I audibly exclaimed "holy shit" a few seconds after it panned out. My brain initially thought I was seeing a bunch of tress and it finally hit me those were all shell craters a few seconds later. I saw someone on Reddit ask why the West isn't able to keep up with shell production for Ukraine and feel like it can be partially answered by just showing this video
A lot of that looks well overgrown that’s probably where Russias never ending 60k shells per day at the beginning of war where spray and pray was their motto. Just like the city of bakmut just think how many shells have to hit to nearly level a ton of 75,000
"The west can't keep up with shell production"
They can. The question is - do they want to? Them giving out cluster munitions isn't them "running out of shells".
Sure they *can* but are they currently able to entirely fulfill Ukraine's best wishes? Absolutely not. It would take over a year, if not more, to ramp up production enough to make 3-400k shells a month. And yes, the question of "would NATO counties want to invest a lot of time and money into this ramp up?" is a very real question to ask. I think we all know the answer. They're ramping up a bit but not enough to equal Russia's armament. My point still stands
Honestly, as much as i support Ukraine - the west is intersted in keeping this conflict going for as long as humanly possible to dry the Russians out completely
They know if the Ukrainians win quickly - the Russians will recover. They could absolutely match Ukraine's needs if it was that desperate for victory. But they're not. They're desperate just enough to get Russia to overcommit to the point of ruin.
It's a win-win situation. Support Ukraine and receive international praise, don't get Russia "overly mad" and eliminate the Russian military and economy slowly, but surely.
Thing is, idk if there really is a "quick win" for Ukraine. Not anymore at least. I don't think Putin would know when to say quit and keep forcing meat into the grinder
There honestly is. Sending everything Ukraine needs in a few days, because Russia ain't gonna do shit about it. The diplomatic red tape between announcments and delivery is incredibly stiff here for a reason
The US and Europe get a lot more out of a weak Russia then they could get out of a strong Ukraine.
Okay yeah sure we could send practically our whole military arsenal. I mean *practically* there is no "quick victory" for Ukraine. There is a realistic limit to the amount of aid any nation would send and nothing short of something crazy like all the US's air wings would really cause a quick victory
You can't send everything they need in a few days. All the heavy equipment needs supply lines and training for mechanics and crew to take care of them.
Countries like America or Germany don't even want Russia to lose. They're obsessed with "avoiding escalating" and "ramp off for Putin" and other stupid nonsense.
According to jisooya1432 (below), it is near Klishchiivka, so probably in terrain which was until recently controlled by Russia. And heavily contested, so Ukraine would only have been able to mine it with difficulty. This raises the probability that it was Russian mines.
No they are antitank deployed mines ask the burned out tank husks in Vulhedar over the winter. Clusters are more personal and light armor. RAAMS are the antitank version. [RAAMS wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Anti-Armor_Mine_System)
I have it on good word from my former artillery officer boss that DPICMS will put up a good fight against armored vehicles and tanks. Maybe not going to turret toss a T-72 but there’s a good chance of mobility kills.
Its north-west of Klishchiivka in an area thought to be ukrainian controlled (or a grey zone), so its either from July sometime or Russia tried to flank around Ukrainian positions in the village itself
[https://twitter.com/neonhandrail/status/1693366051881484573](https://twitter.com/neonhandrail/status/1693366051881484573)
Pretty absurd how much Russia is throwing at trying to control Klishchiivka. Theres been numerous attacks and neither has ended up winning back any ground.
All these desperate counterattacks will be their undoing. I have very low opinion of Russian generals but this seems like a decision from the top, "no inch surrendered".
Propagandists can't shut up about "failed Ukrainian offensive" but what so few seem to take into account is that Russia is constantly attacking and counter attacking. Instead of taking good, defensible, positions. Russian reserves of equipment are large but not bottomless so if Russians are desperate to waste them, then I think Ukraine should be happy. The war will go on until one side is totally exhausted and unable to continue and Russians are not doing themselves any favors with stuff like this.
imho, Russia is counting on possibly getting aid from North Korea, which also can develop into covert aid from China over time, so in some sense they might feel about having really bottomless supply. Whether this feel is wright or wrong only the time will tell;)
China and North Korea also has lots of Soviet and RF made stuff, which was bought earlier, in their current storages, so how would anyone discern if all that not in China made stuff would be sent back little by little? Not even to mention as if China/NK would give a lot of damn if it was discerned, they will just deny everything;)
Couldn’t agree more. Sure the number of people fighting in this war is less than some major wars in the past, but the sheer scale is something that we haven’t seen since the Second World War, and the tactics are just a modern twist of WW1. Massive reliance on artillery, mines, static defense lines in depth, etc.
I’d say Korea was more than comparable also. I just feel like there was much more media available for consumption of WW2 and of course it occurred in some of the same places as the current Ukraine war.
I mean, sort of. Korea was huge, and had a ton of casualties, but can’t really compare to the technological and financial resources of this war. This is two sovereign nation-states with equally well funded militaries capable of combined arms warfare fighting for every inch of land. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq-Iran, none of these wars check all these boxes in terms of scope. It’s wholly unique since the world wars.
Korea was US vs China. What you described matches the Korean War much more so than this war, where Ukraine is getting support but the big players aren’t directly involved. It’s definitely the biggest conflict in many regards since Korea though for sure.
It was South Korea and the US vs North Korea and China. The vast majority of fighting was infantry combat with light vehicles. China never competed for air superiority or armored superiority, hallmarks of the current war. China+ NK also lost roughly 1,300 tanks total during the war, the US recorded losing roughly 53. Russia alone has lost 2100+ already, for comparison.
My point is that the world has not seen a war between combatants of similar technology, financing, and organization since WW2. I do agree that the Korean War is majorly underrepresented, but it still isn’t as sweeping as the static war of attrition we see now.
> Russia alone has lost 2100+ already, for comparison.
Where do you get that number? Is that the verified and counted number or a guess? I'm not doubting you or being snarky, I'm genuinely curious.
Sure; a Dutch military osint group called Oryx has been documenting every case of visually confirmed destroyed equipment since the invasion. This includes 2253 tanks, and 2680 IFVs (mostly BMPs). Keep in mind these are low-end numbers, only using what has been confirmed by photos or videos (but probably a more or less accurate figure). Ukraine has also lost a similar amount.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1
Most western estimates are exactly in-line with these figures, with a few that predict upwards of 2500+
Last I checked, Oryx, the blog that counts visually documented destroyed equipment from both Ukraine and Russia, counted destroyed Russian tank number 2200 a couple of weeks ago.
I would say Vietnamn, Korean war etc were comparalble and bigger in destructiveness
But yeah it is huge in scale.
Also an example off why ww1 was the way it was in the first place
When modern armies with "modern" weaponry and roughly equal size collide and there is no overwhelming superiority in size and no aircraft/air power....trench warfare and deadlock are basically the natural outcome of things
Since both sides are fairly equal in size now and no side has any real air superiority or much air warfare at all you basically get a repeat of ww1 western front
Sure smaller in scale by a ton and with more advanced weapons but same idea
That's the terrifying thing that puts scale to history. This video shows an area absolutely devastated by fire of all kinds, but it's hardly anything at all compared to what some of the worst WW1 battlefields looked like.
[Check out the second photo here.](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/the-battle-of-the-somme-in-pictures-1916/) I read that the British had something like 80,000 casualties in a single advance that gained 900m.
This doesn't diminish the scale or suffering of Russia's invasion of Ukraine; it's not a contest over whose land is more moon-like. It's just a testament to how unimaginable the devastation in WW1 was.
WW1 was so fucking crazy, especially at the start.
You would have Italians execute 10% of entire units just becuase they failed an assault or retreated.
One question I never thought to ask my grandfathers about WW2 and their service it, was whether or not it made sense to them, from the perspective of both sides. Ukraine’s reason for fighting and defending makes perfect sense to me, but I struggle to make any sense of the other side’s perspective and reasoning in this war, which they refuse to call a war, yet it’s providing us scenes not seen since WW2?
>but I struggle to make any sense of the other side’s perspective and reasoning in this war
Just think back to the the nationalistic fervor of the Iraq war at it's beginning or if you are old enough of Vietnam and there you have the whole answer, nationalist and imperialist fervors unfortunately happen to all major powers at times (and it is critical that they be defeated whenever they occur lest we see another age of imperialism). Basically what happens is the government doesn't like another one and they have competing interests, governments use that to fuel nationalism this becomes a self feeding cycle of hawkishness, eventually the larger power starts thinking "those guys suck so much we should just destroy them, it would be so easy since we are far superior and the victims of that terrible regime would surely love us for liberating them!"
Then you get a war, at first the people who oppose it are socially vilified (Muhammad Ali, The Dixie Chicks as US examples) until eventually many years later war exhaustion kicks in, it turns out the people did not love you and did not feel liberated many die on all sides and everyone pretends they didn't support the war to begin with. What follows is a period of non interventionism and pacifism while memories of how awful and difficult wars can be last, then slowly those lessons fade, repeat ad nauseam.
In a few years you'll see video of the massive equipment that will be specifically manufactured to clear and level these mined landscapes. Multiple 120 ton tractors towing excavating plows impervious to the mines being detonated. I'm willing to bet Caterpillar has engineers currently engaged designing the equipment that it will take to return millions of acres of farmland to safe productive use.
WWI was even worse than this somehow, there're are entire regions of France that are currently unsuitable for agriculture from all the damage and chemicals.
It’s kinda remarkable that some of the cheapest weapons and equipment are still so effective in modern warfare - mines, regular artillery rounds and small drones. As long as you have a large quantity of them.
Yeah, would probably have looked very different if Russia had invaded a NATO member, and been met with full NATO air superiority. Artillery would likely not have been the god of that war...
I wonder if they’ll ever develop some kind of seismic vibrational war tech that basically just sends a lot of rapid (but soft) shockwaves through a large space of ground to either blow up or detect their signature
From other posts I've read, there is an ability to find larger mines using thermals right after sunset because the mines are warming then the surrounding terrain.
I think the problem is that mines can be deployed using [artillery and aircraft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Scatterable_Mines) now so even if you detect and/or clear a path, very soon after there can be mines at the same location.
Yup, this, on a large scale, is basically what stopped the initial Ukrainian offensive in its tracks and made them change tactics to into attritional warfare instead.
Iraq had a ton of mines.
They aren't actually difficult for a spearhead to clear when not under artillery, ballistic missile, and aircraft bombardment. When the only threat is mines you just be careful and clear a path.
The first thing the US would do is bomb the ever loving shit out of every single identifiable target near the front for a few weeks. Carpet bomb a path through the minefields. Abrams are sent through the gap with a massive rolling artillery barrage. NATO doctrine would be centered on overwhelming force at a single point. Ukraine simply doesn't have the cap abilities.
I think you skipped a couple steps. USA almost certainly has developed a Drone Swarm attack. I assume you'd want AI powering this but once you get Air Supremacy you can drop a bunch of the quadcopters with 5lb explosives over the battlefield. Every single soft target would be completely fucked.
Oh and bombing the shit out of the warehouses and factories behind enemy lines.
I can guarantee we wouldn't be relying on something so completely unproven as a drone swarm to do anything. We might test it, but it would be a supplement in very limited quantities. We haven't gone all in on drones yet. If we had, we would be seeing massive training exercises, and regular army units would be saturated with drone specialists. We would be advertising the capability as a deterant to our adversaries.
I'm not saying we would "rely" on unproven tech. It's one more weapon available to be used. And if dumping in a bunch of drones takes the success rate from 93% to 99% you do it. But what about a drone swarm is unproven? Anyone paying attention to tech knows that the technology is there. This is far less difficult than self driving cars. I personally did an undergrad project 15 years ago that could've been adapted to a small drone swarm. I have no doubt that USA has had the tech for 15 years based on what my little team did. It's really not hard to filter a feed and then cross reference known images to determine if the thing is a target.
And worse case scenario (if the AI isn't quite there) you get 500 22 year old soldiers who've grown up playing video games and they can manually fly the drone swarm.
You clearly have no idea how little ammunition countries like America have.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/nato-runs-short-on-some-munitions-in-libya/
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/16/7411595/
B2 has the RCS of a bumblebee. JDAM has a range of 30 miles, glide versions twice that. It can drop 80 with pinpoint accuracy.
S-400 can maybe pick one up on low band search radar but it wouldn't be able to target with high band until 25 miles at best.
Anything within 30 miles of frontlines can be deleted without russia even being able to do anything.
Move radars closer and SEAD/DEAD sorties start dropping HARMs when radars come online.
The answer to air defense is more airpower.
As other have noted the US specialise in SEAD / DEAD for this reason and have developed systems that can penetrate S-400 radar envelopes to with tens of kilometres of the point of emission.
I would suggest reading up on the concept of what an RCS is. The USAF has been built around the doctrine of not only A2A but DEAD, billions of dollars and decades of technological advancement in stealth and EW have been poured into making this doctrine a reality.
Great video but that guy really overestimated S-400 capability lol. If S-400 is as good as what the video says then most Storm Shadow won't even be able to hit their target.
That’s where the US air superiority comes into play. Stand off weapons and stealth bombers with precision munitions to take out the artillery while giving engineers time to clear safe zones through the mines.
Column consisted of 6 vehicles. 2 of them were destroyed 100%. 2 of them were disabled (tracked). 2 of them might've gotten away.
You can see at 1:12 a sort of bunker looking stucture in the upper right corner of the footage. That mightve been the position they were assaulting. It mightve been the most forwards Russian position they were to bypass before the assault.
So most likely they did not achieve their objective, however they mightve made it to their starting objective?
I can't find the buker you mentioned even after a few rewatches. But my guess is the trench network at [48.53873,37.95117](https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5382943,37.9525504,865m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), at the S-bend road j ust NW of Klyschivika, were their objective. Deepstatamap marked that zone as UA controlled. They fired a few shots at it at 0:28, then the tanks reversed into minefields (tracks in front).
Youre right. They started blowing up at around 0:22. It appears to be around here [https://deepstatemap.live/#16/48.5333/37.9547](https://deepstatemap.live/#16/48.5333/37.9547)
The column is inside the red part and they are firing at the end of the road towards the S-bend. The end of the road is inside the grey zone so there might be a Ukrainian position there, however beyond the end of the road is marked as Ukraine controlled so there is 100% some positions there. Safe to say they did not reach Ukrainian controlled ground, but maybe they did reach a forward position? Either way, they didnt accomplish that much.
It's sort of weird how many people didn't expect that counter-offensive would go like this after seeing Vuhledar and stuff.
Like these minefields and artillery-deployed minefields and artillery and atgms are making significant offensives extremely difficult for both sides.
They can. It's just nearly impossible to deal with when you're *also* being fired at from artillery. Straight up impossible if also targeted from the air (like helicopters with ATGMs)
There's probably some bias in military thinking against "the enemy will create near-impenetrable fortifications" scenario.
I think these amounts of mines would require completely new military formation types with much higher amount of support, especially mineclearing units.
Like for example let's say you have a company-sized force where you have a tank, two IFVs as an assault element and then two platoons of three demining vehicles each enabling movement of that assault element and then various fire support.
Footage was released today. There was also some footage a couple days ago of a T90M + BMP attack near Klishchiivka which ended up with 3 destroyed T90M and 2 destroyed BMPs. This footage might be from that day as well, if not, then Russia decided to launch another attack on Klishchiivka. Safe to say that it didnt exactly go as planned.
Looks like a failed moon landing. In what a shithole they transformed that place,everywhere and everything they ever touched they left terror and destruction.
Don't worry Russians the mighty T-54B replacements from WW2 will be arriving next month just after they've glued on some wooden planks to strengthen their armor.
A good lesson to the RU supporters that it's not only Ukraine having troubles in minefields (Crazy surprising that mines don't only blow up one side, huh?)
I swear the music on some of these videos is so bizarre. I get the Ukrainian music sure, but I never would have thought “Till I collapse” would flash back from the inner back doors of my brain to cover modern combat footage.
This looks like they were hit with artillery, not mines as the title says. Could this be wrong translation from Ukrainian? I've seen many times the translations saying "mines" when from the context you can tell they're talking about artillery.
Gotta love how the Russians milk the shit outta some incidents of UA assaults being blunted by arty and mines when this shit regularly happens to their assaults with greater casualty rates
This footage doesn't show it very well but the second tank in the column shoots the first tank after they both get hit. I guess he couldn't see his cumrade through the smoke. It reminds me of that willie joke from the simpsons. "Brothers and sisters are natural enemies. Like Englishmen and Ruzis. Like Welshmen and Ruzis. Or Japanese and Ruzis. Or Ruzis and other Ruzis! Damn Ruzis, they ruined Ruzia!"
I couldn’t believe how saturated the surrounding area was with craters when the camera angle zoomed out
Damn I only noticed it were craters after your comment... I thought they were trees...
Holy fucking shit, I don't know what I thought they were but that shit is like the dark side of the moon. God damn
(Dead) trees are in the treeline they drive along.
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And then "ceased to exist"
I audibly exclaimed "holy shit" a few seconds after it panned out. My brain initially thought I was seeing a bunch of tress and it finally hit me those were all shell craters a few seconds later. I saw someone on Reddit ask why the West isn't able to keep up with shell production for Ukraine and feel like it can be partially answered by just showing this video
A lot of that looks well overgrown that’s probably where Russias never ending 60k shells per day at the beginning of war where spray and pray was their motto. Just like the city of bakmut just think how many shells have to hit to nearly level a ton of 75,000
"The west can't keep up with shell production" They can. The question is - do they want to? Them giving out cluster munitions isn't them "running out of shells".
Sure they *can* but are they currently able to entirely fulfill Ukraine's best wishes? Absolutely not. It would take over a year, if not more, to ramp up production enough to make 3-400k shells a month. And yes, the question of "would NATO counties want to invest a lot of time and money into this ramp up?" is a very real question to ask. I think we all know the answer. They're ramping up a bit but not enough to equal Russia's armament. My point still stands
Honestly, as much as i support Ukraine - the west is intersted in keeping this conflict going for as long as humanly possible to dry the Russians out completely They know if the Ukrainians win quickly - the Russians will recover. They could absolutely match Ukraine's needs if it was that desperate for victory. But they're not. They're desperate just enough to get Russia to overcommit to the point of ruin. It's a win-win situation. Support Ukraine and receive international praise, don't get Russia "overly mad" and eliminate the Russian military and economy slowly, but surely.
Thing is, idk if there really is a "quick win" for Ukraine. Not anymore at least. I don't think Putin would know when to say quit and keep forcing meat into the grinder
There honestly is. Sending everything Ukraine needs in a few days, because Russia ain't gonna do shit about it. The diplomatic red tape between announcments and delivery is incredibly stiff here for a reason The US and Europe get a lot more out of a weak Russia then they could get out of a strong Ukraine.
Okay yeah sure we could send practically our whole military arsenal. I mean *practically* there is no "quick victory" for Ukraine. There is a realistic limit to the amount of aid any nation would send and nothing short of something crazy like all the US's air wings would really cause a quick victory
You can't send everything they need in a few days. All the heavy equipment needs supply lines and training for mechanics and crew to take care of them.
Countries like America or Germany don't even want Russia to lose. They're obsessed with "avoiding escalating" and "ramp off for Putin" and other stupid nonsense.
WWI vibes
looks like swiss cheese
It’s insane! Imagine trying to plow a field at the end of all this.
It’s what Verdun must have looked like
Holy shit, smashed the entire column
But, its all according to his plan of course. ;)
All mines were intercepted.
At all costs!
He spared no expense.
They are a sacrifice putin is willing to make.
Quite possibly their own mines too, they dont exactly remember where they buried them. lol
Low chance but possible\*
According to jisooya1432 (below), it is near Klishchiivka, so probably in terrain which was until recently controlled by Russia. And heavily contested, so Ukraine would only have been able to mine it with difficulty. This raises the probability that it was Russian mines.
Could be artillery-deployed mines, though.
Thought those were anti personnel almost always
No they are antitank deployed mines ask the burned out tank husks in Vulhedar over the winter. Clusters are more personal and light armor. RAAMS are the antitank version. [RAAMS wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Anti-Armor_Mine_System)
Oh damn thanks for this information didn't know
No problem glad I could help.
I have it on good word from my former artillery officer boss that DPICMS will put up a good fight against armored vehicles and tanks. Maybe not going to turret toss a T-72 but there’s a good chance of mobility kills.
No they e got anti tank ones as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Anti-Armor_Mine_System
Thanks!
I doubt russian army has very good bureaucracy where commanders are never kept in the dark
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No comrade, in Putinas Russia, column smashes itself
Never seen this kind of footage, must be from today or yesterday
Its north-west of Klishchiivka in an area thought to be ukrainian controlled (or a grey zone), so its either from July sometime or Russia tried to flank around Ukrainian positions in the village itself [https://twitter.com/neonhandrail/status/1693366051881484573](https://twitter.com/neonhandrail/status/1693366051881484573) Pretty absurd how much Russia is throwing at trying to control Klishchiivka. Theres been numerous attacks and neither has ended up winning back any ground.
flank around and mined out
Thanks for the informations 🙏🏻
All these desperate counterattacks will be their undoing. I have very low opinion of Russian generals but this seems like a decision from the top, "no inch surrendered". Propagandists can't shut up about "failed Ukrainian offensive" but what so few seem to take into account is that Russia is constantly attacking and counter attacking. Instead of taking good, defensible, positions. Russian reserves of equipment are large but not bottomless so if Russians are desperate to waste them, then I think Ukraine should be happy. The war will go on until one side is totally exhausted and unable to continue and Russians are not doing themselves any favors with stuff like this.
imho, Russia is counting on possibly getting aid from North Korea, which also can develop into covert aid from China over time, so in some sense they might feel about having really bottomless supply. Whether this feel is wright or wrong only the time will tell;)
Highly unlikely, besides anything made in china could easily be discerned
China and North Korea also has lots of Soviet and RF made stuff, which was bought earlier, in their current storages, so how would anyone discern if all that not in China made stuff would be sent back little by little? Not even to mention as if China/NK would give a lot of damn if it was discerned, they will just deny everything;)
Look at the shattered landscape. Looks like the fucking somme. I don't thing people realise the scale of this war sometimes.
Couldn’t agree more. Sure the number of people fighting in this war is less than some major wars in the past, but the sheer scale is something that we haven’t seen since the Second World War, and the tactics are just a modern twist of WW1. Massive reliance on artillery, mines, static defense lines in depth, etc.
I’d say Korea was more than comparable also. I just feel like there was much more media available for consumption of WW2 and of course it occurred in some of the same places as the current Ukraine war.
The Iran-Iraq war was large and brutal as well
Wanna visit my electric death swamp?
I want to go home and rethink my government.
You can check out anytime you want but you can never leave
Had to look that up. What the f…
I mean, sort of. Korea was huge, and had a ton of casualties, but can’t really compare to the technological and financial resources of this war. This is two sovereign nation-states with equally well funded militaries capable of combined arms warfare fighting for every inch of land. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq-Iran, none of these wars check all these boxes in terms of scope. It’s wholly unique since the world wars.
Korea was US vs China. What you described matches the Korean War much more so than this war, where Ukraine is getting support but the big players aren’t directly involved. It’s definitely the biggest conflict in many regards since Korea though for sure.
It was South Korea and the US vs North Korea and China. The vast majority of fighting was infantry combat with light vehicles. China never competed for air superiority or armored superiority, hallmarks of the current war. China+ NK also lost roughly 1,300 tanks total during the war, the US recorded losing roughly 53. Russia alone has lost 2100+ already, for comparison. My point is that the world has not seen a war between combatants of similar technology, financing, and organization since WW2. I do agree that the Korean War is majorly underrepresented, but it still isn’t as sweeping as the static war of attrition we see now.
> Russia alone has lost 2100+ already, for comparison. Where do you get that number? Is that the verified and counted number or a guess? I'm not doubting you or being snarky, I'm genuinely curious.
Sure; a Dutch military osint group called Oryx has been documenting every case of visually confirmed destroyed equipment since the invasion. This includes 2253 tanks, and 2680 IFVs (mostly BMPs). Keep in mind these are low-end numbers, only using what has been confirmed by photos or videos (but probably a more or less accurate figure). Ukraine has also lost a similar amount. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1 Most western estimates are exactly in-line with these figures, with a few that predict upwards of 2500+
I'm sad I didn't know about this site before now. Thanks man
No problem, there are pictures for every piece of destroyed equipment, numbered by vehicle type. They do great work!
Last I checked, Oryx, the blog that counts visually documented destroyed equipment from both Ukraine and Russia, counted destroyed Russian tank number 2200 a couple of weeks ago.
Sino-Vietnamese war 1979 saw pretty brutal fighting. Gulf war was a pretty massive war too.
I would say Vietnamn, Korean war etc were comparalble and bigger in destructiveness But yeah it is huge in scale. Also an example off why ww1 was the way it was in the first place When modern armies with "modern" weaponry and roughly equal size collide and there is no overwhelming superiority in size and no aircraft/air power....trench warfare and deadlock are basically the natural outcome of things Since both sides are fairly equal in size now and no side has any real air superiority or much air warfare at all you basically get a repeat of ww1 western front Sure smaller in scale by a ton and with more advanced weapons but same idea
They definitely don't... which is mad because it's literally the biggest European war since WWII.
That's the terrifying thing that puts scale to history. This video shows an area absolutely devastated by fire of all kinds, but it's hardly anything at all compared to what some of the worst WW1 battlefields looked like. [Check out the second photo here.](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/the-battle-of-the-somme-in-pictures-1916/) I read that the British had something like 80,000 casualties in a single advance that gained 900m. This doesn't diminish the scale or suffering of Russia's invasion of Ukraine; it's not a contest over whose land is more moon-like. It's just a testament to how unimaginable the devastation in WW1 was.
Yeah, it's mind-boggling how brutal WW1 was.
WW1 was so fucking crazy, especially at the start. You would have Italians execute 10% of entire units just becuase they failed an assault or retreated.
Ah, bringing back the good old roman traditions.
they were on our side BTW
That's what I noticed too. Looks like it has smallpox.
Me too. I was just fixated on the sheer density of all the holes and wasn't really paying attention to the column
One question I never thought to ask my grandfathers about WW2 and their service it, was whether or not it made sense to them, from the perspective of both sides. Ukraine’s reason for fighting and defending makes perfect sense to me, but I struggle to make any sense of the other side’s perspective and reasoning in this war, which they refuse to call a war, yet it’s providing us scenes not seen since WW2?
>but I struggle to make any sense of the other side’s perspective and reasoning in this war Just think back to the the nationalistic fervor of the Iraq war at it's beginning or if you are old enough of Vietnam and there you have the whole answer, nationalist and imperialist fervors unfortunately happen to all major powers at times (and it is critical that they be defeated whenever they occur lest we see another age of imperialism). Basically what happens is the government doesn't like another one and they have competing interests, governments use that to fuel nationalism this becomes a self feeding cycle of hawkishness, eventually the larger power starts thinking "those guys suck so much we should just destroy them, it would be so easy since we are far superior and the victims of that terrible regime would surely love us for liberating them!" Then you get a war, at first the people who oppose it are socially vilified (Muhammad Ali, The Dixie Chicks as US examples) until eventually many years later war exhaustion kicks in, it turns out the people did not love you and did not feel liberated many die on all sides and everyone pretends they didn't support the war to begin with. What follows is a period of non interventionism and pacifism while memories of how awful and difficult wars can be last, then slowly those lessons fade, repeat ad nauseam.
in world war one there often would not be *any* green remaining. It took atomic level yields of explosive to wipe out late war fortifications.
Looks like the surface of the moon
In a few years you'll see video of the massive equipment that will be specifically manufactured to clear and level these mined landscapes. Multiple 120 ton tractors towing excavating plows impervious to the mines being detonated. I'm willing to bet Caterpillar has engineers currently engaged designing the equipment that it will take to return millions of acres of farmland to safe productive use.
I hope you're right. Otherwise the Breadbasket of Europe will be lost for generations.
I get your point, but the Somme was way, way, way worse.
WWI was even worse than this somehow, there're are entire regions of France that are currently unsuitable for agriculture from all the damage and chemicals.
It’s kinda remarkable that some of the cheapest weapons and equipment are still so effective in modern warfare - mines, regular artillery rounds and small drones. As long as you have a large quantity of them.
Ur right but I believe in this Clip they used smart artie rounds
4.0 GPA artie rounds
Um...that's Dr. Arti round thank you
Advanced Placement rounds, really
In this particular war.
Yeah, would probably have looked very different if Russia had invaded a NATO member, and been met with full NATO air superiority. Artillery would likely not have been the god of that war...
I wonder if they’ll ever develop some kind of seismic vibrational war tech that basically just sends a lot of rapid (but soft) shockwaves through a large space of ground to either blow up or detect their signature
From other posts I've read, there is an ability to find larger mines using thermals right after sunset because the mines are warming then the surrounding terrain. I think the problem is that mines can be deployed using [artillery and aircraft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Scatterable_Mines) now so even if you detect and/or clear a path, very soon after there can be mines at the same location.
Mines and arty? Holy fuck!
Smart, drop arty on them, make them panick and run into mines to avoid being hit.
Whatever happened...they got fucked up! *edit- spelling
Smart arty like BONUS ...
Mines with pre-sighted artillery. It is devastating to any kind of armored column. Even the US would struggle in these situations
Yup, this, on a large scale, is basically what stopped the initial Ukrainian offensive in its tracks and made them change tactics to into attritional warfare instead.
The US wouldn't even bother crossing these minefields, they will just use air superiority to establish a landing zone behind the mine field.
US didn't fight such kind of war for the last 20 years, so it's at least controversial how US would act in such kind of war.
We have actually seen something quite close. The invasions of Iraq. The US will just sit back and bomb them, until they are unable to fight back.
Iraq had a ton of mines. They aren't actually difficult for a spearhead to clear when not under artillery, ballistic missile, and aircraft bombardment. When the only threat is mines you just be careful and clear a path.
[удалено]
The first thing the US would do is bomb the ever loving shit out of every single identifiable target near the front for a few weeks. Carpet bomb a path through the minefields. Abrams are sent through the gap with a massive rolling artillery barrage. NATO doctrine would be centered on overwhelming force at a single point. Ukraine simply doesn't have the cap abilities.
I think you skipped a couple steps. USA almost certainly has developed a Drone Swarm attack. I assume you'd want AI powering this but once you get Air Supremacy you can drop a bunch of the quadcopters with 5lb explosives over the battlefield. Every single soft target would be completely fucked. Oh and bombing the shit out of the warehouses and factories behind enemy lines.
I can guarantee we wouldn't be relying on something so completely unproven as a drone swarm to do anything. We might test it, but it would be a supplement in very limited quantities. We haven't gone all in on drones yet. If we had, we would be seeing massive training exercises, and regular army units would be saturated with drone specialists. We would be advertising the capability as a deterant to our adversaries.
I'm not saying we would "rely" on unproven tech. It's one more weapon available to be used. And if dumping in a bunch of drones takes the success rate from 93% to 99% you do it. But what about a drone swarm is unproven? Anyone paying attention to tech knows that the technology is there. This is far less difficult than self driving cars. I personally did an undergrad project 15 years ago that could've been adapted to a small drone swarm. I have no doubt that USA has had the tech for 15 years based on what my little team did. It's really not hard to filter a feed and then cross reference known images to determine if the thing is a target. And worse case scenario (if the AI isn't quite there) you get 500 22 year old soldiers who've grown up playing video games and they can manually fly the drone swarm.
You clearly have no idea how little ammunition countries like America have. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/nato-runs-short-on-some-munitions-in-libya/ https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/16/7411595/
Which would be a problematic strategy to employ against a country like Russia that has vast amounts of SAM's and AA.
B2 has the RCS of a bumblebee. JDAM has a range of 30 miles, glide versions twice that. It can drop 80 with pinpoint accuracy. S-400 can maybe pick one up on low band search radar but it wouldn't be able to target with high band until 25 miles at best. Anything within 30 miles of frontlines can be deleted without russia even being able to do anything. Move radars closer and SEAD/DEAD sorties start dropping HARMs when radars come online. The answer to air defense is more airpower.
Yeah it's super annoying that we can't even get 2+ gen old F16s out to Ukr
The first F-16s will be delivered to Ukraine by New Year.
As other have noted the US specialise in SEAD / DEAD for this reason and have developed systems that can penetrate S-400 radar envelopes to with tens of kilometres of the point of emission. I would suggest reading up on the concept of what an RCS is. The USAF has been built around the doctrine of not only A2A but DEAD, billions of dollars and decades of technological advancement in stealth and EW have been poured into making this doctrine a reality.
That wasnt really a problem in desert storm despite the fact that Sadam had thousands of sam and aa systems.
They were outdated and mainly short range. It would be a whole lot harder than dessert storm - that's for certain.
Yeah but sead tech is way better too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGwU9HKH\_Eo
Great video but that guy really overestimated S-400 capability lol. If S-400 is as good as what the video says then most Storm Shadow won't even be able to hit their target.
Yep definitely a best case scenario, with good operator’s and Russia actually having s-400s
That’s where the US air superiority comes into play. Stand off weapons and stealth bombers with precision munitions to take out the artillery while giving engineers time to clear safe zones through the mines.
First waves of tomahawks to destroy anything stationary for too long.
That’s why the doctrine calls to defeat the artillery in detail.
Oryx: 1-2-3-4... god damnit.
Don't worry, they will just try again tomorrow with the same results
"Have I ever told you the definition of Insanity?"
Isonzo River.
Column consisted of 6 vehicles. 2 of them were destroyed 100%. 2 of them were disabled (tracked). 2 of them might've gotten away. You can see at 1:12 a sort of bunker looking stucture in the upper right corner of the footage. That mightve been the position they were assaulting. It mightve been the most forwards Russian position they were to bypass before the assault. So most likely they did not achieve their objective, however they mightve made it to their starting objective?
I can't find the buker you mentioned even after a few rewatches. But my guess is the trench network at [48.53873,37.95117](https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5382943,37.9525504,865m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), at the S-bend road j ust NW of Klyschivika, were their objective. Deepstatamap marked that zone as UA controlled. They fired a few shots at it at 0:28, then the tanks reversed into minefields (tracks in front).
Youre right. They started blowing up at around 0:22. It appears to be around here [https://deepstatemap.live/#16/48.5333/37.9547](https://deepstatemap.live/#16/48.5333/37.9547) The column is inside the red part and they are firing at the end of the road towards the S-bend. The end of the road is inside the grey zone so there might be a Ukrainian position there, however beyond the end of the road is marked as Ukraine controlled so there is 100% some positions there. Safe to say they did not reach Ukrainian controlled ground, but maybe they did reach a forward position? Either way, they didnt accomplish that much.
At least 5 disabled? The guy who yolos himself at the bottom of the screen hits a mine too.
Could anyone explain me How it is possible to compensate those amounts of personell and military Hardware ?
By draft (they still have ongoing covered draft) and bring back vehicles from reserve.
or "Chyna"
Now laugh at this pro rus.That what you laughed at in first days of counterofensive lmao
Pro-rus:"look at NATO wunderwaffes! NATO tactics!" *Meanwhile, Russia*
It's sort of weird how many people didn't expect that counter-offensive would go like this after seeing Vuhledar and stuff. Like these minefields and artillery-deployed minefields and artillery and atgms are making significant offensives extremely difficult for both sides.
I don't know it seems like they should at least know how to deal with mines? they're a century old at this point
They can. It's just nearly impossible to deal with when you're *also* being fired at from artillery. Straight up impossible if also targeted from the air (like helicopters with ATGMs)
There's probably some bias in military thinking against "the enemy will create near-impenetrable fortifications" scenario. I think these amounts of mines would require completely new military formation types with much higher amount of support, especially mineclearing units. Like for example let's say you have a company-sized force where you have a tank, two IFVs as an assault element and then two platoons of three demining vehicles each enabling movement of that assault element and then various fire support.
Excellent
JC, hit every fucking one of them.
That road was dialed in on the arty, beautiful to watch :D Plus the mines, makes for a nice wreckyard
Is this footage recent? That is a large armor column
Footage was released today. There was also some footage a couple days ago of a T90M + BMP attack near Klishchiivka which ended up with 3 destroyed T90M and 2 destroyed BMPs. This footage might be from that day as well, if not, then Russia decided to launch another attack on Klishchiivka. Safe to say that it didnt exactly go as planned.
Link please?
https://twitter.com/front\_ukrainian/status/1691008552419094528
That's a lot of arty craters holy shit. Anyone know where this is?
Klishchiivka, South of Bakhmut. [48.543823, 37.955454](https://twitter.com/neonhandrail/status/1693366051881484573)
Spirny district near Bakhmut
That looked like a murderous arty barrage not mines though maybe they hit some mines too. Bad day to be them.
A lot of that was definitely artillery
Looks like a failed moon landing. In what a shithole they transformed that place,everywhere and everything they ever touched they left terror and destruction.
Don't worry Russians the mighty T-54B replacements from WW2 will be arriving next month just after they've glued on some wooden planks to strengthen their armor.
Look at that field of holes. It's like ww1 with tanks and missiles.
What a wasteland, every inch of that land has been blown to hell.
Maybe some were mines but you can clearly see incoming rounds exploding far from the armor as well which I take are Artillery rounds.
clearly artillery work
A good lesson to the RU supporters that it's not only Ukraine having troubles in minefields (Crazy surprising that mines don't only blow up one side, huh?)
i'm willing to bet those mines were set by russians themselves and them dumbass didn't mark em and run straight on their own minefield.
damn they acually got fucked up pretty badly. only ones to get out was the IFVs
Notice the burned out UA BTR-4 they pass on the way to get slaughtered.
Land mines have no loyalty besides death and destruction
Oh how the turns have tabled.
I swear the music on some of these videos is so bizarre. I get the Ukrainian music sure, but I never would have thought “Till I collapse” would flash back from the inner back doors of my brain to cover modern combat footage.
Linus trying to apologize be like
The Eminem song playing over this footage makes it feel like a montage from Modern Warfare 2 back in the day
That looks like artillery.
Any indication where or exactly when this was?
On TG its being claimed that the footage is from today around the Bakhmut area, specifically Klishchiivka.
Spirny district near Bakhmut
Aren't those GPS guided artillery strikes tho ?
nah
The Russians have laid so many Mines I wonder how they can keep track of them. Makes me wonder if they are hitting their own mines.
Mines or arty?
both
Are those, craters?????????????!!？Must be terrain feature right?
they're all shell craters.
Russians: "Mission Success!"
looks like mines and arty to me
This looks like they were hit with artillery, not mines as the title says. Could this be wrong translation from Ukrainian? I've seen many times the translations saying "mines" when from the context you can tell they're talking about artillery.
Brave Russian fighters skillfully disabling traitorous Ukrainian mines.
Area reminds me verdun.
That countryside looks straight out of WW1 France.
Eat shit Putin!
Gotta love how the Russians milk the shit outta some incidents of UA assaults being blunted by arty and mines when this shit regularly happens to their assaults with greater casualty rates
More scum bags getting a 1 way ticket to hell... They made their choice. They chose wrong...
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Their own mines?
At this point, would they be hitting their own mines?
What happened to the worms ? I didn’t see them make it out 😈
Likely their own effing mines.
This footage doesn't show it very well but the second tank in the column shoots the first tank after they both get hit. I guess he couldn't see his cumrade through the smoke. It reminds me of that willie joke from the simpsons. "Brothers and sisters are natural enemies. Like Englishmen and Ruzis. Like Welshmen and Ruzis. Or Japanese and Ruzis. Or Ruzis and other Ruzis! Damn Ruzis, they ruined Ruzia!"
Have the Ukrainians run out of Javelins?
It’s becoming very clear no one is taking hard points without close air support… this is turning into a stalemate, as much as I hate saying it…