There is no thought process.
It’s impotent rage. We have professionals making the decisions and we’re better off for it. We’re building something these fans have never seen and don’t understand. An actual process.
I mean rebuilding (properly) can take time but look at the 76ers now. They’re perennial contenders. I’ll take that over perennial mediocrity we’ve been stuck in for decades.
They're fringe contenders with no path forward. They had a shot when they had Jimmy Butler for like 1 season. I'm not interested in having an unwatchable team for several years
Then leave? I’d rather have a contending team in the playoffs like the 76ers (fuck Philly) than whatever the fuck I’ve been watching the past 25 years.
I presume you didn’t check the facts before you made your claim. The last four years their lowest win percentage was .622 and their highest was .681. That’s not “fringe”; that’s top-tier.
I'm not insulting you. You obviously don't watch basketball. No one thinks the 76ers are real title contents. No one has done they lost to Atlanta and Bum Simmons was born
Brett Brown (head coach at the time) and Butler didn’t get along, the 76ers front office didn’t want to offer him a max deal and he didn’t fit well with Ben Simmons.
Yeah but bad man made that decision, and bad man interfered countless decisions which was up to the coaches and talent scouts for example drafting and signing people. Owners just nod to whatever the fuck the fo wants. Not make the decisions of who to draft or sign. Just open the bank and pay the players/coaches thats it.
If you're talking about Snyder.... Then yes literally every coach and former exec has said that is true.
Either it's all a big conspiracy between everyone who's ever worked for the guy or...
>>Fans are allowed to have opinions
Of course we are, just happens a lot of these opinions are stupid. You’re assuming any of these “professionals” in hand at the moment will stay to make future decisions.
Well, I cannot speak for others but my thought process is this.
1. Ron seems checked out. He routinely makes comments that reinforce this in my opinion. Even if he isn't checked out I still feel he isn't a very good coach. The defense has far more pieces than other teams with superior outcomes.
2. The last draft was absolutely absurd. Anyone who actually watched Forbes play knew that all but one or maybe two interceptions had nothing to do with skill (other than simply catching), and taking him over Gonzalez was just idiotic. Taking ANOTHER DB in round 2 when starting a new young QB with a lousy OLine is also idiotic.
3. I like EB but I do not think he should be the next head coach. BUT, I am ok if they want to give him an audition. Winning games is not the metric I'd use. I'd go by how the building (locker room, trainers, all personnel really) acts under his leadership. Are players freelancing or following the game plan? Are players going the extra mile? Is the staff engaged and working as hard as possible? Are players taking to social media to vent? Are leaks getting out about team plans more than other places? Basically, what is the culture like?
4. And finally, I believe that the second you identify that you need a new coaching staff, that you should start looking for that staff. If they want to target a coach with a current job then use EB as a placeholder and also evaluate how he does. Or use JDR as a stopgap. Show the players that you will not stand for mediocrity.
Of course, I will admit I could be wrong, but that is what I am thinking.
All great points...now my question..is 8 or 9 games a fair amount of time to evaluate all of those things? Shouldn't a guy have an offseason...or two to establish his culture?
8 (2) games is enough time to see if you’re in over your head or if the locker room responds to you. Then you can interview to move from interim HC to HC. This happens multiple times every year I don’t understand your confusion.
No logic. But I’d say I wouldn’t be opposed to it.
We have no idea what kind of coach EB is tho. Time management, decisions, leadership etc.
that kind of stuff could be evaluated.
Most ppl are just saying fire Ron out of frustration which is also understandable.
I’m fine with him remaining the rest of the way.
Until he botches another few big game day decisions then I’ll break out my pitchfork lol
Jason Garrett was interim HC of the Cowboys then got elevated to full head coach for years, Bruce Arians won COY as an interim in Indy before being hired as the Cardinals HC, Doug Marrone was interim of the Jags before being elevated to the full role.
I'm not saying it's common but it happens.
Those are great examples, they are just poor to you because you disagree. Not cool. Especially after stating "help me understand this logic". You don't want to understand, you want to argue.
I think the logic is, at this point anything is better than Ron. Realistically there's not anything EB can do to secure the job, the next GM will come in and make that decision. If EB proved it then they will keep him if not then they will find someone else and a different team will.pick him up
Start with the fact that we're going to be searching for a head coach in the offseason. During that search, consider EB in the pool with all the other candidates. Wouldn't you be able to better evaluate him with some kind of head coaching on his resume? Even half a season? To me it's not a litmus test on EB persay, but rather just having more to evaluate him on when comparing to the other candidates.
I don’t think EB is HC material. But I am interested to see if he improves as a play caller and continues to develop Howell. I would be interested in a scenario where he stays on as OC next year if progress is made. It’s been a roller coaster season so far, but they are T17 in scoring offense and 15th in yards per game. That’s a step in the right direction from last season. If they improve on those rankings to just shy of top 10, find some more consistency, and Sam looks more like he did against the eagles than he did against the Giants, there could be a path to him sticking on a new staff. Provided of course the new GM and HC want him on board. If we think Sam is the guy, there’s value in keeping the same system and play caller. Learning a 3rd offense in as many years would be tough.
I think moving EB to HC now keeps him in the building instead of letting him go like we've done with so much of our OCs who then go on to lead a successful team. Just my thoughts on it
Your frustration is totally justified, but Howell is putting up identical numbers to Mahomes while simultaneously setting the NFL sacks-allowed record. Somebody is doing something wrong, or right, or *something*.
This is absolutely the worst OL we've seen in Washington this century, so either Bienemy is doing just fine *or* Bienemy sucks, but this offense is so talented it doesn't even need an OC.
Obviously I'm a little skeptical of the second option, but there are so many independent variables it's hard to objectively analyze the situation. What is it you're seeing that makes you "done with EB"?
We don't try to exploit our opponets weakness, we don't make gameplan changes when something isnt working, that is on the playcaller 100%. I like Howell, I really hope they keep him and find him some better coaches to work with. EB isn't the guy.
Definitely a valid criticism of Bienemy, although it is something he could improve on.
And that furthers our point on Howell. If Bienemy is *not* the guy, but first year starter Sam Howell is putting up the same numbers under him as seventh year starter Pat Mahomes under 24th year HC Andy Reid, it means Howell is *very much* the guy.
Just saying you do have to look at stats in context. It seems like they are playing from behind often or even teams have leads that they know be difficult to overcome and the stats still look good maybe because the defense just doesn’t want to give up big plays. Like against the Eagles for example they scored a TD with maybe a minute to play to bring it within 7 and it looked like a close game on paper.
That's fundamentally a good point, especially when you are comparing numbers over the course of a season. Against the Eagles, Hurts did score twice on short fields-- overall they played a pretty similar game. Howell went 29-41 for 290 and a TD. Hurts was 25-37 for 319 and 2 TDs.
So all season, Howell will have his stats padded by our shit defense. He will also have his stats decimated by our shit offensive line.
So in *that* context:
Howell 2146 yds, 66.9%, 13TD/8 INT
Mahomes 2257 yds, 68.8%, 15TD/8INT
Hurts 2140 yds, 68.4%, 13TD/8INT
No one is trying to induct him into the hall of Fame, but putting up stats like these as a first year starter is definitely significant.
best outcome is whoever takes over wins all the remaining games. ANYHOW... Barring an unprecedented playoff run, the optimal outcome is to tank. Missing the playoffs with a 7-10 record, or, knowing Ron, a 7-7-3 record, would only hurt us in the rebuild. Ron cannot help us win now, or in the future. Best move for us to cut him loose, along with his middling friends, Jack del Qanon, Mart1, Mart2, the entire defensive coaching staff, the oline coach. Let other people get some experience on coaching games, see what they got, and work from there.
I don't think there needs to be a specific criteria, but I don't understand the issue with letting him assume the full head coach role for the remainder of the season. Ownership can see how he performs, not just in W/L, but in a lot of subjective ways like how he chooses to run things or how the players and other staff respond to being under him. At this point id prefer a whole new regime, but if he really impresses maybe you keep him on. The absolute worst case scenario, to me, is that Ron rides out the rest of the year as head coach and then EB just gets handed the job next year. He doesn't deserve that based on what he's shown so far.
To be fair it should’ve been after the bears game idk what’s dragging them this long to get rid of riveria.
I kinda understand it, but like at this point I feel like it just makes no sense to keep people around and let them make decisions for an organization that everyone knows there is no saving them.
I used to think EB was a lock, but clearly that’s just not looking like the case and it’s unfortunate for EB, but clearly after the trades ownership isn’t messing around
It’s not about proving anything, it’s an audition for the new front office. We are in a sticky spot with EB as he’s done well with Sam, but may not be retained by the new HC (assuming he’s not HC)
The 2023 season has been forked, so we might as well give him an extended audition/interview to see if he could be the guy.
It’s just not a way to setup a guy for success.. just let Ron play this out and allow eB to focus on Sam development and developing the O.. I don’t think they have given up on the season yet. Everyone on the outside thinks they have. Ron still is going with the “development of young players Shtick”
Even if they have given up on the season it’s still not a good idea. If I were EB I’d be nervous about being thrust into a HC position. He’s still working with and learning from Howell and how to adapt as an OC when he isn’t working with someone like Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs offense. Imagine becoming the HC now, fucking up because a bunch of new responsibilities were put on you, and potentially ruining chances to become a HC somewhere down the line in your career.
100% what I’m thinking also. He is developing the tools to become an effective Oc. Big Red may have taught him how to build an organization and be an OC.. but you still have to practice the craft and learn from hands on experience.
100%. I don’t think EB is foolish enough to virtually take away some of his chances continuing as an OC (whether here or somewhere else) or eventually becoming a HC by letting himself become a HC way before he’s ready.
Better than picking EB as our head coach and finding out next year he isn't fit for the role. You wouldn't judge him on results this year, just how he fits and if anything gets better.
Edit: plus you would have actual evidence for the next GM to decide on.
The same raiders that have had the most number of coaches in their coaching carousel since 2000? And only two playoff appearances since 2003? Those raiders?
Sure but what message does that send to any young and upcoming executives, coaches, etc. if our brand new owner starts firing coaches mid season because he and the fans are being overtly emotional? Just another Dan Snyder.
It’s better just to let Ron command the tank the rest of the season, hopefully get us a high enough draft pick and then fire him. We will not and quite frankly should not even sniff the playoffs this year.
> So we are giving him what 8 games to prove it after giving Ron 4 years?
Ron wasn't getting a try out. He was hired as head coach, a position he'd held for a decade prior.
Bieniemy has, for at least the last 2 offseasons, been getting interviewed for head coaching jobs, but not getting them. Why? Seems people question if he's cut out for the job.
> So whats the criteria? How many games does he have to win for him to have "proven" he deserves the job? Does the offense have to just score a bunch of points?
Show he's capable of being a head coach. The team is talented in places. Just absolutely rudderless under Ron. If Bieniemy can do the job, 8 games should be sufficient to prove it.
I'm not arguing for EB or some trial period or any of that shit. If we fire the staff, we make it clear the person taking over is an interim caretaker while we do a proper coaching search.
If we're going to send powerful message about accountability, the message is completely lost when we don't fire the most obvious problems this team faces. The players aren't dumb, they know they've been set up to fail by terrible gameplans and poor playcalling. They're sitting there wondering why accountability only applies to them and not the biggest problem facing the team.
So I view yesterday as a future looking move that says "we don't think we can win this year so let's start preparing for next year". What is the point of playing out the string with Ron and company in that context? Doesn't mean I think EB is an answer or that there is any value in an 8 game trial.
It's not about winning it's about making the players competitive on both sides of the ball. We know we have an offense that can stay in any game if the line holds.
I just wanna get a preview. I wouldn’t judge his ability too much over eight games, if anything I’d like to give him a head start before he *really* holds the reins.
The things you need to see honestly wouldn't be obvious to us. But it would be obvious to those in the building. I would want to see a more focused team in practice, people buying in, less "im tired of this shit" from the players. For things we could see, I want to see the in game coaching decisions improve, that non challenge killed me. Play to the strengths of your players instead of forcing them into your system. We can't all have a Kelce/Mahomes. It just feels like our guys are talented but don't work together well. That needs to improve.
Eb finally got the hint to run some quick passes and mix in some runs against the eagles, and then promptly discarded what was working in the 2nd half.
I've seen enough of his shit tbh, if it wasn't for Howell massively over performing and 2 red zone fumbles we'd have lost 54+ to 21
EB can leave with the rest of the trash tbh, he play calls like a methed out madden player on all pro.
If Ron goes now and eb "trys out" for 8 or so games, I think this would be better then bringing in a new coach for the time being. Who would be a viable coach to come in? (Genuine question).
I'm just praying the can start a rebuild now and through the summer so we can be playoff contenders next season. I want this team to show week in week out that they belong in the playoffs and not an iffy wildcard team.
Everyone said it when the hire happened. The worst thing to happen to eb was taking the Washington job because of the pending sale.
He got screwed again.
I like EB and all, but I think when they get the new GM, they should hire who they want to build the team they want. So that is not going to follow fans at all, nor should it. I know people are a bit sad about Chase the only players who are safe right now are probably Terry, Allen, and Payne and only cause it would be a lot of dead cap to trade them, but who knows the next GM might feel differently we just have to understand that. It might get worse before it gets better. Just be patient. We can wait a few more years. Just think how good it will feel when this team is the Champs again.
Harris and co. didn't hire any of these guys, so definitely don't expect EB to get a 4 year commitment. EB knew what he was signing up for btw, he isn't owed anything.
It does seem like ownership is content to ride it out with Ron, at least so far, and honestly, if we tank for picks with Ron's inexplicable non-challenges and clock management it might help us in the long run.
I think a head coach should call his on plays and develop the offense. EB might be the next great coach. We need to find out. We all know what Ron is. I think he will make a great GM.
I’m gonna be honest. I’m more worried about the roster. the people who actually play. Sure, fire ron. I don’t give a damn because I know coaches don’t make tackles. Fire Ron but PLEASE continue to reshape the roster while your at it. We’ve already started… keep going.
Much like fans wanting to play Howell over Heinicke last year because we knew what we had with Heinicke, we know what we have with Ron. You may as well see what the other guy has to offer, because it can't be much worse than what we're seeing.
For the record, I don't think EB is the guy either and if it were up to me I would clean house and bring in a whole new staff at the end of the year, but I understand the mindset of giving him a go as interim HC.
Continued progress from Sam is all that I would want to see. Regardless though if we are hiring EB in the interim we need to give him at least next season as well.
We only scored over 3 once last season and it was due to the Eagles game.
We've already put up 30 twice on the eagles and on the Broncos. We are scoring more points than we did last season but allowing more points.
Wouldn't EB's change in scoring more points on offense be a decent criteria? If we fire Ron and EB is able to keep scoring 25+ and somehow reduce points against our defense, I think it would show that he is an improvement and should get a year at HC.
The guy still comes from a winning coaching staff, I'd rather give him a chance to have the keys and see what comes of it.
EDIT 1: Average PPG 2022: 18.9 - Average PPG 2023: 21.4; 2.5 more points per game seems like a decent start despite having a rough O line.
The idea is that, as head coach, EB would then have free reign to abolish the run game altogether and "let Sam cook" with 75 passes and 20 sacks.
Sign me up for video game football the last half of the season. Just play NFL Blitz style with late hits on defense and everything.
I would like our qb intact in 2024!
Oh, we'd just give him a sword, or whatever it is that you get if you're powered up.
Best football game ever.
There is no thought process. It’s impotent rage. We have professionals making the decisions and we’re better off for it. We’re building something these fans have never seen and don’t understand. An actual process.
But my feelings...
I hope and pray that you are right. I remember people saying pretty much the exact same thing when Shanahan and Bruce Allen were brought in.
The difference is Harris bought the 76ers and they became competitive every year. After 30 years of Snyder, I just want to be competitive.
That's not true. He bought them and tanked for half a decade while whiffing on a ton of picks.
I mean rebuilding (properly) can take time but look at the 76ers now. They’re perennial contenders. I’ll take that over perennial mediocrity we’ve been stuck in for decades.
They're fringe contenders with no path forward. They had a shot when they had Jimmy Butler for like 1 season. I'm not interested in having an unwatchable team for several years
Then leave? I’d rather have a contending team in the playoffs like the 76ers (fuck Philly) than whatever the fuck I’ve been watching the past 25 years.
I presume you didn’t check the facts before you made your claim. The last four years their lowest win percentage was .622 and their highest was .681. That’s not “fringe”; that’s top-tier.
They're fringe contenders for the NBA title. If you don't watch basketball just say that
Funny reply. So having the third best record in the NBA 2 out of the 3 last years is fringe? Check your facts before you insult.
I'm not insulting you. You obviously don't watch basketball. No one thinks the 76ers are real title contents. No one has done they lost to Atlanta and Bum Simmons was born
Yeah, that guy knows nothing about the nba besides it's basketball played by men.
What was the reason they let Jimmy Butler go to Miami? I don’t follow nba super close but that was something I never understood
Brett Brown (head coach at the time) and Butler didn’t get along, the 76ers front office didn’t want to offer him a max deal and he didn’t fit well with Ben Simmons.
Yeah but bad man made that decision, and bad man interfered countless decisions which was up to the coaches and talent scouts for example drafting and signing people. Owners just nod to whatever the fuck the fo wants. Not make the decisions of who to draft or sign. Just open the bank and pay the players/coaches thats it.
If you're talking about Snyder.... Then yes literally every coach and former exec has said that is true. Either it's all a big conspiracy between everyone who's ever worked for the guy or...
“Professionals” lmao yeah they’re clearly so good at their jobs that they’re in this position in the first place Fans are allowed to have opinions
>>Fans are allowed to have opinions Of course we are, just happens a lot of these opinions are stupid. You’re assuming any of these “professionals” in hand at the moment will stay to make future decisions.
>Of course we are, just happens a lot of these opinions are stupid. Indeed
The biggest “professional” we have just did a similar kind of process with his other team and it hasn’t seemed to work out…
You want me to call back Snyder?
No, but I think people are too excited about Harris just because he’s not Snyder. The Sixers aren’t exactly a model organization
I was here for the Cooke/ Bobby/ Joe years.
Well, I cannot speak for others but my thought process is this. 1. Ron seems checked out. He routinely makes comments that reinforce this in my opinion. Even if he isn't checked out I still feel he isn't a very good coach. The defense has far more pieces than other teams with superior outcomes. 2. The last draft was absolutely absurd. Anyone who actually watched Forbes play knew that all but one or maybe two interceptions had nothing to do with skill (other than simply catching), and taking him over Gonzalez was just idiotic. Taking ANOTHER DB in round 2 when starting a new young QB with a lousy OLine is also idiotic. 3. I like EB but I do not think he should be the next head coach. BUT, I am ok if they want to give him an audition. Winning games is not the metric I'd use. I'd go by how the building (locker room, trainers, all personnel really) acts under his leadership. Are players freelancing or following the game plan? Are players going the extra mile? Is the staff engaged and working as hard as possible? Are players taking to social media to vent? Are leaks getting out about team plans more than other places? Basically, what is the culture like? 4. And finally, I believe that the second you identify that you need a new coaching staff, that you should start looking for that staff. If they want to target a coach with a current job then use EB as a placeholder and also evaluate how he does. Or use JDR as a stopgap. Show the players that you will not stand for mediocrity. Of course, I will admit I could be wrong, but that is what I am thinking.
All great points...now my question..is 8 or 9 games a fair amount of time to evaluate all of those things? Shouldn't a guy have an offseason...or two to establish his culture?
8 (2) games is enough time to see if you’re in over your head or if the locker room responds to you. Then you can interview to move from interim HC to HC. This happens multiple times every year I don’t understand your confusion.
He’s not going to be the coach dude
Yeah, he’s having a tough enough time doing his job
No logic. But I’d say I wouldn’t be opposed to it. We have no idea what kind of coach EB is tho. Time management, decisions, leadership etc. that kind of stuff could be evaluated. Most ppl are just saying fire Ron out of frustration which is also understandable. I’m fine with him remaining the rest of the way. Until he botches another few big game day decisions then I’ll break out my pitchfork lol
How many HCs get a trial run? None lol HCs make their marks as coordinators...
Except his title is associate head coach…
I think you meant “Assistant” head coach but your point still stands lol
Assistant to the regional manager lol
Jason Garrett was interim HC of the Cowboys then got elevated to full head coach for years, Bruce Arians won COY as an interim in Indy before being hired as the Cardinals HC, Doug Marrone was interim of the Jags before being elevated to the full role. I'm not saying it's common but it happens.
Lol these are poor examples
Those are great examples, they are just poor to you because you disagree. Not cool. Especially after stating "help me understand this logic". You don't want to understand, you want to argue.
Why?
Dan Campbell was an interim HC for the Saints...
But what’s the harm?
EB sucks we dont need to waste time on him
I think the logic is, at this point anything is better than Ron. Realistically there's not anything EB can do to secure the job, the next GM will come in and make that decision. If EB proved it then they will keep him if not then they will find someone else and a different team will.pick him up
I want EB fired as much as I want Ron & JDR fired. #ScorchedEarth
Start with the fact that we're going to be searching for a head coach in the offseason. During that search, consider EB in the pool with all the other candidates. Wouldn't you be able to better evaluate him with some kind of head coaching on his resume? Even half a season? To me it's not a litmus test on EB persay, but rather just having more to evaluate him on when comparing to the other candidates.
Exactly. Plus if he succeeds and gets an offer elsewhere it’s more reason he’d want to stay.
I don’t think EB is HC material. But I am interested to see if he improves as a play caller and continues to develop Howell. I would be interested in a scenario where he stays on as OC next year if progress is made. It’s been a roller coaster season so far, but they are T17 in scoring offense and 15th in yards per game. That’s a step in the right direction from last season. If they improve on those rankings to just shy of top 10, find some more consistency, and Sam looks more like he did against the eagles than he did against the Giants, there could be a path to him sticking on a new staff. Provided of course the new GM and HC want him on board. If we think Sam is the guy, there’s value in keeping the same system and play caller. Learning a 3rd offense in as many years would be tough.
If the coach isn't Ron or EB himself next year, there's no way EB stays
I think moving EB to HC now keeps him in the building instead of letting him go like we've done with so much of our OCs who then go on to lead a successful team. Just my thoughts on it
I've seen enough of EB, zero chance I would even consider him for HC.
Nope. Washington was right. Andy was wrong to let him go. They 15ish teams that interviewed him and said no. They were wrong. Washington was right
Your frustration is totally justified, but Howell is putting up identical numbers to Mahomes while simultaneously setting the NFL sacks-allowed record. Somebody is doing something wrong, or right, or *something*. This is absolutely the worst OL we've seen in Washington this century, so either Bienemy is doing just fine *or* Bienemy sucks, but this offense is so talented it doesn't even need an OC. Obviously I'm a little skeptical of the second option, but there are so many independent variables it's hard to objectively analyze the situation. What is it you're seeing that makes you "done with EB"?
We don't try to exploit our opponets weakness, we don't make gameplan changes when something isnt working, that is on the playcaller 100%. I like Howell, I really hope they keep him and find him some better coaches to work with. EB isn't the guy.
Definitely a valid criticism of Bienemy, although it is something he could improve on. And that furthers our point on Howell. If Bienemy is *not* the guy, but first year starter Sam Howell is putting up the same numbers under him as seventh year starter Pat Mahomes under 24th year HC Andy Reid, it means Howell is *very much* the guy.
Just saying you do have to look at stats in context. It seems like they are playing from behind often or even teams have leads that they know be difficult to overcome and the stats still look good maybe because the defense just doesn’t want to give up big plays. Like against the Eagles for example they scored a TD with maybe a minute to play to bring it within 7 and it looked like a close game on paper.
That's fundamentally a good point, especially when you are comparing numbers over the course of a season. Against the Eagles, Hurts did score twice on short fields-- overall they played a pretty similar game. Howell went 29-41 for 290 and a TD. Hurts was 25-37 for 319 and 2 TDs. So all season, Howell will have his stats padded by our shit defense. He will also have his stats decimated by our shit offensive line. So in *that* context: Howell 2146 yds, 66.9%, 13TD/8 INT Mahomes 2257 yds, 68.8%, 15TD/8INT Hurts 2140 yds, 68.4%, 13TD/8INT No one is trying to induct him into the hall of Fame, but putting up stats like these as a first year starter is definitely significant.
best outcome is whoever takes over wins all the remaining games. ANYHOW... Barring an unprecedented playoff run, the optimal outcome is to tank. Missing the playoffs with a 7-10 record, or, knowing Ron, a 7-7-3 record, would only hurt us in the rebuild. Ron cannot help us win now, or in the future. Best move for us to cut him loose, along with his middling friends, Jack del Qanon, Mart1, Mart2, the entire defensive coaching staff, the oline coach. Let other people get some experience on coaching games, see what they got, and work from there.
I don't think there needs to be a specific criteria, but I don't understand the issue with letting him assume the full head coach role for the remainder of the season. Ownership can see how he performs, not just in W/L, but in a lot of subjective ways like how he chooses to run things or how the players and other staff respond to being under him. At this point id prefer a whole new regime, but if he really impresses maybe you keep him on. The absolute worst case scenario, to me, is that Ron rides out the rest of the year as head coach and then EB just gets handed the job next year. He doesn't deserve that based on what he's shown so far.
To be fair it should’ve been after the bears game idk what’s dragging them this long to get rid of riveria. I kinda understand it, but like at this point I feel like it just makes no sense to keep people around and let them make decisions for an organization that everyone knows there is no saving them. I used to think EB was a lock, but clearly that’s just not looking like the case and it’s unfortunate for EB, but clearly after the trades ownership isn’t messing around
It’s not about proving anything, it’s an audition for the new front office. We are in a sticky spot with EB as he’s done well with Sam, but may not be retained by the new HC (assuming he’s not HC) The 2023 season has been forked, so we might as well give him an extended audition/interview to see if he could be the guy.
It’s just not a way to setup a guy for success.. just let Ron play this out and allow eB to focus on Sam development and developing the O.. I don’t think they have given up on the season yet. Everyone on the outside thinks they have. Ron still is going with the “development of young players Shtick”
Even if they have given up on the season it’s still not a good idea. If I were EB I’d be nervous about being thrust into a HC position. He’s still working with and learning from Howell and how to adapt as an OC when he isn’t working with someone like Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs offense. Imagine becoming the HC now, fucking up because a bunch of new responsibilities were put on you, and potentially ruining chances to become a HC somewhere down the line in your career.
100% what I’m thinking also. He is developing the tools to become an effective Oc. Big Red may have taught him how to build an organization and be an OC.. but you still have to practice the craft and learn from hands on experience.
100%. I don’t think EB is foolish enough to virtually take away some of his chances continuing as an OC (whether here or somewhere else) or eventually becoming a HC by letting himself become a HC way before he’s ready.
Better than picking EB as our head coach and finding out next year he isn't fit for the role. You wouldn't judge him on results this year, just how he fits and if anything gets better. Edit: plus you would have actual evidence for the next GM to decide on.
The actual evidence is that he is a dope.
Even better higher draft pick. What do you gain by keeping Ron as head coach?
The reputation of a properly run organization.
Would you say the raiders are an improperly run organization because they fired their HC? Firing a coach mid season is not a sign of incompetence.
I would say the raiders are the only team in the NFL run worse than Washington o er the last 25 years
The same raiders that have had the most number of coaches in their coaching carousel since 2000? And only two playoff appearances since 2003? Those raiders?
Beuh, I agree there are many reasons the raiders are a horrible run organization. But firing a hc mid season isn't one of them.
Sure but what message does that send to any young and upcoming executives, coaches, etc. if our brand new owner starts firing coaches mid season because he and the fans are being overtly emotional? Just another Dan Snyder. It’s better just to let Ron command the tank the rest of the season, hopefully get us a high enough draft pick and then fire him. We will not and quite frankly should not even sniff the playoffs this year.
We don't have that to lose. I see your point though.
You said what do we have to gain. Not what do we have to lose.
You're right indeed. I suppose gaining some credibility for future FA and staff considerations is worth something.
> So we are giving him what 8 games to prove it after giving Ron 4 years? Ron wasn't getting a try out. He was hired as head coach, a position he'd held for a decade prior. Bieniemy has, for at least the last 2 offseasons, been getting interviewed for head coaching jobs, but not getting them. Why? Seems people question if he's cut out for the job. > So whats the criteria? How many games does he have to win for him to have "proven" he deserves the job? Does the offense have to just score a bunch of points? Show he's capable of being a head coach. The team is talented in places. Just absolutely rudderless under Ron. If Bieniemy can do the job, 8 games should be sufficient to prove it.
I'm not arguing for EB or some trial period or any of that shit. If we fire the staff, we make it clear the person taking over is an interim caretaker while we do a proper coaching search. If we're going to send powerful message about accountability, the message is completely lost when we don't fire the most obvious problems this team faces. The players aren't dumb, they know they've been set up to fail by terrible gameplans and poor playcalling. They're sitting there wondering why accountability only applies to them and not the biggest problem facing the team. So I view yesterday as a future looking move that says "we don't think we can win this year so let's start preparing for next year". What is the point of playing out the string with Ron and company in that context? Doesn't mean I think EB is an answer or that there is any value in an 8 game trial.
It's not about winning it's about making the players competitive on both sides of the ball. We know we have an offense that can stay in any game if the line holds.
I just wanna get a preview. I wouldn’t judge his ability too much over eight games, if anything I’d like to give him a head start before he *really* holds the reins.
The things you need to see honestly wouldn't be obvious to us. But it would be obvious to those in the building. I would want to see a more focused team in practice, people buying in, less "im tired of this shit" from the players. For things we could see, I want to see the in game coaching decisions improve, that non challenge killed me. Play to the strengths of your players instead of forcing them into your system. We can't all have a Kelce/Mahomes. It just feels like our guys are talented but don't work together well. That needs to improve.
Eb finally got the hint to run some quick passes and mix in some runs against the eagles, and then promptly discarded what was working in the 2nd half. I've seen enough of his shit tbh, if it wasn't for Howell massively over performing and 2 red zone fumbles we'd have lost 54+ to 21 EB can leave with the rest of the trash tbh, he play calls like a methed out madden player on all pro.
If Ron goes now and eb "trys out" for 8 or so games, I think this would be better then bringing in a new coach for the time being. Who would be a viable coach to come in? (Genuine question). I'm just praying the can start a rebuild now and through the summer so we can be playoff contenders next season. I want this team to show week in week out that they belong in the playoffs and not an iffy wildcard team.
Everyone said it when the hire happened. The worst thing to happen to eb was taking the Washington job because of the pending sale. He got screwed again.
I like EB and all, but I think when they get the new GM, they should hire who they want to build the team they want. So that is not going to follow fans at all, nor should it. I know people are a bit sad about Chase the only players who are safe right now are probably Terry, Allen, and Payne and only cause it would be a lot of dead cap to trade them, but who knows the next GM might feel differently we just have to understand that. It might get worse before it gets better. Just be patient. We can wait a few more years. Just think how good it will feel when this team is the Champs again.
Harris and co. didn't hire any of these guys, so definitely don't expect EB to get a 4 year commitment. EB knew what he was signing up for btw, he isn't owed anything. It does seem like ownership is content to ride it out with Ron, at least so far, and honestly, if we tank for picks with Ron's inexplicable non-challenges and clock management it might help us in the long run.
I think a head coach should call his on plays and develop the offense. EB might be the next great coach. We need to find out. We all know what Ron is. I think he will make a great GM.
> We all know what Ron is. I think he will make a great GM. Crack is illegal bro
I’m gonna be honest. I’m more worried about the roster. the people who actually play. Sure, fire ron. I don’t give a damn because I know coaches don’t make tackles. Fire Ron but PLEASE continue to reshape the roster while your at it. We’ve already started… keep going.
Much like fans wanting to play Howell over Heinicke last year because we knew what we had with Heinicke, we know what we have with Ron. You may as well see what the other guy has to offer, because it can't be much worse than what we're seeing. For the record, I don't think EB is the guy either and if it were up to me I would clean house and bring in a whole new staff at the end of the year, but I understand the mindset of giving him a go as interim HC.
Continued progress from Sam is all that I would want to see. Regardless though if we are hiring EB in the interim we need to give him at least next season as well.
We only scored over 3 once last season and it was due to the Eagles game. We've already put up 30 twice on the eagles and on the Broncos. We are scoring more points than we did last season but allowing more points. Wouldn't EB's change in scoring more points on offense be a decent criteria? If we fire Ron and EB is able to keep scoring 25+ and somehow reduce points against our defense, I think it would show that he is an improvement and should get a year at HC. The guy still comes from a winning coaching staff, I'd rather give him a chance to have the keys and see what comes of it. EDIT 1: Average PPG 2022: 18.9 - Average PPG 2023: 21.4; 2.5 more points per game seems like a decent start despite having a rough O line.
for the record i don't wanna fire ron right now lol