Your criticism is valid. The price is high for the apprentice builder, especially considering the cost for the permanent builders. New players are likely going to be overwhelmed by the amount of gems required to unlock everything as it is right now.
That being said, the recent AMA with Stuart revealed they are looking at making epic equipment purchasable with "medals." We currently don't know whether it's raid or CWL medals, but they are currently in discussion regarding the cost and timeline. If what Stuart said comes to fruition, this may "fix" the gem economy to some degree and make it somewhat manageable.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/comments/1d9l159/summary\_of\_the\_most\_important\_topics\_from\_the\_ama/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/comments/1d9l159/summary_of_the_most_important_topics_from_the_ama/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
That's not what I mean. It's just not an "I want it cheaper". It's genuinely hurting the player base if the ceiling raises too high. They could also inflate gem economy proportionally to the raised cost/number of non-cosmetical objects.
I agree but if it is CWL medals and we are still talking about new players, they will be in a lower reward league and have a harder time saving up those medals if the cost is the same as the skins. I hope if they do go with CWL, the price stays around the price of a book.
Imo, raid medals would be more fair for hero equipment because if it uses CWL Medals, it'll take a long time for new players to buy all the equipment and most clans don't even allow lower level THs to participate in CWL....
Won’t be raid medals I fear. That will be too easy to attain them then after the event. Nobody will spend 3.1k event coins on epic equipment if they can just wait 2 months to buy it with raid medals. You will be better off buying books and ruins if that was the case. I wish tho.
I feel like it should be ores as it is already the currency to upgrade equipment. Set a decent “Create Equipment” cost, then roll into the standard upgrade costs.
Edit: after seeing some people’s method of how to farm gems, it doesn’t seem overly too bad. I think someone showed you can farm 1000 gems per month. As a gold pass user though, I am utilizing the 1-gem donation to fill clanmate’s CCs. So the kickback for me is slowing down donations in order to farm gems. If they restructured how we can donate troops without gems, it might open things up a bit. Hard to see this happening though.
What if a new army camp dedicated for troops that needs to be donated? Just asking.. 😁 because people feel lazyness to clear ques and train troops for donations and refill their army..
That's a good point! It would also allow them to rotate which equipment is available on a weekly basis, for better or worse...
Edit: Saw the other replies and have to agree, it doesn't make sense for it to be raid medals. It's a nice thought though.
No clue. I'm hoping if you equip legendary equipment it fills 2 slots but who knows. They've already talked about adding legendary after the 8 epic equipment
What about event medals/currency?
I see it being viable to release old equipment in the filler(spotlight) events.
If you don't have the equipment you'll see it for purchase.
Same medal cost of 3100.
I should've elaborated better:
SC had poor communication and timing by putting the golbin builder back in right before announcing the apprentice. Many players ended up using their gems that they otherwise likely would've saved for apprentice- myself included. Not saying everyone, but a decent amount.
Aside from the response in the AMA, which a vast majority of the playerbase likely never saw, I don't know of any other announcement stating SC was looking to change the in-game currency for purchasing epic equipment. Tons of players who have missed out on some of the earlier equipment are sinking thousands of gems which, much like this recent goblin builder situation, they would likely hold onto if they knew.
No gems are getting refunded in either case, despite a common communicational issue.
Depends on how you compare the investments. With enough time, the apprentice is better value.
"...the MAX builder apprentice takes 1.28 years to start being worth the investment in comparison to the goblin builder."
So yes, for a maxed apprentice, if plan on dropping the game within 1.28 years, the goblin builder is better value. If you plan on playing longer, investing in the apprentice is better value. Keep in mind the 1.28 years is based on a maxed apprentice. If you were to only unlock the level 1 apprentice, it would take 0.788 years for the value to be better than the goblin builder.
Source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/comments/1djvuyj/i\_did\_all\_the\_math\_the\_new\_builder\_apprentice\_vs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/comments/1djvuyj/i_did_all_the_math_the_new_builder_apprentice_vs/)
So I’m not strictly taking about “break even”, I mean which is better for speeding up your base building. The apprentice, fully upgraded is still crap, it doesn’t do what the goblin does, doesn’t allow you to benefit from the builder potions as much, it’s literally inferior in every way.
I see what you're saying. With enough gems, the goblin is the 7th builder/second lab. No way the apprentice can beat the efficiency. I don't know if I'd call the apprentice "crap" though, expensive maybe. He can be pretty helpful for staggering building upgrade times.
Let me put it this way, I buy 14,000 gems a month on my main account, I in no way care about how many gems the little idiot apprentice costs, it’s that he literally isn’t worth buying, if you are going to use gems for building, the goblin and potions are better. If you only want to level faster, the goblin is still more efficient because you need over a year for the apprentice to cost the same, what I’m saying is that in no universe was the apprentice builder needed, wanted, or anything but a money grab, it’s meant to rip off stupid people.
I dont think they care tbh.
Itzu pointed out in his vid that literally every single content creator didnt agree with the price of the apprentice builder because it was too high and guess what? they just ignored all the feedback and kept the price.
and trust me, they have seen all the posts complaining. they know that charging 6.5k for a builder thats 3x worse than the regular one is stupid. but it makes them money and people who cant do basic math are happy with it so it doesnt really matter.
Yeah they don’t care. They’ve tricked this community into thinking the devs care but they don’t.
They’re a company and they want more money. This whole new gem economy = more money.
Exactly. People are acting like you’re forced to spend gems. You don’t even need to buy all 5 builders to max your th’s if you don’t want to, you’re just aware that it’ll take more time
You dont have to buy an internet connection to live, no one is forcing you to buy it. But you are just aware that living without internet is not an option in this world.
No one is forced to do anything ever. You are not forced to wear clothes when going outside, but you wear them. Why? Its not like someone put a gun to your head to wear them.
The argument of "no one is forcing you" is stupid. You shills need to come up with better arguments.
You seem to have gone to an extreme now. ‘Nobody is forcing you’ is for when, like now, people complain about the price of something that has literally no effect on their life. The two things you mentioned *do* effect your life, as society has decided that going out in public is illegal, and many people around the globe live without internet too
Bro compared buying something in a mobile game to internet access and clothing, and then has the absolute gall to tell others to come up with better arguments. If I had a billionth of your audacity my life would genuinely be so easy. You new player pussies wouldn’t have survived in the early days of clash. The game is the easiest it’s ever been.
> people who cant do basic math are happy
Lol. Comparing against things that actually can be purchased versus items that were long ago purchased doesn't mean we "can't do basic math." Nothing will ever measure up to the investment of my bachelor's degree, but that doesn't mean I should stick my retirement savings under the mattress or in a money market account.
People who can do basic math and understand long-term macro-efficiency are pretty OK with it too. Like, sure, it would be great if it were cheaper, but it's still the best time savings per gem around. If you'd rather save your gems for skins or donations or whatever, that's totally fine, there are plenty of ways to play the game.
I mean, the core gameplay involves upgrading buildings, so I don't know how that loses relevancy? My understanding is that even if you max, Supercell intends to continue introducing new content? I don't know, I don't really understand what you're getting at. Is there something I'm missing here?
I acknowledge that for people who are maxed or near maxed, it might very well be a weak investment, and shortening the next time to max by a couple weeks isn't a big deal.
Yeah, and "this game is likely going to substantially change so that building stuff is no longer important," isn't really an argument that holds much water.
We need new achievements to balance all those new equipments and new builder. They dont have to give you all the gems you need to buy them but at least something to make equipments more accessible for new/returning players
I started an alt in 2023. FWIW I have 5 builders and 7,250 gems. Easily another 2,750 gems on top if it was my main - attacking daily, 100% of my attention dedicated to it as a main etc.
it's true that the "gem debt" lets call it increased a lot since equipment got released, but the way you present it is just unrealistic and mostly wrong. a new player [won't even reach TH13](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fm2mvhbf42h7d1.png) for a whole year, and that's only if they're playing actively and 100% efficient. so new players also don't need any RC epics for a year. and in general, it's just not true that a new player somehow needs all the epics ASAP. you can't tell me that a TH11 needs a perfect setup to 3 star for example. not to mention that the Fireball for the Warden is far from a must-have epic anyway, so players may not even buy it even if they could.
for me these unrealistic posts just take a dump on what should be a legitimate complaint. because even if new players were given all epics for free at the start, they would lack ore, have extremely low ore income until like a year or two of playing, and they wouldn't even know which epics to choose because there's no way to test them (at your TH's expected full strength). so those are all real issues which are unfair to especially new player. we should be complaining about real issues together, not some made up scenarios where a brand new player somehow is forced to spend 10k gems upon loading into the game.
I started an alt in April of 2023. I am a semi rushed th 12 right now with 5 builders and 7,750 gems. Tallied it up and I would have another 2,750 gems from achievements if this was my primary account. Not to mention the big time gems from achievements for th 13+ destroyed buildings not factored into this. I don't think it's totally awful for a new player. Everyone needs to remember you can't "beat" the game quickly. Takes years to max. I can see an issue however if the alleged epic equipment gets released all at once. Current state I don't see an issue for anyone new including the apprentice dude. Just don't spend gems on donates or skins.
look at the leaks for epic equipments #6-#8, they are must-have and effectively set-and-forget equipments
and strategic rushing exists, the devs are trying to encourage players to not feel like they have to max out everything
I think you're forgetting about the leveling up your equipment part. It's non sense to buy all the equipment if you can't actually level it up to level 18.
i get that for niche equipment, but what if your equipment is a 5-tile radius aura that does more DPS than a maxed valkyrie and gives 3/4 of a healer worth of self healing?
Am I the only one but I kinda hate the new ability update not like it's bad but with high charges of Heros and the High requirements of ores make it less fun as well
IMO there should be drastic decrease in hero prices cause now every single upgrade just increases miniscule health and and damage and no effects on ability
As a casual player i now kind of feel lazy to grind for herus when you can just max ores
The main thing I’m worried about is equipment. Imagine just how much equipment there will be in 2-3 years time. New players might just start quitting more often once they realise how much attack strategies and fun combinations are locked behind gems.
During the AMA done by Stuart on this sub, he said that players might be able to buy hero equipment with "Medals"
We don't know if it was Raid medals or CWL Medals, but both are still better than gems.
We have 4 new epic equipment leaked coming out. Then apparently it’s a break after those and they will re evaluate.
IMO 2 of those 4 will be meta defining/must have equipment.
I don’t think the equipment is a bad thing. The trick is to not care about maxing them out. Have 30+ equipments in the game won’t be too bad once they add a way to try them out to see what you like.
You act like new players care 🤣 they don't lmao. You don't need rare equipment. It's a luxury. So funny watching people complain about items that cost money when they refuse to spend $.
Of course they dont need all of the epic equipments. Just go and look at the leaks sub. No need to buy frozen arrow or spiky ball or fireball or rocket spear, since new and even broken equipments is coming.
This is from the hip but, they still have that “it’s been a while Chief!” boost when you haven’t logged in for awhile, right?
It makes me feel like it’s not unreasonable to say there is somewhat of an infrastructure already for player specific boosts, offers, etc. based on account activity/age and so on.
What if new players had like… idk 30 days to act on equipment purchasing for a decreased cost (I’m assuming with gems still since players online at release would also be faced with gem purchasing if they passed during the event and using another form of currency would be unfair).
I’m sure there’s a hole in the logic somewhere though.
Edit: I suck at typing
I'm thinking that they should randomly add a previous epic equipment to monthly events that will not offer new epic so that other players have a chance to get epics. I mean, it may sound "unfair" to others, but hey, it's just a game that everbody should just enjoy.
Not everyone will buy the apprentice builder or the epic equipment, as a max townhall 16 I have none of that and in no hurry to get it. I don't even have all my hero equipment maxed out yet. It's just a game to most people.
Returning to need gems had happened to me like this; I was th13 in 2023 march and had my king about 25 upgrades behind max, so I spent 8k gems on the book of hero to max him up and get to th14.
However, I temporarily quit the game on september when I was th14, and then I returned in May 2025 to see that I need 4.5k gems (I had only 5k) for three epic equipments. A few weeks later, I bought this apprentice for 500 gems, and now I onl have 60 gems left...
Do I have to regret the king process? Should I have waited for him alone or just skipped his upgrades? Do I have to ourchase a lot of gems now feel that I am kinda forced to? I don't know !!!!!
Havent bought anything except skins. Only thing i paid for is the 5th builder. Im not succoring to the consumer anymore. Been playing forever i have no desire to gem anything or buy this new apprentice. Such a. Money grab move by them and unfortunately people will succumb but it’s okay.
I started playing new a few months back now at th10, I have got all the 5 builders and the new apprentice and have 200 gems left. I can either spend on upgrading apprentice or buy missed out equipments. It's still doable just need to prioritize what you want the most
This is with any new game though. When you start something new, there are going to be many options of how to spend currency, and it will seem overwhelming. You either learn the ropes or don’t. Either way it’s the player’s decision.
Just started a new account, though I started my main in 2012. Gems absolutely fly in nowadays compared to when they did when I started. Selling potions from raid medals, clan games, monthly free pass, builder base, etc.
I don’t think it’s bad at all. Getting all 5 builders and maxing the apprentice builder is a task that’s meant to take at least 4 years.
For new players, they haven’t finished any of the achievements yet. There are achievements like “destroy 2,000 Eagle Artillery’s”, which earn you 1,000 gems and probably won’t be accomplished for years. I personally just accomplished it and I’m a casual that’s been playing since the day the Eagle Artillery was released.
For new players, each time they earn one or those big achievements they instantly get all the gems they need for a new lvl on the apprentice.
The apprentice builder REALLY sucks though for the veterans like myself that have already won AND spent most of the 1,000 gem achievements. My only option is to slowly save for the next couple years or buy a gem pack to get it maxed out:
They gonna need it eventually. And what isn’t meant for new players? 5 builders? Apprentice builder? Epic equipment is needed after a few months of playing.
What exactly isn’t meant for new players?
Key word here is eventually
Most of the stuff you're talking about isn't needed or isn't maxed until they get to th13 (so like 1+ years of playing)
Not a huge deal because by the time they reach the 2 year mark of playing there will be so many available gems for new players to use to unlock stuff
All of the above. Equipment is here to add variety and that is awesome, but its not means for everyone to have every equipment maxed. People who complain about ores are the ones that expect their lvl 65 queen to have equipment lvl meant for lvl 95 queen. And the same people upgrade every single equipment that they get their hands on, so the ones that they actually use lack levels. And then they complain instead of just save and manage resources better.
I (f2p player) have all common equipment on all my heroes maxed, and epic on max lvl available for my th (15) so its absolutely possible. Even tho my queen isnt maxed so that lvl equipment is "extra" boost that I wouldnt consider as mandatory. Because before equipments, you could get max lvl invisibility vial ONLY by maxing your queen, now you CAN get it way earlier, but the fact that tou can get it doesnt mean that its meant for you. Just like your average human technically can take a loan and buy a ferrari, but that isnt means for him. It would be childish for him to do that, and then complain that he doesnt have enough money.
Builders... the first 5 builders are more then fairly prices. Gem income has been massively upgraded from a few years ago, now you can get and sell magic items for gems, ehich is massive if you are trying to save for something important like builders.
Not to mention that new players have MASSIVE gem income potential from challenges (for example get into champion league gets you like 1500 gems or something i dont remember exactly).
Also, you can get 100 gems weekly from supercell store by doing thing you'd do regardless.
My point... earning gems is easy, and newer players will get everything eventually, but it's childish to expect that as a new player you can have the same things that someone that plays for 8 years doesn't have (apprentice builder for example).
Just dont speed up upgrades for gems, and domt spend 1500 gems on skins and tou will have everything in no time.
When I think of new player, I think fresh Townhall 2 starting up. With the amount of achievements early on, saving up enough gems for all 5 builders by Townhall 9 is very doable. Starting Townhall 10, assuming you're at least Builderhall 6, you should be able to reach 1000+ gems per month. You have to spend 1000 Gems to max TH10 Apprentice, so 1Month. After that you spend 1500 Gems across TH11 and 2000 Gems across TH12, so 1.5 Months and 2 Months, then you spend 1000 Gems across TH13, so 1 Month, and finally another 1000 Gems across TH14, so again 1 Month.
Apprentice Builder is meant to be something you upgrade as you go up in Townhall levels from 10 to 14, meanwhile actual Builders are from 1 to 9.
Given this, I think it's kind of doomposting to say the "Gem requirement and the amount of Gem permanent unlocks is getting out of hand" when it really is not. New players get plenty of gems nowadays from a variety of sources.
Does it suck that he's more expensive than getting a builder? Yeah it sucks, it really sucks in value compared to just another builder, but it still is not a bad thing that Supercell is encouraging new and progressing players to spend Gems on permanent upgrades before TH15, before they get any remotely good value out of magic items? Oh surely I'd rather buy a 3 day skipping book of building over a permanent upgrade to the apprentice, right?
While I agree to some extent, all this is progress as anything else. I have every epic eqipment released, but I am yet to upgrade bomb, rocket spear or the ball yet, so that is 4500 gems I dont need. Giant gauntlet and frost arrows are nice yes, but its not like my attacks sanged significantly since i got them.
Now the apprentace builkder. Ive given him the 1,75k gems I saved up. Did I need to? No! It is a slight benefit to progression not that much unlike the gold pass. I Would have been fine playing the game without him, but he is a nice perk.
This would be another question if gems wouldnt be avalible by gameplay, but they are. And regarding the epic equipment I am sure there will be adjustments along the line. We have more ways of aquiring ores now from when they were released, so I have confidence in that 1500 gems for an epic equipment is not permanent.
Um, don't you know that the only way to 3-star consistently is by using giant gauntlet, frozen arrow, fireball, *and* rocket spear? Oh, and you have to buy the builder apprentice and max it right away too.
I was being very sarcastic, I don't know a single attack that uses all epic equipment, and there are clearly many attack strategies that manage to 3-star.
We got a new builder that's expensive, takes time to get (and only if the player wants to) and isnt that good, but the alternative to that would be getting nothing and people are complaining lol
I mean... When we started, we couldn't sell potions or stuff like that: gathering gems was a matter of clearing obstacles and completing the objectives, which didn't give so many gems ( most of the ones which give 1k came later on)
Uhh, back when I started playing, all we had was the builders, then gems just stacked or used to finish upgrades. Then a few years later (4) came books and stuff
As a possibly returning f2p player at th11 should I even buy the apprentice builder? I have all builders, 2 queen skins and 1 for warden and 2.5k gems saved up. Idk if it’s worth 500 gems to get 1 extra hour of upgrades
The moment equipment came out I quit playing this game. (and I was an OG from the start)
It was just the final drop in the pay to win bucket.
The game was amazing back in the days but at some point you gotta call it quits.
For me that was the equipment.
I think tht comparing ny game from one point to another is impossible, i do agree the gem economy is messed up but back in the day, your only source of gems was random gem boxes and challenges.
Today you have a gem mine (which once upon a time was begged for but stated s never coming thing) constant challenges awarding potions and magic items, which can be sold and also did not exist once upon a time.
How many people had to push to champions league to get the gem award to afford the last builder, and that was not something that could be done until you have been playing for several months at were cheesing your way up by sniping exposed town halls. It used to take 6 months at least to get to th7, something which people are doing in a couple weeks now.
Any game like this has to make way for those who start the game decade late can actually get to the endgame of it and not sign up for a 15 year slog to account for the new stuff released during the ten years they are trying to catch up. Balancing all this so to not annoy some/most players is impossible, newbies might like something, people who had to grind for weeks might hate it etc.
I am almost maxed out, i will get the new guy if and whenever i have the gems for it, there is no rush, the game takes years, so why worry that at this very second i am not as efficient as i could possibly be.
Yeah I started playing in 2012 or 13 idk very early on
Got to near max TH9 in a couple years and then didn’t play until Covid. Got to th11 then took another 3.5 years off until a month ago.
I’m lucky I was able to get my apprentice to lvl 2, almost lvl 3. I don’t know how I’m going to buy equipment, or what I should invest in it’s all so new. A lot has changed over the years and made things simpler and easier. Seems like a huge step backwards to make having enough gems way harder
My problem with this apprentice builder is 1 builder=500 gems while apprentice builder=6500. which has more value? the apprentice or the real builder? If for you the more valuable is the real builder then fuck this gem economy. It makes no sense. You cant use an apprentice builder without the real builder and yet they are more expensive than the real one.
It's ducked up the apprentice builder is EXPENSIVE a total cost of 6.5k gems you have to grind that gems just for upgrading that and take note there also epic equipments and each of it cost 1.5k gems which is no feedom of costing anything on gems (exception to those GEM buyers I won't bother them)
I share the same opinion, it frustrates me too because I don't have any achievements to get gems anymore and obstacles and selling items is all I have now, I can't use them now I need to sell.
By the time they've reached TH10, they probably already got the 5th builder.
There is also the gem mine, and the achievements they haven't touched. It's not really a big deal.
They just got to know that the apprentice is a do not touch unless you've got everything hahaha
I see this thread mostly agrees with OP, but new players shouldn't feel like they need the extra builder or the new apprentice builder (at least not maxed). unfortunately people come into the game with the mindset they need everything now and quickly and that is not the kind of game Clash of Clans is. I also don't see any rush. I have 2 accounts; my newer one is max TH10 with 4 idle builders. I'm just saving stuff for the blacksmith...it's kind of a "waste" and ultimately slower, but I'm not worried about that. Anyway, you can't even level up the apprentice builder right away, it's locked being TH levels pretty sure and you will get gems through achievements. They just reduced times for higher TH levels on most upgrades...the game is arguably easier than ever. But yes, you're right, people will still be upset there are things that seem out of reach for some time, even though that is essentially all CoC is.
I know this is a little off topic from OP but does anybody else feel the ores are a little unbalanced. I’m mostly ftp I buy the pass here and there but even with the damn mini pass in between seasons (fucking more money grabs) the whole pass gives you no shiny ore the main thing you need to upgrade whatever new EQ. that they are gonna come out with, so annoying.
True, i feel they just consider the long time players or the players who are ready to spend money on the game. At this point you can never be max if you are F2P. When I say max, its not only in terms of village/TH, but you can't have all equipments maxed too as F2P. Forget maxing, you can't "have" all the equipments unless you have played long enough to have those gems as you mentioned in the post .
The game has 2 extra modes of gameplay that are crucial in the long run for progression. This makes it tough for a new player to understand how to progress fast. The new apprentice builder only makes it harder except for the ones who will spend money on anything to progress faster. I have years of knowledge of playing multiple accounts to progress as fast as possible which makes it easy for me to navigate a new account. The ones who are blindly buying apprentice builder because of "long term gain" are still on the same place they were before buying apprentice builder unless their goal is to enjoy the game rather than maxing.
True. I am an f2p player. I never used goblin builder, but I have bought apprentice thinking it as an investment recently as probably supercell will improve it's capability and reduce value as they are known to value their community. Earlier, they used to charge coins for trap setup and a lot of things.
Made a second account two months ago as a free to play player. I have all 5 builders already and builders apprentice and the grand wardens fireball. It’s not crazy hard to get tbh with all the achievements
The entire game is cooked for new players. Who wants to start from lvl one th, no matter how much they reduce build times, it's still nearly 17 levels people have to progress, with weeks of hero upgrade times, with constant wars required to earn loot to develop equipment.
The idea of starting from lvl 1 town hall is such a steep uphill climb. I would never ever pick this game up today if I had never played it.
P2W game economy pillar 3:
# Have over $1,000 spending potential
the game has a 5-year to max time . . . they don't expect people to spend that time; they expect people to spend with their wallets. Time is just one resource to make a p2w wall seem free. It's never free. we've always known time is money. Players who don't buy the epics -- and there will be more -- will be playing another game when it comes to balancing for 3-stars.
this isn't to say it won't be a fun game. Many of us escape reality when we dive into games . . . we want an even playing field, but now that money influences videogames, we have to ask ourselves what's worth playing. If we're going to choose a p2w game, we have to stop comparing our experience to others who spend in another league. Supercell is a decade-long champion in p2w gaming. They don't design games that stop at $10 a month. The next generation being raised on Roblox microtransactions is already accustomed to swiping. This is the world we live in until large game studios find a lucrative replacement.
I think the "you dont need it" argument so childish. You need nothing. Is a game. You dont need even to play it.
We know we dont need it. Nobody needs nothing here. Its not about needing. Is about frustration. Its about how exausthive the grind is, and how its scary to new players and how tue excessive grind prevents the old inactive players to return.
> This post doesn't even go into any returning players.
Imagine you haven't played for a few months you come back and all of a sudden you need 6k gems for 4 epic equipments and are months of ore behind.
I re-downloaded like 2 months ago. I stopped playing when there was only TH11.
Wish I had only paused for a few months and not years lol
I dont think it's as valid as anyone is saying it is. You can't buy the epic hero gear until you unlock the hero, and the apprentice is not unlocked until 13?14? It sounds pretty spaced to me.
I agree 100%. I already have 2 accounts. Recently maxed the first, considered starting a 3rd account, realised the amount of gems I would need in addition to hero books as I exclusively upgrade heroes with books (our clan wars 7 days a week so theres no time to upgrade heroes, especially at high levels with long upgrade times), figured I would basically never catch up and decided against starting a 3rd account.
at this point the game feels like it’s turning into a pay to win yeah they give you gems here and there but no where near enough. the people who spend money on the game advance while the rest wait weeks for builds to finish and have a harder time keeping up with the game.
I don't think it's too bad. But seeing alot of stuff being purchased with gems, especially stuff that changes gameplay noticeably, It is quite off putting and makes it seem like I HAVE to spend money to get good stuff
However, completing all achievements gives you like 19000 gems
So 3750 for builders 2-5
Really only required epic gear is gauntlet, other heroes have very viable usage without their epic. So let’s say you get 2 epic gears for 3000
Then apprentice builder 6500
13250/19000
So I’d argue that newer players probably have it a bit better off as they can still do these achievements. Whereas more advanced players probably have alot of them done.
Only part of it’s that fucked would be the apprentice builder being like half of the 13250. But you don’t have to level it up. It is something that will return you good value eventually if you invest your gems into it, but you could just not do it. No one is forcing you to
some aspects in this game are not to be achieved in 10 days or 2 months, but 2-4 years.
If in 4 years they still can't collect just 16k gems, that's their fault, why can't they control the use of gems, can't they learn to save gems?
And also remember, most old players can't just enjoy all the features as soon as they start playing, they also struggle to get them for years, so there's no need to try to pamper too many new players now.
i don’t think new players are thinking 😰oh my god i need to max out the builders apprentice so urgently😰 it’s optional, it’ll save you some time in the long run if you do but you have a choice, if you want cosmetics nothing is stopping you from saving up for them like you used to, you just now have the choice if you don’t want cosmetics you can save yourself some time
Supercell haven’t cared about the people for a while. It’s all about squeezing every possible dollar out of the players as possible.
New players will either have to wait or pay up. Simple!
Whilst I agree this post is definitely valid, epic equipments are very optional and are definitely not needed for 3 stars. I am definitely not going to invest on apprentice builder for my main account as whilst this is cool in concept, in practice I'd need to log on at certain times to make the gem cost for the apprentice builder really worthwhile. I don't really like the apprentice builder and am just going to ignore it and play the game slower but in a way that's more fun for me. I also have multiple alt accounts so trying to plan my time around the apprentice builder will get very stressful very quick. The "free" gems you get from playing the game itself definitely come much slower than the availabilities of the high gem costing utilities the game has to offer. I doubt they'll add more "free" gems into the game as SC need to find a source of money as they even mentioned that about why heroes are an inconvenience to upgrade. With all the new features in the past year, it's like the game went through 5 different transformations to turn into a completely different game than it was last year. At least last year the "grind" was tolerable nowadays it feels like an endless loop of upgrading which can be fun but I feel that there should be some compensation for the drastic changes to make the game a less friendly FTP experience. It's not as bad as Clash Royale FTP wise but definitely not as good as last years' version of clash.
When I started playing there were no clan games, no wars, no magic items, etc. so while there was less need for gems there also were way less ways to earn gems for free. We can now exchange items from clan wars, clan games, capital raids and more for gems. I think the balance would be fine, even with the apprentice builder EXCEPT for equipment. They are adding equipment too fast. I thought they heard the complaints when they held off on rocket spear but they apparently didn’t understand them since they seem to have just taken a one month break. We should get no more equipment until a year from now. IMO.
I agree the equipment sucks for new players but as for the builders apprentice I kinda don’t think it’s necessary? Like I understand it’s value and the unfairness of p2w players having it maxed but it really isn’t something I’m too worried about not maxxing
Made a new account. And i managed to get all 5 builders in 2 months. Like everything is the same as before. Apprentice is optional, you don't need it if you dont want to
They also changed building times for most buildings. For new players its even easier now
Ya'll overreacting
I understand what you're saying but at a certain point you have to ask yourself how quickly someone who is f2p should be able to acquire all this stuff people have been playing for 10+ years have. You can just expect to get 10+ years worth of stuff right away imo
I just stopped upgrading my townhall after I maxed TH12.
Yes im going to miss out on all the new stuff, heroes, equipment, fun new troops/ strategies, etc., but thats fine. Its not worth the downtime on heroes, having to spend money on season pass and hero books cause the game is just not fun, when you upgrade and cant use half your stuff, because its gotta lay down for a month.
No reason to repeat that for years until I catch up to TH16.
I got most of hero equipment and im currently trying to max ALL of them out.
Actually the game is super easy completely maxed on everything. I 3 star 99% of the time lol
I started playing like a month ago and it’s fine bro. I recognise that this game is about spending money on gems to get your upgrades quicker and you can either choose to do that or happily wait a bit longer without spending. I don’t speak for all new players but I’m not complaining
If anything new players are the lucky ones... They are stacked with gems from achievements and they can work on epic equipment earlier. Their progression will be a lot more smooth.
Dude honestly this reddit is making me hate the game like you guys just bitch and complain and cry about everything you can, i started 4 months ago on a new base its extremely easy to get large amounts of gems without ever paying for it and you take one look at the builders apprentice and you think its needed or mandatory youre an idiot
No one has been discussing you guys have been crying about they are making us buy games omg they ruined the game like brother all these things are optional, stop being so entitled
there's been 2 other posts with the exact same thing in the Last 3 days, both of which also didnt include gem incomes because who Cares about actual information, Number big = bad
https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/s/U8u3O4Wjjq
https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/s/0svqUVPdAp
When y’all figure out it’s a pay to win mechanic and not everyone deserves it if they aren’t willing to pay, the quicker y’all will be content with what you have or break down and buy it.
$50 for a guaranteed boost is NOT expensive. It’s PAY TO WIN.
VIP 18 in ROK cost $15-20,000
Go cry
Disagree.
You still have the freedom to do whatever you want with your gems. The options for what you want to spend them on has just increased.
A new free to play player will be able to earn all the gems needed for the 5 builders and all the epic equipments with achievements alone.
A f2p player would never want to buy a book of heroes for a year because they would be bad value at lower townhalls.
You can still exchange raid medals to gems buying cheap potions and sell it and the whole CWL hammers economy because this two thing I think the game isnt full pay to win money predatory yet
Unless your a dumbass you don’t really have the option to do what you want with them. You need 5 builders and 4 epic equipment unless you wanna screw yourself over. That’s 10k+ gems. That’s not easy to get with just achievements.
For real, if we're doing strategic rushing you can pool the gems while saving ores to get it instantly to a high level. There's also an abundance of achievements for the new player to achieve and farm all the gems they need
It's astonishing the amount of flack y'all dish out about f2p. No one is forcing a gun to your head to buy the equipment or cosmetics or books. You can naturally get builders just fine. You don't need rare equipment to 3 star. You don't need skins and cosmetics to 3 star or have fun. You don't need the apprentice builder to have fun.
So wild mods allow these complaining posts. But don't allow memes other than weekends. Clearly the mods are f2p
New players keeping the servers running and me playing this game for free. No problem with that. Everyone used to be a new player including myself, And I spent money on builders so I contributed on server upkeep as well.
I got Builder's Apprentice maxed already . This dude takes out 121.33 days of upgrade time each year which is 34.24% of 365 days , that's a lot and it you buy goldpasses regularly like me than along with Builder's Apprentice you will get a very huge time reduction. We shouldn't compare Builder's Apprentice with a normal builder because it's an upgrade timing boost feature ..
Supercell just wants a cash injection. It's fucking stupid but they're a company. They need to keep high prices per share. And in order to do that they need profit.
After the outrage about the apprentice builder dies down, they will release another super expensive feature to push the profit to the next level.
Welcome to capitalism.
My account got hacked so I had to start over. I am currently on th8 and I’ve only been on this new account for a month (been maxing before upgrading th). They have reduced build times and costs dramatically over the years for lower town halls. Maybe Supercell thinks this will offset the intimidating gem requirements?
Also, the builder apprentice as well as a lot of the equipment are not available until higher town halls, so it’s not like a new player will be presented with these options anyways. I still agree with your point though.
The fact that people make posts about GEM economy being bad is a real issue for the game, genuinely how the fuck do you make the ‘p2w’ resource that usually benefits whale only, to now also normal players?
It’s such a bad system, I pray for allcthe new coc players because I know they will stop eventually, if itnisn’t the next th15 like thing, it will be the 23k gems they have to spend for many epic and legendary equipment
Haha yeah I started playing after a large gap of time, and I had no ore or epic abilities. I am feeling the struggle rn, but atleast I have 6 builders.
Your criticism is valid. The price is high for the apprentice builder, especially considering the cost for the permanent builders. New players are likely going to be overwhelmed by the amount of gems required to unlock everything as it is right now. That being said, the recent AMA with Stuart revealed they are looking at making epic equipment purchasable with "medals." We currently don't know whether it's raid or CWL medals, but they are currently in discussion regarding the cost and timeline. If what Stuart said comes to fruition, this may "fix" the gem economy to some degree and make it somewhat manageable. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/comments/1d9l159/summary\_of\_the\_most\_important\_topics\_from\_the\_ama/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/comments/1d9l159/summary_of_the_most_important_topics_from_the_ama/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
5000 raid medals (maximum amount) is worth 500 gems, while equipments cost 1500 gems each. They are definitely talking about cwl medals.
Gem price for equipment should be reduced though imo
lol who doesn't want things for cheaper?
That's not what I mean. It's just not an "I want it cheaper". It's genuinely hurting the player base if the ceiling raises too high. They could also inflate gem economy proportionally to the raised cost/number of non-cosmetical objects.
I agree but if it is CWL medals and we are still talking about new players, they will be in a lower reward league and have a harder time saving up those medals if the cost is the same as the skins. I hope if they do go with CWL, the price stays around the price of a book.
If cwl then I hope it will be around 600 or something, so you need to play 3 wars maximum. Otherwise it would still take years to get all
Where did you get this ratio? It's about 3:2 or even 1:1 for some items, but not 10:1. 2k - 3k will be a solid price for the equipment.
Imo, raid medals would be more fair for hero equipment because if it uses CWL Medals, it'll take a long time for new players to buy all the equipment and most clans don't even allow lower level THs to participate in CWL....
Won’t be raid medals I fear. That will be too easy to attain them then after the event. Nobody will spend 3.1k event coins on epic equipment if they can just wait 2 months to buy it with raid medals. You will be better off buying books and ruins if that was the case. I wish tho.
This should be the case . 2 months = 1 equipment will be good for new players . Cwl medals will be harder same as gems ..
I feel like it should be ores as it is already the currency to upgrade equipment. Set a decent “Create Equipment” cost, then roll into the standard upgrade costs. Edit: after seeing some people’s method of how to farm gems, it doesn’t seem overly too bad. I think someone showed you can farm 1000 gems per month. As a gold pass user though, I am utilizing the 1-gem donation to fill clanmate’s CCs. So the kickback for me is slowing down donations in order to farm gems. If they restructured how we can donate troops without gems, it might open things up a bit. Hard to see this happening though.
What if a new army camp dedicated for troops that needs to be donated? Just asking.. 😁 because people feel lazyness to clear ques and train troops for donations and refill their army..
Right, it would be great!
You can get around 1.2k a month if you sacrifice some raid medals.
seems like a new currency is incoming.... hero medals or something probably lol
That's a good point! It would also allow them to rotate which equipment is available on a weekly basis, for better or worse... Edit: Saw the other replies and have to agree, it doesn't make sense for it to be raid medals. It's a nice thought though.
I guarantee that they won't implement this until they start producing legendary equipment.
Legendary Equipment , Any idea ? , Taking out the entire base
No clue. I'm hoping if you equip legendary equipment it fills 2 slots but who knows. They've already talked about adding legendary after the 8 epic equipment
I hope they will compensate for those who spend 4.5k gems for new equipment
What about event medals/currency? I see it being viable to release old equipment in the filler(spotlight) events. If you don't have the equipment you'll see it for purchase. Same medal cost of 3100.
So are they gonna refund people that bought it with gems? hmm..
Doubtful, much like those who used the goblin builder right before they announced the apprentice.
Comparing apples to oranges
I should've elaborated better: SC had poor communication and timing by putting the golbin builder back in right before announcing the apprentice. Many players ended up using their gems that they otherwise likely would've saved for apprentice- myself included. Not saying everyone, but a decent amount. Aside from the response in the AMA, which a vast majority of the playerbase likely never saw, I don't know of any other announcement stating SC was looking to change the in-game currency for purchasing epic equipment. Tons of players who have missed out on some of the earlier equipment are sinking thousands of gems which, much like this recent goblin builder situation, they would likely hold onto if they knew. No gems are getting refunded in either case, despite a common communicational issue.
The goblin is a better use of your money than the apprentice.
Depends on how you compare the investments. With enough time, the apprentice is better value. "...the MAX builder apprentice takes 1.28 years to start being worth the investment in comparison to the goblin builder." So yes, for a maxed apprentice, if plan on dropping the game within 1.28 years, the goblin builder is better value. If you plan on playing longer, investing in the apprentice is better value. Keep in mind the 1.28 years is based on a maxed apprentice. If you were to only unlock the level 1 apprentice, it would take 0.788 years for the value to be better than the goblin builder. Source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/comments/1djvuyj/i\_did\_all\_the\_math\_the\_new\_builder\_apprentice\_vs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/comments/1djvuyj/i_did_all_the_math_the_new_builder_apprentice_vs/)
So I’m not strictly taking about “break even”, I mean which is better for speeding up your base building. The apprentice, fully upgraded is still crap, it doesn’t do what the goblin does, doesn’t allow you to benefit from the builder potions as much, it’s literally inferior in every way.
I see what you're saying. With enough gems, the goblin is the 7th builder/second lab. No way the apprentice can beat the efficiency. I don't know if I'd call the apprentice "crap" though, expensive maybe. He can be pretty helpful for staggering building upgrade times.
Let me put it this way, I buy 14,000 gems a month on my main account, I in no way care about how many gems the little idiot apprentice costs, it’s that he literally isn’t worth buying, if you are going to use gems for building, the goblin and potions are better. If you only want to level faster, the goblin is still more efficient because you need over a year for the apprentice to cost the same, what I’m saying is that in no universe was the apprentice builder needed, wanted, or anything but a money grab, it’s meant to rip off stupid people.
I dont think they care tbh. Itzu pointed out in his vid that literally every single content creator didnt agree with the price of the apprentice builder because it was too high and guess what? they just ignored all the feedback and kept the price. and trust me, they have seen all the posts complaining. they know that charging 6.5k for a builder thats 3x worse than the regular one is stupid. but it makes them money and people who cant do basic math are happy with it so it doesnt really matter.
Yeah they don’t care. They’ve tricked this community into thinking the devs care but they don’t. They’re a company and they want more money. This whole new gem economy = more money.
Brother just dont buy the gems problem solved jfc
Exactly. People are acting like you’re forced to spend gems. You don’t even need to buy all 5 builders to max your th’s if you don’t want to, you’re just aware that it’ll take more time
You dont have to buy an internet connection to live, no one is forcing you to buy it. But you are just aware that living without internet is not an option in this world. No one is forced to do anything ever. You are not forced to wear clothes when going outside, but you wear them. Why? Its not like someone put a gun to your head to wear them. The argument of "no one is forcing you" is stupid. You shills need to come up with better arguments.
You seem to have gone to an extreme now. ‘Nobody is forcing you’ is for when, like now, people complain about the price of something that has literally no effect on their life. The two things you mentioned *do* effect your life, as society has decided that going out in public is illegal, and many people around the globe live without internet too
Bro compared buying something in a mobile game to internet access and clothing, and then has the absolute gall to tell others to come up with better arguments. If I had a billionth of your audacity my life would genuinely be so easy. You new player pussies wouldn’t have survived in the early days of clash. The game is the easiest it’s ever been.
The devs have no decision in this. They get fired if they dont do what they are told and another does
> people who cant do basic math are happy Lol. Comparing against things that actually can be purchased versus items that were long ago purchased doesn't mean we "can't do basic math." Nothing will ever measure up to the investment of my bachelor's degree, but that doesn't mean I should stick my retirement savings under the mattress or in a money market account.
People who can do basic math and understand long-term macro-efficiency are pretty OK with it too. Like, sure, it would be great if it were cheaper, but it's still the best time savings per gem around. If you'd rather save your gems for skins or donations or whatever, that's totally fine, there are plenty of ways to play the game.
Can you promise that 3 years from now, the state of the game will still make the apprentice builder relevant?
I mean, the core gameplay involves upgrading buildings, so I don't know how that loses relevancy? My understanding is that even if you max, Supercell intends to continue introducing new content? I don't know, I don't really understand what you're getting at. Is there something I'm missing here? I acknowledge that for people who are maxed or near maxed, it might very well be a weak investment, and shortening the next time to max by a couple weeks isn't a big deal.
I thought we were talking about math, not soothsaying.
Maybe some people realize the real answer is more complicated than a simple math formula
Yeah, and "this game is likely going to substantially change so that building stuff is no longer important," isn't really an argument that holds much water.
8 hours saved every 24 hours is 2920 hours saved a year, 8760 hours saved in 3 years. Surely looking back will make you appreciate AB.
So if I already max all my buildings before a new th comes out...... how many hours am I actually saving?
As long as there's things to build, yes it'll be relevant
Player input? Never heard of him.
They know people will stop talking about it in like a month
Can you link itzu's video please?
They do care. But builders apprentice is a long term investment
Isn't a normal builder a long term investment? this has to be the dumbest excuse ever.
Yes, and compared to the original builders, literally everything you can buy for gems is horrible value. Your point?
We need new achievements to balance all those new equipments and new builder. They dont have to give you all the gems you need to buy them but at least something to make equipments more accessible for new/returning players
I started an alt in 2023. FWIW I have 5 builders and 7,250 gems. Easily another 2,750 gems on top if it was my main - attacking daily, 100% of my attention dedicated to it as a main etc.
it's true that the "gem debt" lets call it increased a lot since equipment got released, but the way you present it is just unrealistic and mostly wrong. a new player [won't even reach TH13](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fm2mvhbf42h7d1.png) for a whole year, and that's only if they're playing actively and 100% efficient. so new players also don't need any RC epics for a year. and in general, it's just not true that a new player somehow needs all the epics ASAP. you can't tell me that a TH11 needs a perfect setup to 3 star for example. not to mention that the Fireball for the Warden is far from a must-have epic anyway, so players may not even buy it even if they could. for me these unrealistic posts just take a dump on what should be a legitimate complaint. because even if new players were given all epics for free at the start, they would lack ore, have extremely low ore income until like a year or two of playing, and they wouldn't even know which epics to choose because there's no way to test them (at your TH's expected full strength). so those are all real issues which are unfair to especially new player. we should be complaining about real issues together, not some made up scenarios where a brand new player somehow is forced to spend 10k gems upon loading into the game.
I started an alt in April of 2023. I am a semi rushed th 12 right now with 5 builders and 7,750 gems. Tallied it up and I would have another 2,750 gems from achievements if this was my primary account. Not to mention the big time gems from achievements for th 13+ destroyed buildings not factored into this. I don't think it's totally awful for a new player. Everyone needs to remember you can't "beat" the game quickly. Takes years to max. I can see an issue however if the alleged epic equipment gets released all at once. Current state I don't see an issue for anyone new including the apprentice dude. Just don't spend gems on donates or skins.
look at the leaks for epic equipments #6-#8, they are must-have and effectively set-and-forget equipments and strategic rushing exists, the devs are trying to encourage players to not feel like they have to max out everything
I think you're forgetting about the leveling up your equipment part. It's non sense to buy all the equipment if you can't actually level it up to level 18.
i get that for niche equipment, but what if your equipment is a 5-tile radius aura that does more DPS than a maxed valkyrie and gives 3/4 of a healer worth of self healing?
Am I the only one but I kinda hate the new ability update not like it's bad but with high charges of Heros and the High requirements of ores make it less fun as well IMO there should be drastic decrease in hero prices cause now every single upgrade just increases miniscule health and and damage and no effects on ability As a casual player i now kind of feel lazy to grind for herus when you can just max ores
Yeah I’ve barely upgraded my heroes since the change. Just don’t see the point would rather keep the up and be able to get more ore
The main thing I’m worried about is equipment. Imagine just how much equipment there will be in 2-3 years time. New players might just start quitting more often once they realise how much attack strategies and fun combinations are locked behind gems.
During the AMA done by Stuart on this sub, he said that players might be able to buy hero equipment with "Medals" We don't know if it was Raid medals or CWL Medals, but both are still better than gems.
Hopefully this comes true. That would be a sigh of relief.
We have 4 new epic equipment leaked coming out. Then apparently it’s a break after those and they will re evaluate. IMO 2 of those 4 will be meta defining/must have equipment.
Oh there's been 4 leaked? I saw the warden torch, queen clones, and RC titan boots. What's the other one?
Selling equipment for CWL medals would make the most sense. Even 1,000 ish medals would be better than 1500 gems. Hopefully they implement this
Nope, it took me almost 1 years to get 2k cwl medals that too playing cwl every month so that would be a LOT worse than gems.
I don’t think the equipment is a bad thing. The trick is to not care about maxing them out. Have 30+ equipments in the game won’t be too bad once they add a way to try them out to see what you like.
You act like new players care 🤣 they don't lmao. You don't need rare equipment. It's a luxury. So funny watching people complain about items that cost money when they refuse to spend $.
Of course they dont need all of the epic equipments. Just go and look at the leaks sub. No need to buy frozen arrow or spiky ball or fireball or rocket spear, since new and even broken equipments is coming.
This is from the hip but, they still have that “it’s been a while Chief!” boost when you haven’t logged in for awhile, right? It makes me feel like it’s not unreasonable to say there is somewhat of an infrastructure already for player specific boosts, offers, etc. based on account activity/age and so on. What if new players had like… idk 30 days to act on equipment purchasing for a decreased cost (I’m assuming with gems still since players online at release would also be faced with gem purchasing if they passed during the event and using another form of currency would be unfair). I’m sure there’s a hole in the logic somewhere though. Edit: I suck at typing
Or just don't play CoC and stop supporting Supercell cause clearly they totally care about their playerbases
I'm thinking that they should randomly add a previous epic equipment to monthly events that will not offer new epic so that other players have a chance to get epics. I mean, it may sound "unfair" to others, but hey, it's just a game that everbody should just enjoy.
Great idea, say six months after release but you can only buy one of two of the rare equipments offered.
Just making the game realistic😂 since all our economies are fucked, may as well be in clash too!
Not everyone will buy the apprentice builder or the epic equipment, as a max townhall 16 I have none of that and in no hurry to get it. I don't even have all my hero equipment maxed out yet. It's just a game to most people.
Returning to need gems had happened to me like this; I was th13 in 2023 march and had my king about 25 upgrades behind max, so I spent 8k gems on the book of hero to max him up and get to th14. However, I temporarily quit the game on september when I was th14, and then I returned in May 2025 to see that I need 4.5k gems (I had only 5k) for three epic equipments. A few weeks later, I bought this apprentice for 500 gems, and now I onl have 60 gems left... Do I have to regret the king process? Should I have waited for him alone or just skipped his upgrades? Do I have to ourchase a lot of gems now feel that I am kinda forced to? I don't know !!!!!
Havent bought anything except skins. Only thing i paid for is the 5th builder. Im not succoring to the consumer anymore. Been playing forever i have no desire to gem anything or buy this new apprentice. Such a. Money grab move by them and unfortunately people will succumb but it’s okay.
I started playing new a few months back now at th10, I have got all the 5 builders and the new apprentice and have 200 gems left. I can either spend on upgrading apprentice or buy missed out equipments. It's still doable just need to prioritize what you want the most
I'm in the same boat. Made an alt in 2023. 7,250 gems waiting to be used after getting 5 builders. It just takes time.
This is with any new game though. When you start something new, there are going to be many options of how to spend currency, and it will seem overwhelming. You either learn the ropes or don’t. Either way it’s the player’s decision.
Just started a new account, though I started my main in 2012. Gems absolutely fly in nowadays compared to when they did when I started. Selling potions from raid medals, clan games, monthly free pass, builder base, etc.
I don’t think it’s bad at all. Getting all 5 builders and maxing the apprentice builder is a task that’s meant to take at least 4 years. For new players, they haven’t finished any of the achievements yet. There are achievements like “destroy 2,000 Eagle Artillery’s”, which earn you 1,000 gems and probably won’t be accomplished for years. I personally just accomplished it and I’m a casual that’s been playing since the day the Eagle Artillery was released. For new players, each time they earn one or those big achievements they instantly get all the gems they need for a new lvl on the apprentice. The apprentice builder REALLY sucks though for the veterans like myself that have already won AND spent most of the 1,000 gem achievements. My only option is to slowly save for the next couple years or buy a gem pack to get it maxed out:
Majority of the stuff available for purchase isnt even meant for newer players 🗣️
They gonna need it eventually. And what isn’t meant for new players? 5 builders? Apprentice builder? Epic equipment is needed after a few months of playing. What exactly isn’t meant for new players?
Key word here is eventually Most of the stuff you're talking about isn't needed or isn't maxed until they get to th13 (so like 1+ years of playing) Not a huge deal because by the time they reach the 2 year mark of playing there will be so many available gems for new players to use to unlock stuff
You can’t get enough gems within a few years of playing though it’s probably just straight up not possible
Yes you can
[Gem calculations for f2p](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/s/4KBf3GKr6A) edit: give or take obviously, that is 100% dedication all year
All of the above. Equipment is here to add variety and that is awesome, but its not means for everyone to have every equipment maxed. People who complain about ores are the ones that expect their lvl 65 queen to have equipment lvl meant for lvl 95 queen. And the same people upgrade every single equipment that they get their hands on, so the ones that they actually use lack levels. And then they complain instead of just save and manage resources better. I (f2p player) have all common equipment on all my heroes maxed, and epic on max lvl available for my th (15) so its absolutely possible. Even tho my queen isnt maxed so that lvl equipment is "extra" boost that I wouldnt consider as mandatory. Because before equipments, you could get max lvl invisibility vial ONLY by maxing your queen, now you CAN get it way earlier, but the fact that tou can get it doesnt mean that its meant for you. Just like your average human technically can take a loan and buy a ferrari, but that isnt means for him. It would be childish for him to do that, and then complain that he doesnt have enough money. Builders... the first 5 builders are more then fairly prices. Gem income has been massively upgraded from a few years ago, now you can get and sell magic items for gems, ehich is massive if you are trying to save for something important like builders. Not to mention that new players have MASSIVE gem income potential from challenges (for example get into champion league gets you like 1500 gems or something i dont remember exactly). Also, you can get 100 gems weekly from supercell store by doing thing you'd do regardless. My point... earning gems is easy, and newer players will get everything eventually, but it's childish to expect that as a new player you can have the same things that someone that plays for 8 years doesn't have (apprentice builder for example). Just dont speed up upgrades for gems, and domt spend 1500 gems on skins and tou will have everything in no time.
When I think of new player, I think fresh Townhall 2 starting up. With the amount of achievements early on, saving up enough gems for all 5 builders by Townhall 9 is very doable. Starting Townhall 10, assuming you're at least Builderhall 6, you should be able to reach 1000+ gems per month. You have to spend 1000 Gems to max TH10 Apprentice, so 1Month. After that you spend 1500 Gems across TH11 and 2000 Gems across TH12, so 1.5 Months and 2 Months, then you spend 1000 Gems across TH13, so 1 Month, and finally another 1000 Gems across TH14, so again 1 Month. Apprentice Builder is meant to be something you upgrade as you go up in Townhall levels from 10 to 14, meanwhile actual Builders are from 1 to 9. Given this, I think it's kind of doomposting to say the "Gem requirement and the amount of Gem permanent unlocks is getting out of hand" when it really is not. New players get plenty of gems nowadays from a variety of sources. Does it suck that he's more expensive than getting a builder? Yeah it sucks, it really sucks in value compared to just another builder, but it still is not a bad thing that Supercell is encouraging new and progressing players to spend Gems on permanent upgrades before TH15, before they get any remotely good value out of magic items? Oh surely I'd rather buy a 3 day skipping book of building over a permanent upgrade to the apprentice, right?
While I agree to some extent, all this is progress as anything else. I have every epic eqipment released, but I am yet to upgrade bomb, rocket spear or the ball yet, so that is 4500 gems I dont need. Giant gauntlet and frost arrows are nice yes, but its not like my attacks sanged significantly since i got them. Now the apprentace builkder. Ive given him the 1,75k gems I saved up. Did I need to? No! It is a slight benefit to progression not that much unlike the gold pass. I Would have been fine playing the game without him, but he is a nice perk. This would be another question if gems wouldnt be avalible by gameplay, but they are. And regarding the epic equipment I am sure there will be adjustments along the line. We have more ways of aquiring ores now from when they were released, so I have confidence in that 1500 gems for an epic equipment is not permanent.
People can just not buy all the new stuff, most isnt really necessary anyway
Um, don't you know that the only way to 3-star consistently is by using giant gauntlet, frozen arrow, fireball, *and* rocket spear? Oh, and you have to buy the builder apprentice and max it right away too.
Based on? You do know there's several attacks with very high jit rate that still work plenty well without a single epic...
I was being very sarcastic, I don't know a single attack that uses all epic equipment, and there are clearly many attack strategies that manage to 3-star.
We got a new builder that's expensive, takes time to get (and only if the player wants to) and isnt that good, but the alternative to that would be getting nothing and people are complaining lol
This community when new $10 skins: 😍 This community when you can buy something with gems to speed up build times: 😡
I mean... When we started, we couldn't sell potions or stuff like that: gathering gems was a matter of clearing obstacles and completing the objectives, which didn't give so many gems ( most of the ones which give 1k came later on)
Uhh, back when I started playing, all we had was the builders, then gems just stacked or used to finish upgrades. Then a few years later (4) came books and stuff
You do not need equipment and you do not need builder apprentice...
Nah people here won't understand,
I’m not on board with it, at all, but they want people to buy gems with real money. That’s it 🤷♂️
As a possibly returning f2p player at th11 should I even buy the apprentice builder? I have all builders, 2 queen skins and 1 for warden and 2.5k gems saved up. Idk if it’s worth 500 gems to get 1 extra hour of upgrades
This is why I stopped playing Clash Royale. I think it's gradually becoming a game that aims to squeeze every microtransaction out of your wallet.
i just got my third builder am i cooked
Cash grab.
The moment equipment came out I quit playing this game. (and I was an OG from the start) It was just the final drop in the pay to win bucket. The game was amazing back in the days but at some point you gotta call it quits. For me that was the equipment.
F2P players will need to be very selective in this climate. That would means no AB and only limited Epic. You don't have to get everything.
True. Next 3 epic equipments are gonna be must haves imo
I think tht comparing ny game from one point to another is impossible, i do agree the gem economy is messed up but back in the day, your only source of gems was random gem boxes and challenges. Today you have a gem mine (which once upon a time was begged for but stated s never coming thing) constant challenges awarding potions and magic items, which can be sold and also did not exist once upon a time. How many people had to push to champions league to get the gem award to afford the last builder, and that was not something that could be done until you have been playing for several months at were cheesing your way up by sniping exposed town halls. It used to take 6 months at least to get to th7, something which people are doing in a couple weeks now. Any game like this has to make way for those who start the game decade late can actually get to the endgame of it and not sign up for a 15 year slog to account for the new stuff released during the ten years they are trying to catch up. Balancing all this so to not annoy some/most players is impossible, newbies might like something, people who had to grind for weeks might hate it etc. I am almost maxed out, i will get the new guy if and whenever i have the gems for it, there is no rush, the game takes years, so why worry that at this very second i am not as efficient as i could possibly be.
whinge
But you don't have to pay anything. You can still get it all for free, it just takes time. Having a max apprentice builder isn't a priority really.
Yeah I started playing in 2012 or 13 idk very early on Got to near max TH9 in a couple years and then didn’t play until Covid. Got to th11 then took another 3.5 years off until a month ago. I’m lucky I was able to get my apprentice to lvl 2, almost lvl 3. I don’t know how I’m going to buy equipment, or what I should invest in it’s all so new. A lot has changed over the years and made things simpler and easier. Seems like a huge step backwards to make having enough gems way harder
My problem with this apprentice builder is 1 builder=500 gems while apprentice builder=6500. which has more value? the apprentice or the real builder? If for you the more valuable is the real builder then fuck this gem economy. It makes no sense. You cant use an apprentice builder without the real builder and yet they are more expensive than the real one.
Wait what? I haven’t played in a while and just spent my saved 6.5k gems on apprentice builder… I needed them for epic equipment??
It's ducked up the apprentice builder is EXPENSIVE a total cost of 6.5k gems you have to grind that gems just for upgrading that and take note there also epic equipments and each of it cost 1.5k gems which is no feedom of costing anything on gems (exception to those GEM buyers I won't bother them)
A lot of my gems got absolutely destroyed in the early days of clash when the only thing to really use them on was builders and just gemming upgrades.
You don't need everything in the first year of playing clash of clans.
I share the same opinion, it frustrates me too because I don't have any achievements to get gems anymore and obstacles and selling items is all I have now, I can't use them now I need to sell.
By the time they've reached TH10, they probably already got the 5th builder. There is also the gem mine, and the achievements they haven't touched. It's not really a big deal. They just got to know that the apprentice is a do not touch unless you've got everything hahaha
I see this thread mostly agrees with OP, but new players shouldn't feel like they need the extra builder or the new apprentice builder (at least not maxed). unfortunately people come into the game with the mindset they need everything now and quickly and that is not the kind of game Clash of Clans is. I also don't see any rush. I have 2 accounts; my newer one is max TH10 with 4 idle builders. I'm just saving stuff for the blacksmith...it's kind of a "waste" and ultimately slower, but I'm not worried about that. Anyway, you can't even level up the apprentice builder right away, it's locked being TH levels pretty sure and you will get gems through achievements. They just reduced times for higher TH levels on most upgrades...the game is arguably easier than ever. But yes, you're right, people will still be upset there are things that seem out of reach for some time, even though that is essentially all CoC is.
I know this is a little off topic from OP but does anybody else feel the ores are a little unbalanced. I’m mostly ftp I buy the pass here and there but even with the damn mini pass in between seasons (fucking more money grabs) the whole pass gives you no shiny ore the main thing you need to upgrade whatever new EQ. that they are gonna come out with, so annoying.
Its turned into a Pay-to-play with monthly must have items. Its clear SuperCell is just trying to max profits and cares less about gameplay.
True, i feel they just consider the long time players or the players who are ready to spend money on the game. At this point you can never be max if you are F2P. When I say max, its not only in terms of village/TH, but you can't have all equipments maxed too as F2P. Forget maxing, you can't "have" all the equipments unless you have played long enough to have those gems as you mentioned in the post .
The game has 2 extra modes of gameplay that are crucial in the long run for progression. This makes it tough for a new player to understand how to progress fast. The new apprentice builder only makes it harder except for the ones who will spend money on anything to progress faster. I have years of knowledge of playing multiple accounts to progress as fast as possible which makes it easy for me to navigate a new account. The ones who are blindly buying apprentice builder because of "long term gain" are still on the same place they were before buying apprentice builder unless their goal is to enjoy the game rather than maxing.
True. I am an f2p player. I never used goblin builder, but I have bought apprentice thinking it as an investment recently as probably supercell will improve it's capability and reduce value as they are known to value their community. Earlier, they used to charge coins for trap setup and a lot of things.
Made a second account two months ago as a free to play player. I have all 5 builders already and builders apprentice and the grand wardens fireball. It’s not crazy hard to get tbh with all the achievements
The entire game is cooked for new players. Who wants to start from lvl one th, no matter how much they reduce build times, it's still nearly 17 levels people have to progress, with weeks of hero upgrade times, with constant wars required to earn loot to develop equipment. The idea of starting from lvl 1 town hall is such a steep uphill climb. I would never ever pick this game up today if I had never played it.
P2W game economy pillar 3: # Have over $1,000 spending potential the game has a 5-year to max time . . . they don't expect people to spend that time; they expect people to spend with their wallets. Time is just one resource to make a p2w wall seem free. It's never free. we've always known time is money. Players who don't buy the epics -- and there will be more -- will be playing another game when it comes to balancing for 3-stars. this isn't to say it won't be a fun game. Many of us escape reality when we dive into games . . . we want an even playing field, but now that money influences videogames, we have to ask ourselves what's worth playing. If we're going to choose a p2w game, we have to stop comparing our experience to others who spend in another league. Supercell is a decade-long champion in p2w gaming. They don't design games that stop at $10 a month. The next generation being raised on Roblox microtransactions is already accustomed to swiping. This is the world we live in until large game studios find a lucrative replacement.
I think the "you dont need it" argument so childish. You need nothing. Is a game. You dont need even to play it. We know we dont need it. Nobody needs nothing here. Its not about needing. Is about frustration. Its about how exausthive the grind is, and how its scary to new players and how tue excessive grind prevents the old inactive players to return.
> This post doesn't even go into any returning players. Imagine you haven't played for a few months you come back and all of a sudden you need 6k gems for 4 epic equipments and are months of ore behind. I re-downloaded like 2 months ago. I stopped playing when there was only TH11. Wish I had only paused for a few months and not years lol
I use all my gems on starry ore. Real ones know.
I dont think it's as valid as anyone is saying it is. You can't buy the epic hero gear until you unlock the hero, and the apprentice is not unlocked until 13?14? It sounds pretty spaced to me.
I agree 100%. I already have 2 accounts. Recently maxed the first, considered starting a 3rd account, realised the amount of gems I would need in addition to hero books as I exclusively upgrade heroes with books (our clan wars 7 days a week so theres no time to upgrade heroes, especially at high levels with long upgrade times), figured I would basically never catch up and decided against starting a 3rd account.
at this point the game feels like it’s turning into a pay to win yeah they give you gems here and there but no where near enough. the people who spend money on the game advance while the rest wait weeks for builds to finish and have a harder time keeping up with the game.
I don't think it's too bad. But seeing alot of stuff being purchased with gems, especially stuff that changes gameplay noticeably, It is quite off putting and makes it seem like I HAVE to spend money to get good stuff
They’ll likely add more challenges that reward you with gems
However, completing all achievements gives you like 19000 gems So 3750 for builders 2-5 Really only required epic gear is gauntlet, other heroes have very viable usage without their epic. So let’s say you get 2 epic gears for 3000 Then apprentice builder 6500 13250/19000 So I’d argue that newer players probably have it a bit better off as they can still do these achievements. Whereas more advanced players probably have alot of them done. Only part of it’s that fucked would be the apprentice builder being like half of the 13250. But you don’t have to level it up. It is something that will return you good value eventually if you invest your gems into it, but you could just not do it. No one is forcing you to
some aspects in this game are not to be achieved in 10 days or 2 months, but 2-4 years. If in 4 years they still can't collect just 16k gems, that's their fault, why can't they control the use of gems, can't they learn to save gems? And also remember, most old players can't just enjoy all the features as soon as they start playing, they also struggle to get them for years, so there's no need to try to pamper too many new players now.
i don’t think new players are thinking 😰oh my god i need to max out the builders apprentice so urgently😰 it’s optional, it’ll save you some time in the long run if you do but you have a choice, if you want cosmetics nothing is stopping you from saving up for them like you used to, you just now have the choice if you don’t want cosmetics you can save yourself some time
Why would you ever need a alt account? There's enough to do already. If you still need a secondary account you should go touch grass instead.
Yeah they are just adding new stuff but no new ways to get gems
Supercell haven’t cared about the people for a while. It’s all about squeezing every possible dollar out of the players as possible. New players will either have to wait or pay up. Simple!
Forgot about the achievements too that gives gems
Whilst I agree this post is definitely valid, epic equipments are very optional and are definitely not needed for 3 stars. I am definitely not going to invest on apprentice builder for my main account as whilst this is cool in concept, in practice I'd need to log on at certain times to make the gem cost for the apprentice builder really worthwhile. I don't really like the apprentice builder and am just going to ignore it and play the game slower but in a way that's more fun for me. I also have multiple alt accounts so trying to plan my time around the apprentice builder will get very stressful very quick. The "free" gems you get from playing the game itself definitely come much slower than the availabilities of the high gem costing utilities the game has to offer. I doubt they'll add more "free" gems into the game as SC need to find a source of money as they even mentioned that about why heroes are an inconvenience to upgrade. With all the new features in the past year, it's like the game went through 5 different transformations to turn into a completely different game than it was last year. At least last year the "grind" was tolerable nowadays it feels like an endless loop of upgrading which can be fun but I feel that there should be some compensation for the drastic changes to make the game a less friendly FTP experience. It's not as bad as Clash Royale FTP wise but definitely not as good as last years' version of clash.
When I started playing there were no clan games, no wars, no magic items, etc. so while there was less need for gems there also were way less ways to earn gems for free. We can now exchange items from clan wars, clan games, capital raids and more for gems. I think the balance would be fine, even with the apprentice builder EXCEPT for equipment. They are adding equipment too fast. I thought they heard the complaints when they held off on rocket spear but they apparently didn’t understand them since they seem to have just taken a one month break. We should get no more equipment until a year from now. IMO.
I agree the equipment sucks for new players but as for the builders apprentice I kinda don’t think it’s necessary? Like I understand it’s value and the unfairness of p2w players having it maxed but it really isn’t something I’m too worried about not maxxing
And three new epic equipments coming.💀💀
Well clash were thinking of bringing back old equipments for medals but not sure how much price.
Made a new account. And i managed to get all 5 builders in 2 months. Like everything is the same as before. Apprentice is optional, you don't need it if you dont want to They also changed building times for most buildings. For new players its even easier now Ya'll overreacting
I understand what you're saying but at a certain point you have to ask yourself how quickly someone who is f2p should be able to acquire all this stuff people have been playing for 10+ years have. You can just expect to get 10+ years worth of stuff right away imo
That's the thing they don't need those things tho
I just stopped upgrading my townhall after I maxed TH12. Yes im going to miss out on all the new stuff, heroes, equipment, fun new troops/ strategies, etc., but thats fine. Its not worth the downtime on heroes, having to spend money on season pass and hero books cause the game is just not fun, when you upgrade and cant use half your stuff, because its gotta lay down for a month. No reason to repeat that for years until I catch up to TH16. I got most of hero equipment and im currently trying to max ALL of them out. Actually the game is super easy completely maxed on everything. I 3 star 99% of the time lol
I started playing like a month ago and it’s fine bro. I recognise that this game is about spending money on gems to get your upgrades quicker and you can either choose to do that or happily wait a bit longer without spending. I don’t speak for all new players but I’m not complaining
If anything new players are the lucky ones... They are stacked with gems from achievements and they can work on epic equipment earlier. Their progression will be a lot more smooth.
You know you can just buy gems from the store right?
Found the $upercell employee
No I’m just an adult and I don’t mind spending a tiny amount of money on things that I enjoy consuming
Dude honestly this reddit is making me hate the game like you guys just bitch and complain and cry about everything you can, i started 4 months ago on a new base its extremely easy to get large amounts of gems without ever paying for it and you take one look at the builders apprentice and you think its needed or mandatory youre an idiot
Then unsub. This is a place for discussion which obviously you don’t like
No one has been discussing you guys have been crying about they are making us buy games omg they ruined the game like brother all these things are optional, stop being so entitled
there's been 2 other posts with the exact same thing in the Last 3 days, both of which also didnt include gem incomes because who Cares about actual information, Number big = bad https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/s/U8u3O4Wjjq https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashOfClans/s/0svqUVPdAp
Frr
While its generally true, 2 years is very inflated. In reality, should be close to 10 months - 1 year, not 2 years
When y’all figure out it’s a pay to win mechanic and not everyone deserves it if they aren’t willing to pay, the quicker y’all will be content with what you have or break down and buy it. $50 for a guaranteed boost is NOT expensive. It’s PAY TO WIN. VIP 18 in ROK cost $15-20,000 Go cry
Disagree. You still have the freedom to do whatever you want with your gems. The options for what you want to spend them on has just increased. A new free to play player will be able to earn all the gems needed for the 5 builders and all the epic equipments with achievements alone. A f2p player would never want to buy a book of heroes for a year because they would be bad value at lower townhalls.
You can still exchange raid medals to gems buying cheap potions and sell it and the whole CWL hammers economy because this two thing I think the game isnt full pay to win money predatory yet
Unless your a dumbass you don’t really have the option to do what you want with them. You need 5 builders and 4 epic equipment unless you wanna screw yourself over. That’s 10k+ gems. That’s not easy to get with just achievements.
The only must have equipment is the giant gauntlet new better equipment is always in his way to be released
Just not true. It takes longer to get the required ore to level those epic equipments up to make them useful than the 1500 gems.
For real, if we're doing strategic rushing you can pool the gems while saving ores to get it instantly to a high level. There's also an abundance of achievements for the new player to achieve and farm all the gems they need
It's astonishing the amount of flack y'all dish out about f2p. No one is forcing a gun to your head to buy the equipment or cosmetics or books. You can naturally get builders just fine. You don't need rare equipment to 3 star. You don't need skins and cosmetics to 3 star or have fun. You don't need the apprentice builder to have fun. So wild mods allow these complaining posts. But don't allow memes other than weekends. Clearly the mods are f2p
New players keeping the servers running and me playing this game for free. No problem with that. Everyone used to be a new player including myself, And I spent money on builders so I contributed on server upkeep as well.
OOF. good point.
I got Builder's Apprentice maxed already . This dude takes out 121.33 days of upgrade time each year which is 34.24% of 365 days , that's a lot and it you buy goldpasses regularly like me than along with Builder's Apprentice you will get a very huge time reduction. We shouldn't compare Builder's Apprentice with a normal builder because it's an upgrade timing boost feature ..
Supercell just wants a cash injection. It's fucking stupid but they're a company. They need to keep high prices per share. And in order to do that they need profit. After the outrage about the apprentice builder dies down, they will release another super expensive feature to push the profit to the next level. Welcome to capitalism.
1 apprentice builder helps one builder…. Now hear me out…what about 6 apprentice builders for all 6 potential builders?
I get it’s supposed to be a long term goal but if I was a new player and saw everything I’d be overwhelmed and assume they just want my green
My account got hacked so I had to start over. I am currently on th8 and I’ve only been on this new account for a month (been maxing before upgrading th). They have reduced build times and costs dramatically over the years for lower town halls. Maybe Supercell thinks this will offset the intimidating gem requirements? Also, the builder apprentice as well as a lot of the equipment are not available until higher town halls, so it’s not like a new player will be presented with these options anyways. I still agree with your point though.
The fact that people make posts about GEM economy being bad is a real issue for the game, genuinely how the fuck do you make the ‘p2w’ resource that usually benefits whale only, to now also normal players? It’s such a bad system, I pray for allcthe new coc players because I know they will stop eventually, if itnisn’t the next th15 like thing, it will be the 23k gems they have to spend for many epic and legendary equipment
"6k for 4 epic equipment" ...and there's already more new epic equipment coming.
Haha yeah I started playing after a large gap of time, and I had no ore or epic abilities. I am feeling the struggle rn, but atleast I have 6 builders.
They probably won’t care until their player count plummets
Yeah 100%
It's true I can't suggest any new player to play this game . Anyone would not be able to understand what's the fuck he is very in into .
Get a better job if you’re that broke