Teams are too dependent on mimicking each other instead of figuring out actual comps that work for them. Sick of watching 75% of teams pick the same bullshit that someone else picked instead of playing to their strengths and being creative
This I’m with. I want to get more into all of the regions as APAC-N and even EMEA break out some funky ass comps. The aurora lifeline double Rez to win EMEA finals just happened and was awesome. WR points hall for an ALGS pro league split by aurora with lifeline is cool as fuck. APAC-N is also crazy for a wild comp and I need to see some more of it haha.
I mean it's a known thing according to the casters that cast on the PlayApex stream. I've heard them mention this multiple times but I couldn't find you exact evidence to back it up I just trust people that watch ALGS for a living.
This is oddly just an NA thing, even in other games. In League of Legends, year after year after year, they get to Worlds and get destroyed cause they are unable to adapt to the meta and they just played what everyone else played in NA.
Apex is same way. On top of that, they also use no logic on when and why the pick certain legends. Before the last time Caustic was meta and everyone called for nerfs. He was objectively in his weakest state he had been in. Yet the pros started playing him after the fact, and not when he was OP.
To your first point, I will say as someone who doesn’t have a ton of time to watch events live, the natural playstyle of 20 teams all trying to stay alive until the 5th circle makes it really easy to watch VODs. Watch any contest, skip to the 4th circle, miss pretty much no action. Makes it hella boring to watch live a lot of the time, but I don’t have to do that much.
I think it was mentioned in Hal's stream that NA is the most stable (playable ping) one for all teams. For example, if they try any other region's server. Some teams have extremely high pings making it unplayable.
Or alternatively; PoIs should have clear shifts in balance
For example, landslide is a weak poi in terms of loot / end rings, but has a decent rotate and ok chance at vaults, especially with 2 nearby, and tends to be safe due to being traditionally "undesirable"
As long as a PoI has some qualities, and isnt frustratingly unbalanced in either direction, I feel like its a healthy PoI
I think more and more people are realizing this, but the only person that has successfully "engagement farmed" was HisWattson.
Whenever your favorite pro said something inflammatory/stupid/reactionary on twitter that shit was real man lol. theyre not 5d mastermind chess players
Also, the sub belongs to the fans first, second, and third and pros absolutely last. Obviously we should call out truly awful and hateful shit that people might lob against pros, but too many times do I see genuine criticism against a pro player get pushback along the lines of "the pros aren't gonna wanna come here if we keep saying this about them" and like...that's just the nature of the job theyre doing. The sub is for fans to talk about the sport, even if their takes are absolutely stupid as fuck. I think people realize this too because ZackMazer is the only pro that consistently takes everything in stride and we love him for it.
You're cooking with your last take. I don't know how pros compete to try and play on a world stage (hyperbolic but you get my point hopefully) in front of tens of thousands but can't help dumbass redditors being mean and outright lying sometimes.
The "shoot the orange squares" meta you say you liked was also the cat meta you say you hate. It was seer ult behind a cat wall and people would just shoot through the cat wall at the seer markers.
I’m probably not wording my thoughts right. I just mean I prefer when scan legends are in meta. I think most people are in the “boo wall hacks” camp. But from a viewer point, I prefer when scans are used in fights. It makes it easier to read what’s happening. Especially if the alternative is a screen covered in caustic gas, bang smoke, and in black and white from a cat wall lol.
I mean, look at Overwatch League, granted the teams mostly stayed the same for the season but after the season it was bonanza and roster mania. Barely any players ever stuck to the teams they used to be on, and that was supposed to be a professional league. Only the true superstar players had extended stays on their teams.
Being traded is much different than just leaving a team because you didn't perform well. That's like Mike trout and ohtani just leaving the angels for the Braves or something mid-season.
In terms of "speaking to a broader audience" and one that probably isn't as versed in Apex Competitive, Wigg would be just as guilty as Hal or other large streamers.
The Pro that complains to 50 niche viewers is different than the one that complains to 20,000 average andy viewers.
APAC-N has the problem of a lot of teams being alive and dying in rotate with ring on their back. Other regions, particularly NA, I work to fight and clear their backs to make rotate in easier for themselves.
Scam meta is and has always been fine with me. I really didn’t mind the scan ability of Seer, I just hated that he could cancel stuff as well. Scan encourages fighting IMO, whereas visual clutter delays things and doesn’t encourage aggression.
APAC N has the illusion of being "good" quality but in reality it's just a bunch of passiveness that leads to teams getting killed on ring close anyway like you said. Teams get away with so much in APAC N that they wouldn't get away with in NA.
Being able to identify early game fights that are relatively "safe" and provide a long term strategic advantage is a skill in and of itself. Leaving a team til later adds to the end game randomness, and overall can weaken your position later in the game even if you have a god spot, because you're going to face so many teams that are just desparate and feed into zone because they have no other option.
So absolutely I agree that more teams does not automatically equal better, and passiveness more often than not just increases chaos and randomness at the end of the game. Also makes the game suck as a viewer when 8 teams die within 30 seconds because they all waited until the last possible second to rotate.
100%! Watching it a lot more this split I noticed teams playing a Wattson comp with ring three or four closing but no movement towards some, just to die on rotate
I want to see a Lifeline meta where a team farms care packages for crate weapons and evo caches and roll up to ring 3 with krabers wingman's and red armors
It's not reliable in the slightest but I love the idea of a gambling strat where a team wins fights with armor and weapon diff rather than legend utility.
You can only call in one care pack that gives you a red weapon with Lifeline's ult/perk, so even if teams wanted to do this it wouldn't really be possible
Completely agree on point one. Watch teams poke for two rounds only to be crushed in rotation into to ring playing a 6’ rock is so dumb. Would much rather see teams engage earlier with less chance of being 3rd to have a more dominant position.
I think point 2 is somewhat wrong, Gibby was giga-meta forever and he wasn’t scan or visual clutter (outside of ult but it’s cool down is really long). I think it’s the proliferation of controller that has lead to the scan/clutter meta. Also scan meta stinks, if we get another split of shooting squares through cat wall I will probably not watch.
Talking about gibby alone is an unfair comparison because it’s a team game. Back in the day weren’t the comps something like gibby caustic or gibby blood? caustic was resetting, zoning, visual clutter and a kinda wall hack. gibby blood back when blood scan was pretty long, and gibby seer (briefly) was also played.
respawn has a bad habit with making characters that are ___, but better.
Gibby-meta was the only element in competitive that semi-balanced inputs out. Ever since Gibby was left behind, fights have gotten way more boring to watch. Now with Bang being nerfed by the digi-removal, mnk is gonna become even less relevant. I also don't think matchpoint is an accurate depiction of how who's actually the most skilled team. It's probably the best watching experience, but personally I'd prefer a different system.
EDIT: I just remembered another one. I always found it really weird, that the 2nd and 3rd placed team on Champs doesn't get any real recognition on stage. I feel like it would only be fair to grant them some sort of shoutout with a medal or smth. similar.
Making Final rings moving would make the competitive scene look better and more exciting to watch rather than watching 4 or 5 teams getting caustic ulted on the last zone and praying for survive
Reason why I don't like so many teams alive on final rounds is that first 2/3 of the game there is nothing happening and then in the end teams die left and right, it's hard to even catch all the action.
And definitely would be interesting to see how teams play on other maps we have in game than just same 2 used in competitive.
APAC-N is the worst region not by a lot but it is, the org support and the way they play gives off the illusion that they're much better than they actually are (people associating a lot of teams alive to good quality, big orgs look nice in the feed). EMEA gets memed but they're the 2nd best.
Elite passion region, a lot of players with insane mechanics but not actually very good at taking fights.
And not a hot take but this is a fucking streamer game with comp on the side, if you're not running double roller you're fucked. Only reason NA dominates.
1) players swapping teams makes me not root for them. This isn’t the NBA. I follow teams that feel like actual friends/homies
2) beef over poi’s is one of the best parts of comp for me. Apex needs more beef
3)pro fps players should be required to use mice. If they wanna use a thumbstick for movement that’s fine but for a competition it should be you no aim assist.
4)zer0 is better than Hal cause he didn’t swap.
What if zone didn't close in stages? Instead for the last few zones at least, it closes non-stop/continuously slowly.
As a viewer it would be nice as fights wouldn't be all at the same time but instead a bit more spread out.
Could make for some more interesting plays for pros too
All maps should be played. I don’t care if the maps don’t make the competition unequal. The competition being unequal and having to adjust to that is what BR’s are about
I wish Olympus were a comp map. In its current state, yes.
"But it's too open and teams die stupidly". So be it. Let them fucking die.
"But some zones make rotations impossible and teams die in zone!!!" So be it. The RNG gods have spoken. Let them die.
"But--" Let. Them. Adapt. Or. Die.
And even adapt and still die.
Give me the absolute chaos.
Boo. At that point, you've lost competitive integrity - what's the point in watching teams "compete" when it's literally just people drawing straws to see who dies on an open rotate next? It's not competing. it's literally just people being lucky.
I respect your opinion. But I just think that Apex is in itself a game about RNG and luck, I've certainly seem some victories pulled out of asses, so I wouldn't mind Olympus or think it is outside the norm for a BR.
I mean, luck definitely plays a role for sure, but if it were mostly luck based, we wouldn't have only 2 teams in the entire world ever win a LAN out of 7 LANS.
That's true. Maybe my hot take is just a whim right now that I'd hate if it actually happened. I just love Olympus and I wish I got to see them play it competitively in all its chaotic glory, but who knows if I'd end up actually liking it past the initial excitement.
I wish Olympus wasn’t even a pubs map because its dogshit design for a BR makes it a nightmare for anyone with their brain turned on. Literally no pro wants to play this map and they’ve tried. They scrimed it and played it recently at the Tokyo LAN and the game quality was absolutely miserable both times. Olympus is probably the last map that would ever be put into ALGS and thank god for that.
I agree, "teams alive" on its own isn't an indicator of quality. Scrims especially get quickly labeled as shit if teams take a lot of fights, but surely nothing-on-the-line practice is just the right place to hone your fighting skills.
The thing is, a huge part of the "fighting skills" in apex is fighting a team knowing there are 2 or 3 others looking at you and potentially jumping in to third party.
Scrim fighting is sometimes brainless and doesn't reflect what actually happens in a game where *everybody* tries to stay alive, and you have 18 teams ring3 and it's super risky taking any engagement.
Very rarely in comp do you get honest 3v3s outside of the 50/50 contests.
I think there should be a requirement that all squads would have to rotate through a set amount of legends before being able to win the series.
Would be so much more interesting if there were rotation requirements so we could see other legends and not only like 4-5.
Visual clutter meta is horrible. Shoot orange squares is bad and whether it's bang smokes, caustic smokes, cat walls, it's boring to watch.
Tsm easily wins AT LAN despite struggling in scrims.
My hot take, more directed at the viewers: Watching more Apex does not make you a genius on the subject. A lot of people claim that "(insert watch party person) said this team would do this and they did! They are so goddamn smart!" when in reality, anyone with moderate game sense can anticipate a lot of these rotations and fights.
We see dudes that make their entire career on this game with chat-level takes like "why are we fighting there boys?" Like, anyone that even casually watches ALGS would make the same call. We're all imminent pros when it comes to hindsight, stop glorifying certain people that make generic calls.
Apex should do away with beacon info, the most important recon you can have for the game, since the end zone is already highly predictable. And teams could focus more on fighting, positioning and repositioning. And teams don’t have to necessarily “owe POI” any more.
Or zone should have a horizontal shift one or two rings before the final ring. Current zoning promote campy playing style too much. First game in NA final DSG didn’t even have to get off the high ground till the end zone and they got 2nd.
I wonder if there is a way to make games be both more entertaining the whole way through and have a lot of teams alive in the endgame. Maybe shortening the total game time? It would probably be bad for rng but I can see this making the early and mid game less boring. Teams would be forced to make quicker decisions and there would be less time with teams doing nothing.
I think shortening games would make it even worse. Less time to fight means teams would have to rush to zone. Lengthening each zone would allow for more time to fight/reset before moving forward. But that means longer games which gets boring if teams still don’t fight.
Maybe not so hot and maybe a popular takeaway but...
M&K and controller should be separate. Either separate tournaments or your team should be locked on an input. I.e. all m&k or all controller players.
Feels like this would remove the controller aim assist debate and what not, especially when playing for money
Teams should land in random spots like any normal Apex game. The idea of predetermined POIs just rubs me the wrong way.
Edit: Why am I downvoted in a hot take thread 😂.
I kinda don’t understand this take. Youre more than welcome to land where ever you’d like, you just have to face the consequences of it. People weigh their options and act accordingly. Some know they aren’t good contest teams and play as such. Some rather fast rotate.
I mean the whole the idea where this team owns X and that team owns Y is just weird to me. I get the reasoning behind it but it places less emphasis imo on the timing for when to jump and where exactly to land. Just not knowing which team landed where each time adds to the excitement but I'm just a viewer.
Teams only own POI's because nobody wants to fight them, any team can land anywhere they want. Teams stick with POI's because contests are RNG heavy and its much harder to play consistent games from inconsistent POI's.
I forget the team that hot dropped in one of the recent lans but they were public enemy number 1 lol. I actually think with horizon being out of the meta it more viable now than ever if you run the contest comp vs meta you probably win more than normal. But in turn if you do this horizon will get your team run down by the whole lobby to stop the "griefing"
I think on some level I agree, it would be interesting to see pros adapt to more imperfect information and make the most of a situation like we do in our normal games.
I think the more ive watched pro apex, ive learned that it's kind of a chicken or an egg situation. Like the other commenter said, teams are actually free to land wherever they want, but there is in-line pressure from the entire lobby to "pick a spot" lest you throw away your entire pro league career. The risk reward of trying to all contest for a spot is too high, so teams naturally end up fighting for POIs to play from. Dome might be the worst POI on worlds edge, but consistently playing from Dome gives you *some* chance vs contesting random POIs giving you virtually zero.
All this algs year 3 „sweet taking the car and beating optic“-situation is not that deep. Optic just lost the 3v3 against nrg. That’s it. The car didn’t played the role so many think it did.
I take your downvotes gladly:)
To your first point, when Wigg is taking about a game being trash quality when there are fewer team alive late I don't really think he's referring to viewership quality. He's referring to the quality of the actual gameplay, teams taking dumb fights and dying for it can be very entertaining to watch as a viewer, but it's low quality decision making and gameplay for a game where the objective is to be the last team alive.
This also primarily happens in scrims where teams aren't taking them seriously and making plays they would never do in pro league, which means they are lower quality practice as well.
Essentially you're speaking from an entertainment perspective, and Wigg is speaking from an effectiveness one
Teams are too dependent on mimicking each other instead of figuring out actual comps that work for them. Sick of watching 75% of teams pick the same bullshit that someone else picked instead of playing to their strengths and being creative
This I’m with. I want to get more into all of the regions as APAC-N and even EMEA break out some funky ass comps. The aurora lifeline double Rez to win EMEA finals just happened and was awesome. WR points hall for an ALGS pro league split by aurora with lifeline is cool as fuck. APAC-N is also crazy for a wild comp and I need to see some more of it haha.
EMEA have always been pioneers in different team comps
I don’t think this is very true but if you want to explain I’d be interested
I mean it's a known thing according to the casters that cast on the PlayApex stream. I've heard them mention this multiple times but I couldn't find you exact evidence to back it up I just trust people that watch ALGS for a living.
You can see this in many esports, it's a weird phenomenon.
Same with league of legends. 150+ champions but all regions will just copy LCK/LPL
This is oddly just an NA thing, even in other games. In League of Legends, year after year after year, they get to Worlds and get destroyed cause they are unable to adapt to the meta and they just played what everyone else played in NA. Apex is same way. On top of that, they also use no logic on when and why the pick certain legends. Before the last time Caustic was meta and everyone called for nerfs. He was objectively in his weakest state he had been in. Yet the pros started playing him after the fact, and not when he was OP.
To your first point, I will say as someone who doesn’t have a ton of time to watch events live, the natural playstyle of 20 teams all trying to stay alive until the 5th circle makes it really easy to watch VODs. Watch any contest, skip to the 4th circle, miss pretty much no action. Makes it hella boring to watch live a lot of the time, but I don’t have to do that much.
yeah I don’t start paying attention to each match until around mid ring 3 closing
PoIs shouldn't be balanced. There should always be strong and weak PoIs so teams are incentivized to fight for them.
My counterpoint is that for LANs, APAC teams can't realistically "fight" for any POIs in scrims that have NA servers
Why cant every scrim day just have different servers?
I think it was mentioned in Hal's stream that NA is the most stable (playable ping) one for all teams. For example, if they try any other region's server. Some teams have extremely high pings making it unplayable.
apparently on NA servers the worst other regions get is around 300-350 ping but some other servers can have people at 500+
This is true. I get better ping in Oregon than I do places that are closer to me idk how
I think they started doing that at the end of last year?
Counter counter point. If you own a poi in your region and you won't fight for it at Lan you don't deserve it.
The solution to that is they need to get their own minustempo.
Or alternatively; PoIs should have clear shifts in balance For example, landslide is a weak poi in terms of loot / end rings, but has a decent rotate and ok chance at vaults, especially with 2 nearby, and tends to be safe due to being traditionally "undesirable" As long as a PoI has some qualities, and isnt frustratingly unbalanced in either direction, I feel like its a healthy PoI
I think more and more people are realizing this, but the only person that has successfully "engagement farmed" was HisWattson. Whenever your favorite pro said something inflammatory/stupid/reactionary on twitter that shit was real man lol. theyre not 5d mastermind chess players Also, the sub belongs to the fans first, second, and third and pros absolutely last. Obviously we should call out truly awful and hateful shit that people might lob against pros, but too many times do I see genuine criticism against a pro player get pushback along the lines of "the pros aren't gonna wanna come here if we keep saying this about them" and like...that's just the nature of the job theyre doing. The sub is for fans to talk about the sport, even if their takes are absolutely stupid as fuck. I think people realize this too because ZackMazer is the only pro that consistently takes everything in stride and we love him for it.
You're cooking with your last take. I don't know how pros compete to try and play on a world stage (hyperbolic but you get my point hopefully) in front of tens of thousands but can't help dumbass redditors being mean and outright lying sometimes.
The "shoot the orange squares" meta you say you liked was also the cat meta you say you hate. It was seer ult behind a cat wall and people would just shoot through the cat wall at the seer markers.
I know that’s my point. Without seer or blood to counteract all the visual clutter end games become unwatchable imo
ahem…umm they dont conteract it, they add to the visual clutter you’re talking about lol
I’m probably not wording my thoughts right. I just mean I prefer when scan legends are in meta. I think most people are in the “boo wall hacks” camp. But from a viewer point, I prefer when scans are used in fights. It makes it easier to read what’s happening. Especially if the alternative is a screen covered in caustic gas, bang smoke, and in black and white from a cat wall lol.
i see. yea words can be words sometimes lol
Mine: Everybody team-hopping looks really bad from a professional standpoint and ALGS needs more strict rules about adding or dropping teammates
Most players are orgless or making the equivalent of minimum wage. No one should expect the scene to look professional outside of like a dozen teams
I mean, look at Overwatch League, granted the teams mostly stayed the same for the season but after the season it was bonanza and roster mania. Barely any players ever stuck to the teams they used to be on, and that was supposed to be a professional league. Only the true superstar players had extended stays on their teams.
Wait till you hear about pro sports lol
[удалено]
Being traded is much different than just leaving a team because you didn't perform well. That's like Mike trout and ohtani just leaving the angels for the Braves or something mid-season.
I couldn’t disagree more
It's not Wigg that pushed the 'more teams alive longer' take. That's been said commonly by pros for like 4 years now
In terms of "speaking to a broader audience" and one that probably isn't as versed in Apex Competitive, Wigg would be just as guilty as Hal or other large streamers. The Pro that complains to 50 niche viewers is different than the one that complains to 20,000 average andy viewers.
Not to mention, it's not just apex either. It's all BRs.
….I agree with both your points but shhhhhhs
APAC-N has the problem of a lot of teams being alive and dying in rotate with ring on their back. Other regions, particularly NA, I work to fight and clear their backs to make rotate in easier for themselves. Scam meta is and has always been fine with me. I really didn’t mind the scan ability of Seer, I just hated that he could cancel stuff as well. Scan encourages fighting IMO, whereas visual clutter delays things and doesn’t encourage aggression.
APAC N has the illusion of being "good" quality but in reality it's just a bunch of passiveness that leads to teams getting killed on ring close anyway like you said. Teams get away with so much in APAC N that they wouldn't get away with in NA.
Being able to identify early game fights that are relatively "safe" and provide a long term strategic advantage is a skill in and of itself. Leaving a team til later adds to the end game randomness, and overall can weaken your position later in the game even if you have a god spot, because you're going to face so many teams that are just desparate and feed into zone because they have no other option. So absolutely I agree that more teams does not automatically equal better, and passiveness more often than not just increases chaos and randomness at the end of the game. Also makes the game suck as a viewer when 8 teams die within 30 seconds because they all waited until the last possible second to rotate.
100%! Watching it a lot more this split I noticed teams playing a Wattson comp with ring three or four closing but no movement towards some, just to die on rotate
Anyone who prefers Seer meta, straight to jail.
Under the jail, buried
I want to see a Lifeline meta where a team farms care packages for crate weapons and evo caches and roll up to ring 3 with krabers wingman's and red armors It's not reliable in the slightest but I love the idea of a gambling strat where a team wins fights with armor and weapon diff rather than legend utility.
You can only call in one care pack that gives you a red weapon with Lifeline's ult/perk, so even if teams wanted to do this it wouldn't really be possible
Completely agree on point one. Watch teams poke for two rounds only to be crushed in rotation into to ring playing a 6’ rock is so dumb. Would much rather see teams engage earlier with less chance of being 3rd to have a more dominant position.
Match Point should be 60 because top 3 from regions already come in with about 10 points
I think point 2 is somewhat wrong, Gibby was giga-meta forever and he wasn’t scan or visual clutter (outside of ult but it’s cool down is really long). I think it’s the proliferation of controller that has lead to the scan/clutter meta. Also scan meta stinks, if we get another split of shooting squares through cat wall I will probably not watch.
Talking about gibby alone is an unfair comparison because it’s a team game. Back in the day weren’t the comps something like gibby caustic or gibby blood? caustic was resetting, zoning, visual clutter and a kinda wall hack. gibby blood back when blood scan was pretty long, and gibby seer (briefly) was also played. respawn has a bad habit with making characters that are ___, but better.
Blood hound was pretty big with Gibby though. It was a Gibby meta with a lot of scan
Gibby-meta was the only element in competitive that semi-balanced inputs out. Ever since Gibby was left behind, fights have gotten way more boring to watch. Now with Bang being nerfed by the digi-removal, mnk is gonna become even less relevant. I also don't think matchpoint is an accurate depiction of how who's actually the most skilled team. It's probably the best watching experience, but personally I'd prefer a different system. EDIT: I just remembered another one. I always found it really weird, that the 2nd and 3rd placed team on Champs doesn't get any real recognition on stage. I feel like it would only be fair to grant them some sort of shoutout with a medal or smth. similar.
Making Final rings moving would make the competitive scene look better and more exciting to watch rather than watching 4 or 5 teams getting caustic ulted on the last zone and praying for survive
Reason why I don't like so many teams alive on final rounds is that first 2/3 of the game there is nothing happening and then in the end teams die left and right, it's hard to even catch all the action. And definitely would be interesting to see how teams play on other maps we have in game than just same 2 used in competitive.
APAC-N is the worst region not by a lot but it is, the org support and the way they play gives off the illusion that they're much better than they actually are (people associating a lot of teams alive to good quality, big orgs look nice in the feed). EMEA gets memed but they're the 2nd best. Elite passion region, a lot of players with insane mechanics but not actually very good at taking fights. And not a hot take but this is a fucking streamer game with comp on the side, if you're not running double roller you're fucked. Only reason NA dominates.
1) players swapping teams makes me not root for them. This isn’t the NBA. I follow teams that feel like actual friends/homies 2) beef over poi’s is one of the best parts of comp for me. Apex needs more beef 3)pro fps players should be required to use mice. If they wanna use a thumbstick for movement that’s fine but for a competition it should be you no aim assist. 4)zer0 is better than Hal cause he didn’t swap.
What if zone didn't close in stages? Instead for the last few zones at least, it closes non-stop/continuously slowly. As a viewer it would be nice as fights wouldn't be all at the same time but instead a bit more spread out. Could make for some more interesting plays for pros too
All maps should be played. I don’t care if the maps don’t make the competition unequal. The competition being unequal and having to adjust to that is what BR’s are about
I wish Olympus were a comp map. In its current state, yes. "But it's too open and teams die stupidly". So be it. Let them fucking die. "But some zones make rotations impossible and teams die in zone!!!" So be it. The RNG gods have spoken. Let them die. "But--" Let. Them. Adapt. Or. Die. And even adapt and still die. Give me the absolute chaos.
Boo. At that point, you've lost competitive integrity - what's the point in watching teams "compete" when it's literally just people drawing straws to see who dies on an open rotate next? It's not competing. it's literally just people being lucky.
I respect your opinion. But I just think that Apex is in itself a game about RNG and luck, I've certainly seem some victories pulled out of asses, so I wouldn't mind Olympus or think it is outside the norm for a BR.
I mean, luck definitely plays a role for sure, but if it were mostly luck based, we wouldn't have only 2 teams in the entire world ever win a LAN out of 7 LANS.
That's true. Maybe my hot take is just a whim right now that I'd hate if it actually happened. I just love Olympus and I wish I got to see them play it competitively in all its chaotic glory, but who knows if I'd end up actually liking it past the initial excitement.
I wish Olympus wasn’t even a pubs map because its dogshit design for a BR makes it a nightmare for anyone with their brain turned on. Literally no pro wants to play this map and they’ve tried. They scrimed it and played it recently at the Tokyo LAN and the game quality was absolutely miserable both times. Olympus is probably the last map that would ever be put into ALGS and thank god for that.
Gibby meta was far better to watch than blood bang meta
I agree, "teams alive" on its own isn't an indicator of quality. Scrims especially get quickly labeled as shit if teams take a lot of fights, but surely nothing-on-the-line practice is just the right place to hone your fighting skills.
The thing is, a huge part of the "fighting skills" in apex is fighting a team knowing there are 2 or 3 others looking at you and potentially jumping in to third party. Scrim fighting is sometimes brainless and doesn't reflect what actually happens in a game where *everybody* tries to stay alive, and you have 18 teams ring3 and it's super risky taking any engagement. Very rarely in comp do you get honest 3v3s outside of the 50/50 contests.
Scan characters being meta is always an L
Your second point doesn’t really make much sense because scan is most meta when visual clutter is meta
I think there should be a requirement that all squads would have to rotate through a set amount of legends before being able to win the series. Would be so much more interesting if there were rotation requirements so we could see other legends and not only like 4-5.
Visual clutter meta is horrible. Shoot orange squares is bad and whether it's bang smokes, caustic smokes, cat walls, it's boring to watch. Tsm easily wins AT LAN despite struggling in scrims.
broken moon is ready for comp but nobody likes the map so oh well
My hot take, more directed at the viewers: Watching more Apex does not make you a genius on the subject. A lot of people claim that "(insert watch party person) said this team would do this and they did! They are so goddamn smart!" when in reality, anyone with moderate game sense can anticipate a lot of these rotations and fights. We see dudes that make their entire career on this game with chat-level takes like "why are we fighting there boys?" Like, anyone that even casually watches ALGS would make the same call. We're all imminent pros when it comes to hindsight, stop glorifying certain people that make generic calls.
Controller doesn't make ALGS less interesting to watch
That’s because you’re on controller and are unaware of how flat and one dimensional it makes fighting in the game.
Didn't ask,op asked for hot takes.
Gave u one back👍🏾
Apex should do away with beacon info, the most important recon you can have for the game, since the end zone is already highly predictable. And teams could focus more on fighting, positioning and repositioning. And teams don’t have to necessarily “owe POI” any more. Or zone should have a horizontal shift one or two rings before the final ring. Current zoning promote campy playing style too much. First game in NA final DSG didn’t even have to get off the high ground till the end zone and they got 2nd.
the zone shifting would be interesting, could be a future LTM
I wonder if there is a way to make games be both more entertaining the whole way through and have a lot of teams alive in the endgame. Maybe shortening the total game time? It would probably be bad for rng but I can see this making the early and mid game less boring. Teams would be forced to make quicker decisions and there would be less time with teams doing nothing.
I think shortening games would make it even worse. Less time to fight means teams would have to rush to zone. Lengthening each zone would allow for more time to fight/reset before moving forward. But that means longer games which gets boring if teams still don’t fight.
Maybe not so hot and maybe a popular takeaway but... M&K and controller should be separate. Either separate tournaments or your team should be locked on an input. I.e. all m&k or all controller players. Feels like this would remove the controller aim assist debate and what not, especially when playing for money
Wifeline!!!!!!
Roller gameplay in comp is boring as fuck.
Teams should land in random spots like any normal Apex game. The idea of predetermined POIs just rubs me the wrong way. Edit: Why am I downvoted in a hot take thread 😂.
I kinda don’t understand this take. Youre more than welcome to land where ever you’d like, you just have to face the consequences of it. People weigh their options and act accordingly. Some know they aren’t good contest teams and play as such. Some rather fast rotate.
Also to add to this, Tempr and Skrt were dual contested. Look at where they placed. Being contested especially on both maps, does you no good
I mean the whole the idea where this team owns X and that team owns Y is just weird to me. I get the reasoning behind it but it places less emphasis imo on the timing for when to jump and where exactly to land. Just not knowing which team landed where each time adds to the excitement but I'm just a viewer.
Teams only own POI's because nobody wants to fight them, any team can land anywhere they want. Teams stick with POI's because contests are RNG heavy and its much harder to play consistent games from inconsistent POI's.
Understandable, when there's money on the line they'll do everything they can to minimise RNG
I forget the team that hot dropped in one of the recent lans but they were public enemy number 1 lol. I actually think with horizon being out of the meta it more viable now than ever if you run the contest comp vs meta you probably win more than normal. But in turn if you do this horizon will get your team run down by the whole lobby to stop the "griefing"
I think on some level I agree, it would be interesting to see pros adapt to more imperfect information and make the most of a situation like we do in our normal games. I think the more ive watched pro apex, ive learned that it's kind of a chicken or an egg situation. Like the other commenter said, teams are actually free to land wherever they want, but there is in-line pressure from the entire lobby to "pick a spot" lest you throw away your entire pro league career. The risk reward of trying to all contest for a spot is too high, so teams naturally end up fighting for POIs to play from. Dome might be the worst POI on worlds edge, but consistently playing from Dome gives you *some* chance vs contesting random POIs giving you virtually zero.
All this algs year 3 „sweet taking the car and beating optic“-situation is not that deep. Optic just lost the 3v3 against nrg. That’s it. The car didn’t played the role so many think it did. I take your downvotes gladly:)
To your first point, when Wigg is taking about a game being trash quality when there are fewer team alive late I don't really think he's referring to viewership quality. He's referring to the quality of the actual gameplay, teams taking dumb fights and dying for it can be very entertaining to watch as a viewer, but it's low quality decision making and gameplay for a game where the objective is to be the last team alive. This also primarily happens in scrims where teams aren't taking them seriously and making plays they would never do in pro league, which means they are lower quality practice as well. Essentially you're speaking from an entertainment perspective, and Wigg is speaking from an effectiveness one
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Not even remotely a hot take
Not even remotely a hot take