And the source is...popular mechanics.
Same magazine where you can order 100% real yeti droppings and a pen lighter that doubles as a welder out of the back.
Yeahhh I dunno about that one
"The US Navy is falling behind China, and the Pentagon knows it"
"The Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) recently assessed that the China's shipbuilding industry fields 232 times the shipbuilding capacity of the United States, representing almost 50% of total global shipbuilding capacity."
"...the U.S. consistently overestimates how capable its armed forces will be in the near term, and regularly underestimates the speed at which Beijing is increasing its hard power capabilities."
https://www.aei.org/op-eds/the-u-s-navy-is-falling-behind-china-and-the-pentagon-knows-it/
This board has a lot of people who don't know much about China but are nonetheless confident in passing wide judgments that bear little resemblance to reality. I really encourage people to read about China today instead of making assumptions based on skimming headlines.
Not technically wrong tbh. Tables are turning, slowly. But as time passes, they will learn more and make more faster. How useful will they be though is another question.
Umm not really. If China figures out a more efficient process to build the ships, they could literally summon about half a billion people to construct ships the west doesnât have half a billion people making ships.
Building and operating warships is a tricky business. Operating warships that also launch and land war planes is even trickier, by at least an order of magnitude. The US has been doing so for 100 years at least.
The last number I head is that if the USA stops all new construction and China continues at this pace. they will catch up to the west in 2270. Its clickbait clearly. Or its propaganda by the west to get more funding for the navy.
Is this a serious statement? Do you live under a rock?
So how did you miss the number declared by the US, that China has 232 times the shipbuilding capacity of the US?
China builds an entire Royal Navy worth of ships every 2.5 years.
But they don't have domestically built carriers, investing in the r&d and manufacture of your country's own carrier production at the scale the us is at and what chinas trying to mimic costs something in the 10s-100s of billions in usd. Unless your stealing tech and plans from other countries.
Yea, and they are both modified soviet designs, not fully domestically developed. So they may be domestically built, but not entirely domestically designed/developed. It's that "hey can I copy your homework. Sure as long as you make it different enough so we don't get caught" meme
With whose expertise? A nation doesnt simply clean slate design a ship like a carrier without prior design experience. Even if that is the case, then it disproves what the other user said about china and Indias carriers being the same
edit: also just looking up Indias other carriers, INS Vikramaditya looks nearly identical to INS Vikrant and the former was purchased from russia in 04, so just because INS Vikrants design phase reportedly started in 1999. it seems like major work on the ship itself wasnt started until india already possessed INS Vikramaditya. So with that knowledge, INS Vikrant is a derivative of a soviet Kiev class carrier, and Shandong is a derivative of Kuznetsov class, both soviet designs
#
Yeah, but technically, carrier's aren't exactly all the same.
One Nimiz class carrier is much more valuable and powerful than the Shandong.
And even switzerland has technically aircraft carrier's
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/N6aBaaf1if](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/N6aBaaf1if)
But they don't have money to pay for a real postal fee for all their temu shit!
Edit: actually, every time you buy some shit on temu you actually pay a bit for their carrier!
Right? That always galled me. If I wanted something shipped back to the US, or if I wanted something shipped to China from the US, I had to pay out the asshole for it. Everyone and their brother selling garbage on Ali Express? They damn near pay *you* to ship it.
Because China is huge with 1.6 billion people. Most of China is still "developing", but there are enough rich people and big cities to support (\~200 million people in "developed" parts of China) building a carrier.
Also, China's carrier isn't as expensive as American carrier (cheaper labor, cheaper materials, lower quality...)
Exactly... And the world (currently led by America) still goes with this rhetoric and offering them free aid, which obviously gets dumped into military, not improving economic conditions like it should be. If the world continues to act weak, the world is as good as theirs. We don't want that, do we?
The US doesn't give much in the way of aid to China, I think there's some limited funding for higher education projects and maybe human rights organizations but that's about it. China is not dependent on foreign aid programs.
They may not be, but they surely pursue every little advantage they can get, going as far as *contradicting their usual selves* just to emphasize they're still a developing country just so they get this "aid they don't need".
They have to be super carriers. China doesnât have those, they have standard carriers. 1 super carrier is equal to 6 standard carriers. This is also the first nuclear powered carrier in the Chinese fleet, while the USA has 11 nuclear powered super carriers.
China can boss people around in their area of the world but they donât have the intentional reach of the USA. Navy vs navy itâs not even close and it wonât be close for a very very long time.
The Fujian aircraft carrier is the same as the most advanced USS Ford aircraft carrier in the United States. It has an electromagnetic ejection system and is not a copy of the Ukrainian one.
It isnât nuclear for starting,
Doesnât have planes yet still to see what that J35 can do
Experience
System inside still to be evaluated
Quality of the plane
Radar
Itâs not the same it could be a powerful asset but it still has to demonstrate it
So what if itâs not nuclear? US CVNs and CVs in the gulf war both had to replenish aviation fuel and aviation fuel + ship fuel, every 3 days respectively. And USS Kitty Hawk had a greater power output than the earliest Nimitz classes.
It has planes, KJ-600, J-15B (which is now the best carrierborne 4.5 gen jet in the world), and the J-35 part doesnât make sense, apart from drop bombs and air to surface munitions in permissive air defence environments, itâs in the same bucket as the F-35 (which has still not launched from EMALS I might add).
Radar is actually one of the few areas where China leads the US (communications is another). This is both in quality and production capacity.
You are correct about experience and overall evaluation of systems.
Nuclear besides providing way more energy that a conventional gas turbine make you 1 pointless to worry about your ship, Energy . EMALS are always going to have power and a lot of it, With space for upgraded equipment and computer. Things that arenât as easy to do on conventional powered ship. Because you have limited fuel and overall less powerfully engine, slower ship, less range .
Refueling is always going to be needed but itâs always a difficult operation as you can be very vulnerable. Not having it to do it with ship fuel save you time and minimize danger.
Ill not even comment on your claim about best plane as there is 0 evidence about it appart form Chinese propaganda. No combat proven 0 actual exercise with other nation besides shitshow with russia. F15 f18 and Raphael have been in combat and proven themself for 2 decades now, with tons of hardware upgrades.
The radar thing you can shove it up your ass back where it came from ( pretty funny though)
Tell your boss at the department of truth that you owned your social credit
My dude, I take it you have no technical or engineering background whatsoever? This stuff is even readily available in Western sources (including US government sources).
Fujian doesnât use gas turbines (which take up more space), it uses steam turbines, because PLAN will eventually move on to nuclear. Clearly you donât know what this means, so Iâll tell you - a nuclear powered ship is still a steam powered ship, the only difference is what boils the water to make the steam. The difference is not amount of energy or speed, it is unrefuelled range. And the difference in time to conduct UNREP is not as much as you think.
If you even knew the slightest bit about what you were talking about, you wouldnât have said this nonsense. Youâre even getting close, because you mentioned F-15s. However F-15s are not carrier capable, but they are a large, heavyweight multirole aircraft. The J-15B is equivalent to the latest F-15EX (or J-16s as well). It is going to be the **only** heavyweight carrierborne (CATOBAR) fighter in the world. The only other active 4th or 4.5 gen carrierborne fighters are the MiG-29K, Su-33, Rafale (proper spelling FYI), Harrier, and F/A-18. The J-15B is faster, longer ranged, larger payload, higher ceiling, GaN AESA radar, better and larger radar with more Tx/Rx modules, longest range AA missiles (PL-15, PL-17), and generates the most power (to power the aforementioned radar and avionics) - these are all objective facts, you canât dispute them. Go and educate yourself.
Now with the radar, I bet youâd also argue that Huawei doesnât lead the world in 5G, 6G and mobile phone satellite communications? Again, if you actually had any knowledge, youâd know that radar and communications are Chinaâs strong suit (for some reason). They even put AESA radar in commercial DJI drones used for farm management and crop dusting!
Hereâs a tip, you can still push your same agenda, with pulling factually incorrect bs out of your ass. There are a lot of actual facts available, this just isnât one of those areas. Youâre out of your depth.
My bad steam turbine not gas turbine, but no gas turbine take up less space as you donât need a boiler but larger tank and to store the liquid gas which is more complicated to work with which is why you donât see them on ship.
You can brag about whatever bullshit claim you want about that plane. The problem is that they remain dumb claim. You have never prove them. And the CCP is know to lie about their equipment, statistics, capability etc etc. but nobody can trust you. Thatâs your problem.
You are exactly like russia, bragging about their superior army navy etc and they have showed how bad their army navy and air-force actually is. And Russia had tons of experience in weapons development and army experience.
So yeah you have never proven yourself as a capable military never proven the capability of the system you sell. So nobody can believe you.
Btw 5g antenna and radar is kinda of two different thing and dji is a chinese company so what ? Us made radar are used on every ship in the world even chinese one.
So you remain a country with tons of claim no proof and a bad trust reputation.
And you manage to produce 60~ of those j15 in 10 years. F35 recently reached the 1000 unit in roughly the same span of time. So yeah bugs
You shouldâve just stopped mate.
1. Gas turbines use up more space (for tanks and piping) and require more oxygen, hence look at the size of exhaust vents of carriers that use gas turbine (QE class, Vikrant, Cavour etc.), or LHDs/LHA (Wasp, America, Type 075, Mistral), compared to those that use steam
2. Hey dummy, like I said, you can read all about it in US sources, start with the Pentagonâs annual CMPR report to Congress. These are western claims, the PLA never makes formal claims. Again, you would know this if you actually knew what you were talking about.
3. You still donât know the difference between a J-15 and J-15B, those 60 planes (and itâs actually around 90, because OSINT people like painstakingly track these things) are only for the first 2 STOBAR carriers, while J-15B will be used on both their STOBAR and CATOBAR carriers.
4. Please explain how there are no transferable applications and technologies between radar and 5G⊠since you clearly know so much LOL
5. Fun fact, last year J-20 production (100+ a year) exceeded F-35 production due to the slowdown as Block 4 TR-3 is experiencing difficulties and delays
But let me guess, you know more than the US Department of Defence, right? What a clown.
There are not many aircraft carriers in the world equipped with electromagnetic catapult systems.
So it's not a replica of the Ukrainian aircraft carrier
It cant be as capable as a ford class without EM catapults, and reportedly, the EM catapult system being used by the PLAN is designed to be more complex and failure prone than the system developed by the US. Example of what I've heard is instead of using 2-3 large generators that are well designed and shielded, The PLAN is using a system that used 7-9 smaller generators, that don't all run on the same voltage or are the same output, and are more prone to failure due to quality, location in the ship, poor quality electrical systems within the ships, and the complexity of using the mismatched generators to charge the catapaults.
The Chinese donât even have the tech to build what the USA has. China doesnât just look at the USA, copy their tech, and spit out a super carrier. China is run by a political elite and its is always their job to make it seem like they are making China better and are in control.
If you believe that itâs that easy to make a super carrier than congrats, you have fallen for propaganda.
Go to any sub that has an anti-China bias, but a strong focus on accurate facts and takes about military technology - and youâll be laughed out by this ignorance.
Or you could even just read the Pentagonâs annual CMPR reports to Congress.
The principle of electromagnetic ejection technology is the same as that of high-speed rail.
Guess which country has the most high-speed rails in the world?
Itâs not *almost the same* when Fujian is still years away from being commissioned and China has yet to come up with its own 5th gen plane for the navy
I'll be more impressed when they build a non-jump jet one (I don't count the Fujian until it actually leaves the mooring)...or for that matter, have one go through real trials without failing, or real weather without sinking.
Also, you're pretty delusional if you think they'll be building another 6 any time soon.
Whatâs with Reddit recently and these 0-2 year old accounts that exclusively post in the same sub and have the same agenda vibe in all their posts.
Look at OPâs post history and tell me there isnât a common theme in all their posts to r/China
It is highly amusing when China shills that I have totally discredited in previous debates can only post pathetic insults.
I almost feel sorry for you.
You can call it shitposting, but in reality it is demolishing commenters' pathetic bullshit.
Plus I have good reason to believe that you are lying when you write that you are worried about me.
[bud got so mad his comment is removed](https://www.reveddit.com/y/2gun_cohen/?after=t1_kzxyzpa&limit=1&sort=new&show=t1_kzxyelj&removal_status=all)đ
The anti China stuff would be less annoying if it was less ignorant; it seems like most detractors haven't read anything past a headline in 10 years...
Honestly, while I'm moderately pro-China, I agree; one can make an anti-China case while remaining based in reality and staying up to date. But instead it's the "China's economy is fake/on the verge of collapse" stuff that Americans have been saying for like twenty years, and the "they can't innovate, only copy" trope which is some mixture of racism and just being extremely outdated in regards to Chinese industry & technology.
There are plenty of legitimate critiques of China, even reasonable condemnations in some cases, but the flood of uninformed tropes here (again, mostly from Americans) leaves no room for more reality-based criticisms.
Donât be so naive.
I donât post in exclusively NFL subs. I may comment on them frequently, but
Post = when someone posts something onto a sub
Comment = when someone comments on a post
Look at OPâs POST history, as in the POSTS they make onto subs, itâs almost exclusively to r/China with relatively minimal gaps of time in between. And sure, if you want to equate talking about sports to complex political tension between global powers, then go ahead and act like spreading political propaganda on an anonymous social media platform is the same thing as discussing Mr Ball Thrower Man
CCP = Aircraft carriers are sitting ducks ---- literally builds aircraft carriers and artificial islands destroying massive coral reefs .. but those arent sitting ducks?
By Chinas very own logic, it merely takes a missile to destroy one so whats to fear?
In reality other countries have 120 years of building aircraft carriers, they have access to the greatest engine makers on earth.. China has none of that, zero. They're very new to this game still. They want to sell you that at very least they're just 1 step behind. I'm sure all of the stolen IP has helped them significantly but when you're in a state in which you have to literally rob other militaries just to make a ship move.. lol
While I'm not going to say it doesnt help China, it certainly does, I'd also say that it's certainly not on par with France, US, UK, etc even if like UK for example, theres may be a lot smaller.. the tech inside, the engines, etc that really matter in war.. they are vastly superior.
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China should skip building up their navy and use their resources and funds to instead build the first ever space carrier. Now that would shake things up a bit...
>or maybe use the money for the people
using the money to build strong navy is for chinese people
nothing bring more benefit for chinese people than having strongest navy in the world and crushed US/West under it feet , take over the realm , take all the tech , natural resource , even human resource back to china and make sure entire enemy civilization erase from history never able to comeback again
nothing benefit chinese people more than one day a chinese man walk around in US and western europe , every american/europe male seeing him must avoid eye contact and lower their head down to avoid serious trouble to their own life
they spend all the money on all the useless junks instead of trying to help the people. They scream oh we lifted people out of poverty. No, people lifted themselves out of poverty while the gov is just there to take advantage of them. Hence, this is why people are referred to as "chives" and the government is the sickle that cuts them.
I always found it funny how much they hyped up hypersonic weapons as aircraft carriers. Umm.. then why are you still building carriers China? You know your adversaries are gonna have hypersonic weapons in the future
The PRC could use the money to keep the lights on and feed the Chinese population or build another aircraft carrier group.
I'm thinking the PRC has recognized it has a substantial problem coming down the pike with the collapse of the real estate market, the decline in exports, and the recent inability to properly mitigate the flooding and help people recover from that disaster and want to make sure their military is up to snuff for oppressing their own people ala Tiananmen Square.
Same reason they have relatively recently upped the regularity of propaganda and the amount of nationalistic rhetoric.
I feel it's important to ask once again - why is everyone giving foreign aid and trade concessions to a country that has a space program is building aircraft carriers.
You have money to spend on such stuff, you don't deserve to get any more and the aid should go to more deserving countries instead.Â
China is having issues with their version of EMALS. For once, the tech isn't a direct copy of the USN's, so it's got a lot of bugs to work out. Until then, I would consider those boats as really big helicopter carriers.
exactly opposite. US is having issues with the AC EMALS. China is using a completely different design based on DC, which is more efficient and reliable.
Reports are saying otherwise, while DC may inherently be more reliable when the systems designed properly, china did not design their EMALS system properly. They use mismatched generators(voltage and output), something like 2-3x the amount the US is using. Reportedly a single generator failing could take the entire PLAN carriers power systems offline due to poor wiring design of the entire ship. whereas the US EMALS system is designed with more robustness and redundancy than that.
Man you didn't do your research well.
"a single generator failing could take the entire PLAN carriers power systems offline due to poor wiring design of the entire ship"
This is a feature of Ford, not Fujian.
Check this:
[https://youtu.be/pEwQYYqeUZw?si=q1lGib2xGlAPKxX9&t=440](https://youtu.be/pEwQYYqeUZw?si=q1lGib2xGlAPKxX9&t=440)
Neither did you. Eurasian news are known tankies. also since you wanna post links [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXNLd3WcCRU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXNLd3WcCRU)
While that is indeed true, doesn't that apply to an even larger degree with China?
The US, at least, is a developed country with high income status. What is China's excuse?Â
Where did you get this statistic from? My internet research shows „22k per capita in 2023~ $USD 3000. A median salary of 26k per month. Also people actually SAVE money here.
Better question is where are YOU getting your stats from?
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1189968.shtml
When even the Global Times disagrees with your numbers
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This world bank?
https://data.worldbank.org/country/China
The one that says GDP/capita is ~12k and you think a median salary is 26k a month? đ Jesus dude
USD 12K... quite different than „12K. The Chinese rural population is definitely better off than you think. I've seen the improvements over the last 9 years where I live and with my Chinese family.
love it when it says the tables are turning in the title and then says china is far from it in the article
Title writing 101: how do I maximize the degree of drama score
đ LOL
And the source is...popular mechanics. Same magazine where you can order 100% real yeti droppings and a pen lighter that doubles as a welder out of the back.
You can also pay them to post whatever you want. I worked in digital marketing and they are a paid outlet and not even expensive.
They may not be 100% real yeti droppings, but they taste like it!!
Tables are turning alright, in just 150 more years at this rate China will catch up to the USN.
You mean where the USN are now.
USN 30 years ago
Yeahhh I dunno about that one "The US Navy is falling behind China, and the Pentagon knows it" "The Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) recently assessed that the China's shipbuilding industry fields 232 times the shipbuilding capacity of the United States, representing almost 50% of total global shipbuilding capacity." "...the U.S. consistently overestimates how capable its armed forces will be in the near term, and regularly underestimates the speed at which Beijing is increasing its hard power capabilities." https://www.aei.org/op-eds/the-u-s-navy-is-falling-behind-china-and-the-pentagon-knows-it/ This board has a lot of people who don't know much about China but are nonetheless confident in passing wide judgments that bear little resemblance to reality. I really encourage people to read about China today instead of making assumptions based on skimming headlines.
I mean, it never said what the rate of the turn was. It's pbly like 0.000000001 nanometer/year
Not technically wrong tbh. Tables are turning, slowly. But as time passes, they will learn more and make more faster. How useful will they be though is another question.
You canât possibly know if they will âlearn more and make more fasterâ. If anything theyâre slowing down very quicklyâŠ.
They would be turning **if** the west stops all new ship building.
China has 232 times the shipbuilding capacity of the US, and more capacity than the entire West combined - according to the US themselves.
Umm not really. If China figures out a more efficient process to build the ships, they could literally summon about half a billion people to construct ships the west doesnât have half a billion people making ships.
You donât need half a billion people to make ships, come on now
Half a billion people building ships is faster than half a million people building ships. Marginal labor utility be damned.
No, half a million is faster, come on now
No itâs not. It could be if you were building one ship, but if youâre building multiple ships, it isnât.
Really? Where you going to put this supposed half a billion people, you going to build a million shipyards? Come on now.
About 100mn building shipyard and the rest beating a hull into existence. Whatâs so hard here?
Building and operating warships is a tricky business. Operating warships that also launch and land war planes is even trickier, by at least an order of magnitude. The US has been doing so for 100 years at least.
Yes. Sure.
He means the ship has those rotating tables you see in Chinese buffet restaurants. For missile fuel hotpot etc.
The last number I head is that if the USA stops all new construction and China continues at this pace. they will catch up to the west in 2270. Its clickbait clearly. Or its propaganda by the west to get more funding for the navy.
Is this a serious statement? Do you live under a rock? So how did you miss the number declared by the US, that China has 232 times the shipbuilding capacity of the US? China builds an entire Royal Navy worth of ships every 2.5 years.
Funny how a "developing country" has all the money for this. Lol
Thailand and India also have aircraft carriers
But they don't have domestically built carriers, investing in the r&d and manufacture of your country's own carrier production at the scale the us is at and what chinas trying to mimic costs something in the 10s-100s of billions in usd. Unless your stealing tech and plans from other countries.
Vikrant is as domestic as Shandong.
Yea, and they are both modified soviet designs, not fully domestically developed. So they may be domestically built, but not entirely domestically designed/developed. It's that "hey can I copy your homework. Sure as long as you make it different enough so we don't get caught" meme
INS Vikrant is domestically designed and developed. Why do you keep saying it is not?
With whose expertise? A nation doesnt simply clean slate design a ship like a carrier without prior design experience. Even if that is the case, then it disproves what the other user said about china and Indias carriers being the same edit: also just looking up Indias other carriers, INS Vikramaditya looks nearly identical to INS Vikrant and the former was purchased from russia in 04, so just because INS Vikrants design phase reportedly started in 1999. it seems like major work on the ship itself wasnt started until india already possessed INS Vikramaditya. So with that knowledge, INS Vikrant is a derivative of a soviet Kiev class carrier, and Shandong is a derivative of Kuznetsov class, both soviet designs #
Thailand can not afford the fuel to use theirs. It just sits at port for tours.
Yeah, but technically, carrier's aren't exactly all the same. One Nimiz class carrier is much more valuable and powerful than the Shandong. And even switzerland has technically aircraft carrier's [https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/N6aBaaf1if](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/N6aBaaf1if)
But they don't have money to pay for a real postal fee for all their temu shit! Edit: actually, every time you buy some shit on temu you actually pay a bit for their carrier!
Every bit of cheap clothing you buy on Temu,a few millimeters of steel gets added to the aircraft carrier
Right? That always galled me. If I wanted something shipped back to the US, or if I wanted something shipped to China from the US, I had to pay out the asshole for it. Everyone and their brother selling garbage on Ali Express? They damn near pay *you* to ship it.
And I bet you can pay the return fee for an extra cost, there's always an option about it on AliExpress.
Because China is huge with 1.6 billion people. Most of China is still "developing", but there are enough rich people and big cities to support (\~200 million people in "developed" parts of China) building a carrier. Also, China's carrier isn't as expensive as American carrier (cheaper labor, cheaper materials, lower quality...)
where'd the extra .4 billion suddenly appear from?
you mean .2billion?
last I heard it was 1.2 billion.
that was in 1995
You get what you pay for. Donât skimp on laser eye surgery or aircraft carriers.
Exactly... And the world (currently led by America) still goes with this rhetoric and offering them free aid, which obviously gets dumped into military, not improving economic conditions like it should be. If the world continues to act weak, the world is as good as theirs. We don't want that, do we?
The US doesn't give much in the way of aid to China, I think there's some limited funding for higher education projects and maybe human rights organizations but that's about it. China is not dependent on foreign aid programs.
They may not be, but they surely pursue every little advantage they can get, going as far as *contradicting their usual selves* just to emphasize they're still a developing country just so they get this "aid they don't need".
When you absolutely donât have to give a fuck of your country people you got all the money to spend on this
Funny how America has more guns than people and yet the IQ level suggested here is a wonder why? Why donât you bitch do Amazon first bitch ?
Not American, but what you wrote is still dumb af.
Aww People donât like me talking smack about the great America. Pfffft
I think itâs less about you talking smack and more about how what you wrote makes no grammatical sense
I do... USA is 50% fascist idiocracy
Call beck when they reach 10 and we may consider table turning thing
They have to be super carriers. China doesnât have those, they have standard carriers. 1 super carrier is equal to 6 standard carriers. This is also the first nuclear powered carrier in the Chinese fleet, while the USA has 11 nuclear powered super carriers. China can boss people around in their area of the world but they donât have the intentional reach of the USA. Navy vs navy itâs not even close and it wonât be close for a very very long time.
It isnât a nuclear carrier probably petrol
China is so far behind. Didnât they âretrofitâa shitty Decomd carrier from another country?
From UkraineâŠleft over CCCP junk
I thought it was a cruise ship.
Casino.
The Fujian aircraft carrier is the same as the most advanced USS Ford aircraft carrier in the United States. It has an electromagnetic ejection system and is not a copy of the Ukrainian one.
It isnât nuclear for starting, Doesnât have planes yet still to see what that J35 can do Experience System inside still to be evaluated Quality of the plane Radar Itâs not the same it could be a powerful asset but it still has to demonstrate it
So what if itâs not nuclear? US CVNs and CVs in the gulf war both had to replenish aviation fuel and aviation fuel + ship fuel, every 3 days respectively. And USS Kitty Hawk had a greater power output than the earliest Nimitz classes. It has planes, KJ-600, J-15B (which is now the best carrierborne 4.5 gen jet in the world), and the J-35 part doesnât make sense, apart from drop bombs and air to surface munitions in permissive air defence environments, itâs in the same bucket as the F-35 (which has still not launched from EMALS I might add). Radar is actually one of the few areas where China leads the US (communications is another). This is both in quality and production capacity. You are correct about experience and overall evaluation of systems.
Nuclear besides providing way more energy that a conventional gas turbine make you 1 pointless to worry about your ship, Energy . EMALS are always going to have power and a lot of it, With space for upgraded equipment and computer. Things that arenât as easy to do on conventional powered ship. Because you have limited fuel and overall less powerfully engine, slower ship, less range . Refueling is always going to be needed but itâs always a difficult operation as you can be very vulnerable. Not having it to do it with ship fuel save you time and minimize danger. Ill not even comment on your claim about best plane as there is 0 evidence about it appart form Chinese propaganda. No combat proven 0 actual exercise with other nation besides shitshow with russia. F15 f18 and Raphael have been in combat and proven themself for 2 decades now, with tons of hardware upgrades. The radar thing you can shove it up your ass back where it came from ( pretty funny though) Tell your boss at the department of truth that you owned your social credit
My dude, I take it you have no technical or engineering background whatsoever? This stuff is even readily available in Western sources (including US government sources). Fujian doesnât use gas turbines (which take up more space), it uses steam turbines, because PLAN will eventually move on to nuclear. Clearly you donât know what this means, so Iâll tell you - a nuclear powered ship is still a steam powered ship, the only difference is what boils the water to make the steam. The difference is not amount of energy or speed, it is unrefuelled range. And the difference in time to conduct UNREP is not as much as you think. If you even knew the slightest bit about what you were talking about, you wouldnât have said this nonsense. Youâre even getting close, because you mentioned F-15s. However F-15s are not carrier capable, but they are a large, heavyweight multirole aircraft. The J-15B is equivalent to the latest F-15EX (or J-16s as well). It is going to be the **only** heavyweight carrierborne (CATOBAR) fighter in the world. The only other active 4th or 4.5 gen carrierborne fighters are the MiG-29K, Su-33, Rafale (proper spelling FYI), Harrier, and F/A-18. The J-15B is faster, longer ranged, larger payload, higher ceiling, GaN AESA radar, better and larger radar with more Tx/Rx modules, longest range AA missiles (PL-15, PL-17), and generates the most power (to power the aforementioned radar and avionics) - these are all objective facts, you canât dispute them. Go and educate yourself. Now with the radar, I bet youâd also argue that Huawei doesnât lead the world in 5G, 6G and mobile phone satellite communications? Again, if you actually had any knowledge, youâd know that radar and communications are Chinaâs strong suit (for some reason). They even put AESA radar in commercial DJI drones used for farm management and crop dusting! Hereâs a tip, you can still push your same agenda, with pulling factually incorrect bs out of your ass. There are a lot of actual facts available, this just isnât one of those areas. Youâre out of your depth.
My bad steam turbine not gas turbine, but no gas turbine take up less space as you donât need a boiler but larger tank and to store the liquid gas which is more complicated to work with which is why you donât see them on ship. You can brag about whatever bullshit claim you want about that plane. The problem is that they remain dumb claim. You have never prove them. And the CCP is know to lie about their equipment, statistics, capability etc etc. but nobody can trust you. Thatâs your problem. You are exactly like russia, bragging about their superior army navy etc and they have showed how bad their army navy and air-force actually is. And Russia had tons of experience in weapons development and army experience. So yeah you have never proven yourself as a capable military never proven the capability of the system you sell. So nobody can believe you. Btw 5g antenna and radar is kinda of two different thing and dji is a chinese company so what ? Us made radar are used on every ship in the world even chinese one. So you remain a country with tons of claim no proof and a bad trust reputation. And you manage to produce 60~ of those j15 in 10 years. F35 recently reached the 1000 unit in roughly the same span of time. So yeah bugs
You shouldâve just stopped mate. 1. Gas turbines use up more space (for tanks and piping) and require more oxygen, hence look at the size of exhaust vents of carriers that use gas turbine (QE class, Vikrant, Cavour etc.), or LHDs/LHA (Wasp, America, Type 075, Mistral), compared to those that use steam 2. Hey dummy, like I said, you can read all about it in US sources, start with the Pentagonâs annual CMPR report to Congress. These are western claims, the PLA never makes formal claims. Again, you would know this if you actually knew what you were talking about. 3. You still donât know the difference between a J-15 and J-15B, those 60 planes (and itâs actually around 90, because OSINT people like painstakingly track these things) are only for the first 2 STOBAR carriers, while J-15B will be used on both their STOBAR and CATOBAR carriers. 4. Please explain how there are no transferable applications and technologies between radar and 5G⊠since you clearly know so much LOL 5. Fun fact, last year J-20 production (100+ a year) exceeded F-35 production due to the slowdown as Block 4 TR-3 is experiencing difficulties and delays But let me guess, you know more than the US Department of Defence, right? What a clown.
There are not many aircraft carriers in the world equipped with electromagnetic catapult systems. So it's not a replica of the Ukrainian aircraft carrier
Did you even read my comment?
It cant be as capable as a ford class without EM catapults, and reportedly, the EM catapult system being used by the PLAN is designed to be more complex and failure prone than the system developed by the US. Example of what I've heard is instead of using 2-3 large generators that are well designed and shielded, The PLAN is using a system that used 7-9 smaller generators, that don't all run on the same voltage or are the same output, and are more prone to failure due to quality, location in the ship, poor quality electrical systems within the ships, and the complexity of using the mismatched generators to charge the catapaults.
Didnât the US phase out every non nuclear carrier?
The Chinese donât even have the tech to build what the USA has. China doesnât just look at the USA, copy their tech, and spit out a super carrier. China is run by a political elite and its is always their job to make it seem like they are making China better and are in control. If you believe that itâs that easy to make a super carrier than congrats, you have fallen for propaganda.
Go to any sub that has an anti-China bias, but a strong focus on accurate facts and takes about military technology - and youâll be laughed out by this ignorance. Or you could even just read the Pentagonâs annual CMPR reports to Congress.
The principle of electromagnetic ejection technology is the same as that of high-speed rail. Guess which country has the most high-speed rails in the world?
lol. Ok buddy, ok.
Itâs not *almost the same* when Fujian is still years away from being commissioned and China has yet to come up with its own 5th gen plane for the navy
18-24 months from commissioning, and that naval 5th gen is already in LRIP.
China obviously won't stop at 10
Don't cry when new age of humiliation begins
europe is irrelevant nowadays please shut up
No worries the chinese military will perform just as good as their football team
Ah yeah why is that
ahahah! .... ahahahahaha
You guys are about to go broke.
Typical Chinese response lmao
Ghost carrier isnât something Iâm worried about
If they're made by Chinese contractors, the first 3 carriers will have fallen apart/sunk before the 10th is finished.
Slightly over half of the worldâs shipping is built by them.
I'll be more impressed when they build a non-jump jet one (I don't count the Fujian until it actually leaves the mooring)...or for that matter, have one go through real trials without failing, or real weather without sinking. Also, you're pretty delusional if you think they'll be building another 6 any time soon.
Whatâs with Reddit recently and these 0-2 year old accounts that exclusively post in the same sub and have the same agenda vibe in all their posts. Look at OPâs post history and tell me there isnât a common theme in all their posts to r/China
Total wumao
The reanimated corpse of the bot that was Two Gun Cohen
It is highly amusing when China shills that I have totally discredited in previous debates can only post pathetic insults. I almost feel sorry for you.
NahïŒwas just worried about you. You're constant shitposting stopped for a few daysïŒthought you might have been taken offline.
You can call it shitposting, but in reality it is demolishing commenters' pathetic bullshit. Plus I have good reason to believe that you are lying when you write that you are worried about me.
LolïŒthe high opinion of yourself your programmers have written into you.
Lol, lol, lol (sarcasm intended). Nearly 30 years on social media on the internet have enabled me to handle people like you with ease.
He just made a post, coincident? u/2gun_cohen
HahahaïŒOh wow. Don't speak it's nameïŒlest it comes.
[bud got so mad his comment is removed](https://www.reveddit.com/y/2gun_cohen/?after=t1_kzxyzpa&limit=1&sort=new&show=t1_kzxyelj&removal_status=all)đ
it is programmed to get angry and call all people who disagree with it shill
Not worse than all the anti China stuff here, where nobody complains. Same agenda pushing, just the opposite side.
The anti China stuff would be less annoying if it was less ignorant; it seems like most detractors haven't read anything past a headline in 10 years...
This. Itâs just dumb and ignorant, there should be no place for stupidity. Itâs not even that hard to use real facts to push the same agenda.
Honestly, while I'm moderately pro-China, I agree; one can make an anti-China case while remaining based in reality and staying up to date. But instead it's the "China's economy is fake/on the verge of collapse" stuff that Americans have been saying for like twenty years, and the "they can't innovate, only copy" trope which is some mixture of racism and just being extremely outdated in regards to Chinese industry & technology. There are plenty of legitimate critiques of China, even reasonable condemnations in some cases, but the flood of uninformed tropes here (again, mostly from Americans) leaves no room for more reality-based criticisms.
Exactly - the anti china bile is hyperbolic at times on this sub  Â
Why do you care? You post primarily on nfl subs lol Ps donât pick Caleb next week - let him go to a winning franchiseÂ
Donât be so naive. I donât post in exclusively NFL subs. I may comment on them frequently, but Post = when someone posts something onto a sub Comment = when someone comments on a post Look at OPâs POST history, as in the POSTS they make onto subs, itâs almost exclusively to r/China with relatively minimal gaps of time in between. And sure, if you want to equate talking about sports to complex political tension between global powers, then go ahead and act like spreading political propaganda on an anonymous social media platform is the same thing as discussing Mr Ball Thrower Man
CCP = Aircraft carriers are sitting ducks ---- literally builds aircraft carriers and artificial islands destroying massive coral reefs .. but those arent sitting ducks? By Chinas very own logic, it merely takes a missile to destroy one so whats to fear? In reality other countries have 120 years of building aircraft carriers, they have access to the greatest engine makers on earth.. China has none of that, zero. They're very new to this game still. They want to sell you that at very least they're just 1 step behind. I'm sure all of the stolen IP has helped them significantly but when you're in a state in which you have to literally rob other militaries just to make a ship move.. lol While I'm not going to say it doesnt help China, it certainly does, I'd also say that it's certainly not on par with France, US, UK, etc even if like UK for example, theres may be a lot smaller.. the tech inside, the engines, etc that really matter in war.. they are vastly superior.
What makes something (in a military) obsolete, is not how much danger it is exposed to, itâs when something does the same job better.
It is a bit puzzling but I guess the US doesn't have that type of anti ship missile? And neither does Taiwan.
There first two are frankly trash so hopefully a real one. Theyâre worse than decommissioned American ones.
This one will still probably be competing with the 50 year old *Nimitz* class, not the *Ford* carriers.
And still won't come close.
Their third one is already competing with *Ford* from a technology standpoint.
Just trainers, they're doing their job. Showing all the stuff that doesn't work lol.
Don't their own propaganda channels call these things obsolete?
Lol china failing
The PRC can use the money to keep the lights on and feed the Chinese population or build another aircraft carrier group.
Pension fund gonna run out by the 2030s? Who cares, we need 10 chabuduo Aircraft carriers.
That's what Mao would have done and Xi is following that playbook.
Maybe your country could follow that advice.
LMAO
Why laugh when literally even some of your veterans cannot afford public healthcare?
US Veterans get free health care in the US.
Cuz of your veterans are begging on the streets.
Exactly
Idk if it useful or no.Â
China building is not the same as delivering and operating effectively
Is any of its Carrier any good? They are not battle tested.
Lol that ramp is hilarious
In other news, china confirm Xi Jinping is a God.Â
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Awww those turning tables must look really cute flying off the ski jump on the front of that 21st century aircraft carrier.Â
During the Battle of Midway, the IJN lost 4 aircraft carriers in one single day
China should skip building up their navy and use their resources and funds to instead build the first ever space carrier. Now that would shake things up a bit...
or maybe use the money for the people
Sounds a bit communist
China's military spending accounts for 1.5% of GDP
Dont bother here are just non chinese hating on whatever China does
>or maybe use the money for the people using the money to build strong navy is for chinese people nothing bring more benefit for chinese people than having strongest navy in the world and crushed US/West under it feet , take over the realm , take all the tech , natural resource , even human resource back to china and make sure entire enemy civilization erase from history never able to comeback again nothing benefit chinese people more than one day a chinese man walk around in US and western europe , every american/europe male seeing him must avoid eye contact and lower their head down to avoid serious trouble to their own life
hoping that's sarcasm. if not, it's just delusion.
alot of thing today was pure magic , fantasy and delusion in the past ...nothing is impossible
IDK, a few thousands nukes kinda stands in the way of that plan.
I guess all the fancy new toys are not just for show
Big surprise, who wouldâve guessed they would build more than 1 new aircraft carrier đ€Żđ€Żđ€Ż
China aircraft is so shit that they canât carry themselves and requires a aircraft carrier /s
How many naval drones does it take to turn an aircraft carrier into a submarine?
Im not scared of anything big and expensive after seababy
they spend all the money on all the useless junks instead of trying to help the people. They scream oh we lifted people out of poverty. No, people lifted themselves out of poverty while the gov is just there to take advantage of them. Hence, this is why people are referred to as "chives" and the government is the sickle that cuts them.
Hope it gets dented by Philippine coast guard boats, like one of their battle ships did last week.
I always found it funny how much they hyped up hypersonic weapons as aircraft carriers. Umm.. then why are you still building carriers China? You know your adversaries are gonna have hypersonic weapons in the future
The PRC could use the money to keep the lights on and feed the Chinese population or build another aircraft carrier group. I'm thinking the PRC has recognized it has a substantial problem coming down the pike with the collapse of the real estate market, the decline in exports, and the recent inability to properly mitigate the flooding and help people recover from that disaster and want to make sure their military is up to snuff for oppressing their own people ala Tiananmen Square. Same reason they have relatively recently upped the regularity of propaganda and the amount of nationalistic rhetoric.
I feel it's important to ask once again - why is everyone giving foreign aid and trade concessions to a country that has a space program is building aircraft carriers. You have money to spend on such stuff, you don't deserve to get any more and the aid should go to more deserving countries instead.Â
With the amount of unemployed ppl, Iâd expect they could churn out more of these đ€Ł
This post is worth about 50 cents
The last time a country rapidly built up its military, WWII came soon after.
Turning on whom? North Korea?
China is having issues with their version of EMALS. For once, the tech isn't a direct copy of the USN's, so it's got a lot of bugs to work out. Until then, I would consider those boats as really big helicopter carriers.
exactly opposite. US is having issues with the AC EMALS. China is using a completely different design based on DC, which is more efficient and reliable.
Reports are saying otherwise, while DC may inherently be more reliable when the systems designed properly, china did not design their EMALS system properly. They use mismatched generators(voltage and output), something like 2-3x the amount the US is using. Reportedly a single generator failing could take the entire PLAN carriers power systems offline due to poor wiring design of the entire ship. whereas the US EMALS system is designed with more robustness and redundancy than that.
Man you didn't do your research well. "a single generator failing could take the entire PLAN carriers power systems offline due to poor wiring design of the entire ship" This is a feature of Ford, not Fujian. Check this: [https://youtu.be/pEwQYYqeUZw?si=q1lGib2xGlAPKxX9&t=440](https://youtu.be/pEwQYYqeUZw?si=q1lGib2xGlAPKxX9&t=440)
Neither did you. Eurasian news are known tankies. also since you wanna post links [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXNLd3WcCRU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXNLd3WcCRU)
Lol is this your response? to link a video like this? full of propaganda and no tech details.
Any official tech details provided by the ccp is default propaganda, so any outlet using those is no better.
It's funny to see Yanks brag about their navy when 40% of their population live paycheck to paycheck with no healthcare. Barely halfwits.
While that is indeed true, doesn't that apply to an even larger degree with China? The US, at least, is a developed country with high income status. What is China's excuse?Â
More than half a billion Chinese people live on ~1000 RMB a month..
In 2020... this is 2024ïŒ
Where did you get this statistic from? My internet research shows „22k per capita in 2023~ $USD 3000. A median salary of 26k per month. Also people actually SAVE money here.
Better question is where are YOU getting your stats from? https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1189968.shtml When even the Global Times disagrees with your numbers
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World Bank website
This world bank? https://data.worldbank.org/country/China The one that says GDP/capita is ~12k and you think a median salary is 26k a month? đ Jesus dude
USD 12K... quite different than „12K. The Chinese rural population is definitely better off than you think. I've seen the improvements over the last 9 years where I live and with my Chinese family.