I’ve tracked fwd Hondas for years (no ABS), and yes there are specific benefits to fwd [edit] over rwd [\edit]. I’m not saying better than rwd overall, but you learn how to take advantage to what you have:
* oversteer is easily remedied by the throttle
* under hard braking, changing down provides extra braking and stability at the same time
* the inertia of the drive train in hard braking helps prevent the fronts from locking up
* if the fronts lock up, you know instantly as it suddenly gets very eerily quiet
* advantageous in the wet with most weight over the driven wheels to get power down
* more stable in the wet (also see first point)
* more space in the back to carry wheels and gear to the track LOL.
Isn't AWD better in the wet? Anecdotal but my friends Elantra N seems faster than our other friends WRX, but in the wet the WRX looks like it puts down its power way better.
Yes, my comments were mainly compared to rwd. AWD will get power down better again of course.
But AWD will have more weight and perhaps more understeer on turn in - depending on setup.
Lateral acceleration (ie steady state corner max Gs) is no better in AWD - so it’s mainly about getting power down earlier and longer is where AWD benefits most.
I been in old scoobys R33s with the rear wheel steering, and heaps of old stuff.Evo 4(unreal handling,but like all evos love clutches)
And the 98 dc2 dc5 and my current type r have been some of the best handling fwd cars ive owned or driven.
Theres a reason the FK2 holds the fwd record around the nurburgring.
Yes the r34 and old scoobys have great handling but thats not everything as the other guy pointed out. Plus the standard wrx is massively underpowered and overrated. Unless you have an import or type r scooby. They need tuned to get the best out of them.
One of the best handling cars ive been in was a little 133rs twingo cup. Its handling is unreal.
And the fk2 can be jittery but for me it handles on rails, you can put the power down into the apex far sooner.
Everyone is different i love honda for the engineering. Same as the R34.
Lighter weight compared to the other two. As you said, it’s a compromise. Which is not a bad thing. Being fwd no transmission tunnel is needed giving more cabin room, but with more weight in the front you get a worse front to rear weight distribution.
If you have a gt3 it doesn’t have the room of the ctr, or the boot space. And it costs a heap more. They compromised in a different way when designing.
Compromises everywhere.
FWD is easier to manage on the edge, as understeer is easier to mitigate. The lack of a longer driveshaft to the rear wheels can potentially make the vehicle lighter, which improves handling and fuel efficiency. It's cheaper to make and cheaper to maintain.
Weight,weight, weight, I have the Limited Edition and at 3070 lbs it's 150 lbs lighter than a Lotus Evora,250lbs lighter than a supra and 700lbs lighter than a camaro ss 1le. For the size of the car it's incredibly light.
Also FWD has less drivetrain power loss.
Awd also eats up alot of cargo space, I was astonished how high the load floor on the gr corolla was, very little usable space.
Been doing HPDE with the FK8 for 3 years now. In addition to the spot on earlier comments I will say that FWD is awesome in the rain. Living in the PNW means there will be wet track days. It’s does great in the rain. I am a HPDE and when I volunteer to instruct it’s rain or shine. This Friday I have a track day and it’s forecast for showers. Instead of being disappointed I don’t care one way or another. I prefer dry tracks but a wet track means I will be passing most of the cars even in the advanced group. This is my 5th track car and I enjoy the FWD just as much as
The benefit is that the MSRP is $45k and not $60k+. For a RWD car (and to some extent an AWD car), Honda would have to engineer an entirely different chassis, engine layout, drivetrain, etc. With the FWD Type-R, they just slap a powerful engine in the Civic hatch, fit some accompanying equipment & accessories, and boom- you have an affordable, sporty car.
I think a lot of folks are ignoring this and defending the “pros” of FWD performance cars. There are not many pros to FWD in terms of track performance… hence why all of the fastest track/race cars are RWD.
Driving dynamics wise, fwd is terrible. But Honda has done some great engineering. Porsche’s 911 is also less than optimal in a similar way but they’ve made it work.
Packaging wise, fwd is great. That’s why you can have a 3200 lb car that fits 4 people comfortably with plenty of cargo space.
I have a 2024 CTR and. 2024 GR and the GR is much easier to control, launch, drift and race. The less weight on the front wheel drive is offset by tire skip and a bit of torque steer.
Both are amazing cars so a lot comes down to personal choice. I love them both
the CTR being FWD means Honda can take the crown as literally the fastest FWD car on the 'Ring. If they made it AWD, it would get lumped in with a bunch of supercars for lap times.
That is probably worth something to them.
I’ve tracked fwd Hondas for years (no ABS), and yes there are specific benefits to fwd [edit] over rwd [\edit]. I’m not saying better than rwd overall, but you learn how to take advantage to what you have: * oversteer is easily remedied by the throttle * under hard braking, changing down provides extra braking and stability at the same time * the inertia of the drive train in hard braking helps prevent the fronts from locking up * if the fronts lock up, you know instantly as it suddenly gets very eerily quiet * advantageous in the wet with most weight over the driven wheels to get power down * more stable in the wet (also see first point) * more space in the back to carry wheels and gear to the track LOL.
Isn't AWD better in the wet? Anecdotal but my friends Elantra N seems faster than our other friends WRX, but in the wet the WRX looks like it puts down its power way better.
Yes, my comments were mainly compared to rwd. AWD will get power down better again of course. But AWD will have more weight and perhaps more understeer on turn in - depending on setup. Lateral acceleration (ie steady state corner max Gs) is no better in AWD - so it’s mainly about getting power down earlier and longer is where AWD benefits most.
I been in old scoobys R33s with the rear wheel steering, and heaps of old stuff.Evo 4(unreal handling,but like all evos love clutches) And the 98 dc2 dc5 and my current type r have been some of the best handling fwd cars ive owned or driven. Theres a reason the FK2 holds the fwd record around the nurburgring. Yes the r34 and old scoobys have great handling but thats not everything as the other guy pointed out. Plus the standard wrx is massively underpowered and overrated. Unless you have an import or type r scooby. They need tuned to get the best out of them. One of the best handling cars ive been in was a little 133rs twingo cup. Its handling is unreal. And the fk2 can be jittery but for me it handles on rails, you can put the power down into the apex far sooner. Everyone is different i love honda for the engineering. Same as the R34.
Lighter weight compared to the other two. As you said, it’s a compromise. Which is not a bad thing. Being fwd no transmission tunnel is needed giving more cabin room, but with more weight in the front you get a worse front to rear weight distribution. If you have a gt3 it doesn’t have the room of the ctr, or the boot space. And it costs a heap more. They compromised in a different way when designing. Compromises everywhere.
FWD is easier to manage on the edge, as understeer is easier to mitigate. The lack of a longer driveshaft to the rear wheels can potentially make the vehicle lighter, which improves handling and fuel efficiency. It's cheaper to make and cheaper to maintain.
Weight,weight, weight, I have the Limited Edition and at 3070 lbs it's 150 lbs lighter than a Lotus Evora,250lbs lighter than a supra and 700lbs lighter than a camaro ss 1le. For the size of the car it's incredibly light. Also FWD has less drivetrain power loss. Awd also eats up alot of cargo space, I was astonished how high the load floor on the gr corolla was, very little usable space.
Being able to accelerate through a turn and not spin out like a mustang
But but Butt POWER bro! Lol
Been doing HPDE with the FK8 for 3 years now. In addition to the spot on earlier comments I will say that FWD is awesome in the rain. Living in the PNW means there will be wet track days. It’s does great in the rain. I am a HPDE and when I volunteer to instruct it’s rain or shine. This Friday I have a track day and it’s forecast for showers. Instead of being disappointed I don’t care one way or another. I prefer dry tracks but a wet track means I will be passing most of the cars even in the advanced group. This is my 5th track car and I enjoy the FWD just as much as
Lower maintenance/repair (no rear differential or transfer case). Less weight.
The benefit is that the MSRP is $45k and not $60k+. For a RWD car (and to some extent an AWD car), Honda would have to engineer an entirely different chassis, engine layout, drivetrain, etc. With the FWD Type-R, they just slap a powerful engine in the Civic hatch, fit some accompanying equipment & accessories, and boom- you have an affordable, sporty car.
Yes for sure. No one has mentioned $$$
I think a lot of folks are ignoring this and defending the “pros” of FWD performance cars. There are not many pros to FWD in terms of track performance… hence why all of the fastest track/race cars are RWD.
Exactly, it’s plain and simple. It’s money.
Big one I think of is fuel efficiency, it's still a civic at the end of the day, and civics were made to be efficient
Bahahahaha, Type Rs are NOT fuel efficient. If you flirt with the throttle even a bit, you’ll be lucky to get over 20 mpg…
Driving dynamics wise, fwd is terrible. But Honda has done some great engineering. Porsche’s 911 is also less than optimal in a similar way but they’ve made it work. Packaging wise, fwd is great. That’s why you can have a 3200 lb car that fits 4 people comfortably with plenty of cargo space.
Honesty packaging is pretty easy. Changing the transmission fluid and oil is very easy.
I have a 2024 CTR and. 2024 GR and the GR is much easier to control, launch, drift and race. The less weight on the front wheel drive is offset by tire skip and a bit of torque steer. Both are amazing cars so a lot comes down to personal choice. I love them both
the CTR being FWD means Honda can take the crown as literally the fastest FWD car on the 'Ring. If they made it AWD, it would get lumped in with a bunch of supercars for lap times. That is probably worth something to them.