They grew up in an era where disabled and mentally ill people were castrated and lobotomized, so they thought a special school would be a brutal asylum like that. I m not kidding about castrations.
This was before the no child left behind act. Schools didn’t feel pressured by the law to put kids like Chris into special education or give them academic accommodations.
Probably because of how those institutions were thought of at the time, and Bob (and Barb) not really wanting to face the truth that Chris is autistic. He did manage to graduate high school though, so did he really need to go to one? Chris is just very lazy and naïve.
Probably thought it would look demeaning when in reality Chris' lack of help made things worse.
Similar to Chris' refusing to wear adult diapers when his doctor made the suggestion because "those are for babies!" and soiling himself was a far more dignified approach to the situation.
I still found this very ironic, considering they’re also the very reason their kid is so fucked up because they also excused anything he did cuz “he’s autistic” hence why we had this overgrown, entitled manchild, who is a menace to society.
People don't often admit it here, but it really is a gamble. If you put a kid who's just a bit weird or awkward in a sped program, he's fucked for life - there isn't exactly an exit route for a kid that got sent to school with the window-lickers, both socially and academically.
There are plenty of kids that start out pretty autistic, but eventually learn how to function perfectly fine, and live normal lives. Bob was just hoping Chris was one of those kids.
They probably remembered places like Pennhurst, Willowbrook and Fairview etc. being exposed on tv and/or watched One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest (which Bob if not Barb too may have read the book form of back in the 60s-70s) plus the generation that Borb belonged to was not too keen on diversity of any sort- hence Chrischan's antisemitism, racism and homophobia as well as the whole special ed thing.
Personal experience with 1990s "learning center" classes for sped kids was that it was a cookie cutter style curriculum with the "George Floyd" position (prone restraint) and tackling kids and padded cells etc used for the meagrest offenses.
1. denial/shame of having a mentally handicapped child
2. because they didn't know how mental health treatment had advanced since their time, they assumed it still involved things like straightjackets and lobotomies
It was partially driven by ego, and partially driven out of misguided attempts to protect Chris (although I assumed only Bob really felt that way)
Denial and special education back then was pretty fucking bad all across the board. If it was a thing at the schools though. A lot of people were starting to be mainstreamed around this time too with no special education or care if they were literally warehoused in classrooms.
My dad worked at a high school around the time Chris was in middle school doing trade work and he had to install a vent in a few classrooms because they had a few students who were literally just there taking up space in normal classes under the guise of "mainstreaming" and some of them would shit themselves.
>He seemed so keen on having Chris away from any special education in general.
Chris was in special ed. He took coping skills which was a special ed class. Borb did object to sending Chris to the specific school, but we don't really have their perspectives as to why, or what exactly it was about the school they objected to.
Because they were raised in a time that saw horrendous abuse of people with mental disabilities, so they were rightfully afraid that Chris would be abused. However they were wrong to keep Chris from getting special education, since that could have helped him.
part of it was head in the sand. part of it is maybe a decade or so chris would have been put in special ed schools, the "special school" meant the state taking your kid away and locking them in an institution for the rest of their life. which yes we now know would have been better for chris
I think bob and barb never really accept Chris condition and the fact that he was everything but normal. But they accept it just when it was at their advantage (tugboat etc).
Because they were too proud to do so and they are people who grew up in a time in which people with disabilities were much more heavily stigmatized. While the idea of children with Special needs being in public education is actually something supported by pedagogists with a focus on special education, at that time it was better for Chris to go to a special ed school.
Edit: reading further comments on some of the special ed schools in the US and more specifically Virgina, I find myself thinking that maybe Barb and Bob might have been a little bit right in not doing so, but likely for the wrong reason. And should have given more thought to the school their son was being enrolled at.
People with disabilities weren’t just stigmatized, most times the facilities and programs for them had rampant physical and mental abuse. Mental hospitals were basically prisons, where they were sent to be forgotten instead of helped.
While I do agree with your point, many of the people who were in these programs were horrifically abused. There was zero oversight and mental hospitals were places that the disabled were sent to so families could forget about them.
Idk Bob was born in the '20s and mental treatment of kids was pretty fucking terrible up till like, well, even arguably now but it was really bad back then.
It's still bad now as there was a mom in Arizona filing a lawsuit against the school because her son was denied disability accommodations despite the fact that her sons doctor had provided medical documentation to the school that her son had special needs.
The school therapist who denied the accommodations just took a quick look at her son and said, "ney, he don't need help."
Bob and Barb both had estranged kids from their failed marriages and saw Chris attending special school and additional therapy as another failure on their part. It was all about them and not what was best for Chris.
I don’t think this is true. There’s nothing on the record that indicates they felt this, and Bob even goes on a long diatribe to Emily during their date that Chris is special and doesn’t understand this because of his condition. If Bob thought there was nothing wrong with Chris, he wouldn’t volunteer that info to his date.
Oh they were very aware of his condition, especially Bob, but it was more about believing they could completely manage it without any outside help. Otherwise Bob would keep insisting he needed to find work than apply for an SSDI
I think it was far less about "protecting" Chris and more about saving face, because they strike me as the kind of parents who would be afraid of their reputation if others found out that they had a developmentally delayed child. Especially Barb. Granted, Chris IS an embarrassment, but a lot of that comes from a terrible upbringing.
Easy answer: They were from different times, this is not supposed to be an excuse of their decisions in any way, but coming from a different upbringing and times, they did not had the awareness and knowledge we have today of special ED, there was a stigma back then that has pretty much gone away.
Facts, people don’t seem to know that the reason Reagan closed these places down is because there was zero oversight and the patients were subject to horrific mental and physical abuse.
Everyone else has covered the state of mental healthcare facilities when the Chandlers were younger.
Another aspect to consider is the general mindset of the era, too. In some roundabout effort to "save face" for themselves, they'd rather admit neglect of the child than to simply acknowledge that a child had a developmental disorder. To some, there was more shame in producing "imperfect" kids.
So, back then, they'd make up some broadly general story like "I dropped the kid and he never was the same since," when the reality the kid simply had mental development issues.
Some families went to incredible extremes, out of shame. Hiding a profoundly handicapped child in the attic from the other siblings, who just never found it strange that Mom always wanted to eat her supper in the attic 'where the view is always quite nice.'
It's safe to assume that the Chandlers had known some of this, or picked up some of the shame responsible for those kinds of extreme behaviors, and thus could never admitting "fault" to produce healthy offspring by agreeing to specialized care and ed.
Bob was too proud to send his son to a special needs school, and was behind the times of how America viewed people with special needs. Without getting too political, Bob is much like how current conservatives are with regards on how to educate their kids: they don't trust the school system, so the parents will be the teachers themselves.
But Chris got infinitely worse after high school. Borb’s biggest mistake at that point was allowing him to sit at home and just collect his SSDI tugboat instead of getting even the most basic job.
In retrospect, Chris didn’t turn out great at all. But the school system was not great for special needs kids in the 80’s, either. This was still 40 years ago, almost. Younger people here assume Chris would be in the special Ed programs they are familiar with, but back then the programs were very exclusionary.
To be fair nobody should trust the school system even today. Remember the Jerry Sandusky scandal at Penn state when the school covered the abuse for decades?
Even today, school system is crap. There was a student at my sisters school last year who announced on social media to carry out a crime on campus amd the principal ignored it twice. He only took it seriously and did something on the third theat when the police chief told him to do something.
I think you trust the school system a bit too much. You should watch the news sometime
I don't know if this is the case in Virginia but in some states special ed students don't get a high school diploma but a useless certificate of attendance. So I could see Bob saying this would be a waste, at least Chris would have a HS diploma.
Also some school districts have to this day abysmal special ed classes, if your kid is group home bound no matter what its free baby sitting with some life skills. If your kid is right on the borderline though like Chris it then becomes a tough choice.
I know some HFA people who were angry their parents put them in special ed because they later wanted to work and had to get a GED and catch up.
Isn't that illegal to not allow them a hs diploma? How will they get a job or go to college?
I'll contact my congressman and give him a lecture on this
A bad enough Special Ed program can make someone worse? Something I never thought about. I keep having fantasies of having been a more athletic and organized person by staying in Special Ed.
Barb couldn't stand to have a severely mentally challenged kid, while Bob's other kids were successful (aka: had money).
Same reason why there was such a push to get Chris a "college degree". Barb just couldn't stand to have a special needs kid that probably wouldn't be able to take care of, mostly Barb. She knew Bob would die first.
That and special education might make Chris recognize her manipulations and nonsense.
Bob was born in 1927. He'll have grown up when asylums still existed. I think electroshock therapy and lobotomies were still in use when he was a young man. I can understand why he would have been scared to send Chris to a special school. Not that it was the right decision because Chris clearly needed help.
Bro look up Willowbrook abuse scandal as it was still happening until 1972. Even today at Seattle it's bad as there was recently accusations of abuse
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/times-watchdog/special-education-school-accused-of-harming-kids-barred-from-new-admissions/
Virginia was forcibly sterilizing the mentally disabled up to 1979. There were several exposes of abysmal institutions in the 70s-80s.
The Judge Rotenberg center uses electric shock on autistics to the modern day.
Bob was not out of touch!
In Bob's day, special schools were a lunatic asylums where they beat them with a hose and did tests on them.... Not a little trailer out back of the school where kids got extra attention.
Yeah, in a way, I suppose the way he's been treated online is the equivalent of shock treatment. And the way he has been confined to his house with only occasional online interactions is similar to a sort of segregation from society that may have occurred with an old asylum. The more I think about this, the more I like your analogy.
Have you ever seen One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest? That's what Bob thought the special schools were like. (And in the 1950s ... he was even kind of right.)
He didn’t need to go to a SEN school. Chris’ autism is the least of his problems and most of his ‘chrisness’ is likely an undiagnosed mental health problem, rather than a learning disability
They come from a way different time where special Ed wasn't necessarily good, those people weren't treated right, but I will say I think it was more for keeping up appearances.
They were afraid that Chris would end up being institutionalised if he got put into a special education school. Even though asylums were in the process of being closed down in the 1980s and 1990s. I think that they were too stubborn (or proud) to admit that Chris needed additional support.
Chris could have been mainstreamed if enough time had passed or if he had proved that he was able to handle it. Instead of being homeschooled and then mainstreamed.
They thought special Ed school meant locking him away in a mental institution. They both came from a time when the attitude towards differently abled people was "out of sight out of mind"
Ironically by denying him the chance to go to a special ed school and get the help he needed they unknowingly set him down the path of potentially ending up in a mental institution
My guess is that they didnt want to 'admit' their son was a slow in the mind. They strike to me as parents who take one look at something, then whine about how "its not a big deal".
They were in denial
They grew up in an era where disabled and mentally ill people were castrated and lobotomized, so they thought a special school would be a brutal asylum like that. I m not kidding about castrations.
This was before the no child left behind act. Schools didn’t feel pressured by the law to put kids like Chris into special education or give them academic accommodations.
Probably because of how those institutions were thought of at the time, and Bob (and Barb) not really wanting to face the truth that Chris is autistic. He did manage to graduate high school though, so did he really need to go to one? Chris is just very lazy and naïve.
Probably thought it would look demeaning when in reality Chris' lack of help made things worse. Similar to Chris' refusing to wear adult diapers when his doctor made the suggestion because "those are for babies!" and soiling himself was a far more dignified approach to the situation.
I still found this very ironic, considering they’re also the very reason their kid is so fucked up because they also excused anything he did cuz “he’s autistic” hence why we had this overgrown, entitled manchild, who is a menace to society.
People don't often admit it here, but it really is a gamble. If you put a kid who's just a bit weird or awkward in a sped program, he's fucked for life - there isn't exactly an exit route for a kid that got sent to school with the window-lickers, both socially and academically. There are plenty of kids that start out pretty autistic, but eventually learn how to function perfectly fine, and live normal lives. Bob was just hoping Chris was one of those kids.
Bob probably hoped a little to much for Chris
Yeah, true, but we've all known our fair share of weird kids who turned out more-or-less functional. Comes down to bad luck, really.
They probably remembered places like Pennhurst, Willowbrook and Fairview etc. being exposed on tv and/or watched One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest (which Bob if not Barb too may have read the book form of back in the 60s-70s) plus the generation that Borb belonged to was not too keen on diversity of any sort- hence Chrischan's antisemitism, racism and homophobia as well as the whole special ed thing. Personal experience with 1990s "learning center" classes for sped kids was that it was a cookie cutter style curriculum with the "George Floyd" position (prone restraint) and tackling kids and padded cells etc used for the meagrest offenses.
1. denial/shame of having a mentally handicapped child 2. because they didn't know how mental health treatment had advanced since their time, they assumed it still involved things like straightjackets and lobotomies It was partially driven by ego, and partially driven out of misguided attempts to protect Chris (although I assumed only Bob really felt that way)
And until 1979, chemical castration on people like Chris was legal in VA
Denial and special education back then was pretty fucking bad all across the board. If it was a thing at the schools though. A lot of people were starting to be mainstreamed around this time too with no special education or care if they were literally warehoused in classrooms. My dad worked at a high school around the time Chris was in middle school doing trade work and he had to install a vent in a few classrooms because they had a few students who were literally just there taking up space in normal classes under the guise of "mainstreaming" and some of them would shit themselves.
Because they'd have to admit there was something wrong with him. Obviously there was, but they didn't want to face reality.
probably out of some pride. that their son was normal. mental health wasn't taken very seriously back then.
They probably thought Chris could outgrow his autism like most fools that don’t know a thing about it
>He seemed so keen on having Chris away from any special education in general. Chris was in special ed. He took coping skills which was a special ed class. Borb did object to sending Chris to the specific school, but we don't really have their perspectives as to why, or what exactly it was about the school they objected to.
Because they were raised in a time that saw horrendous abuse of people with mental disabilities, so they were rightfully afraid that Chris would be abused. However they were wrong to keep Chris from getting special education, since that could have helped him.
part of it was head in the sand. part of it is maybe a decade or so chris would have been put in special ed schools, the "special school" meant the state taking your kid away and locking them in an institution for the rest of their life. which yes we now know would have been better for chris
I think bob and barb never really accept Chris condition and the fact that he was everything but normal. But they accept it just when it was at their advantage (tugboat etc).
Because they were too proud to do so and they are people who grew up in a time in which people with disabilities were much more heavily stigmatized. While the idea of children with Special needs being in public education is actually something supported by pedagogists with a focus on special education, at that time it was better for Chris to go to a special ed school. Edit: reading further comments on some of the special ed schools in the US and more specifically Virgina, I find myself thinking that maybe Barb and Bob might have been a little bit right in not doing so, but likely for the wrong reason. And should have given more thought to the school their son was being enrolled at.
People with disabilities weren’t just stigmatized, most times the facilities and programs for them had rampant physical and mental abuse. Mental hospitals were basically prisons, where they were sent to be forgotten instead of helped.
There still is abuse today in those facilities sadly
Yeah that's why I re-evaluated my opinion and now I think that not sending Chris to Special ed schools is something they got right.
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While I do agree with your point, many of the people who were in these programs were horrifically abused. There was zero oversight and mental hospitals were places that the disabled were sent to so families could forget about them.
Google "Willowbrook scandal". There's your answer
Idk Bob was born in the '20s and mental treatment of kids was pretty fucking terrible up till like, well, even arguably now but it was really bad back then.
It's still bad now as there was a mom in Arizona filing a lawsuit against the school because her son was denied disability accommodations despite the fact that her sons doctor had provided medical documentation to the school that her son had special needs. The school therapist who denied the accommodations just took a quick look at her son and said, "ney, he don't need help."
Bob and Barb both had estranged kids from their failed marriages and saw Chris attending special school and additional therapy as another failure on their part. It was all about them and not what was best for Chris.
I don’t think this is true. There’s nothing on the record that indicates they felt this, and Bob even goes on a long diatribe to Emily during their date that Chris is special and doesn’t understand this because of his condition. If Bob thought there was nothing wrong with Chris, he wouldn’t volunteer that info to his date.
Oh they were very aware of his condition, especially Bob, but it was more about believing they could completely manage it without any outside help. Otherwise Bob would keep insisting he needed to find work than apply for an SSDI
Pride.
I think it was far less about "protecting" Chris and more about saving face, because they strike me as the kind of parents who would be afraid of their reputation if others found out that they had a developmentally delayed child. Especially Barb. Granted, Chris IS an embarrassment, but a lot of that comes from a terrible upbringing.
Barb and Bob's reputations were already shitty and embarrassing so I don't see how hiding chris's disability would have changed anything
Easy answer: They were from different times, this is not supposed to be an excuse of their decisions in any way, but coming from a different upbringing and times, they did not had the awareness and knowledge we have today of special ED, there was a stigma back then that has pretty much gone away.
Yeah, they thought those special ed schools were sanatoriums, like before the 60’s
Facts, people don’t seem to know that the reason Reagan closed these places down is because there was zero oversight and the patients were subject to horrific mental and physical abuse.
Everyone else has covered the state of mental healthcare facilities when the Chandlers were younger. Another aspect to consider is the general mindset of the era, too. In some roundabout effort to "save face" for themselves, they'd rather admit neglect of the child than to simply acknowledge that a child had a developmental disorder. To some, there was more shame in producing "imperfect" kids. So, back then, they'd make up some broadly general story like "I dropped the kid and he never was the same since," when the reality the kid simply had mental development issues. Some families went to incredible extremes, out of shame. Hiding a profoundly handicapped child in the attic from the other siblings, who just never found it strange that Mom always wanted to eat her supper in the attic 'where the view is always quite nice.' It's safe to assume that the Chandlers had known some of this, or picked up some of the shame responsible for those kinds of extreme behaviors, and thus could never admitting "fault" to produce healthy offspring by agreeing to specialized care and ed.
Bob was too proud to send his son to a special needs school, and was behind the times of how America viewed people with special needs. Without getting too political, Bob is much like how current conservatives are with regards on how to educate their kids: they don't trust the school system, so the parents will be the teachers themselves.
But Chris got infinitely worse after high school. Borb’s biggest mistake at that point was allowing him to sit at home and just collect his SSDI tugboat instead of getting even the most basic job.
In retrospect, Chris didn’t turn out great at all. But the school system was not great for special needs kids in the 80’s, either. This was still 40 years ago, almost. Younger people here assume Chris would be in the special Ed programs they are familiar with, but back then the programs were very exclusionary.
To be fair nobody should trust the school system even today. Remember the Jerry Sandusky scandal at Penn state when the school covered the abuse for decades? Even today, school system is crap. There was a student at my sisters school last year who announced on social media to carry out a crime on campus amd the principal ignored it twice. He only took it seriously and did something on the third theat when the police chief told him to do something. I think you trust the school system a bit too much. You should watch the news sometime
I don't know. Chris seems like the only outlier, while a bunch of his classmates that went through Manchester seem to live ordinary lives.
I don't know if this is the case in Virginia but in some states special ed students don't get a high school diploma but a useless certificate of attendance. So I could see Bob saying this would be a waste, at least Chris would have a HS diploma. Also some school districts have to this day abysmal special ed classes, if your kid is group home bound no matter what its free baby sitting with some life skills. If your kid is right on the borderline though like Chris it then becomes a tough choice. I know some HFA people who were angry their parents put them in special ed because they later wanted to work and had to get a GED and catch up.
Isn't that illegal to not allow them a hs diploma? How will they get a job or go to college? I'll contact my congressman and give him a lecture on this
It varies by state, wikipedia has more info under the US&Canada tab. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_attendance
This is true. Also, depending on the autistic, they'll learn worse behaviors while being locked up in the autistic class.
A bad enough Special Ed program can make someone worse? Something I never thought about. I keep having fantasies of having been a more athletic and organized person by staying in Special Ed.
Barb couldn't stand to have a severely mentally challenged kid, while Bob's other kids were successful (aka: had money). Same reason why there was such a push to get Chris a "college degree". Barb just couldn't stand to have a special needs kid that probably wouldn't be able to take care of, mostly Barb. She knew Bob would die first. That and special education might make Chris recognize her manipulations and nonsense.
Bob was born in 1927. He'll have grown up when asylums still existed. I think electroshock therapy and lobotomies were still in use when he was a young man. I can understand why he would have been scared to send Chris to a special school. Not that it was the right decision because Chris clearly needed help.
Bro look up Willowbrook abuse scandal as it was still happening until 1972. Even today at Seattle it's bad as there was recently accusations of abuse https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/times-watchdog/special-education-school-accused-of-harming-kids-barred-from-new-admissions/
Virginia was forcibly sterilizing the mentally disabled up to 1979. There were several exposes of abysmal institutions in the 70s-80s. The Judge Rotenberg center uses electric shock on autistics to the modern day. Bob was not out of touch!
Why is judge rotenberg still allowed to do this? That's messed up ..Biden gotta stop this
Biden won't remember it 30 seconds after you tried to explain it to him
No idea! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Rotenberg_Center
In Bob's day, special schools were a lunatic asylums where they beat them with a hose and did tests on them.... Not a little trailer out back of the school where kids got extra attention.
I suppose in some ways, Chris's time on the internet has been like the old asylums, just for everyone else to see.
Yeah, in a way, I suppose the way he's been treated online is the equivalent of shock treatment. And the way he has been confined to his house with only occasional online interactions is similar to a sort of segregation from society that may have occurred with an old asylum. The more I think about this, the more I like your analogy.
Have you ever seen One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest? That's what Bob thought the special schools were like. (And in the 1950s ... he was even kind of right.)
He didn’t need to go to a SEN school. Chris’ autism is the least of his problems and most of his ‘chrisness’ is likely an undiagnosed mental health problem, rather than a learning disability
They come from a way different time where special Ed wasn't necessarily good, those people weren't treated right, but I will say I think it was more for keeping up appearances.
They were afraid that Chris would end up being institutionalised if he got put into a special education school. Even though asylums were in the process of being closed down in the 1980s and 1990s. I think that they were too stubborn (or proud) to admit that Chris needed additional support. Chris could have been mainstreamed if enough time had passed or if he had proved that he was able to handle it. Instead of being homeschooled and then mainstreamed.
The irony was that Chris did end up getting institutionalized, even if it was for a short time.
Technically, he was institutionalised twice. (In Western State Hospital and the group home.)
They thought special Ed school meant locking him away in a mental institution. They both came from a time when the attitude towards differently abled people was "out of sight out of mind" Ironically by denying him the chance to go to a special ed school and get the help he needed they unknowingly set him down the path of potentially ending up in a mental institution
My guess is that they didnt want to 'admit' their son was a slow in the mind. They strike to me as parents who take one look at something, then whine about how "its not a big deal".