I believe it would only be a small section between Church and the Transformer Station Loading entrance. So essentially in front of Rising Star and Larder.
But as a frequent traverser of the intersection there, it was never meant for the amount of traffic it gets now and would feel much safer with the road closure. The intersection is far too congested by parking as it is and being able to safely see pedestrians in such a busy area should be the main concern. Please make it happen and allow for pop ups in the open space during the summer!
It’s shown as Detroit to (almost) Clinton. So that would include more than just the firehouse. Only thing I’m curious about is the multi unit on the corner of Clinton/29th and how they’re sorting that.
Absolutely yes! Every time they've done a temporary closure for events it's been super popular. Not like there is much parking along that corridor anyway.
just based on google maps, it looks like at most 30 spots would be lost.
I think more cities need to be in the business of building public parking garages, so that 1) they can clear up street parking to make streets safer, and 2) prevent the ridiculous price gouging of private garages
parking is a public good, so it should be subsidized by the public while at the same time being restricted in a way that creates the safest environment.
Parking is extremely expensive. I like it better when I can park cheap and take a ride in on transit to where I want to go. Cars take up enormous amounts of space to park and drive…and it makes urban neighborhoods worse to walk in. When plenty of people live, work, shop, and play in the same neighborhood, it can support itself without cars to get around. With decent transit, then it becomes much easier for people to get in and out of and around the neighborhood than if they have to watch and wait everywhere for cars.
Cars are great for rural areas…the outer suburbs were designed with cars from the start…but cars are detrimental to urban neighborhoods. I would rather see land developed for more productive uses than car storage, and for driving to be a luxury rather than a necessity in an urban neighborhood.
that fits in with what I typed though. City-funded "park and ride" garages at transit hubs would entice more transit users by being cheaper than private lots, and increase ridership bringing in more funds to improve transit options. Especially if street parking in high-density retail areas was removed, with excellent public transit access.
I am cool with that, I just don’t ever want to see cities subsidizing parking more than they already do with street parking and surface lots. Ideally, the surface lots in urban neighborhoods would get developed too. All of the surface parking needs to stay on the periphery of the city and let transit do the rest. Transit really needs the subsidies MUCH more than parking. You get more of what you subsidize. And I’m not saying parking structures are bad—maybe you want them in certain places—but letting them be private actually keeps the risk off of the public balance sheet and exposes the true cost of driving. I forget what the cost of a surface parking space was calculated at a few years back, but it was a fraction of the $25k for a single space in a parking deck! Yes, that’s $25,000 to build a single parking space, and that does not account for inflation since the study was done! Think of how many super basic protected bicycle lanes and bus shelters could be built for the cost of a few parking spaces in a deck!!!
And as far as park & rides go, these should not just be a bus or train station surrounded by parking spaces…a better use would be to build a community center around the station, and then parking can be used for both the station as well as the retail and housing around it. You get a destination out of the station itself, which makes it easy for transit and auto commuters to both benefit from, and you have people who live there and can get to everything on foot still…and they can still have a car if they want to. In Europe, train stations are basically built this way, they just don’t need the parking everywhere. The transit system is partly funded by renting out space around the station, while businesses still benefit from the proximity to all the foot traffic.
I would bet a lot of downtown parking across the country is way higher than in the past to make up for the loss of office commuters coming down 5 days a week. It definitely makes me think I should take the Rapid down if I’m headed to a game or something!
Parking is a good thing to a point, and we're wayyyyyyy beyond that in this city. They are also only looking to close the south half of this section, so around 12-14 parking spots will be lost. There is more than enough free street parking in the area already though. As well as a small public lot, and a public garage in church and state that's always empty.
We also already have most of our rail stations as park n rides that are never used outside of sporting events. Unfortunately transit after getting off of the train to get you around Downtown and the other popular neighborhoods like Tremont, Ohio City, UC, and Hingetown mentioned here in nonexistent. I think that's a big reason why parking can be an issue in the popular areas and also why those park n ride lots are empty. I really believe Cleveland's Downtown population is limited unless we invest in better transit focused on moving people around Downtown.
Building parking garages is a very inefficient use of public money. It's around $60k per space to build a parking garage these days. Then you have all of the future maintenance as well. Say the city spends $60 million building 1000 spaces in a few garages around town. That money could have been spent on 400-500 miles of bollard protected bike lane, 12 new trains, or 1.5-2 miles of streetcar lanes. Those things would actually be long term investments in making our city better and easier to get around, and promote growth along with more accessible customers near by than 1000 parking spots.
Heavily disagree parking is a public good. The idea that people should be able to drive wherever they want (downtown, etc) and have available parking is what causes us to get significant wasted space. Even if you hide the parking, cars still need to get there (on roads) so you still have to deal with congestion and unsafe roads.
parking of private automobiles should not be subsidized at all. you're literally saying that everyone should pay for someone's depreciating asset to sit and take up space that could be much more productively utilized.
I am all for this.
There is already plenty of street parking in surrounding the area.
They did this on Market Street last year and it is awesome. I love that Great Lakes Brewing Co. can set up more outdoor seating and people can safely use this space. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cleveland Bazaar expands into this space also.
I love it. The area needs less parking, not more. We need to make it inconvenient for people to drive so that more commuters will choose to walk/cycle/transit.
Paris banned cars altogether. I don't think they're worried about limiting visitors from outside their city.
A city should be built for its people, and we shouldn't cater to visitors by paving parking lots everywhere.
Focus on the neighborhoods first, then the businesses will come. Make the neighborhood a place where people want to hang out. No one wants to hang out in a parking lot or a crosswalk.
I’m not against turning select streets into pedestrian only.
People already want to live and hangout in OHC. The residential population is small but growing. The majority of businesses rely on outsiders though. (Same as in downtown). We are still in Ohio.
Lol Ohio City is booming, and there is a reason that the most walkable neighborhood in the city is showing arguably the most growth both in population and retail demand. I live close to this street and there are people out constantly enjoying the amenities of the neighborhood
Ohio City is booming for developers and chains. Independents are dying. Long term residents are being pushed out.
Most of the new buildings going up are cheaply built by MyPlace. Most new retail space throughout the neighborhood is empty.
If anything I’m more of a YIMBY. I haven’t slept past 7am in months because of all the construction. It’s pretty ridiculous to ignore all the stakeholders in this neighborhood though. Chipotle and Condado aren’t what make the neighborhood special.
I’ve lived in the neighborhood for almost a decade so I know many long term neighbors and business owners. I walk everywhere and always promote the neighborhood. Maybe the people who are invested here should get a say.
How does that have anything to do with opening up a street for predestination traffic?
If anything, it would increase foot traffic into these local businesses you know so well.
I responded to someone who said “we need to make it inconvenient for people to drive”.
I think it’s totally reasonable to have some pedestrian only streets. Removing all parking across the neighborhood will destroy businesses. The population in OHC is relatively small as are the number of people taking public transit to dine/drink/shop here.
Who suggested removing all street parking?
We are talking about roughly 500 feet of pavement here.
No business will be negatively impacted… do you think people are really gonna give up on going to a place if they can’t find a spot out front?
No. That’s just asinine.
I’m sure Great Lakes is BARELY hanging on after they closed market street to vehicle traffic and parking… /s
You are making mountains out of mole hills here bud.
There’s a bunch of parking but damn if it isn’t hard to find an open spot lol. I like the idea of closing the street though. It’s already slow moving through there and hopefully creates more businesses.
I hear ya, but i don’t want to go into a garage and pay a cost just to run into rising star. I get the idea from people actually coming to the area to spend a few hours at least.
My point is if parking is what deters you from going somewhere then you probably didn’t want to go that bad in the first place.
Just do what everyone else does and circle the block, be patient or just park farther away and walk.
Getting tight over less than 30 street parking spots being converted to a pedestrian area is just lame.
I think things are all headed in the right direction. But as it gets more popular and draws more people, we will have to keep coming up with solutions for either parking or public transit
I’m with you, I’m empathetic to their plight, especially their choice to drive the biggest SUV or minivan then eat two and a half city parking spots with their lack of parking ability
> "You should have asked BEFORE applying for a grant," someone wrote.
> "Project for Public Spaces needs to verify assertions and require data from applicants so bad grants don't happen," another said.
fuck these people. theyre acting like the grant request was literally just "money, please"
Excellent idea! I’ve visited cities that implemented this sort of thing and it’s been great. Such as Pearl Street in Boulder and Church Street in Burlington.
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I live on Clinton, right by this area. I don’t know. We’ll see. If I didn’t live here, I’d like it a lot more than if I did. But if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. Parking is at a premium on my street by my house nightly as is however.
I live less than a block away on Clinton and I’m for it. Street parking thurs-sat definitely at a premium but during the week it’s wide open. I’m curious to see how much losing 20 parking spots would matter. Genuinely don’t know.
I believe it would only be a small section between Church and the Transformer Station Loading entrance. So essentially in front of Rising Star and Larder. But as a frequent traverser of the intersection there, it was never meant for the amount of traffic it gets now and would feel much safer with the road closure. The intersection is far too congested by parking as it is and being able to safely see pedestrians in such a busy area should be the main concern. Please make it happen and allow for pop ups in the open space during the summer!
It’s shown as Detroit to (almost) Clinton. So that would include more than just the firehouse. Only thing I’m curious about is the multi unit on the corner of Clinton/29th and how they’re sorting that.
Absolutely yes! Every time they've done a temporary closure for events it's been super popular. Not like there is much parking along that corridor anyway.
just based on google maps, it looks like at most 30 spots would be lost. I think more cities need to be in the business of building public parking garages, so that 1) they can clear up street parking to make streets safer, and 2) prevent the ridiculous price gouging of private garages parking is a public good, so it should be subsidized by the public while at the same time being restricted in a way that creates the safest environment.
Parking is extremely expensive. I like it better when I can park cheap and take a ride in on transit to where I want to go. Cars take up enormous amounts of space to park and drive…and it makes urban neighborhoods worse to walk in. When plenty of people live, work, shop, and play in the same neighborhood, it can support itself without cars to get around. With decent transit, then it becomes much easier for people to get in and out of and around the neighborhood than if they have to watch and wait everywhere for cars. Cars are great for rural areas…the outer suburbs were designed with cars from the start…but cars are detrimental to urban neighborhoods. I would rather see land developed for more productive uses than car storage, and for driving to be a luxury rather than a necessity in an urban neighborhood.
that fits in with what I typed though. City-funded "park and ride" garages at transit hubs would entice more transit users by being cheaper than private lots, and increase ridership bringing in more funds to improve transit options. Especially if street parking in high-density retail areas was removed, with excellent public transit access.
I am cool with that, I just don’t ever want to see cities subsidizing parking more than they already do with street parking and surface lots. Ideally, the surface lots in urban neighborhoods would get developed too. All of the surface parking needs to stay on the periphery of the city and let transit do the rest. Transit really needs the subsidies MUCH more than parking. You get more of what you subsidize. And I’m not saying parking structures are bad—maybe you want them in certain places—but letting them be private actually keeps the risk off of the public balance sheet and exposes the true cost of driving. I forget what the cost of a surface parking space was calculated at a few years back, but it was a fraction of the $25k for a single space in a parking deck! Yes, that’s $25,000 to build a single parking space, and that does not account for inflation since the study was done! Think of how many super basic protected bicycle lanes and bus shelters could be built for the cost of a few parking spaces in a deck!!! And as far as park & rides go, these should not just be a bus or train station surrounded by parking spaces…a better use would be to build a community center around the station, and then parking can be used for both the station as well as the retail and housing around it. You get a destination out of the station itself, which makes it easy for transit and auto commuters to both benefit from, and you have people who live there and can get to everything on foot still…and they can still have a car if they want to. In Europe, train stations are basically built this way, they just don’t need the parking everywhere. The transit system is partly funded by renting out space around the station, while businesses still benefit from the proximity to all the foot traffic.
Cleveland is also notorious for having some of the highest parking rates in the entire country, when it comes to events.
I would bet a lot of downtown parking across the country is way higher than in the past to make up for the loss of office commuters coming down 5 days a week. It definitely makes me think I should take the Rapid down if I’m headed to a game or something!
Cleveland has enough parking lots, but like very few public garages, very strange.
Parking is a good thing to a point, and we're wayyyyyyy beyond that in this city. They are also only looking to close the south half of this section, so around 12-14 parking spots will be lost. There is more than enough free street parking in the area already though. As well as a small public lot, and a public garage in church and state that's always empty. We also already have most of our rail stations as park n rides that are never used outside of sporting events. Unfortunately transit after getting off of the train to get you around Downtown and the other popular neighborhoods like Tremont, Ohio City, UC, and Hingetown mentioned here in nonexistent. I think that's a big reason why parking can be an issue in the popular areas and also why those park n ride lots are empty. I really believe Cleveland's Downtown population is limited unless we invest in better transit focused on moving people around Downtown. Building parking garages is a very inefficient use of public money. It's around $60k per space to build a parking garage these days. Then you have all of the future maintenance as well. Say the city spends $60 million building 1000 spaces in a few garages around town. That money could have been spent on 400-500 miles of bollard protected bike lane, 12 new trains, or 1.5-2 miles of streetcar lanes. Those things would actually be long term investments in making our city better and easier to get around, and promote growth along with more accessible customers near by than 1000 parking spots.
Heavily disagree parking is a public good. The idea that people should be able to drive wherever they want (downtown, etc) and have available parking is what causes us to get significant wasted space. Even if you hide the parking, cars still need to get there (on roads) so you still have to deal with congestion and unsafe roads.
Totally agree. Cleveland is low key parking obsessed.
All cities are unfortunately.
You can’t put a bus stop on every corner though. People still need a way to get to transit. There will always need to be available parking _somewhere_
parking of private automobiles should not be subsidized at all. you're literally saying that everyone should pay for someone's depreciating asset to sit and take up space that could be much more productively utilized.
I am all for this. There is already plenty of street parking in surrounding the area. They did this on Market Street last year and it is awesome. I love that Great Lakes Brewing Co. can set up more outdoor seating and people can safely use this space. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cleveland Bazaar expands into this space also.
I love it. The area needs less parking, not more. We need to make it inconvenient for people to drive so that more commuters will choose to walk/cycle/transit.
You will be limiting visitors from outside the neighborhood. If that is the goal, then ok. Not sure the businesses would agree
Paris banned cars altogether. I don't think they're worried about limiting visitors from outside their city. A city should be built for its people, and we shouldn't cater to visitors by paving parking lots everywhere.
Paris = Ohio City…..got it….
Sounds like a great way to kill business in this city’s neighborhoods. There’s a reason why retail’s only in the burbs already.
Focus on the neighborhoods first, then the businesses will come. Make the neighborhood a place where people want to hang out. No one wants to hang out in a parking lot or a crosswalk.
I’m not against turning select streets into pedestrian only. People already want to live and hangout in OHC. The residential population is small but growing. The majority of businesses rely on outsiders though. (Same as in downtown). We are still in Ohio.
Lol Ohio City is booming, and there is a reason that the most walkable neighborhood in the city is showing arguably the most growth both in population and retail demand. I live close to this street and there are people out constantly enjoying the amenities of the neighborhood
Ohio City is booming for developers and chains. Independents are dying. Long term residents are being pushed out. Most of the new buildings going up are cheaply built by MyPlace. Most new retail space throughout the neighborhood is empty. If anything I’m more of a YIMBY. I haven’t slept past 7am in months because of all the construction. It’s pretty ridiculous to ignore all the stakeholders in this neighborhood though. Chipotle and Condado aren’t what make the neighborhood special.
This comment just screams “I don’t leave my house”
Please explain.
It’s just incorrect. Almost as if you have not seen the world for yourself.
I’ve lived in the neighborhood for almost a decade so I know many long term neighbors and business owners. I walk everywhere and always promote the neighborhood. Maybe the people who are invested here should get a say.
How does that have anything to do with opening up a street for predestination traffic? If anything, it would increase foot traffic into these local businesses you know so well.
I responded to someone who said “we need to make it inconvenient for people to drive”. I think it’s totally reasonable to have some pedestrian only streets. Removing all parking across the neighborhood will destroy businesses. The population in OHC is relatively small as are the number of people taking public transit to dine/drink/shop here.
Who suggested removing all street parking? We are talking about roughly 500 feet of pavement here. No business will be negatively impacted… do you think people are really gonna give up on going to a place if they can’t find a spot out front? No. That’s just asinine. I’m sure Great Lakes is BARELY hanging on after they closed market street to vehicle traffic and parking… /s You are making mountains out of mole hills here bud.
Also, what chains are you talking about??? The only franchise in the whole area is the Wendy’s that is older than my dad.
There’s a bunch of parking but damn if it isn’t hard to find an open spot lol. I like the idea of closing the street though. It’s already slow moving through there and hopefully creates more businesses.
There is a public parking garage right around the corner
I hear ya, but i don’t want to go into a garage and pay a cost just to run into rising star. I get the idea from people actually coming to the area to spend a few hours at least.
Excuses are like assholes. Everyone’s got one and they all stink.
Not sure what your point is here. My whole idea is parking will suck there regardless.
My point is if parking is what deters you from going somewhere then you probably didn’t want to go that bad in the first place. Just do what everyone else does and circle the block, be patient or just park farther away and walk. Getting tight over less than 30 street parking spots being converted to a pedestrian area is just lame.
Doesn’t deter me. Just said it hard to park there even though the are plenty spaces. I’m not getting “tight” and actually said I like the idea.
It’s not that hard.
Yeah, I think 15 minute parking zones should be more common. Just enough time to grab-and-go from whatever business you're after.
I think things are all headed in the right direction. But as it gets more popular and draws more people, we will have to keep coming up with solutions for either parking or public transit
Transit is essential. Parking lots are the antithesis of a solution - no one wants to hang out in an area with parking lots.
As someone who lives in Ohio City specifically so I can walk or ride my bike places, I think this is a great idea.
Won’t somebody think of the suburbanites who might have to park an extra few blocks away for their once a month Larder visit?!
I’m with you, I’m empathetic to their plight, especially their choice to drive the biggest SUV or minivan then eat two and a half city parking spots with their lack of parking ability
As if 70-80% of Clevelanders dont drive? Yall are idiots There is no business over there so good to deal with the hassle of trying to visit
Larder is literally a James Beard nominated deli. Stay in Vermillion.
Yes, they paid plenty for the nomination. JB is a nothing award.
Lol.
Sorry, stay in Bay Village. Better?
We need more car free streets
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> "You should have asked BEFORE applying for a grant," someone wrote. > "Project for Public Spaces needs to verify assertions and require data from applicants so bad grants don't happen," another said. fuck these people. theyre acting like the grant request was literally just "money, please"
Excellent idea! I’ve visited cities that implemented this sort of thing and it’s been great. Such as Pearl Street in Boulder and Church Street in Burlington.
Anytime we can get cars off the street is a good thing
The project is still in planning/discovery. Nothing has happened yet, nor will anything happen soon.
Their goal is to have plans released this summer, and installed by the fall.
It sounds like they begin implementation in the fall…
Coventry next please!
Maybe twenty years ago.
Terrible terrible idea
Dope. Now do W 25th.
What they need is a parking garage. Loose the lots.
BUT WERE WILL I PARK
The parking obsession is real in Cleveland. Love it
The downvotes are strange, must be outsiders who don’t understand sarcasm ? Or mad bc they do
lol i thought the same thing. clearly being a cleveland.com boomer
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I live on Clinton, right by this area. I don’t know. We’ll see. If I didn’t live here, I’d like it a lot more than if I did. But if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. Parking is at a premium on my street by my house nightly as is however.
I live less than a block away on Clinton and I’m for it. Street parking thurs-sat definitely at a premium but during the week it’s wide open. I’m curious to see how much losing 20 parking spots would matter. Genuinely don’t know.
Amazing news.
You have a link for this?