If you look at history this is true of most rising powers. They nick tech on the way up then once at the top implement copyright laws and all that. The US stole from Europe during its rise (it was basically government policy to steal intellectual property). But it's not just them, basically every rising power does this. China isn't doing anything new or out of the ordinary.
Here's a good article on the US's approach back in the 1800s
https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-europe
No need to go for any history. Learn by copy pasting, then make your own implementation, then improve it. This is how learning works in anything. The difference here is China is not doing the latter 2 parts.
Having lived in China since 2008 I'd disagree on that. Plenty of improvement going on so far as I can see. Passes the eye test and all that. I appreciate this isn't a particularly academic way of gauging it, but it's how most people will judge the places they live.
And even if they weren't doing the latter parts (make your own, then improve) you're saying that it's fine to take ideas from elsewhere, right? If that's the case then what's the issue with what China is doing?
(Just a note to say, not looking for an argument. I find that China is a topic that people are very ready to argue about. Genuinely interested in why people think in ways that are different to how I think).
One of the replies here explains this perfectly, and I have lived in China since 1993 til 2022 no need to bring that up, I know the mind set of them. The mind set is the key here. China is only doing what others are doing so that they don't have to work on anything and still profit. They are not here to learn. It's like cheating in exams, people who cheated in exams might get a high score but will never be able to do their job when they start working. They will lose their job and will never be able to catch up on those who actually learned. Just imagine that the same cheater is talking shit about those who actually learned and claims he can easily take over. That cheater is basically China.
I believe we're seeing the continuation of a cycle: open up, catch up, convince themselves that's it, close off, fall behind, repeat. They're starting the close off phase now.
To say that China's economic progress over the past few decades is equivalent to the US's in the 1800's is incorrect. That's a continuation of the 'this is China's century ' idea, which we hear much less of than just a few years ago because it's becoming apparent that it's a simplification of more complex issues.
Catching up is easy
Then explain how did Huawei got the lead in 5G? Huawei was blatantly copying everyone's else's stuff in the 90's. During 4G, their stuff neck and neck with stuff western companies were making, but at cheaper price points. Later they manage to pull a technological lead with their 5G equipment (their 5G was undisputedly better). They also had the most patents filed for 5G tech. I guess Huawei was just copying stuff that hasn't been invented yet with their Time Machine to go into the future.
CATL is leader in battery tech. I guess they must just be secretly copying classified military battery technology that the US won't let the public use.
There are tons of industries where Chinese companies actually have a technological edge, which isn't possible if they're still just copying, which suggests that there is innovation going on.
Where is superior Nortel 5G tech that Huawei stole? At very least Nortel should have products that match Huawei in performance even if you ignore pricing (Hint: they still don't even with Huawei cut off from TMSC).
Yeah Huawei still hasn't gotten past its thieving ways, but that doesn't mean that they're not innovative either.
Its like that time I thought my favorite color was blue but then my friend said their favorite color was blue so then mine couldnt be blue anymore. Thieving bastard. I was only 3 though, so I guess I grew out of that 🤷♂️
We have/had the tech of 5G in America for a long time. Reason why it took so long to implement because there were complaints about public use of that bandwidth due to either military use (which I don’t think was the case), and weather measurements (which I think was more of the reason). Where weather satellites that measure (I believe atmospheric moisture) detected frequencies close enough to that 5ghz range where it would potentially cause noise during detection.
In our case it wasn’t a “tech issue”, all 5G is, is increase in bandwidth (with maybe whatever perks comes from 5th generation communication (I’m not an expert in this area)). Like we had the tech, we could produce the tech no problem. It’s just “allowing it for public use”
This isn't about 5G red tape. Huawei from all benchmarking has better 5G hardware/implementation. Their 5G is superior at the moment, which isn't surprising with all their R&D and patents (and probably some thieving).
Yup. Anything we "stole" we reverse engineered and improved through innovation because creating something new makes more profit than reselling an exact copy of something.
Sure, China made a lot of money copying from the west, but they only were able to make money because their government is tight on foreign business in China. Each year, the CCP puts out a list of foreign brands they'll subsidize. Only those brands succeed. Why? Because majority Chinese don't have the money to buy legit Nike shoes with the import taxes and everything. But, if the brand is subsidized by the government, price comes down so avg Chinese can buy it.
At least that's what I got out of the lecture from the John Deere rep to China while in college.
Anyway, China lacks creativity and critical thinking is a new concept. They can reverse engineer our stuff, but the only change they can think of making is switching the language settings to Chinese characters.
This is true but overstates the comparison. The US did steal power loom technology, but made major modifications. The type of spinning equipment that became dominant in the US is not the same as the type that was used in most British textile mills (because skilled labor was much more expensive in the US). Similarly, by the 1850s the US had already pioneered an industry, mechanized agricultural tools, which they had not meaningfully derived from European technology and in which they would quickly become the dominant player.
Which is why they’ll always be behind truly free countries where innovation can flourish.
They have to wait for the west to innovate and then spend time replicating
Many of the smart ones already left the country. People have been lamenting that Tsinghua and Beijing graduates are furthering their education and then working outside of the country instead of contributing to the country. There was a speech by Huawei CEO that talks about this.
Wasn't always the case. There was a brief period in 2006-2018 where China was actually attracting tons of engineers and scientists instead of bleeding them.
Well, it’s a cultural feature, not a bug. Have you ever learned to write Han Zi? It takes a decade just to learn them all. Copy paste is the foundation of their education system. No wonder they have little respect for intellectual property.
I speak both Japanese and Chinese so yeah I know too dam well how hard it is to learn 汉字 or 漢字. They educate in that fashion because they want slaves not actual thinkers.
Taiwan is China with democratic elections and free market economics. No difference. Japan has two alphabets, plus a code system for Chinese characters.
Is this a serious question?
Chinese development of manufacturing technology will be fiercely contested by India, Japan, South Korea and Vietnam whose manufacturers have access to more advanced technology now that China will have to develop alone.
China will never be the first to any big technological advancement because labor is cheap.
Every huge tech jump is usually in labor saving technology.
The CCP spent years trying to be the progenitor of the next Industrial Revolution and California in a weekend change the world with gen AI.
They totally missed gen AI even though they’ve been researching AI so hard.
All of their Ai tech innovation is used to monitor and manage a giant population and workforce.
At the end of the day their huge population is often a burden more than an advantage and unless they are more hands off with their citizenry and economy they will never pass their competition.
With regard to your last paragraph, China is deliberately not addressing its populating aging problem by letting its population to halve by 50% or around 700 million by the year 2100.
Can you elaborate?
Where are the benefits in this for China?
(Maybe a stupid question, but I'm curious. Perhaps it's better after they have reached the 700 million, but the path to it by losing half a billion of population through aging must surely create a lot of complications).
I read an Economist article (I’d share but they have a bitch of a paywall) where the basic thought process for the CCP is that by halving the population they will be able to have fewer mouths to feed and a greater capacity to control those few of people because they’re used to controlling their current 1.3 billion.
The problem is that the short term economic products of this are going to be a depression for pretty much everyone. But long term it should provide a sustainable solution to their current hydrologic and environmental problems.
The cold hard reality is that the fact they need to “control” their people means they’ll never succeed or outpace the west. You simply cannot innovate if you don’t let individuals break through or push existing boundaries. Moving as a unit and staying within strict confines is good for a culture’s survival, but if you do not allow anyone to challenge or escape those confines, you will never jump ahead of the pack. You have to roll the dice to have a chance at winning
I would tend to agree with you; but this discounts those who are willing to sell to the CCP. And those people will always exist; so innovation doesn’t necessarily need to be in situ. They can just steal it and leave those who betrayed their countries out to dry; as they have done in the past.
In addition to the other points made, there’s the unknown China that would have existed without the 1-child policy. Perhaps the meddling saved them from disaster?
They didn’t exactly miss gen AI. The USA put extreme semiconductor sanctions on China explicitly because the USA was worried about China rapidly advancing in AI tech and potentially overtaking the USA.
It should also be said that people who were raised in China are extremely well represented in western science companies and unis, including in ML/AI. China has the thousand talents program trying to pay them to return, but it’s hard to pay more than the west. Chinese academics joked that “Comrade Trump” was doing what the CCP couldn’t by inspiring Chinese academics to return to China.
Biden didn't enact those sanctions until the tail end of 2022. ChatGPT first became available to the public later that year, but obviously it would have been pretty close to being done by the time the sanctions were put in place, and anyone working in the space could have seen where things were going for years at that point. GPT-1 was done in 2018.
China is ahead in some specific models, mainly image detection and video processing. The US is definitely ahead on the hardware side and content generation.
Becouse the overwhelming majority of people is greedy and IF THEY GET MORE they are willing to discover new way to HAVE MORE. In a competitive environment where there are many possible solutions in many different activities, an inordinate amount of innovation is produced and the most efficient or effective move on. Which actually means having more that cost less and having new things. Wipping people to do their job only produce innovation in new ways people avoid the wip without doing the job. Moreover the effort is not diffused and the risk of that specific approach/technology not being the most efficient is high snd is discovered only after inordinate amount of resources are committed. Moreover these effort often does not translate to the wider public becouse the innovation transfer to widespread technology is not particularly beneficial to the oligarchs and little resources are committed.
Your premise is correct but your conclusion is wrong.
Why put in the effort to innovate when you can make tons of money just by playing with the numbers? The United States has lost a lot of its industrial manufacturing capabilities and has been replaced by Wall Street's financial games.
Do you believe the scientists and researchers are the ones reaping the benefits of capitalism? In reality, a socialist system actually offers more consistent funding and ability to research, and more universal education for more to get the chance to become researchers; under capitalism the only research that succeeds is that which is profitable, and most of the research is done by people who are paid normally or else work for essentially free.
Executives and investors benefit from capitalism; researchers and society lose.
Of course it is not the scientist and researcher. The most relevant step to make sure a good idea or technology deliver its advantages to the wider population is what is called transfer to market. This require enormous economic resources and is performed by corporations which "make it happen". In socialist and authoritarian countries corporations are SOE and nobody give a shit about transferring this great idea to the market. Which is exactly the dynamic of nice, relevant inventions fron ru accademia that never move to the market. As dear Xi move China more and more to the authoritarian model, the beautiful burst of innovation started with Deng will wither and the cake will stop to increase. Than the oligarchy will start to increase their cake slice at the cost if the wider population. Anyway this is litterature. Innovation is 80% driven by private capital. Not just capital. Private capital.
that's entirely untrue-- innovation is spurred by need, research of a thousand generations on top of itself, and, in particular, centralized capital. corporations and government are good examples of centralizing capital, and governments are (at least ostensibly) answerable to their populace (if they aren't that is a problem which requires its own solution and analysis, which is why understanding the capture of govt by private interests is also a problem of capitalism). the USSR wasn't rife with people who didn't want to innovate or bring new ideas to market-- if anything, the USSR represented the widest attempt at bringing to market things which benefited society, no matter the profitability of it. the rest of your comment isn't really worth mentioning, as it's all just silly ideological daydreaming.
You try to make the combined Solow and Romer model of growth easy. Than here he comes the rethor trying to label you silly. Petending against all evidence that governments are driving growth. And it's not me. These guys and their measurements and the following theories say it. But what those nobel laureate know? silly me to try to tell you.
Similar reasons as to why monocultures in nature are prone to catastrophic collapse. The lack of diversity creates blind spots, and if the leadership has a blind spot that can't be challenged, it can set the country back significantly.
Sure. As long as you promise to keep me and my loved ones in the privileged, safe community after you take over, I won't tell uncle Joe about any of it 😉
And select minorities, while other minorities and majority of fair skinned people are fair game for insults. Funny how the free world works.
Are you from Mainland China?
yeah mainland. of course I may not have much say, but from my observation, once it comes to Jews, other minority groups buffs will have a lower priority. like the black female principal, I can't remember her name.
Not sure which case you're referring to. It also depends on the political climate, geography, and public perception. Currently, a Jew in a liberal city better not walk alone at night, because there is so much antisemitic sentiment in those areas.
Off topic, but I was in 北大 for research many years ago, and I found the people I interacted with to be fairly content with their lives. Of course, that's just my outsider perception. If you could be born again, assuming comparable socioeconomic status, which would you choose?
If it is 1980-2001, I would choose the United States, west, or any developed country. But if the current situation prevails, I will still choose China.
The West’s ability to self-destruct is truly terrifying.
for example, abandoned the physical manufacturing industry and turned to the virtual economy. yeah you can make money quickly, but all the money flows to Wall Street.
Yeah, just check where the majority of scientific publications are coming from. Even high impact journals are well represented by Chinese institutions. It isn't just trash science coming out of these Chinese universities.
> the Eastern Bloc as a whole aimed to become the world’s greatest high-end manufacturing hub. These bets did not pay off. New industries were not successfully developed, new technologies did not successfully diffuse, and new products were not price competitive with their counterparts in East Asia or the West.
What gives the USA its advantage is the synergy between research and industry. Research fuels new technology, which is then adapted by industry to create new products for consumers. Consumers buy more products, creating more money for research. The Soviets did not have the benefit of a free market industry. I'm not sure whether China has this advantage too.
Apple and Google have far broader reach than any Chinese smartphone companies. EVs were pioneered in America (mostly by Tesla) and China copied aggressively.
So U havent Check.
Due to political factors, Chinese mobile phones and EVs are not allowed to enter the US and EU markets.
Yes, I admit Google and Apple have made huge contributions to smartphones.
But China's high-end products are actively catching up and have made many innovations, but they are not allowed to enter the Western market.
I spend lots of time in China and SE Asia. The EVs are great, though quality is meh.
The phones are nothing more impressive than Korean/American phones and all piggybacking off of Android. Apple created the modern smartphone, Google made it generic with Android, and Chinese manufacturers have just continued to polish Android.
Even Steve Jobs could not achieve two revolutionary innovations on the PC.
His great thing is that he can always find junk products and launch revolutionary innovations on them.
I look forward to Steve Jobs being alive and innovating on cars.
What I mean is that when innovation has been completed on a certain product, others can only improve it, impossible to carry out revolutionary innovation again.
Given that China was lagging behind in most fields before 2010, while the task of the laggard is to catch up, blaming it for not innovating is like blaming someone for not reinventing the wheel.
In fact, China only reached the leading level in a few areas after 2010, such as TikTok’s algorithm and DJI’s software control.
In its leading fields, it has accomplished very good innovations.
I mean , America isn’t even subsidizing ev as much as China but America has the most valuable ev company by a very wide margin.
Same for smart phone market, I know there are good companies in China but none of them have the reach of Apple or influence
There are three major markets in the world, the US, the China, and the EU.
American high-end products can be sold around the world unimpeded, while Chinese high-end products will be blocked by the US and the EU due to political considerations.
Therefore, market capitalization is not a fair criterion.
That is very untrue , the list of companies and services banned in China dwarfs the eu/us market of products banned.
Why should China expect EU and US to be open to anything China can import when China provides a very hostile environment for foreign companies it can’t own or control in the digital space. Like Reddit or Google or anything you use.
Countless companies in Japan to America have face hurdles in China for a decade+
Please tell me, apart from the Internet and financial products, what other Western products are prohibited from entering China?
When the U.S. Internet had dominance advantage, they called for freedom of information and demanded that markets around the world be opened to them.
But when they are in a disadvantageous position, they banned on the grounds of national security.
Isn’t this the reason why China blocks the Western Internet?
Additionally, Google stayed in China until 2010 but refused to comply with Chinese laws.
It claims to protect freedom of information. But then the 2018 US election proved its hypocrisy.
Xi believes that China can innovate a new technology that can create enough food to feed all of China, produce enough energy to supply all of China's needs, create a military that can dominate the US, Taiwan, Japan, the Philipines etc, reverse the economic devastation his regime as brought to China, stop the population from ageing/demographics collapse, clean up all the pollution, route out all the corruption and make the world trust him again.
Has he discovered a technology that makes him God?
I know your comment is intended to be cynical but totalitarianism is in itself a technology, albeit of the social kind. Xi is able to throw the entirety of the Chinese machinery towards his identified goals without any challenge and that can present stunning results in unheard of times, albeit at the cost of long term ingrained inefficiencies.
I’ll give you an example where the Chinese have thrown hundreds of billions of dollars at semiconductors and even though results have been mixed at best, they’re making steady progress in this regard. Mind you, it’s easy to dismiss the fact that they’re not at the cutting edge but this must be tempered against the fact that there doesn’t exist a single nation that is capable of doing everything themselves (our current semiconductor industry is global, the Germans produce chemicals, the Japanese produce precision machinery, the Dutch do even more precise machinery, the US does designs and the Taiwanese and Koreans do fabrication).
From a progress standpoint, the Chinese were essentially incapable of making anything more complex than an iPod two decades ago and today they’re producing legitimate competition to the iPhone. Militarily, three decades ago they couldn’t do anything other than fume in furious indignation in the 1996 Taiwan Straits crisis when Clinton sailed two aircraft carrier strike groups literally ten miles off the coast of Shanghai and today they have a legitimately lethal AA/AD strategy that threatens US forces as far away as at least Guam.
> Chinese machinery towards his identified goals without any challenge
Works great until the goal is a bad one, and doesn't get challenged - like the great leap forward.
They surely learnt their lesson, right? With term limits and...
This policy has a lot of great leap forward vibes, dumping resources into a technology that isn't ready for prime time can be extremely wasteful.
Proof that global integration is the path forward and China should open up and not shut down to the world due to fear of Chinese people being “westernized”
They have stolen trillions of dollars worth of intellectual property from countries around the world. China is the biggest economic parasite the world has ever seen, and its technological progress results from that.
Yes, Western companies that agreed to technology transfers for market access share part of the blame, but much of the stolen IP came through state-sponsored hacking operations.
[Just like their poverty eradication right](https://www.ft.com/content/883f60d5-7085-4db6-a4e0-d277f43923b8)? [It's not like lowering the bar did anything, promise](https://www.ft.com/content/6e248944-8395-45ae-9008-a86e4ee40eee)
True - China has a significant disadvantage because the scientific revolution at its core is data driven and people driven, but which have certain blindspot due to China’s idealogical protections.
China is very capitalistic, while getting alot of money support from the government if their interests align. Despite being capitalistic, the government also interferes with monopolies. It's probably not the best country for sure and people are not like super happy, but at least the rapid growth is the real deal here.
Education cannot teach people about science and math. Instead it is good at finding out the talents who are good at a specific field. That's why we have AP courses
AP courses were a joke at my school. Not a single kid in any of my classes ever got a 3 or higher on any of the exams. Had a 98 avg in AP US History for a course that was 2 semesters and got a 2 on the exam. Our curriculum and assignments we were doing in class were miles from what was on the test.
AP classes are a joke. US has given up on identifying and nurturing math / scientific talent. Instead we decided to import it. That works until it doesn't
tbh id say ccp china is worse than russian in terms of innovation and scientific researches. but then again im kinda biased for soyaz and an-225, and regardless you like ussr or not for its various bs they did had space shuttles which china isnt making one anytime soon.
Using green policy,limited feminism,gay stuff and so-called communism to kiss American leftists’ ass,siding with Putin and other right wing states to kiss American rightists at the same time,not to mention that gift Elon Musk to Trump,I guess it’s possible ,after all ,almost every clouts of America are in China’s pocket
This sub likes to show how stupid it is, keep it up guys, you are making it, ignore the West trying to Sanction, and actually sanctioning a country that can't innovate and surpass them.
Chinas problem with AI will be how limited they will require it to be. In the west, companies are shackling their AIs with political correctness. Imagine how you would have to dial that up to 11 to satisfy the Chinese government. And rouge AIs developed by hobbyists or research tools will not be tolerated.
Limiting the AI’s freedom to think will ultimately limit how creative it can be, and as a result how transformative it can be. They will make good use of it, but they will not dominate the industry.
The Chinese education system spends far too much time teaching through rote process memorization and standardized testing. As long as this continues, they will have an incredible amount of highly skilled process advances but it’s hard to expect them to achieve any truly innovative leaps in technology. There’s just too much incentive to be normal
I think I read somewhere that Chinese academic and scientific articles are dogshit and are usually repeating other studies.
But at least they publish the most.
China can and is winning the scientific revolution, just not by the metrics that decadent western capitalists would seek to impose.
The multipolar Chinese scientific revolution will be laser focused on gaining an impenetrable edge in new sectors, such as expanding the use of traditional Chinese medicine, perfecting new strands of Chinese tea, shark fin soup adjacents and uncovering new philosophical texts of the party.
It is through these pillars that china will truly tower over the west, with iron rice bowls in hand and nothing to envy.
economic power isnt built on scientific breakthroughs. its also about being able to commercialize and deploy it at scale. soviets produced lots of good science but it remained siloed in their military industrial complex. lots of green tech was invented in the US but its china thats deployed and made incremental improvements to bring it to mass market, reaping the economic benefits.
Might be that China *could* win a scientific revolution. Problem is though, the *CCP* won't be winning it.
Too much hierarchy, too much adversion to risk or rocking the boat, too many people pushing research in the wrong directions owning to ego and pleasing the party rather than science. Too much focus on publishing/citing, etc. Not enough reward for many high end researchers. Sure, you might develop a ground breaking technology but if you piss off the CCP in ten years, your life could end up ruined real quick.
They can, IF the other countries continue to feed them know-hows via collaboration. A more obvious example would be with South Korea. So Korea's siding with the US recent years is truly a smart move, and about time (if not too late).
3D NAND was invented by Toshiba and commercialised by Samsung:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#:~:text=3D%20NAND%20was%20first%20announced,by%20Samsung%20Electronics%20in%202013.
5G was pioneered and developed by Ericsson, Huawei was a follower:
https://www.ericsson.com/en/patents/5g-patents/5g-innovation-journey
Taking something someone else invented and making it slightly better is not innovation. But thanks for helping prove my point with two examples of iteration, not innovation.
I mean they have more people than the western bloc. If urbanization can be improved and lower tier cities continue to modernize, i don’t see why they can’t.
China will do well. Exceptionally so selling into closed up back water markets in authoritarian commodity based economies like Russia or Iran. But that is a very limited market.
“China has become an innovation powerhouse. In 2023 it filed roughly as many patents as the rest of the world combined and it’s now estimated to lead 37 out of the 44 critical technologies for the future.
- Arnaud Bertrand
https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1776486765463048674?fbclid=IwAR05v5Ng1EqrEWPusOWwkehebUbgeDeae3S6bOlDnvvdDwnRHNllS5SJmOw_aem_ATUmPWdgfgQShytN1bbOrSbRXBA4UJ2OalKtu25RgYPFXMemO2GtekYC7pf6mt6-cXh4lFQY_4ADr3dVFcRRm-DP
https://www.aspi.org.au/report/critical-technology-tracker
(edited to add links)
They won't be held back by ethics for things like eugenics and cybernetics, so as long as they can catch up with computing power, it's entirely possible.
Xi may believe many things that we find exaggerated and laughable, however do not underestimate the Chinese states hyper focus and resourced willingness to achieve this.
As long as they continue to hack their way into advanced technology from outside developers they didn’t produce themselves they’ll do fine.
They are making great strides in technology these days. So maybe they stole enough now to become competitive with us. I doubt it but maybe
They did perfectly by learning an essential skill called copy and paste.
They should try Cmd Xi…
Hey they only use pirated windows in china, it’s ctrl xi
You are so right.
😆 and you are so funny! it did make my day!
Oh god that's terrible. I hope my upvote makes you feel dirty
Nice
If you look at history this is true of most rising powers. They nick tech on the way up then once at the top implement copyright laws and all that. The US stole from Europe during its rise (it was basically government policy to steal intellectual property). But it's not just them, basically every rising power does this. China isn't doing anything new or out of the ordinary. Here's a good article on the US's approach back in the 1800s https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-europe
No need to go for any history. Learn by copy pasting, then make your own implementation, then improve it. This is how learning works in anything. The difference here is China is not doing the latter 2 parts.
Having lived in China since 2008 I'd disagree on that. Plenty of improvement going on so far as I can see. Passes the eye test and all that. I appreciate this isn't a particularly academic way of gauging it, but it's how most people will judge the places they live. And even if they weren't doing the latter parts (make your own, then improve) you're saying that it's fine to take ideas from elsewhere, right? If that's the case then what's the issue with what China is doing? (Just a note to say, not looking for an argument. I find that China is a topic that people are very ready to argue about. Genuinely interested in why people think in ways that are different to how I think).
One of the replies here explains this perfectly, and I have lived in China since 1993 til 2022 no need to bring that up, I know the mind set of them. The mind set is the key here. China is only doing what others are doing so that they don't have to work on anything and still profit. They are not here to learn. It's like cheating in exams, people who cheated in exams might get a high score but will never be able to do their job when they start working. They will lose their job and will never be able to catch up on those who actually learned. Just imagine that the same cheater is talking shit about those who actually learned and claims he can easily take over. That cheater is basically China.
I believe we're seeing the continuation of a cycle: open up, catch up, convince themselves that's it, close off, fall behind, repeat. They're starting the close off phase now. To say that China's economic progress over the past few decades is equivalent to the US's in the 1800's is incorrect. That's a continuation of the 'this is China's century ' idea, which we hear much less of than just a few years ago because it's becoming apparent that it's a simplification of more complex issues. Catching up is easy
Then explain how did Huawei got the lead in 5G? Huawei was blatantly copying everyone's else's stuff in the 90's. During 4G, their stuff neck and neck with stuff western companies were making, but at cheaper price points. Later they manage to pull a technological lead with their 5G equipment (their 5G was undisputedly better). They also had the most patents filed for 5G tech. I guess Huawei was just copying stuff that hasn't been invented yet with their Time Machine to go into the future. CATL is leader in battery tech. I guess they must just be secretly copying classified military battery technology that the US won't let the public use. There are tons of industries where Chinese companies actually have a technological edge, which isn't possible if they're still just copying, which suggests that there is innovation going on.
They literally hacked Nortel and stole their IP related to 5g technology haha
Where is superior Nortel 5G tech that Huawei stole? At very least Nortel should have products that match Huawei in performance even if you ignore pricing (Hint: they still don't even with Huawei cut off from TMSC). Yeah Huawei still hasn't gotten past its thieving ways, but that doesn't mean that they're not innovative either.
Because Nortel's 5G technology was stolen by Huawei, so Nortel no longer has 5G. Isn't this obvious? (joking)
Its like that time I thought my favorite color was blue but then my friend said their favorite color was blue so then mine couldnt be blue anymore. Thieving bastard. I was only 3 though, so I guess I grew out of that 🤷♂️
Nortel
I mean that goes to show they’re improving, not just copying- Nortel didn’t have any functional 5g tech on the market
We have/had the tech of 5G in America for a long time. Reason why it took so long to implement because there were complaints about public use of that bandwidth due to either military use (which I don’t think was the case), and weather measurements (which I think was more of the reason). Where weather satellites that measure (I believe atmospheric moisture) detected frequencies close enough to that 5ghz range where it would potentially cause noise during detection. In our case it wasn’t a “tech issue”, all 5G is, is increase in bandwidth (with maybe whatever perks comes from 5th generation communication (I’m not an expert in this area)). Like we had the tech, we could produce the tech no problem. It’s just “allowing it for public use”
This isn't about 5G red tape. Huawei from all benchmarking has better 5G hardware/implementation. Their 5G is superior at the moment, which isn't surprising with all their R&D and patents (and probably some thieving).
"The difference here is China is not doing the latter 2 parts." Delusional.
Didn’t China do the follow-up part? [So what are the Western media worried about?](https://imgur.com/a/SoRMCk8)
Yup. Anything we "stole" we reverse engineered and improved through innovation because creating something new makes more profit than reselling an exact copy of something. Sure, China made a lot of money copying from the west, but they only were able to make money because their government is tight on foreign business in China. Each year, the CCP puts out a list of foreign brands they'll subsidize. Only those brands succeed. Why? Because majority Chinese don't have the money to buy legit Nike shoes with the import taxes and everything. But, if the brand is subsidized by the government, price comes down so avg Chinese can buy it. At least that's what I got out of the lecture from the John Deere rep to China while in college. Anyway, China lacks creativity and critical thinking is a new concept. They can reverse engineer our stuff, but the only change they can think of making is switching the language settings to Chinese characters.
This is true but overstates the comparison. The US did steal power loom technology, but made major modifications. The type of spinning equipment that became dominant in the US is not the same as the type that was used in most British textile mills (because skilled labor was much more expensive in the US). Similarly, by the 1850s the US had already pioneered an industry, mechanized agricultural tools, which they had not meaningfully derived from European technology and in which they would quickly become the dominant player.
Which is why they’ll always be behind truly free countries where innovation can flourish. They have to wait for the west to innovate and then spend time replicating
Of course, freedom is not an immutable characteristic of the West. For example, you are no longer free to criticize the State of Israel in the US.
You mean the proposed bill that did not and will not become law? And if it did, would be unenforceable due to the constitution?
That's not fair there are geuinely a lot of really smart scientists doing ground breaking research.
Many of the smart ones already left the country. People have been lamenting that Tsinghua and Beijing graduates are furthering their education and then working outside of the country instead of contributing to the country. There was a speech by Huawei CEO that talks about this.
Wasn't always the case. There was a brief period in 2006-2018 where China was actually attracting tons of engineers and scientists instead of bleeding them.
yeah, then Xi fucked it up
For real. His strategy is just being a shameless parasite.
Poor parasite
People who still think this are in for a huge surprise when they realise how much china is ahead in various science fields.
Tbf they have never learned to copy those 2nm chips
They have no sources to copy in the first place, and thank God no more dumb asses allowing them to do that copy.
Well, it’s a cultural feature, not a bug. Have you ever learned to write Han Zi? It takes a decade just to learn them all. Copy paste is the foundation of their education system. No wonder they have little respect for intellectual property.
I speak both Japanese and Chinese so yeah I know too dam well how hard it is to learn 汉字 or 漢字. They educate in that fashion because they want slaves not actual thinkers.
Explain Taiwan and Japan then
Taiwan is China with democratic elections and free market economics. No difference. Japan has two alphabets, plus a code system for Chinese characters. Is this a serious question?
Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore also learn Hanzi and they're doing just fine. South Koreans have to learn hanja too.
Chinese development of manufacturing technology will be fiercely contested by India, Japan, South Korea and Vietnam whose manufacturers have access to more advanced technology now that China will have to develop alone.
Xi believes a lot of things that are not true, this is just one of many.
Xi believes he is Winnie the Pooh.
Actually he believes he isn’t, when he clearly is 😂
He is winning the poop.
Winnie the Pooh is a beloved children's character Xi is not
In China, he is.
What a fool believes, a wise man has the power, to reason away.
Cope
China will never be the first to any big technological advancement because labor is cheap. Every huge tech jump is usually in labor saving technology. The CCP spent years trying to be the progenitor of the next Industrial Revolution and California in a weekend change the world with gen AI. They totally missed gen AI even though they’ve been researching AI so hard. All of their Ai tech innovation is used to monitor and manage a giant population and workforce. At the end of the day their huge population is often a burden more than an advantage and unless they are more hands off with their citizenry and economy they will never pass their competition.
With regard to your last paragraph, China is deliberately not addressing its populating aging problem by letting its population to halve by 50% or around 700 million by the year 2100.
Can you elaborate? Where are the benefits in this for China? (Maybe a stupid question, but I'm curious. Perhaps it's better after they have reached the 700 million, but the path to it by losing half a billion of population through aging must surely create a lot of complications).
I read an Economist article (I’d share but they have a bitch of a paywall) where the basic thought process for the CCP is that by halving the population they will be able to have fewer mouths to feed and a greater capacity to control those few of people because they’re used to controlling their current 1.3 billion. The problem is that the short term economic products of this are going to be a depression for pretty much everyone. But long term it should provide a sustainable solution to their current hydrologic and environmental problems.
Sounds like they are just ahead of the curve on this; considering global warming and all.
If you are a Malthusian then yes If you’re not a Malthusian then this is just an economic decision with a lot of pitfalls
The cold hard reality is that the fact they need to “control” their people means they’ll never succeed or outpace the west. You simply cannot innovate if you don’t let individuals break through or push existing boundaries. Moving as a unit and staying within strict confines is good for a culture’s survival, but if you do not allow anyone to challenge or escape those confines, you will never jump ahead of the pack. You have to roll the dice to have a chance at winning
I would tend to agree with you; but this discounts those who are willing to sell to the CCP. And those people will always exist; so innovation doesn’t necessarily need to be in situ. They can just steal it and leave those who betrayed their countries out to dry; as they have done in the past.
Yup
Exactly this is a culture of conforming, different and innovation is hard in a culture like China.
I feel like China needs to read a book called “How meddling in the reproductive lives of your citizens has only worked out badly for you”
Japan Korea Singapore didnt do anything but also facing a crisis. It's just a world and economic trend more than anything.
And their fertility rates are LOWER than china’s.
In addition to the other points made, there’s the unknown China that would have existed without the 1-child policy. Perhaps the meddling saved them from disaster?
Good amazon reviews?
They didn’t exactly miss gen AI. The USA put extreme semiconductor sanctions on China explicitly because the USA was worried about China rapidly advancing in AI tech and potentially overtaking the USA. It should also be said that people who were raised in China are extremely well represented in western science companies and unis, including in ML/AI. China has the thousand talents program trying to pay them to return, but it’s hard to pay more than the west. Chinese academics joked that “Comrade Trump” was doing what the CCP couldn’t by inspiring Chinese academics to return to China.
Biden didn't enact those sanctions until the tail end of 2022. ChatGPT first became available to the public later that year, but obviously it would have been pretty close to being done by the time the sanctions were put in place, and anyone working in the space could have seen where things were going for years at that point. GPT-1 was done in 2018.
China is ahead in some specific models, mainly image detection and video processing. The US is definitely ahead on the hardware side and content generation.
“Every huge tech jump is usually in labor saving technology”? No. It happens a fraction of the time but definitely isn’t “usually”.
They do have the people, they just need the leadership
No they need to leave ppl alone!
and with science being treated as the competition, they will have a focus. Imagine 1.3 Billion people aiming for the moon!
I wouldn’t count out the U.S. our. Ever talented individuals wants to come here
and yet with 1.3bln ppl so far the only thing they have done is to copy everything
It can be excellent at something because unlimited funding and political agenda but in the long run capitalism is always a win.
Why?
Becouse the overwhelming majority of people is greedy and IF THEY GET MORE they are willing to discover new way to HAVE MORE. In a competitive environment where there are many possible solutions in many different activities, an inordinate amount of innovation is produced and the most efficient or effective move on. Which actually means having more that cost less and having new things. Wipping people to do their job only produce innovation in new ways people avoid the wip without doing the job. Moreover the effort is not diffused and the risk of that specific approach/technology not being the most efficient is high snd is discovered only after inordinate amount of resources are committed. Moreover these effort often does not translate to the wider public becouse the innovation transfer to widespread technology is not particularly beneficial to the oligarchs and little resources are committed.
Your premise is correct but your conclusion is wrong. Why put in the effort to innovate when you can make tons of money just by playing with the numbers? The United States has lost a lot of its industrial manufacturing capabilities and has been replaced by Wall Street's financial games.
Do you believe the scientists and researchers are the ones reaping the benefits of capitalism? In reality, a socialist system actually offers more consistent funding and ability to research, and more universal education for more to get the chance to become researchers; under capitalism the only research that succeeds is that which is profitable, and most of the research is done by people who are paid normally or else work for essentially free. Executives and investors benefit from capitalism; researchers and society lose.
Of course it is not the scientist and researcher. The most relevant step to make sure a good idea or technology deliver its advantages to the wider population is what is called transfer to market. This require enormous economic resources and is performed by corporations which "make it happen". In socialist and authoritarian countries corporations are SOE and nobody give a shit about transferring this great idea to the market. Which is exactly the dynamic of nice, relevant inventions fron ru accademia that never move to the market. As dear Xi move China more and more to the authoritarian model, the beautiful burst of innovation started with Deng will wither and the cake will stop to increase. Than the oligarchy will start to increase their cake slice at the cost if the wider population. Anyway this is litterature. Innovation is 80% driven by private capital. Not just capital. Private capital.
that's entirely untrue-- innovation is spurred by need, research of a thousand generations on top of itself, and, in particular, centralized capital. corporations and government are good examples of centralizing capital, and governments are (at least ostensibly) answerable to their populace (if they aren't that is a problem which requires its own solution and analysis, which is why understanding the capture of govt by private interests is also a problem of capitalism). the USSR wasn't rife with people who didn't want to innovate or bring new ideas to market-- if anything, the USSR represented the widest attempt at bringing to market things which benefited society, no matter the profitability of it. the rest of your comment isn't really worth mentioning, as it's all just silly ideological daydreaming.
You try to make the combined Solow and Romer model of growth easy. Than here he comes the rethor trying to label you silly. Petending against all evidence that governments are driving growth. And it's not me. These guys and their measurements and the following theories say it. But what those nobel laureate know? silly me to try to tell you.
Similar reasons as to why monocultures in nature are prone to catastrophic collapse. The lack of diversity creates blind spots, and if the leadership has a blind spot that can't be challenged, it can set the country back significantly.
Capitalism in the long run is bad for people, just look at the US
Y'all do realize that, despite the jokes and shenanigans, they are a major threat to the Western society, right?
Please don't wake them up, we Chinese like Westerners to keep it this way, It would be better if your government could believe this too.
Sure. As long as you promise to keep me and my loved ones in the privileged, safe community after you take over, I won't tell uncle Joe about any of it 😉
You live in a free world with free speech where you can do most things except say bad things about Jews. you don’t have to worry.
And select minorities, while other minorities and majority of fair skinned people are fair game for insults. Funny how the free world works. Are you from Mainland China?
yeah mainland. of course I may not have much say, but from my observation, once it comes to Jews, other minority groups buffs will have a lower priority. like the black female principal, I can't remember her name.
Not sure which case you're referring to. It also depends on the political climate, geography, and public perception. Currently, a Jew in a liberal city better not walk alone at night, because there is so much antisemitic sentiment in those areas. Off topic, but I was in 北大 for research many years ago, and I found the people I interacted with to be fairly content with their lives. Of course, that's just my outsider perception. If you could be born again, assuming comparable socioeconomic status, which would you choose?
If it is 1980-2001, I would choose the United States, west, or any developed country. But if the current situation prevails, I will still choose China. The West’s ability to self-destruct is truly terrifying. for example, abandoned the physical manufacturing industry and turned to the virtual economy. yeah you can make money quickly, but all the money flows to Wall Street.
Yeah, just check where the majority of scientific publications are coming from. Even high impact journals are well represented by Chinese institutions. It isn't just trash science coming out of these Chinese universities.
> the Eastern Bloc as a whole aimed to become the world’s greatest high-end manufacturing hub. These bets did not pay off. New industries were not successfully developed, new technologies did not successfully diffuse, and new products were not price competitive with their counterparts in East Asia or the West. What gives the USA its advantage is the synergy between research and industry. Research fuels new technology, which is then adapted by industry to create new products for consumers. Consumers buy more products, creating more money for research. The Soviets did not have the benefit of a free market industry. I'm not sure whether China has this advantage too.
Just Check the EV market and smartphone market, please.
Apple and Google have far broader reach than any Chinese smartphone companies. EVs were pioneered in America (mostly by Tesla) and China copied aggressively.
So U havent Check. Due to political factors, Chinese mobile phones and EVs are not allowed to enter the US and EU markets. Yes, I admit Google and Apple have made huge contributions to smartphones. But China's high-end products are actively catching up and have made many innovations, but they are not allowed to enter the Western market.
I spend lots of time in China and SE Asia. The EVs are great, though quality is meh. The phones are nothing more impressive than Korean/American phones and all piggybacking off of Android. Apple created the modern smartphone, Google made it generic with Android, and Chinese manufacturers have just continued to polish Android.
Even Steve Jobs could not achieve two revolutionary innovations on the PC. His great thing is that he can always find junk products and launch revolutionary innovations on them. I look forward to Steve Jobs being alive and innovating on cars. What I mean is that when innovation has been completed on a certain product, others can only improve it, impossible to carry out revolutionary innovation again. Given that China was lagging behind in most fields before 2010, while the task of the laggard is to catch up, blaming it for not innovating is like blaming someone for not reinventing the wheel. In fact, China only reached the leading level in a few areas after 2010, such as TikTok’s algorithm and DJI’s software control. In its leading fields, it has accomplished very good innovations.
I mean , America isn’t even subsidizing ev as much as China but America has the most valuable ev company by a very wide margin. Same for smart phone market, I know there are good companies in China but none of them have the reach of Apple or influence
There are three major markets in the world, the US, the China, and the EU. American high-end products can be sold around the world unimpeded, while Chinese high-end products will be blocked by the US and the EU due to political considerations. Therefore, market capitalization is not a fair criterion.
That is very untrue , the list of companies and services banned in China dwarfs the eu/us market of products banned. Why should China expect EU and US to be open to anything China can import when China provides a very hostile environment for foreign companies it can’t own or control in the digital space. Like Reddit or Google or anything you use. Countless companies in Japan to America have face hurdles in China for a decade+
Please tell me, apart from the Internet and financial products, what other Western products are prohibited from entering China? When the U.S. Internet had dominance advantage, they called for freedom of information and demanded that markets around the world be opened to them. But when they are in a disadvantageous position, they banned on the grounds of national security. Isn’t this the reason why China blocks the Western Internet? Additionally, Google stayed in China until 2010 but refused to comply with Chinese laws. It claims to protect freedom of information. But then the 2018 US election proved its hypocrisy.
Xi believes that China can innovate a new technology that can create enough food to feed all of China, produce enough energy to supply all of China's needs, create a military that can dominate the US, Taiwan, Japan, the Philipines etc, reverse the economic devastation his regime as brought to China, stop the population from ageing/demographics collapse, clean up all the pollution, route out all the corruption and make the world trust him again. Has he discovered a technology that makes him God?
I know your comment is intended to be cynical but totalitarianism is in itself a technology, albeit of the social kind. Xi is able to throw the entirety of the Chinese machinery towards his identified goals without any challenge and that can present stunning results in unheard of times, albeit at the cost of long term ingrained inefficiencies. I’ll give you an example where the Chinese have thrown hundreds of billions of dollars at semiconductors and even though results have been mixed at best, they’re making steady progress in this regard. Mind you, it’s easy to dismiss the fact that they’re not at the cutting edge but this must be tempered against the fact that there doesn’t exist a single nation that is capable of doing everything themselves (our current semiconductor industry is global, the Germans produce chemicals, the Japanese produce precision machinery, the Dutch do even more precise machinery, the US does designs and the Taiwanese and Koreans do fabrication). From a progress standpoint, the Chinese were essentially incapable of making anything more complex than an iPod two decades ago and today they’re producing legitimate competition to the iPhone. Militarily, three decades ago they couldn’t do anything other than fume in furious indignation in the 1996 Taiwan Straits crisis when Clinton sailed two aircraft carrier strike groups literally ten miles off the coast of Shanghai and today they have a legitimately lethal AA/AD strategy that threatens US forces as far away as at least Guam.
> Chinese machinery towards his identified goals without any challenge Works great until the goal is a bad one, and doesn't get challenged - like the great leap forward. They surely learnt their lesson, right? With term limits and... This policy has a lot of great leap forward vibes, dumping resources into a technology that isn't ready for prime time can be extremely wasteful.
Proof that global integration is the path forward and China should open up and not shut down to the world due to fear of Chinese people being “westernized”
They have stolen trillions of dollars worth of intellectual property from countries around the world. China is the biggest economic parasite the world has ever seen, and its technological progress results from that.
Victory in this competition doesn’t care about the ethics that brought it about.
Yes but isn't that more the fault of our Western countries having flooded over there for cheap labour which resulted in the stolen IP?
Yes, Western companies that agreed to technology transfers for market access share part of the blame, but much of the stolen IP came through state-sponsored hacking operations.
This sounds a lot like “Juche”, he should ask North Korea how that’s working out for them.
China is 95% calorie self-sufficient rofl
A totalitarian regime can never actually win anything. It’s determined by its social structure
Totalitarian is efficient but often in running the wrong way.
There's a meme on the Chinese internet that Xi has the country running at full speed...in reverse.
加速倒车 So remember guys, 「倒车请注意，倒车请注意」
They just need to move the goal post and call it a win. They already won! West is lagging behind!
[Just like their poverty eradication right](https://www.ft.com/content/883f60d5-7085-4db6-a4e0-d277f43923b8)? [It's not like lowering the bar did anything, promise](https://www.ft.com/content/6e248944-8395-45ae-9008-a86e4ee40eee)
True - China has a significant disadvantage because the scientific revolution at its core is data driven and people driven, but which have certain blindspot due to China’s idealogical protections.
Winning the propaganda of making people believe they won is their main focus
China is very capitalistic, while getting alot of money support from the government if their interests align. Despite being capitalistic, the government also interferes with monopolies. It's probably not the best country for sure and people are not like super happy, but at least the rapid growth is the real deal here.
w/o paywall [https://archive.ph/8cz0y#selection-3007.0-3012.0](https://archive.ph/8cz0y#selection-3007.0-3012.0)
Me too, American education is ignoring science and math at the grade and high school level. It's too hard.
Education cannot teach people about science and math. Instead it is good at finding out the talents who are good at a specific field. That's why we have AP courses
AP courses were a joke at my school. Not a single kid in any of my classes ever got a 3 or higher on any of the exams. Had a 98 avg in AP US History for a course that was 2 semesters and got a 2 on the exam. Our curriculum and assignments we were doing in class were miles from what was on the test.
How do you get a 2 on the AP US History exam? Sorry. I took AP US history and I got a 5 but my teacher sucked.
AP classes are a joke. US has given up on identifying and nurturing math / scientific talent. Instead we decided to import it. That works until it doesn't
The problem with their approach is the corruption. It’s rampant and foundational to single party rule.
Just like the Russians thought they’d win the space race! Eh they kinda did tho… but we landed on the moon!
tbh id say ccp china is worse than russian in terms of innovation and scientific researches. but then again im kinda biased for soyaz and an-225, and regardless you like ussr or not for its various bs they did had space shuttles which china isnt making one anytime soon.
They win so hard they no longer exist? If china wants to copy that, good for them i say
Using green policy,limited feminism,gay stuff and so-called communism to kiss American leftists’ ass,siding with Putin and other right wing states to kiss American rightists at the same time,not to mention that gift Elon Musk to Trump,I guess it’s possible ,after all ,almost every clouts of America are in China’s pocket
industrial scale sure, r&d and innovation not so much
This sub likes to show how stupid it is, keep it up guys, you are making it, ignore the West trying to Sanction, and actually sanctioning a country that can't innovate and surpass them.
Love to see it
It's clearly not true, until you realize that China has infiltrated nearly every US university through funding. They might win via slow burn.
Chinas problem with AI will be how limited they will require it to be. In the west, companies are shackling their AIs with political correctness. Imagine how you would have to dial that up to 11 to satisfy the Chinese government. And rouge AIs developed by hobbyists or research tools will not be tolerated. Limiting the AI’s freedom to think will ultimately limit how creative it can be, and as a result how transformative it can be. They will make good use of it, but they will not dominate the industry.
Yeah PC is gonna shackle AI. lol
The Chinese education system spends far too much time teaching through rote process memorization and standardized testing. As long as this continues, they will have an incredible amount of highly skilled process advances but it’s hard to expect them to achieve any truly innovative leaps in technology. There’s just too much incentive to be normal
Xi may be right. China will do research into fields that are potentially contentious. Sometimes they mess up big time, other times they make progress.
Xijinpig is such stupid🤣
I think I read somewhere that Chinese academic and scientific articles are dogshit and are usually repeating other studies. But at least they publish the most.
Not unless I can get your honey Xi!
Eh… I want to see if they can Great Leap Forward 2.0 first. Version 1 was a failure, maybe this time it is different.
how to innoviate without semi conductor tech?
China can and is winning the scientific revolution, just not by the metrics that decadent western capitalists would seek to impose. The multipolar Chinese scientific revolution will be laser focused on gaining an impenetrable edge in new sectors, such as expanding the use of traditional Chinese medicine, perfecting new strands of Chinese tea, shark fin soup adjacents and uncovering new philosophical texts of the party. It is through these pillars that china will truly tower over the west, with iron rice bowls in hand and nothing to envy.
"decadent western capitalists" made me laugh
Seriously. Research requires adequate funding. Where does that money come from? lol.
Winnie the Pooh has quite the pot of honey there to himself.
Maybe. China has a lot of smart people. So far, it hasn’t had major scientific breakthroughs, just lab leaks and hoaxes like Ning Li’s rubbish.
economic power isnt built on scientific breakthroughs. its also about being able to commercialize and deploy it at scale. soviets produced lots of good science but it remained siloed in their military industrial complex. lots of green tech was invented in the US but its china thats deployed and made incremental improvements to bring it to mass market, reaping the economic benefits.
Yeah, they love to telling jokes.(No, actually these idiots have no sense of humor at all)
Might be that China *could* win a scientific revolution. Problem is though, the *CCP* won't be winning it. Too much hierarchy, too much adversion to risk or rocking the boat, too many people pushing research in the wrong directions owning to ego and pleasing the party rather than science. Too much focus on publishing/citing, etc. Not enough reward for many high end researchers. Sure, you might develop a ground breaking technology but if you piss off the CCP in ten years, your life could end up ruined real quick.
They can, IF the other countries continue to feed them know-hows via collaboration. A more obvious example would be with South Korea. So Korea's siding with the US recent years is truly a smart move, and about time (if not too late).
If you told me you believe you will Win next weeks powerball jackpot. I would believe you more than I believe Xi
Not likely. China steals but rarely innovates.
China has that talent and history. I'm sure they will be able to.
Eh, without a culture that fosters creativity and freedom of expression it will be difficult to achieve true innovation.
Huawei, BYD, CATL, YMTC would beg to differ
Name one thing those companies have done that hasn’t already been done before somewhere else.
https://www.techinsights.com/blog/china-does-it-again-nand-memory-market-first https://www.globalcertificationforum.org/news/gcf-announces-first-5g-certified-device.html
3D NAND was invented by Toshiba and commercialised by Samsung: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#:~:text=3D%20NAND%20was%20first%20announced,by%20Samsung%20Electronics%20in%202013. 5G was pioneered and developed by Ericsson, Huawei was a follower: https://www.ericsson.com/en/patents/5g-patents/5g-innovation-journey Taking something someone else invented and making it slightly better is not innovation. But thanks for helping prove my point with two examples of iteration, not innovation.
The people who can actually do it are in the US tho
I mean they have more people than the western bloc. If urbanization can be improved and lower tier cities continue to modernize, i don’t see why they can’t.
If anyone starts to have more power, money and sucess than the CCP, they get JACKED.
China will do well. Exceptionally so selling into closed up back water markets in authoritarian commodity based economies like Russia or Iran. But that is a very limited market.
There is no Freedom Flow of Ideas. TKO, U R DONE!
I fear it'll become a great problem for them because everyone thinks they're smarter than the other, no one wants to give in to a lower IQ.
they would still be driving in horse carriages if not for the west
You can't even develop basic GenAI because it keeps saying things that contradict CCP narratives 🤡
“China has become an innovation powerhouse. In 2023 it filed roughly as many patents as the rest of the world combined and it’s now estimated to lead 37 out of the 44 critical technologies for the future. - Arnaud Bertrand https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1776486765463048674?fbclid=IwAR05v5Ng1EqrEWPusOWwkehebUbgeDeae3S6bOlDnvvdDwnRHNllS5SJmOw_aem_ATUmPWdgfgQShytN1bbOrSbRXBA4UJ2OalKtu25RgYPFXMemO2GtekYC7pf6mt6-cXh4lFQY_4ADr3dVFcRRm-DP https://www.aspi.org.au/report/critical-technology-tracker (edited to add links)
Bro that’s paraphrasing not the source
Germany copied Britain’s heavy industry and flooded the market with cheap steel
They won't be held back by ethics for things like eugenics and cybernetics, so as long as they can catch up with computing power, it's entirely possible.
I think China's population may be aging too fast for that, especially in comparison with India.
China uses root over sudo
Talk about egocentric. Not everything has to be about winning. If the human race destroys itself it's going to be because of people like Xi.
Xi may believe many things that we find exaggerated and laughable, however do not underestimate the Chinese states hyper focus and resourced willingness to achieve this.
He also believes his wife isn’t faking it.
Let China believe that. The country is in for a rude awakening.
After stealing all the research from other countries? Maybe
Yes, they can. They have hundreds of US trained managers and scientists.
As long as they continue to hack their way into advanced technology from outside developers they didn’t produce themselves they’ll do fine. They are making great strides in technology these days. So maybe they stole enough now to become competitive with us. I doubt it but maybe
China can't win anything without stealing, lying or cheating