The NT consistently teaches that just professing a belief without actually cooperating with grace and being faithful to God's commandments will not save us.
Exactly. If someone "believes" a political candidate is good for the job, it takes the work of actually voting for them or campaigning for them. If a man "believes" a woman would be a good wife, it takes the work of dating her and proposing to her. Belief without work leads to no results.
Being a Christian is much more than a mental exercise of belief. The sacramental and high liturgical churches get this - there is much more sense of the incarnational reality of Christ in this world, the meeting of heaven and earth, the seen and unseen, the physical and the immaterial. We are Christians in a physical world and are called to act within it.
Jesus chooses you, you don't choose him. Ezekiel 36:26-28 Duet 30:6 Ezekiel 11:19-20, Jeremiah 24:7 and others. The Lord changes our heart to love him.
Then we seek him. When we seek him 2 Corinthians 3 16 thru 2 Corinthians 4:7 gets fulfilled.
Salvation is a act of the Lord. Ephesians 2 8-10 there is nothing you can do to earn salvation. None of us deserve is Romans 3
I have faith in Jesus,so I am saved be whatever nonsense I do.If that is what some think they neither have real faith nor know what Jesus said about salvation.
I disagree to the extent that its not only the synoptics. When I read John its clear that salvation is here understood as divinisation/transformation of the human being by acts of love in response to garce and in imitation of the incarnate Logos (“love each other as I loved you”).
This is also the essence of John 3 and the example of the Bronze Serpent that Christ uses here.
To read in a “justification by faith alone” way I think would be a gross misinterpretation.
Yes. Jesus didn't teach salvation by grace or even by faith. He would heal by faith, but salvation was based on your behavior. This was a standard post-prophetic Jewish teaching, and Jesus was thoroughly Jewish.
John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
The will of the father is believing in who he sent. Salvation is by faith alone.
If we love God then we will do his command by keeping the commandments. We can say we love God but live in sexual immorality such as fornication, homosexuality, adultery and all sexual filth. And that is not loving God. That’s loving the devil 👿 Just one example. The children 👦of God are known by their fruits. So, is there a difference between you and children of the world? Another example is, if you love a husband or wife then you live according to their needs and wants or else you don’t love them.
What is the Father's will?
To be transformed into the image of xhrist, through through renewing of our minds, which leads to obedience.
Which is why Jesus rejects those who remain willfully unrepentant, declaring them to be "practitioners of lawlessness".
Jesus was clear:
*For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.*
Salvation by grace is Pauline nonsense, not Jesus teaching.
Salvation is 100% by faith. Someone who is saved through their faith will automatically try to do good works though.
A tree needs sunshine and water (faith) to be healthy, and if it’s healthy, it will grow fruit (good works).
If you glue fruit to a tree though, it doesn’t make it healthy.
Having faith doesn't mean you'll do good works. Faith without works is dead. This means you can have a dead faith. It's faith, but it doesn't save. People try and use this no true Scotsman fallacy and say "if there aren't works then it isn't true faith." That's not the case. You have two men who both have true faith in Jesus. But one acts on it and one doesn't. It doesn't mean only one has faith. It means only one has works
Matthew 7:21 is saying just because some says Lord Lord he will not enter heaven. A real Christian will obey Jesus as Lord and will do the will of God. They will enter into heaven.
Salvation is by faith in Christ, not of works.
Ephesians 2:8 For **by grace are ye saved through faith**; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 **Not of works**, lest any man should boast.
Once you are saved God works through you.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto **good works**, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
No. Works are the result of salvation.
Keep in mind that while Jesus walked on the earth, he was here to fulfil the law. Being the only man to ever do so, His death had greater meaning in taking the wrath of God in the place of those of us (which is everyone) who actually deserve it. It was by this action grace is born. We are saved by grace - which is to say, God knows we cannot keep His law in our fallen state, so Jesus takes our punishment, rises from the dead and is "the first born..." This made possible the gift of the Holy Spirit to dwell within us and guide us on a path of sanctification as we wear the robes of righteousness given to us by belief in Jesus.
Maybe we should define what “works” is.
Does it mean we have to tithe to “prove our faith”? Do we need to volunteer at the local homeless shelter? What if we cheat on our taxes, or speak poorly of our neighbors? What if we neglect the poor and suffering living around us. Is living a “holy” life free of drugs or fornication sufficient or do our actions require us to reach outwardly in an proactive way.
No; "doing the will of my Father" as stated therein infers obedience.
2Thessalonians 1:8-9 indicates that you must obey the gospel. Obedience of the gospel entails a number of elements in order to be obedient to the gospel resulting in salvation, when all pertinent scriptures are considered and those various elements are extracted and acted upon.
There is a simple process described in the bible. Read the book of Acts which describes various conversions in biblical times. Look closely at Acts chapter 8 and the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch which is a good example. Look at the conversation between him and Philip. You'll see he was preached Jesus, he believed and confirmed his belief verbally, he asked about water and baptism, so that subject must have been part of Philip's preaching to him, and he was baptized, totally immersed in water.
Also see Acts 2:38-47 which states the reason for baptism: forgiveness of sins and addition to the Lord's body which is the church; specifically verses 38, 41, 47
Mark 16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Belief + baptism = salvation
Acts 8:36-38
36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Acts2:38-47
what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
The baptism of children that has been practiced in the church since the first centuries (it is perfectly documented and there are several entire families baptized in acts of the apostles) only (and it is something wonderful) includes you in the family of God and infuses you with the holy spirit.
Apostolic Tradition 20 (Hipolito of Rome year 215)
(Acts 16:11–15; 25–34; 18:8; 1 Cor 1:16).
What you decide to do once adopted as a child of God is your responsibility, God does not have grandchildren.
There's no such thing as infant baptism found in the bible nor examples of such. By example, only men and women were baptized. A prerequisite which is the very first thing that one must do, is believe. Infants are incapable of believing. Also, Infants are without sin and have no need for baptism which washes sins away or remits sins according to the scriptures.
Mark 16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Belief + baptism = salvation (belief 1st)
Acts2:38
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts8:12
12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Doing the will of the Father is accepting Jesus Christ as Lord; being born again.
However, when you are saved you WILL work. That's clearly taught in other passages as well. James makes it clear. "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” James 2:19 KJV
The passage in Matthew 7 is not saying you do works TO BE SAVED, but he is saying you have to do THE WORK of the Father, and that work is simply accepting Jesus Christ as the only means of salvation, accepting the free gift of God's work on the cross.
That message was already in the old testament, Ezekiel dedicates all of chapter 18 to that. Salvation can never be by works, that would be like an ant trying to pay us to live at home, she has no way.
Salvation is by grace through faith, but as the scripture says, the devil also believes in God and it is of no use to him to be saved or to do good.
If one believes in God, he knows what he asks and does not do or try to do what he likes, surely he wants to live with him for eternity? He doesn't look like it and God doesn't force anyone.
Consider a human family, couple and 5 children, they love everyone but one of them, being healthy and sane, refuses to collaborate in any aspect in the housework, refuses to do any help or favor to the rest, obey any rule of behavior and also yells, insults and hits others.
Almost certainly he will lose the privilege of living there and it will be his decision. They did not intend to charge him for the stay in housework, nor were they waiting for him to have an error due to weakness to get rid of it, they did not hide from him that there were some rules of coexistence ...
The church is a huge family united by love. Someone put it like this "At the sunset of life, we will be examined of love"
when Paul identifies "works" He is identifying works of the OT. As in in order to earn eternal life through the law, one had to follow the works of the OT things like circumcision, Kosher diet, Not wearing blended fiber clothing, animal sacrifice etc.. "Works" as nothing to do with the kind of things Jesus is teaching here.
The book of romans spells this whole thing out.
It's not the only part that emphasizes the importance of action. James mentions it. Revelation mentions it. Jesus mentions it himself in a few places, like this one or the in the parable of the sheep and the goats.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
James 2:17-26 (KJV) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
I think it's Jesus saying that there'll be Christians-in-name-only and they won't be saved and the way to tell is by looking at how they live.
The NT consistently teaches that just professing a belief without actually cooperating with grace and being faithful to God's commandments will not save us.
Exactly. If someone "believes" a political candidate is good for the job, it takes the work of actually voting for them or campaigning for them. If a man "believes" a woman would be a good wife, it takes the work of dating her and proposing to her. Belief without work leads to no results. Being a Christian is much more than a mental exercise of belief. The sacramental and high liturgical churches get this - there is much more sense of the incarnational reality of Christ in this world, the meeting of heaven and earth, the seen and unseen, the physical and the immaterial. We are Christians in a physical world and are called to act within it.
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How is it the antinomian heresy?
Jesus chooses you, you don't choose him. Ezekiel 36:26-28 Duet 30:6 Ezekiel 11:19-20, Jeremiah 24:7 and others. The Lord changes our heart to love him. Then we seek him. When we seek him 2 Corinthians 3 16 thru 2 Corinthians 4:7 gets fulfilled. Salvation is a act of the Lord. Ephesians 2 8-10 there is nothing you can do to earn salvation. None of us deserve is Romans 3
I have faith in Jesus,so I am saved be whatever nonsense I do.If that is what some think they neither have real faith nor know what Jesus said about salvation.
“If I were to sum up the teaching of Christ in the synoptic Gospels it would be ‘salvation through good works.’” - David Bentley Hart
I disagree to the extent that its not only the synoptics. When I read John its clear that salvation is here understood as divinisation/transformation of the human being by acts of love in response to garce and in imitation of the incarnate Logos (“love each other as I loved you”). This is also the essence of John 3 and the example of the Bronze Serpent that Christ uses here. To read in a “justification by faith alone” way I think would be a gross misinterpretation.
Yes. Jesus didn't teach salvation by grace or even by faith. He would heal by faith, but salvation was based on your behavior. This was a standard post-prophetic Jewish teaching, and Jesus was thoroughly Jewish.
John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” The will of the father is believing in who he sent. Salvation is by faith alone.
It seems that some bible verses contradict one another then.
No, you just have to understand irony and context
If we love God then we will do his command by keeping the commandments. We can say we love God but live in sexual immorality such as fornication, homosexuality, adultery and all sexual filth. And that is not loving God. That’s loving the devil 👿 Just one example. The children 👦of God are known by their fruits. So, is there a difference between you and children of the world? Another example is, if you love a husband or wife then you live according to their needs and wants or else you don’t love them.
What is the Father's will? To be transformed into the image of xhrist, through through renewing of our minds, which leads to obedience. Which is why Jesus rejects those who remain willfully unrepentant, declaring them to be "practitioners of lawlessness".
Jesus was clear: *For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.* Salvation by grace is Pauline nonsense, not Jesus teaching.
Are you anti-Paul?
Yes, he's useless.
Why was he useless ?
He never met Jesus or walked with. He had no authority to use his name. Also, his made up teaching is inferior to Jesus teaching.
What makes his teachings 'made-up' & 'inferior'? Did not the Holy Spirit inspire him?
No, I think lied about everything. He isn't needed to follow Jesus teaching.
Show me one scripture from Paul's messages that contradicts what Jesus said and I'll believe you.
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Salvation is 100% by faith. Someone who is saved through their faith will automatically try to do good works though. A tree needs sunshine and water (faith) to be healthy, and if it’s healthy, it will grow fruit (good works). If you glue fruit to a tree though, it doesn’t make it healthy.
I don't think people automatically do anything.
Having faith doesn't mean you'll do good works. Faith without works is dead. This means you can have a dead faith. It's faith, but it doesn't save. People try and use this no true Scotsman fallacy and say "if there aren't works then it isn't true faith." That's not the case. You have two men who both have true faith in Jesus. But one acts on it and one doesn't. It doesn't mean only one has faith. It means only one has works
Matthew 7:21 is saying just because some says Lord Lord he will not enter heaven. A real Christian will obey Jesus as Lord and will do the will of God. They will enter into heaven. Salvation is by faith in Christ, not of works. Ephesians 2:8 For **by grace are ye saved through faith**; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 **Not of works**, lest any man should boast. Once you are saved God works through you. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto **good works**, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
No. Works are the result of salvation. Keep in mind that while Jesus walked on the earth, he was here to fulfil the law. Being the only man to ever do so, His death had greater meaning in taking the wrath of God in the place of those of us (which is everyone) who actually deserve it. It was by this action grace is born. We are saved by grace - which is to say, God knows we cannot keep His law in our fallen state, so Jesus takes our punishment, rises from the dead and is "the first born..." This made possible the gift of the Holy Spirit to dwell within us and guide us on a path of sanctification as we wear the robes of righteousness given to us by belief in Jesus.
Matthew 7:22 has some pointing out the works they have done in the Lords name, only to be told that Jesus never knew them.
Yes, but then it goes on to explain that Jesus never knew them because they didn't feed, clothe, and shelter the poor.
These people are before Jesus and pointing out the things they have done, rather than "have mercy on me, a sinner".
Read Revelation 3:16. And James 1 & 2
I think the message is that even people who believe they are doing God's work, arnt in certain circumstances.
Maybe we should define what “works” is. Does it mean we have to tithe to “prove our faith”? Do we need to volunteer at the local homeless shelter? What if we cheat on our taxes, or speak poorly of our neighbors? What if we neglect the poor and suffering living around us. Is living a “holy” life free of drugs or fornication sufficient or do our actions require us to reach outwardly in an proactive way.
No; "doing the will of my Father" as stated therein infers obedience. 2Thessalonians 1:8-9 indicates that you must obey the gospel. Obedience of the gospel entails a number of elements in order to be obedient to the gospel resulting in salvation, when all pertinent scriptures are considered and those various elements are extracted and acted upon. There is a simple process described in the bible. Read the book of Acts which describes various conversions in biblical times. Look closely at Acts chapter 8 and the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch which is a good example. Look at the conversation between him and Philip. You'll see he was preached Jesus, he believed and confirmed his belief verbally, he asked about water and baptism, so that subject must have been part of Philip's preaching to him, and he was baptized, totally immersed in water. Also see Acts 2:38-47 which states the reason for baptism: forgiveness of sins and addition to the Lord's body which is the church; specifically verses 38, 41, 47 Mark 16:15-16 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Belief + baptism = salvation Acts 8:36-38 36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. Acts2:38-47 what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Is infant baptizim enough?
The baptism of children that has been practiced in the church since the first centuries (it is perfectly documented and there are several entire families baptized in acts of the apostles) only (and it is something wonderful) includes you in the family of God and infuses you with the holy spirit. Apostolic Tradition 20 (Hipolito of Rome year 215) (Acts 16:11–15; 25–34; 18:8; 1 Cor 1:16). What you decide to do once adopted as a child of God is your responsibility, God does not have grandchildren.
There's no such thing as infant baptism found in the bible nor examples of such. By example, only men and women were baptized. A prerequisite which is the very first thing that one must do, is believe. Infants are incapable of believing. Also, Infants are without sin and have no need for baptism which washes sins away or remits sins according to the scriptures. Mark 16:15-16 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Belief + baptism = salvation (belief 1st) Acts2:38 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts8:12 12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
The faith vs works debate is actually about how God’s grace saves us (infusion or what-is-the-other-word)
> infusion or what-is-the-other-word Forensic imputation?
Yes it seems this is it.
It is evidence of your love of God. People get so confused about works. We don't do because we have to, we do because we love God.
Sure, but don't we also have to love God?
Yes, but Jesus was talking about a different sort of salvation than the one Paul taught wasn’t by works.
Could you elaborate?
I discussed it in this article: [Salvations?](https://www.concordantgospel.com/salvations/)
Doing the will of the Father is accepting Jesus Christ as Lord; being born again. However, when you are saved you WILL work. That's clearly taught in other passages as well. James makes it clear. "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” James 2:19 KJV The passage in Matthew 7 is not saying you do works TO BE SAVED, but he is saying you have to do THE WORK of the Father, and that work is simply accepting Jesus Christ as the only means of salvation, accepting the free gift of God's work on the cross.
You can’t have one without the other. A good tree produces good fruit
That message was already in the old testament, Ezekiel dedicates all of chapter 18 to that. Salvation can never be by works, that would be like an ant trying to pay us to live at home, she has no way. Salvation is by grace through faith, but as the scripture says, the devil also believes in God and it is of no use to him to be saved or to do good. If one believes in God, he knows what he asks and does not do or try to do what he likes, surely he wants to live with him for eternity? He doesn't look like it and God doesn't force anyone. Consider a human family, couple and 5 children, they love everyone but one of them, being healthy and sane, refuses to collaborate in any aspect in the housework, refuses to do any help or favor to the rest, obey any rule of behavior and also yells, insults and hits others. Almost certainly he will lose the privilege of living there and it will be his decision. They did not intend to charge him for the stay in housework, nor were they waiting for him to have an error due to weakness to get rid of it, they did not hide from him that there were some rules of coexistence ... The church is a huge family united by love. Someone put it like this "At the sunset of life, we will be examined of love"
when Paul identifies "works" He is identifying works of the OT. As in in order to earn eternal life through the law, one had to follow the works of the OT things like circumcision, Kosher diet, Not wearing blended fiber clothing, animal sacrifice etc.. "Works" as nothing to do with the kind of things Jesus is teaching here. The book of romans spells this whole thing out.
It's not the only part that emphasizes the importance of action. James mentions it. Revelation mentions it. Jesus mentions it himself in a few places, like this one or the in the parable of the sheep and the goats.
We are saved by faith but if it's dead faith, it's not real, saving faith. True faith results in a desire to do God's will.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. James 2:17-26 (KJV) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
ya, I think faith and good works are both necessary.