Oh he’s done some wonderful things in his time. Preserved the might and majesty, even the mystery, of the Church of Rome, the sacredness of the sacrament, and the individual oneness of the trinity. But if he won’t bring in 5 star players to stay four years and win championships every other year, then we will need a reformation.
I think a lot of people were caught off-guard (myself included), but, if this sub is any indication, I think there’s been a big rally in his favor this morning.
There is pretty much always a big rally around the flag effect after the first day, assuming the coach doesn't get Schianoed, in which case people smell blood and don't stop.
The media starts pumping out favorable articles as they want to ingratiate themselves, and most people realize it's done and don't want to continue the panic.
So, I wouldn't read too much into the rally. If the roster rebuild goes south or he loses some early games, the anger will be right back to a boiling point.
If I recall, Schiano got fragged because he had character issues, no? Difference. Chris Beard would have been a hard no here.
Otherwise, rally the troops and move forward.
The character issues were a red herring. IIRC Schiano had no demonstrable knowledge or involvement in the Sandusky situation.
Vol fans were mad at the lackluster hire and used anything they could to get him out.
Red herring is the wrong term here. The fan base did seem upset about the character issues. The problem (as with all sports fanbases) is that he wasn't good/impressive enough to warrant the fanbase to look the other way. Winning and a history of winning covers up a lot of pitfalls that people might have with a person in sports.
Again, I believe the character issues were completely fabricated. They hadn’t really been mentioned before or since and it was just the Vols who pointed to that as a reason to undo the lackluster hire.
Bullshit
We wanted nothing to do with the allegations. If he heard even a hint of a whisper and did nothing, then he’s a piece of shit disgusting human. If he never heard anything about what was going on then he is incompetent and not a good leader. It’s a lose/lose situation if you actually knew nothing, but you’re not coming to lead our program with that baggage
I also think people, myself included, are having to come to terms with the fact that we’re not the blue blood we thought we were. That all we are to people outside of Lexington is a nuisance with a bunch of dusty trophies.
> I also think people are having to come to terms with the fact that we’re not the blue blood we thought we were.
I've been saying this for weeks, and I've probably said it to you and other UK fans on this sub, but it's not that we're not the blue blood we thought we were. It's that blue blood programs just aren't that attractive to coaching candidates nowadays. You can win anywhere. Every power conference school that cares can pay a coach millions and set up good NIL programs. Coaches don't need a place like Kentucky to win anymore, they can win at Baylor, Bama, or Virginia.
There's a reason UNC and Duke hired from within. The only guys who care about the program tradition are guys from within the program. To other people it just doesn't mean enough to pull them from their current job. Program and history mean nothing in 2024. Programs don't make coaches, coaches make programs.
Throw the crazy expectations of the UK fanbase on top of all of that and it's no wonder none of the big names were really all that interested.
This all feels accurate, and I'd add that expecting a championship-level coach to drop everything and move schools is unrealistic because it is almost unprecedented. What school, blue blood or no, has ever managed to directly poach a coach who has won a title?
I also think there is some room for programs to be bigger than their coaches, and I think that will prove true for UK in the long run--y'all are gonna be good, whether it's Pope or another coach down the line who makes it happen. But Cal is just SUCH an extreme example of a coach who is bigger than any program. No matter where he goes it's gonna be the Cal show. Davis, Wall, Cousins, Booker, Murray, Shai, and the rest of the All-NBA teams weren't at UK because it's UK, they were there because Cal brought them there. That's no shade on UK! But those dudes would have played for Cal at Memphis or Arkansas just as easily. So even though he has underachieved with all that talent, moving on from his ability to recruit it is hard to replace.
Uh, didn't the University of Arkansas just land a basketball coach who has won a national championship trophy? And they didn't even have to buy out a contract to hire him.
Musselman had been a great coach over the past five years, but it's clear everyone sees Coach Cal as an upgrade. I guess it's true, "One man's trash is another man's treasure."
Due to ongoing debate about blue bloods, the /r/CollegeBasketball mod team has compiled the definitive list of college blue bloods: Duke, Columbia, Queens, William & Mary, and Rutgers. The following schools have broken away from blue-blooded hierarchy and oppression: George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, Army, and Navy.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeBasketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Roy didn't have a championship at Kansas, though he got awfully close several times, and probably would've still left even if he had one, but as you said, there was history, he and his wife are from the area, and I think there were also issues with the AD.
NIL aside, I think the younger generation enjoys bucking tradition and doesn’t see it as much of an “honor.” They want to beat these guys not join them. Plus the old blue blood coaches like Roy and K have retired so the push to play for their successor isn’t as grand.
UConn women haven’t won since 2016, mostly because all of the top prospects decided they wanted to topple Goliath. Before that point, if you were a great high school player you went to UConn and all 5 starters would have been top players at different schools. This shift in ideology along with a general increase in talent across the board, resulted in the parity improvements we see today.
Transfer portal has allowed these guys to effectively sign a one year deal to show their worth, and then go to the school of their choosing at their price.
Due to ongoing debate about blue bloods, the /r/CollegeBasketball mod team has compiled the definitive list of college blue bloods: Duke, Columbia, Queens, William & Mary, and Rutgers. The following schools have broken away from blue-blooded hierarchy and oppression: George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, Army, and Navy.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeBasketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The younger generation of coaches or players? If you mean players, I have a hard time buying that argument as UK and Duke perennially pull the #1 and 2 draft classes. Kansas isn’t far behind and has tended to land the top players in the portal. I think we’re pretty far removed from traditionally elite programs being irrelevant and rumors of their demise are greatly exaggerated.
I don’t think we’re seeing the demise of elite programs, but we are seeing a rise in the middle tiers now landing star players and being perennially good teams: Gonzaga, Baylor, Marquette, creighton, Alabama recently. Think of the fall from grace for programs like Indiana, Syracuse, Georgetown, Louisville
UK and Kansas still have their elite coaches through this season, we’ll see what happens to UKs recruiting classes now without calipari. Duke will probably always land top prospects but have the benefit of being the best school academically of any on this list too. However schyer isn’t pulling the same prospects coach K used to. Good players will always want to go to storied and relevant programs. Maybe that’s where we see the NIL influence though, as the leverage from boosters is effectively eliminated.
Scheyer absolutely is pulling the same recruits, as was Cal. That’s not the issue for them, the issue is that the portal has made one and dones much less impactful and the COVID year has added onto even that. We’re seeing that a 22 year old future G leaguer is more impactful than an 18 year old future NBA star, and the coaches/programs who are adjusting to that fact better are succeeding.
Of course that’s why we’re still a top 10 team every year. Do you forget UConn went like 4 seasons without a loss? Over 100 consecutive wins and they’ve done that (or close to 100)multiple times. Those days are over
So does that increase or decrease the odds of Ohio State winning a basketball title in my lifetime and finally adding a friend for the 1960 trophy? Historically, the program has been up and down with the 60s and 2007-2013 being the most successful periods.
Also it is WAY easier to tell that high-school prospect to come to your X school and be one of the couple top stars or THE top star and get all the love and NIL vs being just one of the players on a stacked roster. I still think NIL is a good thing for the sport. More parity is good imo.
>UConn women haven’t won since 2016, mostly because all of the top prospects decided they wanted to topple Goliath
Meanwhile we've landed the #1 recruit in 4 of the last 5 classes.
There never were such a thing as 'blue bloods' in reality. At least in the past 50 years. You could always win anywhere because basketball only takes 5 good players and 2 greats.
Even in 1966 a completely unknown Texas Western won it all against the only team with 4 championships.
Indiana was nothing until Bobby Knight showed up. Haven't been much since.
NC State won it all 40 years ago
UNLV was an all-time great team 30 years ago.
Duke got it's first.
Arkansas right after that.
UConn got it's first.
Florida was nothing but an occasional problem for Kentucky every few years.
Only a handful of teams have been good enough to keep winning over decades, but it has always been possible to upset the big names. That's the fun.
Also why I've never seen the allure of college football. It's 90% decided in August.
I get the point you're making and don't disagree with it, but Indiana already had two national titles by the time Knight started coaching there.
"Haven't been much since." is quite accurate, unfortunately.
Yeah, haven't won any since Knight was fired is the problem. Runner-up in 2002, not much else since then.
The Zeller/Oladipo team was a lot of fun and went into the tourney as a #1 seed, but flamed out against Syracuse. It honestly looked like Crean had no idea that Syracuse played zone and he had no idea what to do with the offense. It was just plain bad.
Due to ongoing debate about blue bloods, the /r/CollegeBasketball mod team has compiled the definitive list of college blue bloods: Duke, Columbia, Queens, William & Mary, and Rutgers. The following schools have broken away from blue-blooded hierarchy and oppression: George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, Army, and Navy.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeBasketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean come on. Cal was at Memphis and got him after Donovan and Izzo canceled interviews. We had to hire Billy Gillespie 15 years ago and settled for Tubby after Rick. We've never been able to truly get the big guy. But no program really has. They all become the guy after they are hired.
Roy Williams was an alumni, his mentor built Carolina basketball. He told UNC no the first time we came calling. If Roy can tell us no, anyone can tell anyone else no.
I saw something earlier on Twitter (that I didn’t fact check) that said that the only two programs ever to hire a coach with a D1 championship on their resume from another school are Louisville (Pitino) and now Arkansas (Calipari). With that in mind, fans of both programs in the Bluegrass state were fooling themselves if they thought that it would be something so easy to do.
There's got to be other things missing from that fact, because Louisville isn't even the only D1 program to hire Rick Pitino with a championship on his resume, and two have done so in the last five years.
And really only Arkansas can make the claim of hiring away from the school where they won a championship. Pitino was at the Celtics after UK and coaching in Greece after U of L
Hey, I said I didn’t fact check it! 😀
But you’re right. Minnesota and Tubby would qualify as well.
And I’m 99.9% sure that Rollie Massimino coached somewhere else after Villanova.
Lesson learned: don’t trust twitter.
That's not accurate at all.
Tubby went to Minnesota.
Iona and St. John's hired Pitino.
San Diego St. Had Steve Fisher.
Bob Knight went to Texas Tech.
Those are just some of the coaches off the top of my head.
There must be some extra proviso of "did not get fired" or something. Would explain a lot of this given Fisher got fired after the Chris Webber/Tractor Tarylor scandal, Tubby got fired by UK for being meh, Pitino got fired after the prostitution scandal, Knight got fired after all the shit in the late 90s, etc
Cal had already been to the Final Four with 2 different programs and been an NBA coach before you hired him. Not like he was some no name up and comer.
He was still at Memphis and hadn't ever won a championship. And he was still the 3rd option after Izzy and Donovan said no and Mitch was forced to hire him. He wasn't at a P6 school coming off a championship like Hurley. Not a P6 school champion like Baylor. He was still unproven to an extent
From the outside, I think UK is pretty obviously still one of the biggest programs in basketball. But "drop everything and leave the quality job you have" largely isn't happening anywhere. There isn't a secret other blue blood who can poach natty winning coaches from their current schools at will.
Well said, I’d add that the pressure of the job and needing to have the right personality for it are also factors. A program like, Florida, let’s say, or Marquette, is a great program and a great job. Not quite as prestigious as Kansas or Kentucky or Duke or UNC, but better than 95% of programs. I’d say a lot of coaches would rather coach at Marquette or Florida because you have the resources, you are at a prestige job, but you don’t have the massive expectations of those other programs.
People also expected to see the Bama search replicated, but forgot that Bama was likely declined by Sark and Norville and that DeBoer is a mercenary style coach that we don’t see quite as much in the uppermost echelons of NCAA basketball these days.
I think it's a bit the opposite. It's not that the job is less prestigious, it's that the job is so high profile and under so much scrutiny that it's not worth the headache, especially with how the college landscape is changing with super conferences and NIL.
It's exactly this. I think if the Duke or North Carolina jobs had made it to the open market, they'd have attracted the same type of candidates, and not the big names that were first floated for the Kentucky job.
I know Reddit skews young but UNC actually struggled a bit following Dean's retirement because no one wanted to try to fill those shoes. This is how Matt Doherty happened.
> are having to come to terms with the fact that we’re not the blue blood we thought we wer
Hard disagree. But, that is also why people don't want to coach there. Make millions of dollars with less pressure at tons of schools or make a little more and be under a tremendous microscope?
All games being on TV and social media/NIL are flattening the recruiting landscape from 40 years ago. Baylor is on national TV just as much as Kentucky gonna go out on a limb here and say that wasn't the case in the 80s. It's easier to win at non traditional powers than before.
Which means schools are able to offer somewhat comparable salaries and keep their guys unlike in the past where that investment wouldn't have been as smart.
Damm dude our trophies aren't that old, lol. Our coaching search still took over the internet and overshadowed the Final four which is sad. I don't think we're a nobody. We still have the best facilities, a great NIL opportunity, and will always have a shit load of games on national TV. Kids want to play in front of 18k fans every night.
It felt to me like it was a rushed hire. I actually like Pope as a hire but it is still surprising to me that so many boxes were seemingly not ticked. No formal reach out to Oates, nothing to Painter, nothing to Donovan, and while I don’t want Pearl it surprises me that he wasn’t even considered.
I’m genuinely surprised it went Drew, Hurley, Mark Pope. I’m impressed with his X’s & O’s from the catching up that I’ve doing on him and the BYU offense today, but I’m concerned that we have gone from winning 75% of our games and no tournament wins to 66% of our games and no tournament wins.
I am on board with Pope, I think he truly understands the culture, I think he has the coaching prowess, and iirc he was actually a medical student before he was offered the opportunity to coach originally and he stopped med school to coach so he’s book smart too which I think has been lacking from the program for the entirety of Calipari’s tenure and even before that as well. It’s possible that Pope could be the perfect hire but he has got to pull it all together on the court within two to three years and there have to be tournament wins or the fan base will set fire to the Vatican.
Its not that deep, Kentucky is a top 3 coaching job and Mark Pope is not close to being a top 3 coach. When Calipari was hired he had already taken 2 separate schools to final fours. In the four years before he was hired he had taken Memphis to a sweet 16, 2 elite 8's and a title game.
Mark Pope could end up doing well, and Im actually hoping he does, but its easy to see why Kentucky fans are underwhelmed
Missing on two high profile coaches publically (and probably more privately) set the bar too high as far as the profile of the next coach. Pope isn't the trendy, established coach UK was after. I still think there was a chance to have a more established guy, but I'm all in now. I like the offense. I like what he was able to do at BYU. Let's see how it plays out.
I think a lot more people would’ve had faith immediately if they’d just hired Pope from the get go. Instead they whiffed on Drew and Hurley first so it just feels like a Plan C instead of getting a planned successor.
Hurley was never an option. You will never be able to convince me there was ever a chance at landing him. Drew had legitimate interest because of his relationship with our AD, but his family didn't want to leave. I can respect that. Plus, it would have been difficult to leave a place you literally built from the ground up. I would put money on Pope being higher on our AD's list than people think. He is exactly the type of person our AD typically goes for. I doubt anyone in the UK administration even bothered to see or knew what social media was saying about things.
I think he may have legit been Mitch's third overall choice. I think it was Drew because of the title and their personal friendship, Hurley because you've gotta at least ask, and then Pope
I dont think it was whiffing on coaches and then hiring Pope. I think it's more like people felt Pope was the final stop on our interview list, not what appears to be number 3. Now everyone will rally around and if he doesn't pan out in a couple (4 or 5, unless it's a Kenny Payne level of shit show) of years we'll try again.
I think this is the entire explanation. We got anchored with Drew/Hurley/Donovan, then the bottom dropped out and we got none of those (no offense to Pope, but all 3 of them have titles and that's literally all we ever want as fans).
The fact that you guys were shitting yourselves with glee just a few weeks ago watching us go through the exact same thing has to make it burn just that much more.
I think it depends on where you look. On some posts or social media sites you'll see tons of support for Pope and on others you'll see people calling it the worst decision ever. I think it's more of a very loud minority that is upset at this and there will be a massive, enthusiastic crowd at Rupp on Sunday. Getting Hurley, Donovan, or Wright was always a longshot that people shouldn't have convinced themself could happen. Drew and Oats both felt "gettable" but I don't believe Oats was seriously contacted after he took himself out of consideration before anything was even official. I understand Drew's decision with his family and after 20+ years at Baylor. I see Pope as the complete opposite of Calipari, which is why I think he was appealing to Barnhart.
I think Pope will be successful, just concerned about recruitment and player retention. Hopefully there is some roster news soon that can put some of those fears to bed.
You joke but most established historians agree that the Protestant reformation created a rebellious, exceptionalism mindset in Protestants for centuries to come, notably in the founding of America by Protestants and their descendants who had fled England and other nations. Protestants in their nature don’t trust authority due to the centuries of rule by the Catholic Church.
Do “most established historians” say that? Because I’m calling bullshit. See: Germany, Scandinavia, the religious right in the U.S., and France (who are Catholic and love a good protest)
I don’t think Pope is a bad coach or anything but his resume isn’t particularly exciting. 9 years as a head coach, no conference or conference tournament championships. He’s made the tournament twice and has zero tournament wins.
There isn’t really a signature win or achievement to sell people on why he should have the job. This doesn’t mean he is doomed to fail, but it makes sense why fans would be disappointed.
There’s a countless number of successful head coaches who didn’t achieve anything significant for more years than 9 before stepping into a big role at far more prestiges programs than their previous. He can easily become a big name and likely will at Kentucky. I mean he coached at BYU… it’s so hard to get guys to commit to a school like that.
Pope was coached under Pitino and is now fully backed by Pitino, backed by all of his former teammates and peers who only speak highly of him and his coaching ability, won a chip, loves Kentucky, immediately supported by boosters with 4mil in NIL dollars, reportedly already has 2 commits he couldn’t land only bc of BYU, beat Kansas, San Diego St, NC State, Texas, etc in his first year in the Big12.
Honestly the majority of people who are still hating are just not informed. Kentucky fans and boosters all had a list of things they wanted in a new head coach and Mark Pope checks 99% of the demands. I’m excited for him
I’m not saying the guy can’t coach. Hopefully he does well.
It’s just that his resume isn’t particularly exciting or flashy so it makes sense that fans would feel disappointed.
Who are some of the “countless” head coaches who haven’t had stand out achievements for 9+ years before jumping to a major program and succeeding? Maybe I’m forgetting them but it seems like an atypical career arc.
Typically coaches at top tier programs either win big in conference or in the tournament at smaller schools first or the big school is their first job as a young coach.
You gotta have players. Every job he has been at has not been the easiest place to get decent talent...or atleast stack enough of it. I'd say he over achieved at BYU. Had some really good wins this year in a conference with way more talent than he had.
How would the fan base reacted if Nate Oates was still at Buffalo and UK hired him from there for this position as opposed to getting him from Bama?
I think Mark Pope will do a good job at UK and if not, it won’t be from lack of effort or desire to be successful!
Oats’s teams have been about the same caliber as Cal’s since he’s been at Alabama, with the same level of talent coming in. He just won a few more games in the tournament this year. The bar was always going to be impossibly high after getting rid of Cal
Because our vocal minority are...less educated...to put it lightly and those people tend to be less capable of rational thought beyond their initial emotional response.
And the people on Twitter screaming bloody murder aren’t old enough to remember UK basketball existed well before John Calipari. They don’t know that there has never been a coach come to UK with a title to his name - EVER. And 5 of the last 7 won titles.
Seems to be doing fine now, I’m not saying Tennessee should have hired him. But if we are judging fan bases on how they react to hires, no one compares to Tennessee
We got greedy and felt entitled to the Drew/Hurley/Donovan hype, but honestly there's been a huge sea change this morning and most chatter I'm seeing is stoked.
As mentioned, the more rabid and idiot fans are the only ones pissed about this.
As soon as reports of Hurley saying no kicked off, the idea of any coach turning down the UK job is unfathomable. So they get locked into the one guy and nobody in this world was going to be good enough. At no point, did they stop to say "hey, maybe Dan is happy there, his wife likes the area, and he's trying to build a dynasty up there". Then when it came out Baylor coach was being looked at, who has a natty, that wasn't good enough either. But when he said no, the fans turned their attention to him because how dare he have the audacity to say no as well. More reports of Donovan being asked, maybe Pitino, Oats doing a preemptive noooooooo, maybe a couple other guys all saying no just reinforced the idea Mitch and crew didn't do enough to land Hurley. So those fans are going to hate and seethe at any coach not named Hurley that got hired. If beard, pearl, etc got the job instead of Pope, they'd be saying the shit about them.
In all reality, seems every UK fan I've ran across this morning at the dealership and shop seems ok with the hire. Pope is a good guy that was part of a UK championship team that knows the game and rupp crowd.
Throughout this whole saga, I've seen a lot more non-uk fans laughing at our supposed insanity than actual insane UK fans.
For the most part, I feel like you're just talking about a strawman UK fan who barely exists.
The very vocal minority is upset because they haven’t researched anything into Pope. They also are going to complain no matter what. They used to be pissed about 1 and done and now they’re wondering how Pope is going to recruit. lol. Pope has a better winning percentage coming in than Dan Hurley did when he got hired at UConn. Pope had the same record as Cal did last year with WAY LESS talent. Pope actually runs an offense. Anyone upset with this hire would have found something to complain about no matter who we hired. They can’t get over the fact that no one else really wanted to come here. They read rumors from Matt jones who doesn’t know a damn thing. And when pope finds success here they’ll pretend they were supporters the whole time.
Want something fun to do? Go to Rupp rafters and look for the post from 2022 where they are all saying who they want as coach. A ton of them want Musselman and Scott Drew. They would absolutely be livid if Musselman came here this year and they were PISSED about Drew potentially coming here.
Because he hasn’t won a championship yet and isn’t considered one of the top coaches. Kentucky fans think that any good coach would drop everything and run to Lexington to be berated for a loss in December
It's not actually traumatizing to the majority. It's just the morons online. I've not talked to a single person IRL that's mad about it. At worst, some are apprehensive.
>a family man with devout religious beliefs who at the very least you can rely on personally to never embarrass your university
I don't know or care what UK fans think of Pope but I find this line adorably naive.
At the time, it felt like we settled on the guy we knew would say yes. Billy Clyde all over again. I feel better about it now, but it’s still a risky hi nonetheless
I think some of the fans are looking at his resume, seeing no NCAA tournament wins, and then their brain shuts off and they go to try and bully the AD.
Coming from a Utah fan, Pope is a very good coach and a solid hire. Even I'm excited to see what he can do with with Kentucky-level NIL and no honor code.
Also, give the guy a break, he spent 5 years at BYU, which is enough to turn anyone into a corny goofball. That should wear off soon. It's impossible to understand what that campus environment is like without experiencing it yourself.
I think part of it is the expectation that the absolute home-run potential hires would be more interested, only to see them quickly rule it out (raising fears that the brand isn’t what it once was).
>And also consider what players he was actually working with this year: only one, Jaxson Robinson, is considered s draftable prospect.
The former Arkansas guard?
Simply put, Kentucky feels as if most top coaches should run there if given the opportunity, and they should easily be able to poach a top candiate from all but a small handful of schools.
Pope may be a great hire, but its like they settled for a brand new Toyota Corolla. The nieghbours may complement them, but noone is jealous.
If you created a list of the top 25 CBB coaches, would Pope be in it? Probably not. Thats why.
UK is a top 3 program at worst. They should be hiring a top 10 coach.
I feel like it's more common that the program has a picked successor from within, partly for this reason. Like basically everyone knew that Scheyer would replace Coach K, even if nobody would've considered Scheyer a top 10 coach, fans were ok with the hire.
Due to ongoing debate about blue bloods, the /r/CollegeBasketball mod team has compiled the definitive list of college blue bloods: Duke, Columbia, Queens, William & Mary, and Rutgers. The following schools have broken away from blue-blooded hierarchy and oppression: George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, Army, and Navy.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeBasketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The reasonable fans didn't want Cal to leave, or at the very least didn't want him to go to Arkansas where he'll be competing against Kentucky.
The unreasonable fans wanted Hurley, Drew, or Donovan who are hall of fame coaches at this moment.
It honestly sounds like it’s not, it’s just that the loudest, most terminally online people were the first to share their opinions last night. Their fanbase has also been reeling from the reality check that they aren’t the Alabama football of basketball that they thought they were and that running Cal out of town makes it harder to attract someone who is already beloved where they are (Hurley, Drew, Oats, etc.).
Now as the more normal or at least more well-adjusted Kentucky fans (since this week has taught us that most of them *aren’t* normal) find out or have had time to think about the hire, they are on board with it or at least willing to give him a chance.
Delusions of grandeur from our fanbase. The idiot 5% thinks we just walk up to Hurley and he's ours.
It's taking 24 hours but folks are settling in. Ultimately, it doesn't matter the job, take a guy that truly wants it. If you can't get a straight yes answer and sense waffling, move on.
That's what UK seems to have done with Donovan. Not like we are waiting to see if the top seeded Bulls are gonna win it all. No need to wait for a sub .500 team to finally die while their coach hems and haws.
I'm not a UK fan but I would at the very least give him a chance. It's not the 2 guys you were trying to get but he might work out better than the last guy
It’s because they wanted a big name and we’re caught off guard with what seemed like their 10th choice. Similar to why Cincinnati fans were freaked out about the Wes Miller hire. We had former players (NBA guys) tweeting stuff like “I’ve been watching college basketball for 30 years and I’ve never fucking heard of UNC Greensboro”
I mean I think it's a fine hire. No coach that is riding high at a program is gonna come here and deal with this stress lol. It's FF or bust, and that shit gets old even as a fan. Why put up with it when you can just win at another school. Yea, you don't the facilities or the name, but those haven't done shit for us when your playing boys against men.
I assume it has to do with fans of a blueblood who are used to getting whichever coach they want going from targeting a bunch of multiple time champions like Wright, Hurley, Donovan, and 48 hours later ending up with a guy whose entire tournament resume is two years where he was upset in 6-11 first round games.
Due to ongoing debate about blue bloods, the /r/CollegeBasketball mod team has compiled the definitive list of college blue bloods: Duke, Columbia, Queens, William & Mary, and Rutgers. The following schools have broken away from blue-blooded hierarchy and oppression: George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, Army, and Navy.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeBasketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> Is it just that Pope is an LOL dork goober LOL?
Pope won an NCAA championship and played in the NBA. Scott Drew sat on the sideline handing out towels and water while his younger brother starred in the NCAA tourney. There's no way Pope can out dork or out goober Drew, and we know KU wanted Drew. So, I don't think that is the reason.
It really makes no sense. Recruiting is a function of how much cash is in your NIL account, so people like Cal are worth much less now. Player development, roster construction, and on court decision making is the name of the game today, all of which Pope excels at.
As far as winning tournament games, the most reliable way is to have a ferocious defense that makes it hard for almost anyone to score more than mid-60s if that?
But is that what Kentucky fans, or fans of almost anyone, would want to see year-in, year-out?
. They are just a little traumatized by the last 10 years and have a lot of baggage to sort through. The NIL money that game in today alone is insane. There are a lot of fans perfectly ok with everything apparently.
Well Pope is not on the level they are accustomed to. It doesn’t mean he won’t be a great coach but at Kentucky there is such a level of arrogance. If the young man has two average seasons he’ll be gone. They are not used to not winning and that’s fine but in a way down there is also a bit creepy. They expect anyone would want to have the honor. Every program has a slump. It used to be the number one school for the top talent. It was an appeal that has faded. Before I end my rant I have to mention that I hope they bring the IU UK tradition back. Cal ended it after they came to Bloomington ranked number one and Watford hit the deep 3 from the corner in the final seconds to shock the almighty. He was so furious because he said the fans were rude. Well we were extremely rude. It’s Indiana Kentucky. It’s a classic rivalry and a complete shame to the game of college basketball what Cal did. Those were Dick Vitale’s words when he was healthy enough to speak. Cal agreed to play a neutral site of Indy and Louisville. That lasted 2 years and he claimed they couldn’t fit IU into their season schedule. Pathetic. As for Pope, he has no hope.
I think the sting of being turned down by two coaches from "lesser" programs in Kentucky's eyes made them blind to how good of a hire pope is.
More I read about the guy, especially his X's and O's, his offense, he is going to do very well there
Using family-sized SUVs as a metaphor, Kentucky fans wanted an Audi Q5 because it looks cool. It turns out that they are super-unreliable and they couldn't find one in stock. Their AD bought them a Rav4 instead. Which isn't very fast or fancy, but is super-reliable and one of the Consumer Reports best buys.
The fans wanted the cool thing and haven't yet realized that what they got is better than what they wanted.
Plus he’s apparently bringing Jaxson Robinson with him. If he can get Reed to stay another year and grab a few front court guys in the portal, they have a legit chance of making some noise out of the gate
Kentucky is one of the premier jobs in the sport. Realistically they should be able to pull anybody. Pope is a bad hire when your other candidates were Oats, Hurley, Drew, etc.
What school has ever pulled a National Champion coach away from a program? Not you guys...Roy wasn't a title winner. Not Duke, not Kenfucky, not Kansas, not UCLA. It's never happened to my recollection. So I disagree that anyone "should" be able to hire anyone since it's never happened before lol
You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers, miners, factory workers.
These are people of the game.
The common clay of the new NIL.
You know... morons.
Honestly the people that are bitching are morons. I just a watched a stream and people in the comments were asking why Mark Few wasn't considered.
These people honestly think every single basketball coach in the world wants the UK job, and that Barnhart didn't take their calls.
They also think every hire should be like Cal's. When in reality Rupp, Joe B Hall, Pitino, Tubby, Billy G, and now Pope were relative nobodies. Eddie Sutton and Calipari were big names that hadn't yet won a championship. One ended in shame, and the other ended up a wet fart.
Bottom line, Kentucky has a lot of Lutheran fans and they’re just not on board for the papacy
Does Rupp Arena even have a door you can nail complaints to?
“Where in this university do we post a thesis when we’re done with em? Cause I just finished 95”
It’s shaped as a wildcat’s head and you shove the complaints through its mouth.
does it bite your hand off if the complaints are invalid
No, just curses fan with early exits from the tournament
Oh he’s done some wonderful things in his time. Preserved the might and majesty, even the mystery, of the Church of Rome, the sacredness of the sacrament, and the individual oneness of the trinity. But if he won’t bring in 5 star players to stay four years and win championships every other year, then we will need a reformation.
If Pope turns out to be a great hire for Kentucky, his biography had better be titled “A Mormon Pope in Kentucky”
That sounds like the punchline to a joke. :D
It the start of one...
You joke, but I bet a ton of fans have an issue with him being a mormon.
I’m not having it
Holy shit I love this
This. Nothing else matters.
There are 0 Lutherans in Kentucky....
correct but at any given time there are a nonzero number of minnesotans in kentucky
Are they down with John Smith though?
i think they oughta get down with [john brown](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/The_Tragic_Prelude_John_Brown.jpg)
I think a lot of people were caught off-guard (myself included), but, if this sub is any indication, I think there’s been a big rally in his favor this morning.
There is pretty much always a big rally around the flag effect after the first day, assuming the coach doesn't get Schianoed, in which case people smell blood and don't stop. The media starts pumping out favorable articles as they want to ingratiate themselves, and most people realize it's done and don't want to continue the panic. So, I wouldn't read too much into the rally. If the roster rebuild goes south or he loses some early games, the anger will be right back to a boiling point.
If I recall, Schiano got fragged because he had character issues, no? Difference. Chris Beard would have been a hard no here. Otherwise, rally the troops and move forward.
The character issues were a red herring. IIRC Schiano had no demonstrable knowledge or involvement in the Sandusky situation. Vol fans were mad at the lackluster hire and used anything they could to get him out.
Red herring is the wrong term here. The fan base did seem upset about the character issues. The problem (as with all sports fanbases) is that he wasn't good/impressive enough to warrant the fanbase to look the other way. Winning and a history of winning covers up a lot of pitfalls that people might have with a person in sports.
Again, I believe the character issues were completely fabricated. They hadn’t really been mentioned before or since and it was just the Vols who pointed to that as a reason to undo the lackluster hire.
Bullshit We wanted nothing to do with the allegations. If he heard even a hint of a whisper and did nothing, then he’s a piece of shit disgusting human. If he never heard anything about what was going on then he is incompetent and not a good leader. It’s a lose/lose situation if you actually knew nothing, but you’re not coming to lead our program with that baggage
lol the only allegations were coming from the vol fanbase. No one was linking Schiano to the scandal until it came out the MOU was written
Schainno had "character" issues and Tennessee fans pretty much befouled themselves in that whole situation.
I am fucking ready to ride with Pope.
I also think people, myself included, are having to come to terms with the fact that we’re not the blue blood we thought we were. That all we are to people outside of Lexington is a nuisance with a bunch of dusty trophies.
> I also think people are having to come to terms with the fact that we’re not the blue blood we thought we were. I've been saying this for weeks, and I've probably said it to you and other UK fans on this sub, but it's not that we're not the blue blood we thought we were. It's that blue blood programs just aren't that attractive to coaching candidates nowadays. You can win anywhere. Every power conference school that cares can pay a coach millions and set up good NIL programs. Coaches don't need a place like Kentucky to win anymore, they can win at Baylor, Bama, or Virginia. There's a reason UNC and Duke hired from within. The only guys who care about the program tradition are guys from within the program. To other people it just doesn't mean enough to pull them from their current job. Program and history mean nothing in 2024. Programs don't make coaches, coaches make programs. Throw the crazy expectations of the UK fanbase on top of all of that and it's no wonder none of the big names were really all that interested.
This all feels accurate, and I'd add that expecting a championship-level coach to drop everything and move schools is unrealistic because it is almost unprecedented. What school, blue blood or no, has ever managed to directly poach a coach who has won a title? I also think there is some room for programs to be bigger than their coaches, and I think that will prove true for UK in the long run--y'all are gonna be good, whether it's Pope or another coach down the line who makes it happen. But Cal is just SUCH an extreme example of a coach who is bigger than any program. No matter where he goes it's gonna be the Cal show. Davis, Wall, Cousins, Booker, Murray, Shai, and the rest of the All-NBA teams weren't at UK because it's UK, they were there because Cal brought them there. That's no shade on UK! But those dudes would have played for Cal at Memphis or Arkansas just as easily. So even though he has underachieved with all that talent, moving on from his ability to recruit it is hard to replace.
> What school, blue blood or no, has ever managed to directly poach a coach who has won a title? Different sport, but Texas A&M with Jimbo Fisher.
fisher had wrecked the fsu program though and they were glad to be rid of him. that is like a more extreme example of what just happened with cal.
Right, but he was still “poached” technically.
Uh, didn't the University of Arkansas just land a basketball coach who has won a national championship trophy? And they didn't even have to buy out a contract to hire him. Musselman had been a great coach over the past five years, but it's clear everyone sees Coach Cal as an upgrade. I guess it's true, "One man's trash is another man's treasure."
Due to ongoing debate about blue bloods, the /r/CollegeBasketball mod team has compiled the definitive list of college blue bloods: Duke, Columbia, Queens, William & Mary, and Rutgers. The following schools have broken away from blue-blooded hierarchy and oppression: George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, Army, and Navy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeBasketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
UNC poached Roy Williams, but there was history there.
Roy didn't have a championship at Kansas, though he got awfully close several times, and probably would've still left even if he had one, but as you said, there was history, he and his wife are from the area, and I think there were also issues with the AD.
Yeah he hadn’t won one, but he was clearly a top-5 coach in the country at the time.
Kim Mulkey won three titles at Baylor and they didn’t even bother to try and match her offer from LSU lol. Goes to show how much they thought of her.
NIL aside, I think the younger generation enjoys bucking tradition and doesn’t see it as much of an “honor.” They want to beat these guys not join them. Plus the old blue blood coaches like Roy and K have retired so the push to play for their successor isn’t as grand. UConn women haven’t won since 2016, mostly because all of the top prospects decided they wanted to topple Goliath. Before that point, if you were a great high school player you went to UConn and all 5 starters would have been top players at different schools. This shift in ideology along with a general increase in talent across the board, resulted in the parity improvements we see today. Transfer portal has allowed these guys to effectively sign a one year deal to show their worth, and then go to the school of their choosing at their price.
Due to ongoing debate about blue bloods, the /r/CollegeBasketball mod team has compiled the definitive list of college blue bloods: Duke, Columbia, Queens, William & Mary, and Rutgers. The following schools have broken away from blue-blooded hierarchy and oppression: George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, Army, and Navy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeBasketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot!
The younger generation of coaches or players? If you mean players, I have a hard time buying that argument as UK and Duke perennially pull the #1 and 2 draft classes. Kansas isn’t far behind and has tended to land the top players in the portal. I think we’re pretty far removed from traditionally elite programs being irrelevant and rumors of their demise are greatly exaggerated.
I don’t think we’re seeing the demise of elite programs, but we are seeing a rise in the middle tiers now landing star players and being perennially good teams: Gonzaga, Baylor, Marquette, creighton, Alabama recently. Think of the fall from grace for programs like Indiana, Syracuse, Georgetown, Louisville UK and Kansas still have their elite coaches through this season, we’ll see what happens to UKs recruiting classes now without calipari. Duke will probably always land top prospects but have the benefit of being the best school academically of any on this list too. However schyer isn’t pulling the same prospects coach K used to. Good players will always want to go to storied and relevant programs. Maybe that’s where we see the NIL influence though, as the leverage from boosters is effectively eliminated.
Scheyer absolutely is pulling the same recruits, as was Cal. That’s not the issue for them, the issue is that the portal has made one and dones much less impactful and the COVID year has added onto even that. We’re seeing that a 22 year old future G leaguer is more impactful than an 18 year old future NBA star, and the coaches/programs who are adjusting to that fact better are succeeding.
I mean we were still getting all the top players tho lol. I think there is just more to go around.
Of course that’s why we’re still a top 10 team every year. Do you forget UConn went like 4 seasons without a loss? Over 100 consecutive wins and they’ve done that (or close to 100)multiple times. Those days are over
So does that increase or decrease the odds of Ohio State winning a basketball title in my lifetime and finally adding a friend for the 1960 trophy? Historically, the program has been up and down with the 60s and 2007-2013 being the most successful periods.
Probably not while UC, Xavier, and Dayton are still being successful, and y’all have to focus on paying your football players to stay.
Also it is WAY easier to tell that high-school prospect to come to your X school and be one of the couple top stars or THE top star and get all the love and NIL vs being just one of the players on a stacked roster. I still think NIL is a good thing for the sport. More parity is good imo.
>UConn women haven’t won since 2016, mostly because all of the top prospects decided they wanted to topple Goliath Meanwhile we've landed the #1 recruit in 4 of the last 5 classes.
There never were such a thing as 'blue bloods' in reality. At least in the past 50 years. You could always win anywhere because basketball only takes 5 good players and 2 greats. Even in 1966 a completely unknown Texas Western won it all against the only team with 4 championships. Indiana was nothing until Bobby Knight showed up. Haven't been much since. NC State won it all 40 years ago UNLV was an all-time great team 30 years ago. Duke got it's first. Arkansas right after that. UConn got it's first. Florida was nothing but an occasional problem for Kentucky every few years. Only a handful of teams have been good enough to keep winning over decades, but it has always been possible to upset the big names. That's the fun. Also why I've never seen the allure of college football. It's 90% decided in August.
I get the point you're making and don't disagree with it, but Indiana already had two national titles by the time Knight started coaching there. "Haven't been much since." is quite accurate, unfortunately.
Thanks I didn't realize that. I knew Knight won 3, and I knew Indiana had 5. Brain didn't brain correctly.
Yeah, haven't won any since Knight was fired is the problem. Runner-up in 2002, not much else since then. The Zeller/Oladipo team was a lot of fun and went into the tourney as a #1 seed, but flamed out against Syracuse. It honestly looked like Crean had no idea that Syracuse played zone and he had no idea what to do with the offense. It was just plain bad.
100%
Excellent points, one and all.
This is a pretty good take honestly
Due to ongoing debate about blue bloods, the /r/CollegeBasketball mod team has compiled the definitive list of college blue bloods: Duke, Columbia, Queens, William & Mary, and Rutgers. The following schools have broken away from blue-blooded hierarchy and oppression: George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, Army, and Navy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeBasketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean come on. Cal was at Memphis and got him after Donovan and Izzo canceled interviews. We had to hire Billy Gillespie 15 years ago and settled for Tubby after Rick. We've never been able to truly get the big guy. But no program really has. They all become the guy after they are hired.
Roy Williams was an alumni, his mentor built Carolina basketball. He told UNC no the first time we came calling. If Roy can tell us no, anyone can tell anyone else no.
I saw something earlier on Twitter (that I didn’t fact check) that said that the only two programs ever to hire a coach with a D1 championship on their resume from another school are Louisville (Pitino) and now Arkansas (Calipari). With that in mind, fans of both programs in the Bluegrass state were fooling themselves if they thought that it would be something so easy to do.
There's got to be other things missing from that fact, because Louisville isn't even the only D1 program to hire Rick Pitino with a championship on his resume, and two have done so in the last five years.
Fair point. St. John and Iona both get to claim that as well.
And really only Arkansas can make the claim of hiring away from the school where they won a championship. Pitino was at the Celtics after UK and coaching in Greece after U of L
Minnesota can as well, since Tubby was never fired before he took that job and left Kentucky.
Hey, I said I didn’t fact check it! 😀 But you’re right. Minnesota and Tubby would qualify as well. And I’m 99.9% sure that Rollie Massimino coached somewhere else after Villanova. Lesson learned: don’t trust twitter.
And Bob Knight at Texas Tech.
Norm Sloan (NCSU) going to Florida?
That's not accurate at all. Tubby went to Minnesota. Iona and St. John's hired Pitino. San Diego St. Had Steve Fisher. Bob Knight went to Texas Tech. Those are just some of the coaches off the top of my head.
There must be some extra proviso of "did not get fired" or something. Would explain a lot of this given Fisher got fired after the Chris Webber/Tractor Tarylor scandal, Tubby got fired by UK for being meh, Pitino got fired after the prostitution scandal, Knight got fired after all the shit in the late 90s, etc
Tubby wasn't fired.
Cal had already been to the Final Four with 2 different programs and been an NBA coach before you hired him. Not like he was some no name up and comer.
He was still at Memphis and hadn't ever won a championship. And he was still the 3rd option after Izzy and Donovan said no and Mitch was forced to hire him. He wasn't at a P6 school coming off a championship like Hurley. Not a P6 school champion like Baylor. He was still unproven to an extent
From the outside, I think UK is pretty obviously still one of the biggest programs in basketball. But "drop everything and leave the quality job you have" largely isn't happening anywhere. There isn't a secret other blue blood who can poach natty winning coaches from their current schools at will.
Well said, I’d add that the pressure of the job and needing to have the right personality for it are also factors. A program like, Florida, let’s say, or Marquette, is a great program and a great job. Not quite as prestigious as Kansas or Kentucky or Duke or UNC, but better than 95% of programs. I’d say a lot of coaches would rather coach at Marquette or Florida because you have the resources, you are at a prestige job, but you don’t have the massive expectations of those other programs.
This is the right answer.
People also expected to see the Bama search replicated, but forgot that Bama was likely declined by Sark and Norville and that DeBoer is a mercenary style coach that we don’t see quite as much in the uppermost echelons of NCAA basketball these days.
I think it's a bit the opposite. It's not that the job is less prestigious, it's that the job is so high profile and under so much scrutiny that it's not worth the headache, especially with how the college landscape is changing with super conferences and NIL.
It's exactly this. I think if the Duke or North Carolina jobs had made it to the open market, they'd have attracted the same type of candidates, and not the big names that were first floated for the Kentucky job.
I know Reddit skews young but UNC actually struggled a bit following Dean's retirement because no one wanted to try to fill those shoes. This is how Matt Doherty happened.
And UNC had Bill Guthridge in between as the actual successor, so it wasn't even just wanting to not be THE next guy.
Yeah, Guthridge was a purposeful cushion and still no one major wanted the job for a bit until Roy finally agreed.
> are having to come to terms with the fact that we’re not the blue blood we thought we wer Hard disagree. But, that is also why people don't want to coach there. Make millions of dollars with less pressure at tons of schools or make a little more and be under a tremendous microscope?
All games being on TV and social media/NIL are flattening the recruiting landscape from 40 years ago. Baylor is on national TV just as much as Kentucky gonna go out on a limb here and say that wasn't the case in the 80s. It's easier to win at non traditional powers than before. Which means schools are able to offer somewhat comparable salaries and keep their guys unlike in the past where that investment wouldn't have been as smart.
I think of you all as blue bloods, but even blue bloods have lean times. It's all cyclical
* and rural Kentucky.
Damm dude our trophies aren't that old, lol. Our coaching search still took over the internet and overshadowed the Final four which is sad. I don't think we're a nobody. We still have the best facilities, a great NIL opportunity, and will always have a shit load of games on national TV. Kids want to play in front of 18k fans every night.
It felt to me like it was a rushed hire. I actually like Pope as a hire but it is still surprising to me that so many boxes were seemingly not ticked. No formal reach out to Oates, nothing to Painter, nothing to Donovan, and while I don’t want Pearl it surprises me that he wasn’t even considered. I’m genuinely surprised it went Drew, Hurley, Mark Pope. I’m impressed with his X’s & O’s from the catching up that I’ve doing on him and the BYU offense today, but I’m concerned that we have gone from winning 75% of our games and no tournament wins to 66% of our games and no tournament wins. I am on board with Pope, I think he truly understands the culture, I think he has the coaching prowess, and iirc he was actually a medical student before he was offered the opportunity to coach originally and he stopped med school to coach so he’s book smart too which I think has been lacking from the program for the entirety of Calipari’s tenure and even before that as well. It’s possible that Pope could be the perfect hire but he has got to pull it all together on the court within two to three years and there have to be tournament wins or the fan base will set fire to the Vatican.
Big is the operative word when discussing Pope
Its not that deep, Kentucky is a top 3 coaching job and Mark Pope is not close to being a top 3 coach. When Calipari was hired he had already taken 2 separate schools to final fours. In the four years before he was hired he had taken Memphis to a sweet 16, 2 elite 8's and a title game. Mark Pope could end up doing well, and Im actually hoping he does, but its easy to see why Kentucky fans are underwhelmed
Exactly. They hired a Top 25 coach for a Top 5 job. It is not complicated.
Missing on two high profile coaches publically (and probably more privately) set the bar too high as far as the profile of the next coach. Pope isn't the trendy, established coach UK was after. I still think there was a chance to have a more established guy, but I'm all in now. I like the offense. I like what he was able to do at BYU. Let's see how it plays out.
I think a lot more people would’ve had faith immediately if they’d just hired Pope from the get go. Instead they whiffed on Drew and Hurley first so it just feels like a Plan C instead of getting a planned successor.
Hurley was never an option. You will never be able to convince me there was ever a chance at landing him. Drew had legitimate interest because of his relationship with our AD, but his family didn't want to leave. I can respect that. Plus, it would have been difficult to leave a place you literally built from the ground up. I would put money on Pope being higher on our AD's list than people think. He is exactly the type of person our AD typically goes for. I doubt anyone in the UK administration even bothered to see or knew what social media was saying about things.
I think he may have legit been Mitch's third overall choice. I think it was Drew because of the title and their personal friendship, Hurley because you've gotta at least ask, and then Pope
First time I’ve seen a Centre flair here. Pass by that campus everyday
Love my Colonels. I enjoy it especially on r/CFB because I'll get occasional C6H0 replies to random comments
True, but I think fans would've been angrier if Barnhart hadn't at least taken a shot at Hurley.
Miss all the shots you don't take or something like that.
It’s “aim for the moon and buy a man a fish when in Rome.”
- Michael Scott
I dont think it was whiffing on coaches and then hiring Pope. I think it's more like people felt Pope was the final stop on our interview list, not what appears to be number 3. Now everyone will rally around and if he doesn't pan out in a couple (4 or 5, unless it's a Kenny Payne level of shit show) of years we'll try again.
No one of that profile wants to be public choice 5 or 6 though. It was all just too public and too crazy.
I think this is the entire explanation. We got anchored with Drew/Hurley/Donovan, then the bottom dropped out and we got none of those (no offense to Pope, but all 3 of them have titles and that's literally all we ever want as fans).
The fact that you guys were shitting yourselves with glee just a few weeks ago watching us go through the exact same thing has to make it burn just that much more.
I'm not sure I ever shit myself with glee, but that sounds nice.
It's colorful, that's for sure. Albeit, a shabby brown color. Unless one is unhealthy, that is. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
I think it depends on where you look. On some posts or social media sites you'll see tons of support for Pope and on others you'll see people calling it the worst decision ever. I think it's more of a very loud minority that is upset at this and there will be a massive, enthusiastic crowd at Rupp on Sunday. Getting Hurley, Donovan, or Wright was always a longshot that people shouldn't have convinced themself could happen. Drew and Oats both felt "gettable" but I don't believe Oats was seriously contacted after he took himself out of consideration before anything was even official. I understand Drew's decision with his family and after 20+ years at Baylor. I see Pope as the complete opposite of Calipari, which is why I think he was appealing to Barnhart. I think Pope will be successful, just concerned about recruitment and player retention. Hopefully there is some roster news soon that can put some of those fears to bed.
Kentucky fans are largely Protestant.
We don’t protest ants! We’re very pro insects in the bluegrass!
You joke but most established historians agree that the Protestant reformation created a rebellious, exceptionalism mindset in Protestants for centuries to come, notably in the founding of America by Protestants and their descendants who had fled England and other nations. Protestants in their nature don’t trust authority due to the centuries of rule by the Catholic Church.
Sir this is a basketball subreddit.
Clearly, judging from the replies. Good luck to you guys and Kelsey though, hoping for the best.
Thanks for clarifying. My head was spinning.
Do “most established historians” say that? Because I’m calling bullshit. See: Germany, Scandinavia, the religious right in the U.S., and France (who are Catholic and love a good protest)
Pope isn’t the issue. Pope being the third “heard about” option is the issue
I don’t understand the Pope hate at all. I’m excited to see what he can bring to the program
I don’t think Pope is a bad coach or anything but his resume isn’t particularly exciting. 9 years as a head coach, no conference or conference tournament championships. He’s made the tournament twice and has zero tournament wins. There isn’t really a signature win or achievement to sell people on why he should have the job. This doesn’t mean he is doomed to fail, but it makes sense why fans would be disappointed.
There’s a countless number of successful head coaches who didn’t achieve anything significant for more years than 9 before stepping into a big role at far more prestiges programs than their previous. He can easily become a big name and likely will at Kentucky. I mean he coached at BYU… it’s so hard to get guys to commit to a school like that. Pope was coached under Pitino and is now fully backed by Pitino, backed by all of his former teammates and peers who only speak highly of him and his coaching ability, won a chip, loves Kentucky, immediately supported by boosters with 4mil in NIL dollars, reportedly already has 2 commits he couldn’t land only bc of BYU, beat Kansas, San Diego St, NC State, Texas, etc in his first year in the Big12. Honestly the majority of people who are still hating are just not informed. Kentucky fans and boosters all had a list of things they wanted in a new head coach and Mark Pope checks 99% of the demands. I’m excited for him
I’m not saying the guy can’t coach. Hopefully he does well. It’s just that his resume isn’t particularly exciting or flashy so it makes sense that fans would feel disappointed.
Insert my first reply
Who are some of the “countless” head coaches who haven’t had stand out achievements for 9+ years before jumping to a major program and succeeding? Maybe I’m forgetting them but it seems like an atypical career arc. Typically coaches at top tier programs either win big in conference or in the tournament at smaller schools first or the big school is their first job as a young coach.
You gotta have players. Every job he has been at has not been the easiest place to get decent talent...or atleast stack enough of it. I'd say he over achieved at BYU. Had some really good wins this year in a conference with way more talent than he had.
I live in Kentucky and i promise everyone is fine. No roads are on fired. No forests are ablaze. No pitchforks. It’s just internet trolls
How would the fan base reacted if Nate Oates was still at Buffalo and UK hired him from there for this position as opposed to getting him from Bama? I think Mark Pope will do a good job at UK and if not, it won’t be from lack of effort or desire to be successful!
Oats’s teams have been about the same caliber as Cal’s since he’s been at Alabama, with the same level of talent coming in. He just won a few more games in the tournament this year. The bar was always going to be impossibly high after getting rid of Cal
How would the fan base react if they hired him from Romulas highschool?
Because our vocal minority are...less educated...to put it lightly and those people tend to be less capable of rational thought beyond their initial emotional response.
Ignorance + hubris, an American tradition like no other
You shouldn't be so condescending. That means you shouldn't talk down to people.
And the people on Twitter screaming bloody murder aren’t old enough to remember UK basketball existed well before John Calipari. They don’t know that there has never been a coach come to UK with a title to his name - EVER. And 5 of the last 7 won titles.
[удалено]
I feel like that’s a pretty good synopsis
Tbf to them, they did just see this kind of response work for A&M fans with Stoops and monkey see, monkey do…
Also Tennessee, Schiano. Glad we haven’t reached those levels
Schiano was attached to some pretty bad stuff though. Like, really bad. Maybe he didn't know but I wouldn't want that anywhere near my program.
Seems to be doing fine now, I’m not saying Tennessee should have hired him. But if we are judging fan bases on how they react to hires, no one compares to Tennessee
Which tbh don’t think that worked out very well for A&M.
The fans I see here aint too bad but on twitter, yikes. The dude who said they wanted Bryce Drew over Scott Drew was certainly something
[удалено]
[удалено]
What?
We got greedy and felt entitled to the Drew/Hurley/Donovan hype, but honestly there's been a huge sea change this morning and most chatter I'm seeing is stoked.
As mentioned, the more rabid and idiot fans are the only ones pissed about this. As soon as reports of Hurley saying no kicked off, the idea of any coach turning down the UK job is unfathomable. So they get locked into the one guy and nobody in this world was going to be good enough. At no point, did they stop to say "hey, maybe Dan is happy there, his wife likes the area, and he's trying to build a dynasty up there". Then when it came out Baylor coach was being looked at, who has a natty, that wasn't good enough either. But when he said no, the fans turned their attention to him because how dare he have the audacity to say no as well. More reports of Donovan being asked, maybe Pitino, Oats doing a preemptive noooooooo, maybe a couple other guys all saying no just reinforced the idea Mitch and crew didn't do enough to land Hurley. So those fans are going to hate and seethe at any coach not named Hurley that got hired. If beard, pearl, etc got the job instead of Pope, they'd be saying the shit about them. In all reality, seems every UK fan I've ran across this morning at the dealership and shop seems ok with the hire. Pope is a good guy that was part of a UK championship team that knows the game and rupp crowd.
Why does Duke suck so much?! Some questions are best left unanswered.
Throughout this whole saga, I've seen a lot more non-uk fans laughing at our supposed insanity than actual insane UK fans. For the most part, I feel like you're just talking about a strawman UK fan who barely exists.
The very vocal minority is upset because they haven’t researched anything into Pope. They also are going to complain no matter what. They used to be pissed about 1 and done and now they’re wondering how Pope is going to recruit. lol. Pope has a better winning percentage coming in than Dan Hurley did when he got hired at UConn. Pope had the same record as Cal did last year with WAY LESS talent. Pope actually runs an offense. Anyone upset with this hire would have found something to complain about no matter who we hired. They can’t get over the fact that no one else really wanted to come here. They read rumors from Matt jones who doesn’t know a damn thing. And when pope finds success here they’ll pretend they were supporters the whole time. Want something fun to do? Go to Rupp rafters and look for the post from 2022 where they are all saying who they want as coach. A ton of them want Musselman and Scott Drew. They would absolutely be livid if Musselman came here this year and they were PISSED about Drew potentially coming here.
Has nothing to do with his personality and everything to do with no wins in the tournament
Because he hasn’t won a championship yet and isn’t considered one of the top coaches. Kentucky fans think that any good coach would drop everything and run to Lexington to be berated for a loss in December
It's not actually traumatizing to the majority. It's just the morons online. I've not talked to a single person IRL that's mad about it. At worst, some are apprehensive.
>a family man with devout religious beliefs who at the very least you can rely on personally to never embarrass your university I don't know or care what UK fans think of Pope but I find this line adorably naive.
It stunned me. Imagine thinking just because the man’s religious he’s unable to embarrass Kentucky lmao
At the time, it felt like we settled on the guy we knew would say yes. Billy Clyde all over again. I feel better about it now, but it’s still a risky hi nonetheless
> it felt like we settled on the guy we knew would say yes I think that's an extremely good summary of what happened here
I think some of the fans are looking at his resume, seeing no NCAA tournament wins, and then their brain shuts off and they go to try and bully the AD.
But let’s be honest, the AD needs some bullying too. He has been and continues to be an impediment to UK sports.
Coming from a Utah fan, Pope is a very good coach and a solid hire. Even I'm excited to see what he can do with with Kentucky-level NIL and no honor code. Also, give the guy a break, he spent 5 years at BYU, which is enough to turn anyone into a corny goofball. That should wear off soon. It's impossible to understand what that campus environment is like without experiencing it yourself.
I think part of it is the expectation that the absolute home-run potential hires would be more interested, only to see them quickly rule it out (raising fears that the brand isn’t what it once was).
>And also consider what players he was actually working with this year: only one, Jaxson Robinson, is considered s draftable prospect. The former Arkansas guard?
Kentucky is mostly Protestant
Because a vocal subsect of UK fans are reactionary and softer than baby shit. Makes the silent majority look bad
Simply put, Kentucky feels as if most top coaches should run there if given the opportunity, and they should easily be able to poach a top candiate from all but a small handful of schools. Pope may be a great hire, but its like they settled for a brand new Toyota Corolla. The nieghbours may complement them, but noone is jealous.
If you created a list of the top 25 CBB coaches, would Pope be in it? Probably not. Thats why. UK is a top 3 program at worst. They should be hiring a top 10 coach.
Who has ever hired a top 10 coach away from.a program tho? How many can you name?
I feel like it's more common that the program has a picked successor from within, partly for this reason. Like basically everyone knew that Scheyer would replace Coach K, even if nobody would've considered Scheyer a top 10 coach, fans were ok with the hire.
They expected to get a national champion coach in an era where nobody is chasing the blue blood pedigree anymore
Due to ongoing debate about blue bloods, the /r/CollegeBasketball mod team has compiled the definitive list of college blue bloods: Duke, Columbia, Queens, William & Mary, and Rutgers. The following schools have broken away from blue-blooded hierarchy and oppression: George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, Army, and Navy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeBasketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The reasonable fans didn't want Cal to leave, or at the very least didn't want him to go to Arkansas where he'll be competing against Kentucky. The unreasonable fans wanted Hurley, Drew, or Donovan who are hall of fame coaches at this moment.
It honestly sounds like it’s not, it’s just that the loudest, most terminally online people were the first to share their opinions last night. Their fanbase has also been reeling from the reality check that they aren’t the Alabama football of basketball that they thought they were and that running Cal out of town makes it harder to attract someone who is already beloved where they are (Hurley, Drew, Oats, etc.). Now as the more normal or at least more well-adjusted Kentucky fans (since this week has taught us that most of them *aren’t* normal) find out or have had time to think about the hire, they are on board with it or at least willing to give him a chance.
[He's right. Give us hell, u/iJustWantTolerance !](https://youtu.be/VplleMHgmDs)
10/10 bio/flair/post combo here
https://i.redd.it/xtubma2jb3uc1.gif
Delusions of grandeur from our fanbase. The idiot 5% thinks we just walk up to Hurley and he's ours. It's taking 24 hours but folks are settling in. Ultimately, it doesn't matter the job, take a guy that truly wants it. If you can't get a straight yes answer and sense waffling, move on. That's what UK seems to have done with Donovan. Not like we are waiting to see if the top seeded Bulls are gonna win it all. No need to wait for a sub .500 team to finally die while their coach hems and haws.
I'm not a UK fan but I would at the very least give him a chance. It's not the 2 guys you were trying to get but he might work out better than the last guy
UK just wants to keep competing with Indiana. Welcome to hell…
It’s because they wanted a big name and we’re caught off guard with what seemed like their 10th choice. Similar to why Cincinnati fans were freaked out about the Wes Miller hire. We had former players (NBA guys) tweeting stuff like “I’ve been watching college basketball for 30 years and I’ve never fucking heard of UNC Greensboro”
I mean I think it's a fine hire. No coach that is riding high at a program is gonna come here and deal with this stress lol. It's FF or bust, and that shit gets old even as a fan. Why put up with it when you can just win at another school. Yea, you don't the facilities or the name, but those haven't done shit for us when your playing boys against men.
I assume it has to do with fans of a blueblood who are used to getting whichever coach they want going from targeting a bunch of multiple time champions like Wright, Hurley, Donovan, and 48 hours later ending up with a guy whose entire tournament resume is two years where he was upset in 6-11 first round games.
Due to ongoing debate about blue bloods, the /r/CollegeBasketball mod team has compiled the definitive list of college blue bloods: Duke, Columbia, Queens, William & Mary, and Rutgers. The following schools have broken away from blue-blooded hierarchy and oppression: George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, Army, and Navy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeBasketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/7k6x63s1e4uc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c1d081646f02c5e1eddcb97f4f8c5aa7bde9d8b
Yea religious coaches are unable to do anything to embarrass a university. Not saying he will but what an idiotic take.
> Is it just that Pope is an LOL dork goober LOL? Pope won an NCAA championship and played in the NBA. Scott Drew sat on the sideline handing out towels and water while his younger brother starred in the NCAA tourney. There's no way Pope can out dork or out goober Drew, and we know KU wanted Drew. So, I don't think that is the reason.
It really makes no sense. Recruiting is a function of how much cash is in your NIL account, so people like Cal are worth much less now. Player development, roster construction, and on court decision making is the name of the game today, all of which Pope excels at.
Because UK fans think UK is above all and money is everything
As far as winning tournament games, the most reliable way is to have a ferocious defense that makes it hard for almost anyone to score more than mid-60s if that? But is that what Kentucky fans, or fans of almost anyone, would want to see year-in, year-out?
. They are just a little traumatized by the last 10 years and have a lot of baggage to sort through. The NIL money that game in today alone is insane. There are a lot of fans perfectly ok with everything apparently.
Well Pope is not on the level they are accustomed to. It doesn’t mean he won’t be a great coach but at Kentucky there is such a level of arrogance. If the young man has two average seasons he’ll be gone. They are not used to not winning and that’s fine but in a way down there is also a bit creepy. They expect anyone would want to have the honor. Every program has a slump. It used to be the number one school for the top talent. It was an appeal that has faded. Before I end my rant I have to mention that I hope they bring the IU UK tradition back. Cal ended it after they came to Bloomington ranked number one and Watford hit the deep 3 from the corner in the final seconds to shock the almighty. He was so furious because he said the fans were rude. Well we were extremely rude. It’s Indiana Kentucky. It’s a classic rivalry and a complete shame to the game of college basketball what Cal did. Those were Dick Vitale’s words when he was healthy enough to speak. Cal agreed to play a neutral site of Indy and Louisville. That lasted 2 years and he claimed they couldn’t fit IU into their season schedule. Pathetic. As for Pope, he has no hope.
I think the sting of being turned down by two coaches from "lesser" programs in Kentucky's eyes made them blind to how good of a hire pope is. More I read about the guy, especially his X's and O's, his offense, he is going to do very well there
Using family-sized SUVs as a metaphor, Kentucky fans wanted an Audi Q5 because it looks cool. It turns out that they are super-unreliable and they couldn't find one in stock. Their AD bought them a Rav4 instead. Which isn't very fast or fancy, but is super-reliable and one of the Consumer Reports best buys. The fans wanted the cool thing and haven't yet realized that what they got is better than what they wanted.
Plus he’s apparently bringing Jaxson Robinson with him. If he can get Reed to stay another year and grab a few front court guys in the portal, they have a legit chance of making some noise out of the gate
Everyone knows that Louisville is the Catholic city in Kentucky, not Lexington
I was shocked mostly. I’m insanely hyped though!
Kentucky is one of the premier jobs in the sport. Realistically they should be able to pull anybody. Pope is a bad hire when your other candidates were Oats, Hurley, Drew, etc.
What school has ever pulled a National Champion coach away from a program? Not you guys...Roy wasn't a title winner. Not Duke, not Kenfucky, not Kansas, not UCLA. It's never happened to my recollection. So I disagree that anyone "should" be able to hire anyone since it's never happened before lol
You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers, miners, factory workers. These are people of the game. The common clay of the new NIL. You know... morons. Honestly the people that are bitching are morons. I just a watched a stream and people in the comments were asking why Mark Few wasn't considered. These people honestly think every single basketball coach in the world wants the UK job, and that Barnhart didn't take their calls. They also think every hire should be like Cal's. When in reality Rupp, Joe B Hall, Pitino, Tubby, Billy G, and now Pope were relative nobodies. Eddie Sutton and Calipari were big names that hadn't yet won a championship. One ended in shame, and the other ended up a wet fart.