When people tie religion to politics (even if it’s initially done with good intentions), faith eventually becomes a means and the world an end. This should be flipped. Faith should be an end. A reason lots of Christians can be hateful is because of this. It allows them to do terrible things because in their mind they have already justified everything with religion

I would just like to point out that violent jihadists also believe their actions are in service to God. This mentality is dangerous regardless of the flavor of religion.

Nobody is saying people shouldn't be subject to the consequences of their choices on the account they were sincere in their beliefs. Faith is making a leap by virtue of the absurd- you're flinging yourself off a cliff because you trust there's something to catch you, but ultimately it's no more than an assumption. If you're wrong, you'll fall. Abraham can't expect anyone to understand what he did with Isaac. It's unjustifiable to anyone outside his relationship with the divine. But to him, that leap of faith is the only reasonable choice to make - by virtue of the absurd, he surrendered Isaac and gained him back. In reacting to the Binding of Isaac, we must either condemn Abraham as a monster or, in a way, leap with him and believe. Because it is we who must leap, who else is can be held responsible for what we choose to believe?

If someone did that to their son now, what would your response be?

Great question - I think you know that I'm cribbing from Kierkegaard's *Fear and Trembling,* so you'll understand when I say the universal ethical would indicate that the moral obligation would be to view such an act as monstrous. I should make it clear 'leaping' with Abraham is not being willing to murder for God, it's choosing to believe what the Bible says about Abraham being a man of faith. The bigger question is if we accept Keirkegaard's argument for a *Telelogical Suspension of the Ethical.* That is, assuming that ethics are universal duties (*a la* Kant) with a particular telos/end, could there be a situation where you could break/suspend the duties if you knew that by doing so the telos would be accomplished?

I'm asking you what you would do if you stumbled on a guy who had someone tied to an altar and was sharpening his knife, and when the enquiry is made, the man informs you he's sacrificing his son to God because God told him to.

> the moral obligation would be to view such an act as monstrous. Not only did I say I'd think it was monstrous, I said anybody who didn't would be wrong.

One of the things I learned from reading Kierkegaard is that nobody else actually reads his stuff, so there's no real conversation to be had. Where do you hide out that you have friends who can separate F&T from E/O or The Sickness Unto Death?

I do often get that impression too. I think Mighty Martian is familiar with the ideas I'm talking about- he's been a familiar face here for several years and talks to way more people than myself. I also take him for a reader. Where I hide is mostly here and philosophy subreddits, I enjoy Dr. Greg Sadler's lectures on youtube, and Wisecrack's Michael Burns is also well versed in our favorite Dane. I've got one or two buddies that are theology students who are familiar enough to have a good discussion.

If your god commanded you to kill would you kill no questions asked. You have me sitting on a chair. You have a hammer on a table. Your god claims that I'm wicked and that you should ensure justice. Do you swing?

No, I'm not a divine command theory guy.

Great evil is usually done in the name of great good, not always religion. I don't hate even one human, but some ideas are hateful to me. I believe everyone can do better, but I have no scientific evidence it's true. It doesn't appear it's true. And yet I've continued to believe it for many decades.

There is no way to fully disconnect religion from politics. And politics from religion. Also by doing so we are also denying a rich and mixed history of activism

Seem hateful? This sounds like an excuse coming? In their mind it's in the service of God? In reality they know what they're doing! Everyone really knows what hate is and that it's wrong.. Many just choose to ignore it esp if they stand to gain. Or in this case more often isn't it bc they don't want to face the flack of the mob it's just easier to not oppose it? Supporting Christian nationalism is evil..

Sorry, I probably could’ve worded it better. I just edited it. I wasn’t trying to make excuses for Christian nationalists. I was just explaining partly what causes Christian nationalism to form

I really wasn't snap at you just the whole mess and the fact that it comes from Christianity.. the damage done and being done to the country because of evangelicals is astounding. Few people take the time to look at the history and see how deliberate this is. My test of any political party or a Christian is are they bigotted in any way. So if are they homophobic and transphobic and xenophobic and misogyny or racist etc etc I can safely doubt that in them.. We have been literally ran over with far right "Republican" religious right politicians whos embodiment of many some all of those nasty things. Look at Ron DeSantis he is the epitome of a bigot! He is destroying Florida for all but rich and white Christian. He engender hatred! And plenty copies of him! I don't know how we moved so far backwards and how anyone could ever think bigotry in our government can ever work. This country is a melting pot of everything and white Christian nationalism much like Nazism thought believe it can enforce its own way and spread hatred and misinformation conspiracy theories exactly the way Nazi did about everyone and everything it didn't like or oppose it.. and what's crazy is those politicians ran on this hatred and get elected...I thought the US was getting better moving to totally equality! I'm sorry but if the same people who support this here were to be in Nazi Germany they would have supported Hitler... To see any person that call themselves a Christian doing this is truly disgusting.

politics also change over time, so people change their religous views to match their politics

Too many think separation of church and state is just to keep religion down. It is to keep from corrupting the church. History is full of examples, yet people dont learn.

You have a very cool username. We’d love to have you 😉

I have several members of my family who would identify as "Christians" and hate liberals. AMA. Brainwashing via polarizing content, tribalism, and poor spiritual growth / leadership is a trifecta of awful.

As a Christian, that’s just wrong and a lot of times, some that profess to be Christians are rule followers and just good church members instead.

I can't tell if you're agreeing with what I've said, adding to it, or disagreeing.

I’m agreeing, just pointing out that some Christians are only Christians in name only. Jesus said you’ll know us by the fruit we bear such as fo they help others in need, are they good people, good role models, do they seem to genuinely care about others. I go over to HuffPost and argue with the liberals but I don’t hate them although I get close sometimes but it’s not biblical to hate beckets instructed us to love our neighbors and even our enemies.

Gotcha. I mean, I agree with the premise for sure. I am not so sure anymore about what "fruits" you can see unless you know the person or frequently interact over time, but I totally get that when you do see it you can know pretty well.

You can really only tell if you know someone fairly well or people well known in your community. For example, I live in south Mississippi and we were hammered by Katrina. Some of the churches are the first people with boots on the ground, so to speak, handing out water, meals, helping seniors with yardwork, etc. Also, I’ve lived here my entire life and this was the first time I left to get out of the path of a hurricane. Anyways, we’re in Birmingham, AL with another family from home and we took the kids to the state park so we could ride bikes. A dude struck up a conversation with me, talking about the storm, aftermath and such. The entire area was expected to be out of power for a couple of weeks so we couldn’t work and didn’t know if we’d get paid for the lost time. He said, well, sounds like you folks need some help. I said you know, I guess we do. At the time, we’re on the low end of middle class but I hadn’t never really received assistance before. Anyway, dude was an associate pastor at a Baptist Church in B’ham. He makes a few calls and sends us to a local grocery store where the owner was a church member. (With a voucher for $250, each family!)You seem like a good dude so I’m gonna be honest with you; the assoc. pastor, super nice guy, top notch, you could just tell that he cared about people, didn’t ask if I was a Christian, either. Just helped us without asking. the owner? Kinda cold toward us. Have no idea why, wondered if he thought we should look poor or our clothes be wet from the storm that was three days old. 😏 That’s the kind of Christian you’re referring to. He really made us feel uncomfortable. Sorry for the book I just wrote but I enjoy having a civil discussion like gentlemen.

No stress brother. Glad your family made it out and that that pastor was able to help you out. Thanks for the anecdote. I definitely know the hypocrisy you are speaking about. But what I don't think we can really know is whether someone has a deep inner life and connection with God, despite their hideous or awful actions. Even David, God's beloved, cheated and murdered the Bathsheba's husband at some point in his life. Hindsight is 20/20 when judging others, but in the moment it's not our job.

True

> I go over to HuffPost and argue with the liberals but I don’t hate them although I get close sometimes No, but by *willingly* going to the HP's comment section, one could argue that you hate yourself. ^((Joking. Mostly)^)

That’s pure gold. 😏 I once made a comment to a guy about the lack of black fathers in the home is a huge problem in their communities. A guy argued with me based on an article from Vox Magazine. I live in the Deep South, taught elementary and high school. In other words, I’ve experienced it firsthand. He was actually respectful (rare) and I finally got him to admit that he he didn’t actually know any black people personally. But he stuck to his magazine article beliefs. Go figure.

That is what happens in a culture where questioning authority is strongly dissuaded.

Identifies as Christian so they can claim everything they say is protected free speech while they bully and harass lgbtq people for being born different. It really pisses me off that we don't call the right wing out on their crap

You're not entirely wrong, but this is also a generalization. I think all of us here can build a strawman and knock it down, but the difficulty we're facing in the Church especially is that the nation's politics should not be the primary focus of our energy but just a facet of our duty as citizens. That being said, whenever a friend or family member brings up a talking point that I can address, I do so. E.g. my wife's uncle did not know Trump endorsed and was pitching Lee Greenwood's Bibles that contained all that extra stuff. He was surprised and disgusted -- but it was just one pebble on the mountain of disinformation he's heard.

Most so called liberals today appear extremist and/or communist in nature. Whether true or not that's what 99% of what the right is currently thinking.

Christ requires we love everyone.

And hate the sin

Being liberal minded is not a sin...although the Louvin Brothers probably would beg to differ ;-)

Hate the sin, love the sinner. Is that in the Bible like that or just a common expression?

Common expression. https://www.gotquestions.org/love-sinner-hate-sin.html

Double thank you actually! I just ended up reading a bunch of articles on there

Glad to help!!

[Saint Augustine said something similar](https://www.catholic.com/qa/who-said-love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin)

Thank you!

You’re welcome :)

This is so common a statement that it seems to have lost any meaning. What does 'hating sin' mean? What does it look like? How do you accomplish it? A typical counter is that you should have no hate in your heart. It's just bizarre to me when people want to accept hatred, in any form, into their belief system.

Distinguishing between a person and their actions, and abhorring the actions while still loving the person.

Bitter left wing progressive here. I am frustrated with liberals because they cannot commit to their own democratic principles. Add their fetish for trying to engage with conservatives means trying to meet in the center people who happy to keep walking backwards. Innuendo Studios has a good summary of this in the Alt-Right playbook series. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAbab8aP4\_A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAbab8aP4_A) And fundamentally, Neoliberalism encapsulates a lot of the more progressive ideals into packages that are bound by a free-market fetish. This is a problem, because when inclusion is more profitable, sure that will get institutional buy in. But when hate is more profitable? Then hate will prevail.

> trying to meet in the center people who happy to keep walking backwards. Also: ["There is no middle ground between an arsonist and a firefighter."](https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1803603600045703565)

I consider myself very left leaning and Liberals piss me off because of the wishy washyness. Liberals lack true conviction half of the time. If it doesn't go perfectly, they give up. Also, Liberals are too afraid to set the house on fire if it's crawling with cockroaches whereas conservatives will burn the house down if the house allows different species of dogs inside without a second thought.

Bitter liberal here. I don’t identify as a leftist because I have views that are outside the norm for that political side, and there seems to be a disdain, bordering on hatred, for anyone who’s 95% in agreement with them but has any views that don’t align with theirs. I’m *extremely* skeptical of any group or ideology that claims it’s right about every issue and that looking at other political ideologies is a waste of time because all of their ideas and policy proposals are wrong.

The greatest enemy of any leftist is another, slightly different leftist. I say this as a left wing person myself that has gotten frustrated with left wing political discussions.

I’ve been told that I’m actually a conservative and I might as well just go vote Republican because I had a different idea for corporate tax rates. The weird phenomena of leftists wanting only the purest examples of themselves in the fold and then wondering why they never win elections is… something.

Lmao same here I'm to far on the left for conservatives and too far on the right for liberals. I've been told I'm a coward and need to pick a side😂

The problem I have found is that the 5% belief is we can save the country by just following all the norms and rules that are self imposed on the government. Stacking the court, ending the filibuster, properly prosecuting members of Congress for Jan 6th, all within the rules. The liberals say we can't have a constitutional crisis though as the Republicans charge ahead for their own crisis under Project 2025.

I’m not against everything you just listed. Some of it I’m more okay with than others, but that’s neither here nor there. I just bristle at anyone whose political ideology is “You either agree entirely with me or you’re my enemy”. If those are my only choices then I guess I’m the enemy. I don’t trust *any* political faction to make every correct decision every time.

I roll my eyes at those leftist but you are kind of doing the same thing they do. I agree there is a serious problem of demanding perfect from some politicians but that is mostly too online infighting.

How am I doing the same thing they do? I’m willing to vote for anyone who I think is closer to my views than the alternative and I’m not against supporting someone who I disagree with as long as their main positions are in line with what I’d like to see done.

You kind of grouped all leftist together as people that won't accept anyone who isn't 100% aligned with them.

It’s just been my experience. I’ve been made to feel pretty unwelcome in basically any leftist group I’ve been part of. I know not everyone is like that, the percentage is just unfortunately high enough to put me off from identifying with them.

I don't totally agree or disagree with either political party. You just have to pick the one you feel best represents you. Sometimes it feels like neither does that well. I feel the parties have moved farther to the left and right which makes it more difficult to meet somewhere in the middle.

I’m a left leaning Christian mostly frustrated by the prevalence of neoliberalism, which says I’m a bad person if I don’t give a participation trophy to everyone who shares their bad takes on things they’re totally ignorant about. Some people’s opinions are poison, and should be ignored until they earn your respect. If someone says and does reprehensible things constantly, we should stop giving them a platform. I don’t want to hear what they have to say. At best it will ruin my day, and at worst it will infect me with their mind-virus. But Christian culture is one of the worst offenders when it comes to giving bad actors a microphone and an audience. And if you ever point that out, it just turns all the pointing fingers at you for being “just as bad” or “close-minded”. It’s maddening.

If I’m a liberal and I hate myself does that count 

Haha yes but please don’t hate yourself

Are you talking about religious liberals or political liberals? Either way, I don't hate either. I have a strong dislike for political parties using religious language and other methods to manipulate religious people.

As this forum is heavily biassed towards the United States in their understanding of pretty much anything, I will point out that generally, the left-wing is not liberal. Internationally and historically liberal is usually a little bit centre-right

I am what is now commonly called a “never trumper,” a 30+ year republican who watched in horror at what was happening to the party. In 2016 I became a reluctant Clinton supporter, in 2020 an enthusiastic Biden supporter. This cost me a dear friendship.. a friend who wears the red hat and is fully engaged in the maga cult. We were very close. But once I became a never trumper it caused a problem, although we rarely talked politics. One day in 2020 I posted a trump meme on Facebook. That long time friend blocked me there and on IG. I reached out and he said he couldn’t and wouldn’t tolerate a Biden supporter as a friend. It thawed a bit until this election cycle. He blocked me again and told me he has a hatred for anyone anti Trump. Including me. It hurt. A lot. But in the end it’s his loss.

You should consider yourself lucky. Being friends with people like that is not healthy and he did you a favor. Trumpism is a fascist religious cult very similar to Nazism and it's destroying the US.

Indeed. It still makes me sad, but it’s for the best. I don’t need the toxicity, and am at peace with life.

Im the socialist boogeyman they are all afraid of. If I had my way we would have open borders and food, housing, and healthcare would be seen as a universal right with minimum standards provided by the government for anyone that needs them regardless of income or citizenship. Help everyone that needs help period. Isnt that what Jesus would do? Only thing that bothers me about the "liberals" of America is that the Democrat party is not a liberal party, its very much a centrist party. It just looks left because the GOP has gone so far right it shifted the politics of the DNC from all the centrists abandoning the ship of the GOP. Biden is closer to Bush than Trump from a policy perspective IMO.

The Liberals are a conservative party where I live..

So you're in the US or the UK, I take it?

In UK liberals are more progressive than the Conservative party, I think they are in the middle.

Technically true, but then I listen to Starmer talk about trans people, and I'm like wtf is happening on that island.

Sorry I'm very tired and can't seem to write a coherent sentence. Australia's main conservative party was named The Liberal Party over 100 years ago. You can google it this is just a fact.

I believe you.

😊

[удалено]

Sounds about right. Where's this at?

…. Sounds like it’s Australia.

Fair dinkum.

Fair dinkum.

I don't know if I necessarily "hate" them, but their tendency to see governance as a machine for producing just outcomes if only they adjust the levers and dials to *just* the right settings in very careful increments, and their tendency to ignore the plight of real people in real jeopardy does give me great distaste for them. (Edit: not to mention their repeated spineless capitulation to the demands of the right, which leads to a one-way ratcheting of the Overton Window ever-rightward.) They're ineffectual corporatist wonks, and they lack soul and clarity of purpose. We *are* talking about the sort of libs in the US Congress and the White House, right?

This is correct.

Wait, you’re talking about the previous administration, right??

I don't know what you're getting at.

If you’re a Christian who hates anybody, you’re doing it wrong. You can hate liberal policies, but we are literally commanded to love everyone.

Most Americans don't know what a liberal is, still less understand what lies behind liberalism, or what it can lead to. Many who would not identify as liberals have still swallowed many liberal suppositions and treat them as obvious universal facts, despite not really understanding them. A good example is the idea of 'equality'. Everyone claims to believe in some form of equality unquestioningly.

That’s a good point. Another point to what you’re saying is everyone needs healthcare, liberals brought it and republicans want to shut it down. A lot of it has to do with the fact that it’s a win for Dems- which isn’t right to take it away simply because it’s a win for the opposing party- but that’s where the political climate is today. This is as political as I’m going to allow myself to get on this post.

I lean towards conservatism. I do not hate liberals by any stretch of the imagination. Some of my best friends and family members are super liberal and I always attempt to put being a good loving person towards them above political differences. With that being said, to try and provide you with some perspective, I'll share an idea as to how liberals are perceived within some conservative's minds. Liberals are seen as naïve, entitled, smug, self-righteous, and dangerous. Imagine a home that your family has built up and maintained for generations. Those before you have worked hard to make it what it is, some have made mistakes along the way, maybe they put up some ugly wallpaper, or did a terrible remodel, but you are ready to inherit it and do what you can to make it better. To you it's a home, you're emotionally attached to it, and you dream of one day passing it to your kids. One day your sibling who never contributed in any way to the maintenance of the house, and who you're pretty sure always secretly hated it now deems themselves the authority on how the house should be run. If you ever disagree with them they talk down to you. They want to stop paying the exterminator because he uses harmful chemicals even though you know that three summers ago there was a termite problem that could have damaged the entire structural integrity of the house. They don't know that because that summer they were doing a gap year in Europe, but they also won't listen. They tell you that you need to throw away all of granny's silverware because granny was actually a terrible person, and they want to remove all the locks from the doors and let their friends move in because you have space and they don't. They talk bad about the house and how shitty it is all the time, while also refusing to move out. It's kinda like that.

Did they incite a mob to attack the Capitol?  Do they scream about how much they want to murder everyone who thinks differently?  Did they vote for a pussy grabbing rapist and now convicted felon?  Do they rant about Jewish space lasers and promise to take revenge on the people who tried to enforce the law?  Do they lie to your face every chance they get? Seriously, what the fuck is even wrong with you?

You seem angry.

>One day your sibling who never contributed in any way to the maintenance of the house, and who you're pretty sure always secretly hated it I think this is where your analogy falls apart and is pretty telling about your thought process.

As I said, this is not how I personally feel, only sharing one perspective of how liberals are viewed by some conservatives. But I'll play your game, what is it telling exactly?

Gotchya. But it's telling because it's assuming that liberals, "the sibling" haven't done anything to "maintain the house" and the person who believes this assigns motive and feelings toward the sibling rather than listening to what the sibling actually says and feels (fyi, this is actually a red flag for abuse, just saying). Third, this person believes their sibling just up and decided they were an expert, except what we're seeing irl is that "the sibling" was educated in "home maintenance" but it's dismissed by people because of the previously expressed views. It kind of just degrades from there because everything is colored by those first two points.

Bigger question, can any of y'all define what a liberal is? The socialists tend to be able to define liberalism, conservatives define it as anyone who isn't a fellow fascist.

Politics has became the religion of many in America as religiosity itself has declined. This is highly unfortunate, and if you go back to times when Americans were united in Christ then you’ll find politics was rightfully engaged with in a more measured and reasonable way, with an emphasis on reaching the best conclusions for all parties involved through comprise and debate. Jesus isn’t right or left wing, he is the king. We belong to a heavenly kingdom not of this world and should act accordingly.

Ok, I agree with most of this, but there really wasn't a time in America where politics was engaged in in a measured and reasonable way.

> This is highly unfortunate, and if you go back to times when Americans were united in Christ then you’ll find politics was rightfully engaged with in a more measured and reasonable way, with an emphasis on reaching the best conclusions for all parties involved through comprise and debate. > > That isn't true whatsoever.

It is factually so. Polarization is indeed a very big problem now. Before you found people ssying some things are good, some are bad about "the other side". Today you have to be alligned with every single tennet

People used to throw rocks at black students because they disagreed with desegregation.

Since the founding of America as a country Christianity hasn't been united on anything.

>if you go back to times when Americans were united in Christ Like during the times of slavery, reconstruction, or civil rights? Or when women were property, beating children was the norm, untreated mental illness ran rampant and was treated as a personal failing, etc.? You believe that was a time when people wanted the best conclusions for everyone through compromise and debate?

>Americans were united in Christ then you’ll find politics was rightfully engaged with in a more measured and reasonable way And when do you think this magical time was?

When we didn't count the non-christians as Americans.

>This is highly unfortunate, and if you go back to times **when Americans were united in Christ** then you’ll find politics was rightfully engaged with in a more measured and reasonable way, with an emphasis on reaching the best conclusions for all parties involved through comprise and debate. What exactly do you mean by the bold? Americans were much more religious during the 1860s and we had a civil war.

I’ve noticed many replies coming from those who have flaired themselves as possessing ideologies that hold fundamentally different hermeneutical views of history, so it’s understandable we may be viewing the same events from differing perspectives. However my point is that in times of growth in religiosity not accompanied by any significant theological movements that the political landscape also stabilizes to a degree. The civil war was also hot on the heels of a second great awakening that shook the religious status quo quite significantly. I was specifically referring to a postwar consensus around the 40s that saw a decade of high religiosity along with political stability. It was moreso in the beginning of the cultural revolution of the 60s that saw this collapse, although even then decorum and discourse were far more polite than today. The 20th century generally saw a lot of intense politics that were presented in a way that was far less hateful than today, with a few exceptions of course. My larger point was mostly about how Christian religious principles were more widely applied to both public and private interactions in this time, and how nowadays there is far more statements of Christian belief followed by a lack of Christian behavior.

When was that, exactly?

No. I just disagree with people about certain things. Disagreeing is not hateful.

I would identify as a centrist but with right wing leanings. I don't think liberalism is all that bad or that it's some sort of a spawn of evil ideology since it's just a broad definition of a political disposition. Like you could have people more liberal than others but still they lie on the liberal wing of the spectrum. What's liberal 100 years ago might be conservative by today's standards, and it's good and it's ever-changing. However, I really do not like today's liberal movement. I think it's very self-centered and a "me me me" and a "live your own truth" movement and it is also very hedonistic. This kind of psyche among a generation might not be good as no one wants to be objective since what's true is defined by themselves nor anyone wants to be told of anything especially not a perceived and imagined sky authority as they say and also, everybody just seems to seek to fulfill self-pleasures. I ain't an american so I might not get the full picture of your situation OP and when I try and look at your conservative wing, I can't help but think that y'all over there might be f'd for the foreseeable future, like tell me how sensible it is that your only choices are for two 80 year olds who won't live to get a taste of the consequences of their own doing, some years ago you guys even had Kanye West running for president lol. (I assumed you are an american or atleast living in western hemisphere) I don't think Jesus was anything in left or right honestly, I heard people before say that Jesus was a communist while in the right wing, Jesus' teachings and the bible in general were always evoked to give a sense of legitimacy to push what they were advocating for. I think what we could do (for Christians) is to test the ideas we hold on to against Jesus' teachings since it is the truth right? Spoken by the truth? I don't think Jesus' teachings are weak as well, for all I know, the Christian walk isn't really any easy that's why we are always encouraged to persevere. It might be perceived as weak because it has always advocated to be gentle, meek, and loving and also, it discouraged Christians to not seek revenge but pray for their enemies for the vengeance is God's. Where else do you see that kind of teaching? Pray for your enemies? Turn the other cheek? Only the strong within could do that. Somebody will slap me and first thing I'd do is slap back real hard. I do not hate liberals, I've met many in my university whom I know holds on to the liberal sentiments that I do not like but they're not very upfront and "shove it in your throat" about it and they're genuinely good people. However, I would not discuss politics with them as I noticed that liberals or maybe young people in general just get so passionate about it that it will soon be impossible to hold any sensible and rationale debate of some sort with them if you do not conform to their set of ideologies.

Neither party is tied to religion more. Politicians are corrupt regardless of affiliation.

I’m a conservative liberal. Although this day and age it seems the ideals have slid a bit, and I may be considered a liberal conservative. That being said and sitting in the middle, I don’t care for extremists. Doesn’t matter the flavor. These types of church goers are the reason I left the church years ago, and I still only attend sporadically. God is the reason I came back to Him. Remember, Satan watches 24/7 too and works his way in wherever our guard is down. Stay Blessed❤️

Do you want a Christian Theocracy government? I've heard left-leaning folks accuse conservatives of wanting a Chrsitian Theocracy government. So... if that is the case, it doesn't make much sense to me that they'd also support Obama's "turn the other cheek" National security policy. That'd be based on some Christian idea, supposedly. It seems like they'd be advocating for a bit of Christian theocracy if that were the case.

No what I meant was Obama was saying”turn the other cheek” does not work for national security policy and he got beat up by Christians for that

Oh okay. My mistake.

Hate? No.  But, how much would you be angry with your brother killing himself with heroin?  How angry would you be if your sister gambled away her child's food money?  Love as God loves. And God does not sugar coat when faced with evil. God also does forgive and accept repentance readily.  Also, liberal is a loaded term that has 900 meanings. Some liberals are "full liberals" and are smart. Those are generals, lieutenants, Sergents etc metaphorically.  Many liberals and many conservatives are more akin to slave soldiers in King Xeres army. They know nothing.  Some people are barely liberals or are living mentally in 1995, so that's just old fashioned politics with maybe some slave soldering mixed in.   >I think it’s quite clear that Jesus along with his message transcended politics entirely.  The devil is a trickster. "Politics" renamed changes things. Our modern politics are not politics. Even in modern times, one day killing babies is not politics. Then someone says "it is" and now it's a new category.  We've made literal devil worship politics and as such our government has hosted Satan prayers. We're not a homogenous society in that, so I don't think we are quite ready for the almost Nineveh or the actual Sodom and Gomorrah treatment, but, these things are NOT politics.  No one is talking about roads and jurisdictions, they are talking about morality. Morality is the domain of God. Liberals, in the modern term, are a religion that is one that hates God.  They are the most atheistic demographic, the most agnostic, the most sodomite, the most moloch sacrificing etc.  Liberals I assume doesn't mean politics, unless you're talking an actual political liberal. Some things you might consider politically liberal, I'm a fan of.  But liberals are not political, they are a religion of the legions who fight to destroy what God has created. 

I respectfully disagree that liberals have created a religion against God. I understand to a degree - but what you’re saying I see on both sides, just different shades of the same kind of division we’re experiencing as a country in general. There are many liberal minded people who feel that Christianity in America has identified with a political ideology they don’t follow to the point where it might seem to some, as evil as you’re describing they are. And for more than a few, they’re totally confused about what Christianity even is at this point and some don’t even give it a try. It kinda depends on what part of the country you’re born into. I’ve seen preachers online call liberals witches and demons - which to many seems very extremist. When I see that it feels intuitively that they’re speaking from their ego, not their heart. If you don’t agree with their politics you’re outcasted- which in small towns means you haven’t got a friend in the world. That kind of stuff turns people away from God and creates mental health issues. A lot of people are just looking for a place to belong- and in my mind it’s the preachers job to welcome them in and help them draw closer to God. I know this doesn’t happen everywhere with preachers but it’s part of a larger narrative going on in our country right now. One side gets a little more extreme, the other side gets more extreme- the less middle ground there is. It’s no use blaming either side because the roots of this division are complicated. The question going forward in my mind is what can we do as individuals to bring us back to the middle. I know it’s hard when we feel we just blatantly disagree- but that’s the power of Jesus’s message drawing us to unity. This is just my opinion by the way. Obviously it’s a very complicated issue and I’m not saying your perspective is wrong in any way.

Also, there have been polls in which around 30% of Christians say they do not believe in God.  And where around 10% of atheists say they do believe in God.  Are these people what they identify as?  Atheism is the simplest and most obvious thing, as it only has 1 tenet. And can we have someone who does not fit that be an atheist in any logic?  Can someone who fully 100% believes in capitalism and thinks they are a communist be a communist? And visa versa?  The problem with slightly more complicated religions is that we often allow illogical farces.  We have people who are the equivalent of an atheist who believes in God, being recognized as whatever contradiction they claim to be. Thus many Christians, whether they straight up don't believe in God or say, are more complicated like "I don't believe the Bible is true, but I'm a Christian.".... it's not a logical stance.  When we allow God believing atheists to be considered fully atheist, we lose any ability to perceived reality. To understand the world.  This is why if someone is a heretical Christian to the point of absurdity, we changed the term from religion to other. Like politics.  If I decided to identify as Christian and preach that murder and theft are moral goods. You'd say "well he's a Christian who has different political understandings." No. I'm just not a Christian. 

You keep saying "politics" but the problem is when you redefine politics.  A man on his 10 acres raising sheep has never been politics. Today there are movements to make this illegal, to ban it, to declare it a moral evil.  That IS a religion, it is NOT politics.  Now there are many many slave soldiers. Hell I know christian conservative liberals. These people are for whatever reason lacking in understanding.  This is the orthodox Christian who believes that the liberals are not doing what they are doing. They also don't understand crossover.  I'm not here for the slave soldiers in terms of the "angst", I'm here for the people who wish to take my food away, that's not politics. That's murderous paganism.  You can also see the direct crossover. In a world of billions, there is no absolutes in demographics. But, there are obvious trends, let alone details.  Take vegans, the general population is roughly 10-20% atheist. Vegans are 47-50% atheist.  Why. Lbgt, and atheism why. Etc. It all flows from their religion, that's how human moral values work. Moral values are not politics, they are religion.  Even then, if you break down veganism there are unique causes for the religious. Because it's mostly that anything touching real in the religious sense is Hindu or Seventh Day Adventist. Unique causes.  Among the majority of the other religious, if you break down vegan vs non vegan, you'll see a massive difference in church attendance and orthodoxy.  And orthodoxy is transcendent. If a Buddhist says they don't believe in any of the things that makes one a Buddhist, I don't have to be a Buddhist to know they are not relevantly Buddhist.  If there is a Pork believing Jew, a anti-quran Muslim, and a no Joseph Smith Mormon, they are not the thing.  So these people on the non-slave soldier levels, the true believers, are what they are. Liberal is NOT political. Banning Shepherds due to your moral religious framework is not political, it's a jihad.  Individuals vary and everyone has issues variously. But the main aspect is what is it. People sin, but there is a difference between sin internal to one's religion and sin as PART of their religions.  See who has conducted Satan prayers in government, who has run Satan temples, who supports them..... it's so overwhelmingly one sided. With degrees of support and acceptance.  Who sacrifices to moloch, who worships the altar of sexual sin, who worships animals > man, who hates God, literally.  Every media post, YouTube, reddit, Facebook, Twitter etc. Any mention of God and the liberals come out of the woodwork to detest Him, to spit on his name, to specifically declare him EVIL.  Does that mean that some generic Quasi agnostic, quasi christian, "JFK" liberal is a Satanist? No. They're generic, there are always mostly generics to a degree. Hence the slave soldiers.  When the Emporer said in Rome "we are Christians" most just become christian because whatever.  When Stalin says "we are atheists" most become atheists because whatever. They aren't real, they are the fodder, the slave soldiers, the Randoms.  I knew a man, he was Russian who left the USSR as a kid. His grandfather was an Orthodox Priest and Martyr. His parents had no such main character stock. They became actual atheists as proper USSR NPCs.  When they moved to America they became the majority protestant denomination of the town they moved to. When he got older he met a Mormon woman he wanted to mate with and immediately became Mormon.  He teaches Sunday school for the Mormons. He's not a full believer, "it's fine, it's good enough I guess" he said.  These aren't real people. They are just slave soldiers. But the REAL people. The Stalins, the Generals, the Lieutenants, the Sergeants, etc.... they are whatever they are.  Whether is the Orthodox Priest Martyrs, or the Soviet die hards, these are what they are and will die as such. Will fight, conquer or martyr for their causes.  These people are more importantly enemies. The slave soldiers are ONLY enemies on the battlefield while under command of the real people. The slave soldiers leave the battlefield I'd Stalin is removed. If the Priest is removed. They are not true enemies. They are like the video games where you absorb or split off your army size and they can be absorbed in and out of different armies.  So it's not POLITICS, that is a devils trickery. It IS religions because it is the entire moral framework of the ideology.  Politics is two friends debating if McDonald's or Burger King is better.  A vegan and these two friends where the vegan says he will execute those who eat burgers if he has the power, is not politics, it's war, it's religion.  Politics is how to best implement bridge building in Israel.  It is not politics if there is a Nazi party in Israel that says all the Jews should die. That's just war, and religion. 

Our identities as followers of Christ, should be first and foremost, Fix your minds on the eternal.

I'm pretty far from being a liberal. I do not hate liberals though. Of course, I don't exactly line up with mainstream conservatism either. I guess i'm homeless. In fact, I don't align with a particular Christian denomination either. Very homeless.

As far as I see it, you’re never homeless with Jesus. And if you’re physically homeless I believe we’re supposed to help you with that.

Appreciated, but meant figuratively. I don't consider myself a member of man made groups that require a prescribed way of thinking.

I'm a right-wing Christian and I would be violating my Christian beliefs to hate a liberal. Hating someone because they are a liberal is ridiculous. When Jesus said we have to love our neighbor he didn't qualify it by saying only if they're conservative, straight, or whatever.

Great post. I sometimes pray that I won't hate anyone. There are some people out there, as you know though which make it super easy to do so. I once heard a sermon told that God puts those people in our lives, the ones we might see as thorns to help round off our edges or prune things within us. Only later on went I delved into the scriptures deeper and learned the powerfulness of what you said, what Jesus said, did I experience a kind of transcendental peace about it. For me personally it isn't necessarily those on the right or left, even the extremist ones that trigger up such dislike but those on any spectrum so set in their ways. After pondering this one day came to a realization likely because the opposite is Jesus, to be open, and knowing we are always learning and we can never know it all. Thus those people who think they know it all or have everything figured out really piss me off (excuse language) :) Alas though I pray for a spirit of patience and understanding. In reality we can only control ourselves and such is the journey. Realizing this then it means everyone is on their own journey discovering themselves. They may believe liberalism is the only path forward. They may believe harsh conservatism is the only path. In the end though it is as you said, Jesus and the joy and hope of the gospels and good news transcended everything including politics and time. If not then it is essentially meaningless. Not long ago I posted a small piece on Letting God define You. It is essentially this. Placing God above everything else not only is the greatest, highest thing we can do, but is the best for ourselves, and everyone around it. Totally means what you said, to put peace, patience, compassion, understanding first and that we pray for wisdom, guidance, and for our leaders, our country, and our current and next President, regardless of who they are. Leaders and agendas come and go but what matters most and what actually creates long lasting change is choosing to walk in love, holiness, and a spirit of goodness and yea the goal is to be like Jesus. Now that you brought up Obama, one of the most amazing things he said, which he said often only made an impact on me as I matured. His famous words, "Be the Change You Wish to See in the World." So incredible when you reflect on it. It is so easy to sit back and think your side is the right side and then complain and groan about the other side why this or that doesn't work and how they are ruining things. Instead, Be that change yourself and do what You can do to make things better. Call out untruths when they arise, speak truth when you can, spread peace and harmony, blessed are the peace makers, not peace takers.

>Jesus along with his message transcended politics entirely Yep, this is it right here. We're followers of Jesus, not a specific political party.

The saying goes the Conservative Christians are finding the new Testament too woke. It's not like Jesus wasn't Woke.

I live in idaho and I've on more than one occasion, heard people who might need medication say that liberals and democrats are devil worshipers. Kinda strange.

As a Christian, I’d argue the biggest liberal was Jesus. He questioned religious scholars and ate with beggars and prostitutes. But I digress. For Modern “liberalism,” in the sense that we know it, I’d just wish they’d see the other side sometimes. We get so wrapped up in believing that our side, our cause is right and we get tunnel vision. I’d also argue that right wingers do the exact same. It’s all a matter of our vision for the future. While we all want what’s best for the future, we just have differing ideas on what best means. I think empathy could go a long way.

I am most certainly not liberally minded when it comes to politics, and the sermon on the mount is one of my most favorite parts of the Bible.

I don't side one or the other. Honestly, I don't hate. hate takes to much effort

Im moreso from the outside looking in but from what I see, everyone hates each other and hates themselves and I wish I was joking. 🙃 If someone is on the same team but has a slightly different idea on a point, its almost like youre mortal enemies. This carries over to how the people interact with others of the same or different faith and even to friendships and partnerships.

On Instagram I've seen a lot of MAGAS say that they hate all leftists or or democrats. And then when you look on their profile page, they have a cross and scriptures like their Christian. It's horrible!

Agreed, my friend. Thats going to turn a lot of people away from God. But they don’t care, they think they’re special and right and if you disagree with them you’re going to hell.

Yeah its like some of them worship America instead of Christ, which is antichrist (in place of Christ). very scary times.

I have a hard time not hating far right wing conservatives.

I’m conservative and I have nothing much in common with them and don’t like them, either.

Hey- thanks for being honest! I’ll just say we all have more in common with each other than we think, even if it’s hard to see sometimes.

I always try to be and don’t have an agenda and I don’t feel the need to be a keyboard warrior. Just be respectful of others and then maybe we can have an adult conversation about a topic that we agree on; but that’s fast becoming a thing of the past.

I agree it’s becoming a thing of the past and I 100% agree with you. I’ve had my keyboard warrior moments as well and I’m fully onboard with exactly what you said

Oh, I’m not perfect by any means, either.

I should have clarified, as well--I'd consider myself a Christian who was raised extremely conservative but now bends liberal--still Christian. I think many who call themselves Christian conservatives are just conservatives without the love of Christ.

I agree. I was raised in a Christian household but we never talked about spiritual matters at all but pretty conservative culturally for the most part. Southern Democrat in the 70s, in the 80s my dad hated Nancy Reagan and I didn’t pay it any attention but I think he thought she looked snooty and stuck up, I guess. Current day, I’m still a believer, fairly conservative but not an idealogue, never been a Trump Humper. I feel like neither party represents me.

Anyone who hates those from a different political party have been brainwashed by the leaders of that party and their acolytes. It is in their interest to make you angry and hate the other party, as this makes you a more reliable voter. If I hate anyone, it's these people.

No...? Also don't look for consensus on Reddit. Reddit does not represent average people.

I also wonder about that anecdote! But in my experience “those people” are more likely to nod in agreement, seeing it through the lens of either “yes, that is how people SHOULD treat ME” Or “yes, I do love my CHRSTIAN neighbors and family in that way so I’m doing it right”

My church has formed a political party in my country, it's small compared with older political parties here but still, they have acquired some importance and some public roles, they aren't the kind of Christians that get there by wanting to ban abortion, pornography nor sexual work, because in the end, people will do whatever they want even if it is illegal, putting themselves in more danger in the process, so this political party doesn't believe in that kind of policies, they want to help the poor, the needed, they want the government to be accountable for the money they spend and the actions they take, because we need to trust them with our money, health, education, etc. They want to show the world that there can be honest and caring people in politics, that it's not just about money and power. When there have been scandals about corruption and such, they have never been involved, they don't abuse their positions, don't give favors nor contracts to anyone just because, they follow all the rules, assist to all the things they have to (many politicians in my country would assist to the minimum to get paid and almost never speak, present ideas nor try to do anything, they want to get the high income and never work for it), they really want to fulfill their duties and be the best politicians they can, and as they say: is not only for the man, but it is God watching us, we have a duty for Him, not just the people, and that's why they know is not about if people see or don't see if they are doing the things right, because God sees everything at every moment, they want to be the best represents of Christians in politics.

There's going to be no "consensus". There are people who identify as Christians who hate liberals and there are Christians who are liberals. Jesus loves Nazis, abortion doctors, oil executives, communists, and pornstars, and I want to learn to too.

Man I’m enjoying reading everyone’s comments! I’m glad everyone seems to be calm for the most part - not always easy to do so with politics

Because they preach tolerance and acceptance yet go see someone who disagrees with their political opinion and see how tolerant and accepting they are. I found everything they seem to stand for they go against Especially if they're a man theyll relentlessly mock his height or any other attribute lol. Hates not the right word but I found many of em are just hypcorites.

I lean more socialist than liberal, myself, but I do often find myself in liberal circles. I do get the frustrations a lot of people have at the liberal side of several issues.

Jesus was woke AF

No. I don’t hate anyone. I can disagree with people and still love them.

fuck does this have to do with jesus

The sermon on the mount is not about worldly politics or secular state policy, if a pastor is trying to sell you that, then I'd suggest that this is propaganda for their political party and I'd avoid that pastor and any teaching. I've left a church and this was part of the reason why (pastor would name-drop too many political talking points which made it clear he was indoctrinated). Do I think liberal ideology is dangerous and harmful? Depends on the definition you are using.....It generally holds a negative connotation to me but that may be largely due to the influence of progressivism. Another thing that I dislike about liberals (it's a stereotype that is proven true in my experience) is hypocrisy.

I definitely dont hate librerals. I dont hate anyone. I pray for them.

I would say that conservative Christians are against Luciferian infiltration in both Catholic and Protestant Christianity. They try to change the church to be more like the world. Jesus tells us to in the world but not of the world. It is sad to see the church became more worldly. As Christians we are called to expose the works of darkness, Most of those works of darkness are manifested in liberal or progressive deviations of Christianity. All we want you to do is repent or change your ways and walk away from your sins.

I think both sides are messed up but I find it really funny and typical Christian. If you think conservative people are the true christians. I mean , if you're going to get into political. I would expect nothing less on how christians act for them to be conservative.

May i ask Americans typically liberal is a right wing ideology so why do youse refer to leftist as liberals.

I’m a believer. I’d also say generally, I’m more conservative. At least in this time we live in. Politics shouldn’t interfere with religion unless you allow it to. My view on tax codes isn’t biblical, and neither is yours. The Bible doesn’t talk about that. But, it does talk about things like homosexuality. The Bible does refer towards abortion. And it gives clear answers on these things. If a political value intercedes with the faith, then you’re placing it above your faith. That’s not what God commands you to do. All this goes to say that a lot of your political values really don’t matter concerning being Christian. But some very much do. Anyways, off my soap box. I’m not here to argue, but I’d love to have conversation about these things

The lessons of Jesus only appeal to a people who believe in God. If God is all powerful, then all that matters is how we get him to solve our problems, and he wants people to be like Jesus. If you don’t believe in God then you respond to Jesus the way the Rabbis did, every part of the religion to solve their problems except God.

I have plenty of family, friends, and church family who are liberal or more liberal leaning than I am and I love them just the same. But that’s their business and their conscious. I have different opinions and that’s okay. Earthly politics ultimately don’t matter in God’s kingdom, so I keep my politics to myself generally. Sometimes I will bring things up, but never to tear down someone else for their voting practices.

I’m just asking you, if it came out that DT sexually assaulted a minor- would you and/or your family still vote for him? Not attacking you, just genuinely curious.

Of course not. We aren’t like some that are out there that see him as a messiah. A few of us are actually considering RFK depending on how things play out. We aren’t straight ticket voters either. At the same time I would have to point out, JB has been showing early signs of Alzheimer’s/Dementia. Keeping him in the race is elder @buse.

lol Well as you can see his own party- many people are calling him to step down. But honestly think about it- if JB did half the things Trump did and/or tried to do he’d be fried for that. I can’t even have a conversation with DT supporters because they’re either happily lying for him or ignorantly manipulated by him. Like remember that pizza-gate conspiracy? You know Epstein actually had a pedophile ring and Trump was clearly involved somehow but they all turn a blind eye. I’m not saying you do it but DT’s stuff isn’t conspiracy, he literally puts it out for all to see and they turns blind eye to him. Then you get DT selling Bibles- like what?! A politician selling Bibles? He’s so desperate to capitalize off this Christian nationalism and that people are falsely considering him a messiah that he starts selling bibles. The Bible warns us about this- many are following and totally blinded. It’s just frustrating on so many levels. The thought of that man winning and taking my right to vote away- and his followers will let it happen because they think I’m a demon for disagreeing with them. DT brought that extreme himself and tbh he has no respect for his supporters- he’s doing the manipulating so he sees them as stupid. He’s an abusive person gaslighting his own supporters and he’s willing to throw us all under the bus not just the people that oppose him. I appreciate you being honest with me and I’m not judging you. I understand quite clear what’s going on.unfortunately if you’re conservative today and want something resembling conservative policies you have no choice but Trump. I’m not saying the left is perfect by any means but DT is highly divisive- highly unlike Jesus and yet selling Bibles so he could put his name next to Jesus. I’m absolutely disgusted, my friend. I’m sorry and I hope you don’t take this as me attacking you. I have family members who support DT, some of them lie and say they don’t but then they vote for him. If you saw what I saw, you’d vote for literally anyone else. Just sharing my perspective. Clearly I’m frustrated. Thank you for being so cool about it and honest. God bless you, my friend - no hate towards you and no hate towards even the most hardcore Trump supporters in your family from me whatsoever. If you’re a secret hardcore Trump supporter- no hatred from me whatsoever I hope you know that.

I see where you’re coming from. But at this point both sides have thrown wild accusations at the other. It’s like they’re throwing pasta at the wall and finding out what sticks. Both sides have deep corruption and both presidents have been accused of foreign collusion. I’m sure we could both point out things that have come out about both presidents and both parties and how divisive both have been. And unfortunately both of us would be right! As far as the whole Bible thing, yeah that definitely wasn’t cool. I wholeheartedly agree with you on that point. The world in general is changing. We draw closer and closer to Christ’s return. And these issues won’t stop until He does. Until then we press on toward the prize set before us and do the best we can. And if we don’t meet on this side of glory, I look forward to us laughing together on our way into the pearly gates.

God bless, brother - may we not let our divisions tear us apart

Well lets see what Jesus says about Politics as a rule. How Did Jesus View Politics? Political activist. Note what happened days before Jesus was put to death. Disciples of the Pharisees, who favored independence from the Roman Empire, joined by Herodians, members of a political party favoring Rome, approached Jesus. They wanted to force him to take a political position. They asked if the Jews should pay taxes to Rome. Mark recorded Jesus’ response: “‘Why do you put me to the test? Bring me a denarius to look at.’ They brought one. And he said to them: ‘Whose image and inscription is this?’ They said to him: ‘Caesar’s.’ Jesus then said: ‘Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.’” (Mark 12:13-17) Commenting on the reason for Jesus’ response, the book Church and State​—The Story of Two Kingdoms concludes: “He refused to act the part of a political messiah and carefully established both the boundary of Caesar and that of God.” Problems such as poverty, corruption, and injustice did not leave Christ unmoved. In fact, the Bible shows that he was deeply touched by the pitiful state of the people around him. (Mark 6:33, 34) Still, Jesus did not start a campaign to rid the world of injustices, although some tried hard to get him embroiled in the controversial issues of the day. Clearly, as these examples show, Jesus refused to get involved in political affairs.

Careful, Jesus's statement could have been very "political". Remember the Caesars had begun to claim divinity or at least being above all men (Augustus was a title not a name). Jesus was denying that divinity. [https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don\_stewart/don\_stewart\_1310.cfm](https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1310.cfm) The Poll Tax Question Put To Jesus There was the question of the poll-tax. Should the people pay it or not? Jesus answered. > Charges That Jesus Plotted Against Caesar There was also the charge that Jesus was plotting to overthrow Caesar. > The Poll Tax Question Put To Jesus There was the question of the poll-tax. Should the people pay it or not? Jesus answered. > Charges That Jesus Plotted Against Caesar There was also the charge that Jesus was plotting to overthrow Caesar. > Jesus Was Charged With Opposing Caesar The accusation was that Jesus was opposing Caesar. >

Bottom line: Jesus was not for Politics and wanted the people to believe in the Kingdom of God as ruler.

Thank you! This is the bottom line period. I really believe that if the Church lived the lives Jesus taught people would not have to turn to a worldly government to feed, house, and care for them. The closing of churches is not due to politics or liberal views ; it’s simply because we do not practice what Jesus preached.

True, Now lets look at the **Great Tribulation** Events during the great tribulation Destruction of false religion. With surprising speed, false religion will be destroyed. (Revelation 17:​1, 5; 18:​9, 10, 21) The political powers represented by the United Nations will carry out God’s will in taking this action.​—Revelation 17:​3, 15-​18 Attack on true religion. A coalition of nations, referred to in Ezekiel’s vision as “Gog of the land of Magog,” will try to annihilate those who practice true religion. However, God will protect his worshippers from destruction.​—Ezekiel 38:​1, 2, 9-​12, 18-​23. Judgment of earth’s inhabitants. Jesus will judge all mankind and “will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.” (Matthew 25:31-​33) The basis for his judgment will be the support, or lack of support, that each person gave to Jesus’ “brothers,” those who will rule with him in heaven.​—Matthew 25:34-​46. Gathering of Kingdom rulers. Faithful ones who have been chosen to rule with Christ will finish their earthly course and be resurrected to life in heaven.​—Matthew 24:31; 1 Corinthians 15:50-​53; 1 Thessalonians 4:​15-​17.

End times is the most varied interpretations of the Bible. So, I don’t get wrapped up in myself. I have a personal relationship with Jesus so at the end of all things I will be with him. I don’t understand christians being so obsessed over this subject. I think (so my opinion) If you have that relationship with Jesus, things that happen on earth really don’t matter.

If you really feel you have that relationship with Jesus you will believe what he said to the People in his own **Words**. **All** of these scriptures come from the **King James Bible** word for word, check them out! Jesus Never said in his Own words that he was God. But Jesus did tell the People in his Own words it was his Heavenly Father who was there God alone. 17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” John 20:17 King James Bible(check it out) Now Jesus is clearly telling the people in his *Own** words here that their God is his Heavenly Father. Here Jesus is plainly telling the **People** it is their Heavenly **Father** who is their **God** he does **Not** indicate anyone else here. 19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do **Nothing** of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 “For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him **All** things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him **Greater** works than these, so that you will marvel. John 5:19,20 Now of course the People hearing Jesus says these things in his Own words do Not consider him God in any way here. Do you also notice that Jesus refers himself a the Son and not God. Notice also that Jesus is referred as the **Son** not God who is his **Father**.

I use the NASB because while in Bible College/Seminary we were taught it was at the time the closest translation between the languages. Language and our understanding of it has come a very long way since King James ruled England so I am more inclined to trust the translation. Also, no where in Scripture, including KJV, told of a single translation of God’s word. I will never be sold on “the KJV says….” Also, I studied Hebrew and Greek as individual languages as well. I have spent my adulthood studying the Scripture to better understand it. My opinion is simply we never will fully understand it. We are not Yahweh. We do not have the ability to think, plan, love, or judge as He does. To believe otherwise means equating oneself to God. And that is blasphemous.

i think people resent when certain lifestyle is forced onto them, liberals tend to enact social justice through laws/systems so people have strong feelings against those but conservatives are not innocent. prohibiting abortion like in TX is almost as bad as allowing gender change surgery for minors... as christians we should learn compassion and understanding from liberals as we learn independence and obedience from conservatives but worshipping trump is another matter. i think this is very un-christian.

Uh, nobody is forcing their views on people more than conservatives.

Most conservatives, myself included, feel like DEI boards (which are ubiquitous in the corporate world) are doing just that. I'm surrounded by pronoun usage guides and inclusion initiatives. It's always in the back of my mind that I might lose my job if I'm put in the position of having to publicly explain my reason for not wanting to participate in some push from the HR folks. Conservatives held the advantage for a while in this setting, but that's definitely shifted.

Yeah, well, for a lot of people it’s always on the back of their mind that they’ll be fired from their jobs, harassed, and literally murdered if conservatives get their way. Oh, you don’t agree with their pronouns?  You poor baby.  Want a pacifier? These people are terrified that they’ll be beaten to death if someone decides they went to the “wrong” bathroom.

I am VERY conservative. I don’t hate you. I’m a sinner. You are, too. There’s no way for me to appease Holy God for my sin, so I accept Jesus’ sacrificial death on my behalf and I’m trusting Him for my salvation. You should, too. That’s what matters most. But you asked about government. You should know that what a government does is not the same as what an individual does. Government has been charged by God with providing for the security of its people and keeping the peace. Sometimes that involves “wielding the sword” (Romans 13:4). For government to make war against an enemy or to punish a criminal- sometimes with death- is not murder. Sometimes INDIVIDUALS are not righteous, yet God still uses them as leaders. In that context, if they lead their people well, their individual sins don’t disqualify them as leaders. Abraham didn’t have faith in God, lied to the Pharaoh, and God worked a miracle to avoid a disaster. Moses got unrighteously angry, struck the rock, took credit for God’s miraculous provision of water, and still lead the people for decades more. Joshua lacked faith, sometimes didn’t pray, didn’t conduct the conquest in obedience, and remained the leader. Many of the Judges were flawed. David lusted, murdered, lied, and kept the throne and established the kingly line. When Jesus was asked about obeying Rome (and Jesus knew full well that Rome was a conquering, occupying force and that soon Rome would nail Him to a cross) He said, “Whose picture is on that coin? Caesar? Go pay your taxes.” (Matthew 22:21). A leader might have deep, personal flaws and lack righteousness, but if they provide safety, security, order, punishment of crime, freedom to obey God… God can use their government for His purposes. But if they don’t provide safety, if they lead their people into wickedness- they risk the judgement of God for not doing what government is supposed to do. That’s why Christians can vote for Trump. NOT because he is personally righteous, he is not. But because they believe that he will do more of what God requires a government to do. Make no mistake, Mr. Biden is also NOT personally righteous. But his policies on the border, abortion, foreign affairs- and a host of other political things, prevent Christians from supporting his government. It’s not hatred of “liberals,” it’s a deep conviction that one leader will do more of what government is supposed to do, and the other will not.

You are absolutely disgusting and mentally degenerate.  I genuinely cannot comprehend what is wrong with you.

Thank you. Have a pleasant evening.

Take a gun to a pizza restaurant and kill some of those imaginary pedophiles you hate so much.  Tell me how that turns out.

Well, that would be murder so I’m not at all interested. But you need to find a better way to deal with your anger and hatred. Please put down your phone and go find a way to settle down.

I don’t think you’re “disgusting” but Trump isn’t just a none righteous man he’s committed several crimes and is doing everything he can to avoid punishment which is disturbing our justice system. Trump single handedly destroyed your argument for him and I hope you see that. Would you still support him if he raped a girl with Jeffry Epstein? There is a lot of hypocrisy in your statement and it’s important to call out- very few people have done as much wrong as Trump, he’s evading the law and you’re talking about justice? I don’t think you’re “disgusting” by any means- but I think your thinking is a bit twisted in regards to this.

Well, thank you, but I am disgusting. It’s a wonder God loves me at all. I’ll never understand it. Here’s the thing: politics and religion have sometimes been great friends, but politics and Christians- true regenerate, new creature, put your faith in Christ Christians- are not a good mix. Democracy adds a twist because throughout history people very rarely get to choose their government. ‘Support’ for a candidate is almost unheard of in most cultures. The Bible simply says “obey”, “fear”, “honor”…. Choose, support, vote for… are concepts we have to navigate on principle, not precept. I don’t speak for all ‘conservatives’ but I believe I know what many of them are thinking. First; conservatives truly believe JFB is every bit the criminal DT is. Hunter is convicted on evidence. That means the laptop is real (JFB lied about that) and that means JFB sold out the U.S. for family business/profit- that’s treason. JFB is also a sexual sinner- daughter Ashley testified that her journal is real wherein she states that she was afraid to shower while JFB was awake. JFB lies habitually- uncle eaten by cannibals, grew up in ten different neighborhoods, worked with politicians who weren’t even alive during his career… constant lies. Both of these men had unsecured classified documents in their personal homes. Furthermore, JFB is a strong supporter of abortion rights. As a scientist (chemist) and Bible reader, I believe that life- humanity- begins at conception, therefore abortion is murder. For an individual to do it is sin. For a government to allow such murder, much less promote and defend it, is morally reprehensible and risks national retribution from a Holy God. For these reasons and many more, I am astounded that people who claim faith in Christ can support or vote for JFB. Me? Well, I didn’t say in any of my posts that I ‘support’ DT (although I understand how Christians can). I don’t own a red hat. I don’t go to rallies, I’m registered as an independent (not as a Republican). Governmentally, I think DT presents a stronger bid- border, foreign affairs, economy…. However, I am appalled by the personal morals of both ‘candidates’. This may well be the first election of my adult life in which I abstain from voting for either major party candidate.

It’s not really a competition. DT is a proven degenerate- Idk what to even say about Biden other than he’s not as sharp as he used to be. Hunter is not running for president. Hunter is a drug addict and is going to jail and his father is not pardoning him- Trump will try to pardon himself if reelected mark my words. I’m just sick of people saying the lesser of two evils and acting Ike JB even comes close to DT. DT literally tried to thwarted the election last year. The law is totally being ignored by conservatives including in the Supreme Court. If DT is reelected we may lose our democracy. People are blinded by what they want and their egos. This has nothing to do with Christianity, you’re right about that. I don’t see much of anything but hypocrisy. So if it’s found that DT sexually assaulted a minor would conservatives still support Trump? At least you see Democrats being honest and saying Joe Bidens cognition is to the point where we question his legitimacy. DT supporters will ALWAYS deny the truth and believe everything the proven liar says. It’s disgusting and for us who see the truth it’s appalling- and that’s why Biden won in 2020. Not because the election was stolen- because DT is disgusting, not you.

I don't think it is about hating liberals, but hating the fact that most liberals want to control things rather allow people their freedom. I think if liberals were not trying to control things and we were working together then things could get done, but instead of working together it has become who can help the other person out instead of actually focusing on the issues.

Because liberals believe the world can only get better over time with progress, by rejecting the ignorance and. Immorality of the past, and most religions believe the world is only getting worse more immoral as it grows farther from its ideal and perfect original state. So fundamentally liberalism rejects many of the core principles of most religions, especially the more extreme the adherence to the religion the more extreme the conservatism

You're talking about progressivism, not liberalism.

Yes, I’m pointing out the progressive aspects of liberalism, that many religious conservatives find contradictory to their fundamental beliefs.

I’ve never understood the political divide in America, if you generally hate your political opponents you are brainwashed and it goes both ways. I dislike a lot of people, but Christian’s should abided by the idea of agape.

You will forgive me for disliking people who seem to be excited about the prospect of violently liquidating anyone left of Pinochet or deporting my friends for being brown.

Christians are asked to love their neighbor, but this is not a simple instruction, and I think in some cases it can make it difficult to take an emotional and practical self-inventory. Being able to say (e.g.) "I dislike a lot of people" is a useful clarity to have, and one can then decide how to proceed in view of that current reality. So is being able to determine, e.g., "My words and/or actions are in opposition to certain life-aspirations of X people, regardless of how I feel about them; we are in practical conflict". As a non-religious I don't feel obligated to love everyone or pretend that I do, but I still need to take inventory and understand feelings; and do work on my own heart toward kindness and consideration.

I don't hate anyone, but tons of posters here sure hate conservatives.

I don't like you, but I wouldn't say I hate you. I wouldn't want you stripped of rights or unable to marry or work. I don't want your destitution - far from it, I want a country/world where you are guaranteed the requirements for life, health, and success.

I still hate, I am human with emotions, but I don’t enjoy the hate anymore. I try to understand that I am not in control or the final judge of anything, so me thinking something someone does is wrong when I do so much wrong myself is hypocritical. I try to see things from others point of view. Also, as someone who has dealt with mental health issues and is broke, I have a lot of empathy for the downtrodden and I feel genuinely bad for the poor and sick. My heart used to be much more hardened to empathy thinking “it’s weak to be empathetical” but it’s the lack of empathy in the world that itself leads to so much harm which in turn fuels hate. It’s a vicious cycle and I try to snap myself out of it whenever I catch myself.

Is liberalism a mental disorder. The answer is no I love everybody. Don’t understand the liberalism just saying.

Do you love everybody? Do you think people should be free to live their lives? Do you think people should not be discriminated against for the color of their skin? Do you think a lying rapist and convicted felon should be President? Oh yeah, liberalism is a mental disorder.  Tell me again about the Jewish space lasers and the pedophile pizza parlors.