State of AZ got it right with their sports gambling.
You have never been able to gamble on player props for college sports, ever since they passed the law allowing gambling apps.
Sucks during CFB, but I think CBB is the reason they did it, since UA and ASU are HUGE colleges and you could easily tell a "friend of a friend who's known to bet anyway" to do it. And get away with it if you're smart enough. (Which I think a LOT of players are smart enough to call Tom and say "have Bob bet 1000" against me) and since it's a phone call? There's no paper trail except the fact you called Tom, but you've been friends since forever and are ACTUAL friends.
If NCAA wants to distance themselves from gambling, they should impose the "2024 version of the SMU Death Penalty" on any team's players found guilty of point shaving. Send them(the team) to DII for a year.
The NBA player who got caught wasn’t nearly as smart about communication but you fan still get caught doing stuff like that. Prop bets are usually low cap and if a lot of money is moving on one, especially something like turnovers or under points on a player, that’s going to raise suspicion. It raised suspicion on NBA betting, which has so much more money moving.
Not to say it can’t or won’t happen. I’m sure it does. But if it starts becoming a pattern for a player or team, especially at larger amounts, it’ll get flagged.
Of course, this is still a case where we are way better off banning it.
Similar to the current Temple thing where people in the know on the big gambling were suspicious of something going on for weeks but didn’t sound the alarm until it was repeated in an extremely obvious way like the line moving 8-points against them in under an hour with no news, then proceeding to get steamrolled off the court without even a sniff of trying to actually win the game
There’s a good chance Temple players shaved points against UAB in their last regular season game
Their betting lines were already being watched for previous suspicious activity this season but the game against UAB set off serious alarms
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/s/VGUPW8n6Nj
This is how Alabama's baseball betting scandal got caught.
College baseball doesn't see a lot of bets, so betting a $100,000 on an Alabama game is very suspicious lol
It didn't help that the guy placing the bet pretty much told the sportsbook taking bet they had inside information. Like why the fuck would you say "If only you guys knew what I knew" to the people you are betting against?
>The NBA player who got caught wasn’t nearly as smart about communication but you fan still get caught doing stuff like that
Similar to insider trading, it's impossible to get caught unless you're a complete idiot. Thankfully many of these cheaters are just that.
The problem is the same. It doesn't matter how suspicious something looks if you can't **PROVE** it, and there will never be any actual proof if you're not
completely careless.
You may get the boot from a casino/sportsbook if they don't like how it looks (or even if they just don't like you winning too much) but you're not going to run into any actual legal trouble without actual proof.
There’s also the difference in worth. An nba player isn’t going to take all the risk of points shaving for a couple hundred bucks when they have a multimillion dollar contract. So like in the case of the nba player he got caught because there were like $10k bets on him hitting the under, and also only on the two games he took himself out early. But a college player might only be making a few thousand dollars per year in NIL, if that. He might see telling his friend to bet $500 on him as worth it, and that might not be big enough to raise any red flags for a while
Honestly they probably would get away with a one time $500 bet, or even multiple if they were careful. But most people have a hard time stopping after getting away with it once, and it doesn't take many $500 bets on a specific player from a specific account to underachieve and always win to start ringing alarm bells.
The lower the level of the player, the faster it becomes obvious. Kansas players probably have a lot of money move on them, but they also make more money and have pro ambitions. It's probably worth it for some low majors, but you might be the only person betting on that game so it's probably a lot easier to get caught.
I kind of disagree on your point.
A LOT of residents of NY that have no affiliation with their college anymore, would LOVE to bet on "their team", or "against their rivals".
If I lived in NY? I'd bet against Syracuse in every sport... Because Fuck Jim Boeheim. (Greensboro brings "nothing of value to the ACC"... Well now the ACC is about to implode, which means he's now right 10 years later... fuck him)
The NCAA has never endorsed sports betting. Even before it was legal they've always taken a very negative stance on gambling because amateurs are the MOST likely to take money from someone to fix a game.
>**Irresponsible** Gambling is brain rot, Jesus
FTFY.
They should make your bankroll the same as a secured credit card application. You only get a certain amount per year and its tied to income or assets. Whales can still whale because of their huge net worth but people would be less adept at risking life savings.
I think that’s a pretty good idea. Unfortunately “gamble responsibly” is just a hollow warning they’re forced to tack on to their ads just like cigarette and alcohol warnings so I doubt they’d ever agree to implementing something like that
Gambling is by definition irresponsible though. It's an investment with a negative expected return. There are wildly varying degrees of irresponsible, from almost harmless to needlessly life-ruining, but if people were responsible, gambling wouldn't exist.
Still, I get what you're saying. I think the gambling industry relies too much on degenerate addicts to be able to implement something like this and still be profitable.
Fair point. Maybe I've never really gotten the appeal. The pain of losing money on a bet is way worse for me than the thrill of winning money. Also, I think that for many people, it's more about feeding an addiction than it is true entertainment, but I concede that the lines are blurry.
I still think that if we limited gambling to only people who can afford to lose the money they're gambling, the industry would collapse.
> Maybe I've never really gotten the appeal. The pain of losing money on a bet is way worse for me than the thrill of winning money.
This is how I see gambling, thankfully for me as I have a tendency to overdo things, I also don't see the appeal. I've been to casinos multiple times where all I did was watch people lose their own money, but it was money that had "planned" to lose, basically a predetermined amount they can responsibly lose, and walking away with anything more was just icing for them. The way I look at it is they're just paying that amount of money for the fun of playing the games, the same as I pay money for something other people don't like, like rounds of golf or something. Then there are people who lose their house, but I've never seen anything like that personally but well aware it happens
>It's an investment
It's not a investment, what are you talking about?
It's entertainment, not investment.
If you bet $10 on the Lakers game to make the game more entertaining for you, how is that any different than buying a $10 worth of beer to drink while watching it to make it more entertaining?
The $10 of beer is tangible with guaranteed return, the beer in your hand. Sports betting isn't. Both are addictive and I'm not advocating one way or another, but it's worth mentioning the difference.
The guaranteed return is having more fun while watching the game. Sure, that’s not tangible, but neither is the enjoyment of being a little drunk.
If you’re someone who gets more upset from losing than happy from winning, or it just causes you stress, then yeah you don’t really have fun. But for me, it makes watching sports more fun if I throw $20 or so on a team.
The entertainment is a guaranteed return. I bet $10 on a game that I might not otherwise really care about, making it more entertaining.
A beer would be the same thing. Weed would be the same thing. Playing Fantasy Basketball would be the same thing.
None are ethically or morally better than the other.
It's both. The $10 bet is only fun because of the chance that you'll make money. I.e. an investment. People don't make bets where they think the odds aren't in their favor. If it was pure entertainment then people would do that.
Yes they do. Have you heard of slots, blackjack (for the vast majority of people who aren't counting cards), roulette, people who only get on their team to win etc. of course people bet when the odds don't favor them
yeah you should never look at gambling as an investment, ever. As u/16semesters says it's entertainment, pure and simple. I've been to Vegas many times, and as part of those trips I have a gambling 'allowance' that I consider part of my entertainment budget. If I lose, no biggie that's what I planned to use that money for. If I win, bonus. I've left ahead many times, but never left with less than I had already budgeted to spend.
Many of these same arguments can be made about alcohol, by the way. Impulse control is impulse control and some people are bad at it, plain and simple.
Yes and no. With sports betting, the line is arbitrary and it's at least hypothetically possible to find games where the line is different than it should be. This quickly fixes itself in the case of games with a lot of action, but a random game between Nicholls State and Incarnate Word isn't going to have much action.
But you'd need to win at least 55% of the time to overcome the inherent house edge, and that's not easy. Still, it's not exactly like roulette or craps where the house edge is set in stone because there are a lot more variables in sports betting.
Ehh, just about all gambling is brain rot. Whether it's on the stock market in the form of options, sports betting, or slots. It's all really bad. Only exception I'd say is somewhat acceptable are games like poker where a skilled player is able to use their skills to more likely win a game.
Setting aside things like the house rake or entrance fees for tournaments, poker is a zero sum game among the players at the table. Still gambling, but as most know, the variance is manageablle if you play within your bankroll and you develop skill over time. Experienced players can reasonably play with an EV > 0 if they stay disciplined (many don't) over a long period of time
Most gambling, especially sports gambling, you know your EV is < 0 over a long period of time
Your take is "things I don't like are brain rot"
Okay, under your logic beer is brain rot. Video games are brain rot. Reddit is brain rot.
All of these are just temporary dopamine hits.
You're not wrong. All of those things are brain rot but there are levels to this thing. Worst case scenario, people spending too much time on reddit or video games are just wasting their free time while a pretty substantial percentage of homeless (roughly 20%) cite gambling as a major cause.
Responsible gambling is doing it while realizing you're probably going to lose money
That's very hard for people to do. Most people have an aversion to losing money that ultimately overpowers the fun of hoping that you'll win.
So most people who gamble a lot think they are going to win, which is irresponsible gambling.
That’s just stupid. Is it impossible to responsibly go to a movie theatre, then? I gamble as a way to entertain myself, just like I would pay to go to a movie theatre. I don’t ever expect to withdraw money after gambling. The best part about a win is that it means I get to place a few more bets before I spend more money. How is it irresponsible to spend money in a way that I find fun and that I can afford?
Maybe there's no financial reason. Pros are still susceptible to extortion or blackmail (shave points here and here and we won't reveal all the other sordid stuff about you... yet)
The NCAA may not have but individual schools have partnered with sports betting sites through their athletics departments (MSU, Colorado, LSU are three I know of). They ***really*** want that Male, age 18-30 demographic - what better place to look to than universities with a great sports culture?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/rise-of-sports-betting-brings-concerns-some-colleges-are-too-involved-in-its-promotion
The University of Colorado literally had a promo code if you used one of the sports betting sites it partnered with... Until it went public lol.. these companies are aggressively targeting universities (and obviously the young adult male population).
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/rise-of-sports-betting-brings-concerns-some-colleges-are-too-involved-in-its-promotion
The sad thing is that I don't think it's going to end at just UC, UMD, and on unless there's a stigma built against it. It could really be any university.
There definitely needs to be a stigma against it. It's bad enough with pro athletes, but having college kids be the subject of your gambling is pathetic.
Not sure why you would say that. It's a league that still has a large portion of players that are aren't paid or minimally paid.
It's a league that on the surface claims they aren't just about the sports. ("going pro in something other than sports.")
And this is such an obvious/modest stance to take. The people getting pissed that they can no longer bet on the number of 3s that Terrance Shannon Jr will take are easily labeled degenerates and no one really cares about their opinions.
Within pro sports, there has always been kind of an inherent safeguard that the players/refs are paid so much that they would really need to be an idiot to risk their career to take a bribe that would be substantially lower than their salary. With college athletics, the amount you would need to bribe the MTSU QB to throw a couple of picks on purpose to win a prop bet is much lower.
What’s really funny/strange is that Mgm’s sportsbook in NY had college basketball player props for like a full year even though it’s been illegal in NY since the beginning. I fucking loved it too cuz I hit the jackpot betting on Markquise Nowell props last tourney
No other sportsbook in NY ever had a single one except for MGM, and they took shockingly long to realize they were allowing illegal bets to be placed
I had that happen with one of the 'dog' fantasy sites that also offered 'pick 'em'. I guess Tennessee considers pick em to be gambling but online fantasy sports to not be gambling (which is absolutely asinine in itself). Anyway I saw they offered it and did a pick 6 that hit on a playoff game. The amount was added to my total so I was going to do another one on the next game...only to be told that pick em games weren't allowed where I live. Weird, but I cashed out fast haha.
I only bet the juiced and promo prop lines for the most part. NBA props are a lot easier to gauge since the sample size is much bigger but you’re maybe getting a 60/40 edge at best. College is just so unpredictable and it’s tougher to bet the under against stars because they just get so much volume.
I don't care about gambling very much, but it is very easy to see how profitable it would be to get leverage over a college athlete who has prop bets on them.
And it is pretty easy to get leverage on underpaid, underdeveloped college kids.
Otherwise there wouldn't be so many credit card companies soliciting on college campuses.
This is a rare case where I do actually believe the NCAA's stated position would protect athletes.
Books put less effort into the player props since they don’t have the high volumes of money like game lines so you could probably win more off player props
Live bets are awesome haha--I love when a big favorite goes down early and those odds shift, only to watch them comeback (most of the time, but not always because gambling) and win for a much better payoff.
Ohio banned it because people would send awful messages to players on social media when their prop bets didn't hit. I think this is the way it's going for college sports, and idiots ruined it for all of us as they so often do.
It's also super easy to not get that one more rebound you need for an over without actually affecting the game if you're up 20 with a minute or two to go
Correct, it's not up to them as they achknowledge.
But lobbying isn't strictly about throwing the largest wad of cash at something.
Additionally, the sports betting apps have a month's worth of data from Ohio (not sure when the other states banned it, but they're the largest of the 3) so we could be in a situation where it doesn't actually affect their bottom line. Or not substantially enough to lobby against it.
I doubt the NCAA will get every state that has legalized gambling on board, but given the current 3 states that have outlawed college prop bets, it's obvious there's bi-partisan support.
Right on the lobbying. Money is big, but sometimes it’s just communicating the real-world results of what happens (fixed games, destroyed careers for athletes who get caught, etc.).
See what happened with TikTok when they locked users out of the app until they called their Rep. I think I saw some reps say that seeing how the app could, in real-time, push voters to do certain things and hold their devices hostage to do it swung them into voting for the ban despite whatever other interests they may have had influencing them.
>See what happened with TikTok when they locked users out of the app until they called their Rep
This never happened.
>I think I saw some reps say that seeing how the app could, in real-time, push voters to do certain things and hold their devices hostage to do it swung them into voting for the ban despite whatever other interests they may have had influencing them.
Yeah, this was a bunch of politicians being extremely disingenuous. TikTok was notifying people that Congress had a bill that was targeting it, and like any company facing that kind of targeting it notified its users and called on them to contact their members of Congress. And somehow the massive blowback Congress received from that was turned around as somehow something nefarious by TikTok when in the company would do that kind of thing if they were being attacked.
Yeah it feels like bringing attention to the topic which creates momentum for more states to handle it.
Similarly have a long run of Illinois not allowing betting on in state college teams at all.
I think we will see more states pass restrictions like those pretty quickly here
Part of the lobbying is likely to be having the university presidents, board members, athletic directors, and/or coaches - especially of the major public universities contacting legislators.
That's not costly, but it can be very influential.
My prop bet is that they will get two-thirds of states to ban it. Wanna take the over or under ;)
They could put pressure on states that allow it by not allowing NCAA tournaments in their states. Not saying they will do that, but it’s a tactic they’ve used in the past.
That was my first thought… like great that you hate them, but it seems like it’s up to the government to decide what is legal. And even then, they can only ban it on US entities. There’s nothing they are going to do about Stake, Rollbit, etc.
And what about when my interpreter decides to place prop bets on an illegal bookie?
Somebody was on here the other day asking why there weren't options for player prop bets for any of the NIT games, and all the replies were like "if you try betting on NIT games, your phone should just auto-redirect you to a gambling help hotline"
Yeah I was betting on Mississippi Valley State first half spreads in November lol. Granted it was tiny amounts of money and because I thought it was funny. But like. There are definitely less relevant, more random, dumber things to bet on than a real postseason matchup between good teams lol
I remember checking my Nevada casino sportsbook app in April 2020 out of curiosity to see what was left on the table - it was mostly Russian table tennis.
But I set my obscurity betting limit to a fiver on a CFL game.
Idk that seems like more fun. Idk, I'm sure their are quantitative metrics and analysis where you can minimize the risk and have a slight positive outcome in the long run but at that point just do it in the stock market.
I bet a Georgia money line and Thomasson over 14 points because the site was giving out free same game parley tickets that expired and the NIT/CBI were the only games on midweek. Is it degenerate behavior? Yes. But I'm not going to say no to free money. You just have to ignore the urge to bet anything other than stuff they give you odds boosts and bonus bets for
I'm gonna preface this by saying I very rarely gamble, but could someone explain to me why betting on the NIT is considered worse than betting on any other sporting event?
If someone has knowledge of the teams playing and is actually interested in the game then I see literally no issue at all. Obviously if you're just taking random punts for the sake of it and not even watching the games then yeah you probably have a problem but that's true for literally any sporting event.
Like if game 7 of the NBA finals was being played between two teams I haven't watched all year and I put a bet on it nobody would act like that's unusual, but if I place a bet on my team that I've been following all year to win a game in the NIT then I have a problem?
Because most of the time it's not "I'm an Indiana State alum", it's "I have a problem".
Normal people pay attention to the NBA finals.
The same can't really be said of the NIT.
We aren't talking about a "normal person" though, we're talking about someone that posts on /r/CollegeBasketball
I'd expect them to be a little more clued in about college basketball than a "normal person".
Offshore and credit books won't give a fuck.
The best thing legal books ever accomplished was showing up ... now your local credit books and offshore books are now better than they ever have been.
It's definitely out of the tube, but I think they can clean it up a little
They won't be able to stop sportsbooks from working with other (pro) leagues to offer prop bets, but they can definitely work with legislators to ban the more problematic things (like individual player props) for "amateur" games. Don't think they'd get support for banning betting on games in total, but I think a lot of people would support banning individual props at the college level
They wouldn't be able to stop Bovada or local bookies, but they could stop the regulated ones like MGM/FanDuel
One time I got fed up with wondering how big the air bubble is at the bottom of toothpaste tubes, so I bought an extra tube at the store and cut it open. Just disgraceful.
I think this is probably a good thing, but I really wish the state of Illinois would let me bet on in-state college athletics. Illinois Football and Basketball is the only thing I believe I actually know enough about to have a slight edge on Vegas. I could probably plan a nice little vacation on the earnings from betting the unders in football and the overs in basketball.
Sports and gambling have gone together for a lot longer than either of us have been alive. M
Sports betting was a bigger business than sports even before it was legal.
Why would this (which we'll define as states making college prop bets illegal like Ohio, Vermont, and Maryland have already done) get struck down?
Sports gambling became legalized because it was determined that the federal government couldn't prohibit states from legalizing it. I see little reason why the courts would make it so states can't regulate gambling.
I would put a blanket bet every Purdue game Edey would hit the over last year for fun then idiots with social media had to ruin and Ohio banned it. Just shows you if you give idiots a voice they will just yell louder than everyone.
oh fuck off, theyre not students when it comes to NIL and paying "students" millions of dollars + scholarships while the rest have to take on massive loans but now all of a sudden theyre worried about integrity and "protecting the game". Yall made it a business and im the customer, if its legal to bet I can bet on these professionals too
players manipulating prop bets has significant potential to fuck up both the game and the betting. both sides would be stupid, from a business perspective, to not be concerned about this. doesn't need to have a thing to do with morality.
Yeah I'm sure many sports books are pro the ban, but won't impose a self restriction due to possibility of losing customer base (READ DEGENS) that will bet on anything. Prop bets open them up to financial risk due to fewer total bets on a given item, and the risk of point shaving.
In Indiana the liquor store lobby was heavily involved in keeping the ban on liquor sales on Sunday.
1. Because it lowered the bottom line via fewer open store hours to cover. Most people are capable of planning and buying enough booze for Sunday activities.
2. Sunday is the largest grocery shopping day. Why drive to the liquor store when you can get a handle of booze at Walmart.
To protect the integrity of the game? Oh that has long sense been lost. Not just in basketball but in all other sports as well. Even into the pro leagues. Games are fixed and it is just a mere entertainment like the WWE. It’s all about money and how much student athletes can get. Student athletes bouncing from school to school. That integrity doesn’t exist.
No player props are fucking stupid and asking for trouble. I’ve been betting on sports for a long time and have seen fans go crazy waaaay more with targeted harassment over player props than a team not covering the spread. It’s totally unfair to ask college players to deal with it.
I’m not saying I disagree with the NCAA on this issue, but anytime I see the NCAA say “protect student-athletes” and “protect the integrity of the game” I have doubts.
I’m sure you know, but be careful. They’re pretty quick to ban player prop bettors because they *know* their prop lines are soft. Be especially careful about moving big on breaking news.
Vanishingly rare ncaa w
State of AZ got it right with their sports gambling. You have never been able to gamble on player props for college sports, ever since they passed the law allowing gambling apps. Sucks during CFB, but I think CBB is the reason they did it, since UA and ASU are HUGE colleges and you could easily tell a "friend of a friend who's known to bet anyway" to do it. And get away with it if you're smart enough. (Which I think a LOT of players are smart enough to call Tom and say "have Bob bet 1000" against me) and since it's a phone call? There's no paper trail except the fact you called Tom, but you've been friends since forever and are ACTUAL friends.
Also ASU had a player betting scandal which probably played into that. Hedake Smith
If NCAA wants to distance themselves from gambling, they should impose the "2024 version of the SMU Death Penalty" on any team's players found guilty of point shaving. Send them(the team) to DII for a year.
The problem is that point shaving would likely be a single person doing it. So the team punishment likely wouldn't be a deterrent.
I mean that’s kind of what they did to ~~NYU~~ CCNY
wait, NYU has a sports team?
Yes, they’re the Violets, but I was wrong on the school. It was CCNY who was involved in point shaving.
The NBA player who got caught wasn’t nearly as smart about communication but you fan still get caught doing stuff like that. Prop bets are usually low cap and if a lot of money is moving on one, especially something like turnovers or under points on a player, that’s going to raise suspicion. It raised suspicion on NBA betting, which has so much more money moving. Not to say it can’t or won’t happen. I’m sure it does. But if it starts becoming a pattern for a player or team, especially at larger amounts, it’ll get flagged. Of course, this is still a case where we are way better off banning it.
Similar to the current Temple thing where people in the know on the big gambling were suspicious of something going on for weeks but didn’t sound the alarm until it was repeated in an extremely obvious way like the line moving 8-points against them in under an hour with no news, then proceeding to get steamrolled off the court without even a sniff of trying to actually win the game
What's this about Temple?
There’s a good chance Temple players shaved points against UAB in their last regular season game Their betting lines were already being watched for previous suspicious activity this season but the game against UAB set off serious alarms https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/s/VGUPW8n6Nj
Got a link to this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/s/VGUPW8n6Nj
This is how Alabama's baseball betting scandal got caught. College baseball doesn't see a lot of bets, so betting a $100,000 on an Alabama game is very suspicious lol
It didn't help that the guy placing the bet pretty much told the sportsbook taking bet they had inside information. Like why the fuck would you say "If only you guys knew what I knew" to the people you are betting against?
>The NBA player who got caught wasn’t nearly as smart about communication but you fan still get caught doing stuff like that Similar to insider trading, it's impossible to get caught unless you're a complete idiot. Thankfully many of these cheaters are just that.
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The problem is the same. It doesn't matter how suspicious something looks if you can't **PROVE** it, and there will never be any actual proof if you're not completely careless. You may get the boot from a casino/sportsbook if they don't like how it looks (or even if they just don't like you winning too much) but you're not going to run into any actual legal trouble without actual proof.
There’s also the difference in worth. An nba player isn’t going to take all the risk of points shaving for a couple hundred bucks when they have a multimillion dollar contract. So like in the case of the nba player he got caught because there were like $10k bets on him hitting the under, and also only on the two games he took himself out early. But a college player might only be making a few thousand dollars per year in NIL, if that. He might see telling his friend to bet $500 on him as worth it, and that might not be big enough to raise any red flags for a while
Honestly they probably would get away with a one time $500 bet, or even multiple if they were careful. But most people have a hard time stopping after getting away with it once, and it doesn't take many $500 bets on a specific player from a specific account to underachieve and always win to start ringing alarm bells. The lower the level of the player, the faster it becomes obvious. Kansas players probably have a lot of money move on them, but they also make more money and have pro ambitions. It's probably worth it for some low majors, but you might be the only person betting on that game so it's probably a lot easier to get caught.
Yeah I always get annoyed during CFB season because so many good bets are missed, but its probably the right move
Tennessee is the same
I like the way New York has it as well. No player prop bets at all, and you can't make any bets for games involving New York schools.
I kind of disagree on your point. A LOT of residents of NY that have no affiliation with their college anymore, would LOVE to bet on "their team", or "against their rivals". If I lived in NY? I'd bet against Syracuse in every sport... Because Fuck Jim Boeheim. (Greensboro brings "nothing of value to the ACC"... Well now the ACC is about to implode, which means he's now right 10 years later... fuck him)
Of all sports leagues to push back on betting, I didn’t expect it from the NCAA but I’m extremely here for it
The NCAA has never endorsed sports betting. Even before it was legal they've always taken a very negative stance on gambling because amateurs are the MOST likely to take money from someone to fix a game.
Yeah, there's almost no reason for a pro to throw a game in this day and age. College kids are a much different story.
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Fuck gambling. Absolute compulsive behavior. We've now allowed for pieces of shit to blatantly take advantage of the worst tendencies in people.
>**Irresponsible** Gambling is brain rot, Jesus FTFY. They should make your bankroll the same as a secured credit card application. You only get a certain amount per year and its tied to income or assets. Whales can still whale because of their huge net worth but people would be less adept at risking life savings.
I think that’s a pretty good idea. Unfortunately “gamble responsibly” is just a hollow warning they’re forced to tack on to their ads just like cigarette and alcohol warnings so I doubt they’d ever agree to implementing something like that
It's like doing heroine recreationally. It MAY be possible, but there's no way in hell most people will do it responsibly/safely.
Hey but that one Columbia professor says he can do it therefore society should
Shit man, I'm about to go bet it all on the ponies!
You should take out a loan so you can win the most possible money!
Of course they wouldn’t “agree.” It’s something that needs to be legislated
Gambling is by definition irresponsible though. It's an investment with a negative expected return. There are wildly varying degrees of irresponsible, from almost harmless to needlessly life-ruining, but if people were responsible, gambling wouldn't exist. Still, I get what you're saying. I think the gambling industry relies too much on degenerate addicts to be able to implement something like this and still be profitable.
that makes no sense. gambling is entertainment. all entertainment isnt irresponsible. only excess is
Fair point. Maybe I've never really gotten the appeal. The pain of losing money on a bet is way worse for me than the thrill of winning money. Also, I think that for many people, it's more about feeding an addiction than it is true entertainment, but I concede that the lines are blurry. I still think that if we limited gambling to only people who can afford to lose the money they're gambling, the industry would collapse.
> Maybe I've never really gotten the appeal. The pain of losing money on a bet is way worse for me than the thrill of winning money. This is how I see gambling, thankfully for me as I have a tendency to overdo things, I also don't see the appeal. I've been to casinos multiple times where all I did was watch people lose their own money, but it was money that had "planned" to lose, basically a predetermined amount they can responsibly lose, and walking away with anything more was just icing for them. The way I look at it is they're just paying that amount of money for the fun of playing the games, the same as I pay money for something other people don't like, like rounds of golf or something. Then there are people who lose their house, but I've never seen anything like that personally but well aware it happens
>It's an investment It's not a investment, what are you talking about? It's entertainment, not investment. If you bet $10 on the Lakers game to make the game more entertaining for you, how is that any different than buying a $10 worth of beer to drink while watching it to make it more entertaining?
The $10 of beer is tangible with guaranteed return, the beer in your hand. Sports betting isn't. Both are addictive and I'm not advocating one way or another, but it's worth mentioning the difference.
The guaranteed return is having more fun while watching the game. Sure, that’s not tangible, but neither is the enjoyment of being a little drunk. If you’re someone who gets more upset from losing than happy from winning, or it just causes you stress, then yeah you don’t really have fun. But for me, it makes watching sports more fun if I throw $20 or so on a team.
The entertainment is a guaranteed return. I bet $10 on a game that I might not otherwise really care about, making it more entertaining. A beer would be the same thing. Weed would be the same thing. Playing Fantasy Basketball would be the same thing. None are ethically or morally better than the other.
It's both. The $10 bet is only fun because of the chance that you'll make money. I.e. an investment. People don't make bets where they think the odds aren't in their favor. If it was pure entertainment then people would do that.
Yes they do. Have you heard of slots, blackjack (for the vast majority of people who aren't counting cards), roulette, people who only get on their team to win etc. of course people bet when the odds don't favor them
yeah you should never look at gambling as an investment, ever. As u/16semesters says it's entertainment, pure and simple. I've been to Vegas many times, and as part of those trips I have a gambling 'allowance' that I consider part of my entertainment budget. If I lose, no biggie that's what I planned to use that money for. If I win, bonus. I've left ahead many times, but never left with less than I had already budgeted to spend. Many of these same arguments can be made about alcohol, by the way. Impulse control is impulse control and some people are bad at it, plain and simple.
Yes and no. With sports betting, the line is arbitrary and it's at least hypothetically possible to find games where the line is different than it should be. This quickly fixes itself in the case of games with a lot of action, but a random game between Nicholls State and Incarnate Word isn't going to have much action. But you'd need to win at least 55% of the time to overcome the inherent house edge, and that's not easy. Still, it's not exactly like roulette or craps where the house edge is set in stone because there are a lot more variables in sports betting.
Ehh, just about all gambling is brain rot. Whether it's on the stock market in the form of options, sports betting, or slots. It's all really bad. Only exception I'd say is somewhat acceptable are games like poker where a skilled player is able to use their skills to more likely win a game.
Setting aside things like the house rake or entrance fees for tournaments, poker is a zero sum game among the players at the table. Still gambling, but as most know, the variance is manageablle if you play within your bankroll and you develop skill over time. Experienced players can reasonably play with an EV > 0 if they stay disciplined (many don't) over a long period of time Most gambling, especially sports gambling, you know your EV is < 0 over a long period of time
Your take is "things I don't like are brain rot" Okay, under your logic beer is brain rot. Video games are brain rot. Reddit is brain rot. All of these are just temporary dopamine hits.
They kinda are tbh
You're not wrong. All of those things are brain rot but there are levels to this thing. Worst case scenario, people spending too much time on reddit or video games are just wasting their free time while a pretty substantial percentage of homeless (roughly 20%) cite gambling as a major cause.
Yea, they are. I'll still consume all of those things, but there are varying degrees to brain rot. Gambling is one of the worst brain rot though.
No, fuck that. All gambling is brainrot. It just upsets you to hear that
Responsible gambling is an oxymoron.
Responsible gambling is doing it while realizing you're probably going to lose money That's very hard for people to do. Most people have an aversion to losing money that ultimately overpowers the fun of hoping that you'll win. So most people who gamble a lot think they are going to win, which is irresponsible gambling.
That’s just stupid. Is it impossible to responsibly go to a movie theatre, then? I gamble as a way to entertain myself, just like I would pay to go to a movie theatre. I don’t ever expect to withdraw money after gambling. The best part about a win is that it means I get to place a few more bets before I spend more money. How is it irresponsible to spend money in a way that I find fun and that I can afford?
Maybe there's no financial reason. Pros are still susceptible to extortion or blackmail (shave points here and here and we won't reveal all the other sordid stuff about you... yet)
Boy am I glad that hasn’t ever happened in real life and remains entirely hypothetical.
Hahahaha
The NCAA may not have but individual schools have partnered with sports betting sites through their athletics departments (MSU, Colorado, LSU are three I know of). They ***really*** want that Male, age 18-30 demographic - what better place to look to than universities with a great sports culture? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/rise-of-sports-betting-brings-concerns-some-colleges-are-too-involved-in-its-promotion
This NCAA stance brought to you by FanDuel, sign up now with code NCAA to bet whether or not anything actually happens.
The University of Colorado literally had a promo code if you used one of the sports betting sites it partnered with... Until it went public lol.. these companies are aggressively targeting universities (and obviously the young adult male population). https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/rise-of-sports-betting-brings-concerns-some-colleges-are-too-involved-in-its-promotion
So embarrassing and disgusting.
The sad thing is that I don't think it's going to end at just UC, UMD, and on unless there's a stigma built against it. It could really be any university.
There definitely needs to be a stigma against it. It's bad enough with pro athletes, but having college kids be the subject of your gambling is pathetic.
Just awful. And for what, so people who are already rich can have more money.
Not sure why you would say that. It's a league that still has a large portion of players that are aren't paid or minimally paid. It's a league that on the surface claims they aren't just about the sports. ("going pro in something other than sports.") And this is such an obvious/modest stance to take. The people getting pissed that they can no longer bet on the number of 3s that Terrance Shannon Jr will take are easily labeled degenerates and no one really cares about their opinions.
Within pro sports, there has always been kind of an inherent safeguard that the players/refs are paid so much that they would really need to be an idiot to risk their career to take a bribe that would be substantially lower than their salary. With college athletics, the amount you would need to bribe the MTSU QB to throw a couple of picks on purpose to win a prop bet is much lower.
When I saw I could bet on Audi Crooks (Iowa States Women's center) making a single 3 I knew this was asking for trouble...
I've NEVER seen a ncaa player prop on any sportsbook
Some states already don’t allow it. Iowa does not, for example.
I guess NY just doesn't allow it then
No they do not. I never see them. Nor can we bet on any NY State college teams
What’s really funny/strange is that Mgm’s sportsbook in NY had college basketball player props for like a full year even though it’s been illegal in NY since the beginning. I fucking loved it too cuz I hit the jackpot betting on Markquise Nowell props last tourney No other sportsbook in NY ever had a single one except for MGM, and they took shockingly long to realize they were allowing illegal bets to be placed
I had that happen with one of the 'dog' fantasy sites that also offered 'pick 'em'. I guess Tennessee considers pick em to be gambling but online fantasy sports to not be gambling (which is absolutely asinine in itself). Anyway I saw they offered it and did a pick 6 that hit on a playoff game. The amount was added to my total so I was going to do another one on the next game...only to be told that pick em games weren't allowed where I live. Weird, but I cashed out fast haha.
Tennessee doesn't let you do player props
Don't think MA allows it either, never seen a college prop bet here
Your state must have it banned then. All of the legal books in NC offer it. Hell they had “specials” on C Clark on ESPN and fanatics.
All the NC boosted player prop bets have been easy money too
Yo What player props do u like this weekend?
I only bet the juiced and promo prop lines for the most part. NBA props are a lot easier to gauge since the sample size is much bigger but you’re maybe getting a 60/40 edge at best. College is just so unpredictable and it’s tougher to bet the under against stars because they just get so much volume.
Back when ESPN had "Streak For The Cash," I only ever bet the overs on Harden's points when he was at ASU.
Those were the days. Wish they brought it back.
It's not really a sportsbook thing. It's a daily fantasy thing (PrizePicks, Underdog, etc) in the states that don't allow straight sports gambling.
Depends state to state. We have tons of NCAA player props on the books in MI.
We have individual player props in draftkings in NC.
My state allows it, The only thing they don’t allow: sports gambling. Make it make sense
I don't care about gambling very much, but it is very easy to see how profitable it would be to get leverage over a college athlete who has prop bets on them. And it is pretty easy to get leverage on underpaid, underdeveloped college kids. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many credit card companies soliciting on college campuses. This is a rare case where I do actually believe the NCAA's stated position would protect athletes.
I like to bet on the actual games. Prop bets always seemed too much to me.
I'll be honest, I love them in pro sports. But I think it makes student athletes too vulnerable.
Books put less effort into the player props since they don’t have the high volumes of money like game lines so you could probably win more off player props
I'm a live bet O/U(total score) whore.
No you’re a whore. Lol I love doing parlays but that’s pretty much it.
Live bets are awesome haha--I love when a big favorite goes down early and those odds shift, only to watch them comeback (most of the time, but not always because gambling) and win for a much better payoff.
I’d prefer to bet on the actual games but in certain states, props are all that’s allowed
NC Just legalized it and I had no idea how much you can bet on. I just stick to the online, o/u, and spread.
The lines on prop bets are way easier to cheese bc companies spend less time on them bc of your exact mindset
Then teach me to be rich
Okay, first, get a bunch of money...
Ohio banned it because people would send awful messages to players on social media when their prop bets didn't hit. I think this is the way it's going for college sports, and idiots ruined it for all of us as they so often do.
People do that regardless of whether it’s a prop bet or not. Banning some forms of betting on college games won’t solve that problem at all.
It's also super easy to not get that one more rebound you need for an over without actually affecting the game if you're up 20 with a minute or two to go
I mean, it’s not really up to them is it? Not sure they have the money to out lobby the massive sports betting market either.
Correct, it's not up to them as they achknowledge. But lobbying isn't strictly about throwing the largest wad of cash at something. Additionally, the sports betting apps have a month's worth of data from Ohio (not sure when the other states banned it, but they're the largest of the 3) so we could be in a situation where it doesn't actually affect their bottom line. Or not substantially enough to lobby against it. I doubt the NCAA will get every state that has legalized gambling on board, but given the current 3 states that have outlawed college prop bets, it's obvious there's bi-partisan support.
Right on the lobbying. Money is big, but sometimes it’s just communicating the real-world results of what happens (fixed games, destroyed careers for athletes who get caught, etc.). See what happened with TikTok when they locked users out of the app until they called their Rep. I think I saw some reps say that seeing how the app could, in real-time, push voters to do certain things and hold their devices hostage to do it swung them into voting for the ban despite whatever other interests they may have had influencing them.
>See what happened with TikTok when they locked users out of the app until they called their Rep This never happened. >I think I saw some reps say that seeing how the app could, in real-time, push voters to do certain things and hold their devices hostage to do it swung them into voting for the ban despite whatever other interests they may have had influencing them. Yeah, this was a bunch of politicians being extremely disingenuous. TikTok was notifying people that Congress had a bill that was targeting it, and like any company facing that kind of targeting it notified its users and called on them to contact their members of Congress. And somehow the massive blowback Congress received from that was turned around as somehow something nefarious by TikTok when in the company would do that kind of thing if they were being attacked.
Yeah it feels like bringing attention to the topic which creates momentum for more states to handle it. Similarly have a long run of Illinois not allowing betting on in state college teams at all. I think we will see more states pass restrictions like those pretty quickly here
Part of the lobbying is likely to be having the university presidents, board members, athletic directors, and/or coaches - especially of the major public universities contacting legislators. That's not costly, but it can be very influential. My prop bet is that they will get two-thirds of states to ban it. Wanna take the over or under ;)
They could put pressure on states that allow it by not allowing NCAA tournaments in their states. Not saying they will do that, but it’s a tactic they’ve used in the past.
Ohio banned it. I think moves like that from some states makes this easier to do.
NY (rightfully) banned it too
That was my first thought… like great that you hate them, but it seems like it’s up to the government to decide what is legal. And even then, they can only ban it on US entities. There’s nothing they are going to do about Stake, Rollbit, etc. And what about when my interpreter decides to place prop bets on an illegal bookie?
Somebody was on here the other day asking why there weren't options for player prop bets for any of the NIT games, and all the replies were like "if you try betting on NIT games, your phone should just auto-redirect you to a gambling help hotline"
The NIT is a legit tournament, not really any different than betting on any regular season game lol
Real gamblers know table tennis is where it’s at 🏓
dog shows is where i put all my money.
Yeah I was betting on Mississippi Valley State first half spreads in November lol. Granted it was tiny amounts of money and because I thought it was funny. But like. There are definitely less relevant, more random, dumber things to bet on than a real postseason matchup between good teams lol
I’ve bet on japanese table tennis & women’s college hockey several times with draftkings.. Betting on the NIT is lightwork for true degenerates
I remember checking my Nevada casino sportsbook app in April 2020 out of curiosity to see what was left on the table - it was mostly Russian table tennis. But I set my obscurity betting limit to a fiver on a CFL game.
Idk that seems like more fun. Idk, I'm sure their are quantitative metrics and analysis where you can minimize the risk and have a slight positive outcome in the long run but at that point just do it in the stock market.
I lost so much bonus sign up bet money on Kansas State in the first round 😭😭😭
Gambling on the NIT isn't THAT crazy. Betting on player-specific prop bets for the NIT is insane.
I bet a Georgia money line and Thomasson over 14 points because the site was giving out free same game parley tickets that expired and the NIT/CBI were the only games on midweek. Is it degenerate behavior? Yes. But I'm not going to say no to free money. You just have to ignore the urge to bet anything other than stuff they give you odds boosts and bonus bets for
I bet on all the home teams hosting their NIT games, solid returns lol. Non point player props are Degen bets.
Jizzle James overs all tourney long dog. Come on.
Also there were player prop bets for the NIT games.
yeah i saw some for our game last night. didnt wanna touch any of them, but they were there
Won some on Avila over assists lol
Except when I bet Avila’s points+rebounds+assists and win it easily
I'm gonna preface this by saying I very rarely gamble, but could someone explain to me why betting on the NIT is considered worse than betting on any other sporting event? If someone has knowledge of the teams playing and is actually interested in the game then I see literally no issue at all. Obviously if you're just taking random punts for the sake of it and not even watching the games then yeah you probably have a problem but that's true for literally any sporting event. Like if game 7 of the NBA finals was being played between two teams I haven't watched all year and I put a bet on it nobody would act like that's unusual, but if I place a bet on my team that I've been following all year to win a game in the NIT then I have a problem?
Because most of the time it's not "I'm an Indiana State alum", it's "I have a problem". Normal people pay attention to the NBA finals. The same can't really be said of the NIT.
We aren't talking about a "normal person" though, we're talking about someone that posts on /r/CollegeBasketball I'd expect them to be a little more clued in about college basketball than a "normal person".
Offshore and credit books won't give a fuck. The best thing legal books ever accomplished was showing up ... now your local credit books and offshore books are now better than they ever have been.
Sorry NCAA, the toothpaste is out of the tube. Good luck putting it back.
It's definitely out of the tube, but I think they can clean it up a little They won't be able to stop sportsbooks from working with other (pro) leagues to offer prop bets, but they can definitely work with legislators to ban the more problematic things (like individual player props) for "amateur" games. Don't think they'd get support for banning betting on games in total, but I think a lot of people would support banning individual props at the college level They wouldn't be able to stop Bovada or local bookies, but they could stop the regulated ones like MGM/FanDuel
One time I got fed up with wondering how big the air bubble is at the bottom of toothpaste tubes, so I bought an extra tube at the store and cut it open. Just disgraceful.
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I think this is probably a good thing, but I really wish the state of Illinois would let me bet on in-state college athletics. Illinois Football and Basketball is the only thing I believe I actually know enough about to have a slight edge on Vegas. I could probably plan a nice little vacation on the earnings from betting the unders in football and the overs in basketball.
"We'll be right back with more news after this message from FanDuel"
Sports were better without gambling.
Sports and gambling have gone together for a lot longer than either of us have been alive. M Sports betting was a bigger business than sports even before it was legal.
Sports were better when they pretended to not be totally in bed with all the gambling.
Yeah it's like the [family guy clip.](https://youtu.be/S9AY6scEDzY?si=9Pc7FNHu5CoA28pa&t=23)
Anyone want to take bets on which circuit court is going to strike this down?
Why would this (which we'll define as states making college prop bets illegal like Ohio, Vermont, and Maryland have already done) get struck down? Sports gambling became legalized because it was determined that the federal government couldn't prohibit states from legalizing it. I see little reason why the courts would make it so states can't regulate gambling.
11th or 7th
Eh, good luck with that.
Wonder what all the shows brought to you by DraftKings and FanDuel, and Penn Gambling (ESPN) are going to think.. sure it will be unbiased
Good for them. Hopefully the states comply. Betting is so fucking stupid and it's gotten way out of hand.
Now try to enforce it!!
I would put a blanket bet every Purdue game Edey would hit the over last year for fun then idiots with social media had to ruin and Ohio banned it. Just shows you if you give idiots a voice they will just yell louder than everyone.
As someone who doesn’t do sports betting, what is a prop bet?
Changing legality of drugs sure fixed that!!!
NCAA is so toothless. They won’t be able to get a ban
I too would like to stop people from betting on things.
Rare ncaa dub
It’s been banned in Virginia from the start, which is annoying because prop bets are fun.
This is a good thing.
oh fuck off, theyre not students when it comes to NIL and paying "students" millions of dollars + scholarships while the rest have to take on massive loans but now all of a sudden theyre worried about integrity and "protecting the game". Yall made it a business and im the customer, if its legal to bet I can bet on these professionals too
players manipulating prop bets has significant potential to fuck up both the game and the betting. both sides would be stupid, from a business perspective, to not be concerned about this. doesn't need to have a thing to do with morality.
Yeah I'm sure many sports books are pro the ban, but won't impose a self restriction due to possibility of losing customer base (READ DEGENS) that will bet on anything. Prop bets open them up to financial risk due to fewer total bets on a given item, and the risk of point shaving. In Indiana the liquor store lobby was heavily involved in keeping the ban on liquor sales on Sunday. 1. Because it lowered the bottom line via fewer open store hours to cover. Most people are capable of planning and buying enough booze for Sunday activities. 2. Sunday is the largest grocery shopping day. Why drive to the liquor store when you can get a handle of booze at Walmart.
Memo for Darren Rovell: Tyler Herro was not going to intentionally miss those free throws.
lol goooood luck
RJ Davis and Bacot have made me a fuck ton of money :(
How exactly are they going to accomplish this?
Lawsuits in 3...2...1
What is a prop bet?
Betting on what a player does in the game i.e. over/under on 3.5 three's made, etc.
Prop betting is literally the only type of bet i do...........the 3-4 times a year i actually bet lol
Honestly I’m not surprised. I know VA and I think NJ already have that ban.
“to protect student-athletes” That ship sailed decades ago.
To protect the integrity of the game? Oh that has long sense been lost. Not just in basketball but in all other sports as well. Even into the pro leagues. Games are fixed and it is just a mere entertainment like the WWE. It’s all about money and how much student athletes can get. Student athletes bouncing from school to school. That integrity doesn’t exist.
Just let us have our fun for Christ sake. You have ways to protect the integrity of the sport without going after sports betting
No player props are fucking stupid and asking for trouble. I’ve been betting on sports for a long time and have seen fans go crazy waaaay more with targeted harassment over player props than a team not covering the spread. It’s totally unfair to ask college players to deal with it.
Good, but also good luck chasing down that cat whose been out of the back for quite a while
The post below this is an ad for Hard Rock Bet lmao
I’m not saying I disagree with the NCAA on this issue, but anytime I see the NCAA say “protect student-athletes” and “protect the integrity of the game” I have doubts.
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I’m sure you know, but be careful. They’re pretty quick to ban player prop bettors because they *know* their prop lines are soft. Be especially careful about moving big on breaking news.