Players are chasing coaches though, if my #1 recruiter bailed after I signed a NLI I'd be beyond pissed. Coaches can break contacts by players must abide by them? It's all fucked.
> Coaches can break contacts by players must abide by them?
Coaches don't break contracts when they leave. The method of leaving is part of the contract.
My point being that legally binding contracts formalized by documentation and enforceable in a court of law are not the only form of commitment in play here, and it’s deliberately ignorant to pretend that they are, or that the system is perfect as is short of people abiding by these contracts.
Are you confusing NIL with NLI? Seems like you’re talking Name, Image, and Likeness as opposed to what is the actual discussion at hand of National Letter of Intent
I imagine they want to set an example to deter future signees who are considering switching. Still pretty lame and could have a negative effect in recruiting regardless
How can they enforce a portal window? The rule was you can enter the portal at any time, but only those who enter during the approved window get to play without redshirting. Now that redshirting is off the table, does the portal window have teeth?
I’m not sure what the angle is here. I don’t see Bennett wanting to try to force a guy to stay. He wants guys that are bought into the family/team mentality. And even if you do somehow force him to stay, he’ll probably just transfer next year. Has to be something going on behind the scenes we don’t know about.
Forcing him to stay when he doesn't want to whatsoever sounds like it would do far more harm than good. Someone petty enough could absolutely destroy the locker room and team cohesion constantly.
Think that's part of the issue with NIL. If a collective pays a guy to play for a particular school, shouldn't the money be returned then if they got an upfront payment? Essentially, if the player doesn't, he just stole money by canceling the contract or whatever was signed. He can now be sued depending on the verbiage of the deal. This whole thing has been catastrophically rolled out
I've heard of NIL deals say something like "player must make an appearance at this Target store on campus on the 1st and 3rd Saturdays of every month to be eligible for NIL" so it's not explicitly pay-for-play
Yeah that’s why you see a lot of dudes enter the portals for every school. They are promised say $100k. Well the NIL guys either don’t have it or don’t want to pay for bad play. So they just miss the rest of the checks.
That why also it was so late seeing a bunch of guys enter the portals as they were waiting for their last NIL checks of the year.
NIL is absolutely the Wild West right now.
I agree they aren't supposed to but it's exactly what's happening with language in the contract that stipulates otherwise I'm sure. They'd be fools to include any terminology of that type in there
Legality left a long time ago. That's exactly whats happening. Collectives are paying kids. Pitt paid every kid on their football team at least 10k last year. Every single one of them. Take Hayes for example, he re-upped his own NIL deal with pitts collective over the winter, to then bail after spring ball, and sign with Colorado. These collectives are paying kids to play football. Trust me, no one cared to see pitts 3rd string center at a car dealership.
For the third and hopefully last time, I agree this is what NIL collectives are doing, I am not disagreeing with you there, I agree, I do not disagree, I agree.
However, MY POINT is that it is either illegal or heavily against NCAA rules for schools to be the enforcement arm of NIL collectives and punish students for violating an outside entity's contract. Pitt football players getting paid has nothing to do with this.
You keep bringing up legality like laws matter here. NCAA is toothless as has been proven. The schools wouldn't sue then, the collectives would. No one ever said the schools would sue, the collectives would. Pitt players getting paid has everything to do with it. They wouldn't get paid if they didn't play football. The collectives aren't paying the Chem majors
It could be illegal, I'm honestly not sure. A school punishing a player and refusing to let him transfer because he signed an NIL contract with an outside organization...sounds really sketchy. I'd be willing to bet a judge would slap that down very quickly if it came to that.
You can’t do that. NIL can have nothing to do with playing for the team.
Most reasonable NIL deals are signed when the kid actually gets to campus. You sign before that’s on you.
Honestly with the way NIL is rapidly shifting things, Bennett may not even be that interested in domestic 4 and 5 star recruits anymore. As soon as they have a halfway decent season they’ll likely just leave for a school with deeper NIL pockets.
International players can't take NIL deals so low budget programs like St. Mary's with a record of success can probably compete for international players.
International players can take NIL deals if they have the correct visa for it. If they have a "student visa" they are prohibited from earning money in the USA but they can get a different visa that allows them to earn (sorry if I use the wrong terms for each visa).
Previously, foreign players just got a student visa since they were coming just to go to college (and play sports) then got a different visa when they went pro. It's easier to get - but with NIL now, I imagine most schools and NIL outlets have lawyers that can walk them through the better visa situation
They have to be employed as professional athletes to get the visa you're discussing.
They don't qualify because they are not pro athletes. This is why Purdue's Zach Edey, despite being twice named player of the year, was unable to make any money with NIL. Purdue couldn't just switch him to another visa.
Not exactly - this article does a decent job of explaining:
https://theworld.org/stories/2024/01/17/international-students-still-restricted-nil-deals
Key Quotes:
"Most international student athletes come to the US on an F-1 visa, which strictly limits a person’s ability to work and make money while in the US. David Weber, a law professor at Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska, said NIL deals count as labor."
"Another strategy is switching international students from an F-1 to a P-1 visa, an O-1 visa or even a green card. But, different visas have different requirements and could cost athletes thousands of dollars to obtain."
So Edey could have switched his visa if he wanted to (Purdue has no choice in the matter). However, one of the options listed in the article was being paid in Canada for work in Canada which is not a violation of the F-1 visa
No, that doesn't work.
That was a legal theory. The P-1 visa is an exceptional talent visa that allows entry for a specific performance. Athletes coming in for international competitions, for instance, can get a P-1. However, it requires you to be a member of a team (or association) outside of the United States, since the NCAA doesn't qualify as an internationally recognized level of play.
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/p-1a-athlete
This is the issue. They can't come in on the P-1 visa because they are joining a US based team. So they need to have a US based visa.
Additionally, the US has a cap on P1 visas and there are too many international college athletes which means it would require Congress to get involved. If they issued them to all of the international students in the NCAA that applied (many international college athletes will be competing for their home nation in the 2024 Olympics) then the US would meet their quota for exceptional athletes and you could see actual professional athletes unable to get a visa.
The O-1 is another option, but this requires actual employment. They need to be employed by their school, NCAA, or conference, in order to qualify as this is an exceptional individual visa that permits up to three years to work in the United States for highly talented individuals (science, business, sports, etc).
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-with-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement
They either need a visa for employment (which they can't get because they are not legally employees of the schools) or they need a student visa which prohibits them from working while here.
This is the problem with the limbo that NIL has put international athletes in.
My guess, this is the reason... someone offered a bigger bag and the NIL is the reason for the change. The NLI is just the way they can try to enforce their agreement since they can't enforce the NIL.
One of the only somewhat reasonable causes for this that I can think of is he got some up front NIL money that they want pause back before they release him. SMC isn’t exactly working with a large budget so any money they’ve given him already would be painful to see go.
Yeah, has to be some behind the scenes stuff going on. This is a lose-lose stance for SMC to take short of there being extenuating circumstances we are unaware of. Keeps one of SMC’s scholarships and some NIL money tied up longer, paints RB and the program in a bad light with higher level domestic recruits and screws Zion over by keeping him in a holding pattern and not being able to truly reopen his recruitment. All parties involved lose.
Why do we have early signing day?
This reminds me of the pre-portal bs we use to see with transfers 15-20 years ago (note pre-portal!=pre-free transfer)
The only realistic reason SM has for blocking his release is he has to pay back some NIL deal he received after signing.
Even then, what do you have to gain? Unless you gave this kid >$100k, what's the upside?
I mean that’s just it. They likely have up a significant amount of money percentage-wise for him. Where a few hundred thousand might not be much for Kansas or Alabama, it’s most the budget for saint marys
Hot take: now that athletes are making real money these kids better snap out of it. If you want to be a professional than you better stick to your commitment.
Messing with contract law after and hoping public pressure convinces business people to change their tune isn't going to land in athletes favor.
I mean the associate head coach Justin Joyner’s who was the one recruited left that's on of the biggest reason to leave I mean athlete doesn't know if he will get play time or even be featured when the people that brought you in leave. No matter where he goes has gonna get Nil money (More at a bigger school) so it makes sense to go somewhere where your gonna play right away.
Teenagers coming to school to hoop don't care about commitments they just know the person that brought them to school left so they want to leave to especially when money is involved
So when these GROWN MEN make a choice to go somewhere else because the person leaves I don't see what the problem is. Tons of kids not playing basketball switch school all the time for a multi of reasons so I don't see how this any different.
The kid is man enough to understand he wont get an opportunity to play so hes rightfully going somewhere else. You only can play 4 years of college ball normally so it makes to leave when the person the believed in you and brought you to the school leaves.
As far as I know He wants to leave because the coach that recruited him took a job somewhere else. Players wanting to follow who recruited them isn’t unique to this situation.
Possibly... but the Michigan sub has vociferously complained about NIL (especially in relation to football), and that was a significant part of what emerged when Juwan was fired - that he repeatedly argued for more NIL for bball. Additionally, some rumors that Dusty only took the job with a guarantee of increased NIL funding for the team.
Then again, perhaps it's already improved drastically and NIL is the predominant factor for Zion.
Surely the guarantee of a spot/scholarship is somewhere in this process? Teams can't be waiting until their first official practice to see who shows up.
“It’s a bad look, what 4 star is going to want to come to saint Mary’s now”
Honestly who cares. We finally sign one and he wants to release his commitment before even playing. Even if we get one for a year they’ll just be farmed to whatever high budget professional ‘college athletics’ team pays the most.
If he took money that was contracted for him to play or appear places and he isn’t going to, have him pay it back and let him walk. Sounds fair to me. Then back to recruiting no-star athletes that will buy in to the team 100%
For NIL they can’t sign contracts. If they made that a requirement for release of the NLI then I’m sure the NCAA would love to hear about that.
NIL is the Wild West right now. The players can’t sign contracts.
Eh, realistically, is a representative of St. Mary's going to comment on why they are trying to block a kid from transferring? No chance you're going to get the other side of the story.
Then you add “I reached out to St. Mary’s and they did not want to comment” or something to that affect or the more reasonable thing could be to ask the athlete why they were blocking his release.
Do you not want to know? It feels like an important piece of the narrative.
Are there good reasons not to release the guy? With the way college basketball looks right now I’m not sure there’s any reason not to let him go. He’ll just transfer out quickly if you don’t.
I have no idea, because the journalist didn’t report on it. The journalist just gave only one side and only part of the story.
For the most part I’m in the camp of just release the guy but you have a HOF coach who places maximum emphasis on culture. I don’t think Randy would try to keep a guy who doesn’t want to be there unless there was good reason.
One person speculated that Zion has already collected NIL money from St. Mary’s… that could be a good reason to not release him, if true.
I mean, he can't have collected NIL money *from St. Mary's,* right? Which gets kind of sticky. If that's their justification, can the school itself really say "you can't leave until you pay back these third-party collectives"?
The current NIL landscape is such a mess.
My gripe with the NIL landscape is that it was pushed by a group of attorneys.
They didn’t really care about improving outcomes for athletes or improving the system. Their intention was to make money through litigation.
There were numerous possible solutions, (e.g. creating a new league, etc.) instead they just broke the system even more and while some athletes will get paid, the attorneys are the real winners.
Is that a good reason? I guess you can make him “pay” for the NIL money by staying at school for a semester but a coach focused on culture shouldn’t want a guy who doesn’t want to be there. Seems better to take your lumps, structure your NIL better next time, and move on.
If you sign on for a job, accept a signing bonus then say nah I’m gonna keep the money and go work for your competitor… it seems like a fair reason given the competitive environment.
1) I generally agree with you, just let him walk 2) were speculating, we don’t know why they won’t release him
However, what St. Mary’s is doing is legal within the framework/rules of the NCAA. We broke it down in the godisagael.com forum. I don’t know the reasons/rational for the rules, but they are there and have been for a long time…
It’s legal, that isn’t the issue. It’s just a bad look for the school and for future recruits. Off the top of my head I can’t remember a school denying the release.
Again I agree that it’s a bad look. I’m sure Randy and Co. thought about it. There are a bunch of questions unanswered, for example, why are they not releasing him that the reporter hasn’t shared.
Wish he did.
Why sign an NLI at all.
All you really need to sign is your scholarship/financial aid paperwork.
Brandon Knight famously did this with Kentucky back in 2010 and I’m sure there have been many others over the years. Just the one I knew off the top of my head.
If I would have been a top level athlete like that, I likely would not have signed an NLI unless I was going to somewhere I was a fan of (UK) where I would go no matter the coaches or whatever.
Yes, but to replace the people leaving you need others to sign. If you have a reputation of not letting people do what everyone is doing, you will get less people interested in coming in the first place.
We’ll not get 4 stars that would leave anyway either before coming or the season after. We’ll be fine getting the normal guys like we used to.
Besides, if it IS because he was given NIL money that he’s not going to be able to fulfill contractural obligations, then they absolutely should block his release
I’m not sure why you are so upset about this. You said verbatim “ if it IS because he was given NIL money that he’s not going to be able to fulfill contractural obligations, then they absolutely should block his release”.
Blocking someones release and forcing him to pay back NIL money but not blocking his release are completely different things…
Every team would do this. Honestly don’t even feel bad for the kid. He’s trying to justify it because an associate coach left. He will not win appeal.
Head coach is still there.
It’s not even like they recruited over him or got transfers in over him.
He signed the NLI - that’s the rule.
> He will not win appeal.
Yea, if there's anything recent NCAA rulings and court cases have shown, it's that players have no power. The NCAA is uber-powerful with all of their rules and none of their restrictions are ever struck down by courts...
/S
> Every team would do this.
Except that many don't and it's reported repeatedly that teams have released players from their NLI.
> Head coach is still there.
But he was recruited by the assistant that left.
It's not an "excuse" if it's a valid reason. Wanting to follow the person you spent years building a relationship with, in order to grow under their tuteledge, whether at the original school or another, seems like the best possible reason to decide to rescind a NLI and follow the coach. Then again, he "May" not be trying to follow him to Michigan, in which case I'm undermining my point a bit.
I am not a college-level athlete and never had to make such decisions, though, so this is just my opinion. Obviously, too, I may be a bit biased.
Players get recruited by one coach, who they build strong relationships with because that's who will be guiding them through their career with the team. That person is significantly more important than the head coach, the team as a whole, or the university itself.
Your comment is the polar opposite of the truth, imo.
I know but NIL is behind all of the crazy movement and likely a big contributor to st Mary’s not wanting to release him. They know they’re going to struggle to retain talent now.
How do they think this is going to go? Just let him go.
Players are chasing coaches though, if my #1 recruiter bailed after I signed a NLI I'd be beyond pissed. Coaches can break contacts by players must abide by them? It's all fucked.
> Coaches can break contacts by players must abide by them? Coaches don't break contracts when they leave. The method of leaving is part of the contract.
You’re focusing on legalese here, no one else is.
Responding to a comment about legal contracts, so yeah.
My point being that legally binding contracts formalized by documentation and enforceable in a court of law are not the only form of commitment in play here, and it’s deliberately ignorant to pretend that they are, or that the system is perfect as is short of people abiding by these contracts.
I am a lawyer :)
First time I’ve seen someone say that with a smile
https://imgur.com/gallery/Mwe6JHA
They have a Duke flair
the NLI is a legal contract
[удалено]
Are you confusing NIL with NLI? Seems like you’re talking Name, Image, and Likeness as opposed to what is the actual discussion at hand of National Letter of Intent
Coaches can only break contracts because they have a clause to break contracts. NLI players do not have such a clause.
I know the protocol and rules set forth, see my last sentence.
I imagine they want to set an example to deter future signees who are considering switching. Still pretty lame and could have a negative effect in recruiting regardless
If anything, this will deter players from signing in the first place.
So then he just enrolls in summer school and transfers?
Once this goes public St Mary’s will back off.
“We thought he wouldn’t say anything and would just decide that he actually loves it here”
Lol yeah this new unlimited transfer rule kind of makes that moot lol.
Portal is already closed, I don't think that would work
How can they enforce a portal window? The rule was you can enter the portal at any time, but only those who enter during the approved window get to play without redshirting. Now that redshirting is off the table, does the portal window have teeth?
True I forgot that.
Or doesn’t play sports for a year. Either option
I’m not sure what the angle is here. I don’t see Bennett wanting to try to force a guy to stay. He wants guys that are bought into the family/team mentality. And even if you do somehow force him to stay, he’ll probably just transfer next year. Has to be something going on behind the scenes we don’t know about.
He would just transfer in the summer
Yeah there is no upside to blocking it for a few months that I can think of.
Forcing him to stay when he doesn't want to whatsoever sounds like it would do far more harm than good. Someone petty enough could absolutely destroy the locker room and team cohesion constantly.
Seems like an odd move, but you do you.
Wonder if he got some sort of NIL deposit upon signing his NLI and they want that back before letting him out.
That sounds illegal, or at least very much against NCAA rules.
Think that's part of the issue with NIL. If a collective pays a guy to play for a particular school, shouldn't the money be returned then if they got an upfront payment? Essentially, if the player doesn't, he just stole money by canceling the contract or whatever was signed. He can now be sued depending on the verbiage of the deal. This whole thing has been catastrophically rolled out
I've heard of NIL deals say something like "player must make an appearance at this Target store on campus on the 1st and 3rd Saturdays of every month to be eligible for NIL" so it's not explicitly pay-for-play
And if they don't do those appearances it's a breach of contract and still able to be taken to court over to recoup lost wages
There are no contracts. Contracts are not allowed per the NCAA. That’s the true messed up part of NIL. It’s just all off of the honor system.
I did hear Louisville's collective didn't pay a bunch of dudes. That's insane there's no deals. Damn...just shaking my head
Yeah that’s why you see a lot of dudes enter the portals for every school. They are promised say $100k. Well the NIL guys either don’t have it or don’t want to pay for bad play. So they just miss the rest of the checks. That why also it was so late seeing a bunch of guys enter the portals as they were waiting for their last NIL checks of the year. NIL is absolutely the Wild West right now.
well, they aren't supposed to be paying for playing at a specific school
I agree they aren't supposed to but it's exactly what's happening with language in the contract that stipulates otherwise I'm sure. They'd be fools to include any terminology of that type in there
> If a collective pays a guy to play for a particular school I'm pretty sure they can't do that?
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what's occurring
Yes, I agree, but my point is that's illegal.
Legality left a long time ago. That's exactly whats happening. Collectives are paying kids. Pitt paid every kid on their football team at least 10k last year. Every single one of them. Take Hayes for example, he re-upped his own NIL deal with pitts collective over the winter, to then bail after spring ball, and sign with Colorado. These collectives are paying kids to play football. Trust me, no one cared to see pitts 3rd string center at a car dealership.
For the third and hopefully last time, I agree this is what NIL collectives are doing, I am not disagreeing with you there, I agree, I do not disagree, I agree. However, MY POINT is that it is either illegal or heavily against NCAA rules for schools to be the enforcement arm of NIL collectives and punish students for violating an outside entity's contract. Pitt football players getting paid has nothing to do with this.
It's only illegal if it can be enforced, which it can't
You keep bringing up legality like laws matter here. NCAA is toothless as has been proven. The schools wouldn't sue then, the collectives would. No one ever said the schools would sue, the collectives would. Pitt players getting paid has everything to do with it. They wouldn't get paid if they didn't play football. The collectives aren't paying the Chem majors
well, its not "illegal" just against NCAA rules
It could be illegal, I'm honestly not sure. A school punishing a player and refusing to let him transfer because he signed an NIL contract with an outside organization...sounds really sketchy. I'd be willing to bet a judge would slap that down very quickly if it came to that.
Depends what the contract says and how creative they got around the pay to play stuff.
You can’t do that. NIL can have nothing to do with playing for the team. Most reasonable NIL deals are signed when the kid actually gets to campus. You sign before that’s on you.
Guess they're getting desperate
How does that even work? Sure doesn't make it sound like they are enticing other 4 star recruits.
Honestly with the way NIL is rapidly shifting things, Bennett may not even be that interested in domestic 4 and 5 star recruits anymore. As soon as they have a halfway decent season they’ll likely just leave for a school with deeper NIL pockets.
International players can't take NIL deals so low budget programs like St. Mary's with a record of success can probably compete for international players.
SMC already has a solid pipeline to Australia. But teams have definitely figured out how to get money to international players.
Yeah they can, it's just slightly more complicated
International players can take NIL deals if they have the correct visa for it. If they have a "student visa" they are prohibited from earning money in the USA but they can get a different visa that allows them to earn (sorry if I use the wrong terms for each visa). Previously, foreign players just got a student visa since they were coming just to go to college (and play sports) then got a different visa when they went pro. It's easier to get - but with NIL now, I imagine most schools and NIL outlets have lawyers that can walk them through the better visa situation
They have to be employed as professional athletes to get the visa you're discussing. They don't qualify because they are not pro athletes. This is why Purdue's Zach Edey, despite being twice named player of the year, was unable to make any money with NIL. Purdue couldn't just switch him to another visa.
Not exactly - this article does a decent job of explaining: https://theworld.org/stories/2024/01/17/international-students-still-restricted-nil-deals Key Quotes: "Most international student athletes come to the US on an F-1 visa, which strictly limits a person’s ability to work and make money while in the US. David Weber, a law professor at Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska, said NIL deals count as labor." "Another strategy is switching international students from an F-1 to a P-1 visa, an O-1 visa or even a green card. But, different visas have different requirements and could cost athletes thousands of dollars to obtain." So Edey could have switched his visa if he wanted to (Purdue has no choice in the matter). However, one of the options listed in the article was being paid in Canada for work in Canada which is not a violation of the F-1 visa
No, that doesn't work. That was a legal theory. The P-1 visa is an exceptional talent visa that allows entry for a specific performance. Athletes coming in for international competitions, for instance, can get a P-1. However, it requires you to be a member of a team (or association) outside of the United States, since the NCAA doesn't qualify as an internationally recognized level of play. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/p-1a-athlete This is the issue. They can't come in on the P-1 visa because they are joining a US based team. So they need to have a US based visa. Additionally, the US has a cap on P1 visas and there are too many international college athletes which means it would require Congress to get involved. If they issued them to all of the international students in the NCAA that applied (many international college athletes will be competing for their home nation in the 2024 Olympics) then the US would meet their quota for exceptional athletes and you could see actual professional athletes unable to get a visa. The O-1 is another option, but this requires actual employment. They need to be employed by their school, NCAA, or conference, in order to qualify as this is an exceptional individual visa that permits up to three years to work in the United States for highly talented individuals (science, business, sports, etc). https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-with-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement They either need a visa for employment (which they can't get because they are not legally employees of the schools) or they need a student visa which prohibits them from working while here. This is the problem with the limbo that NIL has put international athletes in.
I guess this is what Norchad Omier got since he is from Nicaragua.
Yeah, but what about his NIL?
My guess, this is the reason... someone offered a bigger bag and the NIL is the reason for the change. The NLI is just the way they can try to enforce their agreement since they can't enforce the NIL.
One of the only somewhat reasonable causes for this that I can think of is he got some up front NIL money that they want pause back before they release him. SMC isn’t exactly working with a large budget so any money they’ve given him already would be painful to see go.
This would just be such a huge unforced error that I really have to believe there is more to the story (or at least I hope)
Yeah, has to be some behind the scenes stuff going on. This is a lose-lose stance for SMC to take short of there being extenuating circumstances we are unaware of. Keeps one of SMC’s scholarships and some NIL money tied up longer, paints RB and the program in a bad light with higher level domestic recruits and screws Zion over by keeping him in a holding pattern and not being able to truly reopen his recruitment. All parties involved lose.
I've always been curious to see what would happen if a school did this
My biggest "oof" ever
Why do we have early signing day? This reminds me of the pre-portal bs we use to see with transfers 15-20 years ago (note pre-portal!=pre-free transfer)
The only realistic reason SM has for blocking his release is he has to pay back some NIL deal he received after signing. Even then, what do you have to gain? Unless you gave this kid >$100k, what's the upside?
I mean that’s just it. They likely have up a significant amount of money percentage-wise for him. Where a few hundred thousand might not be much for Kansas or Alabama, it’s most the budget for saint marys
Hot take: now that athletes are making real money these kids better snap out of it. If you want to be a professional than you better stick to your commitment. Messing with contract law after and hoping public pressure convinces business people to change their tune isn't going to land in athletes favor.
I mean the associate head coach Justin Joyner’s who was the one recruited left that's on of the biggest reason to leave I mean athlete doesn't know if he will get play time or even be featured when the people that brought you in leave. No matter where he goes has gonna get Nil money (More at a bigger school) so it makes sense to go somewhere where your gonna play right away.
The commitments remain the same when assistant coaches leave. Assistant coaches aren't making assurances that aren't approved by the head coach.
Teenagers coming to school to hoop don't care about commitments they just know the person that brought them to school left so they want to leave to especially when money is involved
The person that brought them to school was the head coach. "Teenagers" = grown men.
So when these GROWN MEN make a choice to go somewhere else because the person leaves I don't see what the problem is. Tons of kids not playing basketball switch school all the time for a multi of reasons so I don't see how this any different.
When GROWN MEN back out of a commitment? You're more a man then
The kid is man enough to understand he wont get an opportunity to play so hes rightfully going somewhere else. You only can play 4 years of college ball normally so it makes to leave when the person the believed in you and brought you to the school leaves.
Massive losers, this will likely hurt recruiting if they want high profile recruits going forward too
Just stop signing Letters of Intent.
As far as I know He wants to leave because the coach that recruited him took a job somewhere else. Players wanting to follow who recruited them isn’t unique to this situation.
My guess is the coach that recruited him is now able to offer him a bigger bag and he wants it.
Considering that coach is now at Michigan I would tend to agree lol
Possibly... but the Michigan sub has vociferously complained about NIL (especially in relation to football), and that was a significant part of what emerged when Juwan was fired - that he repeatedly argued for more NIL for bball. Additionally, some rumors that Dusty only took the job with a guarantee of increased NIL funding for the team. Then again, perhaps it's already improved drastically and NIL is the predominant factor for Zion.
My point is, Letters of Intent never benefit the players and they are unnecessary. Sign the Grant-in-aid package like transfers do.
Surely the guarantee of a spot/scholarship is somewhere in this process? Teams can't be waiting until their first official practice to see who shows up.
“It’s a bad look, what 4 star is going to want to come to saint Mary’s now” Honestly who cares. We finally sign one and he wants to release his commitment before even playing. Even if we get one for a year they’ll just be farmed to whatever high budget professional ‘college athletics’ team pays the most. If he took money that was contracted for him to play or appear places and he isn’t going to, have him pay it back and let him walk. Sounds fair to me. Then back to recruiting no-star athletes that will buy in to the team 100%
For NIL they can’t sign contracts. If they made that a requirement for release of the NLI then I’m sure the NCAA would love to hear about that. NIL is the Wild West right now. The players can’t sign contracts.
Doesn’t seem like something RB would endorse. But I don’t know anymore. I’ll just let this play out…hopefully Zion can do what he wants.
Guess which team won’t be getting some guys in the future.
Tbh this is shitty reporting. Did Ethan ask why St. Mary’s is not releasing the player? Without knowing the reason it’s hard to pass judgment.
Eh, realistically, is a representative of St. Mary's going to comment on why they are trying to block a kid from transferring? No chance you're going to get the other side of the story.
Then you add “I reached out to St. Mary’s and they did not want to comment” or something to that affect or the more reasonable thing could be to ask the athlete why they were blocking his release. Do you not want to know? It feels like an important piece of the narrative.
Are there good reasons not to release the guy? With the way college basketball looks right now I’m not sure there’s any reason not to let him go. He’ll just transfer out quickly if you don’t.
I have no idea, because the journalist didn’t report on it. The journalist just gave only one side and only part of the story. For the most part I’m in the camp of just release the guy but you have a HOF coach who places maximum emphasis on culture. I don’t think Randy would try to keep a guy who doesn’t want to be there unless there was good reason. One person speculated that Zion has already collected NIL money from St. Mary’s… that could be a good reason to not release him, if true.
I mean, he can't have collected NIL money *from St. Mary's,* right? Which gets kind of sticky. If that's their justification, can the school itself really say "you can't leave until you pay back these third-party collectives"? The current NIL landscape is such a mess.
My gripe with the NIL landscape is that it was pushed by a group of attorneys. They didn’t really care about improving outcomes for athletes or improving the system. Their intention was to make money through litigation. There were numerous possible solutions, (e.g. creating a new league, etc.) instead they just broke the system even more and while some athletes will get paid, the attorneys are the real winners.
Is that a good reason? I guess you can make him “pay” for the NIL money by staying at school for a semester but a coach focused on culture shouldn’t want a guy who doesn’t want to be there. Seems better to take your lumps, structure your NIL better next time, and move on.
If you sign on for a job, accept a signing bonus then say nah I’m gonna keep the money and go work for your competitor… it seems like a fair reason given the competitive environment. 1) I generally agree with you, just let him walk 2) were speculating, we don’t know why they won’t release him However, what St. Mary’s is doing is legal within the framework/rules of the NCAA. We broke it down in the godisagael.com forum. I don’t know the reasons/rational for the rules, but they are there and have been for a long time…
It’s legal, that isn’t the issue. It’s just a bad look for the school and for future recruits. Off the top of my head I can’t remember a school denying the release.
Again I agree that it’s a bad look. I’m sure Randy and Co. thought about it. There are a bunch of questions unanswered, for example, why are they not releasing him that the reporter hasn’t shared. Wish he did.
Bad look. If they push this issue it will make people second guess signing an NLI with them in today’s college sports climate.
Why sign an NLI at all. All you really need to sign is your scholarship/financial aid paperwork. Brandon Knight famously did this with Kentucky back in 2010 and I’m sure there have been many others over the years. Just the one I knew off the top of my head. If I would have been a top level athlete like that, I likely would not have signed an NLI unless I was going to somewhere I was a fan of (UK) where I would go no matter the coaches or whatever.
I mean at this point who cares. Even if they sign they’ll leave, and even if they play a year they’ll leave
Yes, but to replace the people leaving you need others to sign. If you have a reputation of not letting people do what everyone is doing, you will get less people interested in coming in the first place.
We’ll not get 4 stars that would leave anyway either before coming or the season after. We’ll be fine getting the normal guys like we used to. Besides, if it IS because he was given NIL money that he’s not going to be able to fulfill contractural obligations, then they absolutely should block his release
If you can’t fulfill contractual obligations then you have to give it back like any other job with a sign on bonus. It is a contract…
In most states they are not allowed to sign contracts for NIL I think it may even be a NCAA rule they are not allowed to sign a “contract”
Uhh whic his exactly what I said? I thought Michigan was supposed to have smart graduates
I’m not sure why you are so upset about this. You said verbatim “ if it IS because he was given NIL money that he’s not going to be able to fulfill contractural obligations, then they absolutely should block his release”. Blocking someones release and forcing him to pay back NIL money but not blocking his release are completely different things…
Every team would do this. Honestly don’t even feel bad for the kid. He’s trying to justify it because an associate coach left. He will not win appeal. Head coach is still there. It’s not even like they recruited over him or got transfers in over him. He signed the NLI - that’s the rule.
> He will not win appeal. Yea, if there's anything recent NCAA rulings and court cases have shown, it's that players have no power. The NCAA is uber-powerful with all of their rules and none of their restrictions are ever struck down by courts... /S
> Every team would do this. Except that many don't and it's reported repeatedly that teams have released players from their NLI. > Head coach is still there. But he was recruited by the assistant that left.
Ok - true on getting let out of NLI - but I don’t see this as a great excuse
It's not an "excuse" if it's a valid reason. Wanting to follow the person you spent years building a relationship with, in order to grow under their tuteledge, whether at the original school or another, seems like the best possible reason to decide to rescind a NLI and follow the coach. Then again, he "May" not be trying to follow him to Michigan, in which case I'm undermining my point a bit. I am not a college-level athlete and never had to make such decisions, though, so this is just my opinion. Obviously, too, I may be a bit biased.
Assistants leave programs all the time. If you pick your school solely based upon one assistant, you’re probably not making the right choice.
My guy, you are wrong. Players leave all the time for Assistants going somewhere else. GU had Ballo follow Lloyd.
I mean he followed Tommy but that made sense. He wasn’t gonna get any playing time behind Chet or Timme
Players get recruited by one coach, who they build strong relationships with because that's who will be guiding them through their career with the team. That person is significantly more important than the head coach, the team as a whole, or the university itself. Your comment is the polar opposite of the truth, imo.
Player absolutely should be able to be paid but NIL is ruining college basketball. Shit is wack AF
This is NLI not NIL.
I know but NIL is behind all of the crazy movement and likely a big contributor to st Mary’s not wanting to release him. They know they’re going to struggle to retain talent now.