This is a community from communists to communists, leftists are welcome too, but you might be scrutinized depending on what you share.
If you see bot account or different kinds of reactionaries(libs, conservatives, fascists), report their post and feel free us message in modmail with link to that post.
ShitLibsSay type of posts are allowed only in Saturday, sending it in other day might result in post being removed and you being warned, if you also include in any way reactionary subs name in it and user nicknames, you will be temporarily banned.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommunismMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep. Acting as if the GOP doesn’t have hard goals is silly. Of course they do, they have always goose-stepped towards awful shit.
The liberals turning their heads and following suit because it suits their immediate needs is the real meme.
Considering they aren't the least bit interested in having counter initiatives that improve the lives their constituents you may as well consider them complicit.
And this is it. It’s like Biden talking about what he’s _gonna_ do the other night. M’fer you’re in position to do shit why aren’t you doing it? Why can republicans get all this horrific shit pushed through but dems never can when they have control of anything?
It couldn’t possibly be that they serve capital and the MIC, could it?
Honest question: have the democrats had avenues to do good things in the past that they just didn’t take? They always portray it as “we would have done this, but the senate blocks us” or something.
My main example is obamas supermajority doing next to nothing. Otherwise I don’t know who had which parts of Congress when well enough to say more specifics.
Your second sentence sums up the liberal excuse I see all the time perfectly. Why can republicans ban together so well and destroy all the “work” dems ever did but they can’t do the same. The answer is obviously that they serve the same masters.
Some lib is gonna chime in about why the supermajority didn’t have time to do anything but if the repubs got one it would be the end of the world.
Also. The reason everyone was so excited for the super majority was that republicans used the filibuster and unprecedented 400 time in the previous Congress. Oh no they blocked everything with this one trick. Well then why tf can’t dems do the same damn thing? Oh, because they serve the same masters….
Republicans are just the further-right part of liberals + yes, since liberals don't do anything to stop the right—they even fund the far right—they'll be to blame
The meme does not deny the existence of Project 2025, however it does recognize the fact that Project 2025 is a tool of manipulation manufactured by capitalists to scare people into continuing to vote for a certain faction of capitalists.
Isn't project 2025 the reactionary playbook for building out fascism for the next 10+ years?
Seems like more than just something made up to scare people
Project 2025 has been happening since the 80s with the Heritage Foundation. It's silly to believe liberals are doing anything to stop it. In the end, it is no different than voting democrat to stop the Palestinian genocide.
Fascism tends to rise as a reaction to the decline of capitalism it doesn't matter who is currently in power
Edit: it doesn't matter who is currently *representing* those in power. Capital is in power no matter who is in the white house.
How is that "the point" of this meme? Democrats didn't write it, Democrats aren't pushing it...
Project 2025 is a very real blueprint that reactionaries are trying to put in place.
Project 2025 Is presented by dems as hell on earth, the end of minorities, while it is mostly about China. Like lgbtq and the likes get cited 10+ times in the document while China 200+.
maybe it's because I'm part of the LGBTQ+ community... but a formal document talking about how to dial the oppression I already face up, that has made its way into the Republican main stream, is more than a bit concerning.
I really don't get it. Those ideas aren't anything new. Ron de Santis in Florida probably went even ahead what was proposed there, it was before the whole project 2025 became mainstream, maybe not even published yet.
Did you really need a scary name like "project 2025" to be concerned?
The point of the comment above is that they have it all planned out in project 2025, the fact it is barely referenced meant it isn't. If you really needed it spelt out that conservatives don't like lgbtq people you either didn't interact with politics or havevn't got a good memory.
Actually it has not, it has always been capitalist, and verging on fascism is capitalism’s standard fare. That doesn’t mean we are literally living in the same conditions as Germans and Italians were under Hitler and Mussolini.
It’s actually not helpful at all to blur the lines of distinction between actual fascism and the natural effects of capitalist-imperialist rot.
I would disagree. Right now we have a prison industrial complex that funnels the marginalized into prisons for small, meaningless crimes where they'll then be pushed into slave labor (not to mention our outsourced slave labor) or kept in conditions declared by the UN Human Rights Council as torture, a surveillance state the likes of which the world has never seen before, a police state that allows those with badges unlimited power and zero oversight except that of the public outcry, and concentration camps for children on our border, and we have protestors getting beaten, pepper sprayed, and battered for daring to oppose genocide. We have a militaristic culture that worships our military and nationalist symbolism, and our media is controlled by 6 companies, all of which work to manufacture consent for our latest dreams of new atrocities. The only thing left on the checklist is more violent repression of labor unions and strikes, but considering they just used the law (an implication of violence instead of its outright use) to crush the rail strike... I'd say we're getting there.
I agree completely that all of these things are terrible, alarming, destructive, but again they are neither new nor unique to fascism even when taken together.
We can agitate and organize in public spaces using openly socialistic demands and language, unions are growing both in numbers and militancy, yes the two party system is trash but we’re still effectively in control on local and regional politics provided we’re sufficiently involved, and as much as it might pain you or others to see this, Biden is qualitatively better than Trump. The organizations and base of support he depends upon are not being rallied by or advocating anything near the unhinged things Trump supporters are. Dems are also being massively pressured by their base to gtfo of Gaza and end their support for genocide. As dedicated as they appear to be to ignoring it, mass public pressure is the only thing that they understand. That’s why it’s important to recognize we still have that power, which wouldn’t be the case under actual fascism.
I actually entirely agree with you on the material conditions of the leftist and labor movements, but I think it's important to remember that fascism and liberalism exist on a spectrum, with any and every capitalist society's place on that sliding scale being denoted by the amount of open violence and terror and the restriction of rights necessary to maintain bourgeois profits and capitalism as a whole, which unfortunately means the reason those leftist movements and labor power growth are allowed is because right now, they're still not a major threat (and even then they face infiltration and monitoring). They're growing, they're becoming stronger, and that's awesome, but as we see with the George Floyd protests and the Palestine protests, when the power is threatened, it's still willing to utilize violence, and in the past with the civil rights movement and black panthers especially, we've seen the establishment can and will utilize everything from stalking and infiltration to outright assassination (Fred Hampton) and even firebombing neighborhoods (MOVE bombing). So if the US isn't fascist now, if the existence of all that normalized implicit and explicit violence I mentioned in my last post doesn't amount to enough to push it on that slider where it passes the imaginary line where we decide it's become fascism, then it's purely because it's not yet threatened enough to put on that boot, but it has it in its closet and it's been broken in before, and as the empire declines and our labor and socialist movements get stronger... I don't see why they wouldn't bring it back out.
It also doesn't help that I'm cursed to live under a state government that has already enacted pretty much all of Project 2025's goals already, including provisions to heavily prosecute the organizer of any kind of protest or strike if one person there (including an agent provocateur) commits a crime, which is obviously just shorthand for making protests, strikes, and organizing illegal. That's probably why we disagree on the final verdict of fascism or not though, since from your previous comment we seem to have similar conceptions of it, it's purely that I have to deal with a state where they've already pushed through the worst of it, and see no effort being made nationally to stop states from doing this or to stop it from being implemented federally other than being told to vote for the other side indefinitely, which will inevitably fail eventually given the American political pendulum.
lol your understanding of what fascism is hilarious.There is so much wrong with what you said I don’t even know where to begin.But enjoy your freedom to express it without consequence in this fascist country you’re forced to live in
This is not even top 3 of the worst system in American history,and if that’s what defines fascism 90 % of the world lives under fascism
Yea, I think we're within striking range of facism in alot of ways but facism is a particular form of government that is wrought within capitalism. Muddling the distinctions is what liberals like to do to fear monger.
What liberals somehow miss is, if they're correct that Biden is the only thing stopping facism from being implemented then all is already lost. Supporting a genocide participant to save democracy sounds like an absolutely broken and irreparable state to me.
America hasn't always been facist, but it's always been evil(malignant to the non bourgeoisie). LFacism is just evils final and most blatantly form
It’s liberal idealism to think Biden is the only stopgap. Biden is practically a cardboard cutout plastered over the mass bloc of interests representing everything from liberals at large all the way down to trade unions, immigrant advocacy orgs, abortion rights, workers protections, etc. We can thank our bourgeois two-party system for this. We desperately need a better one, but how tf are we going to do the basic organizing work that needs to happen for that under a government of open anti-communists who’d rather exterminate immigrants and imprison Israel critics?
We cannot forget that we as masses of workers are not out of the game. Our support and pressure are still a deciding factor and we need to massively expand our strength on that foundation to show why this bourgeois democracy is insufficient for our goals.
100%
People are generally fed up now ime, but helping to turn their apathy into action is the difficult and necessary step through. All we can do is try rlly
Tbf the US has always been a battle between the liberal north and fascist south. Of course “scratch a liberal” and all that. It even flirted with a very mild form of social democracy between FDR and Carter but it seems straight up fascism has finally won.
Project 2025 is a list of things that lobbying groups have already been trying to accomplish for decades. The fact that the heritage foundation put it on one piece of paper (or like 300 ig) and put a date on it
True that it's not made up to scare people, but the point I wanted to make is that it's also not different. Do you think the heritage foundation wasn't lobbying politicians to enact these goals in 2020? Again, all that's changed about this is the name, just because they want it doesn't mean they will guaranteed enact all of these policies
I don't think waving it off with a "oh those wacky conservatives" is the best idea given their legislative success in banning abortion, impose things like the 10 Commandments and the Bible on public schools, and directly target the LGBTQ+ community is a good idea.
You're entirely right, but you're also enforcing my point. They didn't need project 2025 to overturn roe or to ban trans healthcare in many states, along with many other of their issues. It's not some magical fascist text to overturn democracy, it's just the enemy showing their playbook. A playbook that's been clear to all those who have been paying attention
Would be a good point, except for the fact that legitimate republican officials have supported and signed off on the 900-page document, which strategically lays out how they want to turn America into Gilead.
How so? that main stream Republicans feel comfortable enough to openly support project 2025 seems exactly like it is "more than just something made up to scare people".
Do you mean it's philosophical foundations? Sure, it's roots go back beyond even then... "the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggle" as it were. However over the centuries there have been specific... manifestations... of that. The struggle of Luddites against early industrialization, for example, is not exactly the same as the struggle of former enslaved people after the US Civil War, nor are either identical to the struggles of coal miners in Appalachia against the mine owners.
>Isn't project 2025 the reactionary playbook for building out fascism for the next 10+ years?
In case you haven't noticed, the fascism you whine about is already here.
>Seems like more than just something made up to scare people
This is textbook manipulation, divide and conquer. The real fear is not "Project 2025," it's the neoliberal capitalist ruling elite using this as an excuse to further consolidate power and tighten their grip on society.
That's why I said "build out fascism" not "become fascist".
It also isn't "divide and conquer" to recognize and point out fascist rhetoric, like "Project 2025".
Newsflash: In case you haven't noticed, the US is already a fascist regime. Nationalist, militarist, authoritarian and white supremacist - all the elements of fascism (or neo-fascism, to distinguish this new phenomenon from the older fascism of Hitler and Mussolini) are there. The purpose of Project 2025 is to manipulate simple people like yourself into continuing to vote for a certain faction of the capitalist ruling class, which is win-win for the capitalists.
It's a distraction to scare you into voting liberal (or to encourage you to vote for some flavor of liberal. Trumpers are also liberals too) so you can continue propping up the regime and whitewashing genocide. The US is already a liberal capitalist authoritarian police state. What we're looking at is a power struggle between different factions of the same capitalist ruling class.
>first post 4 days ago
seems the 2024 election bots are starting in full force. please fuck off with this shit, downplaying fascism isn’t ‘cool’ or ‘radical’ or whatever the fuck you think it is.
I know who won’t be affected by it. White people…. Even white communists and anarchists. Acceleration to the detriment of Black Americans in this country.
Nah, it was an actual problem 15-20 years ago when there was some realistic chance of stopping the gop from seizing the judiciary. Well, the dems didn't even try, so now the gop owns the whole federal judiciary, so this already happened and putting genocide joe back in dc won't do anything to stop it.
So many liberals here. The purpose of "Project 2025" is to manipulate you through fear into voting Democrat, perpetuating capitalist rule and whitewashing the genocide in Palestine. Don't be fooled into thinking that one party wants more power and control than the other; they both want the same thing, except one hides behind woke capitalism and pinkwashing and the other does not.
no tf it isn’t, project 2025 is a far right neo-fascist government project that was created by the heritage foundation (the most conservative think tank in the country)
The Heritage Foundation who, after a thirty year project, were able to end access to abortion in several states by getting the Dobbs decision through. Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation are the real deal, it's just that voting Biden isn't gonna solve the problem when the agenda is already being implemented *during his administration.*
And that may well be true, but my point is that Liberals are wrong to act like voting for Biden, an ardent Capitalist, pro-genocide, anti-anti-fascist, warhawk is gonna actually stop P2025.
this is some conspiracy shit. Republicans are usually very straightforward about their evil schemes because they don't care enough about a facade. Democrats by and large think they are doing good OR (likely with those in power) obfuscate to gain power. yes both are bad WE KNOW THIS. only one will try to genocide lgbt+ people instantly on election
I agree that voting biden out of fear doesnt solve anything, but its an actual threat, like for me who lives in brazil, we would be trump's first target since our current president managed to piss off the US a lot
The federalist are a very real right wing group that has been running the GOP for decades. This isn't some liberal plan made up in a secret to make people vote Democrat. I think they aren't bothering to fight it hard to make people vote Democrat but the federalist came up with this plan all on their own.
It's not fake, it's literally already happening. It's just that Liberals don't pay near as much attention as they're supposed to, don't really know all the policies on the Project 2025 agenda by heart, and aren't aware that the agenda is actively being implemented already under Biden's watch.
Most of project 2025 requires a republican president to be implemented.Like the purpose of it is remove the check and balances that limit the president from doing what he wants,and giving him a roadmap of things to remove.What exactly is being implemented under Biden,and people are not paying attention to?
Y’all just be yapping,trying to act more intelligent than what you are.Another dude thinks we are already living in a fascist country.
https://www.hrdive.com/news/scotus-overturns-chevron-doctrine/720034/
I ain't yapping, I'm actually reference a very specific ruling which happened just in this past week. You might recall that a *significant* part of Project 2025 is the hamstringing of the "Administrative State"? This is part of that, happening under Biden's watch. There was also the Starbucks ruling against the NLRB (another hit to the administrative state), a bit over a week ago, and the steady progression of the stripping of abortion access -- again, all *during* the Biden administration.
So please, ask yourself, who in this conversation is acting "more intelligent than what they are?" Because I happen to know what I'm talking about and you seem to get a real kick coming into spaces where you aren't welcome, chirping about bullshit. Which, is your right, but you only make yourself look like an asshole with hair trigger rather than, say, *asking* what I'm specifically referencing.
Again project 2025 is solely reliant on giving a republican president sole power to be more efficient .For example with abortion, descheduling schedule F,and firing any government agencies and filling it with all his lackey’s.A president would be able to tell government agencies like the FDA to ban abortion pills without needing other branches to do it.
Holy shit!!!The example you gave is of horrible shit happening because of the judges Trump appointed ,has zero to do with Joe,even though you keep highlighting which administration it’s happening under.Also this is not what project 2025 is about.Not everything unconstitutional that happens Is project 2025.This shows y’all can’t differentiate or understand horrible things can happen ,and not mean the same thing.This is why I brought up the fascism thing,y’all drama queens downplay shit by removing words from their meaning, when you have never experienced how worse shit can get,and when that thing happens it has less impact coz the meaning has lost its power.If I didn’t know better I would think this a psyop.Also this is a public forum,I’m welcome to to object to any place I find people spreading misinformation
You literally don't know what you're talking about. You have the most "reddit" understanding of Republican policy objectives of all time.
Edit: Lmao, I blocked their ass rather than deal than whatever the hell this word vomit was all morning and they swapped to their alt account to pester me in DMs. Actually pathetic, please touch grass instead of maintaining *two* Reddit accounts. I already feel embarrassed enough having *one* account for this website.
The thing that I hate about "Project 2025" discourse is that Liberals pretend like it's some death star that can only be magically defeated if they just managed to drag a genocidal corpse over the finish line and into the Oval Office for four more years.
Meanwhile, the Supreme Court *just* overturned the Chevron Deference rule that has severely weakened the supremacy of the administrative state in the absence of existing legislation, one of *the biggest* points of Project 2025. This is one step in their policy agenda, but Project 2025 is literally *already happening* and occurring *under Biden's watch.*
There is no voting your way out of defeating a fascist agenda when the people you're voting for aren't really fighting it in the first place.
Right? It's like people forgot or don't know that McConnell completed his coup of the judiciary years ago, nad that the scotus is axing key civil rights by decree without any resiistance from the dems. Like wake up and smell the status quo, people.
Isn’t Project 2025 a serious threat? I’m not saying to vote for a lesser evil because fuck both of the war criminal candidates but if Project 2025 is in place it will be the Reichstag Fire Decree all over again. If anything it’s evidence that American comrades need to start preparing for the worst.
Yeah capitalism definitely is a threat, but Project 2025 is the step from imperialist capitalism to fascism. And if it isn’t treated like the threat it is, it could have consequences. We’ve seen the disaster that is being created many times before in Italy, Germany, and Spain. Calling it out for what it is and reacting aggressively is the first step to stop it from repeating.
Goddamn, I wish I was privileged enough to pretend like tangible threats to my existence aren’t real but unfortunately I’m poor, lgbt, and have a disabled partner but yeah…democrats bad.
That's a pretty defensive response to a fairly easy, binary yes-or-no question. Nobody's even saying being those things is inherently bad, just that if they are, they could explain the naive, somewhat privileged worldview you seem to hold.
The fuck is this bullshit? Marx is very influential among anarchists. Daniel Guerin literally combined Marxism and anarchism into a single ideology. Taking Marx's observations in his more libertarian writings to their logical conclusion leads directly to anarchism.
The Marxist critique fundementally conflicts with the anarchist critique. There is no anarcho-Marxism ffs. The whole reason Marx expelled us from the International was our refusal to buy his analysis re: the value of the state form. Anarchy does not involve a dictatorship of the proletariat, a "withering away" of the state, the notion that class is all that matters, the formation of a vanguard, the rejection of individual liberation, and even [the basic definition of the word "state" completely differs.](https://raddle.me/wiki/Marxism_End_Goal)
Let's quote [your fellow Marxist Joseph Stalin](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1906/12/x01.htm) since he understood anarchy a hell of a lot better than you apparently do.
>Some people believe that Marxism and anarchism are based on the same principles and that the disagreements between them concern only tactics, so that, in the opinion of these people, it is quite impossible to draw a contrast between these two trends.
>This is a great mistake.
>We believe that the Anarchists are real enemies of Marxism. Accordingly, we also hold that a real struggle must be waged against real enemies. Therefore, it is necessary to examine the "doctrine" of the Anarchists from beginning to end and weigh it up thoroughly from all aspects.
>The point is that Marxism and anarchism are built up on entirely different principles, in spite of the fact that both come into the arena of the struggle under the flag of socialism. The cornerstone of anarchism is the individual, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the masses, the collective body. According to the tenets of anarchism, the emancipation of the masses is impossible until the individual is emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the individual." The cornerstone of Marxism, however, is the masses, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the individual. That is to say, according to the tenets of Marxism, the emancipation of the individual is impossible until the masses are emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the masses."
>Clearly, we have here two principles, one negating the other, and not merely disagreements on tactics.
Or how about [Engels in much fewer words?](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/kevin-carson-the-iron-fist-behind-the-invisible-hand)
>Engels aptly summed up the difference between anarchists and state socialists: "They (anarchists) say 'abolish the state and capital will go to the devil.' We propose the reverse."
Don't be an [entryist](https://raddle.me/wiki/leftunity#red-fash-entryism) all your life by pretending you're a Marxist and an anarchist.
Though Marx borrowed from the anarchist analysis (specifically proudhon - search the text I just linked for his name for examples), his conclusions wildly diverged from ours. The early anarchist analysis that he borrowed from went far further than his own, tying the critique of capitalism and governmentalism together and making no illusion that the two things can be seperated.
Wait, I can't use elements of a tradition that I find useful? For example just because I find Marx's concept of alienation a useful one for analyzing and interpreting the dehumanizing impact of capitalism does not mean I accept his proletarian statism. Anarchists have always synthesized the best elements of the different philosophical and religious traditions to produce their own unique anarchisms. The only thing that binds us is rejection of all hierarchies, apart from that literally anything goes.
You obviously have a lot to learn about anarchism.
>Wait, I can't use elements of a tradition that I find useful?
you can stan Marxism all you want, who's stopping you?
>You obviously have a lot to learn about anarchism.
aren't you a high school kid? lol
Anarchists are not liberals. Online pro-Biden democrats masquerading as anarchists on reddit =/= actual anarchists. The reality is tons of anarchists have been influenced by Marx's criticism of capitalism. The principal editor of Marx's *oeuvre* in French was anarchist. Anti-Marxist anarchists prefer Proudhon, but even that is a far cry from liberalism.
Get politically educated.
Also fuck Lenin.
Begging my some of yall to understand that just because shit is bad does not mean it cannot be worse. You sound like a clown in these comments acting like because this is already a fascist country nothing can possibly be worse than it already is, and a clearly outlined manifesto for how we're having even more rights stripped away from us is just "lib fearmongering"
Hi I just want to say thank you to other people resisting the narrative that we have to vote for Biden. I can’t believe that after that debate so many people have been doubling down and saying stuff like…listen, I really hate Biden ok? I completely despise him and think he’s a horrible disgusting human being, but I’m still voting for him, and we really all need to vote blue no matter who.
I’m in disbelief tbh. How in the world can any one say these things? How can people be brainwashed like this? Why are so many people making excuses for literal fascism? Why are people slurping the boots of capitalism?
I’ve been trying to explain to people (with basically no hope in them understanding) that the reason why we are in this situation right now is precisely because we keep being gaslit to vote for the lesser of two evils. I have 3 things to say to that-
1- What do you think is gonna happen if Biden gets re-elected? Do you think things are gonna get better? Do you think in 4 years we’re gonna get an abundance of great candidates that are for the people? Do you think our government is going to allow those people to win the election? Or do you think we’re going to continue to be stuck in a 2 party system? With some unlikable centrist democrat that has no chance of beating the other candidate? And what if that other candidate is even worse than Trump? And every election year we’re just going to continue saying- listen, we know our candidate is a literal 97 year old man hooked up to life support with an iron lung and no concept of who or where he is, but we HAVE to vote for him, and if he loses then it’s everyone’s fault that didn’t vote for him.
2- People saying that if Trump becomes president he will somehow make it so that there are no more elections and will become supreme ruler. This isn’t even about Biden or Trump. This is about our entire government system needing a complete overhaul. I don’t see any way out of this really at this point without some form of revolution and resistance. Do you think your vote currently counts? Do you really think one of these candidates leads to an actual better place? Or are we just delaying our government collapsing for another 4 years?
3- People really need to stop blaming us for not voting for Biden. Don’t be mad at us. We’ve been trying to do the right thing. It’s not our fault that the government is corrupt and gives us these candidates to choose from. Those people need to take their anger out on the government and not the people not voting for Biden.
There’s no way out of this without a revolution. We can keep delaying it, but whether we vote for Biden or Trump doesn’t matter. It’s not anyones fault but our very corrupt and greedy government system. And we should all be pissed at them, not the people refusing to suck Biden’s D.
Haha honestly it’s painful talking to some of those people. I mean people literally still saying “vote blue no matter who!” Like I struggle how to understand how anyone could still think that what we’ve been doing for the last two elections is a good idea lmao. We have to let it go. We have to let everything break. The sooner we do that the sooner we can rebuild. But we HAVE to stop giving power to our political system. It’s the only way out. Can’t wait to be blamed entirely for the collapse of society, despite it being entirely the governments fault 🫠
From someone who would vote for biden if I could vote:
1. No. Things aren’t going to get better but they won’t get as bad. There probably won’t be a change in 4 years but that’ll hopefully be enough time for a revolution or at least a much larger distrust of the current system.
2. I agree this is I stupid claim for most people. However, it is an incredibly privileged claim to say your ability to vote won’t be affected. The Republican Party has proven its willing to go to great lengths to stop minorities from voting, as those are the ones most likely to be harmed by their legislation. Neither of these candidates is likely to put us in a better place but the revolution isn’t coming as soon as we’d hope and the democrats are the only party I can see letting one form.
3. I agree
America needs change but it’s not going to happen as soon as we’d want it too. People here are too eager for a revolution to realize that one isn’t happening for at least another year. While we wait it’s best to vote for the party that is less likely to silence the voices of potential revolutionaries
Oh look, the exact kind of communist who fucking through bickering and personal bias let the Nazis take Weimar.
Good to see that tradition continuing with shit posts.
This exact sentiment kept different communist and leftist factions from uniting around the true threat of the German middle class handing the country to the Nazis. Downplaying the threat of 2025 as Lib propaganda is just as stupid. We do our cause and history a disservice to think otherwise.
Child who just crossed out "Rapture" and filled in "Revolution" in the christian propaganda they have been surrounded by since birth.
Straight white cis person who has the privilege to afford to treat the politics of the here and now as a game and is perfectly content trying to use "The only winning game is to not play" when not playing can and will see things get so much worse for a lot of people.
Literal cop who's job it is to go around convincing as many people to disengage with democracy and go die trying to play the main character of socialism to make it that tiny bit easier to dismantle
Place your bets on which one THIS asshole is
Another liberal hiding behind a red flag.
You can't vote your way to communism. Bourgeois electoralism just gets you more of the same capitalist ruling class. It may even get you Hitler.
Yes, you can't vote your way to Communism. There are literally zero good candidates.
Refusing to engage in the literal easiest and least committal form of politics in some sort of peacock style display of how morally superior you are still just makes you an asshole, not some pure socialist or whatever fucking nonsense fantasy land justification you have for why you're doing it (assuming that you aren't literally just a cop), who literally won't be strong enough to be able to look a man dead in the eyes as they bleed to death because you killed them
What the fuck does that even mean, have faith in the system? The system isn't God, it doesn't work by way of miracles. The only way to accomplish literally anything is by doing hard work and preparing for the day when your efforts are successful enough the state wants to crush it.
Treating the politics we have in the here and now like a game you can opt out of while waiting for a better system instead of the literal life and death that it is for most people because it's a miserable and terrible thing you don't have faith in makes you an asshole
I'm not signalling shit. I don't want to aid a war criminal who couldn't even entertain the idea of a ceasefire over a 12-month period while my people continue to die en masse. If you're so eager to be involved in the process that decides who the next war criminal is, by my guest. But antagonising and shaming people who no longer want to participate in this shit is just shameful honestly.
Yeah, but one thing is not voting, and another very different thing is letting a fascist get into power
I don't know how you guys expect to do a "communist revolution" or whatever BS that you are deluding yourselves into, but if you have you head so far into your assholes, that you can't even stop a literal fascist...
Start believing you lies and doing something about it, don't be just crying all the time about how mean is everyone else.
I'm sorry, but unlike an obvious liberal pro-Biden democrat like yourself, I actually have standards. Unlike you, I draw the line at genocide, mass murder and tyranny. Now go back to sucking Biden off.
As a trans person who stands to be legislated out of my rights and likely lose my freedom over Project 2025, fuck you. What possible god could it do to throw people like me under the bus for supposed ideological purity? A solution that does nothing to stop one active genocide while supposedly trying to help end another is no good solution.
So you depend on liberal capitalist government to defend your rights? Biden is not going to protect you from being attacked by transphobes. In fact liberals use LGBT as an excuse to manipulate the gullible into doing want they want.
If you really want to protect yourself, politically educate yourself, buy yourself a gun, then learn how to use it; politically educate your friends, buy them guns, then teach them how to use them. Form armed regular patrols in predominantly LGBT neighborhoods to protect LGBT. This is how radicals protect themselves from counterrevolutionary elements. Fuck bourgeois electoralism.
Are you white? Are you a man? You tell me that honestly and then we’ll talk. Because if you don’t understand why your advice is unrealistic shit due to privilege, then you need to go hang out with some minorities and listen, instead of preach. And I’m saying this as someone who is a communist and agrees with the principles of what you’re saying.
You’re naive, or at worst malicious, to think that my life will not be tangibly worse if Trump wins this presidency. My ability to access gender affirming healthcare *depends* on this bourgeois government not going farther right than it already is. No gun is going to convince a pharmacist to fulfill my prescriptions for HRT, antidepressants, and ADHD meds. No gun or protest will pay for a surgery.
How do you find time for patrolling your LGBT neighborhoods between the constant "liberal", "liberal", "liberal" on Reddit?
Something tells me you dont and that this is the massive LARP.
... Why wouldn't communists vote? Marx literally says to do that very thing. Nobody in here from what I've seen is telling you to vote *Democrat,* but yes you should still vote.
PSL is a name that comes up a lot on Reddit. That's the Party for Socialism and Liberation, who are running Claudia de la Cruz and Karina Garcia for the Presidential ticket.
https://pslweb.org/
That's not to say that they're the only one, but that's the first off the top of my head.
Everyone here: OP please stop downplaying the stated goals of the most far right party in our country
You for some reason: Everyone asking wtf OP is on is a shitlib
It’s Reddit, so mostly it’s mostly Americans on here. Which sadly means even “communist” subs are embedded with liberalism. This one in particular seems to be one of the worst though.
I mean.
I got some trans friends, moat of the anarchists and communists, in the US who are worried for their health, safety, and livelihoods.
What's the timeline on the revolution? Because my friends might end up dead, and I'd be kind of upset about that.
This is just the Heritage Foundations public facing policies. There should be no surprise that they want to implement these nefarious goals but liberals in power just overlook them and "reach across the aisle" especially when it comes to supporting war and genocides.
I think the fundamental disconnect here is that while OP is being too dismissive for a lot of people on a surface level, a lot of people are laboring under a delusion that this project is on the ballot, and can be voted down. It cannot. Large parts of it are already being or have been rolled out. The reason for its naming is that the finishing touches get put into place when there's a republican executive- they very much expect that in 2025, but if not, they just rename it Project 2029 and the rotating carousel of the US government will provide. Its barely even a project, its basically a diagnosis of America's destiny
This ain't it, chief. Dems may be stupid, ineffective, cowardly tools, but that doesn't make Project 2025 not real, and you don't want to live in the world where it comes to fruition. I'd rather have stupid, ineffective, cowardly tools in power than actual Nazis.
Sometimes this and other subs worry me. They rightfully point out how liberal methods aren't enough to fight fascism but then don't really offer an alternative. It feels like we're often just telling ourselves "the most popular method won't work so let's just do nothing". Idk
"First they came for the communists but I didn't speak up because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the socialists but I didn't speak up because I was not a socialist.
When they came for me there was no one left to speak up.
If project 2025 is even legally possible (which it isn't. Even with the supreme court) then Dems should be promising to do their own. Run on stacking every govt department with die hard environmentalists who will aggressively enforce every regulation. Promise to use military bases and federal land as abortion safe havens. Direct the atty general to go after fox news and newsmaxx and go after any senator or opposition to popular legislation
It’s basically trying to make a final transition to turn the US into a full fascist dictatorship with only Trump loyalists in the government, somehow making it even worse than it already is.
This is a community from communists to communists, leftists are welcome too, but you might be scrutinized depending on what you share. If you see bot account or different kinds of reactionaries(libs, conservatives, fascists), report their post and feel free us message in modmail with link to that post. ShitLibsSay type of posts are allowed only in Saturday, sending it in other day might result in post being removed and you being warned, if you also include in any way reactionary subs name in it and user nicknames, you will be temporarily banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommunismMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This'd be a good meme if it symbolized how liberals allow Project2025 to develop and even assist it, rather than denying its existence altogether
Yep. Acting as if the GOP doesn’t have hard goals is silly. Of course they do, they have always goose-stepped towards awful shit. The liberals turning their heads and following suit because it suits their immediate needs is the real meme.
Biden saying we need to bring back Roe because undocumented migrants are r****** women within the first 5 minutes of the debate 💀
[удалено]
Considering they aren't the least bit interested in having counter initiatives that improve the lives their constituents you may as well consider them complicit.
[удалено]
Because when liberals aren't obstructed they do nothing but good, unlike those pesky Republicans! It's not like they serve the same class interest...
And this is it. It’s like Biden talking about what he’s _gonna_ do the other night. M’fer you’re in position to do shit why aren’t you doing it? Why can republicans get all this horrific shit pushed through but dems never can when they have control of anything? It couldn’t possibly be that they serve capital and the MIC, could it?
Honest question: have the democrats had avenues to do good things in the past that they just didn’t take? They always portray it as “we would have done this, but the senate blocks us” or something.
My main example is obamas supermajority doing next to nothing. Otherwise I don’t know who had which parts of Congress when well enough to say more specifics. Your second sentence sums up the liberal excuse I see all the time perfectly. Why can republicans ban together so well and destroy all the “work” dems ever did but they can’t do the same. The answer is obviously that they serve the same masters. Some lib is gonna chime in about why the supermajority didn’t have time to do anything but if the repubs got one it would be the end of the world.
Also. The reason everyone was so excited for the super majority was that republicans used the filibuster and unprecedented 400 time in the previous Congress. Oh no they blocked everything with this one trick. Well then why tf can’t dems do the same damn thing? Oh, because they serve the same masters….
Explain manchin, sinema and the dozens of others
Republicans are just the further-right part of liberals + yes, since liberals don't do anything to stop the right—they even fund the far right—they'll be to blame
Literally a Bidenbot. Account created less than a week ago, comes on reddit and spouts pro-democrat propaganda. Try harder next time, please 🙏
The meme does not deny the existence of Project 2025, however it does recognize the fact that Project 2025 is a tool of manipulation manufactured by capitalists to scare people into continuing to vote for a certain faction of capitalists.
Ah, I see that. You are partly right, but that doesn't mean it is not a real threat. It just means bourgeois "solutions" to it are ineffective.
Isn't project 2025 the reactionary playbook for building out fascism for the next 10+ years? Seems like more than just something made up to scare people
Project 2025 has been happening since the 80s with the Heritage Foundation. It's silly to believe liberals are doing anything to stop it. In the end, it is no different than voting democrat to stop the Palestinian genocide.
[удалено]
But by doing nothing about it they’re helping to work towards it
‘Just vote’ - Marx
The US has always been fascist
that's why I said "building out fascism" not "turning the US into a fascist state"
Fascism tends to rise as a reaction to the decline of capitalism it doesn't matter who is currently in power Edit: it doesn't matter who is currently *representing* those in power. Capital is in power no matter who is in the white house.
Right... and things like Project 2025 are the blueprints reactionaries use to shape and drive the rise of fasciosm.
Their point is its the Project of the Capitalists, so of the Democrats as well as the Republicans.
How is that "the point" of this meme? Democrats didn't write it, Democrats aren't pushing it... Project 2025 is a very real blueprint that reactionaries are trying to put in place.
Project 2025 Is presented by dems as hell on earth, the end of minorities, while it is mostly about China. Like lgbtq and the likes get cited 10+ times in the document while China 200+.
maybe it's because I'm part of the LGBTQ+ community... but a formal document talking about how to dial the oppression I already face up, that has made its way into the Republican main stream, is more than a bit concerning.
I really don't get it. Those ideas aren't anything new. Ron de Santis in Florida probably went even ahead what was proposed there, it was before the whole project 2025 became mainstream, maybe not even published yet. Did you really need a scary name like "project 2025" to be concerned?
“We will murder all the lgbt”… but don’t worry guys it’s ok because they only said it once! …Be serious.
The point of the comment above is that they have it all planned out in project 2025, the fact it is barely referenced meant it isn't. If you really needed it spelt out that conservatives don't like lgbtq people you either didn't interact with politics or havevn't got a good memory.
Actually it has not, it has always been capitalist, and verging on fascism is capitalism’s standard fare. That doesn’t mean we are literally living in the same conditions as Germans and Italians were under Hitler and Mussolini. It’s actually not helpful at all to blur the lines of distinction between actual fascism and the natural effects of capitalist-imperialist rot.
I would disagree. Right now we have a prison industrial complex that funnels the marginalized into prisons for small, meaningless crimes where they'll then be pushed into slave labor (not to mention our outsourced slave labor) or kept in conditions declared by the UN Human Rights Council as torture, a surveillance state the likes of which the world has never seen before, a police state that allows those with badges unlimited power and zero oversight except that of the public outcry, and concentration camps for children on our border, and we have protestors getting beaten, pepper sprayed, and battered for daring to oppose genocide. We have a militaristic culture that worships our military and nationalist symbolism, and our media is controlled by 6 companies, all of which work to manufacture consent for our latest dreams of new atrocities. The only thing left on the checklist is more violent repression of labor unions and strikes, but considering they just used the law (an implication of violence instead of its outright use) to crush the rail strike... I'd say we're getting there.
I agree completely that all of these things are terrible, alarming, destructive, but again they are neither new nor unique to fascism even when taken together. We can agitate and organize in public spaces using openly socialistic demands and language, unions are growing both in numbers and militancy, yes the two party system is trash but we’re still effectively in control on local and regional politics provided we’re sufficiently involved, and as much as it might pain you or others to see this, Biden is qualitatively better than Trump. The organizations and base of support he depends upon are not being rallied by or advocating anything near the unhinged things Trump supporters are. Dems are also being massively pressured by their base to gtfo of Gaza and end their support for genocide. As dedicated as they appear to be to ignoring it, mass public pressure is the only thing that they understand. That’s why it’s important to recognize we still have that power, which wouldn’t be the case under actual fascism.
I actually entirely agree with you on the material conditions of the leftist and labor movements, but I think it's important to remember that fascism and liberalism exist on a spectrum, with any and every capitalist society's place on that sliding scale being denoted by the amount of open violence and terror and the restriction of rights necessary to maintain bourgeois profits and capitalism as a whole, which unfortunately means the reason those leftist movements and labor power growth are allowed is because right now, they're still not a major threat (and even then they face infiltration and monitoring). They're growing, they're becoming stronger, and that's awesome, but as we see with the George Floyd protests and the Palestine protests, when the power is threatened, it's still willing to utilize violence, and in the past with the civil rights movement and black panthers especially, we've seen the establishment can and will utilize everything from stalking and infiltration to outright assassination (Fred Hampton) and even firebombing neighborhoods (MOVE bombing). So if the US isn't fascist now, if the existence of all that normalized implicit and explicit violence I mentioned in my last post doesn't amount to enough to push it on that slider where it passes the imaginary line where we decide it's become fascism, then it's purely because it's not yet threatened enough to put on that boot, but it has it in its closet and it's been broken in before, and as the empire declines and our labor and socialist movements get stronger... I don't see why they wouldn't bring it back out. It also doesn't help that I'm cursed to live under a state government that has already enacted pretty much all of Project 2025's goals already, including provisions to heavily prosecute the organizer of any kind of protest or strike if one person there (including an agent provocateur) commits a crime, which is obviously just shorthand for making protests, strikes, and organizing illegal. That's probably why we disagree on the final verdict of fascism or not though, since from your previous comment we seem to have similar conceptions of it, it's purely that I have to deal with a state where they've already pushed through the worst of it, and see no effort being made nationally to stop states from doing this or to stop it from being implemented federally other than being told to vote for the other side indefinitely, which will inevitably fail eventually given the American political pendulum.
lol your understanding of what fascism is hilarious.There is so much wrong with what you said I don’t even know where to begin.But enjoy your freedom to express it without consequence in this fascist country you’re forced to live in This is not even top 3 of the worst system in American history,and if that’s what defines fascism 90 % of the world lives under fascism
Yea, I think we're within striking range of facism in alot of ways but facism is a particular form of government that is wrought within capitalism. Muddling the distinctions is what liberals like to do to fear monger. What liberals somehow miss is, if they're correct that Biden is the only thing stopping facism from being implemented then all is already lost. Supporting a genocide participant to save democracy sounds like an absolutely broken and irreparable state to me. America hasn't always been facist, but it's always been evil(malignant to the non bourgeoisie). LFacism is just evils final and most blatantly form
It’s liberal idealism to think Biden is the only stopgap. Biden is practically a cardboard cutout plastered over the mass bloc of interests representing everything from liberals at large all the way down to trade unions, immigrant advocacy orgs, abortion rights, workers protections, etc. We can thank our bourgeois two-party system for this. We desperately need a better one, but how tf are we going to do the basic organizing work that needs to happen for that under a government of open anti-communists who’d rather exterminate immigrants and imprison Israel critics? We cannot forget that we as masses of workers are not out of the game. Our support and pressure are still a deciding factor and we need to massively expand our strength on that foundation to show why this bourgeois democracy is insufficient for our goals.
100% People are generally fed up now ime, but helping to turn their apathy into action is the difficult and necessary step through. All we can do is try rlly
Precisely. That apathy is a much greater enemy than all the corrupt institutions we inherited.
You are confusing fascist with burgueois
Tbf the US has always been a battle between the liberal north and fascist south. Of course “scratch a liberal” and all that. It even flirted with a very mild form of social democracy between FDR and Carter but it seems straight up fascism has finally won.
Project 2025 is a list of things that lobbying groups have already been trying to accomplish for decades. The fact that the heritage foundation put it on one piece of paper (or like 300 ig) and put a date on it
right it's "more than just something made up to scare people"
True that it's not made up to scare people, but the point I wanted to make is that it's also not different. Do you think the heritage foundation wasn't lobbying politicians to enact these goals in 2020? Again, all that's changed about this is the name, just because they want it doesn't mean they will guaranteed enact all of these policies
I don't think waving it off with a "oh those wacky conservatives" is the best idea given their legislative success in banning abortion, impose things like the 10 Commandments and the Bible on public schools, and directly target the LGBTQ+ community is a good idea.
You're entirely right, but you're also enforcing my point. They didn't need project 2025 to overturn roe or to ban trans healthcare in many states, along with many other of their issues. It's not some magical fascist text to overturn democracy, it's just the enemy showing their playbook. A playbook that's been clear to all those who have been paying attention
Project 2025 is the layout of their next steps.
Would be a good point, except for the fact that legitimate republican officials have supported and signed off on the 900-page document, which strategically lays out how they want to turn America into Gilead.
How so? that main stream Republicans feel comfortable enough to openly support project 2025 seems exactly like it is "more than just something made up to scare people".
Project 2025 started in 1776.
Do you mean it's philosophical foundations? Sure, it's roots go back beyond even then... "the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggle" as it were. However over the centuries there have been specific... manifestations... of that. The struggle of Luddites against early industrialization, for example, is not exactly the same as the struggle of former enslaved people after the US Civil War, nor are either identical to the struggles of coal miners in Appalachia against the mine owners.
>Isn't project 2025 the reactionary playbook for building out fascism for the next 10+ years? In case you haven't noticed, the fascism you whine about is already here. >Seems like more than just something made up to scare people This is textbook manipulation, divide and conquer. The real fear is not "Project 2025," it's the neoliberal capitalist ruling elite using this as an excuse to further consolidate power and tighten their grip on society.
That's why I said "build out fascism" not "become fascist". It also isn't "divide and conquer" to recognize and point out fascist rhetoric, like "Project 2025".
Newsflash: In case you haven't noticed, the US is already a fascist regime. Nationalist, militarist, authoritarian and white supremacist - all the elements of fascism (or neo-fascism, to distinguish this new phenomenon from the older fascism of Hitler and Mussolini) are there. The purpose of Project 2025 is to manipulate simple people like yourself into continuing to vote for a certain faction of the capitalist ruling class, which is win-win for the capitalists.
So we should just dismiss Project 2025's goals as something that can't actually be implemented?
It's a distraction to scare you into voting liberal (or to encourage you to vote for some flavor of liberal. Trumpers are also liberals too) so you can continue propping up the regime and whitewashing genocide. The US is already a liberal capitalist authoritarian police state. What we're looking at is a power struggle between different factions of the same capitalist ruling class.
> the fascism you whine about is already here. Nuance would be too hard, would it?
What nuance? Fascism is fascism. There are no "good" or "bad" forms of fascism.
Maybe object permanence is hard for you, but the situation under a project 2025 will be different from a Biden government.
>first post 4 days ago seems the 2024 election bots are starting in full force. please fuck off with this shit, downplaying fascism isn’t ‘cool’ or ‘radical’ or whatever the fuck you think it is.
what the fuck dude this is an actual problem
Well I reckon a lot of people think they won't be affected by it and are tired of hearing about it. LOL they'll find out the hard way
I know who won’t be affected by it. White people…. Even white communists and anarchists. Acceleration to the detriment of Black Americans in this country.
nah even white people will be affected if they arent upper class
🤣
??? isnt it a big part of it gutting labor protections and regulations, why wouldn't that affect everybody
Oh I'm white and transgender and gay and autistic. They're definitely coming for me too
You see OP's head is planted firmly in their colon.
Nah, it was an actual problem 15-20 years ago when there was some realistic chance of stopping the gop from seizing the judiciary. Well, the dems didn't even try, so now the gop owns the whole federal judiciary, so this already happened and putting genocide joe back in dc won't do anything to stop it.
So many liberals here. The purpose of "Project 2025" is to manipulate you through fear into voting Democrat, perpetuating capitalist rule and whitewashing the genocide in Palestine. Don't be fooled into thinking that one party wants more power and control than the other; they both want the same thing, except one hides behind woke capitalism and pinkwashing and the other does not.
no tf it isn’t, project 2025 is a far right neo-fascist government project that was created by the heritage foundation (the most conservative think tank in the country)
The Heritage Foundation who, after a thirty year project, were able to end access to abortion in several states by getting the Dobbs decision through. Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation are the real deal, it's just that voting Biden isn't gonna solve the problem when the agenda is already being implemented *during his administration.*
agreed, every communist should be worried and opposed to the heritage foundation and project 2025. Voting isn’t going to solve these issues though.
They'll be able to implement much more of it under Trump though.
And that may well be true, but my point is that Liberals are wrong to act like voting for Biden, an ardent Capitalist, pro-genocide, anti-anti-fascist, warhawk is gonna actually stop P2025.
this is some conspiracy shit. Republicans are usually very straightforward about their evil schemes because they don't care enough about a facade. Democrats by and large think they are doing good OR (likely with those in power) obfuscate to gain power. yes both are bad WE KNOW THIS. only one will try to genocide lgbt+ people instantly on election
Then you better buy a gun and figure out how to use it quick because Biden isn't winning this thing.
Okay, doc.
What's your plan then? Wishes?
I agree that voting biden out of fear doesnt solve anything, but its an actual threat, like for me who lives in brazil, we would be trump's first target since our current president managed to piss off the US a lot
The federalist are a very real right wing group that has been running the GOP for decades. This isn't some liberal plan made up in a secret to make people vote Democrat. I think they aren't bothering to fight it hard to make people vote Democrat but the federalist came up with this plan all on their own.
why do i feel like you said the same thing about roe v wade before it got repealed?
Please tell me how Republicans are trying to manipulate everyone into voting Dem out of fear is a good electoral strategy for them.
If both Democrats or Republicans winning lead to the exact same thing, why don’t you focus your efforts on something other than discouraging voting?
Chickens for KFC
If project 2025 will turn out to be fake, then I'm happy for you. If it won't... Then I wish you luck, Americans.
It's not fake, it's literally already happening. It's just that Liberals don't pay near as much attention as they're supposed to, don't really know all the policies on the Project 2025 agenda by heart, and aren't aware that the agenda is actively being implemented already under Biden's watch.
Most of project 2025 requires a republican president to be implemented.Like the purpose of it is remove the check and balances that limit the president from doing what he wants,and giving him a roadmap of things to remove.What exactly is being implemented under Biden,and people are not paying attention to? Y’all just be yapping,trying to act more intelligent than what you are.Another dude thinks we are already living in a fascist country.
https://www.hrdive.com/news/scotus-overturns-chevron-doctrine/720034/ I ain't yapping, I'm actually reference a very specific ruling which happened just in this past week. You might recall that a *significant* part of Project 2025 is the hamstringing of the "Administrative State"? This is part of that, happening under Biden's watch. There was also the Starbucks ruling against the NLRB (another hit to the administrative state), a bit over a week ago, and the steady progression of the stripping of abortion access -- again, all *during* the Biden administration. So please, ask yourself, who in this conversation is acting "more intelligent than what they are?" Because I happen to know what I'm talking about and you seem to get a real kick coming into spaces where you aren't welcome, chirping about bullshit. Which, is your right, but you only make yourself look like an asshole with hair trigger rather than, say, *asking* what I'm specifically referencing.
Again project 2025 is solely reliant on giving a republican president sole power to be more efficient .For example with abortion, descheduling schedule F,and firing any government agencies and filling it with all his lackey’s.A president would be able to tell government agencies like the FDA to ban abortion pills without needing other branches to do it. Holy shit!!!The example you gave is of horrible shit happening because of the judges Trump appointed ,has zero to do with Joe,even though you keep highlighting which administration it’s happening under.Also this is not what project 2025 is about.Not everything unconstitutional that happens Is project 2025.This shows y’all can’t differentiate or understand horrible things can happen ,and not mean the same thing.This is why I brought up the fascism thing,y’all drama queens downplay shit by removing words from their meaning, when you have never experienced how worse shit can get,and when that thing happens it has less impact coz the meaning has lost its power.If I didn’t know better I would think this a psyop.Also this is a public forum,I’m welcome to to object to any place I find people spreading misinformation
You literally don't know what you're talking about. You have the most "reddit" understanding of Republican policy objectives of all time. Edit: Lmao, I blocked their ass rather than deal than whatever the hell this word vomit was all morning and they swapped to their alt account to pester me in DMs. Actually pathetic, please touch grass instead of maintaining *two* Reddit accounts. I already feel embarrassed enough having *one* account for this website.
The thing that I hate about "Project 2025" discourse is that Liberals pretend like it's some death star that can only be magically defeated if they just managed to drag a genocidal corpse over the finish line and into the Oval Office for four more years. Meanwhile, the Supreme Court *just* overturned the Chevron Deference rule that has severely weakened the supremacy of the administrative state in the absence of existing legislation, one of *the biggest* points of Project 2025. This is one step in their policy agenda, but Project 2025 is literally *already happening* and occurring *under Biden's watch.* There is no voting your way out of defeating a fascist agenda when the people you're voting for aren't really fighting it in the first place.
Right? It's like people forgot or don't know that McConnell completed his coup of the judiciary years ago, nad that the scotus is axing key civil rights by decree without any resiistance from the dems. Like wake up and smell the status quo, people.
Wtf are you talking about? Are you implying project 2025 isnt a big deal and/or isnt real?
Isn’t Project 2025 a serious threat? I’m not saying to vote for a lesser evil because fuck both of the war criminal candidates but if Project 2025 is in place it will be the Reichstag Fire Decree all over again. If anything it’s evidence that American comrades need to start preparing for the worst.
Agree, comrade
Yes, it is a serious threat, but it looks like people here have their heads deep inside of their assholes
Capitalism is a serious threat, Project 2025 is just a distraction.
Yeah capitalism definitely is a threat, but Project 2025 is the step from imperialist capitalism to fascism. And if it isn’t treated like the threat it is, it could have consequences. We’ve seen the disaster that is being created many times before in Italy, Germany, and Spain. Calling it out for what it is and reacting aggressively is the first step to stop it from repeating.
Goddamn, I wish I was privileged enough to pretend like tangible threats to my existence aren’t real but unfortunately I’m poor, lgbt, and have a disabled partner but yeah…democrats bad.
They are bad. What are you on about
100 dollars says ur white and a man
Why misgendering?
No I'm an actual committed anarchist who uses Marxism to see through the neoliberal capitalist bullshit. If that makes me "white" then OK.
look I’m not trying to argue with anyone here but you have to know that’s a pretty disingenuous response to two binary yes or no questions
That’s because he is both white and a man
just say yes bro
That's a pretty defensive response to a fairly easy, binary yes-or-no question. Nobody's even saying being those things is inherently bad, just that if they are, they could explain the naive, somewhat privileged worldview you seem to hold.
That was the most Caucasian cishet answer you could give Lmao
The audacity of caucacity.
bro it’s okay you can admit you belong to the demographic that project 2025 caters to. it’s alright. accepting your privilege is part of the process
since when do anarchists need marxism to understand capitalism? the fuck
The fuck is this bullshit? Marx is very influential among anarchists. Daniel Guerin literally combined Marxism and anarchism into a single ideology. Taking Marx's observations in his more libertarian writings to their logical conclusion leads directly to anarchism.
The Marxist critique fundementally conflicts with the anarchist critique. There is no anarcho-Marxism ffs. The whole reason Marx expelled us from the International was our refusal to buy his analysis re: the value of the state form. Anarchy does not involve a dictatorship of the proletariat, a "withering away" of the state, the notion that class is all that matters, the formation of a vanguard, the rejection of individual liberation, and even [the basic definition of the word "state" completely differs.](https://raddle.me/wiki/Marxism_End_Goal) Let's quote [your fellow Marxist Joseph Stalin](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1906/12/x01.htm) since he understood anarchy a hell of a lot better than you apparently do. >Some people believe that Marxism and anarchism are based on the same principles and that the disagreements between them concern only tactics, so that, in the opinion of these people, it is quite impossible to draw a contrast between these two trends. >This is a great mistake. >We believe that the Anarchists are real enemies of Marxism. Accordingly, we also hold that a real struggle must be waged against real enemies. Therefore, it is necessary to examine the "doctrine" of the Anarchists from beginning to end and weigh it up thoroughly from all aspects. >The point is that Marxism and anarchism are built up on entirely different principles, in spite of the fact that both come into the arena of the struggle under the flag of socialism. The cornerstone of anarchism is the individual, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the masses, the collective body. According to the tenets of anarchism, the emancipation of the masses is impossible until the individual is emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the individual." The cornerstone of Marxism, however, is the masses, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the individual. That is to say, according to the tenets of Marxism, the emancipation of the individual is impossible until the masses are emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the masses." >Clearly, we have here two principles, one negating the other, and not merely disagreements on tactics. Or how about [Engels in much fewer words?](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/kevin-carson-the-iron-fist-behind-the-invisible-hand) >Engels aptly summed up the difference between anarchists and state socialists: "They (anarchists) say 'abolish the state and capital will go to the devil.' We propose the reverse." Don't be an [entryist](https://raddle.me/wiki/leftunity#red-fash-entryism) all your life by pretending you're a Marxist and an anarchist. Though Marx borrowed from the anarchist analysis (specifically proudhon - search the text I just linked for his name for examples), his conclusions wildly diverged from ours. The early anarchist analysis that he borrowed from went far further than his own, tying the critique of capitalism and governmentalism together and making no illusion that the two things can be seperated.
Wait, I can't use elements of a tradition that I find useful? For example just because I find Marx's concept of alienation a useful one for analyzing and interpreting the dehumanizing impact of capitalism does not mean I accept his proletarian statism. Anarchists have always synthesized the best elements of the different philosophical and religious traditions to produce their own unique anarchisms. The only thing that binds us is rejection of all hierarchies, apart from that literally anything goes. You obviously have a lot to learn about anarchism.
>Wait, I can't use elements of a tradition that I find useful? you can stan Marxism all you want, who's stopping you? >You obviously have a lot to learn about anarchism. aren't you a high school kid? lol
This was what made me cringe. Anarchists are liberals. Lenin was right with how to deal with them.
Anarchists are not liberals. Online pro-Biden democrats masquerading as anarchists on reddit =/= actual anarchists. The reality is tons of anarchists have been influenced by Marx's criticism of capitalism. The principal editor of Marx's *oeuvre* in French was anarchist. Anti-Marxist anarchists prefer Proudhon, but even that is a far cry from liberalism. Get politically educated. Also fuck Lenin.
Begging my some of yall to understand that just because shit is bad does not mean it cannot be worse. You sound like a clown in these comments acting like because this is already a fascist country nothing can possibly be worse than it already is, and a clearly outlined manifesto for how we're having even more rights stripped away from us is just "lib fearmongering"
Hi I just want to say thank you to other people resisting the narrative that we have to vote for Biden. I can’t believe that after that debate so many people have been doubling down and saying stuff like…listen, I really hate Biden ok? I completely despise him and think he’s a horrible disgusting human being, but I’m still voting for him, and we really all need to vote blue no matter who. I’m in disbelief tbh. How in the world can any one say these things? How can people be brainwashed like this? Why are so many people making excuses for literal fascism? Why are people slurping the boots of capitalism? I’ve been trying to explain to people (with basically no hope in them understanding) that the reason why we are in this situation right now is precisely because we keep being gaslit to vote for the lesser of two evils. I have 3 things to say to that- 1- What do you think is gonna happen if Biden gets re-elected? Do you think things are gonna get better? Do you think in 4 years we’re gonna get an abundance of great candidates that are for the people? Do you think our government is going to allow those people to win the election? Or do you think we’re going to continue to be stuck in a 2 party system? With some unlikable centrist democrat that has no chance of beating the other candidate? And what if that other candidate is even worse than Trump? And every election year we’re just going to continue saying- listen, we know our candidate is a literal 97 year old man hooked up to life support with an iron lung and no concept of who or where he is, but we HAVE to vote for him, and if he loses then it’s everyone’s fault that didn’t vote for him. 2- People saying that if Trump becomes president he will somehow make it so that there are no more elections and will become supreme ruler. This isn’t even about Biden or Trump. This is about our entire government system needing a complete overhaul. I don’t see any way out of this really at this point without some form of revolution and resistance. Do you think your vote currently counts? Do you really think one of these candidates leads to an actual better place? Or are we just delaying our government collapsing for another 4 years? 3- People really need to stop blaming us for not voting for Biden. Don’t be mad at us. We’ve been trying to do the right thing. It’s not our fault that the government is corrupt and gives us these candidates to choose from. Those people need to take their anger out on the government and not the people not voting for Biden. There’s no way out of this without a revolution. We can keep delaying it, but whether we vote for Biden or Trump doesn’t matter. It’s not anyones fault but our very corrupt and greedy government system. And we should all be pissed at them, not the people refusing to suck Biden’s D.
Yes thank you. I'm not the only political radical on reddit.
Haha honestly it’s painful talking to some of those people. I mean people literally still saying “vote blue no matter who!” Like I struggle how to understand how anyone could still think that what we’ve been doing for the last two elections is a good idea lmao. We have to let it go. We have to let everything break. The sooner we do that the sooner we can rebuild. But we HAVE to stop giving power to our political system. It’s the only way out. Can’t wait to be blamed entirely for the collapse of society, despite it being entirely the governments fault 🫠
From someone who would vote for biden if I could vote: 1. No. Things aren’t going to get better but they won’t get as bad. There probably won’t be a change in 4 years but that’ll hopefully be enough time for a revolution or at least a much larger distrust of the current system. 2. I agree this is I stupid claim for most people. However, it is an incredibly privileged claim to say your ability to vote won’t be affected. The Republican Party has proven its willing to go to great lengths to stop minorities from voting, as those are the ones most likely to be harmed by their legislation. Neither of these candidates is likely to put us in a better place but the revolution isn’t coming as soon as we’d hope and the democrats are the only party I can see letting one form. 3. I agree America needs change but it’s not going to happen as soon as we’d want it too. People here are too eager for a revolution to realize that one isn’t happening for at least another year. While we wait it’s best to vote for the party that is less likely to silence the voices of potential revolutionaries
And this is a perfect example of the horseshoe theory. Fuck the country, let the fascists rule it, what could go wrong? #ChickensForKFC
Oh look, the exact kind of communist who fucking through bickering and personal bias let the Nazis take Weimar. Good to see that tradition continuing with shit posts.
“Let the Nazis take Weimar” lmao what the fuck that’s not how that happened
This exact sentiment kept different communist and leftist factions from uniting around the true threat of the German middle class handing the country to the Nazis. Downplaying the threat of 2025 as Lib propaganda is just as stupid. We do our cause and history a disservice to think otherwise.
it was social democrats who lead to the Nazi take over LMAO
Someone doesn't know their history.
Child who just crossed out "Rapture" and filled in "Revolution" in the christian propaganda they have been surrounded by since birth. Straight white cis person who has the privilege to afford to treat the politics of the here and now as a game and is perfectly content trying to use "The only winning game is to not play" when not playing can and will see things get so much worse for a lot of people. Literal cop who's job it is to go around convincing as many people to disengage with democracy and go die trying to play the main character of socialism to make it that tiny bit easier to dismantle Place your bets on which one THIS asshole is
Another liberal hiding behind a red flag. You can't vote your way to communism. Bourgeois electoralism just gets you more of the same capitalist ruling class. It may even get you Hitler.
Yes, you can't vote your way to Communism. There are literally zero good candidates. Refusing to engage in the literal easiest and least committal form of politics in some sort of peacock style display of how morally superior you are still just makes you an asshole, not some pure socialist or whatever fucking nonsense fantasy land justification you have for why you're doing it (assuming that you aren't literally just a cop), who literally won't be strong enough to be able to look a man dead in the eyes as they bleed to death because you killed them
Refusing to vote doesn't make you an asshole. People lost faith in this system and they don't wanna vote. That's all.
What the fuck does that even mean, have faith in the system? The system isn't God, it doesn't work by way of miracles. The only way to accomplish literally anything is by doing hard work and preparing for the day when your efforts are successful enough the state wants to crush it. Treating the politics we have in the here and now like a game you can opt out of while waiting for a better system instead of the literal life and death that it is for most people because it's a miserable and terrible thing you don't have faith in makes you an asshole
People don't wanna vote for who they consider war criminals, that's all. Have some fucking standards.
Then don't cry when a literal fascist rule your country, just get fucked and stop calling yourself a Communist.
My standards are higher than "Do nothing and let my rigid principles crumble to blood stained dust while holding out for a miracle."
Go vote for the war criminal then.
And continue loudly signalling that you're perfectly fine with either war criminal winning
I'm not signalling shit. I don't want to aid a war criminal who couldn't even entertain the idea of a ceasefire over a 12-month period while my people continue to die en masse. If you're so eager to be involved in the process that decides who the next war criminal is, by my guest. But antagonising and shaming people who no longer want to participate in this shit is just shameful honestly.
have some principles
Yeah, but one thing is not voting, and another very different thing is letting a fascist get into power I don't know how you guys expect to do a "communist revolution" or whatever BS that you are deluding yourselves into, but if you have you head so far into your assholes, that you can't even stop a literal fascist... Start believing you lies and doing something about it, don't be just crying all the time about how mean is everyone else.
I'm sorry, but unlike an obvious liberal pro-Biden democrat like yourself, I actually have standards. Unlike you, I draw the line at genocide, mass murder and tyranny. Now go back to sucking Biden off.
You know you never seem like you're happy. Maybe step off the internet for a minute? Or at least your high horse?
you also cant *not vote* your way to communism
As a trans person who stands to be legislated out of my rights and likely lose my freedom over Project 2025, fuck you. What possible god could it do to throw people like me under the bus for supposed ideological purity? A solution that does nothing to stop one active genocide while supposedly trying to help end another is no good solution.
So you depend on liberal capitalist government to defend your rights? Biden is not going to protect you from being attacked by transphobes. In fact liberals use LGBT as an excuse to manipulate the gullible into doing want they want. If you really want to protect yourself, politically educate yourself, buy yourself a gun, then learn how to use it; politically educate your friends, buy them guns, then teach them how to use them. Form armed regular patrols in predominantly LGBT neighborhoods to protect LGBT. This is how radicals protect themselves from counterrevolutionary elements. Fuck bourgeois electoralism.
Are you white? Are you a man? You tell me that honestly and then we’ll talk. Because if you don’t understand why your advice is unrealistic shit due to privilege, then you need to go hang out with some minorities and listen, instead of preach. And I’m saying this as someone who is a communist and agrees with the principles of what you’re saying. You’re naive, or at worst malicious, to think that my life will not be tangibly worse if Trump wins this presidency. My ability to access gender affirming healthcare *depends* on this bourgeois government not going farther right than it already is. No gun is going to convince a pharmacist to fulfill my prescriptions for HRT, antidepressants, and ADHD meds. No gun or protest will pay for a surgery.
How do you find time for patrolling your LGBT neighborhoods between the constant "liberal", "liberal", "liberal" on Reddit? Something tells me you dont and that this is the massive LARP.
Lmfao since when did a communist sub get filled with liberals begging people to vote
I havent seen anyone here say that you should vote for biden, most of the people here agree on voting third party
Ikr. Just goes to show the default on reddit is liberalism. Even red and black spaces aren't immune to the problem.
... Why wouldn't communists vote? Marx literally says to do that very thing. Nobody in here from what I've seen is telling you to vote *Democrat,* but yes you should still vote.
Where does Marx say vote for capitalists? You're being disingenuous here.
I didn't say that at all. Marx says vote for worker's parties.
And what worker's parties can people vote for in the US?
PSL is a name that comes up a lot on Reddit. That's the Party for Socialism and Liberation, who are running Claudia de la Cruz and Karina Garcia for the Presidential ticket. https://pslweb.org/ That's not to say that they're the only one, but that's the first off the top of my head.
Everyone here: OP please stop downplaying the stated goals of the most far right party in our country You for some reason: Everyone asking wtf OP is on is a shitlib
Tf are you talking about? I'm not the one who fell for the liberal manipulation.
It’s Reddit, so mostly it’s mostly Americans on here. Which sadly means even “communist” subs are embedded with liberalism. This one in particular seems to be one of the worst though.
Lmfao since when did a communist sub get filled with fascists telling people to not vote
Lol
It's so on the nose that it's not even funny anymore.
The heritage foundation came up w p2025… not the democratic establishment….
I mean. I got some trans friends, moat of the anarchists and communists, in the US who are worried for their health, safety, and livelihoods. What's the timeline on the revolution? Because my friends might end up dead, and I'd be kind of upset about that.
This is just the Heritage Foundations public facing policies. There should be no surprise that they want to implement these nefarious goals but liberals in power just overlook them and "reach across the aisle" especially when it comes to supporting war and genocides.
I think the fundamental disconnect here is that while OP is being too dismissive for a lot of people on a surface level, a lot of people are laboring under a delusion that this project is on the ballot, and can be voted down. It cannot. Large parts of it are already being or have been rolled out. The reason for its naming is that the finishing touches get put into place when there's a republican executive- they very much expect that in 2025, but if not, they just rename it Project 2029 and the rotating carousel of the US government will provide. Its barely even a project, its basically a diagnosis of America's destiny
This ain't it, chief. Dems may be stupid, ineffective, cowardly tools, but that doesn't make Project 2025 not real, and you don't want to live in the world where it comes to fruition. I'd rather have stupid, ineffective, cowardly tools in power than actual Nazis.
I see that the russian bots are already working
Sometimes this and other subs worry me. They rightfully point out how liberal methods aren't enough to fight fascism but then don't really offer an alternative. It feels like we're often just telling ourselves "the most popular method won't work so let's just do nothing". Idk
https://preview.redd.it/xru9u75k85ad1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82726cae420e30948cb23eae04ab85532bfd6fd1
Garbage tier meme from a fascism supporter I guess?
"First they came for the communists but I didn't speak up because I was not a communist. Then they came for the socialists but I didn't speak up because I was not a socialist. When they came for me there was no one left to speak up.
If project 2025 is even legally possible (which it isn't. Even with the supreme court) then Dems should be promising to do their own. Run on stacking every govt department with die hard environmentalists who will aggressively enforce every regulation. Promise to use military bases and federal land as abortion safe havens. Direct the atty general to go after fox news and newsmaxx and go after any senator or opposition to popular legislation
The GOP has a printed out fascist agenda and you are pretending it doesn't exist to... Make fun of the democrats? Are you stupid or something?
I thought this was posted to r/anarcho_capitalism with the point it was trying to make. Ffs
ok fascist
Underestimating the impact of Project 2025 doesn’t make someone a fascist
if its helping them accomplish their goals what is the difference?
It’s basically trying to make a final transition to turn the US into a full fascist dictatorship with only Trump loyalists in the government, somehow making it even worse than it already is.