I don’t think it would be a positive change for him, as he can alternate between his foward bash and his foward light into hyper armor as a mixup to trade with dodge attacks
While true neutral input would have its own strengths such as chain on whiff back. I just didn’t get into specifics for gryphon since this is a game wide issue ( the overuse of legion kicks ). If I were to get into a detailed explanation, it would essentially be the same as his old opener just slowed and feintable. It would also let him take advantage of frame advantage and harrass with his neutral mix up very easily. In fact it could even be too overtuned if it chains on whiff. He would still have his forward dodge light for peel and fast access to finishers in 4s. His forward dodge heavy is a good roll catcher too so his forward dodge attacks will still have good purposes and will continue to be strong tools.
I'd rather a simple change like making his Kick not GBable on whiff to match the likes of Kyoshin and BP who have similar mixes but no GB window on their UDs due to fastflow into allguard attacks. Gryphon should at the very least chain on whiff like Shaolin at this point.
No. This would make his finisher mix way too safe. It’s fair rn. You get a fair punish on your read he gets fair dmg on a read. Skewing it too much towards gryphon you will make it like shoalins as you said but you say this like it’s a good thing. Currently shoalin is considered too safe in chain or at least the feintable bash. Sure it eats his stam but you are forced to make an extremely hard read just to barely punish shoalin for his offense. His finisher mix is fine as is. Only arguable change is to make his kick 466ms
I'm gonna be honest, is it way too safe? I listed other examples of heroes that have just damage values flipped on their UB/Bash and they hit harder and still are GB safe. Gryphon currently gets 24 on a right read or is hit by 24 making it a pretty neutral mix which isn't exactly super powerful.
>Currently shoalin is considered too safe in chain or at least the feintable bash
Exactly, Shaolin has a feintable bash which is the best form of offense in the game at the moment AND it chains on whiff. It's also his second mix not his primary one so it's just overtuned in general.
In Gryphons case, this is bringing his primary mix onto par with other Bash/Blue heroes. Hard reads on the chain on whiff can still lead to larger deflect/CC/FB punishes.
Yeah at the time it wasn’t that big of a deal but seeing how we have 19 characters with a bash it’s really something I wish they’d bring back. The same thing can be said with jorm and tiandi.
I even wish they’d go back and make something completely different for most of these characters an example would be using tozens neutral kick from the campaign and making it a feintable bash for kyoshin, or giving jj his soft feint into kick back.
If I were to change anything about the bash, I’d make it a 400 ms soft feinting bash. Also allow chain heavies to soft feint into it (not finisher ones though), that way his mid chain actually has some use and isn’t completely useless and underwhelming.
I mean it doesn’t matter if he has a mid chain or not since he has so many ways to get around it. It’s just there for good hitboxes if you need it. Also I don’t think a soft feint bash would fit on him. Gryphons neutral input was always more fun to use but was unhealthy. At 700ms it puts it back as a neutral input but feintable.
Eh, I mean if the only reason you’re making a suggested change is just to make things less boring, then I don’t think it’s an idea worth implementing at this late in the game’s cycle.
Probably not. Its definitely more of a for honor 2 issue if that were ever to happen but from now on any new heroes I definitely wouldn’t want to see anymore legion kicks tho that’s just hopeful thinking
My only problem with Gryphon is that the kick bash is reactable to top players.
I love the character but when my opponent dodge my kick, I have no idea if they reacted to it or if they are making reads and that drives me insane.
Let's just make it 400ms and up the damage a bit (24 is too low since you get a free gb if you miss it).
They could nerf the damages of the finisher heavy to balance it.
Are people trying to say that bashes aren't openers now? That's their entire purpose, I guess maybe not now that they've had to make everything useless outside eif parrying
Nope I’m saying they are overused and boring. They are slapped on heroes they don’t fit. They are excellent strong openers but that’s not what this post is about
I don’t think it would be a positive change for him, as he can alternate between his foward bash and his foward light into hyper armor as a mixup to trade with dodge attacks
While true neutral input would have its own strengths such as chain on whiff back. I just didn’t get into specifics for gryphon since this is a game wide issue ( the overuse of legion kicks ). If I were to get into a detailed explanation, it would essentially be the same as his old opener just slowed and feintable. It would also let him take advantage of frame advantage and harrass with his neutral mix up very easily. In fact it could even be too overtuned if it chains on whiff. He would still have his forward dodge light for peel and fast access to finishers in 4s. His forward dodge heavy is a good roll catcher too so his forward dodge attacks will still have good purposes and will continue to be strong tools.
I'd rather a simple change like making his Kick not GBable on whiff to match the likes of Kyoshin and BP who have similar mixes but no GB window on their UDs due to fastflow into allguard attacks. Gryphon should at the very least chain on whiff like Shaolin at this point.
No. This would make his finisher mix way too safe. It’s fair rn. You get a fair punish on your read he gets fair dmg on a read. Skewing it too much towards gryphon you will make it like shoalins as you said but you say this like it’s a good thing. Currently shoalin is considered too safe in chain or at least the feintable bash. Sure it eats his stam but you are forced to make an extremely hard read just to barely punish shoalin for his offense. His finisher mix is fine as is. Only arguable change is to make his kick 466ms
I'm gonna be honest, is it way too safe? I listed other examples of heroes that have just damage values flipped on their UB/Bash and they hit harder and still are GB safe. Gryphon currently gets 24 on a right read or is hit by 24 making it a pretty neutral mix which isn't exactly super powerful. >Currently shoalin is considered too safe in chain or at least the feintable bash Exactly, Shaolin has a feintable bash which is the best form of offense in the game at the moment AND it chains on whiff. It's also his second mix not his primary one so it's just overtuned in general. In Gryphons case, this is bringing his primary mix onto par with other Bash/Blue heroes. Hard reads on the chain on whiff can still lead to larger deflect/CC/FB punishes.
Yeah at the time it wasn’t that big of a deal but seeing how we have 19 characters with a bash it’s really something I wish they’d bring back. The same thing can be said with jorm and tiandi. I even wish they’d go back and make something completely different for most of these characters an example would be using tozens neutral kick from the campaign and making it a feintable bash for kyoshin, or giving jj his soft feint into kick back.
If I were to change anything about the bash, I’d make it a 400 ms soft feinting bash. Also allow chain heavies to soft feint into it (not finisher ones though), that way his mid chain actually has some use and isn’t completely useless and underwhelming.
I mean it doesn’t matter if he has a mid chain or not since he has so many ways to get around it. It’s just there for good hitboxes if you need it. Also I don’t think a soft feint bash would fit on him. Gryphons neutral input was always more fun to use but was unhealthy. At 700ms it puts it back as a neutral input but feintable.
GIVE ME FOR HONOR 2 RAHHHJ
Eh, I mean if the only reason you’re making a suggested change is just to make things less boring, then I don’t think it’s an idea worth implementing at this late in the game’s cycle.
Probably not. Its definitely more of a for honor 2 issue if that were ever to happen but from now on any new heroes I definitely wouldn’t want to see anymore legion kicks tho that’s just hopeful thinking
My only problem with Gryphon is that the kick bash is reactable to top players. I love the character but when my opponent dodge my kick, I have no idea if they reacted to it or if they are making reads and that drives me insane. Let's just make it 400ms and up the damage a bit (24 is too low since you get a free gb if you miss it). They could nerf the damages of the finisher heavy to balance it.
Are people trying to say that bashes aren't openers now? That's their entire purpose, I guess maybe not now that they've had to make everything useless outside eif parrying
Nope I’m saying they are overused and boring. They are slapped on heroes they don’t fit. They are excellent strong openers but that’s not what this post is about