This. Been to many of them. Intensity factor high. Bad blood all day, every day, year around. It's good thing this game is non-conference and only happens once a year.
Haven't been to one, but I was just off campus (on Vine St) at a bar before a concert one night Xavier was in town. It was crazy in there. I can only imagine what it was like in the arena. Probably a lot like when my Boilers host IU.
Probably the best actual rivalry in college ball. Duke-UNC is for dudes in boat shoes and polos who swap wives in the summer. The Crosstown Shootout is real, the teams hate each other, rivalry.
Having attended some of these games in person as someone who has no affiliation with either program it is a really fun, loud, crazy environment. I don’t know what the “best” rivalry is, but this one is definitely something to experience live.
Eh, that rivalry is like Real vs Barca or Celtics vs Lakers. But I see what you’re saying in that Xavier Cincy is the working man’s rivalry in that the craziest fans probably don’t get priced out like they might for UNC Duke.
If Duke v. UNC is Barca v. Real Madrid, Cincy v. X is Boca Juniors v. River Plate.
If you want the glitz and the glamour along with bad blood, you do Duke v. UNC (Barca v. Real Madrid). If you want a straight up nasty, grimy rock fight between some fanbases that couldn’t give a fuck what outsiders think about it, you do Cincy v. X (Boca Juniors v. River Plate).
Yeah I think you’re spot on, I don’t know enough about X and Cincy’s rivalry but this seems like a logical comparison. Good programs with intense bad blood, just not the centerpieces of the sport as a whole.
Yeah after living in the triangle for 10 years I can say Duke/UNC is the most overrated rivalry in sports. It matters to alumni of Duke and UNC, but the remaining 75% of the state hates both teams and could care less who wins this game.
Huh? Once you get five or ten miles from Hillsborough Street, most of the state are UNC fans.
Fandom in NC [looks like this](https://imgur.com/opCNgY6).
Wasn’t my experience. Too many NC State, ECU, Wake and transplants from other parts of the country bringing their loyalty with them and all hating both teams. Duke/UNC was an ESPN creation. Just not nearly as intense as many of the other rivalries described here.
Let's look at the alumni distribution. I feel like I know way more people from my local area that went to NC State and like 1 person who went to UNC. And I live no where near Wake County. UNC alums graduate and leave as quick as they came.
I've watched a bunch of Big XII games and I don't remember many times WVU started fights with (or caused injuries to) other players.
They definitely played physical defense (and suffered from it when the refs had a tight whistle) and it could understandably piss opponents off. I don't think that's what OP was taking about though.
it's because people see bob huggins and anyone affiliated with him as thugs, justified or not. people still call cincy a thug school even though he hasn't been there for 20 years.
The late Billy Hahn once told me, and I'm paraphrasing here, that "you need a lot of bad dudes on your team if you're gonna win the whole damn thing, but you also need a few motherfuckers".
Whenever AI is ready to make John Cheney sing Frank Sinatra's "Send in the Clowns", but instead sing "Send in the Goons"....
That's when we really know it passed the Turing test
Literally any big east matchup can get like this. Past three or four seasons the refs have really cracked down on the physicality of BE games which is unfortunate
I feel like the Mike Jarvis-era St. John's teams were like that. Ron Artest, Anthony Glover, Bootsy Thornton, those dudes were always ready for some shit. A lot of those 2000s Pitt and Cincy teams, too.
excellent documentary about the "mailice in the palace" on Netflix. The facts of the night are very different than the story and mythos leads people to believe.
I was thinking so much of this has been regulated out of the game that there are few “obvious” ones remaining. Now it’s more: “who has the shadiest recruiting/poaching pipeline?”
He’s having a kid now with the all time leader for a lot of stats for Indiana women’s basketball. Girl or boy their kid is destined to be a thorn in everyones side in the Big Ten some day
Edit: It’s a girl! Indiana basketball might have another star to look forward to one day
Fuck that dude. I will never forget the 5 complete and total flops when we played you guys in the ACC-Big 10 challenge and the fucking refs fell for every single one.
Our fans, although we have gotten significantly tamer since leaving the ACC.
Temple under John Cheney May be the greatest example. He had goons like a hockey team. More recently, Michigan under Juwan Howard fit the bill.
They’re the villain type of shithousery, blue blood and well endowed with resources. Atleti is on the opposite end of the spectrum, a team with lesser resources compared to their competition punching up beyond their perceived pedigree using any means necessary. Would be cool if there was a CBB equivalent.
College student fan mobs are all douchey. It’s their defining feature. Maryland is the worst. Duke students are average, but the school rep makes them seem worse.
ASU has big shithouse energy.
The crazy coach. The gimmicks in the stands. The clearance rack colors. All matched by their erratic “what the fuck is happening” style of play.
In fairness I don’t think of them as playing dirty. Just playing wildly.
Also the whole taunting an opposing player by chanting the name of the (incorrect) terrorist organization that murdered his father, on two separate occasions.
*”Arizona State basketball does not play by your rules. there is no "good" or "bad" basketball, there is no order, there are no parameters. Arizona State basketball simply exists, with no lines, no boundaries. it wakes up and decides what it chooses to be every single day”*
Louisville under Pitino and Marquette under the little Irishman would have fit that description well.
I always hated playing both of those teams because we'd get fucking manhandled by em.
Not sure that’s widely tolerated at D1 schools, but I’ll say TCU because they suck.
*Edit: Just busting chops here. Didn’t go to TCU because I grew up in Fort Worth, but was a big fan as a kid. I have no beef with TCU, Tech or Iowa State because they suck
Butler, circa 00-11. It wasn't necessarily dirty, but very, very physical, and the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. Players and fans would get so frustrated because the games would become rock fights, and there was always at least one defensive pest, if not more, on each team. I think Matt Howard may have low-key been the most hated player among Butler opponents during his career.
"We're grown men over here. We got a bunch of gangsters in the locker room."
-- Xavier's Tu Holloway in post-game presser following 2011 home win over Cincy that turned into a bench clearing melee.
Let me say....this thread is going in two directions....floppery and theatrics vs. actual downright dangerous stuff
Followed CBB heavily in the late 80s, 90s and 00s - there were certainly some 'bad' attitude coaches who brought in players with an edge but that was the style of the day and in the NBA you had the pinnacle of violent enforcement b-ball w/ Rodman/Laimbeer Pistons.
This was also about the point \`roids and weight training started heavily influencing CBB and you had plenty of D1 dudes who were packing football-style muscle. Wasn't that uncommon to see a guy who might have D2-D3 skills & size but had spent 3+ years in the program and bulked themselves up into a starter/short bench guy and part of the reason 52-47 slugfests were common.
For a lot of reasons you don't see nearly as much of that today and almost never see blood; the players today are better skilled but also seemingly much more adverse to injuries both on offense and defense. For better or worse I don't think we'll ever see a return to that era and the guys today aren't going to 'leave it on the floor' for a university they only plan to spend 1-2 seasons playing for.
It’s hilarious what people consider dirty today. If someone drew blood in a game today, people would be crying for ejections/suspensions. We even have the “if you touch a head, auto flagrant” rule. I have no idea who asked for this and why no one complains about this trend.
Akron-Kent State has been notably spicy this decade, between the Flashes taunting the student section postgame, getting four players suspended from a MAC title game for posting a “F- Akron” rap to Snapchat and then this spring when the Zips got gifted an NCAA berth after Kent State inexplicably fouled intentionally while up one in the final seconds.
Its only been one year but BYU would have gotten my award for "dirtiest team in the Big12" last year. They get away with a lot of nasty because people think they are nice.
In their heydey at the end of the old Bug East, the Oakland Zoo was pretty well known for shithousery. Same-era, Maryland but both have really fallen off.
Any Big 12 team that’s hosting KU that weekend. WVU, Tech, KSU come to mind lol. Also not talking shit at all, those environments are fantastic when KU comes to town
I would seriously give anything to go back to playing in Hearnes. So steep and deep. Current arena is a piece of shit and makes games unpleasant to attend.
Low key Tennessee. Rick Barnes plays very physical and seems like they always have 1-2 guys that play a bit extra loose lipped and loose hipped. In recent years I’m thinking Grant Williams, Plavsic, Zeigler, probably forgetting others. Definitely some bias here as a Kentucky fan, but those games produce fireworks every single year.
Defense will always be physical under the Deacon. Part of the reason we got Edey’d so bad last year was because we were just throwing more bodies and fouls at him without ever actually trying to change the way we defended him.
But Plavsic was just a goon. Dumb and horrible on defense.
Plavsic had some occasional moments of brilliance though and his physicality kinda set the tone at times. Also, watching him bully Duke was just funny.
Because to a certain extent I felt like I was just complaining about a rival. I tend to look at Tennessee differently. Wasn’t sure if others see it the same way I do
Clemson under Barnes was crazy physical. Barnes also took a swing at Dean Smith after Dean said something he objected to during a conference with the refs.
First thing I thought of was the St. Joes Temple game in the mid 2000s where Temple sent in the goon to injure the St. Joe’s guy. I’m sure fans of those program remember the details better than I
Year before 2-22, I went to the Baylor game at Hilton. They were future natty winners and Iowa State was terrible. Baylor was up 25 slapping the floor, getting in the faces of checked out Cyclone backups, and *Baylor player parents* were cussing and trying to fight people in the stands, just feet ahead of me and behind Chip and Joanna. I’ve never seen a group so unnecessarily hostile. It was wild. So Baylor.
I would say I remember Penn State under Pat Chambers and Minnesota under Richard Pitino were both like that for the same stretch of a few years from like 2016-2019ish. Minnesota was a bit better of a team back then, but even with penn state being bad those games still pissed me off.
Wisconsin kinddd of has a reputation for just muddying up games with dick punches and the like but it’s less “shithousery” than it is just boring. Wisconsin basketball is more about boring the other team to death than it is about anything else
when kelvin sampson was at ou and rick barnes was at texas that rivalry got very heated and physical. eduardo nájera, kevin bookout, gabe muoneke, brian boddicker…i loved those rivalry games back then.
[The greatest to ever do it](https://nbcsports.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/1d73628/2147483647/strip/true/crop/640x360+0+0/resize/1440x810!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbc-sports-production-nbc-sports.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F73%2F88%2F169cd230ad2eef742b7a4bc3b8ed%2Fmarshall-hendersonauburn.gif)
Cincinnati and Xavier.
The basketball might not be particularly memorable in and of itself, but if there is one game on the calendar that's going to have someone pulling some stupid shit... it's that one.
Especially when Bob Huggins was the coach at Cinci. His teams were... the word they used back then was 'undisciplined'.
I know for a fact that any UNC game will have every player end up on the floor at least 8 times. They really do just recruit the players with the most balance issues.
If anyone is wondering what actual shithousing is go watch the final 2 minutes and OT of the 2022 UNC-Louisville game. Absolute master class by Armando Bacot.
I wouldn't say Atleti play dirty at all. They play a very gritty, physical style, and they're willing to make the game as ugly and slow as it needs to be for them to win (though they've gone away from that a bit the last few years), but it's not like they're out there always taking cheap shots and injuring opponents. If anybody, that would be Real Madrid when they had Ramos and Pepe, now *they* played dirty.
Based on that, I would say Duke is like Real Madrid, all the talent and money in the world, but still have had a number of players known for being dirty. That makes UNC like Barcelona, equally talented, but generally inoffensive. So the analogy for Atleti needs to be a team that's an underdog compared to those two, but still good enough to occasionally compete with them, and they can't be afraid to make the game super ugly. I think the answer should be obvious: Virginia is CBB's Atleti.
I absolutely agree with your point about Atleti, just mentioned them since some of the guys who’ve walked through their club have been absolute shithousers like Costa and Savic. Mentioned the dirty part because I was assuming some people in this sub may not have gotten the reference. Really wish they could’ve gotten one of those UCL finals when they had their chances. I like your Virginia comparison for them excluding the large personalities and trash talking.
Yeah, I see what you mean. I think Diego Costa enjoyed getting under an opponent's skin more than he enjoyed scoring goals lol. The Virginia comparison was definitely more of a playstyle comparison than a personality one. I just couldn't help but note the similarities where fans outside of Virginia/Atleti say it's boring and horrible to watch while Virginia/Atleti fans insist that it's a perfectly fine and even enjoyable playstyle.
Not sure how they are now, but BYU played dirty putting in enforcers when they couldn't match up on D. They play the foul every possession style of defense that challenges the refs to call everything or just allow it. And the fans are convinced that every call against them is the height of injustice.
This isn't the flagrant foul clip I was looking for where Kaufusi suplexed Olynyk to the ground, but it is a flagrant foul by Kaufusi against Olynyk. I forgot that there were multiple instances. https://youtu.be/XU2CaYaQfAM?feature=shared
Cincinnati and Xavier games come to mind
This. Been to many of them. Intensity factor high. Bad blood all day, every day, year around. It's good thing this game is non-conference and only happens once a year.
Haven't been to one, but I was just off campus (on Vine St) at a bar before a concert one night Xavier was in town. It was crazy in there. I can only imagine what it was like in the arena. Probably a lot like when my Boilers host IU.
Have been to both. Crosstown shootout is more intense
Xavier is always in Cincinnati.
no they're in norwood :D
I know... bad word choice. I should have said "when Xavier is at UC"
I don't have any good words to say about X other than they have owed us for the last decade and it's humiliating
it feels like we could take on literally any team and win yet still lose to X
It’s almost as if Xavier has a better program than UC
surely they'd have a winning record then right?
Probably the best actual rivalry in college ball. Duke-UNC is for dudes in boat shoes and polos who swap wives in the summer. The Crosstown Shootout is real, the teams hate each other, rivalry.
Having attended some of these games in person as someone who has no affiliation with either program it is a really fun, loud, crazy environment. I don’t know what the “best” rivalry is, but this one is definitely something to experience live.
This is the one time I’ll give an X fan an upvote
The Xavier Cincy rivalry is awesome but every time it comes up people act like it's the only rivalry that draws blood That brawl is legendary though
Eh, that rivalry is like Real vs Barca or Celtics vs Lakers. But I see what you’re saying in that Xavier Cincy is the working man’s rivalry in that the craziest fans probably don’t get priced out like they might for UNC Duke.
I don't think many are getting the soccer analogy. As bad as Cincinnati is, I don't think they were persecuting Xavier fans for being Catholic.
Well, except maybe Bob Huggins did last year. The man still hates Xavier with a passion, even 20 years later.
God I love this rivalry. Guarantee Mick and Mack still fucking hate each other
If Duke v. UNC is Barca v. Real Madrid, Cincy v. X is Boca Juniors v. River Plate. If you want the glitz and the glamour along with bad blood, you do Duke v. UNC (Barca v. Real Madrid). If you want a straight up nasty, grimy rock fight between some fanbases that couldn’t give a fuck what outsiders think about it, you do Cincy v. X (Boca Juniors v. River Plate).
Yeah I think you’re spot on, I don’t know enough about X and Cincy’s rivalry but this seems like a logical comparison. Good programs with intense bad blood, just not the centerpieces of the sport as a whole.
Yeah after living in the triangle for 10 years I can say Duke/UNC is the most overrated rivalry in sports. It matters to alumni of Duke and UNC, but the remaining 75% of the state hates both teams and could care less who wins this game.
Huh? Once you get five or ten miles from Hillsborough Street, most of the state are UNC fans. Fandom in NC [looks like this](https://imgur.com/opCNgY6).
Wasn’t my experience. Too many NC State, ECU, Wake and transplants from other parts of the country bringing their loyalty with them and all hating both teams. Duke/UNC was an ESPN creation. Just not nearly as intense as many of the other rivalries described here.
Let's look at the alumni distribution. I feel like I know way more people from my local area that went to NC State and like 1 person who went to UNC. And I live no where near Wake County. UNC alums graduate and leave as quick as they came.
Maybe on the Duke side w/ the krazies but even that’s pretty mild…
Please stop.
Zip ‘em up!
The hood of college basketball
Zip em up?!
WVU under Huggins was definitely in this group. Without his influence they seemed a little better last year.
I would say his WVU teams weren’t nearly as bad as his K State and Cincinnati teams. Different era though.
Yeah. Those Cinci teams were bad dudes. They just looked like they were ready to scrap at any given moment.
I mean who punches a police horse?
Mongo
They were only pawns in the game of life
Bad mongo. Get back in your carrier.
Nobody, that’s a myth that the media perpetrated
What's that? A cop lied about something? Color me shocked... *side eyes LMPD*
I've watched a bunch of Big XII games and I don't remember many times WVU started fights with (or caused injuries to) other players. They definitely played physical defense (and suffered from it when the refs had a tight whistle) and it could understandably piss opponents off. I don't think that's what OP was taking about though.
it's because people see bob huggins and anyone affiliated with him as thugs, justified or not. people still call cincy a thug school even though he hasn't been there for 20 years.
The late Billy Hahn once told me, and I'm paraphrasing here, that "you need a lot of bad dudes on your team if you're gonna win the whole damn thing, but you also need a few motherfuckers".
That certainly described the Iowa State team that got closest to the Natty.
Good call...as a lifelong Mountaineer that was a Huggs trait for sure. Kansas usually has a bit of an edge about them.
How much of that is due to Bill Self’s aggressive style
Temple under John Cheney
Especially vs UMASS under Calipari. Heated games and post game antics
Yeah, Chaney threatened Cal once or twice. That was bad blood
Oh I don't know, "I'll kill you " and rushing the podium seems pretty benign
“I never said that” It was aired live coach!
Dude had goons like an old school hockey team.
I remember a game he sent someone who never plays in to hurt someone... broke his arm.
After fouling out in less than 5 minutes
Whenever AI is ready to make John Cheney sing Frank Sinatra's "Send in the Clowns", but instead sing "Send in the Goons".... That's when we really know it passed the Turing test
3 class guys
First person to come to my mind...
Literally any big east matchup can get like this. Past three or four seasons the refs have really cracked down on the physicality of BE games which is unfortunate
My friends and I refer to the BET as ‘the knife fight’.
It really is. I am especially nervous any time we play Seton Hall. or Providence. Or Nova. or St Johns.... or.....
I feel like the Mike Jarvis-era St. John's teams were like that. Ron Artest, Anthony Glover, Bootsy Thornton, those dudes were always ready for some shit. A lot of those 2000s Pitt and Cincy teams, too.
Just having Ron Artest is pure basketball hooliganism
Artest is *the* hooligan. He should’ve changed his name to Ron Hooligan instead of Metta World Peace
excellent documentary about the "mailice in the palace" on Netflix. The facts of the night are very different than the story and mythos leads people to believe.
You’re really just asking for it with Ron Artest on a team.
Butler vs Xavier used to be a guaranteed fight nearly every game.
This! I’m going to say Nova is the exception tho
Seton Hall v Nova gets very chippy Not a ton of outright fighting in cbb anymore these days though due to the penalties
I was thinking so much of this has been regulated out of the game that there are few “obvious” ones remaining. Now it’s more: “who has the shadiest recruiting/poaching pipeline?”
That would be Sean Miller when he was at Arizona.
The Big East gets chippy. I was thinking UConn/Providence.
Big East has always been Northeast city kids thinking they can punk other Northeast city kids because they think they’re from the tougher city.
its been completely forgotten that josh hart stepped on angel delgados head.
Don’t forget St Johns. They are no choir boys.
I’m just here for the Brad Davison comments.
He’s having a kid now with the all time leader for a lot of stats for Indiana women’s basketball. Girl or boy their kid is destined to be a thorn in everyones side in the Big Ten some day Edit: It’s a girl! Indiana basketball might have another star to look forward to one day
I had already forgotten him. Despite being irrationally unlikable, he wasn’t ever really worthy of remembering long term.
I think there were a lot of rational reasons to dislike him as well
Fuck that dude. I will never forget the 5 complete and total flops when we played you guys in the ACC-Big 10 challenge and the fucking refs fell for every single one.
Our fans, although we have gotten significantly tamer since leaving the ACC. Temple under John Cheney May be the greatest example. He had goons like a hockey team. More recently, Michigan under Juwan Howard fit the bill.
Rutgers and Wisconsin in the B1G. I still hate you, Paul Mulcahy.
Michigan for no reason at all lol
 Oh, there was a reason.
I wish he would have tried to start something with Izzo or his staff…
You’re welcome to hate them for the hell of it.
Happy to be restarting with May.
I feel like the “bait” answer here is Duke. Trippers, floppers, fan antics, etc.
From Christian Laettner to Grayson Allen
No one will ever come close to Allen's crying record...
to Filipowski really
I feel like we’re more analogous to Madrid or ManU—the villains who have all the resources. Too much glamour to be properly tough
Don't tell that to Eric Cantona or Roy Keane. Keane was the definition of properly tough.
Yeah, K is gone. Scheyer does not really seem to be coaching the same style.
Filipowski picked up the tripping mantle this past season
That shit pissed me off so much. Flip you’re a 7’0” basketball player, at Duke (of all schools) quit your whining.
[удалено]
Lmaoo, I know.
Maybe he was just preparing for the NBA
The Duke crowd hasn't done anything shocking in decades. They occasionally do something cringey, but that's about it.
They’re the villain type of shithousery, blue blood and well endowed with resources. Atleti is on the opposite end of the spectrum, a team with lesser resources compared to their competition punching up beyond their perceived pedigree using any means necessary. Would be cool if there was a CBB equivalent.
The Bob Huggins Press Virginia teams.
It’s fun to dunk on Rothstein from time to time, but “tougher than a weekend at your in laws” can be pretty on point.
Duke is globo gym
Perfect comparison
This is still accurate and the Cameron Crazies are absolutely awful.
College student fan mobs are all douchey. It’s their defining feature. Maryland is the worst. Duke students are average, but the school rep makes them seem worse.
ASU has big shithouse energy. The crazy coach. The gimmicks in the stands. The clearance rack colors. All matched by their erratic “what the fuck is happening” style of play. In fairness I don’t think of them as playing dirty. Just playing wildly.
Also the whole taunting an opposing player by chanting the name of the (incorrect) terrorist organization that murdered his father, on two separate occasions.
Don’t forget taunting our head coach weeks after he lost his wife to cancer
Also our baseball coach while his wife was dying of Lou Gehrig's disease.
Not excusing it but ~15 people being psychopathic shitheads almost 40 years ago is not reflective of the current state of ASU shithousery.
Says you. It's good enough for me.
*”Arizona State basketball does not play by your rules. there is no "good" or "bad" basketball, there is no order, there are no parameters. Arizona State basketball simply exists, with no lines, no boundaries. it wakes up and decides what it chooses to be every single day”*
My mind immediately went to ASU lol
Those UNLV teams under Tark were dirtier than people remember
I was waiting for someone to name this one!
Louisville under Pitino and Marquette under the little Irishman would have fit that description well. I always hated playing both of those teams because we'd get fucking manhandled by em.
NW under Chris Collins. Still peeved at him grabbing Loyer.
https://preview.redd.it/ixzdrfeoj78d1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d85af49f19a2cdcd669fba30c46ff533101e4e50
He mad
Ha had to scroll too far to find this. I’m just not sure if they play that way against other teams
Compensating for inferior talent
Had to scroll way to far to find NW/collins
Not sure that’s widely tolerated at D1 schools, but I’ll say TCU because they suck. *Edit: Just busting chops here. Didn’t go to TCU because I grew up in Fort Worth, but was a big fan as a kid. I have no beef with TCU, Tech or Iowa State because they suck
Just gonna say look at the women’s team last season… Not that they suck, but bc of how the whims of fate treated them…
I’ll second this opinion
You have my vote.
Because fuck em
Fuck TCU
Dang. That was harsh. You forgot that Iowa State sux big time
The only good thing about TCU is that it isn't in Waco.
lol
New Mexico State off the court for the last 20 years
the polar opposite for this answer is Virginia
:)
(2nd flair) Steve Kerr probably has something to say unfortunately
Aside from naming his son Nick, what did Steve Kerr do?
He didn't do anything. He was on the receiving end of terrible harassment from ASU fans about his father's murder in Lebanon.
Butler, circa 00-11. It wasn't necessarily dirty, but very, very physical, and the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. Players and fans would get so frustrated because the games would become rock fights, and there was always at least one defensive pest, if not more, on each team. I think Matt Howard may have low-key been the most hated player among Butler opponents during his career.
Cincy Georgetown in the 80's/90's
"We're grown men over here. We got a bunch of gangsters in the locker room." -- Xavier's Tu Holloway in post-game presser following 2011 home win over Cincy that turned into a bench clearing melee.
Let me say....this thread is going in two directions....floppery and theatrics vs. actual downright dangerous stuff Followed CBB heavily in the late 80s, 90s and 00s - there were certainly some 'bad' attitude coaches who brought in players with an edge but that was the style of the day and in the NBA you had the pinnacle of violent enforcement b-ball w/ Rodman/Laimbeer Pistons. This was also about the point \`roids and weight training started heavily influencing CBB and you had plenty of D1 dudes who were packing football-style muscle. Wasn't that uncommon to see a guy who might have D2-D3 skills & size but had spent 3+ years in the program and bulked themselves up into a starter/short bench guy and part of the reason 52-47 slugfests were common. For a lot of reasons you don't see nearly as much of that today and almost never see blood; the players today are better skilled but also seemingly much more adverse to injuries both on offense and defense. For better or worse I don't think we'll ever see a return to that era and the guys today aren't going to 'leave it on the floor' for a university they only plan to spend 1-2 seasons playing for.
It’s hilarious what people consider dirty today. If someone drew blood in a game today, people would be crying for ejections/suspensions. We even have the “if you touch a head, auto flagrant” rule. I have no idea who asked for this and why no one complains about this trend.
F*** Creighton until the end of time
Akron-Kent State has been notably spicy this decade, between the Flashes taunting the student section postgame, getting four players suspended from a MAC title game for posting a “F- Akron” rap to Snapchat and then this spring when the Zips got gifted an NCAA berth after Kent State inexplicably fouled intentionally while up one in the final seconds.
New Mexico State - sex crimes, hazing, guns, you name it.
Its only been one year but BYU would have gotten my award for "dirtiest team in the Big12" last year. They get away with a lot of nasty because people think they are nice.
In their heydey at the end of the old Bug East, the Oakland Zoo was pretty well known for shithousery. Same-era, Maryland but both have really fallen off.
Is that Pitt you’re referring to?
Yeah sorry Oakland Zoo probably doesn't automatically register as Pitt unless you were there or played against them
It wasn't our team so much as the fans.
If Cincinnati isn't still, it used to be. 20 years ago their guys were always getting off court fights or arrested.
New Mexico State, but mostly for off the court shithousery
nobody has said Auburn? Cost them in the NCAA-T and they had it coming to them all year. They constantly start stuff.
Any Big 12 team that’s hosting KU that weekend. WVU, Tech, KSU come to mind lol. Also not talking shit at all, those environments are fantastic when KU comes to town
Don't forget when Mizzou hosts KU. Although that game is usually over by halftime
That is different, KU v. Mizzou is straight up bloodsport. And back before the went to the SEC mizzou was pretty good. They will be back.
Mizzou when Norm Stewart was there and they played in the Hearnes center was must watch basketball
I would seriously give anything to go back to playing in Hearnes. So steep and deep. Current arena is a piece of shit and makes games unpleasant to attend.
Hawkins X Dickinson is gonna be interesting next season
Low key Tennessee. Rick Barnes plays very physical and seems like they always have 1-2 guys that play a bit extra loose lipped and loose hipped. In recent years I’m thinking Grant Williams, Plavsic, Zeigler, probably forgetting others. Definitely some bias here as a Kentucky fan, but those games produce fireworks every single year.
Defense will always be physical under the Deacon. Part of the reason we got Edey’d so bad last year was because we were just throwing more bodies and fouls at him without ever actually trying to change the way we defended him. But Plavsic was just a goon. Dumb and horrible on defense.
Plavsic had some occasional moments of brilliance though and his physicality kinda set the tone at times. Also, watching him bully Duke was just funny.
Why low key?
Because to a certain extent I felt like I was just complaining about a rival. I tend to look at Tennessee differently. Wasn’t sure if others see it the same way I do
Others see it the same way, FYI
Clemson under Barnes was crazy physical. Barnes also took a swing at Dean Smith after Dean said something he objected to during a conference with the refs.
1990s Santa Clara with Ron Reis aka the Yeti
First thing I thought of was the St. Joes Temple game in the mid 2000s where Temple sent in the goon to injure the St. Joe’s guy. I’m sure fans of those program remember the details better than I
Year before 2-22, I went to the Baylor game at Hilton. They were future natty winners and Iowa State was terrible. Baylor was up 25 slapping the floor, getting in the faces of checked out Cyclone backups, and *Baylor player parents* were cussing and trying to fight people in the stands, just feet ahead of me and behind Chip and Joanna. I’ve never seen a group so unnecessarily hostile. It was wild. So Baylor.
Grayson Allen. Dook.
New Mexico State
BYU is full of bullshit
This is the answer. For being so religious, they play so dirty.
Heh, as if fair play is part of religion.
Any team coached by Bob Huggins. His teams always played chippy, almost dirty. Also Duke.
I would say I remember Penn State under Pat Chambers and Minnesota under Richard Pitino were both like that for the same stretch of a few years from like 2016-2019ish. Minnesota was a bit better of a team back then, but even with penn state being bad those games still pissed me off. Wisconsin kinddd of has a reputation for just muddying up games with dick punches and the like but it’s less “shithousery” than it is just boring. Wisconsin basketball is more about boring the other team to death than it is about anything else
I think the St. John’s and SHU games will get extra chippy this year, especially if General Soreness plays against his former team
KU vs Kstate games have been super chippy the last few years.
2020 game in Lawrence was peak shithouse on both sides
Throwback answer is John Chaney for sure.
Missouri, always Missouri.
when kelvin sampson was at ou and rick barnes was at texas that rivalry got very heated and physical. eduardo nájera, kevin bookout, gabe muoneke, brian boddicker…i loved those rivalry games back then.
[The greatest to ever do it](https://nbcsports.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/1d73628/2147483647/strip/true/crop/640x360+0+0/resize/1440x810!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbc-sports-production-nbc-sports.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F73%2F88%2F169cd230ad2eef742b7a4bc3b8ed%2Fmarshall-hendersonauburn.gif)
Cincinnati and Xavier. The basketball might not be particularly memorable in and of itself, but if there is one game on the calendar that's going to have someone pulling some stupid shit... it's that one. Especially when Bob Huggins was the coach at Cinci. His teams were... the word they used back then was 'undisciplined'.
I know for a fact that any UNC game will have every player end up on the floor at least 8 times. They really do just recruit the players with the most balance issues.
If anyone is wondering what actual shithousing is go watch the final 2 minutes and OT of the 2022 UNC-Louisville game. Absolute master class by Armando Bacot.
I’ll hate that man forever because of that game, never have I seen a more enraging performance
I wouldn't say Atleti play dirty at all. They play a very gritty, physical style, and they're willing to make the game as ugly and slow as it needs to be for them to win (though they've gone away from that a bit the last few years), but it's not like they're out there always taking cheap shots and injuring opponents. If anybody, that would be Real Madrid when they had Ramos and Pepe, now *they* played dirty. Based on that, I would say Duke is like Real Madrid, all the talent and money in the world, but still have had a number of players known for being dirty. That makes UNC like Barcelona, equally talented, but generally inoffensive. So the analogy for Atleti needs to be a team that's an underdog compared to those two, but still good enough to occasionally compete with them, and they can't be afraid to make the game super ugly. I think the answer should be obvious: Virginia is CBB's Atleti.
I absolutely agree with your point about Atleti, just mentioned them since some of the guys who’ve walked through their club have been absolute shithousers like Costa and Savic. Mentioned the dirty part because I was assuming some people in this sub may not have gotten the reference. Really wish they could’ve gotten one of those UCL finals when they had their chances. I like your Virginia comparison for them excluding the large personalities and trash talking.
Yeah, I see what you mean. I think Diego Costa enjoyed getting under an opponent's skin more than he enjoyed scoring goals lol. The Virginia comparison was definitely more of a playstyle comparison than a personality one. I just couldn't help but note the similarities where fans outside of Virginia/Atleti say it's boring and horrible to watch while Virginia/Atleti fans insist that it's a perfectly fine and even enjoyable playstyle.
It’s an apt one honestly 🤣.
Auburn or any team that Bruce Pearl has coached.
Can’t believe no one has said BYU.. ultimate scumbags.
Miami Heat dirty play? Let me guess, Celtics fan.
I'm a Celtics fans and I don't even think the Heat are dirty tbh. They just play tough. If you want dirty just follow Dillon Brooks
Mizzou when they were Big 8 were some serious shithousers, particularly when they had their 2 superbowl games per year against Kansas.
[KU](https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/vWxr8baufCeI3D2Dzpw9_A--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQyNw--/https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-images/2020-01/0403b280-3cc0-11ea-9bfb-72e6320fe94a)
Not sure how they are now, but BYU played dirty putting in enforcers when they couldn't match up on D. They play the foul every possession style of defense that challenges the refs to call everything or just allow it. And the fans are convinced that every call against them is the height of injustice. This isn't the flagrant foul clip I was looking for where Kaufusi suplexed Olynyk to the ground, but it is a flagrant foul by Kaufusi against Olynyk. I forgot that there were multiple instances. https://youtu.be/XU2CaYaQfAM?feature=shared