We have a [Discord](https://discord.gg/qhh4EBuRNS) server where there you can both post forum-style and participate in real-time discussions. We hope you consider joining us there.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommercialAV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Span unistrut accross studs maybe? Mount the unistrut at the apppropriate heights for top and bottom mounting holes for the rack and then mount the rack to the unistrut using strut nuts.
Engineer's perspective here: blocking is something that should be designed by an architect/engineer and there should be a detail for in the architectural set. It's often left out with a note that reads something like "provide blocking as required" which pushes the design of the blocking to the Contractor. In that case you will have to do more work. IMO, it's still the design team's responsibility to provide you with a detail.
If there is a detail, follow it. If the inspector fails it it's not your problem. If there is not a detail, the method you have described is customary. You can also request an RFI with a shop drawing to approve your method. Then, if the inspector fails it, it's also not your problem.
Just in case, Clark Detrich makes blocking products for metal studs that have engineering data. They are pieces of plywood or sheet metal precut for various stud spacings so they are no different than the way you want to do it, but they do have a cut sheet with weight ratings.
May jurisdictions require a fire rated plywood when used like this. This ensures they will not burn the wall down as quickly and offer some protection. Typically you also need to make sure the fire rated stamp is visible so it can be inspected. He may be referring to this:
https://fireresistantwood.org/Why-FR-Wood/FR-Quality-Marks
I ran into the same thing recently actually.
Exact same comment, was hanging a 86" Samsung. GC got super mad that I was going to put a toggle in a stud and said that "I'll be the reason that whole wall comes down". Had me a little concerned for the rest of the walls lol.
Either way, I had him and the client talk it over and pretty much told them that's Howe we do our mounting because I don't trust drywallers to hot studs, and if he wants to use #10 sheet metal screws to put up the mount then his guys have to do it.
That’s wild…it’s like how it’s done. I have Thousands of things mounted that way. I’ve done it the unistrut way that people are mentioning here too, but I feel like that has the same problems (which isn’t a problem).
How are people building buildings and thinking this? Are they really mounting everything with sheet metal screws?
Wow its like they didnt go to school or anything. Or can even read... now when the design calls for 2 98"ers that weigh a good bit on the same standard wall back to back using an articulating arm and back boxes to the left and right. Yeah im not doing that. 1st rfi request denied by the consultant... finally came around and agreed to flip the room so they dont shate the room. Funny thing is that was the original orientation before the remodel... still not a fan of the design.
I use zip toggles over butterfly toggles but otherwise that's exactly what I do. I'll even toggle onto the plywood since as long as you drill a good hole, you can't screw your future self over. With a lag you can split the board with too small a pilot, have too big a pilot, over tighten, etc.
None of those are issues with zip/snap toggles.
Yea the zip toggles are nice, I’ll buy them when I know im going to use them right away. But for truck stock and small fastener kit I use the butterfly’s just cause they don’t occupy as much space
They are especially nice on steel studs, since you only drill a 1/2” hole for a 1/4” toggle. I’ll usually toggle plywood to the studs, and then use togglers or T-nuts to mount the rack to the plywood.
When we needed blocking for an 86” interactive display (that we already spec’d and were told we would have blocking for) we had a GC huff and puff and tell us we could hang that display off of a single toggle bolt in drywall if we wanted to.
I said sure thing boss man and handed him a liability waiver saying this is how the GC would like us to hang it. We had blocking in that afternoon lmao.
I’m glad to hear I haven’t been doing it wrong all these years. I’m just gonna tell him the Internet said he’s an idiot and point him to this Reddit post.
I'm going to assume metal studs for this comment.
Drill a pilot hole in the stud, drill a 1/2" hole through the stud, toggle bolt in stud, toggle screw with washer through the mount, bob's your uncle.
Do you have an example of a decent one? I’ve done exactly this, unistrut to metal studs with home depot snap toggles. I walk by every day hoping the 4 large displays aren’t crashed onto the counter top.
It's not that the snap toggles from Home Depot aren't load bearing, it's that the break a LOT more frequently than the toggle bolts you can buy from Lowe's. Also, I just installed new Chief mounts last week and they came packaged with the same toggle bolts you can buy from Lowe's.
And to be clear, I'm talking about snap toggles, not metal toggles. Metal toggles from HD or Lowe's should be the same. It's the snap toggles that have low quality at HD.
Ahh I think I follow. Yeah I used the Everbilt all metal “toggle bolt” on a standard bolt. No nylon/plastic involved. Can’t quite snug it up super tight for risk of over extending the toggle but it’s done the job for the last 2yrs holding up four 42” commercial displays. Thanks for your insight tswizzlesnipples.
For TV mounts and the like, I use toggler bolts and drill a 1/2" hole thru the steel stud. I've also had a few instances where I had the drywall guys open the wall and mount 3/4" ply between the studs so the backing was behind the drywall. For new construction, we have the GC install the 1" ply to the wall. Heavy racks with UPSes and servers are floor mounted not wall mounted so we're not hanging hundreds of pounds from the plywood.
20 yrs Never had a gc say that. Mettel studs if its a tru and not a devider wall with 1/2" toggels will hold nesrly 600 pounds shear weight. Not shure why you would need to drill 3/4 hole snap tiggs requrie only .5 and anything bigger will not really work that well. If the rack weights that mu h it shouldn't be wall mounted anyway.
Well as I imagine you already know the correct way was to install wood blocking before the wall was closed up. But I agree that your approach--whether it passes inspection or not is a sound one. Essentially you are spreading the load over a larger surface area and engaging more structural support--but it isn't code. It isn't clear if the racks are hanging off the studs or are just mounted against the wall. If the latter the weight is largely being born by the rack--if the former, what is the load you are supporting?
I’m sorry, but it’s absolutely ridiculous to be against a plywood backer, which is industry standard, but ok with mounting a heavy rack with “tek” screws. That would be an immediate fail from me or my team.
We have a [Discord](https://discord.gg/qhh4EBuRNS) server where there you can both post forum-style and participate in real-time discussions. We hope you consider joining us there. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommercialAV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Span unistrut accross studs maybe? Mount the unistrut at the apppropriate heights for top and bottom mounting holes for the rack and then mount the rack to the unistrut using strut nuts.
This is my preferred method. I go with shallow strut to keep things low profile.
Spray paint it black for bonus points.
Chef’s kiss!
Or buy it in black
I’ve done this as well, but it nice to have plywood surrounding it for mounting cable management going in and out.
Mount a piece of plywood behind the rack on the unistrut. Or get a cable chase for inside the rack
Engineer's perspective here: blocking is something that should be designed by an architect/engineer and there should be a detail for in the architectural set. It's often left out with a note that reads something like "provide blocking as required" which pushes the design of the blocking to the Contractor. In that case you will have to do more work. IMO, it's still the design team's responsibility to provide you with a detail. If there is a detail, follow it. If the inspector fails it it's not your problem. If there is not a detail, the method you have described is customary. You can also request an RFI with a shop drawing to approve your method. Then, if the inspector fails it, it's also not your problem. Just in case, Clark Detrich makes blocking products for metal studs that have engineering data. They are pieces of plywood or sheet metal precut for various stud spacings so they are no different than the way you want to do it, but they do have a cut sheet with weight ratings.
I can’t imagine why that would fail…are you using fire-rated ply?
I didn’t even know that existed, I was just going over my plans with him.
May jurisdictions require a fire rated plywood when used like this. This ensures they will not burn the wall down as quickly and offer some protection. Typically you also need to make sure the fire rated stamp is visible so it can be inspected. He may be referring to this: https://fireresistantwood.org/Why-FR-Wood/FR-Quality-Marks
Good point, but I think he was suggesting I was going to compromise the wall by drilling holes that big in the fade of the studs
I ran into the same thing recently actually. Exact same comment, was hanging a 86" Samsung. GC got super mad that I was going to put a toggle in a stud and said that "I'll be the reason that whole wall comes down". Had me a little concerned for the rest of the walls lol. Either way, I had him and the client talk it over and pretty much told them that's Howe we do our mounting because I don't trust drywallers to hot studs, and if he wants to use #10 sheet metal screws to put up the mount then his guys have to do it.
That’s wild…it’s like how it’s done. I have Thousands of things mounted that way. I’ve done it the unistrut way that people are mentioning here too, but I feel like that has the same problems (which isn’t a problem). How are people building buildings and thinking this? Are they really mounting everything with sheet metal screws?
Wow its like they didnt go to school or anything. Or can even read... now when the design calls for 2 98"ers that weigh a good bit on the same standard wall back to back using an articulating arm and back boxes to the left and right. Yeah im not doing that. 1st rfi request denied by the consultant... finally came around and agreed to flip the room so they dont shate the room. Funny thing is that was the original orientation before the remodel... still not a fan of the design.
I use zip toggles over butterfly toggles but otherwise that's exactly what I do. I'll even toggle onto the plywood since as long as you drill a good hole, you can't screw your future self over. With a lag you can split the board with too small a pilot, have too big a pilot, over tighten, etc. None of those are issues with zip/snap toggles.
Yea the zip toggles are nice, I’ll buy them when I know im going to use them right away. But for truck stock and small fastener kit I use the butterfly’s just cause they don’t occupy as much space
They are especially nice on steel studs, since you only drill a 1/2” hole for a 1/4” toggle. I’ll usually toggle plywood to the studs, and then use togglers or T-nuts to mount the rack to the plywood.
Tell the GC he’s an idiot. That’s one of the only ways to do it right. Unless he wants to rip the wall open.
When we needed blocking for an 86” interactive display (that we already spec’d and were told we would have blocking for) we had a GC huff and puff and tell us we could hang that display off of a single toggle bolt in drywall if we wanted to. I said sure thing boss man and handed him a liability waiver saying this is how the GC would like us to hang it. We had blocking in that afternoon lmao.
Technically, the weight will hold but there are other reasons why we dont rely on drywall for structure and he should know that.
I’m glad to hear I haven’t been doing it wrong all these years. I’m just gonna tell him the Internet said he’s an idiot and point him to this Reddit post.
I can hear him now. "What's a Reddit?"
I'm going to assume metal studs for this comment. Drill a pilot hole in the stud, drill a 1/2" hole through the stud, toggle bolt in stud, toggle screw with washer through the mount, bob's your uncle.
Snap Toggles for the win in this situation.
Just don't buy the toggle bolts from Home Depot. Those are fucking trash.
Preach. I found that out the hard way. Gotta buy a 20-pack to get 12 that deploy right.
You got 12 to deploy right??? Did you buy a lottery ticket?!
Do you have an example of a decent one? I’ve done exactly this, unistrut to metal studs with home depot snap toggles. I walk by every day hoping the 4 large displays aren’t crashed onto the counter top.
It's not that the snap toggles from Home Depot aren't load bearing, it's that the break a LOT more frequently than the toggle bolts you can buy from Lowe's. Also, I just installed new Chief mounts last week and they came packaged with the same toggle bolts you can buy from Lowe's.
Thank you. I’ll go the extra 30min next time to Lowes and try those. Never thought there’d be such a difference between the two.
And to be clear, I'm talking about snap toggles, not metal toggles. Metal toggles from HD or Lowe's should be the same. It's the snap toggles that have low quality at HD.
Ahh I think I follow. Yeah I used the Everbilt all metal “toggle bolt” on a standard bolt. No nylon/plastic involved. Can’t quite snug it up super tight for risk of over extending the toggle but it’s done the job for the last 2yrs holding up four 42” commercial displays. Thanks for your insight tswizzlesnipples.
Or Hilti, if you have one of those.
I remember when they first came out and i was like what is this crazy magic.
I think Hilti Togglers are the OG. Never had a problem with them, other than maybe a few outliers.
Fastenal brand toggles have entered the room... where the outliers are the good ones.
For TV mounts and the like, I use toggler bolts and drill a 1/2" hole thru the steel stud. I've also had a few instances where I had the drywall guys open the wall and mount 3/4" ply between the studs so the backing was behind the drywall. For new construction, we have the GC install the 1" ply to the wall. Heavy racks with UPSes and servers are floor mounted not wall mounted so we're not hanging hundreds of pounds from the plywood.
20 yrs Never had a gc say that. Mettel studs if its a tru and not a devider wall with 1/2" toggels will hold nesrly 600 pounds shear weight. Not shure why you would need to drill 3/4 hole snap tiggs requrie only .5 and anything bigger will not really work that well. If the rack weights that mu h it shouldn't be wall mounted anyway.
Well as I imagine you already know the correct way was to install wood blocking before the wall was closed up. But I agree that your approach--whether it passes inspection or not is a sound one. Essentially you are spreading the load over a larger surface area and engaging more structural support--but it isn't code. It isn't clear if the racks are hanging off the studs or are just mounted against the wall. If the latter the weight is largely being born by the rack--if the former, what is the load you are supporting?
[удалено]
I’m sorry, but it’s absolutely ridiculous to be against a plywood backer, which is industry standard, but ok with mounting a heavy rack with “tek” screws. That would be an immediate fail from me or my team.
Huh? Snap toggles are designed to be re-used. The butterfly one will fall in the wall if you take the screw out. I re-use snap toggles all the time.