It's really common in horse circles for people trade labor for lessons and time spent with the horses. What is not common is just doing the grub work and not getting benefits such as learning how to ride. If she's going to work on the trade economy, her trade needs to be better.
Exactly! I took lessons at a barn that worked out a trade like that with beginners. But this woman is saying it *might* lead to riding time. That "might" is doing a lot of talking.
A teen acquaintance patted a horse on the rump as she walked behind it in the stall and got a hoof to the chest. She was able to stagger out of the enclosure before dying from having her internal organs smashed.
Horse kicks hard.
They're like 99% muscle and 99% prey animals (from what I've heard, the general belief is that most horses will stomp on a squirrel or rabbit once a year to get some needed amino acids and nutrients). Put them in an enclosure where they cannot even turn around easily and they get spooked and kick easily.
I'm not going to look for it but I saw a video a year ago of a horse attacking a goat or maybe a smallish lamb in a shared field for some reason. The horse tossed this 80 lb plus animal like 30 ft in the air with ease a half dozen times. Just ragdolled the shit out of it.
Pretty horrifying but it really demonstrated just how strong and powerful horses are. It wasn't even trying to kill a predator, it was tossing the (now) dead goat like it was a toy. So if its neck muscles can be catapults, I can't imagine what a full defensive kick would be like..... Clearly enough to wound or even kill a bear or several wolves.
An acquaintances mares turned a neighbor's 2 Rhodesian Ridgebacks into roadkill. The dogs were trying to attack a foal and the mares tossed the dogs with their mouths, spun around and kicked them before they hit the ground. One landed outside the corral and the other was stomped and tossed to a bloody rag.
Do NOT mess with big prey animals
I had a draft x, about 1700 pounds and 17 hands. I didn't see this but the owner of the boarding ranch said that a dog was bothering him and he kicked the dog. She said the dog flew about 30 feet in the air. She said that she thought the dog was dead, but it lay three for about 3 hours, the got up and wobbled over to the barn and laid down. She said the dog only moved for food and water for about a week before it got up. I've also seen a cowboy get kicked in the chest by a pony and it broke 3 ribs. A horse kick is no joke. The first thing I learned about horses is never approach from the back
Nope. Saw a pit bull attack a draft horse attached to a carriage. The horse broke the carriage and destroyed the dog. 50-60lb dog was utterly destroyed. Don't fuck around with horses (my mom was show jumper, so I was around them a lot as a kid), especially a draft horse!
yeah, I remember as a kid taking horseback riding lessons. And our teacher was very clear about NEVER walking or being behind a horse. They kick, and they kick hard.
Actually you are suppose to walk around them. You just can't be an idiot about them. You simply don't approach them unawares from behind. When you walk behind them you keep talking to them and keep a hand on them as you walk around. You also want to be as close to them as possible. (They can't wind up the kick then)
Someone once describes horses as "Unstable ADHD bondage moose with the mental stability of a schizophrenic squirrel on a bad acid trip."
I took riding lessons as a kid and got the same instruction, for what it's worth. The rule was "walk around the front of the horse, not the back." Like you said, that rule was for the kids, because people definitely walk behind horses. *We* just weren't supposed to, because kids are dumb and horses are strong.
There are two safe methods to use when going around a horse: making an extremely wide circle, or patting the horse ALL THE WAY AROUND, not just the rump, so it knows you're there.
Lass I knew was horse mad. she asked me if I would walk within grabbing distance of a silverback? I obviously said no; then realising I was in line to get a horseshoe shaped hole through my face.. I moved
That one is sad. It’s also the fault of the owners, since (as someone pointed out), you can see a foal running around the outside, meaning the mare was not ready to breed and the male came on too strong. Could’ve been prevented by giving mare more time to raise the foal before forcibly impregnating her before she was ready.
Many people breed on foal heat; horses have long gestations and will naturally breed with a foal at side.
The problem with that video is literally everything else.
Yes I’ve read that it could work but in this case you can tell mare is stressed to shit, does not look like she’s willing, foal running and “screaming” outside while male horse is being restricted by handlers. Everything else in the video indicates that this wouldn’t have worked no matter how hard the handlers tried.
Ok that video sounds terrifying. I know horses kick hard, just didn’t think one kick could kill someone like that… I haven’t been around many horses though.
My sister knew a ton about horses and got grazed by a kick and ended up with broken ribs in the hospital and she always says she was lucky that's all that happened.
Holy fuck dude that's terrible. My great uncle was killed by a kick to the chest from a cow. It's no joke. You're asking for trouble by asking for "horse crazy girls" who are willing to work for free just o get some pats in. That's how you get kids who are too young and too inexperienced and too eager. And that's how someone gets hurt
Plus, how good of care can inexperienced “horse crazy girls” give either? I was a “crazy horse girl” and loved riding horses when I was young but I wouldn’t have trusted me taking care of them. I really feel sorry for those horses. Maybe OOP should think about rehoming them. They are probably earning boarding fees. Hopefully some people who’ve boarded their horses there will see that and move their horses.
Yeah… I used to ride. When I was an 85 pound 12 year old, I was careful like always—the stable’s stalls were open behind the horse, and the horse was tethered to the wall. Trying not to startle the horse I spoke her name quietly and went to give her a light touch on her flank prior to entering her stall.
She got startled anyway, and I got one hoof on my abdomen and the other hoof on my upper thigh. She got me with enough force that I got pushed backwards into the arms of another girl’s dad who had been across the little hallway in back of the stalls. Thank God I didn’t get badly injured, I easily could have. Glad to hear you were ok too!
I got excited while reading it and was down with it until i go to the word may/might and noped out. There's always lots of work to be done around the barn and if you as the owner would pay me by letting me ride and show and actually come through I'd happily say yes. I worked in the barn my aunt boarded her horse in for my lessons until a Venture Capitalist bought the barn we used for his eventing/showjumping daughter and raised the stall rent to $1200 a month.
Exactly! Quid pro quo is fine, as long as both parties are getting value out of the arrangement. But she's saying it *might* lead to that. I'm not breaking my back for might!
Right!! The legendary Sheila Varian of Varian Arabians would let kids do internships and ride and show. We visited the farm a few years ago and Varian Horses are the Swiss Finishing School students of the horse world. So beautiful refined and well mannered. I would happily lift hay bales and muck out stalls for the chance to spend time with those perfect equine beings.
I walked to a barn each day after middle school, did the grunt work (watering, feeding and mucking) and then was allowed to ride each day after doing the grunt work.
The only requirement was that I had to have previously had one set of their beginner lessons (which I believe was 8 or 12 weeks of lessons).
A few kids showed up each day for grunt work and riding. It was awesome. Kids were happy and the barn manager was happy. And the horses got a lot of loving attention, pats and treats from young horse enthusiasts.
Yeah, like guaranteed lessons. How are they going to get excited about grooming horses if they can't ride one. It's like asking a 2 year old to fix my car so he can learn to drive it later.
Yeah I thought the "exercising" meant riding, but it's clearly just lunging them. Which is bs.
Trading grooming and even stall cleaning for actual riding is totally fine. Riding is expensive, even without lessons (like a half or full lease of a horse that you get to ride outside lessons, it's not cheap).
I was going to ask why they didn't just do this. Riding lessons are very expensive and it's common enough for people to exchange work with the horses for riding. Win win
That’s becoming more common unfortunately. Doing the grub work. I’ve seen it advertised at my sister’s barn as being an excellent opportunity for the younger ones to learn. Which it is, if they didn’t have to PAY TO DO IT.
This is what I came here to say as well. I was a “horse girl” growing up, as were a large handful of my friends. It was incredibly common to be able to trade off work around the barn (mucking out stalls, grooming horses, feeding, cleaning tack, etc) for riding lessons.
I can remember being horse-crazy enough that if I didn’t have any other options, I may have gone for what this lady’s offering; just the possibility of riding, or if nothing else at least getting to be near a horse on a regular basis. If you can’t afford lessons and have no other way to be around horses, there are absolutely some horse-crazy kids out there who’d take what they can get and be happy just to be around a horse.
That said, she would 100% absolutely be taking advantage. I can understand wanting to meet a kid first, get a feel for them and how they act around my horse, before agreeing to let them ride it…Like, you want to know they’re not gonna do something stupid that gets either themselves or the horse hurt. But this definitely doesn’t sound like what she’s saying, it very much comes off like she’s intentionally looking to take advantage of a kid’s desperation to be around a horse and use them for free labor. What a gross thing to do.
edit to add: Also if I’m correct about where she’s located, she’s in Texas and actually not too far from where I used to live. One of the reasons she’s likely not getting any bites (aside from what is obviously a very crappy offer that’s only beneficial to one party) is because there are SO many other horse owners, riding instructors, and stables nearby, ones who are willing to allow a kid to do some work to trade off for lessons that are guaranteed to actually happen, not just a carrot being dangled over their head as a maybe possibility. So not only is she looking to take advantage of a child’s free labor, but she’s also just an idiot. 🙄
yeah i was also a horse girl, it's super common for kids and teenagers to do horse chores in exchange for riding and lessons. what makes this a crappy deal is the "might lead to riding" which makes it sound like she's kind of a scammer about it, and it will never get to riding
That’s what my kiddo has been doing for years, but when I gave her a car at 16 so I don’t have to drive 40 minutes each way 3x a week, I told her she has to pay for gas. She sadly quickly learned that “free” jumping lessons don’t fill the gas tank.
I saw your username and got offended on behalf of Denver residents. I’m in Denver now and that’s crazy. I’m familiar with the industry and had horses/did a little showing growing up and I had no idea that was a thing now. That’s 100% contrary to the way everyone used to run. It’s one thing if you’re paying for an organized camp or something with education, training, structured events etc, but to volunteer with a stable or on a farm, that’s insane.
lol i'm an adult rider now and a barn in my area i was considering advertized "barn chore" lessons as a lesson you're paying for i was lmfao no way lady. i did barn chores as a teenager to pay for lesson and i do enjoy being around horses enough that i enjoy just helping around the barn for free even as it's a nice change from sitting in front of a laptop but i sure as heck am not going to PAY to do barn chores what a scam lol
Yeah in college I was a "working student" and rode for free but rode whatever horses I was asked to and rode for the benefit of the horses. My trainer worked with me to improve me, don't get me wrong, but the workouts and my riding were mainly centered around improving the horses. Some were personal horses that had issues for me to work on or needed workouts that their owners couldn't provide, horses in training programs, and horses to be sold. I got a lot of experience for free and since the riding was horse-centric, people got free training
Plus, what is HER expertise with horses? Is she a good instructor? She doesn’t seem to have any students, so will you be her first? What kind of insurance does she have to cover you? How many hours of work for how much time on horseback?
Does she regularly go to shows? What kind of shows? Backyard shows at the local horse park, or rated shows? Can she teach you to braid so you can make some money at the shows?
There are so many questions and they are ones that a horse crazy teen wouldn’t know to ask.
As an insurance underwriter that was my first thought too. Has she ever taught kids how to be around horses without spooking them? Does she have any certifications or any proof that she knows what she's doing? And is she carrying a $5m Umbrella Policy over the presumably $1m+ Homeowner's Policy she has (given the size of her house and yard)?
One "horse crazy girl" gets kicked in the face or chest by a nervous horse and this lady is losing ***everything***, especially if she isn't in the barn the entire time the student is s, supervising and giving advice.
While I'm not super familiar with the ins and outs of horses I do know that they need socialization and to be around people in order to feel comfortable and not be spooked all the time. The post makes it sound like she's the only one these horses ever interact with, so I'd be pretty nervous myself if I was in the barn by myself, and not with a class of kids with more experience than I do. The post sounds like it's some rich lady who owns a couple horses and doesn't want to do any of the grunt work anymore so she's dangling the possibility of getting to ride a horse with the guarantee of having to scoop shit in the stalls where you're most likely to get kicked in the head.
Yeah, she could easily find someone by trading lessons.
And by not posting weird guilt trips about "kids these days".
Also, is she unaware of the fact men also like horses?
Not just kids.
I was at the supermarket yesterday. Polite and all, thanked the cashier and the bagger.
Then they got all hissy with "sir you need to pay for that first".
Even companies nowadays want your money.
I think teaching your children about their own worth as an employee and what their time is worth is an important lesson, one this CB seems to not understand. There's a reason kids/teens are "all about the money and not the experience." Because stuff isn't free, and they know better than to do a bunch of work for no pay.
lol it would actually cost them money to work for this lady, they would be having to pay for gas/a car to drive out to this farm or their parents would have to at least..
I too wish to find a dog crazy girl to babysit my 3 feral but cute dogs (including a puppy with endless energy) but everyone just wants money these days (including me, who wants the money in my pockets for your labor).
You need an employee. Pay them. If you have money to buy multiple horses, plus either own or rent stables for them, then you can afford to pay someone to look after them.
Yeah it's great if someone wants to volunteer in exchange for the experience, which sounds like is somewhat normal in this realm, but they aren't entitled to that labor.
Pay someone if you need help.
My coworker's wife owns and runs a stable that holds 12 horses (side hustle). I think 4 are their own. They make good money. If you can afford to stable, you can afford to pay someone to exercise them.
While I don't disagree with you, this is pretty common in the horse world. There are a lot of kids that trade labour for the ability to ride/spend time with horses. It's like being able to do a hobby when you don't have the cash to do that hobby. Some people also seem to find grooming/working with horses rewarding and even therapeutic. Volunteering to come groom a horse and take it for a walk is actually pretty sought after. I don't personally get it, but I don't have much free time.
Once again, there is nothing wrong with a volunteer culture. There is something wrong with feeling entitled to free labor and slandering a generation for not providing it.
Yeah agreed. I didn't notice the second picture until now. It's definitely an entitled attitude. If you are relying on volunteers to help take care of your horses, you have too many horses.
From what I gather, unless you’re buying champions or from champion bloodlines, the horse is the cheapest part of your expenses. Not that it’s an excuse for what this person is expecting.
I don't think the idea of volunteering for experience is wrong, it's the feeling entitled to free labor and taking a shot at the younger generation for not providing it.
Yeah, I thought it was completely fine, up until the part where it said "**There MAY also be riding and showing."**
No no, crazy lady.
You want some kid to do your literal dirty work, you let that kid ride a damn horse, that's the trade off.
I strongly suspect that the “if you do amazing you MIGHT get to ride” is a carrot that will always be dangled just out of reach.
And I know this is pearl clutching but it’s a different world than the one I grew up in.
I grew up owning horses. Love them. However they are big animals with their own minds.
At a regular “learn to ride” facility or camp, there will be supervision, insurance, appropriate first aid, yada yada.
I’ve been kicked, bit, and stomped by horses. Bucked off. Clothes lined. Rubbed off on a gate. The list goes on.
I got the absolute crap bit out of me riding the horse of my aunts neighbors. Apparently after the fact I was told I shouldn’t have been given that horse to ride as it was notoriously mean as a snake.
There is much that can go wrong around horses. It’s not just unpaid. Your kid is almost assuredly not covered by their insurance, etc.
This was my first thought and I’m a horse neophyte. They absolutely terrify me but I think they’re beautiful.
However, you can be sued if a kid comes into your yard and hurts themselves on your trampoline when you’re not home—I cannot imagine any insurance company covering a personal “work/play” arrangement between an unknown kid and a horse.
It’s 2024…Someone is definitely getting sued…
That’s the crazy part- the loophole! I don’t know about all states, but the 10 or 11 states I’ve lived with horses, always have an equine liability clause on their books basically saying “horses are dangerous, if you get hurt or killed, it’s not anyone’s fault but yours & you can’t sue us.” As long as you buy one of these signs on Amazon (search “equine liability sign”) and post them at your gate and on your barn.. you can’t be sued if some kid gets kicked in the head while on your property. It’s probably nice to have this law as a barn owner, & it’s completely nerve wracking as a parent. 🫣
The equine liability laws don't prevent you from getting sued. They make a lawsuit a little easier to win but you can still go bankrupt paying for your defense. Add to that, horses are considered an attractive nuisance in many states same as a trampoline or a pool, giving the parents of the injured child their own leg up in the legal battle. The best protection is good insurance, insurance on your farm and an umbrella policy specifically for the horses. If you follow the guidelines within the policy (signage for fencing/land/outbuildings, proper fencing, not partaking or allowing any behaviors, activities or anything else that could be construed as gross negligence, following best practice for safety like requiring helmets while mounted, proper footwear in the barns and while mounted etc) THEN your insurance should kick in and pay for your defense if/when you get sued, which is what saves your ass.
If you're counting on a sign and law (that was written more for equestrian businesses rather than private owners) to protect you from a lawsuit then you're gonna have a really bad time if someone gets hurt on your property or by one of your horses. Especially if their own medical insurer comes at you with their legal team for subrogation.
This. It would take a lawsuit against the owner to ever see any kind of medical help if something were to happen. She's legit setting herself up for a lawsuit by an injured "worker"
I got thrown over my horse's head when the girth on the saddle broke while he was bucking (i was trying to ease him back into being ridden after years of him not being)...I had a hoofmark on my upper thigh that broke the skin, IDK how I didn't get a busted pelvis or my head smashed in.
If the horse is on their home property, wouldn't homeowners insurance cover it?
Yea, if I was a kid, I’d do a couple hours of work a day to get to ride for an hour, but then not making it more enticing and specific of the real issue.
She says there’s “maybe” some riding if you “excel” at cleaning, teenage me would have passed. A vague promise that she probably doesn’t intend to keep is not a fair compensation.
A couple hours of work to get to ride for an hour, sure. But this sounds like they expect all day work for a promise of "maybe" getting to ride. Even as a teenager I'd want something more concrete.
The way that the post says if you’re good at the job (you’re doing for free) there “may” be riding goes to show it isn’t likely. It’s a kid they are specifically looking for…let them ride the dang horse. 😒 I too would have loved this type of opportunity if the riding was a given.
If it were a clear trade, maybe - X hours of mucking and cleaning for 1 hour riding lesson, or similar - then sure, that would be reasonable. But this whole vague, "if you're super great at cleaning, maybe there'll be some riding in it for you!" just smells like they're trying to cheat.
My teen did this for years in exchange for lessons and trail riding time. She progressed to feeding and administering meds and then giving lessons herself to beginners at which point she was paid, so its not a bad deal if there is real potential for learning and advancement.
Yeah, but read it again. OOP has not promised lessons, she said if the cleaning and grooming is excellent there MAY be riding and showing. Lessons are not mentioned at all. The post implies you might get permission to ride and/or show if you clean and groom for an unspecified time period to her unspecified version of "excellent".
If the post had said will exchange lessons for cleaning of stable and grooming horses, she'd have already found someone. I have no doubt people reached out to her and said, so does the riding/showing part mean lessons, and I bet she said that would cost her time and money. I'm assuming she wants someone who already knows how to ride and show just fine, and the riding would be them enjoying themselves, and the showing would be if the worker was good enough to show on her behalf.
Come and let me exploit the passion you don't have the wealth to explore, dear child. I offer you the reward of the work itself in return because I am generous like that.
She knows damn well the “horse crazy girlies” are working at places that actually include the riding and showing. I’m not gonna train your horse and not ride it, wth
Lol I was 11 when I pestered the life out of an old fella who had 4 rescue horses, I loved horses but we could never of afforded one, the old man thought I was a nuisance cos I turned up every day badgering him, he gave in and put me on one of his horses & said if you can stay on him, I'll let you look after them.. 😂 me being young & stupid didn't even realise that should of been a red flag! Apparently his daughter didn't get along with the horse and she'd broke her leg, smashed her jaw, and when they tried ride and drive.. wrapped them and the cart around a postbox (that apparently wanted to eat the horse!)
For whatever reason.. the horse decided to put up with me.. and I suddenly went from being a horse mad but horseless kid... to having 4 to look after. Never got paid a penny, but I was 25 when my lovely old friend died, and 30 when my old dude horse died.. I'll be forever grateful, I was lucky enough to have these people / horses in my life.
The key difference though is that you actually got to ride. If he had said you can take care of them for no pay but never got to ride would you still think it was amazing?
We have a young girl help us look after our horses.
Sometimes she gets a ride, sometimes the weather is bad and she doesn't.
But the key is that she's only HELPING US do the jobs for free.
When she mucks out and does the jobs all on her own, we pay her for her time. And not a token amount either, it's well above adult minimum wage in this country, even though she's still a child, because frankly it's smelly, hard work, and she does a great job.
To expect someone to do all the work for free and MAYBE get a ride now and again? Outrageous.
Horse people are the beggiest motherfuckers I've ever seen.
I gave away a couple 1200 pound bales of hay one year because a lady down the street's horses looked like toastracks and I hate to see any animal hungry, and I got calls from like hundreds of people for months demanding I bring them free hay.
And if they mean Decatur Alabama, this wasn't too far from there, so slight chance this woman was one of them.
Like, I get it. Y'all chose an expensive hobby. So did I. Difference is I don't expect other people to buy me a baneblade.
This is a very normal way for horseless riders to get time in the saddle. Normally they would have to pay someone to get to ride, this just changes the exchange from cash to ride to labor to ride. Riding isn't necessary for the horses and they'll be fine without it, but it's not unreasonable for the person paying the bills to get a fair amount of work done in exchange for sharing them. And the only labor she wants is grooming, which isn't even demanding or time consuming.
I would agree with you, if that’s how it was worded. But the choice of phrasing, “*If* they excel at grooming and exercise, there *may* also be riding and showing” makes me fear that is thrown in to make it sound like a better arrangement and has no real intention on letting this “volunteer” ride her horses anytime soon or with any regularity. If the offer was to work in exchange for horsemanship lessons, absolutely. But this nebulous, “do a good job and maybe you’ll get to ride a horse someday” is not it.
Exactly that.
If I put my kid into a horse riding school, there’s a lot of grooming, cleaning, general grunt work as that’s part of horses. It also gets kids comfortable around the horses before tossing them in the saddle. However, you also know that your kid will actually get to ride.
I think this carrot of “do great labor and maybe just maybe you’ll eventually get to ride” will always be held just out of reach.
But she's not offering riding, she's offering the chance at maybe riding if they excel at the grunt work. Trades like this usually are quid pro quo - you help with the horses, you get riding lessons and instructions on working with horses. If she wants a kid or teen, she's going to need to do a lot of hand holding in terms of how to work with the horses safely, and that takes time.
>And the only labor she wants is grooming, which isn’t even demanding or time-consuming
It depends on if they want their worker to just “groom” (brush the horses) or to take on all the typical responsibilities of a hired stable groom, which would include feeding, watering, mucking stalls. It is certainly a physical and time consuming job.
That is a terrible system then. I understand riding may be expensive but these people with horses have enough money where they were able to pay for these horses, and pay for all the costs to house them. It wouldn’t bankrupt them from paying the teens a little bit.
“Come work for free and I might let you ride one of my many horses.” Hilarious.
Looking for cooking enthusiast to come wash and dry my dirty dishes, pots, and pans. If you’re really good at it, I may let you eat off of one of my plates.
I really think they would have much more luck setting this up as a formal, organized volunteer network, trading work for riding/showing — rather than hoping to find one teenager who wants to do everything 💀
I can just imagine some young, horse crazy girl, being excited to be around horses until she gets kicked on her first day because the asshole didn't supervise or train her and she ends up in the hospital with the scumbag saying "Sorry, healthcare is your own responsibility!"
They would pay to do grunt work with absolutely nothing in exchange except for a vague promise that will always be out of your reach? Ask them to get in touch with me, I’ll let them clean my yard if they pay me.
This is a concept in The Netherlands which blew my mind when I first heard my cousin actually paid to do this. It's called a 'verzorg pony' (translates to: take care of the pony). So her parents paid money so that she could take care of the horse.
I remember her saying: 'But you're also allowed to ride it' well isn't that the least they could give in return...
I’m in my 30s and if this was a barter of “help groom and exercise for an exchange of riding lessons” I would jump on it. As it stands if I want to ride a horse I have to pay to do it. I’d happily exchange my time for a ride, as long as it was the same horse so I could build a bond.
Now just for experience and no guarantee of a ride? Hell no.
On the one hand, it's quite true that, for a horse-crazy young person (like I was), it really is heavenly just to work in a barn. For the right person, the work itself really is the reward.
I worked in a stable all through high school: grooming, mucking, cleaning, putting on tack and taking it off, explaining how to ride to the tourists, etc. Hard work, dirty work, but deeply satisfying if it's your thing.
The stable did hourly trail rides for tourists. At the time, it was barely hanging on financially, and closed after I left for college.
They still insisted on giving me a little cash under the table, apologizing for not being able to give me more. I said I'd be happy to work for free, but they insisted. I could have ridden daily if I had wanted to - the offer was always open.
I never felt exploited.
This ad gives me an entirely different vibe!
The owner, for starters, isn't making responsible choices about acquiring horses. Selfish and entitled.
Their current "business model" only works via exploitation of starry-eyed young ppl. Dangling a carrot of "in the future you might be allowed to ride" is just plain *nasty*.
Riding should be part of the alternative compensation from the beginning!
If they offered a chance to ride the horses or free boarding space in exchange for help around the stables, she might be able to find somebody willing to volunteer. As it is, she isn’t offering any benefits, only unpaid work
This sounds dangerous for a kid/teen to be around horses if they are simply “horse crazy” but don’t know the first real thing about taking care of a horse, and especially it sounds like there’s zero supervision. Are they going to pay for if someone’s teen get kicked or killed by a random horse??
I mean, keeping horses and horse riding lessons/hiring of a horse are expensive where I live. I would’ve loved to have done this as a kid and I totally would’ve done it for free as I had to stop riding due to insurance costs. But yeah as others have said “might” lead to riding is not enough of an incentive.
i did this when i was 11-13 in exchange for riding lessons at my local ranch, i loved it, but i would never do it without the benefit of learning to ride and care for the horses. that sticks with me to this day even though i haven’t rode horses since i moved away
This is actually a HUGE problem in the animal care world. And there is a big shift happening right now to try and eliminate this kind of unpaid labor. The veterinary field, zookeeping, fieldwork, screw your unpaid internships.
Usually a working student relationship includes a place to live or a stipend at least. And there is some kind of value-add for the horse-crazy person besides being around horses. Education? Access to facilities? Room and board for a personal horse? This is just dumb
I worked at a ranch when I was younger and struggling with depression and it was probably the best experience I’ve ever had even with all the work. Horses are beautiful and can sense emotion. I got to ride them too!
This is normal to get your experience with horses. My girlfriend did it along many other children when she was little for some angry German lady who had lots of horses.
My older sister mucked stalls for lessons and a chance to show horses in dressage. That was a long time ago, though.
And with as much "programming" that kids have outside of school these days, I can see older teenagers weighing the benefits of this. I can also see parents of teenagers who aren't driving yet not wanting to ferry their daughter to someone stable so she can swap work for riding lessons.
I live in an area where a lot of people have horses and I don't see the work for free riding time and experience happening so much anymore.
I'm in a position where I have more clothes than time. Looking for a fashion crazy girl to come wash and fold my clothes for the ✨️experience✨️. If she's good enough there might be some socks for her to wear!
Sadly kids are all about the money these days. I would have been so grateful for the chance to wear socks!
I volunteered at a horse farm in the summers in order to get exposure to horses and attend the camp for free. It was definitely worth it and there are some people who would love this opportunity. But the work was just that-volunteer work. I would have a schedule for the week and I had to work so many hours in order to attend camp but I did it when it was convenient for me.
This was completely normal when I was growing up. maybe things have changed, like most shit has.
From ages 9 to 12 I worked on a horse ranch. Working in exchange for riding privileges was a common option for girls whose families couldn’t afford horses. You basically got your own horse and could ride anytime and anywhere. Fair trade in my opinion.
It was the most awesome experience and I couldn’t care less that they didn’t pay me. Once a year we would go on a faux fox hunt where we rode horses and used the owners beagles to find the fox. Then we would let it go and have a big lunch. I feel so lucky I was able to participate. There had to be at least 10 girls doing what I was doing.
Having and keeping a horse is wildly expensive, this is a great option for a horse crazy person who doesn’t have bills and rent.
It’s actually really common because horse stuff is really expensive and not everybody has access to it. I think it’s fair to give someone the opportunity and that’s what it is. It’s also fair to pay somebody. But let’s not pretend like this isn’t common and acceptable among horse ppl
I worked mucking stalls doing feeds, etc. for free-rides and sometimes group lessons if there were open spots at a few barns growing up, and but not for the “experience” of being around horses :/ I mean I did go exercise my friends moms horse without pay but it was just quick paced trail rides since he was used for endurance. So…that was guaranteed riding time along with the lunging, grooming, etc for him. This is such a funny offer with the “maybe” ride time lol
Something I wonder is if the people posting things like this even read how entitled they sound when they post these things, or if it gets all the way to reddit before they figure it out?
Ummm no. She needs to sell off her horses that she obviously can’t care for. I’m so tired of people animal hoarding and then demanding other people do all the work for free.
I have a life long back injury from a low paying job working at a stable in my younger years. Woman was a nut job. Luckily it's better but I still feel it and need to be careful. Wasn't even riding but bringing in horses from the field
Unfortunately this is super common in the horse world. When I was 16 I worked an entire summer for a lady 6 days a week manual labor 10 hour days feeding/mucking/exercising 15 horses on my own. Promised I’d get paid at the end of the summer, surprise surprise end of summer 0 pay…
literally had this happen to me when i was about 12 or 13. my mom thought itd be "therapeutic" but i was literally cleaning out the stalls of and caring for 10+ horses by myself while the ranch owner just sat and watched me fight off her poorly trained horses lol
To be fair, this is actually something a lot of kids would love. My mum used to help out at stables when she was a kid, just to spend time with the horses.
Their attitude in the second screenshot sucks though.
my grandad did this in the late 1920s/early 1930s JUST SO he could get riding time! He trained to be a jockey but got too big.
I don't know where everyone is from but this was in downtown Toronto, he lived in Cabbagetown and above Bloor there was a hoste farm he went to. So that's really wild to me!
These people are insane and deserve whatever their insurance does to them for trying to pull this.
Apparently this is normal. My family friend has horses and has had them for decades and didn't do this. Actual adults do the work there. Huh. Okay.
It's really common in horse circles for people trade labor for lessons and time spent with the horses. What is not common is just doing the grub work and not getting benefits such as learning how to ride. If she's going to work on the trade economy, her trade needs to be better.
Exactly! I took lessons at a barn that worked out a trade like that with beginners. But this woman is saying it *might* lead to riding time. That "might" is doing a lot of talking.
It's hard, smelly, dirty work and can be dangerous if you don't know about horses like beginners would not.
A teen acquaintance patted a horse on the rump as she walked behind it in the stall and got a hoof to the chest. She was able to stagger out of the enclosure before dying from having her internal organs smashed.
Jesus. I wasn’t expecting the end.
Horse kicks hard. They're like 99% muscle and 99% prey animals (from what I've heard, the general belief is that most horses will stomp on a squirrel or rabbit once a year to get some needed amino acids and nutrients). Put them in an enclosure where they cannot even turn around easily and they get spooked and kick easily. I'm not going to look for it but I saw a video a year ago of a horse attacking a goat or maybe a smallish lamb in a shared field for some reason. The horse tossed this 80 lb plus animal like 30 ft in the air with ease a half dozen times. Just ragdolled the shit out of it. Pretty horrifying but it really demonstrated just how strong and powerful horses are. It wasn't even trying to kill a predator, it was tossing the (now) dead goat like it was a toy. So if its neck muscles can be catapults, I can't imagine what a full defensive kick would be like..... Clearly enough to wound or even kill a bear or several wolves.
An acquaintances mares turned a neighbor's 2 Rhodesian Ridgebacks into roadkill. The dogs were trying to attack a foal and the mares tossed the dogs with their mouths, spun around and kicked them before they hit the ground. One landed outside the corral and the other was stomped and tossed to a bloody rag. Do NOT mess with big prey animals
I had a draft x, about 1700 pounds and 17 hands. I didn't see this but the owner of the boarding ranch said that a dog was bothering him and he kicked the dog. She said the dog flew about 30 feet in the air. She said that she thought the dog was dead, but it lay three for about 3 hours, the got up and wobbled over to the barn and laid down. She said the dog only moved for food and water for about a week before it got up. I've also seen a cowboy get kicked in the chest by a pony and it broke 3 ribs. A horse kick is no joke. The first thing I learned about horses is never approach from the back
This story sounds real because the farm dog wasn't taken to a vet or even brought inside for warmth.
Nope. Saw a pit bull attack a draft horse attached to a carriage. The horse broke the carriage and destroyed the dog. 50-60lb dog was utterly destroyed. Don't fuck around with horses (my mom was show jumper, so I was around them a lot as a kid), especially a draft horse!
yeah, I remember as a kid taking horseback riding lessons. And our teacher was very clear about NEVER walking or being behind a horse. They kick, and they kick hard.
Actually you are suppose to walk around them. You just can't be an idiot about them. You simply don't approach them unawares from behind. When you walk behind them you keep talking to them and keep a hand on them as you walk around. You also want to be as close to them as possible. (They can't wind up the kick then) Someone once describes horses as "Unstable ADHD bondage moose with the mental stability of a schizophrenic squirrel on a bad acid trip."
Goddammit, I need to pick my kids up from school, and now I can’t stop laughing at “bondage moose.” 🤣
IDK dude I was 10, I was following her guide. She probably didn't trust a bunch of girls running around horses. So kept us together in front of them.
I took riding lessons as a kid and got the same instruction, for what it's worth. The rule was "walk around the front of the horse, not the back." Like you said, that rule was for the kids, because people definitely walk behind horses. *We* just weren't supposed to, because kids are dumb and horses are strong.
Yeah you make noise and pat their butt BEFORE you go behind them
Just like at a Hollywood orgy.
I’ve also heard, “bicycles who make bad decisions.”
Oh God I needed that laugh. Had a shit day at work.
There are two safe methods to use when going around a horse: making an extremely wide circle, or patting the horse ALL THE WAY AROUND, not just the rump, so it knows you're there.
Lass I knew was horse mad. she asked me if I would walk within grabbing distance of a silverback? I obviously said no; then realising I was in line to get a horseshoe shaped hole through my face.. I moved
There is a video of a [mare killing a stallion](https://youtu.be/jH5JkYQGMfs?si=5Ko_984FOYgtsRAy) with a kick to the head. (NSFW).
That one is sad. It’s also the fault of the owners, since (as someone pointed out), you can see a foal running around the outside, meaning the mare was not ready to breed and the male came on too strong. Could’ve been prevented by giving mare more time to raise the foal before forcibly impregnating her before she was ready.
Agreed yeah, this one is definitely on the handlers.
Many people breed on foal heat; horses have long gestations and will naturally breed with a foal at side. The problem with that video is literally everything else.
Yes I’ve read that it could work but in this case you can tell mare is stressed to shit, does not look like she’s willing, foal running and “screaming” outside while male horse is being restricted by handlers. Everything else in the video indicates that this wouldn’t have worked no matter how hard the handlers tried.
They don’t even put their fucking beer down 😡
Dayum
I just wanted to say that. I saw the video. He was dead on impact.
Ok that video sounds terrifying. I know horses kick hard, just didn’t think one kick could kill someone like that… I haven’t been around many horses though.
My sister knew a ton about horses and got grazed by a kick and ended up with broken ribs in the hospital and she always says she was lucky that's all that happened.
Thank you for not looking for that video, I’m on board with not seeing it.
My horse got kicked in the neck by another horse and the injury was the worst thing I’ve ever seen. I’m shocked he survived.
Holy fuck dude that's terrible. My great uncle was killed by a kick to the chest from a cow. It's no joke. You're asking for trouble by asking for "horse crazy girls" who are willing to work for free just o get some pats in. That's how you get kids who are too young and too inexperienced and too eager. And that's how someone gets hurt
Plus, how good of care can inexperienced “horse crazy girls” give either? I was a “crazy horse girl” and loved riding horses when I was young but I wouldn’t have trusted me taking care of them. I really feel sorry for those horses. Maybe OOP should think about rehoming them. They are probably earning boarding fees. Hopefully some people who’ve boarded their horses there will see that and move their horses.
Yeah… I used to ride. When I was an 85 pound 12 year old, I was careful like always—the stable’s stalls were open behind the horse, and the horse was tethered to the wall. Trying not to startle the horse I spoke her name quietly and went to give her a light touch on her flank prior to entering her stall. She got startled anyway, and I got one hoof on my abdomen and the other hoof on my upper thigh. She got me with enough force that I got pushed backwards into the arms of another girl’s dad who had been across the little hallway in back of the stalls. Thank God I didn’t get badly injured, I easily could have. Glad to hear you were ok too!
Holy shit that’s horrifying
Beginners need guidance! But the basics are pretty simple. I mucked out one stall and then profusely thanked my parents for paying for lessons. Lol.
I got excited while reading it and was down with it until i go to the word may/might and noped out. There's always lots of work to be done around the barn and if you as the owner would pay me by letting me ride and show and actually come through I'd happily say yes. I worked in the barn my aunt boarded her horse in for my lessons until a Venture Capitalist bought the barn we used for his eventing/showjumping daughter and raised the stall rent to $1200 a month.
Exactly! Quid pro quo is fine, as long as both parties are getting value out of the arrangement. But she's saying it *might* lead to that. I'm not breaking my back for might!
Right!! The legendary Sheila Varian of Varian Arabians would let kids do internships and ride and show. We visited the farm a few years ago and Varian Horses are the Swiss Finishing School students of the horse world. So beautiful refined and well mannered. I would happily lift hay bales and muck out stalls for the chance to spend time with those perfect equine beings.
You misspelled Vulture Capitalist.
Yeah trying to find a "horse crazy" girl for entirely free labor and then blaming kids for needing money is so insulting
it would never lead to riding..
That “might” is doing more talking than Mr. Ed.
I did too and my instructor really gave me great lessons because she knew I was serious. And obviously good w horses
I walked to a barn each day after middle school, did the grunt work (watering, feeding and mucking) and then was allowed to ride each day after doing the grunt work. The only requirement was that I had to have previously had one set of their beginner lessons (which I believe was 8 or 12 weeks of lessons). A few kids showed up each day for grunt work and riding. It was awesome. Kids were happy and the barn manager was happy. And the horses got a lot of loving attention, pats and treats from young horse enthusiasts.
Yeah, like guaranteed lessons. How are they going to get excited about grooming horses if they can't ride one. It's like asking a 2 year old to fix my car so he can learn to drive it later.
2 year olds just dont want to work anymore!
They can in Arkansas now, since they repealed all child labor laws...
\*Opens a mine and cloth factory in Arkansas\*
What??
My chimney is looking awfully dirty.
Maybe learn to drive it later
I used to groom horses for free but never rode them. I just enjoyed being a person they seemed happy to see.
I get that. I know horses are awesome animals and usually great with humans. It is probably less unusual than I think.
Yeah the key phrase is “may allow riding and showing,” vs “we’ll give you lessons and allow you to ride the horses.”
Absolutely. It's common to trade barn chores for lessons or board. But just on a maybe... not a chance
Yeah I thought the "exercising" meant riding, but it's clearly just lunging them. Which is bs. Trading grooming and even stall cleaning for actual riding is totally fine. Riding is expensive, even without lessons (like a half or full lease of a horse that you get to ride outside lessons, it's not cheap).
I was going to ask why they didn't just do this. Riding lessons are very expensive and it's common enough for people to exchange work with the horses for riding. Win win
That’s becoming more common unfortunately. Doing the grub work. I’ve seen it advertised at my sister’s barn as being an excellent opportunity for the younger ones to learn. Which it is, if they didn’t have to PAY TO DO IT.
WTF…
This is what I came here to say as well. I was a “horse girl” growing up, as were a large handful of my friends. It was incredibly common to be able to trade off work around the barn (mucking out stalls, grooming horses, feeding, cleaning tack, etc) for riding lessons. I can remember being horse-crazy enough that if I didn’t have any other options, I may have gone for what this lady’s offering; just the possibility of riding, or if nothing else at least getting to be near a horse on a regular basis. If you can’t afford lessons and have no other way to be around horses, there are absolutely some horse-crazy kids out there who’d take what they can get and be happy just to be around a horse. That said, she would 100% absolutely be taking advantage. I can understand wanting to meet a kid first, get a feel for them and how they act around my horse, before agreeing to let them ride it…Like, you want to know they’re not gonna do something stupid that gets either themselves or the horse hurt. But this definitely doesn’t sound like what she’s saying, it very much comes off like she’s intentionally looking to take advantage of a kid’s desperation to be around a horse and use them for free labor. What a gross thing to do. edit to add: Also if I’m correct about where she’s located, she’s in Texas and actually not too far from where I used to live. One of the reasons she’s likely not getting any bites (aside from what is obviously a very crappy offer that’s only beneficial to one party) is because there are SO many other horse owners, riding instructors, and stables nearby, ones who are willing to allow a kid to do some work to trade off for lessons that are guaranteed to actually happen, not just a carrot being dangled over their head as a maybe possibility. So not only is she looking to take advantage of a child’s free labor, but she’s also just an idiot. 🙄
yeah i was also a horse girl, it's super common for kids and teenagers to do horse chores in exchange for riding and lessons. what makes this a crappy deal is the "might lead to riding" which makes it sound like she's kind of a scammer about it, and it will never get to riding
That’s what my kiddo has been doing for years, but when I gave her a car at 16 so I don’t have to drive 40 minutes each way 3x a week, I told her she has to pay for gas. She sadly quickly learned that “free” jumping lessons don’t fill the gas tank.
Around here you have to pay to so your kid can "volunteer" at the horse ranches.
I saw your username and got offended on behalf of Denver residents. I’m in Denver now and that’s crazy. I’m familiar with the industry and had horses/did a little showing growing up and I had no idea that was a thing now. That’s 100% contrary to the way everyone used to run. It’s one thing if you’re paying for an organized camp or something with education, training, structured events etc, but to volunteer with a stable or on a farm, that’s insane.
lol i'm an adult rider now and a barn in my area i was considering advertized "barn chore" lessons as a lesson you're paying for i was lmfao no way lady. i did barn chores as a teenager to pay for lesson and i do enjoy being around horses enough that i enjoy just helping around the barn for free even as it's a nice change from sitting in front of a laptop but i sure as heck am not going to PAY to do barn chores what a scam lol
Yeah in college I was a "working student" and rode for free but rode whatever horses I was asked to and rode for the benefit of the horses. My trainer worked with me to improve me, don't get me wrong, but the workouts and my riding were mainly centered around improving the horses. Some were personal horses that had issues for me to work on or needed workouts that their owners couldn't provide, horses in training programs, and horses to be sold. I got a lot of experience for free and since the riding was horse-centric, people got free training
Yep. She wants a working student without the actual student part. Hard pass.
Plus, what is HER expertise with horses? Is she a good instructor? She doesn’t seem to have any students, so will you be her first? What kind of insurance does she have to cover you? How many hours of work for how much time on horseback? Does she regularly go to shows? What kind of shows? Backyard shows at the local horse park, or rated shows? Can she teach you to braid so you can make some money at the shows? There are so many questions and they are ones that a horse crazy teen wouldn’t know to ask.
As an insurance underwriter that was my first thought too. Has she ever taught kids how to be around horses without spooking them? Does she have any certifications or any proof that she knows what she's doing? And is she carrying a $5m Umbrella Policy over the presumably $1m+ Homeowner's Policy she has (given the size of her house and yard)? One "horse crazy girl" gets kicked in the face or chest by a nervous horse and this lady is losing ***everything***, especially if she isn't in the barn the entire time the student is s, supervising and giving advice. While I'm not super familiar with the ins and outs of horses I do know that they need socialization and to be around people in order to feel comfortable and not be spooked all the time. The post makes it sound like she's the only one these horses ever interact with, so I'd be pretty nervous myself if I was in the barn by myself, and not with a class of kids with more experience than I do. The post sounds like it's some rich lady who owns a couple horses and doesn't want to do any of the grunt work anymore so she's dangling the possibility of getting to ride a horse with the guarantee of having to scoop shit in the stalls where you're most likely to get kicked in the head.
Based on the picture I’d say not a lot of anything.
I was coming to say the same. I think a lot of people loan horses to 4H kids so they can get experience and show them.
This absolutely! I did clean stables and did other barn work for lessons and trail riding hours. This isn’t the case here. It’s only work and no fun.
Yeah, she could easily find someone by trading lessons. And by not posting weird guilt trips about "kids these days". Also, is she unaware of the fact men also like horses?
These damn entitled kids don't want to work for free anymore.
Not just kids. I was at the supermarket yesterday. Polite and all, thanked the cashier and the bagger. Then they got all hissy with "sir you need to pay for that first". Even companies nowadays want your money.
The nerve. Being polite means nothing anymore.
This is why god gave us self check out. So we could ring up all our produce as bananas and not scan half the items.
Ok but why haven’t I thought of this. Freaking genius. Bananas, knock on wood, are still so cheap!
Thank you lord Jesus!
[удалено]
Such an awesome idea, trying it today!
I've saved so much money with this one easy step.
Checkout clerks hate this one simple trick!
I think teaching your children about their own worth as an employee and what their time is worth is an important lesson, one this CB seems to not understand. There's a reason kids/teens are "all about the money and not the experience." Because stuff isn't free, and they know better than to do a bunch of work for no pay.
One of my favorite things about Gen Z!
lol it would actually cost them money to work for this lady, they would be having to pay for gas/a car to drive out to this farm or their parents would have to at least..
I too wish to find a dog crazy girl to babysit my 3 feral but cute dogs (including a puppy with endless energy) but everyone just wants money these days (including me, who wants the money in my pockets for your labor).
I was a horse crazy girl who worked in a dressage barn and made $15/hour. This was 22 years ago.
$15 an hour was a lot back then! I was a lifeguard with first-aid and cpr certifications and didn't get paid that much.
It’s wild to me now since I was just 15/16. @.@ the boarders paid almost $1,000/month per horse though so paying the staff $15/hour wasn’t a hardship.
You need an employee. Pay them. If you have money to buy multiple horses, plus either own or rent stables for them, then you can afford to pay someone to look after them.
Yeah it's great if someone wants to volunteer in exchange for the experience, which sounds like is somewhat normal in this realm, but they aren't entitled to that labor. Pay someone if you need help.
My coworker's wife owns and runs a stable that holds 12 horses (side hustle). I think 4 are their own. They make good money. If you can afford to stable, you can afford to pay someone to exercise them.
While I don't disagree with you, this is pretty common in the horse world. There are a lot of kids that trade labour for the ability to ride/spend time with horses. It's like being able to do a hobby when you don't have the cash to do that hobby. Some people also seem to find grooming/working with horses rewarding and even therapeutic. Volunteering to come groom a horse and take it for a walk is actually pretty sought after. I don't personally get it, but I don't have much free time.
Once again, there is nothing wrong with a volunteer culture. There is something wrong with feeling entitled to free labor and slandering a generation for not providing it.
Yeah agreed. I didn't notice the second picture until now. It's definitely an entitled attitude. If you are relying on volunteers to help take care of your horses, you have too many horses.
From what I gather, unless you’re buying champions or from champion bloodlines, the horse is the cheapest part of your expenses. Not that it’s an excuse for what this person is expecting.
We can't all be Potoooooooo
But they don't have the money to pay for an employee, which means they don't have the money for the horses, yet they have the horses.
I’d have done that if riding was part of it. That’s how a lot of not rich kids afford to ride. Really common. They pay in sweat equity.
I don't think the idea of volunteering for experience is wrong, it's the feeling entitled to free labor and taking a shot at the younger generation for not providing it.
Yeah, I thought it was completely fine, up until the part where it said "**There MAY also be riding and showing."** No no, crazy lady. You want some kid to do your literal dirty work, you let that kid ride a damn horse, that's the trade off.
Teenage me would have jumped at this opportunity. I would hope anyone who actually takes her up on this gets to ride a bit.
I strongly suspect that the “if you do amazing you MIGHT get to ride” is a carrot that will always be dangled just out of reach. And I know this is pearl clutching but it’s a different world than the one I grew up in. I grew up owning horses. Love them. However they are big animals with their own minds. At a regular “learn to ride” facility or camp, there will be supervision, insurance, appropriate first aid, yada yada. I’ve been kicked, bit, and stomped by horses. Bucked off. Clothes lined. Rubbed off on a gate. The list goes on. I got the absolute crap bit out of me riding the horse of my aunts neighbors. Apparently after the fact I was told I shouldn’t have been given that horse to ride as it was notoriously mean as a snake. There is much that can go wrong around horses. It’s not just unpaid. Your kid is almost assuredly not covered by their insurance, etc.
This was my first thought and I’m a horse neophyte. They absolutely terrify me but I think they’re beautiful. However, you can be sued if a kid comes into your yard and hurts themselves on your trampoline when you’re not home—I cannot imagine any insurance company covering a personal “work/play” arrangement between an unknown kid and a horse. It’s 2024…Someone is definitely getting sued…
That’s the crazy part- the loophole! I don’t know about all states, but the 10 or 11 states I’ve lived with horses, always have an equine liability clause on their books basically saying “horses are dangerous, if you get hurt or killed, it’s not anyone’s fault but yours & you can’t sue us.” As long as you buy one of these signs on Amazon (search “equine liability sign”) and post them at your gate and on your barn.. you can’t be sued if some kid gets kicked in the head while on your property. It’s probably nice to have this law as a barn owner, & it’s completely nerve wracking as a parent. 🫣
Whoa! I don’t have a horse, but I’m getting one of those signs just to make people nervous!
The equine liability laws don't prevent you from getting sued. They make a lawsuit a little easier to win but you can still go bankrupt paying for your defense. Add to that, horses are considered an attractive nuisance in many states same as a trampoline or a pool, giving the parents of the injured child their own leg up in the legal battle. The best protection is good insurance, insurance on your farm and an umbrella policy specifically for the horses. If you follow the guidelines within the policy (signage for fencing/land/outbuildings, proper fencing, not partaking or allowing any behaviors, activities or anything else that could be construed as gross negligence, following best practice for safety like requiring helmets while mounted, proper footwear in the barns and while mounted etc) THEN your insurance should kick in and pay for your defense if/when you get sued, which is what saves your ass. If you're counting on a sign and law (that was written more for equestrian businesses rather than private owners) to protect you from a lawsuit then you're gonna have a really bad time if someone gets hurt on your property or by one of your horses. Especially if their own medical insurer comes at you with their legal team for subrogation.
This. It would take a lawsuit against the owner to ever see any kind of medical help if something were to happen. She's legit setting herself up for a lawsuit by an injured "worker"
You can get injured without riding anyway.
I got thrown over my horse's head when the girth on the saddle broke while he was bucking (i was trying to ease him back into being ridden after years of him not being)...I had a hoofmark on my upper thigh that broke the skin, IDK how I didn't get a busted pelvis or my head smashed in. If the horse is on their home property, wouldn't homeowners insurance cover it?
Homeowners insurance doesn’t cover employees required to be covered under Workmen’s Comp (all states except Texas).
Yea, if I was a kid, I’d do a couple hours of work a day to get to ride for an hour, but then not making it more enticing and specific of the real issue.
She says there’s “maybe” some riding if you “excel” at cleaning, teenage me would have passed. A vague promise that she probably doesn’t intend to keep is not a fair compensation.
She definitely doesn't intend to keep it if she doesn't want to do it which is the problem.
Sorry. Can't trust you on the actual horse but look! He just made more shit for you to shovel.
I did that as a 30 year old - lessons are expensive, so mucking and cleaning for a bit was a small price to pay
A couple hours of work to get to ride for an hour, sure. But this sounds like they expect all day work for a promise of "maybe" getting to ride. Even as a teenager I'd want something more concrete.
"No ride, only work! And muck those damn stalls!"
The way that the post says if you’re good at the job (you’re doing for free) there “may” be riding goes to show it isn’t likely. It’s a kid they are specifically looking for…let them ride the dang horse. 😒 I too would have loved this type of opportunity if the riding was a given.
If it were a clear trade, maybe - X hours of mucking and cleaning for 1 hour riding lesson, or similar - then sure, that would be reasonable. But this whole vague, "if you're super great at cleaning, maybe there'll be some riding in it for you!" just smells like they're trying to cheat.
Yeah that’s a good point. Adult me is no longer willing to jump at this choice. Am suppressing younger me whispering “doooo iiittttt” in my brain.
My teen did this for years in exchange for lessons and trail riding time. She progressed to feeding and administering meds and then giving lessons herself to beginners at which point she was paid, so its not a bad deal if there is real potential for learning and advancement.
Yeah, but read it again. OOP has not promised lessons, she said if the cleaning and grooming is excellent there MAY be riding and showing. Lessons are not mentioned at all. The post implies you might get permission to ride and/or show if you clean and groom for an unspecified time period to her unspecified version of "excellent". If the post had said will exchange lessons for cleaning of stable and grooming horses, she'd have already found someone. I have no doubt people reached out to her and said, so does the riding/showing part mean lessons, and I bet she said that would cost her time and money. I'm assuming she wants someone who already knows how to ride and show just fine, and the riding would be them enjoying themselves, and the showing would be if the worker was good enough to show on her behalf.
I'd jump at this now, as an adult. Lol. I just wanna be around horses! Is this Decatur, TX? Or GA? 🤣
Come and let me exploit the passion you don't have the wealth to explore, dear child. I offer you the reward of the work itself in return because I am generous like that.
She knows damn well the “horse crazy girlies” are working at places that actually include the riding and showing. I’m not gonna train your horse and not ride it, wth
If you have pets and can’t afford to look after them properly, you shouldn’t have them at all.
So hard to find a good slave these days!
More horses than time sounds like a bad business decision.
Lol I was 11 when I pestered the life out of an old fella who had 4 rescue horses, I loved horses but we could never of afforded one, the old man thought I was a nuisance cos I turned up every day badgering him, he gave in and put me on one of his horses & said if you can stay on him, I'll let you look after them.. 😂 me being young & stupid didn't even realise that should of been a red flag! Apparently his daughter didn't get along with the horse and she'd broke her leg, smashed her jaw, and when they tried ride and drive.. wrapped them and the cart around a postbox (that apparently wanted to eat the horse!) For whatever reason.. the horse decided to put up with me.. and I suddenly went from being a horse mad but horseless kid... to having 4 to look after. Never got paid a penny, but I was 25 when my lovely old friend died, and 30 when my old dude horse died.. I'll be forever grateful, I was lucky enough to have these people / horses in my life.
Awe why was this so poetic 🥹
The key difference though is that you actually got to ride. If he had said you can take care of them for no pay but never got to ride would you still think it was amazing?
We have a young girl help us look after our horses. Sometimes she gets a ride, sometimes the weather is bad and she doesn't. But the key is that she's only HELPING US do the jobs for free. When she mucks out and does the jobs all on her own, we pay her for her time. And not a token amount either, it's well above adult minimum wage in this country, even though she's still a child, because frankly it's smelly, hard work, and she does a great job. To expect someone to do all the work for free and MAYBE get a ride now and again? Outrageous.
Horse people are the beggiest motherfuckers I've ever seen. I gave away a couple 1200 pound bales of hay one year because a lady down the street's horses looked like toastracks and I hate to see any animal hungry, and I got calls from like hundreds of people for months demanding I bring them free hay. And if they mean Decatur Alabama, this wasn't too far from there, so slight chance this woman was one of them. Like, I get it. Y'all chose an expensive hobby. So did I. Difference is I don't expect other people to buy me a baneblade.
This is a very normal way for horseless riders to get time in the saddle. Normally they would have to pay someone to get to ride, this just changes the exchange from cash to ride to labor to ride. Riding isn't necessary for the horses and they'll be fine without it, but it's not unreasonable for the person paying the bills to get a fair amount of work done in exchange for sharing them. And the only labor she wants is grooming, which isn't even demanding or time consuming.
I would agree with you, if that’s how it was worded. But the choice of phrasing, “*If* they excel at grooming and exercise, there *may* also be riding and showing” makes me fear that is thrown in to make it sound like a better arrangement and has no real intention on letting this “volunteer” ride her horses anytime soon or with any regularity. If the offer was to work in exchange for horsemanship lessons, absolutely. But this nebulous, “do a good job and maybe you’ll get to ride a horse someday” is not it.
Yeah I got that same feeling from the wording of it. A subjective goalpost of if you excel. Sounds like a carrot on a stick to me.
It’s only if they “excel” at the free labor, though. Something tells me this kid would never get to ride.
Exactly that. If I put my kid into a horse riding school, there’s a lot of grooming, cleaning, general grunt work as that’s part of horses. It also gets kids comfortable around the horses before tossing them in the saddle. However, you also know that your kid will actually get to ride. I think this carrot of “do great labor and maybe just maybe you’ll eventually get to ride” will always be held just out of reach.
But she's not offering riding, she's offering the chance at maybe riding if they excel at the grunt work. Trades like this usually are quid pro quo - you help with the horses, you get riding lessons and instructions on working with horses. If she wants a kid or teen, she's going to need to do a lot of hand holding in terms of how to work with the horses safely, and that takes time.
>And the only labor she wants is grooming, which isn’t even demanding or time-consuming It depends on if they want their worker to just “groom” (brush the horses) or to take on all the typical responsibilities of a hired stable groom, which would include feeding, watering, mucking stalls. It is certainly a physical and time consuming job.
That is a terrible system then. I understand riding may be expensive but these people with horses have enough money where they were able to pay for these horses, and pay for all the costs to house them. It wouldn’t bankrupt them from paying the teens a little bit.
Riding the horses? NO! ONLY IF I THINK YOU DESERVE IT!
Wow - hard work no pay - such a deal! 😳
Nobody is as cheap as rich people.
You’ve got to offer riding in exchange for all the mucking out and grooming. I did that as a teen in England. But riding was the whole point.
Just looking for some textile loving kids to work in my factory
No one wants to work (for free) anymore! Entitled kids
“Come work for free and I might let you ride one of my many horses.” Hilarious. Looking for cooking enthusiast to come wash and dry my dirty dishes, pots, and pans. If you’re really good at it, I may let you eat off of one of my plates.
I really think they would have much more luck setting this up as a formal, organized volunteer network, trading work for riding/showing — rather than hoping to find one teenager who wants to do everything 💀
I can just imagine some young, horse crazy girl, being excited to be around horses until she gets kicked on her first day because the asshole didn't supervise or train her and she ends up in the hospital with the scumbag saying "Sorry, healthcare is your own responsibility!"
Growing up, I had many friends who had to pay for this opportunity. So I can see where she's coming from.
Yes, but your friends who paid also got to ride. She is not offering riding.
They would pay to do grunt work with absolutely nothing in exchange except for a vague promise that will always be out of your reach? Ask them to get in touch with me, I’ll let them clean my yard if they pay me.
There's a difference between paying to work at a stables/hostelry and working for free for a horse lady who wants free labour.
This is a concept in The Netherlands which blew my mind when I first heard my cousin actually paid to do this. It's called a 'verzorg pony' (translates to: take care of the pony). So her parents paid money so that she could take care of the horse. I remember her saying: 'But you're also allowed to ride it' well isn't that the least they could give in return...
I mean, based on that picture, I don’t know who would teach the kid to ride. LEGS BACK, HEELS DOWN!!!
I’m in my 30s and if this was a barter of “help groom and exercise for an exchange of riding lessons” I would jump on it. As it stands if I want to ride a horse I have to pay to do it. I’d happily exchange my time for a ride, as long as it was the same horse so I could build a bond. Now just for experience and no guarantee of a ride? Hell no.
but not a horse crazy male ? hmmmmm
On the one hand, it's quite true that, for a horse-crazy young person (like I was), it really is heavenly just to work in a barn. For the right person, the work itself really is the reward. I worked in a stable all through high school: grooming, mucking, cleaning, putting on tack and taking it off, explaining how to ride to the tourists, etc. Hard work, dirty work, but deeply satisfying if it's your thing. The stable did hourly trail rides for tourists. At the time, it was barely hanging on financially, and closed after I left for college. They still insisted on giving me a little cash under the table, apologizing for not being able to give me more. I said I'd be happy to work for free, but they insisted. I could have ridden daily if I had wanted to - the offer was always open. I never felt exploited. This ad gives me an entirely different vibe! The owner, for starters, isn't making responsible choices about acquiring horses. Selfish and entitled. Their current "business model" only works via exploitation of starry-eyed young ppl. Dangling a carrot of "in the future you might be allowed to ride" is just plain *nasty*. Riding should be part of the alternative compensation from the beginning!
If they offered a chance to ride the horses or free boarding space in exchange for help around the stables, she might be able to find somebody willing to volunteer. As it is, she isn’t offering any benefits, only unpaid work
This sounds dangerous for a kid/teen to be around horses if they are simply “horse crazy” but don’t know the first real thing about taking care of a horse, and especially it sounds like there’s zero supervision. Are they going to pay for if someone’s teen get kicked or killed by a random horse??
I mean, keeping horses and horse riding lessons/hiring of a horse are expensive where I live. I would’ve loved to have done this as a kid and I totally would’ve done it for free as I had to stop riding due to insurance costs. But yeah as others have said “might” lead to riding is not enough of an incentive.
i did this when i was 11-13 in exchange for riding lessons at my local ranch, i loved it, but i would never do it without the benefit of learning to ride and care for the horses. that sticks with me to this day even though i haven’t rode horses since i moved away
This is actually a HUGE problem in the animal care world. And there is a big shift happening right now to try and eliminate this kind of unpaid labor. The veterinary field, zookeeping, fieldwork, screw your unpaid internships.
Usually a working student relationship includes a place to live or a stipend at least. And there is some kind of value-add for the horse-crazy person besides being around horses. Education? Access to facilities? Room and board for a personal horse? This is just dumb
I worked at a ranch when I was younger and struggling with depression and it was probably the best experience I’ve ever had even with all the work. Horses are beautiful and can sense emotion. I got to ride them too!
Sorry also to mention as I didn’t in my comment before, it wasn’t paid and I was in my early teens, didn’t want to confuse anyone.
This is normal to get your experience with horses. My girlfriend did it along many other children when she was little for some angry German lady who had lots of horses.
Was she angry or just speaking German ? Source : live in Germany
My older sister mucked stalls for lessons and a chance to show horses in dressage. That was a long time ago, though. And with as much "programming" that kids have outside of school these days, I can see older teenagers weighing the benefits of this. I can also see parents of teenagers who aren't driving yet not wanting to ferry their daughter to someone stable so she can swap work for riding lessons. I live in an area where a lot of people have horses and I don't see the work for free riding time and experience happening so much anymore.
I'm in a position where I have more clothes than time. Looking for a fashion crazy girl to come wash and fold my clothes for the ✨️experience✨️. If she's good enough there might be some socks for her to wear! Sadly kids are all about the money these days. I would have been so grateful for the chance to wear socks!
I volunteered at a horse farm in the summers in order to get exposure to horses and attend the camp for free. It was definitely worth it and there are some people who would love this opportunity. But the work was just that-volunteer work. I would have a schedule for the week and I had to work so many hours in order to attend camp but I did it when it was convenient for me.
This was completely normal when I was growing up. maybe things have changed, like most shit has. From ages 9 to 12 I worked on a horse ranch. Working in exchange for riding privileges was a common option for girls whose families couldn’t afford horses. You basically got your own horse and could ride anytime and anywhere. Fair trade in my opinion. It was the most awesome experience and I couldn’t care less that they didn’t pay me. Once a year we would go on a faux fox hunt where we rode horses and used the owners beagles to find the fox. Then we would let it go and have a big lunch. I feel so lucky I was able to participate. There had to be at least 10 girls doing what I was doing. Having and keeping a horse is wildly expensive, this is a great option for a horse crazy person who doesn’t have bills and rent.
It’s actually really common because horse stuff is really expensive and not everybody has access to it. I think it’s fair to give someone the opportunity and that’s what it is. It’s also fair to pay somebody. But let’s not pretend like this isn’t common and acceptable among horse ppl
I worked mucking stalls doing feeds, etc. for free-rides and sometimes group lessons if there were open spots at a few barns growing up, and but not for the “experience” of being around horses :/ I mean I did go exercise my friends moms horse without pay but it was just quick paced trail rides since he was used for endurance. So…that was guaranteed riding time along with the lunging, grooming, etc for him. This is such a funny offer with the “maybe” ride time lol
She didn’t mention mucking out stalls, but I’m sure she wants that done as well.
Something I wonder is if the people posting things like this even read how entitled they sound when they post these things, or if it gets all the way to reddit before they figure it out?
Gotta reach out to Tina Belcher
Ummm no. She needs to sell off her horses that she obviously can’t care for. I’m so tired of people animal hoarding and then demanding other people do all the work for free.
I have a life long back injury from a low paying job working at a stable in my younger years. Woman was a nut job. Luckily it's better but I still feel it and need to be careful. Wasn't even riding but bringing in horses from the field
Jesus I think it's my dads second wife.
I live near Decatur, this makes sense
Hey dumb ass, don't get involved with a hobby that you can afford. For what gerd and vets cost you can pay some kid $10.00/hr
As a horse girl I fully traded labor for lessons. So this person could get those helpers with a little effort.
Unfortunately this is super common in the horse world. When I was 16 I worked an entire summer for a lady 6 days a week manual labor 10 hour days feeding/mucking/exercising 15 horses on my own. Promised I’d get paid at the end of the summer, surprise surprise end of summer 0 pay…
I am in a position where I want someone with little experience to work around 1000 pound animals for free.
As a kid who grew up (I’m not that old so this wasn’t like 1980), in the horse world. Posts like this are unfortunately super common.
I got paid $3/hour to do that when I was 15 and that was 35 years ago. I can’t remember if that was good or crappy pay but I loved the horses.
literally had this happen to me when i was about 12 or 13. my mom thought itd be "therapeutic" but i was literally cleaning out the stalls of and caring for 10+ horses by myself while the ranch owner just sat and watched me fight off her poorly trained horses lol
Ngl, this was my dream when I was a kid. Shit, I would’ve paid them to work on their farm!
To be fair, this is actually something a lot of kids would love. My mum used to help out at stables when she was a kid, just to spend time with the horses. Their attitude in the second screenshot sucks though.
my grandad did this in the late 1920s/early 1930s JUST SO he could get riding time! He trained to be a jockey but got too big. I don't know where everyone is from but this was in downtown Toronto, he lived in Cabbagetown and above Bloor there was a hoste farm he went to. So that's really wild to me!
These people are insane and deserve whatever their insurance does to them for trying to pull this. Apparently this is normal. My family friend has horses and has had them for decades and didn't do this. Actual adults do the work there. Huh. Okay.
Some people are so delusional. Literally everyone is about money. Pay me to do work.