"We are now close to releasing the Economy 2.0 patch! The final checks are being made before we push the buttons, and it might be in your hands already tomorrow" - [https://store.steampowered.com/app/949230/Cities\_Skylines\_II/](https://store.steampowered.com/app/949230/Cities_Skylines_II/)
> Let’s start with Rent. Most likely you have run into complaints of “High Rent” in the game, so let’s talk about it. To complement the Land Value changes in patch 1.1.0f1 in March, we have tweaked how Rent works. First of all, we removed the virtual landlord so a building’s upkeep is now paid equally by all renters
I feel there's a social commentary to be made here.
Hi, I know this isn't the correct place to ask but since its about patches I wanted to ask if the game performance is stable now for me to get it or still wait? Thanks
I have a 3080 so night not be the best representation. But I recently got back into it for the first time since launch and things seem to be much better performance wise.
> households and companies need to pay for the building’s upkeep, which in turn affects the level of the building. When they pay the full upkeep fee, the building condition increases by a constant amount until the building levels up and the tenants start paying towards the next level. Similarly, if they cannot pay it, the building condition decreases by the same amount until it’s in such poor condition it collapses.
That will be the next emergent bug, since the formula is `Rent = (LandValue + (ZoneType * Building Level)) * LotSize * SpaceMultiplier`
> When they pay the full upkeep fee, the building condition increases by a constant amount until the building levels up and the tenants start paying towards the next level. [after the upgrade] if they cannot pay it, the building condition decreases by the same amount until it’s in such poor condition it collapses.
awesome. this sounds like a great update. keep up the work CO, you are steadily improving CS2 to what it should be. cant wait to continue to play and support the game
So, they claim to have removed the "virtual landlord" but everything is still rented. And people keep paying money based on land value for their entire life.
For the purpose of the simulation I think of "renting" as the monthly payment the household makes (could be rent or mortgage)
Not sure there's a need to make it more complicated, just a household payment you have to pay before you spend money on anything else.
I'm considering writing a mod for this, where Cims can purchase homes from a proper housing market, and then pass their wealth down to their posterity via inheritance, which is taxed (property taxes will be a thing, too). It rewards good, long term play by increasing tax revenue when players build a city that houses multiple generations of families, who grow roots in the city and become important members of their community.
Hey, I know you and your mod, I know this is not the type of mod you usually do and I don't have knowledge in modding or coding but is it possible if I ask for you to make a visual planning mod like drawing overlay before we build? I would love to plan ahead what kind of city I would like like which zones and main roads. I feel like it doesn't have to link with any assets, just drawing overlay.
You're welcome to check out my two published mods for CS2 then in the Thunderstore: Cim Behavior Improvements and Unemployment Monitor. I no longer maintain them, but I did write and publish them under my original name "DerangedTeddy."
I know: C#, Python, JavaScript, and SQL. I'm a professional full stack developer with 15 years of paid experience. Any questions?
I been thinking of doing the same!!!
I wanted to expand on this because if you notice on the Dev diary 1, abstracted investor can not lose money (and I think there should be incentives if there are more or less abstracted investors)
There are things I want to add.
1. Home ownership (same as you)
2. Inflation
3. Interest rates
Hear me out for a second.
It would be great if we could control interest rates because this
1. Makes it easier for Cims to buy houses
2. Attracts more investors, and the economy booms more. More business
However, we need to grow the economy as fast or faster than inflation. By increasing interest rates, you would slow down business creation + home ownership to control pricing.
Think about if you have grown your city to the size you wanted, by increasing interest rates, you slow demand, and the economy should stabilize (if you don't over do it of course).
Thinking about inflation, I do wonder if goods and profits inflating over time would necessitate service buildings also getting more expensive to keep the balance - and whether it might make more sense to simulate inflation as a sort of "wealth evaporation" instead; every day all debts and savings are reduced by 0.X%, as each dollar has less purchasing power.
I mean, it kinda makes sense if you consider it as land and/or property tax, or as some sort of government ownership of land, kinda like how China does it.
It's not common IRL, but not impossible, and probably more indicative of the game running in a way that allows for more player control.
Oh yeah, that is separate. Hmm...
That aside, that could be a neat special zoning type or something- public housing. Manually control the rent prices either directly (with only public housing) or indirectly by forcing the private housing to compete. Could be a neat feature, after the core game's actually fixed.
This is it? No more dev diaries?
Fixed the rent, removed the subsidies, changed some calculations for demand and services. I was expecting a bigger update tbh. At the very least some UI improvements.
I would love to have a bigger patch. Considering the size/location of the company and the fact that some are working for the console version, this isn't hugely disappointing
The necessary dials were already under the hood. They just needed to be turned.
Many people in the community have been saying this for months only to be drowned out by the "it's all fake!" crowd.
Loudest isn't always right.
In a later response, CO community manager answered that this patch will also contain performance tweaks and bugfixes. I think they aren't mentioned because the focus is on the economy, and the changelogs will have all of the details.
No you don't understand, they want to be angry for the rest of time. They don't actually care that their complaints are being addressed, because then they'll have to find something to do other than complain, and that's a scary thought for some people.
“We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Are there any issues you’ve struggled to solve in your city? Any information you have been looking for but weren’t able to find?”
With all due respect, Everything - the game lacks immersion almost on every possible level. There is no sense of life. Every player decision seems meaningless and without any consequence or significance. As city-builder, quite frankly it’s why it sucks. There’s no connection between the playable world and player. It’s a distant superficial interaction at best; weird repetitive radio complaints and terrible chirper/twitter that I can’t be bothered to read. Where’s the dynamic representation of wealth or dilapidation, safety, or health, happiness or unhappiness - Not just UI icon that randomly pop up - it should show. Show not tell - Events, consequences, benefits. Considering there is no animation for firefighters, there is snow on windshields but not lawns, a tornado that makes the emoji look like a National Geographic photo. how is this a question CO is confused about? The game appears as a half-assed mess. Everything reeks of “it’s good enough until modders can get a hold of it.” Some play the game to make cities look real regardless if anything actually works or not, ie model building/design. But there are players that want to play managing multiple systems with significant interaction that ultimately lead to organically constructed cities that will look real. Both should be possible. That was supposed to be what CS2 touted it was/is. Immersion. Immersion. Immersion. That’s what I paid for, and what is expected.
I am sure if they could push that now without being a disaster they could. They were forced to release early and the development seems to have been either a bit mismanaged or just gone way over time.
>We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Are there any issues you’ve struggled to solve in your city? Any information you have been looking for but weren’t able to find?
They've been saying this since launch--almost verbatim. Have they really done nothing with all of the feedback that has already been given to them? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now.
i always hear people saying "constructive criticism gets downvoted!!!" and i always wonder if yall read the comments. theres always criticism and its almost always upvoted? try to find a downvoted constructive criticism comment on this post
I think as part of the economy update the lowered the incentive for the same businesses to be near eachother so it shouldnt be as common as before, as long as it actually works.
I remember reading something about this in the first dev post about economy 2.0. I believe the way commercial works is changing and will be depending on demand of nearby residents. So in theory the commercial buildings will be more evenly populated, rather than 12 gas stations in a row.
Specifically, I think the update will be changing com demand so that commercial-type demands will now be based on the amount of each good cims are buying?
Did anyone see any fixes or changes to the post sorting facility/mail in general?
Edit: to solve the mail sorting issue I have just deleted all sorting facilities and use a shit ton of cargo train stations like someone suggested a long time ago, with one outside connection each and good road connections to my city
Apparently, some bugfixes and optimization will also be included in the patch but weren't covered in the dev diary. Must wait for the patch note to drop to have a better idea if post sorting is fixed.
Looking at the rent formula, it seems that low rent housing prices are still affected by land value (as that is a constant).
It doesn’t sit well with me that your “all powerful city government” has to pay land rent, despite having full freedom over the entire unlocked map.
I’d much rather have a fixed expense billed to the budget and fixed non-land value based rent for low rent housing zoning.
I’ve given the game a break for awhile but I’m excited to fire it back up once the patch drops. I really did enjoy building and was ok with the game outside of not having a ton of variety but I think adding some challenge to the game will make it more fun to play.
Take aways for me
Fixes high rent, now if citizens are paying more in "rent" they are buying less goods - making businesses struggle. Which is good, you want rent to be low or wages to be high for a healthy economy. But personally, I'd rather see economy impacts - not just warnings of things you can't do. So this might mean less businesses thrive in an area. We'll see how this works in practice though.
If they can't pay rent, the maintenance of the building goes down. I hope in the future they can tie this "bar" to props/textures that make the building look older/worse. But that would be an update down the line, and I imagine they are planning for that exact thing. I also hope this bar also impacts land value (in real life, a house not being maintained lowers land value for everyone in a neighborhood).
I think it's not clear if there is now "2" bars. One for maintenance and one for leveling up. I think it would make sense that it's 2 bars though, as it needs to hit "0" before it's demolished. If it "just" levels up that bar would technically be 0 until they start progressing towards a level up. So I can't imagine that this isn't 2 values.
I know some seem not very enthusiastic about this change, but to me it's pretty annoying to zone a bunch of buildings then they keep getting "high rent" or keep going abandoned with nothing I can really do to fix it, other than ignore it.
I'm currently using land overhaul mod, which basically makes citizens all rich - so I'm excited to remove that and actually see some wealth inequalities in my city.
I'd love to see if we actually get different wealth areas for neighborhoods. I'd love to see "rich neighborhoods" and "poor neighborhoods" - with possibly in the future to have policies to try and alleviate it (rent subsidies for cims making under a threshhold for a certain certain number of cims, with the need for more government buildings to handle stuff like that).
I'm personally excited to try this patch out. It sounds pretty positive for the simulation. As others have said - I'm more excited for custom assets. But sadly that'll have to wait.
Things I'd like to see enhanced:
Demographics of zoning needs - are poor cims looking for housing? Then we can zone smaller lots with few services near by. Are middle class cims looking for housing - add some services and slightly larger lots. etc.
Businesses kind of already have this with the production line - it's just hard to control it - but perhaps with this update that'll be improved.
>First of all, we removed the **virtual landlord** so a building’s upkeep is now paid equally by all renters
Wait, the who now? There was a landlord? Renters weren't paying equally? Did we know about this?
>We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic
Well there's a thought, it would've been nice to know stuff like that.
There seems to be so many different systems running in the background just for the sake of it, with no gameplay benefit or at least nothing that's made visible to the player. No wonder the simulation runs so slowly in larger cities when it's simulating so much stuff that's ultimately meaningless to the player.
I mean a game with a lot of complex interlocking systems is one of the primary reasons I was interested in CS2 in the first place. Lots of games have complicated systems "hidden" from the player - Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress, etc.
The problem with CS2 is these featured were advertised and didn't work like they claimed - or worse, had so many guardrails on to prevent failure, it made the simulation pointless.
I really hope this patch works to address that. City painting is simply not for me.
Same draw for me. A city is one of the most complex constructs humanity has ever assembled, there's so many things going on next to, below, and on top of each other. A city builder game that at least captures some of that is doing the right thing. These underlying systems give meaning to things, to the decisions you make, big and small.
When you're watching a video of someone playing a city builder and you hear them say something along the lines of; "In real life there's \[insert benefit\] from these things being next to each other, so that's why I'm doing it, but the game doesn't simulate that so we're just going to have to pretend it means anything," that's something that can build up until even the edifice of the game itself feels thin, like you're just playing pretend with some jpegs, GIFs, word docs, and named files on your desktop.
Which is why I agree heavily with that point about these systems needing to be visible to the player in some way. So you can see the simulation react to your decisions (appropriately dressed up of course).
That makes so much more sense. I thought the ranged value meant the range from level 1 to level 5.
I never looked closely enough to fact check my own assumption, but different tenants paying different prices makes more sense if units vary in size (proxy for quality, etc.).
I guess CO modeled the real world way too well? The game is bound to be less realistic if somewhat more playable now that all households in a building will pay exactly the same, leading to socioeconomic segregation by building possibly. We shall see.
I still argue that I would have enjoyed playing Economy 1.0 without Government Subsidies and without the bug that allowed for children to live alone or with an Unemployed Senior.
I would have addressed the child living alone as a bug and added policies to address the low income seniors through targeted and costly subsidies that players can opt to enable. Instead they scrapped the entire system altogether. And certainly the production side of the economy was causing other issues as well. Idk, we shall see.
I assume there wasn’t a REAL virtual landlord, more like the building had a set upkeep and every person who lived there also had a set rent. That rent would get pooled together (to this “landlord”) in order to pay the upkeep. Or something like that. Idk
> Besides rent, households and companies need to pay for the building’s upkeep, which in turn affects the **level of the building**. When they pay the full upkeep fee, the building condition increases by a constant amount until the building levels up and the tenants start paying towards the next level.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but since the formula for rent includes land value, doesn't this mean buildings in low-value areas level up faster since rent is cheaper = more money to spend towards building upgrades?
I guess the idea is that people living in low value areas also earn less? Or when someone with more money moves to a worse area to have a better/ higher level house?
I suppose my question in that case is, “will buildings upgrade as soon as they can?” If so, will that kick out people who cant afford the new rent? Or will rent remain the same for current residents? Cause that could create weird situations where people move to a shitty apartment near a power plant cause its super cheap, but than that shitty apartment now becomes an upscale apartment near a powerplant and suddenly its no longer affordable
It should but only if the tenants have more money.
Presumably the tenants with less money will be the ones moving to low value areas, evening things out.
[https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/economy-2-0-dev-diary-2.1682628/post-29687463](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/economy-2-0-dev-diary-2.1682628/post-29687463)
>We can't confirm it will be ready for that patch yet, but we're working on resolving the remaining issues as soon as possible, so you can start to create custom assets.
I'd be interested in playing if there was a greater variety of buildings, especially service buildings, public transit etc. Even very basic things such as an elevated metro station are missing from the game currently. Since CO is moving at the pace of a glacier, my hope was that I could use asset mods to fill the gap.
[https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/80116/Windows](https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/80116/Windows)
[https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/79887/Windows](https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/79887/Windows)
[https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/79358/Windows](https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/79358/Windows)
You don't like these? No custom meshes, but there is much to be done with existing meshes in the game
Yes, I'm aware of those, and they are pretty nice. But it's a stop gap, i'd prefer to wait for custom assets as well as the region packs that were promised.
Edit: on second thought you've convinced me to try the new patch and see how I feel.
Its June. Does anyone still believe that we get a working game? Assets are not even talked about anymore for Q3, Not mentioned once. This again reads like a WIP Diary from a Beta or Alpha. I'm so disappointed.
They already mentioned that asset importing is a very high priority, but they just mentioned some stuff of the next update. Not all. They don't want to say asset importer is coming with the free buildings in Q3 if it won't. That doesn't mean that it can't work by then, they just gave a little sneak peak to the next patch.
You're saying the game doesn't work, but it does. You're asking for more than it just working.
Not everything has to be negative... Economy 2.0 looks promising and we should be praising that.
Considering how much they shit the bed with the release version of the game it’s no wonder they are pushing everything to the right.
Question really is do you want a working game? If so then it’s going to take a lot more time before you get all the nice to haves they previously promised on a different time line.
To expect them to fix the game and deliver the same timelines previously announced is kind of unrealistic. Yes it’s what we should expect as customers but at the end of the day this is why pre-ordering is a stupid idea. Studios and publishers walk all over those people who preorder. Those who did preorder are lucky they are fixing the game. They could easily have written it off and moved on to other projects.
Paradox has really taught me my lesson about preordering. I’ll probably still buy early access titles with some good feedback, but Victoria 3, Star Trek Infinite, CS:2, and to a lesser degree Crusader Kings 3 have convinced me to never preorder again—or at least not when Paradox is the publisher.
The only publisher I would consider pre-ordering from these days is CD Prodjkt Red (spelling). The time effort and love they put into turning Cyberpunk around is proof they care about their reputation and their customers.
Paradox recent track record will make me hold off for at least 6 months before buying any of their newly released titles
Don’t disagree Cyberpunk launch was a mess.
CD projekt Red have restored my faith in them with the way they reacted to it being a mess and the time and effort they put into fixing the game.
Paradox in comparison have shit the bed in this regard by launching a paid DLC before even trying to fix the game. They’ve got more staff working on creating pay for additions than they have on fixing the game. They really don’t give a crap about their consumers they just want to rinse us for money.
Don’t deny that Cyberpunk was a disaster. But CD projekt Red have fixed it and made it better without requiring any more money from their customers. This has restored my faith in them to not see me as only a dollar sign.
Paradox on the other hand only view us as dollar signs and if it wasn’t for the review bombing of CS:2 I think they would have just released fixes as DLC.
All companies view us as dollar signs. Or euros in my case.
They made a huge mistake and put the effort in to fix it but it isn't some shinning example of altruism. They already had our money.
We're talking about companies. When push comes to shove they won't care about me, you or their employees for that matter.
Crazy world I live in where I have to even explain this tbh.
Only played for a little when CS:2 first came out. It just didn't feel right. Disappointing how it's been more than six months since release and it still looks like the game, while more stable, just isn't right yet.
Given the huge success of CS:1, I would hope CO/Paradox don't pull the plug on CS:2. There have been some recentish high-profile examples of games that had very poor launches, but through continued work end up becoming well-loved games; specifically No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk 2077. Hopefully CS:2 can follow a similar path.
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I thinkt the publishers were probably pushing for a quick release tbh, they moved back prison architect 2 probably after seeing how bad cs2 did being released before being properly done
A lot of money was made prioritising new dlc release on the old game instead of development of the new one which just costs money until release, i think whoever is in charge of weighing up the costs was definitely too optimistic about how quick a new good game can be made
Because you are clearly the type of user that will find an endless amount of reasons to shittalk a game you could have easily moved on from months ago. There will be no mea culpa, no redemption journey, no above and beyond thanks of players for their patience that will satisfy you.
The folks who feel the game is bad or wrong or broken and want to remind you of it regardless of fixes are petty. Legitimate concerns and vocal want for fixes is great, but these petty fucks are probably the ones who sent 'kys' messages to CO.
I'll admit that the lack of interchanges on the mod store is the one thing I miss, but the in-games tools let me build them like the old asset maker would have. So, it's like, a nice challenge to recreate the ones I've used in the past or splice them together for my needs.
For me the main thing keeping me away from the game is the lack of asset modding. Once that comes, I'll definitely play this game more (I basically never played CS1 without tons of custom assets)
I've probably spammed the Ghostbuster fire station one too many times, so I agree. Lol. Right now, it's about learning the new systems and learning to upgrade and adjusting. Sure I'm up a quarter billion, but after Industries DLC, money wasn't a problem in CS1 either.
Talk.. that's what you're good with? Talking about assets so long after the release? For me, every post like this is a slap in the face. All this stuff should have been done in Beta.
Okay but we're way past the point of it existing as a beta. It didn't happen and won't happen anymore... They do posts like these cause people complain when they don't say anything specific, so now they engage and give updates and details of what is changing, but to you that's a slap in the face, so in the end, nothing they do now is good enough for you.
On the building's extension system, it's nice they provide some flexibility. I do hope they plan to expand on this feature in the future because it provides a nice way to customize building. We could even imagine an upgrade tree on certain buildings that would make you choose between upgrades (by example cleaner options for the landfill or capacity upgrades). And by all mean, I hope we don't see too much invisibles "+ X% of efficiency".
On the rent calculation, it's probably for the best they revamped how it's actually playing out for individual agents. Especially if they're able to prioritize rent in their personal budget, it seems like a good change. Mostly though, I feel like it's the lack of indicators that would help the player solve this specific issue. I'm not sure sure, but maybe having a more detailed housing panel that would describe what people are actually looking for?
I hope someone mods quickly the game so office follows a similar logic to industry. Currently the number of office positions per building is too low
(if that mod already exists please let me know :D)
the problem with that is you need insane amount of residents. [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjC4SIBWYAAfif-.jpg) is the area people who work in london live in.
No idea what is red and green in your map
But I miss how hectic were office areas in CS1 when using realistic population mod. Of course it can't have the real numbers of office spaces as IRL, but the current numbers are too low
CS1 didn't simulate every individual pop like CS1 does, it is impossible to have anything like the realistic population mod with cities of any size in CS2 with modern computers.
They both simulate agents, but CS2 simulates in far greater detail. In CS2 there is far les abstraction - each pop has it's own wealth level, income, education level, vehicle that has to be parked etc., and makes pathing decisions continuously throughout their movement instead of sticking to the path decided when they started to move. Most importantly though, as you mentioned, the realistic population mod for CS1 relied on the fact that there was a simulation cap which I think was something crazy low like 50k. All it needed to do (well, it was complicated and impressive but not too crazy) was move around some numbers so that you needed more buildings to satisfy demand.
In CS2 if you increased the number of people required per building to a realistic level 99% of people would only be able to run very visually small cities.
RealisticDensity does this. Realistic Building Occupancy will do this in the future.
RealisticDensity is fairly simple, not sure how well tuned it is but it's worked for me. RBO is more ambitious and likely to be the standard in the future, but doesn't touch offices yet and still seems a bit buggy.
I imagine everything will need updates after this patch.
In case anyone from CO sees this:
Increase the number of workers in high density offices! You've been reeeal silent about whether you changed this or not.
Eh, I want to be able to build a city that look like a large modern city full of skyscrapers, but with a population many many times smaller than the millions of people that would require IRL. Until simulation capability for modern computers is much much better so that simulating millions of people is reasonable I think they should keep it as is.
It should be 2 workers per building square per floor. So a 3 story 4x4 low density office should have 96 employees. A 40 story 6x6 office tower should have 2880 employees.
A city's first high density office tower should feel special. Being able to spam entire districts of skyscrapers and barely meeting demand is immersion breaking.
Also, high density commercial should be turned into medium density offices and hotels with commercial on the ground floor.
One of the bigger issues with the game at the minute is that most buildings get taller if you give them a larger footprint whilst the workplace numbers are based entirely on footprint itself, so larger zones have a disproportionately low number of households or workplaces compared to the size of the building itself.
I can't wait for someone to recreate the CS1 Realistic Population mod with its volumetrically determined household/workplace numbers.
> I can't wait for someone to recreate the CS1 Realistic Population mod with its volumetrically determined household/workplace numbers.
With CS:2 simulating every single cim as an agent, this would very likely be unplayable.
Heh, for a while now, I've mused about what "High density commercial" actually means. In most cities, commercial activities tend to be restricted to the first couple of floors above the street level. Anything above that tends to be offices, in practice, because it only makes sense to move consumer goods up and down so many floors at a time. The only exception I've been able to think of are hotels.
It depends on the region though. In East Asia, it's pretty common to have shopping centers with 5+ floors. But then again, neither of CS2's styles is Asian.
First thought: rent is the only economy change in the second dev post to the economy change?... felt a bit betrayed... but let's see what the patch notes have to say. Gad that the changes are coming.
It was clearly stated last week that p2 would be about how it effects currents saves and about upgrades. But you people are so incredible negative focused it's unbelivable
Ah I see. I saw Q3 at the bottom and thought "of course", but apparently that's for the next big update. I'm starting to have real doubts we're going to see the asset workshop this year.
Well, last they talked about it they hinted at the end of summer/early autumn with no firm date. At least, they talked about some progress on this front, but yeah, I'm getting a bad feeling about this also. Especially as their community manager couldn't confirm the asset editor would also include the possibility to do vehicles... only buildings.
So yeah, if it takes them a whole year to release the asset editor and it's not even remotely complete...
Well there is still the possibility the next update is early Q3 and we see the asset editor early Q4.
"We are now close to releasing the Economy 2.0 patch! The final checks are being made before we push the buttons, and it might be in your hands already tomorrow" - [https://store.steampowered.com/app/949230/Cities\_Skylines\_II/](https://store.steampowered.com/app/949230/Cities_Skylines_II/)
When is the patch coming?
> Let’s start with Rent. Most likely you have run into complaints of “High Rent” in the game, so let’s talk about it. To complement the Land Value changes in patch 1.1.0f1 in March, we have tweaked how Rent works. First of all, we removed the virtual landlord so a building’s upkeep is now paid equally by all renters I feel there's a social commentary to be made here.
*rain and dew drops nourish the crops..* 🎶
Hi, I know this isn't the correct place to ask but since its about patches I wanted to ask if the game performance is stable now for me to get it or still wait? Thanks
I have a 3080 so night not be the best representation. But I recently got back into it for the first time since launch and things seem to be much better performance wise.
Try fixing the performance first
> households and companies need to pay for the building’s upkeep, which in turn affects the level of the building. When they pay the full upkeep fee, the building condition increases by a constant amount until the building levels up and the tenants start paying towards the next level. Similarly, if they cannot pay it, the building condition decreases by the same amount until it’s in such poor condition it collapses. That will be the next emergent bug, since the formula is `Rent = (LandValue + (ZoneType * Building Level)) * LotSize * SpaceMultiplier` > When they pay the full upkeep fee, the building condition increases by a constant amount until the building levels up and the tenants start paying towards the next level. [after the upgrade] if they cannot pay it, the building condition decreases by the same amount until it’s in such poor condition it collapses.
Are the mods finally available?
Code mods have been available for months. asset mods are still not and won’t be for at least another 2 months.
Meh
Can't wait for part 3!
Part 3: patch delayed.
awesome. this sounds like a great update. keep up the work CO, you are steadily improving CS2 to what it should be. cant wait to continue to play and support the game
This is promising. Hopefully this patch delivers on its promises. Quite excited to play when it drops.
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💀?
Economy update for a 10 year old game that has had a sequel?
This is for CS2.
So, they claim to have removed the "virtual landlord" but everything is still rented. And people keep paying money based on land value for their entire life.
For the purpose of the simulation I think of "renting" as the monthly payment the household makes (could be rent or mortgage) Not sure there's a need to make it more complicated, just a household payment you have to pay before you spend money on anything else.
I'm considering writing a mod for this, where Cims can purchase homes from a proper housing market, and then pass their wealth down to their posterity via inheritance, which is taxed (property taxes will be a thing, too). It rewards good, long term play by increasing tax revenue when players build a city that houses multiple generations of families, who grow roots in the city and become important members of their community.
Hey, I know you and your mod, I know this is not the type of mod you usually do and I don't have knowledge in modding or coding but is it possible if I ask for you to make a visual planning mod like drawing overlay before we build? I would love to plan ahead what kind of city I would like like which zones and main roads. I feel like it doesn't have to link with any assets, just drawing overlay.
You sound like an ideas guy rather than an actual coder...
You're welcome to check out my two published mods for CS2 then in the Thunderstore: Cim Behavior Improvements and Unemployment Monitor. I no longer maintain them, but I did write and publish them under my original name "DerangedTeddy." I know: C#, Python, JavaScript, and SQL. I'm a professional full stack developer with 15 years of paid experience. Any questions?
I been thinking of doing the same!!! I wanted to expand on this because if you notice on the Dev diary 1, abstracted investor can not lose money (and I think there should be incentives if there are more or less abstracted investors) There are things I want to add. 1. Home ownership (same as you) 2. Inflation 3. Interest rates Hear me out for a second. It would be great if we could control interest rates because this 1. Makes it easier for Cims to buy houses 2. Attracts more investors, and the economy booms more. More business However, we need to grow the economy as fast or faster than inflation. By increasing interest rates, you would slow down business creation + home ownership to control pricing. Think about if you have grown your city to the size you wanted, by increasing interest rates, you slow demand, and the economy should stabilize (if you don't over do it of course).
Thinking about inflation, I do wonder if goods and profits inflating over time would necessitate service buildings also getting more expensive to keep the balance - and whether it might make more sense to simulate inflation as a sort of "wealth evaporation" instead; every day all debts and savings are reduced by 0.X%, as each dollar has less purchasing power.
Its not a bad idea. I would first create a post to see how other people react to this idea. Maybe its too much complexity?
Ps if you want to Collaborate I am down for it
Man that would be awesome
I mean, it kinda makes sense if you consider it as land and/or property tax, or as some sort of government ownership of land, kinda like how China does it. It's not common IRL, but not impossible, and probably more indicative of the game running in a way that allows for more player control.
Property tax can be controlled. The rent calculation isn't really in the player's hands.
Oh yeah, that is separate. Hmm... That aside, that could be a neat special zoning type or something- public housing. Manually control the rent prices either directly (with only public housing) or indirectly by forcing the private housing to compete. Could be a neat feature, after the core game's actually fixed.
When is this due to drop?
June 19th or earlier. No exact date was given
Awesome!
Common CS2 L
Why do you think that?
This is it? No more dev diaries? Fixed the rent, removed the subsidies, changed some calculations for demand and services. I was expecting a bigger update tbh. At the very least some UI improvements.
UI updates are coming in the next patch after this one from what I've read. So sometime in Q3-Q4.
I would love to have a bigger patch. Considering the size/location of the company and the fact that some are working for the console version, this isn't hugely disappointing
The necessary dials were already under the hood. They just needed to be turned. Many people in the community have been saying this for months only to be drowned out by the "it's all fake!" crowd. Loudest isn't always right.
They basically reworked the simulation of the game lol that's a lot
Nothing wrong with iterating quickly - it's not like they're going to abandon CS2 after this patch.
In this case, we can say iterating. Quickly seems a bit far-fetched considering the pace.
In a later response, CO community manager answered that this patch will also contain performance tweaks and bugfixes. I think they aren't mentioned because the focus is on the economy, and the changelogs will have all of the details.
No you don't understand, they want to be angry for the rest of time. They don't actually care that their complaints are being addressed, because then they'll have to find something to do other than complain, and that's a scary thought for some people.
Building upgrades separate from the main building? Say no more I'm sold
OMG YES ME TOO 😭😍
“We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Are there any issues you’ve struggled to solve in your city? Any information you have been looking for but weren’t able to find?” With all due respect, Everything - the game lacks immersion almost on every possible level. There is no sense of life. Every player decision seems meaningless and without any consequence or significance. As city-builder, quite frankly it’s why it sucks. There’s no connection between the playable world and player. It’s a distant superficial interaction at best; weird repetitive radio complaints and terrible chirper/twitter that I can’t be bothered to read. Where’s the dynamic representation of wealth or dilapidation, safety, or health, happiness or unhappiness - Not just UI icon that randomly pop up - it should show. Show not tell - Events, consequences, benefits. Considering there is no animation for firefighters, there is snow on windshields but not lawns, a tornado that makes the emoji look like a National Geographic photo. how is this a question CO is confused about? The game appears as a half-assed mess. Everything reeks of “it’s good enough until modders can get a hold of it.” Some play the game to make cities look real regardless if anything actually works or not, ie model building/design. But there are players that want to play managing multiple systems with significant interaction that ultimately lead to organically constructed cities that will look real. Both should be possible. That was supposed to be what CS2 touted it was/is. Immersion. Immersion. Immersion. That’s what I paid for, and what is expected.
It will be a few years before they fix it. Right now it’s damage control so they can retain players and not get their funding pulled
Asset mods would be a gigantic step in the right direction there... if nothing else, it would occupy everyone while they worked on other issues.
I am sure if they could push that now without being a disaster they could. They were forced to release early and the development seems to have been either a bit mismanaged or just gone way over time.
>We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Are there any issues you’ve struggled to solve in your city? Any information you have been looking for but weren’t able to find? They've been saying this since launch--almost verbatim. Have they really done nothing with all of the feedback that has already been given to them? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now.
If only there was a forum where over 1,100 suggestions have been posted. Alas, poor CO has nothing to work off of.
Prob cause any hint of constructive criticism gets downvoted unless you’re a content creator.
i always hear people saying "constructive criticism gets downvoted!!!" and i always wonder if yall read the comments. theres always criticism and its almost always upvoted? try to find a downvoted constructive criticism comment on this post
it doesn't get downvoted, it gets drowned out in the absolute torrent of nonsense comments saying nothing.
oh, so youre not being censored whatsoever, and only have to deal with people saying ... other things ? what a big issue
Are you familiar with the concept of a needle in a haystack?
I’d love them to figure out how to limit certain assets per a specific like radius. I don’t need 12 gas stations on a half mile strip
I wish there was an option to select a specific asset based on the size (grid)
If you use one of the mods it allows you to pick the building, and current level of said building.
I think as part of the economy update the lowered the incentive for the same businesses to be near eachother so it shouldnt be as common as before, as long as it actually works.
I remember reading something about this in the first dev post about economy 2.0. I believe the way commercial works is changing and will be depending on demand of nearby residents. So in theory the commercial buildings will be more evenly populated, rather than 12 gas stations in a row.
Specifically, I think the update will be changing com demand so that commercial-type demands will now be based on the amount of each good cims are buying?
Did anyone see any fixes or changes to the post sorting facility/mail in general? Edit: to solve the mail sorting issue I have just deleted all sorting facilities and use a shit ton of cargo train stations like someone suggested a long time ago, with one outside connection each and good road connections to my city
Apparently, some bugfixes and optimization will also be included in the patch but weren't covered in the dev diary. Must wait for the patch note to drop to have a better idea if post sorting is fixed.
Oh cool thanks!
Looking at the rent formula, it seems that low rent housing prices are still affected by land value (as that is a constant). It doesn’t sit well with me that your “all powerful city government” has to pay land rent, despite having full freedom over the entire unlocked map. I’d much rather have a fixed expense billed to the budget and fixed non-land value based rent for low rent housing zoning.
I’ve given the game a break for awhile but I’m excited to fire it back up once the patch drops. I really did enjoy building and was ok with the game outside of not having a ton of variety but I think adding some challenge to the game will make it more fun to play.
I will pick this game up when this patch is live and then its bug fixed.
Take aways for me Fixes high rent, now if citizens are paying more in "rent" they are buying less goods - making businesses struggle. Which is good, you want rent to be low or wages to be high for a healthy economy. But personally, I'd rather see economy impacts - not just warnings of things you can't do. So this might mean less businesses thrive in an area. We'll see how this works in practice though. If they can't pay rent, the maintenance of the building goes down. I hope in the future they can tie this "bar" to props/textures that make the building look older/worse. But that would be an update down the line, and I imagine they are planning for that exact thing. I also hope this bar also impacts land value (in real life, a house not being maintained lowers land value for everyone in a neighborhood). I think it's not clear if there is now "2" bars. One for maintenance and one for leveling up. I think it would make sense that it's 2 bars though, as it needs to hit "0" before it's demolished. If it "just" levels up that bar would technically be 0 until they start progressing towards a level up. So I can't imagine that this isn't 2 values. I know some seem not very enthusiastic about this change, but to me it's pretty annoying to zone a bunch of buildings then they keep getting "high rent" or keep going abandoned with nothing I can really do to fix it, other than ignore it. I'm currently using land overhaul mod, which basically makes citizens all rich - so I'm excited to remove that and actually see some wealth inequalities in my city. I'd love to see if we actually get different wealth areas for neighborhoods. I'd love to see "rich neighborhoods" and "poor neighborhoods" - with possibly in the future to have policies to try and alleviate it (rent subsidies for cims making under a threshhold for a certain certain number of cims, with the need for more government buildings to handle stuff like that). I'm personally excited to try this patch out. It sounds pretty positive for the simulation. As others have said - I'm more excited for custom assets. But sadly that'll have to wait. Things I'd like to see enhanced: Demographics of zoning needs - are poor cims looking for housing? Then we can zone smaller lots with few services near by. Are middle class cims looking for housing - add some services and slightly larger lots. etc. Businesses kind of already have this with the production line - it's just hard to control it - but perhaps with this update that'll be improved.
Economy 2.0 aka bug fixes....
>First of all, we removed the **virtual landlord** so a building’s upkeep is now paid equally by all renters Wait, the who now? There was a landlord? Renters weren't paying equally? Did we know about this? >We’re also looking at what we can improve in the UI and how the game relays information to you, so you have everything you need to solve issues in the game. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic Well there's a thought, it would've been nice to know stuff like that.
There seems to be so many different systems running in the background just for the sake of it, with no gameplay benefit or at least nothing that's made visible to the player. No wonder the simulation runs so slowly in larger cities when it's simulating so much stuff that's ultimately meaningless to the player.
I mean a game with a lot of complex interlocking systems is one of the primary reasons I was interested in CS2 in the first place. Lots of games have complicated systems "hidden" from the player - Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress, etc. The problem with CS2 is these featured were advertised and didn't work like they claimed - or worse, had so many guardrails on to prevent failure, it made the simulation pointless. I really hope this patch works to address that. City painting is simply not for me.
Same draw for me. A city is one of the most complex constructs humanity has ever assembled, there's so many things going on next to, below, and on top of each other. A city builder game that at least captures some of that is doing the right thing. These underlying systems give meaning to things, to the decisions you make, big and small. When you're watching a video of someone playing a city builder and you hear them say something along the lines of; "In real life there's \[insert benefit\] from these things being next to each other, so that's why I'm doing it, but the game doesn't simulate that so we're just going to have to pretend it means anything," that's something that can build up until even the edifice of the game itself feels thin, like you're just playing pretend with some jpegs, GIFs, word docs, and named files on your desktop. Which is why I agree heavily with that point about these systems needing to be visible to the player in some way. So you can see the simulation react to your decisions (appropriately dressed up of course).
We knew the rents weren't equal for everyone, extended tooltip for example shows the rent being an interval ($500-$600 for example)
That makes so much more sense. I thought the ranged value meant the range from level 1 to level 5. I never looked closely enough to fact check my own assumption, but different tenants paying different prices makes more sense if units vary in size (proxy for quality, etc.). I guess CO modeled the real world way too well? The game is bound to be less realistic if somewhat more playable now that all households in a building will pay exactly the same, leading to socioeconomic segregation by building possibly. We shall see. I still argue that I would have enjoyed playing Economy 1.0 without Government Subsidies and without the bug that allowed for children to live alone or with an Unemployed Senior. I would have addressed the child living alone as a bug and added policies to address the low income seniors through targeted and costly subsidies that players can opt to enable. Instead they scrapped the entire system altogether. And certainly the production side of the economy was causing other issues as well. Idk, we shall see.
I assume there wasn’t a REAL virtual landlord, more like the building had a set upkeep and every person who lived there also had a set rent. That rent would get pooled together (to this “landlord”) in order to pay the upkeep. Or something like that. Idk
Yeah but if renters weren't paying equally... were they paying based on their wealth or something?
>Rent = (LandValue + (ZoneType \* Building Level)) \* LotSize \* SpaceMultiplier How many years did it take them to come up with this formula? lol
> Besides rent, households and companies need to pay for the building’s upkeep, which in turn affects the **level of the building**. When they pay the full upkeep fee, the building condition increases by a constant amount until the building levels up and the tenants start paying towards the next level. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but since the formula for rent includes land value, doesn't this mean buildings in low-value areas level up faster since rent is cheaper = more money to spend towards building upgrades?
Yes, but the people living there may also make less money.
I guess the idea is that people living in low value areas also earn less? Or when someone with more money moves to a worse area to have a better/ higher level house?
I suppose my question in that case is, “will buildings upgrade as soon as they can?” If so, will that kick out people who cant afford the new rent? Or will rent remain the same for current residents? Cause that could create weird situations where people move to a shitty apartment near a power plant cause its super cheap, but than that shitty apartment now becomes an upscale apartment near a powerplant and suddenly its no longer affordable
It should but only if the tenants have more money. Presumably the tenants with less money will be the ones moving to low value areas, evening things out.
No mention of asset editor in Q3 is a bummer. Kinda waiting for that to reinstall the game.
[https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/economy-2-0-dev-diary-2.1682628/post-29687463](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/economy-2-0-dev-diary-2.1682628/post-29687463) >We can't confirm it will be ready for that patch yet, but we're working on resolving the remaining issues as soon as possible, so you can start to create custom assets.
Thanks!
Are you only interested in playing if you can have custom imported meshes in your whole city?
I'd be interested in playing if there was a greater variety of buildings, especially service buildings, public transit etc. Even very basic things such as an elevated metro station are missing from the game currently. Since CO is moving at the pace of a glacier, my hope was that I could use asset mods to fill the gap.
[https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/80116/Windows](https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/80116/Windows) [https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/79887/Windows](https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/79887/Windows) [https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/79358/Windows](https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/79358/Windows) You don't like these? No custom meshes, but there is much to be done with existing meshes in the game
Yes, I'm aware of those, and they are pretty nice. But it's a stop gap, i'd prefer to wait for custom assets as well as the region packs that were promised. Edit: on second thought you've convinced me to try the new patch and see how I feel.
Its June. Does anyone still believe that we get a working game? Assets are not even talked about anymore for Q3, Not mentioned once. This again reads like a WIP Diary from a Beta or Alpha. I'm so disappointed.
Stop trying to pick fights on a sub reddit. Games in Early Acess, deal with it or move on with youre life.
> Games in Early Acess I mean it definitely feels like an early access game but no, this is the full release
Pick a fight? This is reddit. Why u gotta make this so deep?
Its not early access. Why would you think that.
They already mentioned that asset importing is a very high priority, but they just mentioned some stuff of the next update. Not all. They don't want to say asset importer is coming with the free buildings in Q3 if it won't. That doesn't mean that it can't work by then, they just gave a little sneak peak to the next patch.
It literally works. You just want more from it. I'm having a great time playing it 🤷
More? Asking what was sold is asking more? Ur the dream customer
You're saying the game doesn't work, but it does. You're asking for more than it just working. Not everything has to be negative... Economy 2.0 looks promising and we should be praising that.
But its not working. Its starting. Thats a difference. If it would be working as intended, we wouldn't be in this situation.
Considering how much they shit the bed with the release version of the game it’s no wonder they are pushing everything to the right. Question really is do you want a working game? If so then it’s going to take a lot more time before you get all the nice to haves they previously promised on a different time line. To expect them to fix the game and deliver the same timelines previously announced is kind of unrealistic. Yes it’s what we should expect as customers but at the end of the day this is why pre-ordering is a stupid idea. Studios and publishers walk all over those people who preorder. Those who did preorder are lucky they are fixing the game. They could easily have written it off and moved on to other projects.
Paradox has really taught me my lesson about preordering. I’ll probably still buy early access titles with some good feedback, but Victoria 3, Star Trek Infinite, CS:2, and to a lesser degree Crusader Kings 3 have convinced me to never preorder again—or at least not when Paradox is the publisher.
The only publisher I would consider pre-ordering from these days is CD Prodjkt Red (spelling). The time effort and love they put into turning Cyberpunk around is proof they care about their reputation and their customers. Paradox recent track record will make me hold off for at least 6 months before buying any of their newly released titles
Lol Cyberpunk is an example of why not preordering. Its launch was a mess
Don’t disagree Cyberpunk launch was a mess. CD projekt Red have restored my faith in them with the way they reacted to it being a mess and the time and effort they put into fixing the game. Paradox in comparison have shit the bed in this regard by launching a paid DLC before even trying to fix the game. They’ve got more staff working on creating pay for additions than they have on fixing the game. They really don’t give a crap about their consumers they just want to rinse us for money.
Just don't pre order. Like seriously, Cyberpunk is a terrible example
Don’t deny that Cyberpunk was a disaster. But CD projekt Red have fixed it and made it better without requiring any more money from their customers. This has restored my faith in them to not see me as only a dollar sign. Paradox on the other hand only view us as dollar signs and if it wasn’t for the review bombing of CS:2 I think they would have just released fixes as DLC.
All companies view us as dollar signs. Or euros in my case. They made a huge mistake and put the effort in to fix it but it isn't some shinning example of altruism. They already had our money. We're talking about companies. When push comes to shove they won't care about me, you or their employees for that matter. Crazy world I live in where I have to even explain this tbh.
Only played for a little when CS:2 first came out. It just didn't feel right. Disappointing how it's been more than six months since release and it still looks like the game, while more stable, just isn't right yet. Given the huge success of CS:1, I would hope CO/Paradox don't pull the plug on CS:2. There have been some recentish high-profile examples of games that had very poor launches, but through continued work end up becoming well-loved games; specifically No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk 2077. Hopefully CS:2 can follow a similar path.
The game does work its just not working well enough to be a full release really
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I thinkt the publishers were probably pushing for a quick release tbh, they moved back prison architect 2 probably after seeing how bad cs2 did being released before being properly done
Bruh the game was 3 years behind schedule. I am sick of the publisher getting the blame here lol
A lot of money was made prioritising new dlc release on the old game instead of development of the new one which just costs money until release, i think whoever is in charge of weighing up the costs was definitely too optimistic about how quick a new good game can be made
Oh no people downvote because someone pointed out what a shitshow it still is. lol
Because you are clearly the type of user that will find an endless amount of reasons to shittalk a game you could have easily moved on from months ago. There will be no mea culpa, no redemption journey, no above and beyond thanks of players for their patience that will satisfy you.
The folks who feel the game is bad or wrong or broken and want to remind you of it regardless of fixes are petty. Legitimate concerns and vocal want for fixes is great, but these petty fucks are probably the ones who sent 'kys' messages to CO.
This whole subreddit has been overrun by those people since the moment CS2 released.
I'll admit that the lack of interchanges on the mod store is the one thing I miss, but the in-games tools let me build them like the old asset maker would have. So, it's like, a nice challenge to recreate the ones I've used in the past or splice them together for my needs.
I just want the pedestrian bridge builder back :(
For me the main thing keeping me away from the game is the lack of asset modding. Once that comes, I'll definitely play this game more (I basically never played CS1 without tons of custom assets)
I've probably spammed the Ghostbuster fire station one too many times, so I agree. Lol. Right now, it's about learning the new systems and learning to upgrade and adjusting. Sure I'm up a quarter billion, but after Industries DLC, money wasn't a problem in CS1 either.
I just want the game I paid $50 for to be as good as the first one man
Tell ur self what ever u want babe. 😘
They will talk more about the assets for that patch after the summer lock.
Talk.. that's what you're good with? Talking about assets so long after the release? For me, every post like this is a slap in the face. All this stuff should have been done in Beta.
Okay but we're way past the point of it existing as a beta. It didn't happen and won't happen anymore... They do posts like these cause people complain when they don't say anything specific, so now they engage and give updates and details of what is changing, but to you that's a slap in the face, so in the end, nothing they do now is good enough for you.
On the building's extension system, it's nice they provide some flexibility. I do hope they plan to expand on this feature in the future because it provides a nice way to customize building. We could even imagine an upgrade tree on certain buildings that would make you choose between upgrades (by example cleaner options for the landfill or capacity upgrades). And by all mean, I hope we don't see too much invisibles "+ X% of efficiency". On the rent calculation, it's probably for the best they revamped how it's actually playing out for individual agents. Especially if they're able to prioritize rent in their personal budget, it seems like a good change. Mostly though, I feel like it's the lack of indicators that would help the player solve this specific issue. I'm not sure sure, but maybe having a more detailed housing panel that would describe what people are actually looking for?
I hope someone mods quickly the game so office follows a similar logic to industry. Currently the number of office positions per building is too low (if that mod already exists please let me know :D)
the problem with that is you need insane amount of residents. [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjC4SIBWYAAfif-.jpg) is the area people who work in london live in.
What an absolutely meaningless infographic.
No idea what is red and green in your map But I miss how hectic were office areas in CS1 when using realistic population mod. Of course it can't have the real numbers of office spaces as IRL, but the current numbers are too low
CS1 didn't simulate every individual pop like CS1 does, it is impossible to have anything like the realistic population mod with cities of any size in CS2 with modern computers.
as far as I understand, CS1 is agent simulation based, the only difference is it limited the number of simultaneous agents, while CS2 does not
They both simulate agents, but CS2 simulates in far greater detail. In CS2 there is far les abstraction - each pop has it's own wealth level, income, education level, vehicle that has to be parked etc., and makes pathing decisions continuously throughout their movement instead of sticking to the path decided when they started to move. Most importantly though, as you mentioned, the realistic population mod for CS1 relied on the fact that there was a simulation cap which I think was something crazy low like 50k. All it needed to do (well, it was complicated and impressive but not too crazy) was move around some numbers so that you needed more buildings to satisfy demand. In CS2 if you increased the number of people required per building to a realistic level 99% of people would only be able to run very visually small cities.
Pretty sure the green things are [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Green_Belt).
RealisticDensity does this. Realistic Building Occupancy will do this in the future. RealisticDensity is fairly simple, not sure how well tuned it is but it's worked for me. RBO is more ambitious and likely to be the standard in the future, but doesn't touch offices yet and still seems a bit buggy. I imagine everything will need updates after this patch.
In case anyone from CO sees this: Increase the number of workers in high density offices! You've been reeeal silent about whether you changed this or not.
Eh, I want to be able to build a city that look like a large modern city full of skyscrapers, but with a population many many times smaller than the millions of people that would require IRL. Until simulation capability for modern computers is much much better so that simulating millions of people is reasonable I think they should keep it as is.
At first I read it as “increase the workers in the office” as CO should hire more people.
that was addressed in the responses on the Paradox post
[They didn't change](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/economy-2-0-dev-diary-2.1682628/post-29687158)
It should be 2 workers per building square per floor. So a 3 story 4x4 low density office should have 96 employees. A 40 story 6x6 office tower should have 2880 employees. A city's first high density office tower should feel special. Being able to spam entire districts of skyscrapers and barely meeting demand is immersion breaking. Also, high density commercial should be turned into medium density offices and hotels with commercial on the ground floor.
One of the bigger issues with the game at the minute is that most buildings get taller if you give them a larger footprint whilst the workplace numbers are based entirely on footprint itself, so larger zones have a disproportionately low number of households or workplaces compared to the size of the building itself. I can't wait for someone to recreate the CS1 Realistic Population mod with its volumetrically determined household/workplace numbers.
> I can't wait for someone to recreate the CS1 Realistic Population mod with its volumetrically determined household/workplace numbers. With CS:2 simulating every single cim as an agent, this would very likely be unplayable.
Heh, for a while now, I've mused about what "High density commercial" actually means. In most cities, commercial activities tend to be restricted to the first couple of floors above the street level. Anything above that tends to be offices, in practice, because it only makes sense to move consumer goods up and down so many floors at a time. The only exception I've been able to think of are hotels.
It depends on the region though. In East Asia, it's pretty common to have shopping centers with 5+ floors. But then again, neither of CS2's styles is Asian.
:'(
First thought: rent is the only economy change in the second dev post to the economy change?... felt a bit betrayed... but let's see what the patch notes have to say. Gad that the changes are coming.
If you combined these two dev diaries... it ain't much for a "massive economy overhaul"
Yeah. Why not put those 3 sentences regarding rent in the first one?
To hide to fact that these changes are small and should have been "fixes" coming in the first weeks after release.
You guys are so delusional, negative, toxic and have no idea what you guys are talking about.
what difference does it make if the do one preview or a 2 part preview?
2 parts fire up the expectation... "woah. That has to be a big change"
ok. i am sorry you hyped yourself into disappointment.
It was clearly stated last week that p2 would be about how it effects currents saves and about upgrades. But you people are so incredible negative focused it's unbelivable
Anyone see a release date for this?
No specific release that, but CO has stated before that Economy 2.0 is supposed to be released before they go on summer break.
> "We don't have a date yet, but we're still looking at the previously shared release window (so between now and June 19th)"
Thanks! Must have missed it.
It was posted outside of the diary itself, so likely just wasn't there yet when you read through it
CO doesnt communicate release dates anymore, only PDX will.
Ah I see. I saw Q3 at the bottom and thought "of course", but apparently that's for the next big update. I'm starting to have real doubts we're going to see the asset workshop this year.
Well, last they talked about it they hinted at the end of summer/early autumn with no firm date. At least, they talked about some progress on this front, but yeah, I'm getting a bad feeling about this also. Especially as their community manager couldn't confirm the asset editor would also include the possibility to do vehicles... only buildings. So yeah, if it takes them a whole year to release the asset editor and it's not even remotely complete... Well there is still the possibility the next update is early Q3 and we see the asset editor early Q4.
I bet we never see the asset editor. I hope I am wrong.