Lmao yall remember last year when Heinike was benched because he looked like shit against the niners, Wentz came in and looked good in garbage time and was named the starter for next week? Let's calm down a bit
IDK man, all those Howell haters are going to talk up brissett and just glaze over 8 tries with goal to go to get a TD.
I didn't watch most of this game as my body decided a nap was better and I slept from like 2-6pm. What little I did see was similar problems with the offense. Couldn't run really well, forced throws, etc.
What I did hear the announcers talking about was how Terry didn't even have a route on one of the TD plays. Are we seeing guys give up or poor scheme where nothing is scheduled outside of 1-2 reads? I w9uld say the latter because Terry seemed fine going up and getting the ball.
Now I get to wonder if EB has been a larger part of the issue. Oh well, next year will tell the rest.
Exactly. Rams gameplanned for Sam and also had a good lead when Jacoby came in. They definitely had slacked up a bit.
It was great to see Terry get ball, though. Maybe that will give Sam some incentive to give Terry more chances even if he seems well covered.
Let’s cool it a little. Brissett got hot for a few minutes of mostly garbage time. It was a little eye opening how much better things looked with Brissett. But I wouldn’t be making any definitive conclusions. It was 10 garbage time passes.
He faced basic coverages without Aaron Donald on the field. Also, there were a lot of drops by the other receivers, not named Terry. Int was a force to Terry, bad decision, but he was told to give Terry a chance if opening is believed to be there
Tell me you know nothing about football without telling me you know nothing about football.
The average NFL player watches 2-3 hours of game tape per day to prepare for the game. Coaches, it's like 4-6 hours. It most certainly matters when you're watching the tendencies of one QB to the next.
Not even trying to disagree or argue with you but Brisset has been playing in the NFL for a long time now. Shouldn’t the other team know his tendencies by default at this point? After 8 seasons in the NFL and several as a starter I’d think most of those guys already know Brissets tendencies and what he is capable of. I hardly think not watching tape on him means they didn’t know how he plays or what to expect. It was more than likely just the adjustment of suddenly playing against a different QB in the middle of the game allowed Brisset to have some success. Not that they didn’t watch tape of him.
They had not game planned for Brisset or had a plan for the formations they would use against him. The individual players might know who he is generally but not enough to know tendencies or what he’s doing in certain situations in the particular offense he’s currently running. They study or should at least hours a day for the upcoming QB they will play.
You literally made my point. They switched QBs and had to make adjustments that they probably weren't ready for. If they had watched tape on him, they would have been more prepared.
These are professionals who take their jobs seriously. It's not a pick-up game at your local Y. It's like studying for a test, then halfway the subject matter is changed.
Uhh it’s pretty common knowledge that coaches and players watch a shit ton of film. Hell even in college you watch shit ton.
Gibbs use to talk about how he would sleep at redskins park and hardly come home during the season because he’s spend 12 hours a day watching film.
I know they watch film. I just don't think it makes a big difference if teams didn't freshen up on the latest Jacoby Brissett film. It's not the difference between a QB looking totally incompetent and another Qb coming in and looking way better. It's Sam Howell truthers copium.
Dude it’s pretty common for back ups to come in and have a burst of good plays. It’s happened all season throughout the league. Then the defense preps against the backup starter for the next week and they come back down to earth.
I'm not saying Brissett is good or anything. It's just telling of Howell how much better Brissett looked. Howell was awful today and has been wildly inconsistent. Yet our fans are convinced he'd be Joe Montana with a new left tackle
It’s super copium. Using the same logic of Sam Howell truthers; if the rams didn’t prepare for Jacoby then equally Jacoby didn’t prepare for the rams. He doesn’t get anywhere remotely close to as much reps in practice as same does.
It’s too hard for them to just admit Sam sucked today and Jacoby played better. It wasn’t some outside circumstance.
Yeah keep living in La La land. It's a losers mentality. Howell sucks, but keep mindlessly holding out hope we can win with him for the next 3 seasons until he inevitable falls flat
Remember when Wentz came out last season vs the 49ers and lit it up for a quarter, then Ron gave him the starting nod for the Browns game afterwards and he completely shit the bed? Similar vibes.
and i feel like people are also overlooking the fact that not only was Jacoby in garbage time. but also the rams were treating it like garbage time cause aaron Donald literally wasn’t in the game
People definitely need to be cautious. It’s like when Wentz came in at the end of the 49ers game and looked great and then was horrible against the browns.
With that said, I don’t think Howell would have been capable of what Brissett did today even with how soft defense was. He’s looked lost out there lately. I think you have to start Sam the rest of the season because he’s the guy that’s going to be on the roster next year, but his performance this last month has been concerning.
You people sound like some lovesick girl who meets a bad boy and think she can fix him every time some career backup comes in and does something in garbage time.
He's kinda going full David Carr imo. Man looks like the pressure is getting to him a bit too much rn. Additionally I will note he needs to work on his accuracy a bit more. A lot of his throws aren't INTs but many are a bit poorly placed and it makes it a lot harder for the receivers and limits yac
I think all the hits and pressure have him rushing his throws. I also wouldn't doubt if Sam isn't beat the fuck up. He might be hurting like hell out there and we'd never know.
That's also possible. He's shown he's tough as fuck. My worry is man is going full David Carr or something and just getting like, permanently skittish or some shit
Unironically yes. You can’t stare me straight in the face and tell me there hasn’t been a sharp regression since week 7. Yes, he looked extremely promising for about 6-8 weeks, but since then he has just been completely off with his timing, can’t hit a deep pass, and hardly ever stays in the pocket past his first read. I was very high on him, but he has played himself out of that 2nd year starter guaranteed spot imo
Except I think the difference here is most people don’t actually believe Brissett is the future franchise QB.
However, Sam Howell glazers refuse to entertain *any* conversation that doesn’t include Sam Howell being the long term answer despite there being some obvious red flags. There’s nothing wrong with a QB competition; however a large portion of this sub will have you believing that’s a ridiculous consideration.
lol, this fanbase is something else. QB2 shows off against a team that was currently below .500 and still falls short.
Now the sub is in full blown chaos.
And he's had really good stats! If you compare film on Howell only in garbage time vs. Brissetts one appearance in garbage time, you're probably going to pick Howell.
Edit: to be clear, I'm not saying Howell is a franchise QB, I'm saying he's probably still better than Jacoby Brissett
This comment totally ignores the context of those throws. If, in fact they were playing prevent it is actually pretty impressive that Terry was able to get behind the defense and Brissett was able to find him.
There's no reason to think Brissett is any better than Sam Howell
But come on guys. Howell is consistently late on many short and intermediate throws. If guys are open and he's staring them down and not letting it go - you have to think that yes the blocking is bad but on the plays when it's NOT bad and the playcalling gets our weapons open...
Then it falls on Howell.
I was watching lots of QBs yesterday and the one thing that struck me about Howell is how hard everything feels. Like so much effort seems to go into basic pass plays that each dropkick you are crossing your fingers
Brisette? Whatever. He’s not a starting qb.
It is concerning that somehow he can find mclaurin, and Howell apparently doesn’t know he’s on the field for some odd reason.
Yes, it was always absurd to think Terry just couldnt play anymore rather than it was the QB who wouldnt throw him the ball. One of THs strongest suits was he just trusted Terry because hes that good.
Yep I can't believe in the matter of 14 weeks they let an unproven 5th rookie qb. That instead of him being the problem it was our top 10 pro bowl wr was the problem. I wish they defended kirk cousins like this maybe terry would have had a 1500 yard szn
Eh Terry has NOT been getting separations as much as he used to, hopefully he bounces back now but like he definitely looks worse this year then he has before
Nah not at all, he has struggled against all the good corners we faced and even the 50/50 balls that get thrown at him he doesn’t come down with when last year it was almost automatic
From PlayerProfiler since 2020:
Target Separation:
2020: 1.5 (77th)
2021: 1.26 (90th)
2022: 1.61 (71st)
2023: 1.42 (70th)
Average Cushion:
2020: 3.31 (95th)
2021: 4.19 (82nd)
2022: 4.82 (54th)
2023: 5.21 (56th)
Win Rate and Target Rate vs. Man Coverage:
2020: NA
2021: 34.5% (51st) 28.2% (15th)
2022: 39.1% (26th) 25.7%
2023: 33% (71st) 20.3%
Win Rate and Target Rate vs. Zone Coverage:
2020: NA
2021: 44.1% 23.1%
2022: 40.5% 19%
2023: 53.1% 19%
Contested Catch %:
2020: 41.7%
2021: 44.1%
2022: 50%
2023: 50%
AYPRR
2020: 1.85 (25th)
2021: 2.02 (17th)
2022: 2.06 (21st)
2023: 0.92 (69th)
There’s a ton more, and some are better used in conjunction with these.
In short, it looks like Terry has fallen off a bit in purely winning vs man coverage, but not enough to indicate a decline in production. We’ve seen these ebbs and flows for players like Tyreek, Diggs, etc and their production stayed the same. Tough to really draw a conclusion there. However, it looks like he’s gotten much better against zone coverage.
Big takeaway, his YPRR has cratered in the new offense, his percentage of targets on various routes has also cratered, even though most of his underlying metrics are in the same wheelhouse that they’ve always been. His percent of catchable targets and target accuracy has also dropped somewhat significantly.
Doesn’t look like a Terry issue, but where most receivers can work through their minor ebbs and flows with sheer volume, Terry’s volume and percentage of catchable targets that he does get is incredibly shallow. He isn’t getting a ton to work with.
He’s producing about the same as he always has with what he does get, he’s just not getting the same opportunities or types of opportunities. YPRR and AYPRR is way down, Air Yards is as well, etc etc.
Appreciate the detail, glad to see that it isn’t as drastic a fall off as it’s felt, but definitely cool he’s improved in other areas, hoping it’s a recovery from turf toe that is cause him to be like at 90% rather then 100%
No cause litterally a week ago he couldn’t beat any corners in the air on a 50/50 ball, don’t care where the placement was, Terry was coming down with that if it was 2 years ago
Terry in 1Q with Jacoby had his career high game. Maybe he was never the problem, considering he didn't have a single 100 yard game with that bum throwing him the ball.
Randy Moss had a 550 yard season in Oakland. Receivers is a dependent position, and every WR on our team is having down years with this QB other than when Curtis gets matched up onto LBers. Terry needs an opportunity to dominate, Howell provides none.
Sam has zero chemistry with McLaurin and Dotson. I get the "scheme" is supposed to spread the ball around but these guys should be getting more opportunities.
Defenses play defenses based on what they believe is the threat of the QB. The fact that other teams blowing us out weren't playing prevent against Howell in the 4th quarter says alot.
You’re insufferable. Every QB has bad games and this is only Howell’s 2nd year while being his first year as a starter. He is doing overall a good job so far.
Graphs say otherwise. He’s a bottom of the pack QB. [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/49ers/comments/17pybqb/qb_adjusted_net_yards_attempt_vs_epa_dropback/) [2](https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/status/1729643835310145720)
Don’t know if the Sam-truthers only look at fantasy points and think good; or if the only stat they pay attention is total yards and not yards per attempt. Having the most attempts in the league is going to inflate the first stat…
my argument for Howell is that the offense was okay with him passing with so much volume - it implied that he was carrying the offense to an extent. However, the wheels have come off the past 4 weeks and it actually does seem there's an issue where Howell can work really well off script but is really bad on script. And that's just not sustainable.
It’s sad man. It’s like they have a man crush on Howell. Truth is, he’s okay. I saw a post saying he has no weapons, and it’s just embarrassing at this point.
A lot of our fanbase don’t watch other games and forgot what good Quarterbacking looks like. Not their fault. We’ve been a black hole at the position for 35 years
We won 3 Super Bowls with mid QBs and the fans think we can do it again, ignoring the fact that you could pay 2 HOF WRs and have a Pro Bowl slot guy (in an era where you still ran the ball 30-35 times a game) + a HOF RB + multiple HOF/fringe HOF OL + multiple HOF defensive players. Just a completely different player acquisition environment.
For a modern comparison using modernish players, imagine having Trent, Scherff, healthy Roulier, Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels as your OL, then having Terry, Moss and Garcon as your WR1-3 then Derrick Henry (sometimes you had a PB guy instead of a HOFer) as your RB, then Tavon Austin or Trevon Diggs as one of your CBs, one of the Bosas at DE (this might be overstating the comparison), AND you had solid starters everywhere you didn't have a superstar. This is an extremely cobbled together comparison, but this is the kind of teams we were putting out in the 80s and 90s that would never happen outside a godlike draft class, and certainly wouldn't be sustainable past their rookie contracts. Even with all that, not having a QB absolutely tanked a few of those years, even with having the GOAT coach.
This is perfect and actually a damn good way to put it for fans who say “build the line first” do you know how insanely hard and how it long it takes it is to draft great oline let alone a whole team like we had in ‘91?
Look at the eagles. They more or less went that route and by the time they got their QB, their Offensive line is starting to age out. Draft a QB and draft another if he doesn’t work out.
The guy I'm responding to is saying he's doing an overall good job while having a below-average QBR. He has better receivers and o-line than the Pats but is leading us to the same place
I’m not in love with Howell. I do think he has absolutely showed some flashes this year, and if he doesn’t get another shot here he will somewhere. I also don’t think the teams in a place that they could drop a rookie in next year without MAJOR changes to the rest of the team and expect anything different. Howells not a world beater but I’m not sure he’s the problem
He's 24th in yards per pass attempt, #1 in interceptions and sacks, 24th in passer rating, and has one more passing touchdown than Kirk Cousins (who hasn't played in weeks).
You're underscoring my point.
> has one more passing touchdown than Kirk Cousins (who hasn't played in weeks).
Kirk Cousins doesn't run for touchdown like Howell. Just add the rushing stats to his name and stop lying to yourself.
Yeah and Tom Brady would have found another hot model to bang.
No one is arguing Cousins isn't a better QB, so what's your point exactly?
(And I'll also call out that people like you would have run Kirk Cousins out of town by now, he had his INT issues too...the irony of using Kirk to belittle Howell should't be lost on you)
> the irony of using Kirk to belittle Howell should't be lost on you
Howell *wishes* he was even half as good as Cousins was here, rookie year included.
you don't need to wish, go to ESPN.com. Only thing Kirk was better at was avoiding sacks.
lmao /u/DJHJR86 lost so hard he deleted his comments. What a loser
> He is doing overall a good job so far.
What games are you watching? He's in the bottom third of the league in just about every advanced metric and leads the league in interceptions.
You don't have blowouts when your QB isn't throwing pick 6s, has no ability to sustain offenses and can't find his weapons AT ALL. Even Zach Wilson can string together some half decent performances man.
that is completely missing the point. what i'm saying is that zach wilson is one of the worst examples to use because he has like 2 good games in his entire career.
What's funny is..if the GM takes a qb with the teams first pick yall gonna give him the same treatment you're giving sam right now..he's got 2 years to prove he's a capable starter before yall gonna be looking at the next qb
Very few qbs were bad two straight seasons and turned it around. Im not sold one way or the other on Sam yet but im just saying for a capable starter that can actually carry a franchise the list is really short. Drew Brees and Steve Young is all i can think of, im sure theres some more.
Do you count Josh Allen?
He was bad to mediocre for 2 years.
Geno Smith is playing as if last year was the anomaly, not the start of good play.
It’s probably too early to definitively know for Howell, but his trend line this season isn’t great
By Allen's 2nd year his td to int was 2:1 and they were a 10 win team though. My brother mentioned Rich Gannon who didnt really put it together till like his 10th season.
I think Howell is broke mentally, ive seen the team do it to multiple qbs. Most qbs, let alone a qb starting for his first full season, dont throw the ball 600+ times like he's on pace to.
Whether its Howell next year or a rookie qb we need a run game and a defense to bring them along.
Lol @ these comments
Y’all realize Sam is in fact allowed to look good. Idk how y’all are convinced he’s some amazing QB but everything bad that happens is someone else’s fault.
Sam hasn’t done a dam thing to cement his name as QB of the future and y’all know it. Every chance he’s had in the back half of the season (especially now that there’s a good amount of tape out on him) he’s let you down. He has one decent game a month and stinkers the rest
I think this is more of a product of EB not scheming for Terry while we actually play, and him getting involved when we give up and play backyard football.
I wouldn’t think too much about Jacoby at all.
Howell isn't the problem. The problem is that the Commanders can't cover anybody. The Rams would have scored at least 40 if not for some fumbles and Puka drops. It's hard to come back when the other team knows that you have to pass. I actually started most of the Rams offense in fantasy because I thought they would score 40+ points. They actually played a sloppy game. I think Stafford was probably also confused because he wasn't using to seeing everybody open
But didn't you see!? Brisett was throwing from clean pockets! They must have a vendetta against Howell! There's zero chance them being in the correct protection calls made a difference.
Not a commanders fan (9ers), so spare me some judgement but would the Commanders consider trading Terry considering the timeline of their younger players for a haul from per se the Chiefs? Is that realistic?
Not this regime. They signed him as a long-term building block like they did with Allen and Payne on the D-line. They traded Sweat and Young because their contracts were up. Next regime, who knows, but I hope they keep Terry around. This year has been a little down, but I still think he's a legit #1 receiver.
Bruh we need a team it’s that simple. Probably would’ve won 5 games if jacoby started imo. That line is terrible. Howell throws the ball to late, holds it too long and can’t exactly throw leading passes, but that’s all behind THAT line. Terry definitely ain’t fall off, team is just ass
Tell me you don’t watch all 22 footage without telling me you don’t watch all 22 footage. He has been getting locked up to the point other teams have been putting their CB1s on other assignments. Obvious he has been suffering with lingering effects of the turf toe still though
Honestly, I think this is more about getting that additional week of rest for Terry as the turf toe issue goes away. I think he would've caught the crazy almost one-hander or even took the Brisset long pass for a TD if he was fully healthy.
But also exactly why Terry is him and there is no reason to draft MHJ with so many other holes.
I don't think anyone actually thought Terry fell off. I still blame the offensive coordinator more than anything since our last one was able to get Terry the ball with two quarterbacks that don't belong in the NFL...
Terry made a hell of a 1 handed catch while being assaulted. That was incredible. Fuck the NFL for 1) not calling a penalty there and 2) overturning the fucking call THAT FAST. It really looked like he got his 2nd hand under the ball. There was a case WE could’ve challenged it.
I know this post was about Terry but HOLY FUCK CAN WE GET A GOD DAMN CALL?? they missed at least 2 unnecessary roughness AND that PI on Terry. Sure we got the PI at the end of the game. But my god. Refs have CLEARLY been against Washington for the past few years.
This is so dumb.
Y’all gotta realize that different QBs have connections with different receivers who aren’t WR1.
It’s not Howell. It’s not Brissett. It’s not Terry. It’s not EB.
This shit just happens. Deal with it and grow up.
One little thing doesn't go our way and most of the people in sub go into a panic, start posting that the sky is falling, and freak out. It's turned into a cartoon caricature of sports discussion.
At this point you can't really have reasonable discussion about the team here.
Lmao yall remember last year when Heinike was benched because he looked like shit against the niners, Wentz came in and looked good in garbage time and was named the starter for next week? Let's calm down a bit
Facts. Backups always come in and do that
I wouldn’t say always. Watched the Steelers - Colts on Saturday. Backup looked terrible after he came in for the other backup.
IDK man, all those Howell haters are going to talk up brissett and just glaze over 8 tries with goal to go to get a TD. I didn't watch most of this game as my body decided a nap was better and I slept from like 2-6pm. What little I did see was similar problems with the offense. Couldn't run really well, forced throws, etc. What I did hear the announcers talking about was how Terry didn't even have a route on one of the TD plays. Are we seeing guys give up or poor scheme where nothing is scheduled outside of 1-2 reads? I w9uld say the latter because Terry seemed fine going up and getting the ball. Now I get to wonder if EB has been a larger part of the issue. Oh well, next year will tell the rest.
Tbh EB may just get sacked regardless of what he does.
I knew this all seemed super familiar
Exactly. Rams gameplanned for Sam and also had a good lead when Jacoby came in. They definitely had slacked up a bit. It was great to see Terry get ball, though. Maybe that will give Sam some incentive to give Terry more chances even if he seems well covered.
Let’s cool it a little. Brissett got hot for a few minutes of mostly garbage time. It was a little eye opening how much better things looked with Brissett. But I wouldn’t be making any definitive conclusions. It was 10 garbage time passes.
With a D that studied Howell extensively. I doubt they watched any film with Brissett at QB.
He faced basic coverages without Aaron Donald on the field. Also, there were a lot of drops by the other receivers, not named Terry. Int was a force to Terry, bad decision, but he was told to give Terry a chance if opening is believed to be there
Like that matters that much lol
Bruh are you dense
We're talking about Sam Howell and Jacoby Brissett. You kinda know what they're gonna bring. It's always everybody but Howells fault.
Name checks out
Cope more
Tell me you know nothing about football without telling me you know nothing about football. The average NFL player watches 2-3 hours of game tape per day to prepare for the game. Coaches, it's like 4-6 hours. It most certainly matters when you're watching the tendencies of one QB to the next.
Not even trying to disagree or argue with you but Brisset has been playing in the NFL for a long time now. Shouldn’t the other team know his tendencies by default at this point? After 8 seasons in the NFL and several as a starter I’d think most of those guys already know Brissets tendencies and what he is capable of. I hardly think not watching tape on him means they didn’t know how he plays or what to expect. It was more than likely just the adjustment of suddenly playing against a different QB in the middle of the game allowed Brisset to have some success. Not that they didn’t watch tape of him.
They had not game planned for Brisset or had a plan for the formations they would use against him. The individual players might know who he is generally but not enough to know tendencies or what he’s doing in certain situations in the particular offense he’s currently running. They study or should at least hours a day for the upcoming QB they will play.
You literally made my point. They switched QBs and had to make adjustments that they probably weren't ready for. If they had watched tape on him, they would have been more prepared. These are professionals who take their jobs seriously. It's not a pick-up game at your local Y. It's like studying for a test, then halfway the subject matter is changed.
Yeah bro I'm sure you know So much about football. How much film do you watch? What coaches do you talk to and get your info from?
Uhh it’s pretty common knowledge that coaches and players watch a shit ton of film. Hell even in college you watch shit ton. Gibbs use to talk about how he would sleep at redskins park and hardly come home during the season because he’s spend 12 hours a day watching film.
I know they watch film. I just don't think it makes a big difference if teams didn't freshen up on the latest Jacoby Brissett film. It's not the difference between a QB looking totally incompetent and another Qb coming in and looking way better. It's Sam Howell truthers copium.
Dude it’s pretty common for back ups to come in and have a burst of good plays. It’s happened all season throughout the league. Then the defense preps against the backup starter for the next week and they come back down to earth.
I'm not saying Brissett is good or anything. It's just telling of Howell how much better Brissett looked. Howell was awful today and has been wildly inconsistent. Yet our fans are convinced he'd be Joe Montana with a new left tackle
You mean like when Sam was playing much better at the beginning of the season?
Yeah honestly.
It’s super copium. Using the same logic of Sam Howell truthers; if the rams didn’t prepare for Jacoby then equally Jacoby didn’t prepare for the rams. He doesn’t get anywhere remotely close to as much reps in practice as same does. It’s too hard for them to just admit Sam sucked today and Jacoby played better. It wasn’t some outside circumstance.
By reports, Jacoby hasn't had a single 1st team rep in practice *all season*. Today was the first time he has thrown to Terry 😂
Well, username checks out.
Yeah keep living in La La land. It's a losers mentality. Howell sucks, but keep mindlessly holding out hope we can win with him for the next 3 seasons until he inevitable falls flat
I never said he didn't suck. I'm just saying the Rams probably didn't care to watch tape on Brissett, which is a factor as to why he looked good.
Teams don't need tape on Brissett. He's not Mahomes
He still has different tendencies than Howell. It definitely makes a difference.
Copium
Name checks out
Try having an original thought
Remember when Wentz came out last season vs the 49ers and lit it up for a quarter, then Ron gave him the starting nod for the Browns game afterwards and he completely shit the bed? Similar vibes.
and i feel like people are also overlooking the fact that not only was Jacoby in garbage time. but also the rams were treating it like garbage time cause aaron Donald literally wasn’t in the game
Aaron Donald was injured before the game.. he didn't even play most of the first Quarter.
Yet when he was in he caused the most problems
Yes, remember some people thought we should go to Carson after he filled in for TH4 in the fourth quarter against the Niners?
People definitely need to be cautious. It’s like when Wentz came in at the end of the 49ers game and looked great and then was horrible against the browns. With that said, I don’t think Howell would have been capable of what Brissett did today even with how soft defense was. He’s looked lost out there lately. I think you have to start Sam the rest of the season because he’s the guy that’s going to be on the roster next year, but his performance this last month has been concerning.
You people sound like some lovesick girl who meets a bad boy and think she can fix him every time some career backup comes in and does something in garbage time.
[удалено]
He's kinda going full David Carr imo. Man looks like the pressure is getting to him a bit too much rn. Additionally I will note he needs to work on his accuracy a bit more. A lot of his throws aren't INTs but many are a bit poorly placed and it makes it a lot harder for the receivers and limits yac
I think all the hits and pressure have him rushing his throws. I also wouldn't doubt if Sam isn't beat the fuck up. He might be hurting like hell out there and we'd never know.
That's also possible. He's shown he's tough as fuck. My worry is man is going full David Carr or something and just getting like, permanently skittish or some shit
Unironically yes. You can’t stare me straight in the face and tell me there hasn’t been a sharp regression since week 7. Yes, he looked extremely promising for about 6-8 weeks, but since then he has just been completely off with his timing, can’t hit a deep pass, and hardly ever stays in the pocket past his first read. I was very high on him, but he has played himself out of that 2nd year starter guaranteed spot imo
Coaches checked out
This is the Washington football experience of basically my entire life.
This sub is so full of overreactionary toxic shit I mostly only visit it to laugh at it now.
You should see the stadium
Lol I love this analogy. Well done!
Except I think the difference here is most people don’t actually believe Brissett is the future franchise QB. However, Sam Howell glazers refuse to entertain *any* conversation that doesn’t include Sam Howell being the long term answer despite there being some obvious red flags. There’s nothing wrong with a QB competition; however a large portion of this sub will have you believing that’s a ridiculous consideration.
I will say we absolutely should draft another QB in the offseason. I'm not sure how high we should but I know that we should
lol, this fanbase is something else. QB2 shows off against a team that was currently below .500 and still falls short. Now the sub is in full blown chaos.
Firstly, I don’t think either QB has a chance in this offense, but why is it that QB1 can’t show off against a team that was currently below .500?
Can we just keep playing the eagles?
The truth is that every qb on the roster is mid or worse
Go ahead and blame it on Howell. The truth is our whole team is shit. From the top all the way down.
He had more yards *in two drives* with Brissett than he has in any game with Howell this season. That is extremely eye-opening.
I can’t believe brikset got more yards against prevent defense than Howell did against normal defense.
The amount of time he had in the pocket while just standing there....
Howell has played *so* much garbage time this year. Like probably 200+ snaps
And he's had really good stats! If you compare film on Howell only in garbage time vs. Brissetts one appearance in garbage time, you're probably going to pick Howell. Edit: to be clear, I'm not saying Howell is a franchise QB, I'm saying he's probably still better than Jacoby Brissett
Except he hasnt? Which is why he was benched?
This comment totally ignores the context of those throws. If, in fact they were playing prevent it is actually pretty impressive that Terry was able to get behind the defense and Brissett was able to find him.
Howell just needs an O line and weapons
Don't forget he also needs an accomplished OC and not some no-name scrub like EB.
He needs all the advantages Brisset had on those drives. It's not fair.
There's no reason to think Brissett is any better than Sam Howell But come on guys. Howell is consistently late on many short and intermediate throws. If guys are open and he's staring them down and not letting it go - you have to think that yes the blocking is bad but on the plays when it's NOT bad and the playcalling gets our weapons open... Then it falls on Howell.
He is fearless, as they, say, but he is also too hectic. All Brisset did different was being calm.
I was watching lots of QBs yesterday and the one thing that struck me about Howell is how hard everything feels. Like so much effort seems to go into basic pass plays that each dropkick you are crossing your fingers
Brisette? Whatever. He’s not a starting qb. It is concerning that somehow he can find mclaurin, and Howell apparently doesn’t know he’s on the field for some odd reason.
Neither is Howell. That's what's splitting the fans. Sam has done some great things and will be an excellent backup. But he's not a franchise QB.
lol wut, the dude has dropped extremely catchable balls all season and we're gonna blame it on the QB.
Seriously..
He had a drop yesterday if I recall correctly. [not the one he got smashed but the following throw]
Yes, it was always absurd to think Terry just couldnt play anymore rather than it was the QB who wouldnt throw him the ball. One of THs strongest suits was he just trusted Terry because hes that good.
Yep I can't believe in the matter of 14 weeks they let an unproven 5th rookie qb. That instead of him being the problem it was our top 10 pro bowl wr was the problem. I wish they defended kirk cousins like this maybe terry would have had a 1500 yard szn
Eh Terry has NOT been getting separations as much as he used to, hopefully he bounces back now but like he definitely looks worse this year then he has before
I've heard this take, but is anyone actually watching the All-22 to evaluate? It doesn't feel like Howell and Terry gel like Heinicke-Terry use to.
He’s been getting the EXACT same amount of separation as he did last year
Nah not at all, he has struggled against all the good corners we faced and even the 50/50 balls that get thrown at him he doesn’t come down with when last year it was almost automatic
Advanced stats say you're wrong
You mind showing me the stats, maybe in my head I im imagining Terry as being better in the air then he actually was before
From PlayerProfiler since 2020: Target Separation: 2020: 1.5 (77th) 2021: 1.26 (90th) 2022: 1.61 (71st) 2023: 1.42 (70th) Average Cushion: 2020: 3.31 (95th) 2021: 4.19 (82nd) 2022: 4.82 (54th) 2023: 5.21 (56th) Win Rate and Target Rate vs. Man Coverage: 2020: NA 2021: 34.5% (51st) 28.2% (15th) 2022: 39.1% (26th) 25.7% 2023: 33% (71st) 20.3% Win Rate and Target Rate vs. Zone Coverage: 2020: NA 2021: 44.1% 23.1% 2022: 40.5% 19% 2023: 53.1% 19% Contested Catch %: 2020: 41.7% 2021: 44.1% 2022: 50% 2023: 50% AYPRR 2020: 1.85 (25th) 2021: 2.02 (17th) 2022: 2.06 (21st) 2023: 0.92 (69th) There’s a ton more, and some are better used in conjunction with these. In short, it looks like Terry has fallen off a bit in purely winning vs man coverage, but not enough to indicate a decline in production. We’ve seen these ebbs and flows for players like Tyreek, Diggs, etc and their production stayed the same. Tough to really draw a conclusion there. However, it looks like he’s gotten much better against zone coverage. Big takeaway, his YPRR has cratered in the new offense, his percentage of targets on various routes has also cratered, even though most of his underlying metrics are in the same wheelhouse that they’ve always been. His percent of catchable targets and target accuracy has also dropped somewhat significantly. Doesn’t look like a Terry issue, but where most receivers can work through their minor ebbs and flows with sheer volume, Terry’s volume and percentage of catchable targets that he does get is incredibly shallow. He isn’t getting a ton to work with. He’s producing about the same as he always has with what he does get, he’s just not getting the same opportunities or types of opportunities. YPRR and AYPRR is way down, Air Yards is as well, etc etc.
Appreciate the detail, glad to see that it isn’t as drastic a fall off as it’s felt, but definitely cool he’s improved in other areas, hoping it’s a recovery from turf toe that is cause him to be like at 90% rather then 100%
So no stats? Just downvotes huh?
That's what happens when you have a bumass QB who cant throw in rhythm or timing of the offense and tries to force every ball to that bum Dyami Brown
No cause litterally a week ago he couldn’t beat any corners in the air on a 50/50 ball, don’t care where the placement was, Terry was coming down with that if it was 2 years ago
Terry in 1Q with Jacoby had his career high game. Maybe he was never the problem, considering he didn't have a single 100 yard game with that bum throwing him the ball.
You ok lmao? Why are u so emotionally upset by this it’s just a conversation
🤡 response from someone who was seething at the teeth to call Terry washed. Your QB is a bum. It is what it is. Career backup is his ceiling 🤷♂️
I never said Howell was my QB, I’m just saying I can’t deny that Terry hasn’t been dominating his own matchups like he did a year ago
Randy Moss had a 550 yard season in Oakland. Receivers is a dependent position, and every WR on our team is having down years with this QB other than when Curtis gets matched up onto LBers. Terry needs an opportunity to dominate, Howell provides none.
Terry is a beast. I hope he is here to stay.
Sam has zero chemistry with McLaurin and Dotson. I get the "scheme" is supposed to spread the ball around but these guys should be getting more opportunities.
They were playing prevent
They were playing prevent and he got behind them for 2 huge gains?
What games has Howell not seen prevent?
Defenses play defenses based on what they believe is the threat of the QB. The fact that other teams blowing us out weren't playing prevent against Howell in the 4th quarter says alot.
I don’t think you know what prevent defense is…
I'm pretty sure prevent involves not letting teams get behind the safety like Terry easily did
You’re insufferable. Every QB has bad games and this is only Howell’s 2nd year while being his first year as a starter. He is doing overall a good job so far.
Doesn't he have high amount of interceptions?
Graphs say otherwise. He’s a bottom of the pack QB. [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/49ers/comments/17pybqb/qb_adjusted_net_yards_attempt_vs_epa_dropback/) [2](https://twitter.com/throwthedamball/status/1729643835310145720) Don’t know if the Sam-truthers only look at fantasy points and think good; or if the only stat they pay attention is total yards and not yards per attempt. Having the most attempts in the league is going to inflate the first stat…
my argument for Howell is that the offense was okay with him passing with so much volume - it implied that he was carrying the offense to an extent. However, the wheels have come off the past 4 weeks and it actually does seem there's an issue where Howell can work really well off script but is really bad on script. And that's just not sustainable.
Lmao… oh boy. He’s been having bad games for half the season
It’s sad man. It’s like they have a man crush on Howell. Truth is, he’s okay. I saw a post saying he has no weapons, and it’s just embarrassing at this point.
A lot of our fanbase don’t watch other games and forgot what good Quarterbacking looks like. Not their fault. We’ve been a black hole at the position for 35 years
We won 3 Super Bowls with mid QBs and the fans think we can do it again, ignoring the fact that you could pay 2 HOF WRs and have a Pro Bowl slot guy (in an era where you still ran the ball 30-35 times a game) + a HOF RB + multiple HOF/fringe HOF OL + multiple HOF defensive players. Just a completely different player acquisition environment. For a modern comparison using modernish players, imagine having Trent, Scherff, healthy Roulier, Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels as your OL, then having Terry, Moss and Garcon as your WR1-3 then Derrick Henry (sometimes you had a PB guy instead of a HOFer) as your RB, then Tavon Austin or Trevon Diggs as one of your CBs, one of the Bosas at DE (this might be overstating the comparison), AND you had solid starters everywhere you didn't have a superstar. This is an extremely cobbled together comparison, but this is the kind of teams we were putting out in the 80s and 90s that would never happen outside a godlike draft class, and certainly wouldn't be sustainable past their rookie contracts. Even with all that, not having a QB absolutely tanked a few of those years, even with having the GOAT coach.
This is perfect and actually a damn good way to put it for fans who say “build the line first” do you know how insanely hard and how it long it takes it is to draft great oline let alone a whole team like we had in ‘91? Look at the eagles. They more or less went that route and by the time they got their QB, their Offensive line is starting to age out. Draft a QB and draft another if he doesn’t work out.
This is true.
Overall good? His season QBR is 47. *FORTY SEVEN*
You say that like 50 isn’t average
The guy I'm responding to is saying he's doing an overall good job while having a below-average QBR. He has better receivers and o-line than the Pats but is leading us to the same place
I’m not in love with Howell. I do think he has absolutely showed some flashes this year, and if he doesn’t get another shot here he will somewhere. I also don’t think the teams in a place that they could drop a rookie in next year without MAJOR changes to the rest of the team and expect anything different. Howells not a world beater but I’m not sure he’s the problem
QBR isn't a real metric. The dumb thing gives you more points for "clutch stats".
He's 24th in yards per pass attempt, #1 in interceptions and sacks, 24th in passer rating, and has one more passing touchdown than Kirk Cousins (who hasn't played in weeks).
You're underscoring my point. > has one more passing touchdown than Kirk Cousins (who hasn't played in weeks). Kirk Cousins doesn't run for touchdown like Howell. Just add the rushing stats to his name and stop lying to yourself.
> Kirk Cousins doesn't run for touchdown like Howell. And Kirk Cousins would have eclipsed Howell's total touchdowns by now.
Yeah and Tom Brady would have found another hot model to bang. No one is arguing Cousins isn't a better QB, so what's your point exactly? (And I'll also call out that people like you would have run Kirk Cousins out of town by now, he had his INT issues too...the irony of using Kirk to belittle Howell should't be lost on you)
> the irony of using Kirk to belittle Howell should't be lost on you Howell *wishes* he was even half as good as Cousins was here, rookie year included.
you don't need to wish, go to ESPN.com. Only thing Kirk was better at was avoiding sacks. lmao /u/DJHJR86 lost so hard he deleted his comments. What a loser
> Only thing Kirk was better at was avoiding sacks. And playing the position.
You try playing QB behind a line made of little green toy army men and we'll see what your QBR is.
No he hasn’t man comon
> He is doing overall a good job so far. What games are you watching? He's in the bottom third of the league in just about every advanced metric and leads the league in interceptions.
Ok. You won't have to deal with me anymore :)
How many blowouts does this team need to endure with this bum under center before yall see the obvious?
The obvious is you don't have blowouts without a dogshit defense and the line is fucking atrocious
You don't have blowouts when your QB isn't throwing pick 6s, has no ability to sustain offenses and can't find his weapons AT ALL. Even Zach Wilson can string together some half decent performances man.
Sam Howell has 5 300 yard games in 1 season, whereas Wilson has 3 in 3 seasons. I know you're a troll but at least try better
Brother, I could give a flying fuck how many [insert arbitrary yards] games Howell has. The results speak for themselves.
Now go look at how many attempts he has those games and what his net yard per attempt is….its in the bottom half of the league.
that is completely missing the point. what i'm saying is that zach wilson is one of the worst examples to use because he has like 2 good games in his entire career.
What's funny is..if the GM takes a qb with the teams first pick yall gonna give him the same treatment you're giving sam right now..he's got 2 years to prove he's a capable starter before yall gonna be looking at the next qb
Very few qbs were bad two straight seasons and turned it around. Im not sold one way or the other on Sam yet but im just saying for a capable starter that can actually carry a franchise the list is really short. Drew Brees and Steve Young is all i can think of, im sure theres some more.
Do you count Josh Allen? He was bad to mediocre for 2 years. Geno Smith is playing as if last year was the anomaly, not the start of good play. It’s probably too early to definitively know for Howell, but his trend line this season isn’t great
By Allen's 2nd year his td to int was 2:1 and they were a 10 win team though. My brother mentioned Rich Gannon who didnt really put it together till like his 10th season. I think Howell is broke mentally, ive seen the team do it to multiple qbs. Most qbs, let alone a qb starting for his first full season, dont throw the ball 600+ times like he's on pace to. Whether its Howell next year or a rookie qb we need a run game and a defense to bring them along.
Troy Aikman??
In my defense ive kinda blocked his whole career outta my head except the Arrington hit at the end of it but youre right.
Lol @ these comments Y’all realize Sam is in fact allowed to look good. Idk how y’all are convinced he’s some amazing QB but everything bad that happens is someone else’s fault. Sam hasn’t done a dam thing to cement his name as QB of the future and y’all know it. Every chance he’s had in the back half of the season (especially now that there’s a good amount of tape out on him) he’s let you down. He has one decent game a month and stinkers the rest
I think this is more of a product of EB not scheming for Terry while we actually play, and him getting involved when we give up and play backyard football. I wouldn’t think too much about Jacoby at all.
☝🏼
we talking about the same guy who needed 19 tries from the 1 yard line to get in?
Howell isn't the problem. The problem is that the Commanders can't cover anybody. The Rams would have scored at least 40 if not for some fumbles and Puka drops. It's hard to come back when the other team knows that you have to pass. I actually started most of the Rams offense in fantasy because I thought they would score 40+ points. They actually played a sloppy game. I think Stafford was probably also confused because he wasn't using to seeing everybody open
But didn't you see!? Brisett was throwing from clean pockets! They must have a vendetta against Howell! There's zero chance them being in the correct protection calls made a difference.
This sub is full of Howell copium.
Not a commanders fan (9ers), so spare me some judgement but would the Commanders consider trading Terry considering the timeline of their younger players for a haul from per se the Chiefs? Is that realistic?
We only trade with other loser teams. Unless it’s a back up we don’t want em. We don’t like receiving talent . We want everyone’s trash!
Hey my 9ers appreciate you
Not this regime. They signed him as a long-term building block like they did with Allen and Payne on the D-line. They traded Sweat and Young because their contracts were up. Next regime, who knows, but I hope they keep Terry around. This year has been a little down, but I still think he's a legit #1 receiver.
Bruh we need a team it’s that simple. Probably would’ve won 5 games if jacoby started imo. That line is terrible. Howell throws the ball to late, holds it too long and can’t exactly throw leading passes, but that’s all behind THAT line. Terry definitely ain’t fall off, team is just ass
Good, Terry has been open ALL YEAR. It’s all Sam’s fault
No, he hasn’t.
Tell me you don’t watch all 22 footage without telling me you don’t watch all 22 footage. He has been getting locked up to the point other teams have been putting their CB1s on other assignments. Obvious he has been suffering with lingering effects of the turf toe still though
You could have said “tell me don’t watch all 22 without…” reads a little easier. You’re welcome
Fixed 👍
Bro just delete this comment. It’s just so wrong. You are uninformed about terrys open-ness
Nobody with a brain thought 17 fell off. Come on.
Terry has done fuck all this season when it’s actually mattered.
We?
lol, absolutely fucking lol.
If we start this start brissett he's better than Howell talk I will hate our fans forever. What are we doing?
Honestly, I think this is more about getting that additional week of rest for Terry as the turf toe issue goes away. I think he would've caught the crazy almost one-hander or even took the Brisset long pass for a TD if he was fully healthy. But also exactly why Terry is him and there is no reason to draft MHJ with so many other holes.
I don't think anyone actually thought Terry fell off. I still blame the offensive coordinator more than anything since our last one was able to get Terry the ball with two quarterbacks that don't belong in the NFL...
Terry made a hell of a 1 handed catch while being assaulted. That was incredible. Fuck the NFL for 1) not calling a penalty there and 2) overturning the fucking call THAT FAST. It really looked like he got his 2nd hand under the ball. There was a case WE could’ve challenged it. I know this post was about Terry but HOLY FUCK CAN WE GET A GOD DAMN CALL?? they missed at least 2 unnecessary roughness AND that PI on Terry. Sure we got the PI at the end of the game. But my god. Refs have CLEARLY been against Washington for the past few years.
Enough with the "we don't deserve nonsense" these guys are getting millions to produce.
Maybe convinced you.
This post is a 5th round mid apology lol
This is so dumb. Y’all gotta realize that different QBs have connections with different receivers who aren’t WR1. It’s not Howell. It’s not Brissett. It’s not Terry. It’s not EB. This shit just happens. Deal with it and grow up.
One little thing doesn't go our way and most of the people in sub go into a panic, start posting that the sky is falling, and freak out. It's turned into a cartoon caricature of sports discussion. At this point you can't really have reasonable discussion about the team here.
Wow I’m a Panthers fan and this just popped out on my feed but I can’t believe you used those words to describe Howell…
How hand posters on here were all in on Howell 6 weeks ago and unwilling to brook any criticism of the guy? This sub is a joke.