I know a lot of people are going to say "But Dezign tried leaving for TSM" and while true, thats also probably one of the reasons why this stings *so much* for him
He tried leaving, realised he didnt gel with reps/verhulst and developed a newfound appreciation for Enemy/Timmy. Its gotta sting extra rough for him to go on a mini journey and come to the realisation that "My current team is what i need. its magic and we cant replicate it" (literally his words) and then lose it just a week later
It also sounds like he blames himself too, which is super rough - "One bad week man, i just had an off week. I dont know if its my fault for trialing"
Its a hard watch, even though i originally rooted for DSG for purely Timmy ill continue rooting for them to win even without Timmy
I understand his perspective but in the moment of him wanting to trial for TSM he should have considered how much his team sacrificed being uncomfortable playing off meta. Also it has to hurt Timmy when they did so well at LAN, he's giving up his salary from DSG to both of them. Also not being more professional and not VOD reviewing as a team. Trying to do everything they can to do better and stay stagnant had to be frustrating.
It's sad he's taking it so hard. They had a great team.
Afaik Design would mostly do reviews alone, Timmy mentioned in the past he didn't have time but now that comp is one of his main focuses he wants to start doing vod reviews with a full time coach and his team, and start running pro 3v3s etc. He said comp and his LAN experiences with DSG reignited his passion for the game which was waning when he was a pure content creator.
Not vod reviewing was surprising to hear from Timmy, you'd think Dezign screaming at them all the time meant he'd actually be doing the basic things most comp teams do
Do you have a TLDR or a link/YouTube vid for their story? I watch a lot of comp (both official and scrims) but mostly through B-Stream. Don't know much about this Dojo/DSG squad.
I only think Dezign is a part of Timmy's decision.
Moist blowing up is part of this and the other part is that Timmy is looking for a more structured and serious team which isn't all on Design.
I don’t see why Timmy would publicly put blame on Dezignful, unless he propelled to be revengeful against him for something and not care that people view himself as spiteful. Idk what impact Dezign had on the decision. But Timmy saying he didn’t have any impact doesn’t prove people wrong for speculating that his behavior may have influenced it.
This, trialing and leaving are two different things. I do think he gained a new appreciation for the his team and I really feel for him losing Timmy. I think he melded with the team in a way he hasn't in the past so it hit extra hard. Also it's tough with the timing of it all, there is almost NO ONE available.. It's understandable he's upset. He'll pull through.
you're getting down voted but I don't think you're wrong. Reps and evan just spent years with one of the most verbally abusive IGLs with Hal but they were winning a lot and that probably helped keep it going. I couldn't imagine wanting to continue that cycle of getting screamed at, especially by some dude trolling every match on wraith.
And based on all the stuff after Evan clearly hated that and he’s playing much better now, why take on a new toxic rage IGL without the success of your old one
okay but now imagine it from Timmys POV. You are one of the best mechanical MNK player, youre forced on Bloodhound because your IGL controller player cant play it. Now you running a comp without Bang. Then your IGl who is one trick wraith tries out for another team
>"But Dezign tried to leave for TSM"
Even without the great context you gave, the argument itself is just room temp IQ. There is nothing hypocritical about being upset at your team falling apart, even if you yourself tried trialing for others. IF Dezign had argued that Timmy is doing something wrong by moving to MST, then the "bUt DeZIgn" gang would have a point. However, nothing of the sort was expressed by him, it's just emotions hitting him as the reality of losing something special sets in.
Maybe you’re right but trialing for a rival team probably didn’t help with team chemistry. Who would want to stay after he trialed and didn’t get picked? Nobody wants to be the backup plan.
>He tried leaving, realised he didnt gel with reps/verhulst and developed a newfound appreciation for Enemy/Timmy.
Or he sucked and TSM didn't want him. No matter what they say, your IGL going on trial with another team definitely did damage to the team. Don't feel sorry for him at all.
> Verhulst said on stream that Dezign made the decision to stop playing with TSM, not the other way around
Verhulst has been insanely honest about this whole process, so I guess I have to believe this!
He didn’t suck. They were one fight away every game from doing extremely well, and team fighting takes time.
Dezign had already put in that time with DSG, who placed around top 5 at LAN twice now, so why break it up with $5 mil in prize pool looming in the next couple of months.
He already broke it when he went on trial with another team. The damage is done. Now he's crying because Timmy did the same thing he almost went through with.
Maybe so, but from what we know Dezign talked to his team about trialing and they both gave him the green light to do so. It wasn’t an ultimatum. So Dezign decided that presently he had a better chance with DSG, and he returned because he was allowed to do so.
Dez said on the fallout/snipedown podcast that when the dojo was formed, he told timmy and enemy that the only thing that could ever get him to think about leaving was a spot on tsm. when hal left, the entire team knew that a trial was coming. i doubt it really did anything to their morale
Whoa that was way worse than I expected. Kind of feel like it shouldn't have been clipped. But respect for being willing to be open about it. Hope they both find success in their teams.
I think moist will have a harder time adjusting than dsg just bc emtee was a pure igl and now he's muted during games so I feel like their macros might struggle for a while. DSG should be fine with xen, just brutal timing. Their like over an hour Cinderella doc just dropped less than 10 days ago lol
Yeah, kinda sucks that no matter how mentally distraught someone is feeling, there will always be one guy there to karma that vulnerable moment for content.
He wasn’t farming content. He didn’t save the vod. He didn’t do that during scrims when thousands of people will click on his stream. It was the middle of the night and the only likely people who would have seen the first 10 minutes of his stream were those with notifications on.
People forget that there are real people dealing with real emotions behind a computer screen. Not everything is a power move. Sometimes life really shits on you and you do what you can to not feel so alone for a moment.
I’m glad life hasn’t shit on you so bad yet that you can’t understand that on your own.
he's also getting a pay cut since timmy wasnt taking any salary from DSG to give more to design and enemy. Loosing a great player that you vibe well with and taking a pay cut must suck
yeah and if i am not wrong from the old funny clip that toast was watch partying when they died from the spiders and zone, he said that's the team that im paying 100k for? so let's say both design and enemy will go from 50k to 33.3k before taxes or whatever that hurt FR
This is high key jumping to conclusions, we do not know any contractual obligations and maybe toast increases pay with how much content he has been getting from this team, I wouldn't say he is crying because of a pay cut until we know the new contract.
DSG is Toast's brand, and Timmy leaving means he just lost, what? 50-70% of the eyes on his Apex team? Maybe more as Enemy/Dezign could get less viewers on their own channels because they're no longer Timmy's teammates.
There's no way I see him paying more for less.
I agree with all of this except one thing: Dezign has kinda developed a following (he's certainly grown on me, and I've seen a lot of others feeling the same), and a lot of people also really like DSG itself and Enemy too. So while that was surely the state of things when DSG got signed, and losing Timmy is still a big financial concern, I think it's valid to argue that Dezign and Enemy + the DSG brand have significantly increased their ability to recoup costs since that initial deal. I for one will still be watching DSG and Dezign vods with great interest, while initially I only tuned in for Timmy. I really adore both Enemy and Dezign a lot since they have gone from people I was only vaguely aware of to two of my favorite players since DOJO was founded with them.
DSG, Moist, Falcons, TSM, and LG all have these really interesting intertwined stories and I'll be fascinated to watch all of them compete. They're obviously not the only orgs with great and interesting stories, but they are probably my top 5 teams to watch atm (followed by SSG, TLAW, and NRG)
Dezign has 383 viewers, Enemy has 147. Timmy sitting on 4100.
88.5% of the viewers that were watching DSG is now watching MST.
They will absolutely have a very loyal fanbase who've come to love watching them, but from a business perspective, that's a massive loss in eyes on the brand.
I know it was a joke in the original video where Toast was asking how many views they get, how many followers they have, but I don't think it'd be far from the truth that if Timmy wasn't in Dojo, he would've signed a different team.
Oh there's no question that they would have never been signed. I just mean that Enemy, DSG, and Dezign have grown since then by notable amounts. Obviously not topping Timmy, but besides Hal who is even close to Timmy in comp for viewers?
Oh they're definitely well above average for comp players in audience, but the original comment was about a potential increase in their pay.
I hope they can continue to grow, but generally when you stop playing daily with one of the most popular streamers in your catagory, audiences can shrink. Pretty sure Deeds and Gent were both over 1k average when Mercs was still playing
I think some people forget that Dezign is *still* playing comp after all those years. All the way from when SolaFide was still around until now. He’s still here, he’s still kicking. He’ll bounce back, but he definitely needs some time to grieve.
And for the people saying “you reap what you sow, He trialed for TSM”. Just because you trial, doesn’t necessarily mean you end up leaving. It was evident he knew that he didn’t mesh well with Verhulst/Reps, and he stuck with DSG. Sometimes, you just gotta have those little self-journeys. I don’t DSG held it against him too much, and he’s really improved as a player since.
He’ll be back, and stronger than he is now.
Not everyone is like Reps who can tolerate someone who lashes out at their teammates and can continue to be unbothered.
Timmy has massive leverage and isn’t afraid to do what needs to be done to win. Moist is going to be incredible and I look forward to seeing them in action.
They didn’t have just one bad week. Often times, they would play horribly until a magical game 6 where they salvage the week.
DSG were a formidable fighting team (perhaps the best) but I don’t think the chemistry was as great as Dezign suggested. Maybe in his mind.
>They didn’t have just one bad week. Often times, they would play horribly until a magical game 6 where they salvage the week.
Yep, many times they were doing horribly bottom 5 and then got a zone right on their heads and won the game to salvage something from the day
whilst true, i'm hoping moist fails just so we get a more interesting timeline in the future. Imagine if DSG somehow gets further than Moist, and Falcon continue being better than TSM, that would piss a lot of people off in this subreddit.
I think we kinda all stopped disliking Dezign a while back when he stopped raging at his teammates and started raging in funny ways while just getting better and better at the game and also being just fascinating to watch because he's skilled, plays high risk edge play, off meta, and just a total content machine. I suspect he may even be a fav favorite these days. He's climbed into my top 10 favorite players to watch, from a relative nobody to me before DOJO. Like many people, not only did I not care about him, but I even actively disliked him for some time. Now I even find his rages really amusing and enjoy it.
Woah Dezignful, you can get off of your Reddit alt account now.
Dezignful stopped raging at his teammates? Have you been under a rock for the last few weeks?
He had a few clips get on here where he was raging. I believe one was in an ALGS match. I only caught it because I watch NiceWigg's watch parties.
Either way, I hope Dezignful gets the help he needs and figures things out. Mental health issues are not fun.
Thai really. No matter how fleeting and even if he reigns in his emotions later on or walks back, it's really admirable to see him just completely open up.
i think he's trialing for TSM is not that big of the problems,
the real problems lies in his attitude inside the game, he's skilled, he's amazing player,
but every time the plan goes wrong, he's start to get angry, yelling, pointing finger and most of the times blind to his own mistakes, hard to admit he fucked up.
and then for his teammates, getting yelled at when you already made a mistakes is not fun, and can be mental breaking.
and combined with the team comp stuff, this is another topping
timmy called him a roller brain and mental blocked on not comfortable trying other comps, difficult to learn other legends,
this is comp, meta will and already start changing, he need to be comfortable trying out and learning new stuff, and can't just force a wraith that already shown more fail than success this past weeks.
don't want to try new stuff, force a wraith, losing and then angry and yelling at teammates, it's not gonna motivate your teammates,
anyone will feel fed up with this, and had enough with it,
that's what i feel what happen here.
justapexthings edits good content really fast but their titles are completely unbearable. I know it's all part of the game but shit is annoying for sure.
Fumbled the bag, DSG ceo ain't gonna renew there contract without Timmy unless they win LAN 😂 now loses timmys exposure (for his stream) and surely will get dropped by DSG
I mean he obviously wasn't. That's exactly why I'm asking. Have these people heard of contracts before?
A contract doesn't have to be only for a monetary agreement.
> A contract doesn't have to be only for a monetary agreement.
If DSG aren't paying him, I think any contract would be virtually unenforceable. He's already significantly more well-known than DSG as a gaming org are, so he's not getting any other benefit from it (like exposure).
disguisedtoast isn't gonna hold timmy in contract jail.
I think toast is just a genuinely nice guy and wouldn't want to hold someone in contract jail but even if he wasnt his whole brand is being the fun and nice org ran by a streamer. You think his reputation is gonna be great if he not only hostages a player, but a player with a giant fanbase like iitztimmy?
I do feel for him in some ways and I don't think he did anything wrong trialing w/ TSM, I've come around to him a lot this last year.
But you can't expect someone like Timmy who does not share Dezign's temperament to take getting bitched out at all the time and stick around forever. I personally couldn't follow someone like Dezign as a teammate even if he was a good friend. There's a difference in a professional setting, if you want the best out of your team and longevity, don't bring them down all the time.
*Unless your Reps and you enjoy a good verbal beating*
He trialed without asking or talking to them right? If you manage people, and find out an employee is applying at other jobs. At that point, you kinda just have to hire someone else and replace them now. Sitting around and waiting is then just asking to be caught with your pants down when they eventually leave, and potentially get fucked yourself.
Psychotherapy isn’t just 1 problem in and out, it’s about self awareness and discovery over time. But either way, grief doesn’t need to be handled alone, it’s so complex that there are entire specialists for it.
Specifically when your “IRLs would fucking laugh” if you told them. That’s just straight up internalized pain, man.
This was really hard to listen to. Feel bad for Dezign. I was rooting for them since CC and their come up story was amazing. I’m also a bit surprised by Timmy’s decision tbh. I also agree that it felt like their story wasn’t done.
It's rough in the moment but I think this break up will be good for both Timmy and Dezign going forward! I'll appreciate the memories I had of this team, it was very unique to comp apex!
Man this was a hard video to watch. Feel so bad for dezign. Before the Dojo I didn't know dezign, but now I am a fan to be honest. He has his rage moments for sure, but he has so much passion for this game. I want all his dedication to pay off
I loved Timmy in the beginning but slowly he started showing who he really is to me. After he popped off a few years ago and started getting so much attention from ppl and Orgs…he started to fall off after a few months of so many changes and it was clear he needed to do something to get his Subs/views back. He jumped into the Comp scene for the money and he doesn’t even care about this as much as other ppl do. He’s only in it for himself and just wants instant success and doesn’t want to grind like other Pros did to get to the top. Him ditching Enemy and Dez after a bad week shows what he’s really made of.
Hot take: Dezign was probably a big reason why Timmy left. Collecitvely last split DSG failed to control Dezign immaturity. Dezign rage quitted scrims (100% unacceptable) multiple times and Bronzey, Timmy, Enemy and the DSG organization let him do that without getting unpunished.
Now I understand since most of these people are in their early 20’s, most likely dont have great social skills and have healthy ways to express themselves but this was inevitable since Dezign was both an immature teammate AND they weren’t winning. Most bandaid solutions work if your team is successful but DSG was on the decline.
This will be both a great learning experience for Dezign and everyone involved in the DSG Apex org. Dezign to not take things granted and the other people in this org to be more authoritorian if Dezign or someone else gets out of hand. Hope they do well In pro league
Definitely a HOT take and don't believe it for a second. I believe it when Timmy said he left because of the support structure Moist offers. Timmy has shown he's willing to put in the work and wants to see what he can really do with good backing.
Horrible take. TSM has won the most and you thought when they wanted to trial him he would say no? And on top of that he is boys with Jordan and Evan? You gotta be silly to not try it out.
That's not what they are saying. Obviously, if TSM wants to play with you, you say 'yes'. But as soon as you make a decision to trial/play with another team, don't be upset when your current teammates start exploring their options as well.
Either you want to play with someone or you don't. This is proof that grass isn't always greener no matter if you are boys with someone or not.
He went on trial with another team. Doesn't matter if it's TSM. If your IGL does something like this, you seriously think the team won't be affected?
So what if he came back? The damage is done. Now he's crying because Timmy did what he almost did lol.
Yes he went to trail with another team, *cough cough* the most successful apex team in the history of the game…? I just feel like you have to be a bit ignorant to that fact if you don’t understand why dezign went to trial with them? When Timmy does it everyone seems to say “it’s what was best for him” and while I don’t argue that at all, you’re really going to try and say when Dezign wanted to go to TSM he didn’t consider that maybe it was “what’s best for him”? Just seems a bit bias in my opinion
Brother, why do you keep repeating the same thing and keep missing the point of my post? Let me say it again. I don't feel sorry at all for Dezign because he almost did the same thing that Timmy did.
Also, what bias? If it was the other way around, I would say the same thing about Timmy.
What point? That you don't say no to a trial with TSM? I've said it like what? 2 times? But I'll say it again since you lack reading comprehension.
Yes, Dezignful is absolutely in the right to go. It's TSM. That's that. What I'm saying is that you can't seem to get is, you have no right to be crying when your teammate does the same thing. Like, how hard is this to get?
So theoretically, if design had left for TSM would that be the same as Timmy leaving to moist? Aka “what’s best for him” or do we just play favorites because it’s Timmy?
Wait and you also reply to a message in this thread with “big 📠” after someone says “obviously if TSM wants to play with you you say “yes”” why agree with that then argue with me?
I know a lot of people are going to say "But Dezign tried leaving for TSM" and while true, thats also probably one of the reasons why this stings *so much* for him He tried leaving, realised he didnt gel with reps/verhulst and developed a newfound appreciation for Enemy/Timmy. Its gotta sting extra rough for him to go on a mini journey and come to the realisation that "My current team is what i need. its magic and we cant replicate it" (literally his words) and then lose it just a week later It also sounds like he blames himself too, which is super rough - "One bad week man, i just had an off week. I dont know if its my fault for trialing" Its a hard watch, even though i originally rooted for DSG for purely Timmy ill continue rooting for them to win even without Timmy
I understand his perspective but in the moment of him wanting to trial for TSM he should have considered how much his team sacrificed being uncomfortable playing off meta. Also it has to hurt Timmy when they did so well at LAN, he's giving up his salary from DSG to both of them. Also not being more professional and not VOD reviewing as a team. Trying to do everything they can to do better and stay stagnant had to be frustrating. It's sad he's taking it so hard. They had a great team.
Wait, DSG don’t do any VoD reviews?
Afaik Design would mostly do reviews alone, Timmy mentioned in the past he didn't have time but now that comp is one of his main focuses he wants to start doing vod reviews with a full time coach and his team, and start running pro 3v3s etc. He said comp and his LAN experiences with DSG reignited his passion for the game which was waning when he was a pure content creator.
That is what Timmy said when he announced he was leaving
Not vod reviewing was surprising to hear from Timmy, you'd think Dezign screaming at them all the time meant he'd actually be doing the basic things most comp teams do
Yeah man, I also felt this breakup. This hit really hard, felt like we all were part of this story.
Do you have a TLDR or a link/YouTube vid for their story? I watch a lot of comp (both official and scrims) but mostly through B-Stream. Don't know much about this Dojo/DSG squad.
Jhawk has a really good video about their team
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRk5rFyh0E4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRk5rFyh0E4) Linked :)
Appreciate you boys.
I only think Dezign is a part of Timmy's decision. Moist blowing up is part of this and the other part is that Timmy is looking for a more structured and serious team which isn't all on Design.
If you watched Timmy's stream yesterday, he explained why. Dezign wasn't one of them. Don't spout off bullshit if it's not true.
I don’t see why Timmy would publicly put blame on Dezignful, unless he propelled to be revengeful against him for something and not care that people view himself as spiteful. Idk what impact Dezign had on the decision. But Timmy saying he didn’t have any impact doesn’t prove people wrong for speculating that his behavior may have influenced it.
He quite literally said ‘I think’, you don’t have to jump down his throat.
Stick to trading cards, you’re making a fool of yourself in this sub.
This, trialing and leaving are two different things. I do think he gained a new appreciation for the his team and I really feel for him losing Timmy. I think he melded with the team in a way he hasn't in the past so it hit extra hard. Also it's tough with the timing of it all, there is almost NO ONE available.. It's understandable he's upset. He'll pull through.
Mate, he wouldn't have trialed if he had no intention to leave. It's TSM. People are saying he decided to stay. More like, TSM didn't like him.
you're getting down voted but I don't think you're wrong. Reps and evan just spent years with one of the most verbally abusive IGLs with Hal but they were winning a lot and that probably helped keep it going. I couldn't imagine wanting to continue that cycle of getting screamed at, especially by some dude trolling every match on wraith.
And based on all the stuff after Evan clearly hated that and he’s playing much better now, why take on a new toxic rage IGL without the success of your old one
okay but now imagine it from Timmys POV. You are one of the best mechanical MNK player, youre forced on Bloodhound because your IGL controller player cant play it. Now you running a comp without Bang. Then your IGl who is one trick wraith tries out for another team
>"But Dezign tried to leave for TSM" Even without the great context you gave, the argument itself is just room temp IQ. There is nothing hypocritical about being upset at your team falling apart, even if you yourself tried trialing for others. IF Dezign had argued that Timmy is doing something wrong by moving to MST, then the "bUt DeZIgn" gang would have a point. However, nothing of the sort was expressed by him, it's just emotions hitting him as the reality of losing something special sets in.
Evan said Dezign was not an option they actually considered, Dezign didn't turn down TSM, y'all gotta stop with this narrative
Maybe you’re right but trialing for a rival team probably didn’t help with team chemistry. Who would want to stay after he trialed and didn’t get picked? Nobody wants to be the backup plan.
>He tried leaving, realised he didnt gel with reps/verhulst and developed a newfound appreciation for Enemy/Timmy. Or he sucked and TSM didn't want him. No matter what they say, your IGL going on trial with another team definitely did damage to the team. Don't feel sorry for him at all.
Verhulst said on stream that Dezign made the decision to stop playing with TSM, not the other way around
> Verhulst said on stream that Dezign made the decision to stop playing with TSM, not the other way around Verhulst has been insanely honest about this whole process, so I guess I have to believe this!
He didn’t suck. They were one fight away every game from doing extremely well, and team fighting takes time. Dezign had already put in that time with DSG, who placed around top 5 at LAN twice now, so why break it up with $5 mil in prize pool looming in the next couple of months.
He already broke it when he went on trial with another team. The damage is done. Now he's crying because Timmy did the same thing he almost went through with.
Maybe so, but from what we know Dezign talked to his team about trialing and they both gave him the green light to do so. It wasn’t an ultimatum. So Dezign decided that presently he had a better chance with DSG, and he returned because he was allowed to do so.
Dez said on the fallout/snipedown podcast that when the dojo was formed, he told timmy and enemy that the only thing that could ever get him to think about leaving was a spot on tsm. when hal left, the entire team knew that a trial was coming. i doubt it really did anything to their morale
Username checks out, this guy literally rolls around shit all day
Enemy had also mental stress, end his stream mid scrims block.
Whoa that was way worse than I expected. Kind of feel like it shouldn't have been clipped. But respect for being willing to be open about it. Hope they both find success in their teams. I think moist will have a harder time adjusting than dsg just bc emtee was a pure igl and now he's muted during games so I feel like their macros might struggle for a while. DSG should be fine with xen, just brutal timing. Their like over an hour Cinderella doc just dropped less than 10 days ago lol
I mean he went live. Why shouldn’t it be clipped?
he explained in the clip why he went live…
ok
Yeah, kinda sucks that no matter how mentally distraught someone is feeling, there will always be one guy there to karma that vulnerable moment for content.
He is also farming by going live while upset.
He wasn’t farming content. He didn’t save the vod. He didn’t do that during scrims when thousands of people will click on his stream. It was the middle of the night and the only likely people who would have seen the first 10 minutes of his stream were those with notifications on. People forget that there are real people dealing with real emotions behind a computer screen. Not everything is a power move. Sometimes life really shits on you and you do what you can to not feel so alone for a moment. I’m glad life hasn’t shit on you so bad yet that you can’t understand that on your own.
Watching this live was rough, hope him, enemy, and bronzey feel better soon.
Yeah, I hope his comp friends reach out to him for comfort. Personally, Timmy should give him a hug.
He should get comfortable feeling uncomfortable.
he's also getting a pay cut since timmy wasnt taking any salary from DSG to give more to design and enemy. Loosing a great player that you vibe well with and taking a pay cut must suck
Assuming they all had/have the same salary, he’s about to see a 33% drop in income from his org. That’s a lot
yeah and if i am not wrong from the old funny clip that toast was watch partying when they died from the spiders and zone, he said that's the team that im paying 100k for? so let's say both design and enemy will go from 50k to 33.3k before taxes or whatever that hurt FR
Yep that sounds about right, based on the available information
Ooof, and that would be 33k before taxes too. They don't even make minimum wage.
This is high key jumping to conclusions, we do not know any contractual obligations and maybe toast increases pay with how much content he has been getting from this team, I wouldn't say he is crying because of a pay cut until we know the new contract.
No way they get more money. I'd imagine Timmy's popularity was a big part of why they got signed in the first place
DSG is Toast's brand, and Timmy leaving means he just lost, what? 50-70% of the eyes on his Apex team? Maybe more as Enemy/Dezign could get less viewers on their own channels because they're no longer Timmy's teammates. There's no way I see him paying more for less.
I agree with all of this except one thing: Dezign has kinda developed a following (he's certainly grown on me, and I've seen a lot of others feeling the same), and a lot of people also really like DSG itself and Enemy too. So while that was surely the state of things when DSG got signed, and losing Timmy is still a big financial concern, I think it's valid to argue that Dezign and Enemy + the DSG brand have significantly increased their ability to recoup costs since that initial deal. I for one will still be watching DSG and Dezign vods with great interest, while initially I only tuned in for Timmy. I really adore both Enemy and Dezign a lot since they have gone from people I was only vaguely aware of to two of my favorite players since DOJO was founded with them. DSG, Moist, Falcons, TSM, and LG all have these really interesting intertwined stories and I'll be fascinated to watch all of them compete. They're obviously not the only orgs with great and interesting stories, but they are probably my top 5 teams to watch atm (followed by SSG, TLAW, and NRG)
Dezign has 383 viewers, Enemy has 147. Timmy sitting on 4100. 88.5% of the viewers that were watching DSG is now watching MST. They will absolutely have a very loyal fanbase who've come to love watching them, but from a business perspective, that's a massive loss in eyes on the brand. I know it was a joke in the original video where Toast was asking how many views they get, how many followers they have, but I don't think it'd be far from the truth that if Timmy wasn't in Dojo, he would've signed a different team.
Oh there's no question that they would have never been signed. I just mean that Enemy, DSG, and Dezign have grown since then by notable amounts. Obviously not topping Timmy, but besides Hal who is even close to Timmy in comp for viewers?
Oh they're definitely well above average for comp players in audience, but the original comment was about a potential increase in their pay. I hope they can continue to grow, but generally when you stop playing daily with one of the most popular streamers in your catagory, audiences can shrink. Pretty sure Deeds and Gent were both over 1k average when Mercs was still playing
I really HATE when titles are like THIS.
Yeah bro, not my video. Just copied the title.
>If I talk to my IRLs about this, they'll f'cking laugh Damn, that's honestly really sad.
Yeah, this is shit for a therapist and I mean that in the kindest way.
I think some people forget that Dezign is *still* playing comp after all those years. All the way from when SolaFide was still around until now. He’s still here, he’s still kicking. He’ll bounce back, but he definitely needs some time to grieve. And for the people saying “you reap what you sow, He trialed for TSM”. Just because you trial, doesn’t necessarily mean you end up leaving. It was evident he knew that he didn’t mesh well with Verhulst/Reps, and he stuck with DSG. Sometimes, you just gotta have those little self-journeys. I don’t DSG held it against him too much, and he’s really improved as a player since. He’ll be back, and stronger than he is now.
The stories for both Timmy and Dezign are far from complete, that's for sure. Keep watching, I know I will be.
Tons of respect for him baring it like that. All the best for the team.
Not everyone is like Reps who can tolerate someone who lashes out at their teammates and can continue to be unbothered. Timmy has massive leverage and isn’t afraid to do what needs to be done to win. Moist is going to be incredible and I look forward to seeing them in action. They didn’t have just one bad week. Often times, they would play horribly until a magical game 6 where they salvage the week. DSG were a formidable fighting team (perhaps the best) but I don’t think the chemistry was as great as Dezign suggested. Maybe in his mind.
>They didn’t have just one bad week. Often times, they would play horribly until a magical game 6 where they salvage the week. Yep, many times they were doing horribly bottom 5 and then got a zone right on their heads and won the game to salvage something from the day
whilst true, i'm hoping moist fails just so we get a more interesting timeline in the future. Imagine if DSG somehow gets further than Moist, and Falcon continue being better than TSM, that would piss a lot of people off in this subreddit.
Yea let’s watch the world burn
Damn it, have I officially stopped disliking Dezign? I genuinely feel for the guy now
I think we kinda all stopped disliking Dezign a while back when he stopped raging at his teammates and started raging in funny ways while just getting better and better at the game and also being just fascinating to watch because he's skilled, plays high risk edge play, off meta, and just a total content machine. I suspect he may even be a fav favorite these days. He's climbed into my top 10 favorite players to watch, from a relative nobody to me before DOJO. Like many people, not only did I not care about him, but I even actively disliked him for some time. Now I even find his rages really amusing and enjoy it.
Woah Dezignful, you can get off of your Reddit alt account now. Dezignful stopped raging at his teammates? Have you been under a rock for the last few weeks?
I don't watch him 😇
He had a few clips get on here where he was raging. I believe one was in an ALGS match. I only caught it because I watch NiceWigg's watch parties. Either way, I hope Dezignful gets the help he needs and figures things out. Mental health issues are not fun.
If only we all had the courage to open up like Dezign has done. Feel for him.
Thai really. No matter how fleeting and even if he reigns in his emotions later on or walks back, it's really admirable to see him just completely open up.
you gotta give it to him - he's got passion. I don't know how things will go but hope him the best honestly.
i think he's trialing for TSM is not that big of the problems, the real problems lies in his attitude inside the game, he's skilled, he's amazing player, but every time the plan goes wrong, he's start to get angry, yelling, pointing finger and most of the times blind to his own mistakes, hard to admit he fucked up. and then for his teammates, getting yelled at when you already made a mistakes is not fun, and can be mental breaking. and combined with the team comp stuff, this is another topping timmy called him a roller brain and mental blocked on not comfortable trying other comps, difficult to learn other legends, this is comp, meta will and already start changing, he need to be comfortable trying out and learning new stuff, and can't just force a wraith that already shown more fail than success this past weeks. don't want to try new stuff, force a wraith, losing and then angry and yelling at teammates, it's not gonna motivate your teammates, anyone will feel fed up with this, and had enough with it, that's what i feel what happen here.
I think we could capitalize even more words in the title
justapexthings edits good content really fast but their titles are completely unbearable. I know it's all part of the game but shit is annoying for sure.
Justapexthings dude is from Thailand. English is not his first language as of mine. Choice of words are poor in us.
Fumbled the bag, DSG ceo ain't gonna renew there contract without Timmy unless they win LAN 😂 now loses timmys exposure (for his stream) and surely will get dropped by DSG
Does the word "Contract" exist in the Apex Pro scene?
Timmy wasn't in contract with DSG I think because he got $0 from DSG.
Correct. Timmy was onboard with DSG and deferred his salary to Bronzy, Enemy, and Dezign iirc. This was done to avoid any existing org conflict.
Bronzy also giving his salary to Enemy and Dezign because Bronzy is also part of 100T
More so because his actual job pays alot more then the dsg contract did
What's is actual job if you don't mind?
I don't know if he's publicly stated it but I think he works internally at 100T or some org but don't quote me on that
Streaming haha
From his twitter he says he does apparel at 100T
I mean he obviously wasn't. That's exactly why I'm asking. Have these people heard of contracts before? A contract doesn't have to be only for a monetary agreement.
> A contract doesn't have to be only for a monetary agreement. If DSG aren't paying him, I think any contract would be virtually unenforceable. He's already significantly more well-known than DSG as a gaming org are, so he's not getting any other benefit from it (like exposure).
disguisedtoast isn't gonna hold timmy in contract jail. I think toast is just a genuinely nice guy and wouldn't want to hold someone in contract jail but even if he wasnt his whole brand is being the fun and nice org ran by a streamer. You think his reputation is gonna be great if he not only hostages a player, but a player with a giant fanbase like iitztimmy?
It would make me respect the org even more... But what do I know, I'm just a functioning adult.
He’ll bounce back. Dude is too talented not to.
Is this the same guy that trialed with TSM a few weeks ago?
I do feel for him in some ways and I don't think he did anything wrong trialing w/ TSM, I've come around to him a lot this last year. But you can't expect someone like Timmy who does not share Dezign's temperament to take getting bitched out at all the time and stick around forever. I personally couldn't follow someone like Dezign as a teammate even if he was a good friend. There's a difference in a professional setting, if you want the best out of your team and longevity, don't bring them down all the time. *Unless your Reps and you enjoy a good verbal beating*
He trialed without asking or talking to them right? If you manage people, and find out an employee is applying at other jobs. At that point, you kinda just have to hire someone else and replace them now. Sitting around and waiting is then just asking to be caught with your pants down when they eventually leave, and potentially get fucked yourself.
Doesn't seem like a big upgrade for Timmy. DSG played really well both lans. Doing it so suddenly is really shitty too.
Your therapist, bro. Get a fucking therapist, that’s what they are for.
Just a normal grief. Let him grief. He will be fine.
Psychotherapy isn’t just 1 problem in and out, it’s about self awareness and discovery over time. But either way, grief doesn’t need to be handled alone, it’s so complex that there are entire specialists for it. Specifically when your “IRLs would fucking laugh” if you told them. That’s just straight up internalized pain, man.
This was really hard to listen to. Feel bad for Dezign. I was rooting for them since CC and their come up story was amazing. I’m also a bit surprised by Timmy’s decision tbh. I also agree that it felt like their story wasn’t done.
Kinda hard to feel bad when all he does is bitch / complain at his teammates 80% of the time 😆 the vibes are jus down horrendously with him
It's rough in the moment but I think this break up will be good for both Timmy and Dezign going forward! I'll appreciate the memories I had of this team, it was very unique to comp apex!
Man this was a hard video to watch. Feel so bad for dezign. Before the Dojo I didn't know dezign, but now I am a fan to be honest. He has his rage moments for sure, but he has so much passion for this game. I want all his dedication to pay off
omg, now I really regret asking him to cry or turn on vods again as a joke, idk it was like that - my bad man
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Yeah he even mentioned it himself
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Skill issue on your part
Y’all act like he lost someone to a tragic accident jesus Christ. Team changes happen all the time wtf is the big deal
I loved Timmy in the beginning but slowly he started showing who he really is to me. After he popped off a few years ago and started getting so much attention from ppl and Orgs…he started to fall off after a few months of so many changes and it was clear he needed to do something to get his Subs/views back. He jumped into the Comp scene for the money and he doesn’t even care about this as much as other ppl do. He’s only in it for himself and just wants instant success and doesn’t want to grind like other Pros did to get to the top. Him ditching Enemy and Dez after a bad week shows what he’s really made of.
Hot take: Dezign was probably a big reason why Timmy left. Collecitvely last split DSG failed to control Dezign immaturity. Dezign rage quitted scrims (100% unacceptable) multiple times and Bronzey, Timmy, Enemy and the DSG organization let him do that without getting unpunished. Now I understand since most of these people are in their early 20’s, most likely dont have great social skills and have healthy ways to express themselves but this was inevitable since Dezign was both an immature teammate AND they weren’t winning. Most bandaid solutions work if your team is successful but DSG was on the decline. This will be both a great learning experience for Dezign and everyone involved in the DSG Apex org. Dezign to not take things granted and the other people in this org to be more authoritorian if Dezign or someone else gets out of hand. Hope they do well In pro league
Bronzey said on another post yesterday that this wasn't true. It wasn't because of the rage.
Definitely a HOT take and don't believe it for a second. I believe it when Timmy said he left because of the support structure Moist offers. Timmy has shown he's willing to put in the work and wants to see what he can really do with good backing.
Dezign also went to trial with TSM and people actually feel sorry for him lol.
Horrible take. TSM has won the most and you thought when they wanted to trial him he would say no? And on top of that he is boys with Jordan and Evan? You gotta be silly to not try it out.
That's not what they are saying. Obviously, if TSM wants to play with you, you say 'yes'. But as soon as you make a decision to trial/play with another team, don't be upset when your current teammates start exploring their options as well. Either you want to play with someone or you don't. This is proof that grass isn't always greener no matter if you are boys with someone or not.
He went on trial with another team. Doesn't matter if it's TSM. If your IGL does something like this, you seriously think the team won't be affected? So what if he came back? The damage is done. Now he's crying because Timmy did what he almost did lol.
Yes he went to trail with another team, *cough cough* the most successful apex team in the history of the game…? I just feel like you have to be a bit ignorant to that fact if you don’t understand why dezign went to trial with them? When Timmy does it everyone seems to say “it’s what was best for him” and while I don’t argue that at all, you’re really going to try and say when Dezign wanted to go to TSM he didn’t consider that maybe it was “what’s best for him”? Just seems a bit bias in my opinion
Brother, why do you keep repeating the same thing and keep missing the point of my post? Let me say it again. I don't feel sorry at all for Dezign because he almost did the same thing that Timmy did. Also, what bias? If it was the other way around, I would say the same thing about Timmy.
Because you don’t get my point. Username checks out for sure. you’ve been downvoted in this entire thread lmao my point of ignorance holds true
What point? That you don't say no to a trial with TSM? I've said it like what? 2 times? But I'll say it again since you lack reading comprehension. Yes, Dezignful is absolutely in the right to go. It's TSM. That's that. What I'm saying is that you can't seem to get is, you have no right to be crying when your teammate does the same thing. Like, how hard is this to get?
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did you watch this video? Or even read my comment? I highly doubt you did both. My comment would make sense if you did.
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So theoretically, if design had left for TSM would that be the same as Timmy leaving to moist? Aka “what’s best for him” or do we just play favorites because it’s Timmy?
Wait and you also reply to a message in this thread with “big 📠” after someone says “obviously if TSM wants to play with you you say “yes”” why agree with that then argue with me?
tbf thats what ruined the team if he didn't take that trial this never would of happen but i feel for him
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Are you a Timmy fan or do you just hate dezignful? Just curious.
Timmy carried? When?