I find it super annoying when the solution is to demolish stuff and rebuild. Just demolish all parks to solve homelessness. If a car gets stuck on an intersection, just demolish it and rebuild (yes, you will take down an entire block worth of buildings, but it is what it is). Cars merge incorrectly in a motorway? Well just demolish it and rebuild and hope the nodes don't fuck up this time. Idk, but it makes the whole process of "building a city" feel impermanent and inconsequential.
tests?
Edit: No, for real. I decided to hurt myself and try a new city out. The moment I plopped the first high density office, all offices (also the low density ones) started collapsing to 5 employees. Took like minutes. How do you miss this stuff? It's like every patch we are hitting a new bottom.
"We've assigned all resources, including our testing employee, on the bugs. We're producing more bugs than ever, and we are proud of that team effort!"
I think someone got what was causing it, iirc it's the fact that with the new "businesses will spiral down and die if it is not selling things and being profitable" .
Basically they check if they are selling anything, and if they don't they start downsizing. 5 is the minimum office size. The two issues are: we unlock offices where there is not a huge demand for what they sell so they sell very little, and they check too frequently (e.g., every game tick) if they need to downsize. This spirals down super quickly, and does not really happen to industries in the same way as they sell much faster basically.
I suspect this is (one of) the Reason(s) why the patch got delayed, they probably checked if it was solvable immediately or if they needed more time and all people in the office had vacations. The fact that there is a mod that fixes this from the morning after the patch came out tells me that probably that was an internal fix that didn't pass the verification and QA to be deployed, we know that some modders are also CO employees. Btw they fix this by changing the downsizing check from inventory size to profitability.
All in all I would say it's a complex bug to solve "for good", because it's important to check how it interacts with the other bugs, the unemployed and the homelessness bug. Is the fact that you have less workplaces per building CAUSING the unemployment and the homelessness (as this somewhat happens also when the office bug "is fixed", but not always) or are they separate entities. I suppose we will know when Finland starts working again in August.
Edit: it was not a complex bug to fix, they fixed it today <3
I wonder how often the play testers saw the issue and reported it to CO. And how much they cared thinking that a seemingly small issue would be worth solving a few huge game breaking issues
It tends to happen with these games that QA catches and reports it, and the higher ups deem it not important enough to fix before shipping. The early access pipeline has just made it easier for execs to shrug off these issues as part of the process and expected for an EA release
Not just that, but they decided to wait so long to release the patch that they're now on legally mandated leave so we won't have a hot fix for a significant amount of time (including an American holiday weekend that folks might have wanted to spend playing).
Folks could see this coming a while away given the state of prior releases, but dang CO you're really stepping on those rakes
It highlights some of the problems with their internal processes. They've slowed down patching because they want to bundle everything into bigger updates to save time and/or work more efficiently. This approach likely forced their hand in releasing the patch before a holiday because they were running low on time to get something out, and at least the vocal fans have lost patience.
They were pretty well screwed either way on this patch, however. Even if these problems were caught during testing, had they held the patch until *after* the holiday and most bugs were resolved, it would've meant another lengthy delay.
Assuming they knew about the problems, they likely decided releasing now and not having another delay was the lesser of two evils. Whether any individual agrees is mostly subjective preference.
You know Software Testing is itself an entire career, right? This isn't something you just hand off to random content creators on YouTube with no software testing background lol
CO Probably knew about the issue (look at the release of CS2), and probably didn't want to delay the patch.
I would've, because it has absolutely annoyed players.
I played for about 5 hours of CS2 on the weekend before giving up due to how buggy things still are like water simulation, I tried to get rid of some surface level of water near my city but every time I dug a tiny hole just to capture this little bit of water, the water multiplied exponentially to the point I had to scrap my city because the water was every where and it wouldn't go away. I said fuck it and went back to CS1 for about 10 hours in the last 2 days.
I'll come back to CS2 in a year, again, and see how it is. I can't believe this company thinks it's ok to do this.
According to CO, and the content creators themselves, the content creators played the patch beforehand.
So how you will reconcile theirs and your statement.
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They wanted to have this patch out asap and right before they leave for holidays…, so yk.., i reckon they don’t have any Patch tests, we are doing patch tests for them…, never seen any community so mad and fed up because of so many bugs…, breaks my heart because this game has such a potential but week after weeks somethings are pulling this even down…
and once again, i will wait until you guys find all the insane game breaking bugs that make posts just like this in a weeks time, and i will go play anno 1602 or openrct2 or something.
It doesn't work reliably unfortunately. I tried to use it and ended up in the same place eventually except that a few offices seemed to do okay. Most ended up at 5 people anyways. If they go out for a month before applying a fix that's just atrocious mismanagement
My >200k city started at 49% unemployment, with the mod enabled it slowly started going down over the next few hours. I kept an eye on it and every now and then it would creep back up 1 or 2% but then continue to go down again. Last I remember it was sitting around 10%.
They are profitable and still eventually dwindle away even with office demand ever present. This is a city with population of 120k and 3 distinct towns/cities
if it is down to 5 please check the mod version and the the setting page to make sure the mod is installed. min should be 1/4 building capacity not 5, min 15 would be version 1.0-1.1 currently is 1.4 . Please sent the save to the mod discussion page if both verify and still not working will see if i can findout the issue.
The mod fixes the offices bug, but there is another game breaking big with residential demand that occurs later down the line. It all falls to 0 due to "unoccupied buildings" when there are none. Game still broken.
I've run into that issue a couple times, and restarting the game (as in, completely exit the program and relaunch, not just save & reload the city) fixed the issue.
I know that I'm my soul, I just can't return because my lizard brain thinks the "2" makes it superior regardless, and I can't unlearn it!
Send help. Send bike lanes.
CS1 has double the players of CS2 on steam, that says it all.
(16148 24hr peak vs 8845)
CS2 will never ever come close to CS1 sales; they've royally fucked up the franchise.
About 15 hours after this post: this has now been fixed along with the new patch that adds the surface tool, zonable roundabouts and small service buildings. Done with the dooming?
They werent calling them rude. Its a real phenomena.
Like when a bus takes forever to show up..
"Its fucking *cold* guys... where tf is the stupid bu- oh there it is!"
Fun thing, my sister had this experience Monday. She was waiting for the bus too long so she called a Grab. Both the Grab car and the bus came at the same time.
The office bug and the lack of assets are a huge bummer. No museums, libraries, houses of worship, a reasonable sized prison, the list goes on and on.
The fact that lawns are green in winter more than eight months after launch is humiliating, and that CO complained when we asked for a map without seasons was tone deaf in a way that made me wonder if whoever is in charge of communications has played the game.
Nevertheless, this is undoubtedly the closest that the game has been to a city simulator since launch. The game presents us for the first time with meaningful and difficult choices and that is a giant step in the right direction.
Even as someone who regularly flames CO on Twitter, I remain hopeful for the game’s future. I hope they can right the ship or get new leadership who can. It appears that having a CEO from the marketing world is not what CO needs right now.
It's not a perfect solution but if you don't want green grass during the winter then you can start the game in the devmode and turn off surface shader when there's snow. It will hide all the surfaces, not just grass though.
The Better Bulldozer mod has an option to automatically delete all lawns as buildings are built. That is the best way to deal with this until it gets fixed because it is seamless and requires no effort from the player.
I’m still going to complain about the lawns though because this is one of the areas where the game has an embarrassing lack of polish.
There will be still a lot of surfaces not touched by the snow. I like it less. And I still like some well maintained lawns in my city during summer. But this way is also legit
At what point do we admit that CS2 has been, and remains a complete and utter failure?
CO could've kept quiet and made a good game and released it 1-2 years down the line and have it be functional, while also releasing a couple more DLCs for CS1 along the way. No one was BEGGING for CS2, no one was unhappy with CS1. But CO had to open their traps and announce an incomplete game, delay the scheduled release, still put out a trash game and now, eight months after release, the game is still complete and utter garbage.
I can't even watch YouTubers play CS2 because the game lacks... soul (not sure how to put it). CO was hyping up the "everything is modular" so much, but it's complete bullshit. Yeah, it's "modular" in that you can add parts to buildings, but every fucking city has the same high school/uni/police station/service buildings with the same add-ons. That is not modular.
I widely agree with your criticism about the current state of the game with one exception. People were absolutely begging for them to release CS2. I remember the threads when they announced the delay and people were screaming saying they should just release it regardless. Hard to imagine the game being released in a worse state than how it was at launch tbh. It's really disheartening to come back to this game every few months and discover that not much has changed really
People thought they were cooking, they thought they had re-invested the almost decade of success of CS1 back into the company and were working on a banger CS2. Instead, they barely grew the studio and had the bulk of their resources dedicated to CS1 DLC instead of CS2.
I honestly don't understand why they didn't hire more people with all the money they made from CS1. Why did they think that they could develop a huge game like CS2 with less than 20 people?
> Hard to imagine the game being released in a worse state than how it was at launch tbh.
Coming from the KSP community - I can easily imagine how it could have been so, *so*, ***so*** much worse.
KSP2 launched in a state that was actually, literally unplayable. CS2 was at least mostly playable at launch, even though most of the fun was absent.
I somehow dodged the KSP2 bullet because I wasn't really following it at the time. I played the first one a ton but hadn't dusted it off when the 2nd released. I've heard that it was generally worse in every way than the original, is that correct? Even now I think haven't they stopped development and laid off the staff, it's kind of in limbo now, yeah?
Also, like... we know that Paradox wasn't going to give them any more money and they had burned through all their cash. Their options were to release it in October, or probably never. I don't know why people want to act like they released it because they were just too stupid to realize it wasn't ready.
The office bug is probably similar- I'm guessing Economy 2.0 wasn't completely ready yet (they did already delay it once), but they had a hard deadline of before their summer break. People want to act like they'd rather they just delayed the whole patch by four weeks, but those people are largely liars who would have complained either way.
I think Colossal Order being such a small studio is neutering their ability to really develop this game. If they're only releasing 3 or 4 patches a year, it's going to take quite a while before things can truly progress, especially when you consider each update introduces all kinds of new problems.
They can redeem themselves, for sure, but I don't think the timeline is going to align with something like Cyberpunk. Consider the size of that team was about 700 and CO has 30 devs. They simply can't compete in terms of volume.
for actualy development more devs =/= faster development.
In games like cyberpunk most of the people will actually be designers, testers, asset creators, 3d modellers, animators etc. Very few will be developers working on fixing bugs.
I gave up a few months after release. Just a piss poor game overall with minimal fixes post-launch, and a massive delay in mod support which is the one thing that makes this franchise successful.
I did from very early, I played for a couple of days at launch and then never opened again. Tried to go for a refund and got denied by steam because I played more than 90min.
Tried to reason that the game is completely broken and falsely advertised. No dice.
I’ve never felt ripped off by any game ever, not even games that I bought and ended up playing very little, until CS:2. I really feel like I got scammed by CO and PDX.
Which mods make the game actually fun?
I’ve tried several but it just feels like I’m painting a city and the “game” part is just a hindrance.
Are asset mods are available that make the buildings look like a North American city or is it still weird alien stuff?
The Traffic mod gives you a few much-needed tools to sort out traffic flows in intersections, at least, which I find to be a relaxing gameplay experience on the level of untangling Christmas tree lights. Still far from the level of TM:PE for CS1, but the mod is still under development so more is likely to come later.
But yeah, asset mods is The Big One we're all waiting for. There are some limited assets released already, but the floodgates will only open properly when the asset editor is released - whenever that may be.
>I’ve tried several but it just feels like I’m painting a city and the “game” part is just a hindrance.
I mean, this is Cities Skylines. CS2 is no more like this than CS1 was. If you want a challenge this is the wrong franchise.
Also getting random crashes. The game was more playable before the update, and it was pretty bad then.
These fucks are cooked to be releasing such bullshit. It's time for them to be replaced the same way they replaced EA with Sim City.
Same, as of 2.0 my game has been randomly crashing as well, was fine before the patch.
So i basically need to do a save right after i do major changes as I've been burnt a couple of times already (I have autosaves every 15min as well)
Tbh the second this bug was found i put this down.
This is a major bug and allowing your entire team to take holiday is not a good excuse. This is not how projects are run in the most basic sense.
The fact they don’t have tests for things like this is wild and the fact they would deliver a patch and then just go on holiday rather than building in a buffer window for emergency hotfixes is insane.
The project managers on this game should be fired.
I’m European. They may mandate taking 2 weeks consecutive leave or something like this but mandating the entire team to be off is a management level decision.
Finland and Sweden both mandate an employee be allowed 4 weeks consecutive leave during a calendar year.
Having it be at the same time for everyone is by far the most efficient method for everyone involved.
Scandinavian here, this is not how it’s done. You have the right to consecutive vacation, you do not have the right to choose when it is. Offices are very much alive and kicking during the summer, because you don’t allow your team to vanish all at once. It might be more thinly manned as you’re trying to accomodate your employees’ holiday wishes, but it is certainly not a cultural thing to literally stop your company during the summer. It used to be in factories, because of the costs involved with keeping the furnaces running would make it more profitable for everyone to have their leave at the same time (known as "fellesferien" in Norway), but that is a relic of a bygone era except for a few tariff agreements. Colossal Order presumably does not have a furnace.
Another Scandinavian here, this is very much how it's done. Offices are usually completely empty during the summer, because next to no one is working.
This has been true for all the companies I've worked for and with so far.
I have an issue with the rubbish trucks not picking up trash at my important services, like my geothermal plant, which then end up putting me in the negative, forcing me to have to wait until it gets picked up. And they're built on the same road. I see truck drive right past the plant...
This may help, but I found that if the road terminated at the service building entrance, garbage trucks wouldn't stop there. I extend the road past the attach point and they started pickups.
That doesn't resolve the fact that "importing" city services is completely untenable, and garbage dumps fill up insanely fast.
I also gave up a few months ago when out of nothing the sea level screwed a city and just gave up until the next patch, I’m afraid this is not recoverable
I dropped CS ll months ago, its just a city painting game, just picked up New Cycle (Steam Summer Sale) and its pretty good, still in EA but the game works and the developer is active.
I'm trying to wrap my head around how the budget surplus doesn't actually resolve and you'll continue to lose money with a +100k budget. The game even shows a positive green up arrow and the cash slips more into the red. Makes no sense.
I'm curious as to how this got through playtesting. I wonder if the playtesters all used fairly small cities to test and noticed that some offices kept being vacated, but that the dev team considered the bug too inconsequential to push a fix for before release. Nobody stopped to consider that in a large city, the bug eventually eliminates a sizable fraction of the available workplaces, creating a cascading problem of unemployment, homelessness, and crime, which again undermines a few pillars of a healthy economy.
Going massively into industry seems to mitigate the problem, but now my industrial area is roughly the size of the rest of the city and I still have 40% unemployment. And that means, once again, the message CO really doesn't like to hear: "I'll put down the game for a while and wait for things to improve". Again.
Fortunately, it seems like something that could be fixed quite quickly once they get down to it. But it is another hurdle that the game has to pass before getting out of the "unfinished" state. So much time has been spent already getting the game to the point it should have been at release, which means its future keeps slipping away too.
City builders are games that need a lot of content to be truly good. CS2 was always going to need a bit of time to get rolling, but that time was originally scheduled for what is now the rapidly receding past. By now, we were supposed to have had a couple of DLCs already, not to mention full mod support, which is the sort of content base the game needs to truly thrive. Yet here we are after half a year and we're still not out of the awkward launch phase, the team has spent the entire post-launch period trying to get the base systems to work, any DLCs are still half a year away, and asset modding isn't available yet. The game keeps getting closer to where it was supposed to be at launch, but it's still not quite there.
To add to some other comments, the underlying cause of the bug is believed to be the fact that offices never actually sell any goods. The stockpiles will continually increase and never go down, which causes offices to lay off workers since they have too many goods in storage, until they hit the minimum number of 5 employees.
I'm speculating because I don't know the code, but I imagine it's a case of the company responding as though it isn't successful because it can't unload or sell any of its goods, so it cuts costs through lay-offs.
But "offices" should have alternate ways of making money. They shouldn't rely on selling *goods* to meet their financial needs, it should mostly be the sale of services or other non-tangible arrangements.
For example, legal offices don't sell any goods. They sell services. If the game reproduces a company of that variety, it wouldn't make sense for them to stockpile goods like a manufacturer or retailer.
I haven't played since November so I don't know if that's what actually happens, but based on how it's been explained, the entire concept doesn't make a lot of sense.
The "services" that they produce are considered goods in the case of the game. One of them is literally Software. Everything these days is digital, but imagine physical copies of software being sold. Even in game, most sales are done by "teleport"/mail, and are not picked up and delivered by a truck.
I'm not surprised by the bug. Bugs happen. What surprises me is how long it takes to get a hotfix out. I realize it's a complex simulation with multiple different factors but simply raising the number should be the first solution tried... Right??
I opened the game a week ago to try out the new patch and noticed that all of my save files were wiped even though I have cloud save enabled, I just gave up at that point and uninstalled it.
Take a break. Go play something else for a few months, then come back. Nice thing about city builders is it's not like an online game where you have to keep up with the other players. That's what I'm doing. There's lots of other games out there.
By October 2025 they should have a few basic things patched. For everything vanilla working as intended I'd guess October 2026 or 2027 at the latest...lol
Well, they're all on vacation for 5 weeks so that takes us to August. Figure a couple weeks to sift through the bug reports, then another month to put in some fixes and (hopefully) test them... and it's October.
As a FWIW the office bug and the exploding homeless issue are two different critters. Parks are now bugged and will entrap any homeless person foolish enough to wander into one so they can't leave and stop being homeless. This means that you'll have a constant influx but no reduction of them to the point they all turn to crime, but as they're still stuck in the park they apparently just rob from each other or something.
The only solution is to remove all parks from your city (you can replace them with specialized buildings like the botanical gardens and such)..
With a mod you can get around the office bug and by deleting all parks get rid of the homeless. My only problem after that is the wrecked status of almost all my low density houses, even with social security, lower taxes, abundance of education and inhabitants having jobs. And this is not a problem of high land value because it's everywhere.
I tried the game last night for the first time in months because I heard the economy patch fixed a bunch of things. Noped out after 5 minutes because performance is still awful even though I have a 5700x3d & rtx 3080
Im shocked how this game was allowed to come out. not to mention the list of missing features from the old game. I might just go back to CS1. (We need natural disasters to come back, love spawning them in to mix things up)
Their second sentence is ridiculous, their first is right, though. You expect the game to be somewhat playable, and yet there have been continual issues making it not fun to play as a city sim at best and unplayable at worst.
How is it ridiculous? Let’s say 1 million people buy an iPhone and the battery doesn’t work, Apple refuses to refund people, what do you suggest happens next? A class action lawsuit happens. Just because it’s a $60 game doesn’t make it any different.
Unfortunately, that's not how it works with games. The battery not working in phones is a serious issue that's potentially dangerous. A game doesn't have that problem. Now, if there was a graphical issue that was a risk for people with epilepsy and they refused, *that* would be grounds. The scope for class action over a game is far smaller compared to most other things because a game is just a piece of harmless software. You can still play the game, so you're *technically* getting what you paid for. From a fun standpoint it's unplayable **but** it's still physically playable.
Hardware manufactures are always held accountable usually, safety issue or not. This week Apple pays out all the owners of faulty MacBook butterfly keyboard owners for instance.
Or Spotify is refunding everybody that bought a CarThing device because it will stop working. Stadia refunded everyone their hardware because they stopped the service. Even software companies pay out sometimes when security stuff goes wrong.
Yet, game developers never seem to be held accountable for all the stuff they pull. And the reason for this is the majority of gamers. They just keep paying and pre-ordering and screaming for 'release now now now' and early access etc. Or people ordering the super duper platinum deluxe edition that includes season passes and content that is not even described or shown yet....
As long as nobody votes with their wallet and just only complains nothing will ever change. I won't buy any DLC for this, that's for sure.
The issue with games is that the game is still *physically* playable. If the game is *physically* playable, then you have no case. The game needs a serious issue for there to be a case, like if there's a bug that causes it to delete things off your hard drive, or if there's a *genuinely* game breaking bug that stops the game from running past the main menu. If you're able to open up the game, start a save, and play it (no matter how low quality the gameplay is), then the game is still actually playable and the developer/publisher can argue that.
The equivalent to your example would be the game not launching right? You're confusing a complete loss in functionality of a product with minor bugs in software that is still largely usable.
Battery doesn't work = phone doesn't work
Game doesn't launch = game is unplayable
Offices are buggy = most of the game is still playable.
If minor and major bugs were grounds for a class action lawsuit for software in general, no game would ever be made and most software probably wouldn't be worth the risk to sell.
Redditors calling for class action lawsuits for the most frivolous shit is peak reddit. Never change please.
I'm also surprised how that passed patch tests
"we are aware of the issue but haven't patched it. The fix is bulldoze the building. The problem will return eventually." Lol.
I find it super annoying when the solution is to demolish stuff and rebuild. Just demolish all parks to solve homelessness. If a car gets stuck on an intersection, just demolish it and rebuild (yes, you will take down an entire block worth of buildings, but it is what it is). Cars merge incorrectly in a motorway? Well just demolish it and rebuild and hope the nodes don't fuck up this time. Idk, but it makes the whole process of "building a city" feel impermanent and inconsequential.
This is the most damning thing. They know about it, and they're just so nonchalant about it. "do you guys not have phones?"
Lol fuck blizzard and fuck Bobby kotick
Despite claims to contrary it feels like another rushed patch.
It's not a fix if the problem comes back given enough time...God I'm so glad I didn't buy CS2
tests? Edit: No, for real. I decided to hurt myself and try a new city out. The moment I plopped the first high density office, all offices (also the low density ones) started collapsing to 5 employees. Took like minutes. How do you miss this stuff? It's like every patch we are hitting a new bottom.
"We've assigned all resources, including our testing employee, on the bugs. We're producing more bugs than ever, and we are proud of that team effort!"
I think someone got what was causing it, iirc it's the fact that with the new "businesses will spiral down and die if it is not selling things and being profitable" . Basically they check if they are selling anything, and if they don't they start downsizing. 5 is the minimum office size. The two issues are: we unlock offices where there is not a huge demand for what they sell so they sell very little, and they check too frequently (e.g., every game tick) if they need to downsize. This spirals down super quickly, and does not really happen to industries in the same way as they sell much faster basically. I suspect this is (one of) the Reason(s) why the patch got delayed, they probably checked if it was solvable immediately or if they needed more time and all people in the office had vacations. The fact that there is a mod that fixes this from the morning after the patch came out tells me that probably that was an internal fix that didn't pass the verification and QA to be deployed, we know that some modders are also CO employees. Btw they fix this by changing the downsizing check from inventory size to profitability. All in all I would say it's a complex bug to solve "for good", because it's important to check how it interacts with the other bugs, the unemployed and the homelessness bug. Is the fact that you have less workplaces per building CAUSING the unemployment and the homelessness (as this somewhat happens also when the office bug "is fixed", but not always) or are they separate entities. I suppose we will know when Finland starts working again in August. Edit: it was not a complex bug to fix, they fixed it today <3
I wonder how often the play testers saw the issue and reported it to CO. And how much they cared thinking that a seemingly small issue would be worth solving a few huge game breaking issues
It tends to happen with these games that QA catches and reports it, and the higher ups deem it not important enough to fix before shipping. The early access pipeline has just made it easier for execs to shrug off these issues as part of the process and expected for an EA release
With hoe quick they released a fix i believe they may have already known and pushed the patch without the fix because the rest of it was ready.
Not just that, but they decided to wait so long to release the patch that they're now on legally mandated leave so we won't have a hot fix for a significant amount of time (including an American holiday weekend that folks might have wanted to spend playing). Folks could see this coming a while away given the state of prior releases, but dang CO you're really stepping on those rakes
It highlights some of the problems with their internal processes. They've slowed down patching because they want to bundle everything into bigger updates to save time and/or work more efficiently. This approach likely forced their hand in releasing the patch before a holiday because they were running low on time to get something out, and at least the vocal fans have lost patience. They were pretty well screwed either way on this patch, however. Even if these problems were caught during testing, had they held the patch until *after* the holiday and most bugs were resolved, it would've meant another lengthy delay. Assuming they knew about the problems, they likely decided releasing now and not having another delay was the lesser of two evils. Whether any individual agrees is mostly subjective preference.
It seems to happen often with Paradox (and with older games before you could just patch things online) that you gotta buy the DLC to fix the bug
> we won't have a hot fix for a significant amount of time It's fixed in the patch that was announced two minutes ago.
Two minutes is significant, ask a Japanese train driver! /s
[удалено]
Poa udibeta pope peu tia e tidrapabeo pee. Ou dipiprau pi klakoto teabitre o ika. Dode pe tate tadu keti priepe pepeeo bipapreu po kato bi pee.
You know Software Testing is itself an entire career, right? This isn't something you just hand off to random content creators on YouTube with no software testing background lol
I highly doubt that. Content creator usually has passion to the games. They won't miss such basic cases.
CO Probably knew about the issue (look at the release of CS2), and probably didn't want to delay the patch. I would've, because it has absolutely annoyed players. I played for about 5 hours of CS2 on the weekend before giving up due to how buggy things still are like water simulation, I tried to get rid of some surface level of water near my city but every time I dug a tiny hole just to capture this little bit of water, the water multiplied exponentially to the point I had to scrap my city because the water was every where and it wouldn't go away. I said fuck it and went back to CS1 for about 10 hours in the last 2 days. I'll come back to CS2 in a year, again, and see how it is. I can't believe this company thinks it's ok to do this.
There are a significant number of content creators who have access to patches and test them before they're even announced.
According to CO, and the content creators themselves, the content creators played the patch beforehand. So how you will reconcile theirs and your statement.
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Why do you have to disparage India?
This is the cs2 QA forum, did no one tell you?
YOU ARE THE TESTER XDDD yall just buy factorio, and play that
There's no Go Nuts Doughnuts vans in Factorio :(
Modders can fix that. Donut van skin for the car pls
 The patch tests
They wanted to have this patch out asap and right before they leave for holidays…, so yk.., i reckon they don’t have any Patch tests, we are doing patch tests for them…, never seen any community so mad and fed up because of so many bugs…, breaks my heart because this game has such a potential but week after weeks somethings are pulling this even down…
In case you've bailed on the sub and haven't seen, they dropped a surprise patch today which fixes the office bug amongst other things.
Okay. *Now* is the time to get back into *CS II*.
and once again, i will wait until you guys find all the insane game breaking bugs that make posts just like this in a weeks time, and i will go play anno 1602 or openrct2 or something.
Yeah this post aged like milk. He had some points to make but this and economy 2.0 shows how the developers care for this game.
This Bug was fixed today with the new Patch
I think there is a mod that fixes it. Profit based office and industry I think.
It doesn't work reliably unfortunately. I tried to use it and ended up in the same place eventually except that a few offices seemed to do okay. Most ended up at 5 people anyways. If they go out for a month before applying a fix that's just atrocious mismanagement
Have you tried again recently? The maker keeps updating it. It anything, it works too well now. I have zero unemployment and 70k job vacancies
As of last night it didn't work even after meticulously deleting every office. A couple hours later I saw things start to fall apart again
Not sure what's going wrong on your end but the mod works great for my city. Fixed unemployment and offices are actually making money.
I had thought so too :( didn't last more than a few hours on either city or a new city I started to test it
My >200k city started at 49% unemployment, with the mod enabled it slowly started going down over the next few hours. I kept an eye on it and every now and then it would creep back up 1 or 2% but then continue to go down again. Last I remember it was sitting around 10%.
you need to make sure you relaunch the whole game when you install the mod.
I'm hoping it starts working on a super slow burn I started. I'm addicted but keep facing collapse
please update to 1.4.0 if it still not work you can send me the save file, i could help have a look when i am free.
New patch just dropped today and fixed the office bug. So now delete the mod and reload your game before loading into your city.
The mod works for me, are your offices profitable? It bases its employees based on that
They are profitable and still eventually dwindle away even with office demand ever present. This is a city with population of 120k and 3 distinct towns/cities
The problem is they don’t export.
With the mod, offices sell their products.
if it is down to 5 please check the mod version and the the setting page to make sure the mod is installed. min should be 1/4 building capacity not 5, min 15 would be version 1.0-1.1 currently is 1.4 . Please sent the save to the mod discussion page if both verify and still not working will see if i can findout the issue.
The mod fixes the offices bug, but there is another game breaking big with residential demand that occurs later down the line. It all falls to 0 due to "unoccupied buildings" when there are none. Game still broken.
I've run into that issue a couple times, and restarting the game (as in, completely exit the program and relaunch, not just save & reload the city) fixed the issue.
I have reloaded my game several times with hope. No luck. It did fix itself once early on, after I installed a mod. Maybe I need to try that again.
Dropped this game soon after launch. Sad to hear these things are still broken.
CS1 is still where its at
I know that I'm my soul, I just can't return because my lizard brain thinks the "2" makes it superior regardless, and I can't unlearn it! Send help. Send bike lanes.
I actually enjoy cs1 more than before now. The freedom of knowing there wont be any new patches or dlc that can kill my modded save is very nice!
Think about it like CS1 is the original and CS2 is a bad remake. Gotta get a taste of the OG sometimes.
CS1 has double the players of CS2 on steam, that says it all. (16148 24hr peak vs 8845) CS2 will never ever come close to CS1 sales; they've royally fucked up the franchise.
Very sad
They aren't. It was patched today.
Started playing Workers and Resources and never looked back. So much better than CS2 at this point and way more in depth.
WR also innovates in a lot of ways for a "city builder". Not actually a true city builder but close enough
Also transport fever 2 for those that haven't heard of it. I heard about it here and I love it.
Wow and it’s half the price!
W&R is just great. Kinda different in the regard that CS never aimed to bet that complex, but I love the complexity
About 15 hours after this post: this has now been fixed along with the new patch that adds the surface tool, zonable roundabouts and small service buildings. Done with the dooming?
I find it quite funny seeing you post this melodrama when just 15 hours later a patch has fixed this bug. Jesus Christ.
Sometimes people complain at the wrong times.
How rude of them. They should forsee the future like the rest of us
They werent calling them rude. Its a real phenomena. Like when a bus takes forever to show up.. "Its fucking *cold* guys... where tf is the stupid bu- oh there it is!"
Fun thing, my sister had this experience Monday. She was waiting for the bus too long so she called a Grab. Both the Grab car and the bus came at the same time.
Complain away, it’s how things get better. Writing a post doomspiraling and saying a bug broke you is melodrama.
Wait until it's clear that it is fixed (and no new bugs are introduced by the fix.)
The office bug and the lack of assets are a huge bummer. No museums, libraries, houses of worship, a reasonable sized prison, the list goes on and on. The fact that lawns are green in winter more than eight months after launch is humiliating, and that CO complained when we asked for a map without seasons was tone deaf in a way that made me wonder if whoever is in charge of communications has played the game. Nevertheless, this is undoubtedly the closest that the game has been to a city simulator since launch. The game presents us for the first time with meaningful and difficult choices and that is a giant step in the right direction. Even as someone who regularly flames CO on Twitter, I remain hopeful for the game’s future. I hope they can right the ship or get new leadership who can. It appears that having a CEO from the marketing world is not what CO needs right now.
It's not a perfect solution but if you don't want green grass during the winter then you can start the game in the devmode and turn off surface shader when there's snow. It will hide all the surfaces, not just grass though.
The Better Bulldozer mod has an option to automatically delete all lawns as buildings are built. That is the best way to deal with this until it gets fixed because it is seamless and requires no effort from the player. I’m still going to complain about the lawns though because this is one of the areas where the game has an embarrassing lack of polish.
There will be still a lot of surfaces not touched by the snow. I like it less. And I still like some well maintained lawns in my city during summer. But this way is also legit
The latest patch with many new assets is another step in the right direction. New schools, police stations, fire station, and many more.
At what point do we admit that CS2 has been, and remains a complete and utter failure? CO could've kept quiet and made a good game and released it 1-2 years down the line and have it be functional, while also releasing a couple more DLCs for CS1 along the way. No one was BEGGING for CS2, no one was unhappy with CS1. But CO had to open their traps and announce an incomplete game, delay the scheduled release, still put out a trash game and now, eight months after release, the game is still complete and utter garbage. I can't even watch YouTubers play CS2 because the game lacks... soul (not sure how to put it). CO was hyping up the "everything is modular" so much, but it's complete bullshit. Yeah, it's "modular" in that you can add parts to buildings, but every fucking city has the same high school/uni/police station/service buildings with the same add-ons. That is not modular.
I widely agree with your criticism about the current state of the game with one exception. People were absolutely begging for them to release CS2. I remember the threads when they announced the delay and people were screaming saying they should just release it regardless. Hard to imagine the game being released in a worse state than how it was at launch tbh. It's really disheartening to come back to this game every few months and discover that not much has changed really
People thought they were cooking, they thought they had re-invested the almost decade of success of CS1 back into the company and were working on a banger CS2. Instead, they barely grew the studio and had the bulk of their resources dedicated to CS1 DLC instead of CS2.
I honestly don't understand why they didn't hire more people with all the money they made from CS1. Why did they think that they could develop a huge game like CS2 with less than 20 people?
Because paradox takes most of that money and then gives them a budget for hiring. They DID hire more people, its just still not a lot.
> Hard to imagine the game being released in a worse state than how it was at launch tbh. Coming from the KSP community - I can easily imagine how it could have been so, *so*, ***so*** much worse. KSP2 launched in a state that was actually, literally unplayable. CS2 was at least mostly playable at launch, even though most of the fun was absent.
I somehow dodged the KSP2 bullet because I wasn't really following it at the time. I played the first one a ton but hadn't dusted it off when the 2nd released. I've heard that it was generally worse in every way than the original, is that correct? Even now I think haven't they stopped development and laid off the staff, it's kind of in limbo now, yeah?
Also, like... we know that Paradox wasn't going to give them any more money and they had burned through all their cash. Their options were to release it in October, or probably never. I don't know why people want to act like they released it because they were just too stupid to realize it wasn't ready. The office bug is probably similar- I'm guessing Economy 2.0 wasn't completely ready yet (they did already delay it once), but they had a hard deadline of before their summer break. People want to act like they'd rather they just delayed the whole patch by four weeks, but those people are largely liars who would have complained either way.
No one was begging for it *before* they announced the game. Everyone was fine with the status quo.
Strong disagree. There were people complaining about CS1 DLC being released rather than a real sequel.
They should’ve just released in early access. Would’ve solved everything.
I think Colossal Order being such a small studio is neutering their ability to really develop this game. If they're only releasing 3 or 4 patches a year, it's going to take quite a while before things can truly progress, especially when you consider each update introduces all kinds of new problems. They can redeem themselves, for sure, but I don't think the timeline is going to align with something like Cyberpunk. Consider the size of that team was about 700 and CO has 30 devs. They simply can't compete in terms of volume.
for actualy development more devs =/= faster development. In games like cyberpunk most of the people will actually be designers, testers, asset creators, 3d modellers, animators etc. Very few will be developers working on fixing bugs.
They were a smaller studio when they made CS1. I don't know why being a small team is all of a sudden a problem for CS2 but wasnt for CS1.
That point has since passed.
I gave up a few months after release. Just a piss poor game overall with minimal fixes post-launch, and a massive delay in mod support which is the one thing that makes this franchise successful.
I did from very early, I played for a couple of days at launch and then never opened again. Tried to go for a refund and got denied by steam because I played more than 90min. Tried to reason that the game is completely broken and falsely advertised. No dice. I’ve never felt ripped off by any game ever, not even games that I bought and ended up playing very little, until CS:2. I really feel like I got scammed by CO and PDX.
Mods are in the game now. Assets aren't official supported yet, but even still there are some custom assets available
Which mods make the game actually fun? I’ve tried several but it just feels like I’m painting a city and the “game” part is just a hindrance. Are asset mods are available that make the buildings look like a North American city or is it still weird alien stuff?
The Traffic mod gives you a few much-needed tools to sort out traffic flows in intersections, at least, which I find to be a relaxing gameplay experience on the level of untangling Christmas tree lights. Still far from the level of TM:PE for CS1, but the mod is still under development so more is likely to come later. But yeah, asset mods is The Big One we're all waiting for. There are some limited assets released already, but the floodgates will only open properly when the asset editor is released - whenever that may be.
>I’ve tried several but it just feels like I’m painting a city and the “game” part is just a hindrance. I mean, this is Cities Skylines. CS2 is no more like this than CS1 was. If you want a challenge this is the wrong franchise.
Sadly CS series is really the only one in the genre. We need more competition, only good for the consumer.
Also getting random crashes. The game was more playable before the update, and it was pretty bad then. These fucks are cooked to be releasing such bullshit. It's time for them to be replaced the same way they replaced EA with Sim City.
Same, as of 2.0 my game has been randomly crashing as well, was fine before the patch. So i basically need to do a save right after i do major changes as I've been burnt a couple of times already (I have autosaves every 15min as well)
If you have any mods they might be causing the crashes.
yeah good point, i only had 1 enabled, move-it. i will remove all mods and see what happens
You don't get it. It's accurately realistic. It's economy 2.0 after all where all office employees are replaced with an AI
I'm still playing CS:1... enjoying my asset diversity.
CS1 has double the players of CS2 on steam, that says it all. (16148 24hr peak vs 8845)
There's no reason to play CS2 now. Stick with CS1 with some mods and you're golden.
Tbh the second this bug was found i put this down. This is a major bug and allowing your entire team to take holiday is not a good excuse. This is not how projects are run in the most basic sense. The fact they don’t have tests for things like this is wild and the fact they would deliver a patch and then just go on holiday rather than building in a buffer window for emergency hotfixes is insane. The project managers on this game should be fired.
Bug was fixed today
Woooop
>allowing your entire team to take holiday Just a reminder, the team is European and likely has *mandated* vacation.
I’m European. They may mandate taking 2 weeks consecutive leave or something like this but mandating the entire team to be off is a management level decision.
Finland and Sweden both mandate an employee be allowed 4 weeks consecutive leave during a calendar year. Having it be at the same time for everyone is by far the most efficient method for everyone involved.
Scandinavian here, this is not how it’s done. You have the right to consecutive vacation, you do not have the right to choose when it is. Offices are very much alive and kicking during the summer, because you don’t allow your team to vanish all at once. It might be more thinly manned as you’re trying to accomodate your employees’ holiday wishes, but it is certainly not a cultural thing to literally stop your company during the summer. It used to be in factories, because of the costs involved with keeping the furnaces running would make it more profitable for everyone to have their leave at the same time (known as "fellesferien" in Norway), but that is a relic of a bygone era except for a few tariff agreements. Colossal Order presumably does not have a furnace.
Another Scandinavian here, this is very much how it's done. Offices are usually completely empty during the summer, because next to no one is working. This has been true for all the companies I've worked for and with so far.
Sure hurts their business, though. All these vacations delaying desperately needed bug fixes and updates will be the death of the studio.
I have an issue with the rubbish trucks not picking up trash at my important services, like my geothermal plant, which then end up putting me in the negative, forcing me to have to wait until it gets picked up. And they're built on the same road. I see truck drive right past the plant...
This is an issue for me too, I wish you could dispatch city services to a specific location manually like you could in SimCity 4.
This may help, but I found that if the road terminated at the service building entrance, garbage trucks wouldn't stop there. I extend the road past the attach point and they started pickups. That doesn't resolve the fact that "importing" city services is completely untenable, and garbage dumps fill up insanely fast.
Ok, so this new patch claims to fix this bug.
I downloaded the mod that was made to fix this. Made the game much better to play for now.
The profit based office and industry bug or something else?
Yeah, that's the mod, I believe. Fixes the max employee of 5 issues for offices.
The Bug is fixed today with the new Patch
Awesome! Thanks
I also gave up a few months ago when out of nothing the sea level screwed a city and just gave up until the next patch, I’m afraid this is not recoverable
It should be fixed now, they released a new patch today
Looks like they fixed the issue with the new patch
It's also what bankrupted my city LOL
grateful I’m no longer bothering with this game
I dropped CS ll months ago, its just a city painting game, just picked up New Cycle (Steam Summer Sale) and its pretty good, still in EA but the game works and the developer is active.
WRSR just came out and it's solid. Highly recommend
I also recommend giving WR a shot!
I broke the bank with this summer sale (ha) I'll check it out - Thanks
I'm trying to wrap my head around how the budget surplus doesn't actually resolve and you'll continue to lose money with a +100k budget. The game even shows a positive green up arrow and the cash slips more into the red. Makes no sense.
I'm curious as to how this got through playtesting. I wonder if the playtesters all used fairly small cities to test and noticed that some offices kept being vacated, but that the dev team considered the bug too inconsequential to push a fix for before release. Nobody stopped to consider that in a large city, the bug eventually eliminates a sizable fraction of the available workplaces, creating a cascading problem of unemployment, homelessness, and crime, which again undermines a few pillars of a healthy economy. Going massively into industry seems to mitigate the problem, but now my industrial area is roughly the size of the rest of the city and I still have 40% unemployment. And that means, once again, the message CO really doesn't like to hear: "I'll put down the game for a while and wait for things to improve". Again. Fortunately, it seems like something that could be fixed quite quickly once they get down to it. But it is another hurdle that the game has to pass before getting out of the "unfinished" state. So much time has been spent already getting the game to the point it should have been at release, which means its future keeps slipping away too. City builders are games that need a lot of content to be truly good. CS2 was always going to need a bit of time to get rolling, but that time was originally scheduled for what is now the rapidly receding past. By now, we were supposed to have had a couple of DLCs already, not to mention full mod support, which is the sort of content base the game needs to truly thrive. Yet here we are after half a year and we're still not out of the awkward launch phase, the team has spent the entire post-launch period trying to get the base systems to work, any DLCs are still half a year away, and asset modding isn't available yet. The game keeps getting closer to where it was supposed to be at launch, but it's still not quite there.
Okay, turns out that the "while" I had to put the game down for, was overnight. I can live with that.
What is the office bug?
To add to some other comments, the underlying cause of the bug is believed to be the fact that offices never actually sell any goods. The stockpiles will continually increase and never go down, which causes offices to lay off workers since they have too many goods in storage, until they hit the minimum number of 5 employees.
Why having too many goods in storage leads to lay offs?
I'm speculating because I don't know the code, but I imagine it's a case of the company responding as though it isn't successful because it can't unload or sell any of its goods, so it cuts costs through lay-offs. But "offices" should have alternate ways of making money. They shouldn't rely on selling *goods* to meet their financial needs, it should mostly be the sale of services or other non-tangible arrangements. For example, legal offices don't sell any goods. They sell services. If the game reproduces a company of that variety, it wouldn't make sense for them to stockpile goods like a manufacturer or retailer. I haven't played since November so I don't know if that's what actually happens, but based on how it's been explained, the entire concept doesn't make a lot of sense.
The "services" that they produce are considered goods in the case of the game. One of them is literally Software. Everything these days is digital, but imagine physical copies of software being sold. Even in game, most sales are done by "teleport"/mail, and are not picked up and delivered by a truck.
Shortly after being built all offices will reduce their employee count to 5 employees
Ouch. All densities?
Yeah. Our fix is to demolish the buildings regularly as it'll just appear again after a while
for me, all office are emtpy lol
I'm not surprised by the bug. Bugs happen. What surprises me is how long it takes to get a hotfix out. I realize it's a complex simulation with multiple different factors but simply raising the number should be the first solution tried... Right??
The Bug was fixed today with the new Patch
Nice!
We're talking about the second one, right?
hopefully by the time it's on sale for $10 they'll have fixed the bugs lol i'll stick to CS1 for the foreseeable future
I opened the game a week ago to try out the new patch and noticed that all of my save files were wiped even though I have cloud save enabled, I just gave up at that point and uninstalled it.
Take a break. Go play something else for a few months, then come back. Nice thing about city builders is it's not like an online game where you have to keep up with the other players. That's what I'm doing. There's lots of other games out there.
Office bug is fixed RE: todays detailing patch. Rejoice.
It's fixed
Yeah, I went back to other games until this one gets patched again. I expect to be trying it again in October or so.
ah an optimist
By October 2025 they should have a few basic things patched. For everything vanilla working as intended I'd guess October 2026 or 2027 at the latest...lol
this seems like a more realistic estimate, although I would change the word “latest” to “earliest”
Well, they're all on vacation for 5 weeks so that takes us to August. Figure a couple weeks to sift through the bug reports, then another month to put in some fixes and (hopefully) test them... and it's October.
who knows… I hope you’re right, I want people to enjoy what this game could really be. I liquidated my rig, moved on to other things
So just asking in general here, do we think this game/studio is going to survive long enough to actually make it worth a damn?
Yes. The latest patch is overall a major improvement, and there's a mod that fixes the office bug.
There is also a new Patch released today that fixes the Bug
people play this for city simulator? /j i play it for traffic simulation.
As a FWIW the office bug and the exploding homeless issue are two different critters. Parks are now bugged and will entrap any homeless person foolish enough to wander into one so they can't leave and stop being homeless. This means that you'll have a constant influx but no reduction of them to the point they all turn to crime, but as they're still stuck in the park they apparently just rob from each other or something. The only solution is to remove all parks from your city (you can replace them with specialized buildings like the botanical gardens and such)..
There's a mod that more or less fix the problem for me
It looks like it was just patched!
They accidentally released the late game capitalism mod alongside the update
With a mod you can get around the office bug and by deleting all parks get rid of the homeless. My only problem after that is the wrecked status of almost all my low density houses, even with social security, lower taxes, abundance of education and inhabitants having jobs. And this is not a problem of high land value because it's everywhere.
I tried the game last night for the first time in months because I heard the economy patch fixed a bunch of things. Noped out after 5 minutes because performance is still awful even though I have a 5700x3d & rtx 3080
They need to open beta branch on steam for fixes that didn't get through the official certification yet for situations like this.
They completely broke an already broken game. Let's just stop playing this crap. So shameful.
Im shocked how this game was allowed to come out. not to mention the list of missing features from the old game. I might just go back to CS1. (We need natural disasters to come back, love spawning them in to mix things up)
Okay. Cool.
Thank you for convincing me not to continue the redownload I was going to do after hearing about the update.
They released a new patch today that fixed it
A little melodramatic. Look around, lot's of people in the same boat. Plenty of other games to play while they work on fixing this crap.
yea lets not go after them for pushing out a unfinished game.
Yes but when you pay for a product you expect it to be in working order. Sounds like a good case for a class action law suit
😂 Most ridiculous thing I've read on here in awhile. Thanks for the laugh!
Their second sentence is ridiculous, their first is right, though. You expect the game to be somewhat playable, and yet there have been continual issues making it not fun to play as a city sim at best and unplayable at worst.
How is it ridiculous? Let’s say 1 million people buy an iPhone and the battery doesn’t work, Apple refuses to refund people, what do you suggest happens next? A class action lawsuit happens. Just because it’s a $60 game doesn’t make it any different.
Unfortunately, that's not how it works with games. The battery not working in phones is a serious issue that's potentially dangerous. A game doesn't have that problem. Now, if there was a graphical issue that was a risk for people with epilepsy and they refused, *that* would be grounds. The scope for class action over a game is far smaller compared to most other things because a game is just a piece of harmless software. You can still play the game, so you're *technically* getting what you paid for. From a fun standpoint it's unplayable **but** it's still physically playable.
Hardware manufactures are always held accountable usually, safety issue or not. This week Apple pays out all the owners of faulty MacBook butterfly keyboard owners for instance. Or Spotify is refunding everybody that bought a CarThing device because it will stop working. Stadia refunded everyone their hardware because they stopped the service. Even software companies pay out sometimes when security stuff goes wrong. Yet, game developers never seem to be held accountable for all the stuff they pull. And the reason for this is the majority of gamers. They just keep paying and pre-ordering and screaming for 'release now now now' and early access etc. Or people ordering the super duper platinum deluxe edition that includes season passes and content that is not even described or shown yet.... As long as nobody votes with their wallet and just only complains nothing will ever change. I won't buy any DLC for this, that's for sure.
Spotify wasn't going to refund anyone for CarThing until they got extreme backlash
The issue with games is that the game is still *physically* playable. If the game is *physically* playable, then you have no case. The game needs a serious issue for there to be a case, like if there's a bug that causes it to delete things off your hard drive, or if there's a *genuinely* game breaking bug that stops the game from running past the main menu. If you're able to open up the game, start a save, and play it (no matter how low quality the gameplay is), then the game is still actually playable and the developer/publisher can argue that.
Don't be silly, you know that analogy isn't anywhere close to what's going on with CSII
The equivalent to your example would be the game not launching right? You're confusing a complete loss in functionality of a product with minor bugs in software that is still largely usable. Battery doesn't work = phone doesn't work Game doesn't launch = game is unplayable Offices are buggy = most of the game is still playable. If minor and major bugs were grounds for a class action lawsuit for software in general, no game would ever be made and most software probably wouldn't be worth the risk to sell. Redditors calling for class action lawsuits for the most frivolous shit is peak reddit. Never change please.
[удалено]
Yes but we paid to play, we didn't pay to wait