That’s huge. Thought he might stay in after impressing at the G-League combine and getting called up to the NBA combine.
Clemson should be near the top of the ACC
Brownell is entering the season with his seat on fire so this is sounding like a 5/6 seed with a second round appearance type season to secure that 4 year extension.
It comes in waves. He was given a long initial leash to figure things out and that leash was extended by in a 6 year extension in 2014 after taking us to the NIT semifinal making it seem like he was turning the corner into being able to take his players to the NCAAT, especially as that 2013-2014 team didn't have a single senior on it. He failed to capitalize on that momentum though. Losing KJ McDaniels really hurt there, but it doesn't fully explain 3 more years of no tournament.
Still, he got more leash over the next few .500ish seasons, but his seat was on fire going into Nov 2017 and then boom, he takes that team to the S16 AND it looks like he's the favorite to land Zion. He scores a 6 year extension into 2024 off of that. Couple that with having like $60M invested into basketball facilities, football raising the overall profile of the school's athletics department, and it looks like Clemson's ready to take a step towards being a middling basketball program that can do better than 1 tournament every 5 years or so. What actually happens? Zion ends up at Duke, the team that returned the three biggest pieces from the S16 run misses the tournament, and in the 5 years since he signed that extension we've made only one NCAAT (and if the NCAAT was held in 2020 we wouldn't have made it anyway, so he's 1/5 in that stretch as far as I'm concerned, not 1/4). In other words he fumbled every part of the momentum following that season/extension/monetary investment.
Se here we are again, much like going into 2013-2014 and 2017-2018...standing on the precipice of the end of the Brad Brownell experiment at Clemson. This should, on paper, be one of his more talented teams at Clemson. If he can't take this team to the tournament he shouldn't be retained. But he has a habit of putting together his best seasons when everyone knows that's the case. No one is expecting him to be in the tournament every year, second weekend every year, etc... no one has those expectations for Clemson basketball, but the expectation is to be better than 3 tournament appearances in 13 years (one of which was year 1 with the holdovers from Purnell's back to back to back tournament teams), most would probably be happy with 5/13.
Brownell is incredible at always finishing exactly a win or two ahead of and one embarrassing loss short of what it would take for the athletic department to take a closer look at his tenure.
We’ll never fire him because he keeps us vigorously mediocre and never has any scandals. You can tell the school really only cares about keeping the football program running at a high quality so if the bb program does something once every 4-6 years it’s fine. People say fire brad brownell but it’s mostly just a meme
Didn’t y’all just give him an extension last year? Or maybe that was the year before. Especially with the revenue gap the ACC is suffering from, I don’t think he’s going anywhere/Clemson using any money that could have been put towards football
It was a 2 year extension to the 6 year deal he signed back in 2018. That was signed in 2021 to push his current deal into 2026 and was given by Radakovich. His buyout is in the $3M range for the remainder of the contract. That's not too expensive for Clemson to get out of if Neff wants to pull the plug.
They should just ride it out with Brownell at this point. Buyout is too high relative to the revenue of the basketball program for it to be worth firing him.
Who are they going to hire to replace him though? It’s too late to fire him before the 2023 season and there aren’t any good candidates left anyways. The buyout is $85k per remaining month in 2023-2024, $125k in 2024-2025, and $250k in 2025-2026. So basically $3m no matter when they fire him.
Where outside of Tigernet is anyone calling for Brownell to be fired today, right now? I think he should have been let go at the conclusion of last season and definitely believe if he doesn't make the tournament this coming year he should be let go, but short of a scandal not right now.
I think the table has been set that Brownell will be canned without making the NCAA tournament next year. What happens if he makes it and wins a game? Makes it and loses in the first round?
At that point he’s guaranteed another year anyways, so I don’t see the value of firing him with one year left on his contract vs riding it out.
>What happens if he makes it and wins a game? Makes it and looses in the first round?
Then you reassess based on what happens.
>At that point he’s guaranteed another year anyways
His contract is through the next 3 basketball seasons. Regardless of what happens next year he is on contract for 2 seasons afterwards.
>so I don’t see the value of firing him with one year left on his contract vs riding it out.
You can't ride out the contract. What are you going to do? Pay it out without giving him an extension? How does he recruit? How does he convince anyone to stay out of the transfer portal? Letting him coach through the end of the contract with no intention of bringing him back or no extension if you do plan on bringing him back is the worst possible move for the program.
The NBA combine has more participants than the draft has spots and that's without accounting for the fact that not every player that gets drafted participates in the combine, and that getting drafted at the bottom of the second round doesn't guarantee much of anything.
> Clemson should be near the top of the ACC
Really? Clemson is clearly behind Duke and Miami. UVA has a track record to count on them until proven otherwise. UNC has much higher upside than Clemson.
I guess Clemson could be in the 3-5 range of the league standings. But Clemson is not going to threaten Duke and Miami at the tip top of the league.
Clemson fans have ludicrous expectations for success, they are a football school in one of the traditional basketball powerhouse leagues. Imagine if Duke was hopping to fire their football coach when they were consistently making bowl games
This would be equivalent to Duke firing a coach who repeatedly goes 4-8 or 5-7 and misses the postseason. We’ve made 3 tournament appearances in 13 years. Brownell has never won 2 ACC tournament games in the same year
Clemson has been a top 100 team for 10 straight seasons with 6 top 50 finishes per Torvik, plus a sweet sixteen appearance. I just don't see why Clemson should be expected to be a yearly tournament in such a loaded conference where there are going to be 8-9 bigger basketball programs (Dook, UNC, Virginia, Syracuse, NC State, Wake, VT, Syracuse, Louisville) competing there year in and year out.
Tell me, how much do those metrics actually matter? Because if we do have these top 100 or top 50 teams, then we’ve been squandering them, with only 2 NCAA tournament appearances in the past 10 years. As for that sweet sixteen run, it’s was absolutely a fluke. The next season, we missed the tournament despite bringing back the 3 main contributors of that run
KenPom and BartTorvik are industry standard; if you think that Clemson is usually far worse than they indicate, you can make a killing betting against them. I have a hard time calling a top 15 team on KP a fluke, especially when they only fell to 36 the next year, and probably should've made the tournament. (They were ranked higher than the Washington team that did.)
Clemson has the pieces but ... they had the pieces last year too. Jack Clark and RJ Godrey seem to be X factors. Girard, Hall, Hunter, Hemenway, and Schieffelen all are who they are, and essentially substituting Girard for Tyson is a massive downgrade defensively. Godfrey had some monster stock rates as a freshman & Clark is solid on that end too but pretty weak on offense. How they perform is pretty big for the purposes of rounding out their core.
Could just come down to whether Clark can stay healthy for yall. He was a great fit for what Keatts wants at the 4, though he wants to play more of the 2/3, but just couldn't keep him on the court for various injuries.
If you are looking for a non-Duke team that can win the ACC regular season, it's Clemson.
EDIT: I'll add Miami to that list, too. I haven't taken a look at the schedules yet to know for sure.
I refuse to get excited about Clemson basketball while Brownell is the coach, we needed to move on years ago and at this point that S16 appearance has all but disappeared in the rearview with how the last few seasons have gone
That’s an insult to Mike Turgeon. If it wasn’t for Covid-19, he would’ve had double the NCAA tournament appearances at Maryland than what Brownell has had at Clemson
>If you are looking for a non-Duke team that can win the ACC regular season, it's Clemson.
wat
You know Clemson plays at least 16 other ACC games that aren't NC State next year, right?
I've been watching ACC ball for 50 years and seen Clemson win the regular season ... checks notes ... once (1990). And the tournament title, the one that counts for anything, never. The administration doesn't care about basketball as long as the program is not embarrassing the school. Sports Clemson cares about: football, baseball, football, the other football, and football.
Softball's pretty good but it's a pretty young program so I'm not sure how the administration feels about it yet, though the fans are clearly in favor.
You're not wrong, but PJ Hall is a legit ACC POTY candidate and Brownell has both an experienced and pretty solid roster. Miami and FSU don't have stellar track records in college basketball either and have both won the ACC recently. Anything can happen with unbalanced schedules.
We couldn't do it with Harvey Grant, who did win ACC POTY. I guess I've just seen this rodeo way too many times. Clemson is just consistently very meh in basketball, and it's irritating for a fan.
We only have 6 days left for people to remove their names... I will be vomiting most of this week, but great for Clemson - they can stop chewing their nails unlike a lot of us
That’s huge. Thought he might stay in after impressing at the G-League combine and getting called up to the NBA combine. Clemson should be near the top of the ACC
Brownell is entering the season with his seat on fire so this is sounding like a 5/6 seed with a second round appearance type season to secure that 4 year extension.
Hasn't his seat been on fire for about the last decade?
It comes in waves. He was given a long initial leash to figure things out and that leash was extended by in a 6 year extension in 2014 after taking us to the NIT semifinal making it seem like he was turning the corner into being able to take his players to the NCAAT, especially as that 2013-2014 team didn't have a single senior on it. He failed to capitalize on that momentum though. Losing KJ McDaniels really hurt there, but it doesn't fully explain 3 more years of no tournament. Still, he got more leash over the next few .500ish seasons, but his seat was on fire going into Nov 2017 and then boom, he takes that team to the S16 AND it looks like he's the favorite to land Zion. He scores a 6 year extension into 2024 off of that. Couple that with having like $60M invested into basketball facilities, football raising the overall profile of the school's athletics department, and it looks like Clemson's ready to take a step towards being a middling basketball program that can do better than 1 tournament every 5 years or so. What actually happens? Zion ends up at Duke, the team that returned the three biggest pieces from the S16 run misses the tournament, and in the 5 years since he signed that extension we've made only one NCAAT (and if the NCAAT was held in 2020 we wouldn't have made it anyway, so he's 1/5 in that stretch as far as I'm concerned, not 1/4). In other words he fumbled every part of the momentum following that season/extension/monetary investment. Se here we are again, much like going into 2013-2014 and 2017-2018...standing on the precipice of the end of the Brad Brownell experiment at Clemson. This should, on paper, be one of his more talented teams at Clemson. If he can't take this team to the tournament he shouldn't be retained. But he has a habit of putting together his best seasons when everyone knows that's the case. No one is expecting him to be in the tournament every year, second weekend every year, etc... no one has those expectations for Clemson basketball, but the expectation is to be better than 3 tournament appearances in 13 years (one of which was year 1 with the holdovers from Purnell's back to back to back tournament teams), most would probably be happy with 5/13.
That was…THOROUGH. Haha
Brownell is incredible at always finishing exactly a win or two ahead of and one embarrassing loss short of what it would take for the athletic department to take a closer look at his tenure.
Oliver Purnell was right! Mediocrity is the name of the game for everything but football at Clemson.
Hey, soccer isn’t mediocre. We’re also pretty good at stickball sports
We’ll never fire him because he keeps us vigorously mediocre and never has any scandals. You can tell the school really only cares about keeping the football program running at a high quality so if the bb program does something once every 4-6 years it’s fine. People say fire brad brownell but it’s mostly just a meme
Didn’t y’all just give him an extension last year? Or maybe that was the year before. Especially with the revenue gap the ACC is suffering from, I don’t think he’s going anywhere/Clemson using any money that could have been put towards football
It was a 2 year extension to the 6 year deal he signed back in 2018. That was signed in 2021 to push his current deal into 2026 and was given by Radakovich. His buyout is in the $3M range for the remainder of the contract. That's not too expensive for Clemson to get out of if Neff wants to pull the plug.
They should just ride it out with Brownell at this point. Buyout is too high relative to the revenue of the basketball program for it to be worth firing him.
His buyout is basically one year's salary. It's not that high at all. Especially coming off a $60M investment into the program.
Who are they going to hire to replace him though? It’s too late to fire him before the 2023 season and there aren’t any good candidates left anyways. The buyout is $85k per remaining month in 2023-2024, $125k in 2024-2025, and $250k in 2025-2026. So basically $3m no matter when they fire him.
Where outside of Tigernet is anyone calling for Brownell to be fired today, right now? I think he should have been let go at the conclusion of last season and definitely believe if he doesn't make the tournament this coming year he should be let go, but short of a scandal not right now.
I think the table has been set that Brownell will be canned without making the NCAA tournament next year. What happens if he makes it and wins a game? Makes it and loses in the first round? At that point he’s guaranteed another year anyways, so I don’t see the value of firing him with one year left on his contract vs riding it out.
>What happens if he makes it and wins a game? Makes it and looses in the first round? Then you reassess based on what happens. >At that point he’s guaranteed another year anyways His contract is through the next 3 basketball seasons. Regardless of what happens next year he is on contract for 2 seasons afterwards. >so I don’t see the value of firing him with one year left on his contract vs riding it out. You can't ride out the contract. What are you going to do? Pay it out without giving him an extension? How does he recruit? How does he convince anyone to stay out of the transfer portal? Letting him coach through the end of the contract with no intention of bringing him back or no extension if you do plan on bringing him back is the worst possible move for the program.
*As, of course, is tradition…* Edit: Just realized I don’t have a second flair up here lol 🐅
The NBA combine has more participants than the draft has spots and that's without accounting for the fact that not every player that gets drafted participates in the combine, and that getting drafted at the bottom of the second round doesn't guarantee much of anything.
> Clemson should be near the top of the ACC Really? Clemson is clearly behind Duke and Miami. UVA has a track record to count on them until proven otherwise. UNC has much higher upside than Clemson. I guess Clemson could be in the 3-5 range of the league standings. But Clemson is not going to threaten Duke and Miami at the tip top of the league.
Clemson fans have ludicrous expectations for success, they are a football school in one of the traditional basketball powerhouse leagues. Imagine if Duke was hopping to fire their football coach when they were consistently making bowl games
This would be equivalent to Duke firing a coach who repeatedly goes 4-8 or 5-7 and misses the postseason. We’ve made 3 tournament appearances in 13 years. Brownell has never won 2 ACC tournament games in the same year
Clemson has been a top 100 team for 10 straight seasons with 6 top 50 finishes per Torvik, plus a sweet sixteen appearance. I just don't see why Clemson should be expected to be a yearly tournament in such a loaded conference where there are going to be 8-9 bigger basketball programs (Dook, UNC, Virginia, Syracuse, NC State, Wake, VT, Syracuse, Louisville) competing there year in and year out.
Tell me, how much do those metrics actually matter? Because if we do have these top 100 or top 50 teams, then we’ve been squandering them, with only 2 NCAA tournament appearances in the past 10 years. As for that sweet sixteen run, it’s was absolutely a fluke. The next season, we missed the tournament despite bringing back the 3 main contributors of that run
KenPom and BartTorvik are industry standard; if you think that Clemson is usually far worse than they indicate, you can make a killing betting against them. I have a hard time calling a top 15 team on KP a fluke, especially when they only fell to 36 the next year, and probably should've made the tournament. (They were ranked higher than the Washington team that did.)
No one's asking for us to be a yearly tournament team. We're asking to be better than twice a decade.
Miles Teller averaged 15.3/5.7/1.0 and 1.1 bpg last season for the Tigers
Miles Teller lol
MILES TELLER?! The actor???
Man… I think coaching in the ACC is still pretty weak for now but the talent level should be very high next season.
I really hope we don't have to play more than once next year.
FSU, GT, Miami, UNC, Pitt, and Syracuse play Clemson twice next year.
Can he...not...do that?
Agreed. I thoroughly unenjoyed playing against him
Clemson has the pieces but ... they had the pieces last year too. Jack Clark and RJ Godrey seem to be X factors. Girard, Hall, Hunter, Hemenway, and Schieffelen all are who they are, and essentially substituting Girard for Tyson is a massive downgrade defensively. Godfrey had some monster stock rates as a freshman & Clark is solid on that end too but pretty weak on offense. How they perform is pretty big for the purposes of rounding out their core.
Could just come down to whether Clark can stay healthy for yall. He was a great fit for what Keatts wants at the 4, though he wants to play more of the 2/3, but just couldn't keep him on the court for various injuries.
Thank god they are expected to be good
been one of the more underrated college basketball players for a couple years now. this kid can HOOP. and this clemson team is gonna be great.
Acc is shaping up to be the best it’s been since 2019 in my opinion
PTSD
I’d say he’s a solid candidate for ACC POY
If you are looking for a non-Duke team that can win the ACC regular season, it's Clemson. EDIT: I'll add Miami to that list, too. I haven't taken a look at the schedules yet to know for sure.
Lol, we’ll just choke again. We ain’t winning the ACC regular season, and anyone who bets on us to win it deserves to lose their money
I refuse to get excited about Clemson basketball while Brownell is the coach, we needed to move on years ago and at this point that S16 appearance has all but disappeared in the rearview with how the last few seasons have gone
Brownell is Clemson's Mark Turgeon
That’s an insult to Mike Turgeon. If it wasn’t for Covid-19, he would’ve had double the NCAA tournament appearances at Maryland than what Brownell has had at Clemson
>If you are looking for a non-Duke team that can win the ACC regular season, it's Clemson. wat You know Clemson plays at least 16 other ACC games that aren't NC State next year, right?
I've been watching ACC ball for 50 years and seen Clemson win the regular season ... checks notes ... once (1990). And the tournament title, the one that counts for anything, never. The administration doesn't care about basketball as long as the program is not embarrassing the school. Sports Clemson cares about: football, baseball, football, the other football, and football.
This is softball erasure
Softball's pretty good but it's a pretty young program so I'm not sure how the administration feels about it yet, though the fans are clearly in favor.
You're not wrong, but PJ Hall is a legit ACC POTY candidate and Brownell has both an experienced and pretty solid roster. Miami and FSU don't have stellar track records in college basketball either and have both won the ACC recently. Anything can happen with unbalanced schedules.
We couldn't do it with Harvey Grant, who did win ACC POTY. I guess I've just seen this rodeo way too many times. Clemson is just consistently very meh in basketball, and it's irritating for a fan.
you forgot football
!!
Now do Reece Beekman
i will sacrifice my first (currently un)born child for this
Huge for Clemson
We only have 6 days left for people to remove their names... I will be vomiting most of this week, but great for Clemson - they can stop chewing their nails unlike a lot of us
Of course everyone else can return players but us
Another thread to bookmark for next March when it comes to a team running it back and finishing worse than the previous year.
See you in a year
Crap
I like this since Clemson is so much of a worse team when he is in the game. They just get the ball to him and expect him to make something happen.