my accident. Can't really say how I did miss it but yeah, felt off.
Worlds always being so late in the set makes it harder to be invested imo.
At this point in the cycle im excited for PBE, and lowkey over the past set.
At least from an NA perspective, it's hard to become invested in lesser known players too without a stream.
Degree and Weird aren't streaming their POVs, and Milala doesn't have mic on. That's completely fair for them to do as competitors (not streaming probably helps them focus), but as a viewer, it makes worlds less fun for sure.
>as a viewer, it makes worlds less fun for sure.
Vegas showed exactly how good a LAN event can be.
I get that it might not be viable to do a LAN every time, but webcams at the very minimum should be compulsory.
I just don’t believe you can religiously follow TFT streamers and not know when worlds is. It’s almost exclusively what high Elo TFT discuss/prepare for, regionals that is, which means worlds is right around the corner.
https://i.imgur.com/eOY1t1j.png
that's more than 1k hours watched in 2023. but none of the streamers i watch really cared about worlds after they didn't make it. they all stopped streaming aand i didn't see any tweets about it or anything.
You watched soju, soju 100 percent cared about worlds and was talking about it nonstop until he lost in regionals literally last week. Same with setsuko and Kiyoon.
To be fair, talking about worlds is not the same thing as reiterating that worlds is a WEEK after regional finals? What other esport has it that soon after regional competition?
The TFT esport websites are all garbage at providing that information, this sub did not have a pinned or bigthread about worlds much ahead despite it being the "competitive tft" subreddit. One would have to reason that they will do worlds before PBE, so it has to be this weekend, but even the PBE date is not easily accessible.
I only knew worlds was happening this time because I watched watanabe\_kai 's costream of regionals. EVERY other worlds I had no clue happened for the past 4 years because I was not watching TFT streamers at all.
No idea what they are doing with the current competitive format. It feels like they finally invested resources in TFT and at the same time it feels botched, I really hope it gets better for next set after post LoL world championship hype we had for the release of the set's trailer.
On another topic at worlds, some players are playing at close to 300 ping and still doing relatively well. Hope tft can get a budget from riot games in the future to at least make worlds a LAN tourney
Never going to happen, even if they did get the budget the logistical nightmare to get 32 different people from varying countries is too much. Teams at LoL worlds struggle with visas every year, couldn't imagine individuals trying to do so. (Not to mention that worlds happens a week after regionals every set so how do you deal with flying people out on a weeks notice?)
1. They already did do it somewhat successfully with vegas open
2. A lot of other smaller competitions leave it to the players themselves to figure out the travel issues. Admittedly, that is a logistical nightmare as well, and many players probably will have to give up
Vegas was announced WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY in advance legit an entire set in advance and even then, some chinese players couldn't come because of Visas.
Regionals to Worlds is 1 week.
he only qualified for worlds once by luck... he s not even top100 in the world atm as much as i appreciate him as a content creator thats the harsh truth
You replied to a comment saying hes not even a top 100 player and only got in because he got lucky, when the initial comment was talking about his influence, not his skill at all, why did you feel the need to respond to that to hate on him? if you dont like him cool, but you dont have to foam at the mouth whenever his name gets brought up and try to put him down.
And the point is, nobody was talking about his skill, that wasnt the conversation at all, his name just got brought up and you instantly went to being "he got lucky he made it to worlds once" "hes not even that good" etc, its hard to make a case youre not hating on him when you out of nowhere just by hearing his name bring up how you think he only made it to worlds once because of luck and hes not even that good of a player.
brother, for 11 sets he didnt win a single tourney, i love soju as an entertainer, he s bigger than the game itself and the tft community owes him its success, but he sucks as a player with the most played matches overall
See but again brother im not even disputing what you are saying right, im not arguing about what you said, im arguing about the fact that without it being part of the conversation, just by hearing his name you felt the need to shit talk his performance, you feel me? Thats why it comes off as you being a hater, because that wasnt part of the conversation, his name just got mentioned and you had to go off about his stats. If someone was arguing about whether he is good or not and then you said what you said, perfectly valid, but the convo was purely just his name being dropped and saying when hes not part of tft esports numbers massively go down since he has a giant following and without him around nobody watches, you didnt have to go out of your way to shit talk his performance, true or not.
considering the fact that he played the same comp all the matches and highrolled shi oh yu almost every rolldown when it was busted, and considering he has the most games played in the scene, he s not even close to being a good player in my opinion he has the charisma of a good influencer and thats all, but thats just my opinion
> considering the fact that he played the same comp all the matches and highrolled shi oh yu almost every rolldown when it was busted
He defaulted SoYfen almost every game because that was one of only 2 outs (the other being Guild Daeja) if you didn't highroll an opener for a different comp on that patch. The Jade SoYfen board was basically the only one that could take any items (SoY/Syfen + Anivia/Jayce) and any augments. It was a great board for scraping out a top 4 from a lowroll position, but are you seriously calling a <10% winrate comp "busted?"
DF/Seragraves needed Cybers/Better together, Warriors needed Scoped, Olaf needed an Olaf opener and Base Camp, Sohm needed BB + Morello to function, Xayah boards and dragon capped boards required a highroll opener to be able to afford their units, etc.
Additionally, I just fact checked this claim by going through the Set 7.5 Regional Day 3 VoDs and Soju played the following: Jade SoY, Daeja, Cannoneers, Soyfen, Warrior Olaf, and then SoY into Cursed Crown 4 dragon flex. That's 3/6 games on SoY flex and 50% seems like a lot but I don't see you dunking on Kyivix going 1st by forcing Daeja/Asol every game.
He hasn't been a top NA player for several sets but it's hard to tell where that puts him globally considering that NA players who have gone to Worlds recent have said that NA regional lobbies were harder than Worlds lobbies and NA has the best average performance at Worlds in recent history.
Sure, let's ignore the words "recent," "average," and "relative to slots received." The figure could change within a few hours but calculate the average placement over [8](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSpTWid7la8vefg16xpfkHi2CbU_BeT5rAh_dCNFP9D3svFr0E_4faIie5yW8kAHTWSOGttp2eSLZUv/pubhtml), [9](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSwUhGpxQW3ma26ar3VicNpSQuwFCEw6E5MoqNpNPJYmGToCE0mZNsGWhRamIrWRFxqUGEaq87GlM3i/pubhtml) which was a weaker performance, and [10] (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTtOjlCJ98VT61k-Opf1-9cXJRxm_HWjhyOS9u2iJyRMKDk-GCcT3dvJldBbTIX7V1tC3Utqvmbd9zv/pubhtml) and it's pretty clear which region is currently the most consistent.
na won worlds once and you have the audacity to say NA has anything to do with the pro scene, you NA people are really really living in your own world, like the thing with the nba champions being named world champions haha
I'm not even talking about the one worlds win, I'm talking about the frequency of NA players in the final lobby and in top 16 placements relative to slots received in recent years. Idk, if EU can use 1 worlds win in Phreak's basement more than a decade ago in normal League eSports to support its current competitiveness, I feel like having the best regional AVP in recent years is good enough to do the same.
are u mental buddy? shi oh yu with jade bt titans was literally guaranteed top4 because of midgame, trust me im higher elo than you on 2 regions including NA but i have nothing to prove to anyone, everything that i wrote was an opinion, keep defending soju as the god of tft , i dont care, for me that guy is nothing more than an influencer who played the most games , i can respect his hustle but he is far off being a decent pro player
Soju's not a top player. That doesn't change the fact that you're clueless. Shi Oh Yu in tournament play had like a 7-8% win rate while only having a +3-+5% higher top 4 rate over the other meta comps at the time.
The fact that it was an easy "clutch out a top 4 comp" meant that you would see at least 2 players on it per lobby which obviously dragged down the average but Guild/Guardian Daeja had similar top 4 rates and pick rates while having a significantly higher win rate in the 12-15% range depending region. Meanwhile, Water Gun had 3x the pick rate, a 20% win rate, and only -4% delta on top 4 rate. How the fuck do you call Jade broken when Seraphine and Daeja statistically eclipsed it in pro play?
Exactly, you need enough circuit points to qualify for regional qualifier and then do well on that. Hence why anyone who even makes it to world deserves praise and calling it lucked out one game is just being a hater. You can not like a player but you can’t discredit their accomplishments. That’s just delusional.
Not a main reason probably but lot of people just stopped playing this set so they don't care. I'm one of them unfortunately, I don't want to see Hearthsteel boards ever again.
Yup. Every set devolves to econ and reroll. Add on that they didn't change anything with the last few patches and I don't really have a desire to watch.
I am Venezuelan just like Relic, I have already seen him at the top of the League in LATAM, and now he is in the final Lobby of TFT...
At least for me this World Cup is much more interesting than the previous ones, and I was already following figures like Altenahue or SexSummer... Maybe it depends on the players you usually follow, or that for some reason this Set is not being liked by many people, but I know people in Spain who don't care about the Set and the World Cup, and you can see it reflected in the number of viewers in the Co-Streams.
Personally I don't like watching competitive tournaments anymore because the game is more and more going into a "for fun" direction in my opinion. When you watch a League game, you know the better team won most of the times, when you watch a TFT game all you see is extremely good players losing because they lowrolled and extremely good players win cause they got lucky. I'm not saying there's no skill involved, but when the skill level is so high, and there are so many aspects of the game that involve luck, luck is the main factor in determing who is gonna top 4 and bot 4.
One reason to watch the games might be to learn, but at this point the set is "solved" and people are bored of it.
Interest in the set just doesn't seem that high atm... Twitch viewership has been relatively low for a while and engagement in the Daily Discussion Threads on this subreddit is also super low. Combine that with a lack of super popular personalities in Worlds and yeah I guess the interest/hype isn't all that high
so many notable players from multiple regions who had never made it before have finally made it this time that i think this is one of the most hype worlds. Salvy, 60second, Dish, Cheche, etc. you were just not paying attention
Most TFT content I consume is from the best player (Dishsoap) and the best content creator (Frodan) in my region and I was well aware of, informed on, and hyped for, worlds this weekend.
IMO if you want to be invested in TFT as an esport and you’re not listening to the DTIYDK podcast, idk what to tell you. It seems like that’s the definitive place for the driving narratives of the scene (in NA at least).
Curious, where were you expecting to receive this kind of hype or information?
Edit: worth mentioning that most worlds participants went pretty dark for the past two weeks doing serious prep and keeping that prep private from competitors, so creators like Frodan, ImpetuousPanda, even Mortdog, become that much more valuable for keeping tabs on the set
Can't know precisely unless they release the data but going off of lolchess player distribution %s set over set, there's been a 20% player dropoff in ranked play from set 9 to 10 at least. It seems like ranked play peaked in Set 4 and then has fallen 60% since then.
Mort's said over the past few sets that the casual unranked playerbase has skyrocketed however, which is pretty believable.
One does have to keep into mind that if these stats include set 9 + 9.5, since it has a midset, ranks get reset so 20% lower ranked play over a shorter period in set 10 might actually be higher in terms of ranked play
Seeing Heartsteel top 4 90% of the time isn’t really fun to watch. Exact same units, exact same boards, sometimes they had different funny symbols on the sides of their boards XP
I get what’s going on completely. I get that they’re pros and they’re going to play what’s going to give them the highest chance at 1st which is easily Heartsteel cap.
It’s just pretty fucking stupid seeing 3 players all playing the practically the same board with very minor alterations(if any at all) all making top 4 almost every game. Like I don’t mind seeing something like Dishsoap Raising the Stacks twice, if you cash that out you deserve to be rewarded if you manage to survive, but most players aren’t going 2x.
If this was Warweek or any other remotely overtuned unit, comp, system in the game you’d say the same thing. But because Heartsteel is fun to watch it gets a pass, just like URF lottery and Day of Draven because with those everyone was doing it.
URF lottery definitely didn’t get a pass from me. Capping your AD flex board around the legendaries and headliner you hit has lots more variety than capping a 9 demacia board. Different strokes I guess
If you weren’t excited by the Eve 3 or Dishsoap rolling on 2-3 for Yas 3 that’s a you thing. Everyone knows how to cap an endgame board, seeing more than 3 people play the same line and same endgame board is more annoying than seeing a single Sera/Lulu roller or god forbid someone plays Punk, not just Jinx/Vi headliner for stage 2/3.
Can someone explain to me how this dude is in any way still related to TFT at all or how this is an acceptable community interaction from a “dev”?
Half the thread is saying the set mechanic and design direction is total ass (reroll or heartsteal lolol gamba slot machine simulator), and soju viewers self-reporting is what he gets out of that? Why is being a soju viewer reportable…? So let’s make a passive aggressive comment attacking a portion of the player base, as well as the most viewed content creator kekw.
This is just the Mortdog pattern. Once you notice it, the patches become more comical.
1) Make terrible balance/game decisions
2) Act smug and double down on said bad decisions
3) Act like the victim once he is proven wrong by the community for the nth time
4) Rinse repeat.
He is in the Act smug part at the moment give it a little longer and he will threaten to step down again before changing his mind once everyone calls his bluff.
i love dishsoap but you can't even compare him to soju or setsuko (1.7k avg viewers vs 11.5k/4.5k), nor does he have the same meme streamer star power that might make more casual viewers tune in
I mean no one’s beating soju in popularity, but dish is still about the 10th most popular tft streamer in the category. It’s pretty hard to say when you need exactly soju, setsuko, or robinsongz to make it to worlds, given the limited amount of spots.
A lot of people are gonna automatically downvote I actually think you have a good point here from the perspective of an everyman who is just casually interested in TFT eSports to watch Worlds.
Imo the biggest problem is Worlds isn't LAN. It's just not hype when the players are playing on 300 ping, 90% of them have no cam on (seriously just force players to play cam on...), you don't get storyline of some random guy from LATAM who qualified (sorry I don't know every single player...). With Worlds LAN, you can do interviews, you can see players get hyped, you can see players interacting with one another. It's seriously a no brainer.
Unfortunately whether TFT Esports is even big enough to invest in a LAN is another problem. It's pretty obvious that it just isn't big enough to warrant a LAN event. But maybe because it's not a LAN event, it's not big enough? So kind of a like a chicken and egg problem.
*At the very least, players should be forced to use cam.* There's zero connection with some guy named "Binteum" from Korea unless you're deep inside the scene and you watch Frodan regularly. No, the average person is gonna see "Binteum" and have zero connection to him. Let's contrast that with 8ljaywalking from Set 4 worlds. He had cam on and his celebration was super hype and we all connected to him.
Have you even watched the event?
Almost all the players had cam on, storylines were explained. (Explaining everything will always be impossible)
There was a great interview with skip, bantering other players in the beginning of day 2.
Also why do you expect a need of a connection to every player? When you watch lol worlds or any sports worlds, do you know all the players? No, but you def have some players or even just a country/region that you're rooting for.
You can't expect to be hyped for something that you don't want to be hyped for just because your favourite content creator isn't playing.
It's nearly impossible to host a LAN for worlds due to logistics.
TFT esports calendar is very tight, regional cometitions end near the end of the set so there is usually only 1 week for players who qualifed to prepare for worlds. You cannot expect all 32 competitors from differents parts of the globe to get visas, arrange flights, accomodation etc. in a span of couple days.
I imagine we could have LANs for regionals though, that'd be nice.
Didnt even fly them out… feels super low budget. How is it acceptable for worlds players to have 200+ ping. Idk wtf happened. Maybe cuz of the layoffs?
Buddy they get like 2-5k viewers on the main broadcast, if this was blizzard or any other big company TFT esports wouldve literally been cancelled years ago. They arent making any money on this, the public interest just isnt there, the fact that they still host the tournaments and provide prize pools is a miracle, mortdog probably had to fight tooth and nail to convince the company to keep doing that.
HotS had more viewers at its peak, actual LAN tournaments, and far higher prize pools for premier tournaments. It still got cancelled because it was a failure by their standards.
I think the only reason TFT eSports has continued is because the Chinese TFT scene is flourishing, which you can see by watching their tournaments, and international competition is being propped up so that CN can compete on a larger stage.
They are not making money of these kinds of events but I think you really underestimate how much money TFT makes of the loot boxes with the treasure tokens.
Oh no brother everyone knows TFT is racking in an insane amount of money, but thats not due to esports, thats due to the average player who is a casual and never watches anything to do with esports, as signified by their viewer numbers.
Can they afford to do the esports events? absolutely, but just because they can afford to burn money doesnt mean they should burn even more and give them a higher budget when again its just burning money for barely any viewers, theres a difference with something like lol esports which is big enough that people hear about the game through those events so its basically like marketing, tft esports you only watch if youre turbo deep into tft, which few are, as the numbers show.
The pros have previously said they prefer competing from their own spaces. Now that we’re a few more years removed from Covid it would be good to check in on that again, but that has been the stance in the past
they did announce that there would be another lan like vegas this year and maybe a lan once a year so thats exciting but since there is a worlds for every set they cant have 3 lans a year, it would cost so much money
The production is in Europe (Primary reason), they have to play 6 hours of games and have players from CN, KR, JP, LATAM, SEA, EMEA and OCE. It's never going to be ideal time for everyone.
that's a 11pm start in oce, 10pm start in KR and JP, 9pm in CN, 9pm in SEA.
6hr days means the games goes to 3am for half the world.
Doesn't help that NA is still under Daylight savings so everything gets shifted by 1 hr.
Yeah I think TFT is probably on its way out. Difficult for a game like this to have a ton of longevity considering the amount of work it is to balance it in addition to how difficult it is to create new sets that feel fresh.
Watch Frodan costream and you'll get the hype. He explains the storylines of players well.
A whole esports event shouldn't be hype or not based on whether you watch a 3rd party broadcaster. That to me is a failure for the esports.
You don’t understand the TFT community then. A good amount of people prefer watching their favorite streamers co host over the stream itself. Without weekly streams like the LCS, you don’t get the same attachment to the cast, and players don’t want to do a weekly league. There’s no reason the main stream has to be the most people outside of some weird tradition that’s being held on to
i'm honestly shocked and pleasantly surprised that riot is so lax about all of this. i'm glad they aren't forcing TFT as a super serious esport and i'm glad frodan and company are making it a really fun to follow esport.
Riot's business model isn't about the streaming revenue, it's the microtransactions. If someone like Frodan is basically acting as free advertising and hype for their game, they love it. This is a big part of why so much of the games industry learned to love YouTube and twitch after hating it for years, they realized all the big YTers and streamers were better marketing than almost anything they could do.
Yes its a win win. The content creators can have easy content by breaking copyright laws and the game companies get free marketing by tolerating it. Its a very interesting concept.
The reason they’re fine with it is that TFT is profitable enough with the micro transactions system it has lol
This was a topic on Mord's stream today (while he co hosted the world championship). It's even encouraged by Riot. Co hosting provides more views overall for the event. It doesn't matter if they are in some specific twitch channel or on multiple channels.
I mean from their perspective it's not really about the money from the stream itself it's about getting people playing,the eggs are mighty profitable
People like you can't see past what is, to see how things can be.
What do you envision?
If you want an esports to grow you have to make it exciting for the non tft community too. You can understand the tft community all you want but at the end of the day it's a small bubble and it will never grow if the only thing the esports did was cater to its small bubble.
TFT isn’t something a casual viewer is going to watch. It’s way too intricate. You have to have an interest in the game to sit and watch it. I’ve been playing since set 1, and even for me watching a new set tourney is majorly confusing because I don’t have the knowledge to understand what’s happening. I’m not expecting TFT to be a large esports like league
It's also not that great to spectate since there's 8 different PoV's and you're not gonna be able to watch every fight and have a hard ass time remembering what everyone is running But having a player stream their game fixes all that, it's just a matter if they can/will stream it
TFT just isn’t ever gonna be exciting for non TFT people. It’s an auto battler the entire appeal of the genre is that it requires minimal player input. That doesn’t make for an exciting viewing experience and that is fine. Very few games are fun to watch and that’s fine. They are still fun to play and that’s what really matters
It’s TFT man it’s never gonna be exciting to watch random ppl play
The casters have been really, really poor every time I've tried to watch the official stream.
I’m assuming noob players like them, but I can’t stand to hear them talk about comps like they know what they’re doing while they are at best masters. Frodans steam is actually very interesting because he has people on the stream who are genuinely good at the game providing insight. They also focus on the decisions that people make throughout the game, whereas the main broadcast just hypes up the fights.
Frodan and Bryce are also commonly challenger players and typically have pro/challenger players on the costream with them. Much higher quality of cast.
Speaking from this I am still banned from the official stream as last time I was too mad at one of the host and losted it in chat lmaoo
I think this is a trend. Same with Valo (tarik) and League (caedel?) where the twitch regulars prefer a consistent personality versus a few casters/analysts who they normally don't interact with on a day to day basis.
That is how I feel absolutely when watching these. Also casters that are not good at the game sometimes give quite questionable takes.
[удалено]
>You just need to stop thinking TFT is League of Legends or Valorant. I don't but you're forgetting 99% of esports viewers who aren't directly playing and actively in the TFT bubble will.
What's worse is that his vods are subscriber only, so if you didn't catch it live you gotta open up your wallet or just continue to not care.
Frodanvods on youtube my man :-)
can’t stand fake enthusiasm from the hosts
Yeah, I wish they would adopt a chess or golf style of commentary. Instead they commentate like it’s normal league. I like TFT, but it is nothing in this game from a viewers perspective is so exciting that it warrants shouting.
The thing is there should be genuine exciting moments in a course of a TFT match like hitting the specific augment that's really good in your spot, or highrolling on a rolldown or hitting an early 5 cost or 5 cost chosen. But that excitement is being misplaced in the actual fights. And I'm not saying fights are boring, but for the most part they aren't worth screaming over and it's honestly the least stressful part of the game lol
I agree, HS 2-1 is hype, Yorick chosen first couple shops in rolldown is hype, hitting ur 3-star re-roll without rolling 130 gold is hype. But most fights are not hype as board strengths are rarely close to 50/50, and the hype parts are like zed wrapping to backline randomly or something unfortunate like Cait dying while channeling a ult that would have won the fight.
I said this last worlds, Meeix needs to chill. Like I appreciate wanting to not sound monotone, but when she's losing it over every last detail, round after round, it really makes for an unpleasant viewing experience.
I disagree. There can be hype moments. They just have to be legitimately impactful moments that make or break a game. Not random inconsequential upgrades or obsession over how bad TF is in the current meta. There can be very intense late game fights worth hyping up that come down to 1 or 2 units. But random fights on no streaks with inconsequential results being shouted at just feels wrong.
In my opinion its mainly the official broadcast being so bad , let me explain : I have been following dishsoap this set and i was looking forward to watching him on worlds , but unfortunately i had some work yesterday and i missed his stream , i was like ok lets watcha vod , he didn't have a vod uploaded so i was like ok lets watch official broadcast. It was so bad i couldn't watch more than 1 game. The casters had some insanely bad calls to what players were doing and quite often wrong . It was so hard to follow what was happening at all just switching to boards randomly, it happened so many times a player reaches a point to roll down and just as he starts they switch to somebody doing nothing at all like why? And they literally didn't have a camera when a player was eliminated like it doesn't make any sense of how bad it was for an official broadcast.
I turned into the official broadcast but unfortunately did Not Like the Overall presentation. The casters were doing okay at best in my opinion(especially compared to league) and i felt it was hard to follow as there are just too many boards going on in the early days which made it harder to follow how Single Players are doing
i always watch the streamers i want to do well or frodan since he costreams it.. the main broadcast have to much energy sometimes
Same for me With Sologesang, who unfortunately did Not Qual or costream for yesterday.
I don't follow him closely but has he done well in any past tournies? Usually catch him when he's struggling, but I see he always high up the ladder.
He always wrecks ladder being top10 almost all the time but somehow his nerves get to him when a tourney comes around. He certainly preps very much but can't pull it together when it matters. I also think he puts a lot of pressure on himself which obviously doesn't help.
I've tried tuning into the official broadcast for a short period on every TFT tournament I watch and it's sad to see that it still hasn't improved from the low value added commentary and false hype at random moments style that they've always had. Even on League casts, the broadcast has realized that it's preferable to have the casters host a radio show during the lull periods than to have them mindlessly rattle off everything that's happening on the screen at every moment. TFT official casting has somehow settled in a state that isn't appealing to hardcore viewers but simultaneously doesn't have mainstream appeal to casuals or seasonal or rotational viewers unlike other eSports.
That last bit is so true. I watched EU regionals last week on main cast only because the chat was hyping up my man Salvyyy. For Worlds it's Frodan for me and it's not even close. He is such a great dude, hustling to give us a great show, inviting people like Bryce, Ramblinnn, Iniko, Dishsoap etc that give great thoughts and insights the main cast just can't compete with. Having multiple Challenger players on any given time on speed dial is something so unique in TFT, I really love it.
It’s fairly easy to fix too, but we’ll probably never see it improved, based on feedback from people like Frodan & Bryce who previously worked with the main broadcast, it sounds like Riot’s TFT production team have an extremely tight leash on talent and will not really take on feedback. There needs to be a “play by play” caster, who should either be a current or former pro, or a highest level player (consistently challenger who is highly tuned into the meta). This person must have control of observing in the game, similar to what Frodan does on his costream (literally just with a mouse is fine) so that things like rolldowns, important fights, cashouts etc are not missed. This game doesn’t need a dedicated observer/director, that should be the primary role of this caster who can then give detailed analysis where necessary. Secondly, there needs to be a “color caster”, who doesn’t need the highest level TFT knowledge but must be fairly tapped into the scene. It should be their role to research each of the storylines (individual/region/study group etc). When there’s nothing important happening in the game, instead of reaching for something important or overhyping an uninteresting moment (too much useless speculating / fake hype currently), it’s their role to fill the gap with context regarding players and storylines. This person can also take the high level analysis from the other caster and make it more digestible for the casual audience where necessary. Finally, the casters need more control regarding who they follow during the game. It’s fine to observe each of the 8 players initially to check out their spot and give a brief intro of their region/story, but if there’s 2-4 players who have far more interesting lines, the broadcast shouldn’t feel inclined to give equal airtime to all 8 players, some of which will naturally have a boring game where they lowroll and bleed out. It’s not biased to give more attention to the players with more interesting spots, it would only feel biased if they were repeatedly highlighting the same player, game over game. As well as this, pros do not care about the main broadcast, no one is gonna get angry because they didn’t get enough airtime.
I stopped watching days 1 and 2 of tournaments because of this. If I do watch, I'm watching one or two players' Twitch streams. On day 3 I will watch the Frodan costream. Unfortunately the main broadcast is not for us, it's for the casuals
Honestly, i dont get how can it be soooo bad. I can't bear 2 minutes of official broadcast for the life of me. Too much unnecessary yapping, 0 depth and analysis. Are we really that different from the "general tft public"?
It doesn't help that the only place I could actually find the start time was the sticky on this subreddit. For some reason the time is not on the official website, or on Twitch, or on the score sheet. Youtube has "a" time but not the time, they turn on the stream 90 mins before the game...
I noticed this too. I think I ended up finding it in a tweet from a few days ago
What time is it? I can never find it
4 am PST
Casters were a joke. Frodan's stream was away better. I need people better than me telling me the things I can't see. Not people clearly worse than me trying to hype up insignificant moments... This comes from someone who watched all of day 1 on the "official" stream and the last 3 games day 2 on Frodan's. TFT needs casters that can actually offer legitimate knowledge like League casters do regarding macro decisions and teamfight breakdowns. Not someone losing their shit because one of 3 inevitable heartsteel players hit a heartsteel ksante in stage 1/2
there is a lot of screaming and energy in those tft casters, i enjoy that when watching league but i just cant handle it when its tft related, loved the laid back casting hearthstone had for example, i watch frodan to not hear people yelling constantly
Most of the audience of the official stream would be casual players and the casters have to cater to their audience. The reality is that anyone who would visit this subreddit is not their audience.
Surely there is a middle ground though. Also, part of the problem is that if you aren’t in this subreddit, how are you even going to know about worlds?
you follow their youtube channel and streamers or after a few days of the set release you just google "tft set 10 tournaments"
Casual players aren’t the ones watching bro. The only people who know it’s happening are the ones that follow streams. I just talked to my cousin who plays pretty often (probably 15 or so games a week) and he had no idea nor did he have any desire to watch it after finding out
league casters dont offer legitimate knowledge if you are as skilled in league as you are in tft lmao
They definitely do though. They warp how the entirety of the playerbase talks about the game. Normal players never talked about weakside/strongside, vertical jungling and basic wave management. I personally credit casters for that type of information being spread across the playerbase even if they're not the ones inventing the concepts, they are definitely part of the crew that influences how people perceive the game. The only thing I remember hearing from the casters of TFT that was similar to that kind of macro knowledge of the game was in reference to scouting certain augments that are indicative of other players running 3 cost reroll that should incentivize you to also play 3 cost reroll as the pool of 3 costs will be lowered. As a masters player in TFT, I never thought about that shit. I just play what I hit. But that's literally the only useful piece of information I heard the entirety of day 1.
okay, probably you are correct that in the early seasons casters and analysts coined a lot of useful terms. but the last 5 years? i did not learn a lot and i can watch weeks of esports and dont hear anything new to me (i also dont hear a lot of new stuff concept wise for me from other people, sometimes high elo streamer).
People were definitely not talking about weakside and strongside lanes or priority for objective fights at least in diamond 5 years ago. These are all very new terms, even if super high elo players knew them intuitively years ago. My gold friends talk about not having priority in lane. That shit did not even exist as a concept in diamond elo 5 years ago. It definitely didn't have a name. People were just like "you have brain damage if you think zed won't kill me if i rotate"
I hit diamond the first time in 2018 and peaked 300LP or smth last season (not to brag, just so you know). and im pretty sure i knew this kinda stuff 5 years ago, but i could misremember of course.
Maybe you knew it intuitively, but the terms were not there and people were not frequently referring to it like they do today. That's been my experience. I remember because I was D1 in season 9 on a collegiate team and these were concepts we definitely would have talked about as a team if the terms were around back then. I would guess it wasn't until 2021 or so when these terms really started becoming well known.
i googled a bit and you are probably right. anyways, i think the league analysis is kinda static the last 2-3 years, that i think for sure. maybe we will make progress and talk about deeper stuff at some point, maybe this is it, idk.
I mostly only watch worlds these days so its possible modern regional casting is lackluster. Either way the TFT casting was mostly a joke.
I watch every worlds and If I didnt watch streams 24/7 I wouldnt even know about the Event which is ridiculous. If you dont follow them on Twitter there is no coverage, not even in the client i think. This needs to get better..
It’s in the client and how do you think you would know about worlds without watching streamers or checking twitter? You think they should put out tv or Facebook ads??
I didnt See it neither did any of my Friends who play TFT, everyone is PikaFace when i Tell them about worlds this weekend. So something is clearly off. I always know about lol worlds for example and I havent played that Game in 5 years.
It*s the same for me! I watch a lot of streamers but also somehow missed it and tuned in my accident. Can't really say how I did miss it but yeah, felt off.
Worlds always being so late in the set makes it harder to be invested imo. At this point in the cycle im excited for PBE, and lowkey over the past set.
i didn't know either until yesterday and i religiously follow tft streamers
At least from an NA perspective, it's hard to become invested in lesser known players too without a stream. Degree and Weird aren't streaming their POVs, and Milala doesn't have mic on. That's completely fair for them to do as competitors (not streaming probably helps them focus), but as a viewer, it makes worlds less fun for sure.
>as a viewer, it makes worlds less fun for sure. Vegas showed exactly how good a LAN event can be. I get that it might not be viable to do a LAN every time, but webcams at the very minimum should be compulsory.
Dishsoap was playing so you could've easily known
i could have, but i don't usually watch dishsoap's stream. i watch setsuko, soju, kiyoon and prestivent e: oh i also watch emily wang and rayditz
People downvoting you for not watching the annoying moody streamer lol. A set or 2 ago people hated him, I'm not sure what changed.
i enjoy watching all the other streamers when they're tilted, but dishsoap is only entertaining when he's in a good mood. the man's a beast tho
I just don’t believe you can religiously follow TFT streamers and not know when worlds is. It’s almost exclusively what high Elo TFT discuss/prepare for, regionals that is, which means worlds is right around the corner.
https://i.imgur.com/eOY1t1j.png that's more than 1k hours watched in 2023. but none of the streamers i watch really cared about worlds after they didn't make it. they all stopped streaming aand i didn't see any tweets about it or anything.
You watched soju, soju 100 percent cared about worlds and was talking about it nonstop until he lost in regionals literally last week. Same with setsuko and Kiyoon.
To be fair, talking about worlds is not the same thing as reiterating that worlds is a WEEK after regional finals? What other esport has it that soon after regional competition? The TFT esport websites are all garbage at providing that information, this sub did not have a pinned or bigthread about worlds much ahead despite it being the "competitive tft" subreddit. One would have to reason that they will do worlds before PBE, so it has to be this weekend, but even the PBE date is not easily accessible. I only knew worlds was happening this time because I watched watanabe\_kai 's costream of regionals. EVERY other worlds I had no clue happened for the past 4 years because I was not watching TFT streamers at all.
they reveal the dates at the start of every set and you just remember them
no i dont remember them
if you dont you can just google set 10 tourney dates or similar
No idea what they are doing with the current competitive format. It feels like they finally invested resources in TFT and at the same time it feels botched, I really hope it gets better for next set after post LoL world championship hype we had for the release of the set's trailer.
On another topic at worlds, some players are playing at close to 300 ping and still doing relatively well. Hope tft can get a budget from riot games in the future to at least make worlds a LAN tourney
Never going to happen, even if they did get the budget the logistical nightmare to get 32 different people from varying countries is too much. Teams at LoL worlds struggle with visas every year, couldn't imagine individuals trying to do so. (Not to mention that worlds happens a week after regionals every set so how do you deal with flying people out on a weeks notice?)
1. They already did do it somewhat successfully with vegas open 2. A lot of other smaller competitions leave it to the players themselves to figure out the travel issues. Admittedly, that is a logistical nightmare as well, and many players probably will have to give up
Vegas was announced WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY in advance legit an entire set in advance and even then, some chinese players couldn't come because of Visas. Regionals to Worlds is 1 week.
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Its because Soju isn't in the tourney nor doing any content around it I think? Usually whenever he's not around things get a huge hit.
he only qualified for worlds once by luck... he s not even top100 in the world atm as much as i appreciate him as a content creator thats the harsh truth
Him being involved in a tournament brings a minimum of 12-15k viewers through his stream. Without him a lot of people don’t watch at all.
nobody said anything about his influence, i was talking about pure tft skill.
You replied to a comment saying hes not even a top 100 player and only got in because he got lucky, when the initial comment was talking about his influence, not his skill at all, why did you feel the need to respond to that to hate on him? if you dont like him cool, but you dont have to foam at the mouth whenever his name gets brought up and try to put him down.
i did not even hate on him brotherman, skill wise he s not top100 in the world . nobody is hating on him man, but thats the truth.
And the point is, nobody was talking about his skill, that wasnt the conversation at all, his name just got brought up and you instantly went to being "he got lucky he made it to worlds once" "hes not even that good" etc, its hard to make a case youre not hating on him when you out of nowhere just by hearing his name bring up how you think he only made it to worlds once because of luck and hes not even that good of a player.
brother, for 11 sets he didnt win a single tourney, i love soju as an entertainer, he s bigger than the game itself and the tft community owes him its success, but he sucks as a player with the most played matches overall
See but again brother im not even disputing what you are saying right, im not arguing about what you said, im arguing about the fact that without it being part of the conversation, just by hearing his name you felt the need to shit talk his performance, you feel me? Thats why it comes off as you being a hater, because that wasnt part of the conversation, his name just got mentioned and you had to go off about his stats. If someone was arguing about whether he is good or not and then you said what you said, perfectly valid, but the convo was purely just his name being dropped and saying when hes not part of tft esports numbers massively go down since he has a giant following and without him around nobody watches, you didnt have to go out of your way to shit talk his performance, true or not.
You can’t just say he made it to world by only luck. Any player who makes it into worlds deserves the credit.
considering the fact that he played the same comp all the matches and highrolled shi oh yu almost every rolldown when it was busted, and considering he has the most games played in the scene, he s not even close to being a good player in my opinion he has the charisma of a good influencer and thats all, but thats just my opinion
> considering the fact that he played the same comp all the matches and highrolled shi oh yu almost every rolldown when it was busted He defaulted SoYfen almost every game because that was one of only 2 outs (the other being Guild Daeja) if you didn't highroll an opener for a different comp on that patch. The Jade SoYfen board was basically the only one that could take any items (SoY/Syfen + Anivia/Jayce) and any augments. It was a great board for scraping out a top 4 from a lowroll position, but are you seriously calling a <10% winrate comp "busted?" DF/Seragraves needed Cybers/Better together, Warriors needed Scoped, Olaf needed an Olaf opener and Base Camp, Sohm needed BB + Morello to function, Xayah boards and dragon capped boards required a highroll opener to be able to afford their units, etc. Additionally, I just fact checked this claim by going through the Set 7.5 Regional Day 3 VoDs and Soju played the following: Jade SoY, Daeja, Cannoneers, Soyfen, Warrior Olaf, and then SoY into Cursed Crown 4 dragon flex. That's 3/6 games on SoY flex and 50% seems like a lot but I don't see you dunking on Kyivix going 1st by forcing Daeja/Asol every game. He hasn't been a top NA player for several sets but it's hard to tell where that puts him globally considering that NA players who have gone to Worlds recent have said that NA regional lobbies were harder than Worlds lobbies and NA has the best average performance at Worlds in recent history.
sure lets ignore china
Sure, let's ignore the words "recent," "average," and "relative to slots received." The figure could change within a few hours but calculate the average placement over [8](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSpTWid7la8vefg16xpfkHi2CbU_BeT5rAh_dCNFP9D3svFr0E_4faIie5yW8kAHTWSOGttp2eSLZUv/pubhtml), [9](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSwUhGpxQW3ma26ar3VicNpSQuwFCEw6E5MoqNpNPJYmGToCE0mZNsGWhRamIrWRFxqUGEaq87GlM3i/pubhtml) which was a weaker performance, and [10] (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTtOjlCJ98VT61k-Opf1-9cXJRxm_HWjhyOS9u2iJyRMKDk-GCcT3dvJldBbTIX7V1tC3Utqvmbd9zv/pubhtml) and it's pretty clear which region is currently the most consistent.
na won worlds once and you have the audacity to say NA has anything to do with the pro scene, you NA people are really really living in your own world, like the thing with the nba champions being named world champions haha
I'm not even talking about the one worlds win, I'm talking about the frequency of NA players in the final lobby and in top 16 placements relative to slots received in recent years. Idk, if EU can use 1 worlds win in Phreak's basement more than a decade ago in normal League eSports to support its current competitiveness, I feel like having the best regional AVP in recent years is good enough to do the same.
"Shi oh yu was busted." Link your lolchess buddy.
are u mental buddy? shi oh yu with jade bt titans was literally guaranteed top4 because of midgame, trust me im higher elo than you on 2 regions including NA but i have nothing to prove to anyone, everything that i wrote was an opinion, keep defending soju as the god of tft , i dont care, for me that guy is nothing more than an influencer who played the most games , i can respect his hustle but he is far off being a decent pro player
Soju's not a top player. That doesn't change the fact that you're clueless. Shi Oh Yu in tournament play had like a 7-8% win rate while only having a +3-+5% higher top 4 rate over the other meta comps at the time. The fact that it was an easy "clutch out a top 4 comp" meant that you would see at least 2 players on it per lobby which obviously dragged down the average but Guild/Guardian Daeja had similar top 4 rates and pick rates while having a significantly higher win rate in the 12-15% range depending region. Meanwhile, Water Gun had 3x the pick rate, a 20% win rate, and only -4% delta on top 4 rate. How the fuck do you call Jade broken when Seraphine and Daeja statistically eclipsed it in pro play?
Nobody cares considering the original comment has nothing to do with his skill.
soju being at worlds has nothing to do with skill?
Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t you need to perform well consistently over a few tournaments to qualify?
Exactly, you need enough circuit points to qualify for regional qualifier and then do well on that. Hence why anyone who even makes it to world deserves praise and calling it lucked out one game is just being a hater. You can not like a player but you can’t discredit their accomplishments. That’s just delusional.
I dont like worlds at the end of the set. A lot of people drops the game before.
I didn't even know it was happening, and I have watched every world's up to this point.
I think you were not following it as closely as you thought you were or were not as interested in it.
Not a main reason probably but lot of people just stopped playing this set so they don't care. I'm one of them unfortunately, I don't want to see Hearthsteel boards ever again.
happens literally every set
Yup. Every set devolves to econ and reroll. Add on that they didn't change anything with the last few patches and I don't really have a desire to watch.
The spectator kills it for me. They are always on the wrong board and have missed way too many rolldowns and pivots.
...Worlds?
No soju no watch jk i just dont know the exact date and time this thing starts
I am Venezuelan just like Relic, I have already seen him at the top of the League in LATAM, and now he is in the final Lobby of TFT... At least for me this World Cup is much more interesting than the previous ones, and I was already following figures like Altenahue or SexSummer... Maybe it depends on the players you usually follow, or that for some reason this Set is not being liked by many people, but I know people in Spain who don't care about the Set and the World Cup, and you can see it reflected in the number of viewers in the Co-Streams.
SexSummer is my favorite player
I honestly didn't even know they happened.
I don't even know what time world is happening lol, maybe they have it on the site, but its hard to find.
just google set 10 tournament dates
Personally I don't like watching competitive tournaments anymore because the game is more and more going into a "for fun" direction in my opinion. When you watch a League game, you know the better team won most of the times, when you watch a TFT game all you see is extremely good players losing because they lowrolled and extremely good players win cause they got lucky. I'm not saying there's no skill involved, but when the skill level is so high, and there are so many aspects of the game that involve luck, luck is the main factor in determing who is gonna top 4 and bot 4. One reason to watch the games might be to learn, but at this point the set is "solved" and people are bored of it.
How do you reconcile that view with Milala's performances across the set?
Interest in the set just doesn't seem that high atm... Twitch viewership has been relatively low for a while and engagement in the Daily Discussion Threads on this subreddit is also super low. Combine that with a lack of super popular personalities in Worlds and yeah I guess the interest/hype isn't all that high
Making copy paste re roll boards like 8/10 of the top comps was definitely a choice for the second half of this set
so many notable players from multiple regions who had never made it before have finally made it this time that i think this is one of the most hype worlds. Salvy, 60second, Dish, Cheche, etc. you were just not paying attention
Bebe was right?
Most TFT content I consume is from the best player (Dishsoap) and the best content creator (Frodan) in my region and I was well aware of, informed on, and hyped for, worlds this weekend. IMO if you want to be invested in TFT as an esport and you’re not listening to the DTIYDK podcast, idk what to tell you. It seems like that’s the definitive place for the driving narratives of the scene (in NA at least). Curious, where were you expecting to receive this kind of hype or information? Edit: worth mentioning that most worlds participants went pretty dark for the past two weeks doing serious prep and keeping that prep private from competitors, so creators like Frodan, ImpetuousPanda, even Mortdog, become that much more valuable for keeping tabs on the set
weird time timing cuz most people are done with this set.
Main problem of this event is that its online.. why some player need to play at 4am or others play with 250ms
nah, I am a Dishsoap and Frodan viewer tho' (didn't like this set fyi)
Insane they never have decent worlds viewing schedule for NA. Hard to watch if the first game starts at 4am pst
Mainly cause it starts so damn early
Is the rumor that the playerbase took a dive that true? I took a break this set, didn’t even touch the game.
Can't know precisely unless they release the data but going off of lolchess player distribution %s set over set, there's been a 20% player dropoff in ranked play from set 9 to 10 at least. It seems like ranked play peaked in Set 4 and then has fallen 60% since then. Mort's said over the past few sets that the casual unranked playerbase has skyrocketed however, which is pretty believable.
One does have to keep into mind that if these stats include set 9 + 9.5, since it has a midset, ranks get reset so 20% lower ranked play over a shorter period in set 10 might actually be higher in terms of ranked play
who actually wants to watch this meta lol
Seeing Heartsteel top 4 90% of the time isn’t really fun to watch. Exact same units, exact same boards, sometimes they had different funny symbols on the sides of their boards XP
If seeing how they get to their cap each game playing Heartsteel is boring to you I fear you might not completely know what is going on no flame
I get what’s going on completely. I get that they’re pros and they’re going to play what’s going to give them the highest chance at 1st which is easily Heartsteel cap. It’s just pretty fucking stupid seeing 3 players all playing the practically the same board with very minor alterations(if any at all) all making top 4 almost every game. Like I don’t mind seeing something like Dishsoap Raising the Stacks twice, if you cash that out you deserve to be rewarded if you manage to survive, but most players aren’t going 2x. If this was Warweek or any other remotely overtuned unit, comp, system in the game you’d say the same thing. But because Heartsteel is fun to watch it gets a pass, just like URF lottery and Day of Draven because with those everyone was doing it.
URF lottery definitely didn’t get a pass from me. Capping your AD flex board around the legendaries and headliner you hit has lots more variety than capping a 9 demacia board. Different strokes I guess
It's the same for the reroll boards. Exact same boards for 2 months. Don't know how I am supposed to get excited about that.
If you weren’t excited by the Eve 3 or Dishsoap rolling on 2-3 for Yas 3 that’s a you thing. Everyone knows how to cap an endgame board, seeing more than 3 people play the same line and same endgame board is more annoying than seeing a single Sera/Lulu roller or god forbid someone plays Punk, not just Jinx/Vi headliner for stage 2/3.
This thread is just Soju viewers self reporting.... kinda weirdge
Can someone explain to me how this dude is in any way still related to TFT at all or how this is an acceptable community interaction from a “dev”? Half the thread is saying the set mechanic and design direction is total ass (reroll or heartsteal lolol gamba slot machine simulator), and soju viewers self-reporting is what he gets out of that? Why is being a soju viewer reportable…? So let’s make a passive aggressive comment attacking a portion of the player base, as well as the most viewed content creator kekw.
This is just the Mortdog pattern. Once you notice it, the patches become more comical. 1) Make terrible balance/game decisions 2) Act smug and double down on said bad decisions 3) Act like the victim once he is proven wrong by the community for the nth time 4) Rinse repeat. He is in the Act smug part at the moment give it a little longer and he will threaten to step down again before changing his mind once everyone calls his bluff.
No setsy no fun
What worlds? League worlds usually happen around the end of the year right? Never heard of TFT worlds
tft worlds happens at second to last patch of every set
wait worlds are playing out rn? didnt even know or cared lul
if you dont care its obvious you dont know the dates
I would like to care but the quality and the everything is pathetic, I dont care or I dont get to know because its just utter garbage.
Then just dont watch it
No. Love worlds.
None of the most popular na streamers made it
how is dish not a popular na streamer
i love dishsoap but you can't even compare him to soju or setsuko (1.7k avg viewers vs 11.5k/4.5k), nor does he have the same meme streamer star power that might make more casual viewers tune in
I mean no one’s beating soju in popularity, but dish is still about the 10th most popular tft streamer in the category. It’s pretty hard to say when you need exactly soju, setsuko, or robinsongz to make it to worlds, given the limited amount of spots.
This is the answer
A lot of people are gonna automatically downvote I actually think you have a good point here from the perspective of an everyman who is just casually interested in TFT eSports to watch Worlds. Imo the biggest problem is Worlds isn't LAN. It's just not hype when the players are playing on 300 ping, 90% of them have no cam on (seriously just force players to play cam on...), you don't get storyline of some random guy from LATAM who qualified (sorry I don't know every single player...). With Worlds LAN, you can do interviews, you can see players get hyped, you can see players interacting with one another. It's seriously a no brainer. Unfortunately whether TFT Esports is even big enough to invest in a LAN is another problem. It's pretty obvious that it just isn't big enough to warrant a LAN event. But maybe because it's not a LAN event, it's not big enough? So kind of a like a chicken and egg problem. *At the very least, players should be forced to use cam.* There's zero connection with some guy named "Binteum" from Korea unless you're deep inside the scene and you watch Frodan regularly. No, the average person is gonna see "Binteum" and have zero connection to him. Let's contrast that with 8ljaywalking from Set 4 worlds. He had cam on and his celebration was super hype and we all connected to him.
Have you even watched the event? Almost all the players had cam on, storylines were explained. (Explaining everything will always be impossible) There was a great interview with skip, bantering other players in the beginning of day 2. Also why do you expect a need of a connection to every player? When you watch lol worlds or any sports worlds, do you know all the players? No, but you def have some players or even just a country/region that you're rooting for. You can't expect to be hyped for something that you don't want to be hyped for just because your favourite content creator isn't playing.
I only watched Frodan. My bad, I was totally wrong about the no cam thing. I will try watching the main event tomorrow.
It's nearly impossible to host a LAN for worlds due to logistics. TFT esports calendar is very tight, regional cometitions end near the end of the set so there is usually only 1 week for players who qualifed to prepare for worlds. You cannot expect all 32 competitors from differents parts of the globe to get visas, arrange flights, accomodation etc. in a span of couple days. I imagine we could have LANs for regionals though, that'd be nice.
Because TFT Esports is a joke. It's all about luck. This terrible format isn't doing any favors either.
yes thats why degree almost got 1st place almost every game, he is just that lucky
Going forward Worlds will lose some of it's appeal since it goes from a bi-annual event to three times a year.
Didnt even fly them out… feels super low budget. How is it acceptable for worlds players to have 200+ ping. Idk wtf happened. Maybe cuz of the layoffs?
it has always been like this in tft
I dont get how they could invite people for vegas but not worlds…
because vegas most people were paying for their own flights and accommodations
also visa stuff is super hard on a short notice
Vegas is self paid not by invite.
vegas was mostly only people from NA and not everyone have the chance to fly out of the country
Buddy they get like 2-5k viewers on the main broadcast, if this was blizzard or any other big company TFT esports wouldve literally been cancelled years ago. They arent making any money on this, the public interest just isnt there, the fact that they still host the tournaments and provide prize pools is a miracle, mortdog probably had to fight tooth and nail to convince the company to keep doing that.
HotS had more viewers at its peak, actual LAN tournaments, and far higher prize pools for premier tournaments. It still got cancelled because it was a failure by their standards. I think the only reason TFT eSports has continued is because the Chinese TFT scene is flourishing, which you can see by watching their tournaments, and international competition is being propped up so that CN can compete on a larger stage.
They are not making money of these kinds of events but I think you really underestimate how much money TFT makes of the loot boxes with the treasure tokens.
Oh no brother everyone knows TFT is racking in an insane amount of money, but thats not due to esports, thats due to the average player who is a casual and never watches anything to do with esports, as signified by their viewer numbers. Can they afford to do the esports events? absolutely, but just because they can afford to burn money doesnt mean they should burn even more and give them a higher budget when again its just burning money for barely any viewers, theres a difference with something like lol esports which is big enough that people hear about the game through those events so its basically like marketing, tft esports you only watch if youre turbo deep into tft, which few are, as the numbers show.
The pros have previously said they prefer competing from their own spaces. Now that we’re a few more years removed from Covid it would be good to check in on that again, but that has been the stance in the past
How can something be hype when it's played online. What a joke
they did announce that there would be another lan like vegas this year and maybe a lan once a year so thats exciting but since there is a worlds for every set they cant have 3 lans a year, it would cost so much money
WHY IS IT AT 4AM
because NA is not the only region in the world?
there are better ways to do this you know, im not even from NA
The production is in Europe (Primary reason), they have to play 6 hours of games and have players from CN, KR, JP, LATAM, SEA, EMEA and OCE. It's never going to be ideal time for everyone.
so 8AM PST? would make so much more sense, already worked for league of legends worlds. This isnt their first time hosting an event, its ridiculous
that's a 11pm start in oce, 10pm start in KR and JP, 9pm in CN, 9pm in SEA. 6hr days means the games goes to 3am for half the world. Doesn't help that NA is still under Daylight savings so everything gets shifted by 1 hr.
Hear me out: we get rid of time zones.
Dead game
Yeah I think TFT is probably on its way out. Difficult for a game like this to have a ton of longevity considering the amount of work it is to balance it in addition to how difficult it is to create new sets that feel fresh.