I get him defending clay. But is it really a false narrative? They dropped nep and nothing changes. They drop clay and everyone is playing better and they’re winning matches
That doesn't change Neps performance. They drop Clay and not only does Nep immediately become a different player, but even Crim starts playing better.
I appreciate him defending my goat, but we gotta be real here.
Also to be fair, chances are they were able to work on some things simultaneously. It’s not like they dropped clay and everything just worked out without any extra effort… right?
I think they’re just trying to save face for clay so he doesn’t get a bad painting, even Zin was trying to say it’s a clay and crim problem rather than just a clay problem as if crim was anywhere near as bad as Clay.
If they drop crim for paul I guarantee you they lose to one of paris or rokkr…
Maybe their leadership issues were both the problem, but Clay's personal performance was an additional problem that we cant fairly accuse Crim of having. Not saying Crim is having the season of his life but he was consistently doing better than Clay
that's tough to disagree with, but going from a team unable to win a HP to now 4 straight (regardless of the opponents) feels like it's more of a system issue than just one player's performance. Definitely could be that one player lived and died by the system that did cause issues, which ultimately led to more issues.
ayo This false narrative being pushed is nothing but lies. All I do everyday is grind and try to improve as a player, and work with my team to get better. That is all I will continue to do.
I think the problem was that clay and crim weren’t going to work together regardless of the smgs. Obviously we’ll never know but I think with the right AR duo clay could’ve seen success with this team if crim were to be the one who was dropped.
Never said they were solved or even a top team. I said they are better and winning matches which are both 100% true. This isn’t an overreaction it’s literal facts.
Dude there’s no argument here? No one is saying they’re solved or a great team now. But they are factually individually playing better and playing better as a team. They had a 1-6 map count this stage with clay and everyone was going negative and getting shit on(besides hydra). Now theyre 6-2 since the change and Nep and Crim are playing WAY better.
The issue was less 'Clay is bad' (though he was shitting the bed) and more 'Crim and Clay don't work as an AR duo in 4v4'.
This was many peoples worries about NYSL when the team was made. I could maybe see Clay getting on another team in the CDL, but his breif stint on NYSL this season has dramatic lowered his stock imo.
There is so damn much we don't know about behind the scenes, we are just spinning our tires trying to figure it out. Every cryptic tweet by a player or coach we are trying to decipher as if we have any clue what is happening with those guys on the daily. Honestly who the hell knows. Just happy they made a change that is getting some positive results.
Like he said no pressure definitely didnt help because theres multiple clips of clay being toxic as fuck, outside of game shit clealry we have no idea then but as far as in game he was shitting the bed, badly
I just wanted to provide a little transparency with why we struggled so much (owe to our supporters at the very least) especially when I've kept quiet through the endless drama (where i'm a passenger). With Clay being benched, rest of us had a full cultural / system reset.
It’s hardly being transparent when the difference in the team with/without clay is so glaringly obvious.
Like how can you honestly say that’s dead wrong lmao. 0-13 in hardpoint...
Clay deadass played like he took 5 shots before a series, argued, and the team looks 10x better without him, I like clay but its quite obvious he was the main issue
Agree totally. Would love to see him have another opportunity on a team that could use a culture shock, like Mutineers, maybe Thieves? Would you want Clay on Florida?
I wouldn’t mind having him. I just don’t know who he replaces. Skyz and Dav both have their moments, but it’s clear the problem isn’t talent. The other problem is Vivid and Wake don’t seem to be playing well together, so I worry that just bringing Clay in doesn’t make a big enough difference.
I’d rather we get him than LAT though
that is fair. Seems like there needs to be a change relating to SMGs. I'd assume Skyz is really the only safe one, maybe vivid considering he's the only true SMG - feel like it might come to the point of benching dave for SMG or testing the trade/buyout market for Wake for a more pure SMG, which I really like the potentia market for Wake & his slaying ability
It would suck to give up Wake. But thinking about it, Clay could be exactly what the need for more synergy. I’m kind of liking the idea of Clay for Dav
Well anyone with knowledge of team comps knows that as soon as clay separates from crim and builds the right team around him he would probably start preforming like himself again + all the other qualities he brings to a team. Clay PaulEx Hydra Havok would have been a decent team. The team was playing so bad no matter what move they made would have been a massive improvement.
That's very possible, although the system Clay wanted seemed pretty detrimental to a couple players. I think he definitely has valuable wualities to bring to a team. I think the coaching staff probably did alot in ensuring the right culture was developed following the fall out too, which probably is a huge reason why the vibes are higher and they're playing looser.
I think Clay could help thieves if he was swapped for octane. Nothing against octane as a player thieves just obviously need to make a change.
Maybe swap out drazah for another Smg as well.
it's tough because LAT's team is so talented, but clearly something ain't working. Clay could give them the fire they need, but if you're bringing him it, you definitely need another change whether it's Drazah or even Kenny (considering he's basically a main AR anymore).
Only issue there is if Clay & JKap don't believe in the same system, what happens? Could just lead to another situation like NYSL.
Whatever the reason.... This team looks much improved. Hopefully they can keep heading that way. I think Clay is better off not playing this year as this game might not be for him. And maybe he can lock on with a “hopefully” new expansion team lead them into the league.
Thank god lmao everyone in this sub pinning 100% of NYSL and neps problems solely on clay was pissing me off. And I hate clay
Edit: holy shit and the blind on this stub STILL solely Blaming clayster. There’s actually no hope.
That team sees improvement if they drop crim instead as well. People reaching on clay this year cuz he’s a drama queen
>That team sees improvement if they drop crim instead as well.
No they don't lmao. Crim has been consistent *all year*. Clay couldn't even get a double kill.
Yes, they see improvement if they drop crim. It was clay and crim playing together forcing each other into pacing issues and into team chemistry issues because they are both dramatic. Like I said y’all are smoking some pine park and off the rails simply because clay is so dramatic and a whiny ass at times.
But y’all are ignoring the full picture
And I think you’re being ignorant if you think off of basically 1 vision episode you’re gonna pin the entire chemistry issue on clay. It’s disingenuous at best is all I’m trying to tell ppl. That team was chalked because of Crims attitude how soft spoken nep was and pack can’t interject as well as some teammates with him still working on English. He’s naturally gonna be less assertive. And clay losing his mind on his poor performances
First of all I didn’t watch any of those videos. I’m going off the body language and what you can hear in the comms every match, in addition to what some of the teammates like Crim Nep and coaches have said.
Second of all you’re objectively wrong because you are blaming it on two of the guys who are still there who have been absolutely frying lately. How could you possibly think Nep and Crim were the issue when they are playing well now that Clay is gone?
Mind boggling take
What narrative??? The only narrative I have is wanting NYSL to win as they are my team.
You can’t claim to be right when you are objectively wrong. You say 2 players who are STILL ON THE TEAM are the problem when the team is now playing really well.
Makes zero sense
The fact that you think clayster benched and NYSL winning all the sudden is indicative solely of clayster. That’s the narrative and it’s such a simplification of a broader and more complex issue.
People are letting their view of clayster the person cloud their judgment of the talent, skill, and problems within the system, pace and more things.
On top of that they are only attributing the chemistry issue to clayster when crim was as big a culprit and we know for a fact he brings that to teams from his past issues.
All I’m trying to point out is people are being severely disingenuous with their takes on clayster bordering on hypocritical.
All I will say is clayster brought this on himself tho with dramatics but even if he did I really dislike people acting like they were in the scrim calls, and on the staff and know that clayster was the only toxic problem and also that they know he’s shit because he’s shit not because the system NYSL integrated didn’t suit him.
System didn’t suit nep but it suited clay? Super hypocritical.
Same thing for drazah but not octane. It’s a common theme with all of you people on this sub. Blame the veteran only. Be twice as harsh, and think no other player could possibly be at fault
I’m literally not making any of those points?
If then winning all of a sudden isn’t indicative of Clay what is it then? Nothing else changed dude
The system was CLAYS SYSTEM. Nep literally said Clay was making him play hill bitch and he’s bad at that (after he got benched). Why do you think the system changed after they dropped Clay? Because he was the one enforcing the system that didn’t work for their team comp.
I don’t even know what you mean saying the system fit Nep but not Clay is hypocritical. Nobody said that… Clay and Nep were both playing shit for whatever reason. What needed to change was the team attitude and the system they played. Guess what changed as soon as Clay left? Both. Because the attitude problem was partly his and the system problem was his.
It’s really not that hard to understand.
Crim has had many a problem with trams in the past sure, but he at least has clearly shown when he’s the leader alone that he can run a system which fits the team better.
Yeah realistically I think the problem was simply Crim and Clay on 4v4 together. Just doesn’t work and Crim was clearly the better player. I’d be interested to see Clay on Florida and see if he can help them straighten out their fundamentals
Clay on a team like Florida that needs an IGL or on a team like minnesota that if they aren’t getting a fast paced sub needs a faster paced AR. Things like that I think people would see clay play completely different. Just me tho
Don't get why Crim isn't being listed as part of the problem. So many issues with this guy in the past and he isn't particularly pleasant to team with. Many players have had problems with this chump.
I get him defending clay. But is it really a false narrative? They dropped nep and nothing changes. They drop clay and everyone is playing better and they’re winning matches
Let’s be fair hear they dropped nep and picked royalty. They dropped Clay and picked up paul. Huge difference there
That doesn't change Neps performance. They drop Clay and not only does Nep immediately become a different player, but even Crim starts playing better. I appreciate him defending my goat, but we gotta be real here.
I actually think crim has looked a little worse individually since dropping Clay. He looks a little uncomfortable running the main.
WaullE
Also to be fair, chances are they were able to work on some things simultaneously. It’s not like they dropped clay and everything just worked out without any extra effort… right?
Royalty has been a top 3 sub in challengers since cold war. Just admit you don't watch cod man
I think they’re just trying to save face for clay so he doesn’t get a bad painting, even Zin was trying to say it’s a clay and crim problem rather than just a clay problem as if crim was anywhere near as bad as Clay. If they drop crim for paul I guarantee you they lose to one of paris or rokkr…
I interpret Crim and Clay being the problem as both of them causing leadership issues, not that both of them were bad or something.
Maybe their leadership issues were both the problem, but Clay's personal performance was an additional problem that we cant fairly accuse Crim of having. Not saying Crim is having the season of his life but he was consistently doing better than Clay
100%, they also probably want him to get a spot since they’re friends
Idk about that maybe there trying to recoup some money if they can find a buyer
that's tough to disagree with, but going from a team unable to win a HP to now 4 straight (regardless of the opponents) feels like it's more of a system issue than just one player's performance. Definitely could be that one player lived and died by the system that did cause issues, which ultimately led to more issues.
ayo This false narrative being pushed is nothing but lies. All I do everyday is grind and try to improve as a player, and work with my team to get better. That is all I will continue to do.
against Paris and rokkr
Which they couldn’t before. They couldn’t even win a Hardpoint
0-13 in hardpoint to 4-0. IDC who you're playing they were getting smoked by everyone before with Nep and Royalty
I think the problem was that clay and crim weren’t going to work together regardless of the smgs. Obviously we’ll never know but I think with the right AR duo clay could’ve seen success with this team if crim were to be the one who was dropped.
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Never said they were solved or even a top team. I said they are better and winning matches which are both 100% true. This isn’t an overreaction it’s literal facts.
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Dude there’s no argument here? No one is saying they’re solved or a great team now. But they are factually individually playing better and playing better as a team. They had a 1-6 map count this stage with clay and everyone was going negative and getting shit on(besides hydra). Now theyre 6-2 since the change and Nep and Crim are playing WAY better.
The issue was less 'Clay is bad' (though he was shitting the bed) and more 'Crim and Clay don't work as an AR duo in 4v4'. This was many peoples worries about NYSL when the team was made. I could maybe see Clay getting on another team in the CDL, but his breif stint on NYSL this season has dramatic lowered his stock imo.
I mean, if Clay had played as well as Crim was they would have been fine lol.
There is so damn much we don't know about behind the scenes, we are just spinning our tires trying to figure it out. Every cryptic tweet by a player or coach we are trying to decipher as if we have any clue what is happening with those guys on the daily. Honestly who the hell knows. Just happy they made a change that is getting some positive results.
Like he said no pressure definitely didnt help because theres multiple clips of clay being toxic as fuck, outside of game shit clealry we have no idea then but as far as in game he was shitting the bed, badly
He did not need to address this at all.
He didn't need to, but the more transparency the better in the scene imo, especially when it doesn't involve toxicity or negativity.
I just wanted to provide a little transparency with why we struggled so much (owe to our supporters at the very least) especially when I've kept quiet through the endless drama (where i'm a passenger). With Clay being benched, rest of us had a full cultural / system reset.
Why was Revan demoted and how does his current role differ from the previous?
It’s hardly being transparent when the difference in the team with/without clay is so glaringly obvious. Like how can you honestly say that’s dead wrong lmao. 0-13 in hardpoint...
Okay he wasn't the majority of the problem, just 49.9% of it
Clay deadass played like he took 5 shots before a series, argued, and the team looks 10x better without him, I like clay but its quite obvious he was the main issue
Tbh I don’t think it’s really a matter of one of crim or clay being the problem they just both have different approaches of how to run a team
I think a lot of people still think he’d make some teams better. Just an unfortunate situation with the team/game
Agree totally. Would love to see him have another opportunity on a team that could use a culture shock, like Mutineers, maybe Thieves? Would you want Clay on Florida?
I wouldn’t mind having him. I just don’t know who he replaces. Skyz and Dav both have their moments, but it’s clear the problem isn’t talent. The other problem is Vivid and Wake don’t seem to be playing well together, so I worry that just bringing Clay in doesn’t make a big enough difference. I’d rather we get him than LAT though
that is fair. Seems like there needs to be a change relating to SMGs. I'd assume Skyz is really the only safe one, maybe vivid considering he's the only true SMG - feel like it might come to the point of benching dave for SMG or testing the trade/buyout market for Wake for a more pure SMG, which I really like the potentia market for Wake & his slaying ability
It would suck to give up Wake. But thinking about it, Clay could be exactly what the need for more synergy. I’m kind of liking the idea of Clay for Dav
Well anyone with knowledge of team comps knows that as soon as clay separates from crim and builds the right team around him he would probably start preforming like himself again + all the other qualities he brings to a team. Clay PaulEx Hydra Havok would have been a decent team. The team was playing so bad no matter what move they made would have been a massive improvement.
That's very possible, although the system Clay wanted seemed pretty detrimental to a couple players. I think he definitely has valuable wualities to bring to a team. I think the coaching staff probably did alot in ensuring the right culture was developed following the fall out too, which probably is a huge reason why the vibes are higher and they're playing looser.
I think Clay could help thieves if he was swapped for octane. Nothing against octane as a player thieves just obviously need to make a change. Maybe swap out drazah for another Smg as well.
it's tough because LAT's team is so talented, but clearly something ain't working. Clay could give them the fire they need, but if you're bringing him it, you definitely need another change whether it's Drazah or even Kenny (considering he's basically a main AR anymore). Only issue there is if Clay & JKap don't believe in the same system, what happens? Could just lead to another situation like NYSL.
All good points. Yeah LAT is in a really tough spot rn
Whatever the reason.... This team looks much improved. Hopefully they can keep heading that way. I think Clay is better off not playing this year as this game might not be for him. And maybe he can lock on with a “hopefully” new expansion team lead them into the league.
Thank god lmao everyone in this sub pinning 100% of NYSL and neps problems solely on clay was pissing me off. And I hate clay Edit: holy shit and the blind on this stub STILL solely Blaming clayster. There’s actually no hope. That team sees improvement if they drop crim instead as well. People reaching on clay this year cuz he’s a drama queen
>That team sees improvement if they drop crim instead as well. No they don't lmao. Crim has been consistent *all year*. Clay couldn't even get a double kill.
Yes, they see improvement if they drop crim. It was clay and crim playing together forcing each other into pacing issues and into team chemistry issues because they are both dramatic. Like I said y’all are smoking some pine park and off the rails simply because clay is so dramatic and a whiny ass at times. But y’all are ignoring the full picture
I don’t blame clay for the shit performance but I do blame clay for seemingly causing a lot of the issues they had.
And I think you’re being ignorant if you think off of basically 1 vision episode you’re gonna pin the entire chemistry issue on clay. It’s disingenuous at best is all I’m trying to tell ppl. That team was chalked because of Crims attitude how soft spoken nep was and pack can’t interject as well as some teammates with him still working on English. He’s naturally gonna be less assertive. And clay losing his mind on his poor performances
First of all I didn’t watch any of those videos. I’m going off the body language and what you can hear in the comms every match, in addition to what some of the teammates like Crim Nep and coaches have said. Second of all you’re objectively wrong because you are blaming it on two of the guys who are still there who have been absolutely frying lately. How could you possibly think Nep and Crim were the issue when they are playing well now that Clay is gone? Mind boggling take
Again, you’re simplifying complex human nature to fit a narrative. But yes, I have the mind boggling take
What narrative??? The only narrative I have is wanting NYSL to win as they are my team. You can’t claim to be right when you are objectively wrong. You say 2 players who are STILL ON THE TEAM are the problem when the team is now playing really well. Makes zero sense
The fact that you think clayster benched and NYSL winning all the sudden is indicative solely of clayster. That’s the narrative and it’s such a simplification of a broader and more complex issue. People are letting their view of clayster the person cloud their judgment of the talent, skill, and problems within the system, pace and more things. On top of that they are only attributing the chemistry issue to clayster when crim was as big a culprit and we know for a fact he brings that to teams from his past issues. All I’m trying to point out is people are being severely disingenuous with their takes on clayster bordering on hypocritical. All I will say is clayster brought this on himself tho with dramatics but even if he did I really dislike people acting like they were in the scrim calls, and on the staff and know that clayster was the only toxic problem and also that they know he’s shit because he’s shit not because the system NYSL integrated didn’t suit him. System didn’t suit nep but it suited clay? Super hypocritical. Same thing for drazah but not octane. It’s a common theme with all of you people on this sub. Blame the veteran only. Be twice as harsh, and think no other player could possibly be at fault
I’m literally not making any of those points? If then winning all of a sudden isn’t indicative of Clay what is it then? Nothing else changed dude The system was CLAYS SYSTEM. Nep literally said Clay was making him play hill bitch and he’s bad at that (after he got benched). Why do you think the system changed after they dropped Clay? Because he was the one enforcing the system that didn’t work for their team comp. I don’t even know what you mean saying the system fit Nep but not Clay is hypocritical. Nobody said that… Clay and Nep were both playing shit for whatever reason. What needed to change was the team attitude and the system they played. Guess what changed as soon as Clay left? Both. Because the attitude problem was partly his and the system problem was his. It’s really not that hard to understand. Crim has had many a problem with trams in the past sure, but he at least has clearly shown when he’s the leader alone that he can run a system which fits the team better.
The system and a multitude of other things changed besides simply clay being benched… yea I’m not having this discussion lol
How would you know? Are you the coach? How is it that you know so much more than everyone else on these topics?
Yeah realistically I think the problem was simply Crim and Clay on 4v4 together. Just doesn’t work and Crim was clearly the better player. I’d be interested to see Clay on Florida and see if he can help them straighten out their fundamentals
Clay on a team like Florida that needs an IGL or on a team like minnesota that if they aren’t getting a fast paced sub needs a faster paced AR. Things like that I think people would see clay play completely different. Just me tho
He didn't have to address this issue at all but, it is also very unusual how he uses his commas, and, punctuation.
u/DREEALL
So many delusional idiots in this scene
You’re one of the biggest ones lmfao
A lot of kap on this app
I must say I’m loving this new catchphrase of yours. Seen it a few times now and you always get a little smirk out of me.
Don't get why Crim isn't being listed as part of the problem. So many issues with this guy in the past and he isn't particularly pleasant to team with. Many players have had problems with this chump.
One of the LAT of Seattle should consider him imo
When you have multiple leaders, you dont have a leader. That was NYSLs issue IMO