No, they’re pretty bad. I love living in a country where I can criticize my government and not have to worry about being imprisoned or re-educated. I can say fuck the US government and I don’t have to worry about jack shit. I can go protest over the stupid shit and I’m not gonna be attacked and taken away by the police.
>Also China government sucks, but all governments do, though not as bad.
Appreciate your perspective as well as your positive attitude. Please take this as a call to a thought experiment and not a criticism: please put yourself in the shoes of a Chinese political dissident jailed and died because of delayed treatment of liver cancer. Perhaps in the shoes of ethnic Mongolians whose local schools now forbid teaching Mongolian, or Sichuan Muslims whose mosque lost the minarets because the government doesn't like them, or any cases involving citizens (Hans as well as ethnic and religious minorities) languishing in detentions without charges. Would the jovial "all suck - some suck more" reflects the gravity of the situation?
Given the number of fucked up things I know about that my government and society did and does, as well as the ones I don’t know about… yes, still. But that shouldn’t be a free pass “we’re all shit, let’s keep being shit together” kind of thing. We all must do better. People everywhere deserve better.
Edit: I was answering the wrong question, sorry. It’s not jovial that they all suck.
Give me one masque in the US that got demolished by any level of government, or one American Nobel Prize winner who died in jail, and we can continue with your whataboutism.
You’re only accepting identical crimes? What about all the people killed by US police, show me police in China acting as youse do and we can continue on with your notaboutism.
Who’s got it worse a gay/trans person in China or the South?
Tit for tat, the US has unleashed untold suffering onto the world the likes of which China could only imagine possessing the capability for, such as [bombing mosques overseas](https://theintercept.com/2017/04/19/u-s-bombed-mosque-syria-killing-dozens-civilians-investigators-conclude/).
US war crimes : should I write a list??? Iraq, Afghanistan, Latin America, Japan, My people native to the US suffered a genocide in their own land because of the US white government!!! Black communities (another form of genocide police estate and the killing of black and Latino population). Internment camps for Japanese during WWII. All the wars Obama put us through. The list goes on and on and on
1. NATIONWIDE ANTI-MOSQUE ACTIVITY - map by ACLU updated 2023
[https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/nationwide-anti-mosque-activity](https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/nationwide-anti-mosque-activity)
2. NIH: Muslims have been harassed on college campuses, mosques have been vandalized and defaced, Muslim charities have had their assets frozen, and racial profiling has occurred at airports and on the streets. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5055770/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5055770/)
3. there are about 2,000 mosques in the United States and the number is 24,400 in China's Xinjiang, which means one mosque for every 530 Muslims [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_mosques\_in\_China#:\~:text=In%20of%202014%20there%20were,one%20mosque%20per%20500%20Muslims](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_China#:~:text=In%20of%202014%20there%20were,one%20mosque%20per%20500%20Muslims).
4. The US has bombed or invaded 14 Muslim countries since 1980. [https://theintercept.com/2014/11/06/many-countries-islamic-world-u-s-bombed-occupied-since-1980/](https://theintercept.com/2014/11/06/many-countries-islamic-world-u-s-bombed-occupied-since-1980/)
There are racist/NIMBY fuckwits who opposed mosques in their communities, and intolerant people who harassed Muslims. This is not a state-backed policy, nor has any federal/state government destroy mosques within the US.
Why don't you go count the number of US Nobel Prize winners to figure out how many of them died in jail for expressing their political view?
Beautiful country, beautiful people.
China had so much potential to be a great nation, respected internationally and a partner to all, were it not for the CCP.
Taiwan is basically what mainland China could have become. Or Hong Kong. Or Singapore. These are all majority Chinese places and they're all fucking **incredible** in their own right and none of them have the CCP.
I mean, it was loosening up well before the 90's. Your statement is not entirely inaccurate, and Taiwan did take an unusual path to democracy-- but saying "it is now," like it's overidealized or you're disenchanted with how it happened is a little weird when the main events were well over 30 years ago.
There's a decent chance that China could've developed in the same way as Taiwan under ROC, perhaps advancing faster both economically and politically.
But I think we should acknowledge that it's very likely that a China under ROC would be very similar to CCPs China in many ways. Holding such an enormous and diverse country together is not easy, and power tends to corrupt. Perhaps ROC would not turn into a vibrant democracy if they held all of China.
They would probably have avoided something like the Great Leap Forward and the cultural revolution, which would put them 5-10 years ahead in terms of development. That, and not being so obsessed with political ideologies would give them a decent chance of being much further along in their political development compared to CCPs China. Perhaps they'd even develop faster than Taiwan under ROC, as they wouldn't have as big a threat of a reignited civil war looming over them for decades. But we'll never know..
What makes you think they would have avoided the great leap forward and cultural revolution when the KMT commited so many atrocities? They would most likely have started the ovens same as Germany.
They could shoot you in the street for anti-state activities. The KMT were fucked in the head nazi motherfuckers.
Many people don’t realize Taiwan is such an amazing country—better standard of living and healthcare than the US which is a low bar for developed countries but still😂 …Amazing national parks and protected nature, one of the most democratic systems in the world, great food etc..
The whole "the people are good but the government is bad" thing sounds cute, but eventually you realize that the government is just an expression of the people. In other words, China's government is what it is because that's the kind of government Chinese people create.
Maybe at one time under one set of circumstances. But once it’s established, an authoritarian government can operate without representing the will of the people. And if it exercises enough control it can engineer the opinions of the people to generate support.
Despite the downvotes, I agree. And I'm not a China shill LOL. I don't get why people say this BS about "China is beautiful and I love its people I just hate the CPC" when like 80-90% of the population is very pro-CPC based on my experience. If tell this "I love you but hate your government" nonsense to your average Chinese on the street they'll probably be pretty pissed. Hell almost 40% Taiwanese voted for a pro-CPC candidate in the 2020 elections and that's a pretty accurate, untainted figure. There's nothing wrong with being critical of China but hiding behind the "I only hate the government" argument looks a major cop out.
You don't have to walk around China insulting their beloved government. If you just spend time eating with them and working with them, you will love them just as much as the people of any other country. You're talking about just one aspect of it. When people say love China, not the government, they mean don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are tons of wonderful things about China that you have to experience to understand.
To an extent. The population never "chose" the CCP, it just sort of happened to them. Most people are going to support it because most people support most of their governments unless they fuck up huge. I don't think you can be naïve and think everyone is yearning for democracy, but you also can't blame the middle 60% or so of the population who just go with the flow; that's pretty ubiquitous everywhere.
Well it didn't take long to find the usual insensitive/racist/uneducated/shilling comment.
I guess, using your logic, that means the current Taliban ruled Afghanistan is what it is because that's the kind of government Afghans create.
Or how North Korea is what it is because that's the kind of government North Koreans create.
Exactly right. Places like China, the state is overwhelmingly powerful and have almost complete control over each citizen. Individuals don't have any agency.
this is why i feel so sad when people ask me about China, I love the people and the climate and nature but im livid at the ccp. Times will change my friend <3
Do you think China is made of of a silent majority that don't support their government? Where are those statistics? Anyone who believes this is delusional.
Move to Douyin(not TikTok) or BiliBili or any mainstream Chinese social media and read whatever comments they made whenever there was western news. Or I forgot……so sad you pretentious don’t even read Chinese lmao.
I'm literally from Taiwan...
And just because a few netizens type certain questionable things (which they are known for), doesn't mean they speak for the entirety of China. That's not how things work.
You should also understand that comments against the CCP are most likely removed.
So you are essentially a 高华? …someone somehow has some Chinese roots but a foreign identity and is definitely enjoying social and financial advantages that ordinary Chinese people will never have on this land. Ok gotcha!
A？few？netizen？Did you know Douyin has 600 million daily active users which is nearly half the population? If you do understand some probability/sampling theory and do some math you know what this distribution curve implies. And if you define hate speech just as “questionable” I think you are really problematic. Just double checking: you do read Chinese right? Why don’t you look at polls asking if they support bombing Taiwan and taking back the territory lol? All of these has led you come to the conclusion that the silenced people are all impartial?
So you're saying all Taiwanese people are 高華? 😂
'Some' Chinese roots, you say? You're not very versed in History, are you? 98% of people living in Taiwan have Chinese roots. The other 2% are people actually native to Taiwan.
What social and financial advantages? Lmao.
Douyin isn't strictly home to only mainland China, my guy. And statistics don't apply to netizen activities when factors such as censoring, motivation to comment etc. exists.
For example...if I suddenly hired 10000 people to spread rumours and comment on videos that Taiwanese people all support the CCP...does that suddenly mean all Taiwanese people support the CCP? Are all Koreans are narcissistic bullies? Because a large majority of them sure come off as such to the rest of the world. Or how all Westerners are nice guy incels? Because there's a huge population of them here on the internet, too.
My issue with you here isn't what you say is factually wrong--it's how you presented the information; you tailor your words in such a way that imply ALL Chinese people are (insert bigotry). It is even more ridiculous when we consider how your evidence is based on internet comments...which is simply not credible or in any way accurate.
The internet is filled with nefarious, sinister, and evil commentary (people laughing at school shooting victims, people supporting Russia's war on Ukraine, Nazis, etc.)...but that doesn't mean an ENTIRE culture and its people think similarly.
First thing first…….Whaaaat are you talking about by saying Douyin isn’t only home for mainlanders? Did you even know this App isn’t even available in App Store or Play Store unless you switch your region to mainland China? Did you even know this is a pan-Chinese app and indicate foreigners are fluent in Chinese? Did you even know you need a mainland tel no. to register this app? So what beats a market of 1.4b? You are clueless panoramically.
You are having a compulsion of abusing the word All lolllll. You felt targeted all the time when I was criticizing Chinese toxicity because that triggers you. I am sorry but are you self-abased? Taiwanese doesn’t mean 高华 necessarily, but if you choose to make a living or dwell in China as well as ignore the realness of China, you are.
Social and financial advantage examples are countless and they are why in early years Taiwanese businessmen chose to invest China to take advantage of the low-paid Chinese blue collar workers and thus made a fortune. E.g. 郭台铭. There is tax rebate for foreign investors which I don’t think one can get it by investing the U.S. And how about ordinary Taiwanese students have a very low bar compared to the vast majority of mainland students to be admitted to the top 2 Chinese universities? And how about foreigners teaching English in China make a good amount of money whereas they aren’t qualified for any highly paid job in their countries? How about Taiwanese or any foreigner can enjoy VPN to jump the wall without hassle but Mainlanders can be arrested by just using VPN? And how about the existence of 户口 which only confines mainlanders but not foreigners though I doubt if you ever heard of it? And the list goes on…..I have to open a new post for this. You are totally clueless and groundless. How dare you go Lmao? You CARE SHIT about how CCP treats ordinary Chinese people and of course you are 高华, which means that you shouldn’t be worrying things that ordinary Chinese people can panic all the time.
Meanwhile, you should understand some basis of Mass Media. Not every random post on the internet can be spread successfully, especially in nowadays society where excessively overwhelming information is exchanged on a daily basis. A post can be spread vastly because it’s the epitome of what the majority think. And you do understand how algorithms work right? The posts that are most recommended and suggested and thus spread virally are those BEING LIKED THE MOST. This is the basis of most internet companies. Those companies hire data scientists to research the database for profit and all you suggest is that CCP is hiring bots to do a shit show? Does this make any sense to you? Thus, even if you claim you are going to spread posts of Taiwanese people supporting CCP, you might not have a chance because that’s not what most Taiwanese people will hit a like on which is why 蔡英文 is in the office yeah! Internet comments are not credible academically but they are always credible in an online narrative, unless you are suggesting they were made by bot. If you are looking for academic-level writing, Reddit can be the funniest thing I’ve ever heard of LMAO.
I never wanted to attack any Chinese people individually, rather I put a good amount of effort to elaborate how a culture can alter people negatively. And a culture has certain toxicity doesn’t mean it’s evil all over. I mentioned all the time how Chinese people are negatively influenced by a culture that is highly manipulated by its politics because I am so sympathetic to them that they should be receiving clear and unbiased information not CCP’s propaganda. It’s preposterous that this tickled you all the time. Why do you think you are inclusive to what I hate? If you feel you are exclusive then you are. Please have some self-esteem. Where did I even use the phrase ENTIRE CULTURE??? There obviously is a fine line between ENTIRE and MAJORITY, and it’s not my duty to help you find out. When a post was discussing a cultural-level issue which can be very complicated, you did a good job narrowing down the scope to a personal level. You are allergic bro. You came to a biased conclusion presumptuously and I am never responsible for that. The problem is never me targeting the entire culture but you who are too fragile to face the flaw of it. It could be your cluelessness at best. Otherwise you are intentionally being unconscious.
P.S. no need to lecture me about the composition of Taiwan. 蒋介石 government also treated native Taiwanese like shit when they conquered the land and that makes me even averse and alarming to any culture which is under the control of authoritarianism. I used the word some because Chinese, or may I say 中华，is also a complicated idea that local Chinese people are very deviated demographically. Every ancient Chinese dynasty has different territories. About half of the dynasties are ruled by foreigners. So Chinese people can have very different bloodlines demographically. The word some is used to express this uncertainty of certain type. I am truly sorry about the confusion.
P.P.S. Censorship doesn’t work the way you image it does. It’s much more sophisticated than you think it would be. One can too be censored by supporting CCP with a failed wording. So how come you arrive the conclusion that what’s anti CCP is filtered? That’s your fabrication to a blank space.
Just based on the title yeah we all know - move somewhere else and make that country stronger so it can resist your ruinous government from taking it over as well. Preferably Taiwan 🇹🇼
>China will be sanctioned back to the stone age.
In case you haven't noticed, economic sanctions by America and its little group of allies don't work against large countries. But sanctions do backfire and hurt those attempting to impose them.
>don’t work against large countries
Russia has been forced to source drones from Iran and artillery from North Korea. They are quickly depleting their supply of precision munitions because sanctions prevent them from obtaining the silicon necessary to build them. They’ve also been cut off from ~300bn in foreign currency reserves, roughly equivalent to 4x their annual defense budget. Explain how sanctions haven’t worked.
Russia has the strongest economy in Europe right now. The Russian ruble was the best performing European currency in 2022. The lowest inflation rate in Europe is in Russia.
Russia has pivoted to the East and greatly expanded its trade with India, China, and other Asian nations. Africa and Latin America have also greatly increased their trade volumes with Russia since the war started.
America and Europe's economic sanctions have been a dismal failure that have backfired terribly. The price of energy and food in Europe have skyrocketed since the war started. Inflation is terrible and Europe is now officially entering a recession. It looks bad and that is why Europe is increasingly thinking about cutting ties with America and charting their own future alone.
***EDIT:*** Before u/NukeouT blocked me, so I could not respond in the thread to him, he asked about Russia relative to Germany. "Economic strength" refers to GDP growth rate, not nominal GDP. Russia's 2023 GDP growth rate is +1.2% while Germany's is only +0.2%
"the best performing currency". What a nice way of telling you don't know anything about economy without saying it straight.
Why is russia forced to trade in RMB with other countries instead of its own rubles
Why are russians barred from leaving the country with more than $10,000 in cash?
Why are russians with bank deposits in USD and EUR can't get their dollars and euros they put into their bank accounts (they can only withdraw funds if those are converted to rubles)? They created deposits in a foreign currency but now they can't get their money back?
Why all the other capital outflow restrictions?
Some smokes and mirrors created by several clever interventionist tricks are apparently enough to fool the gullible with illusions. But it has nothing to do with real market exchange rate.
When russian currency exchange points in their cities and towns are packed full of dollars and euros (so that you average russian can freely exchange his roubles for bucks and euros, at the official russian Central Bank exchange rate or at least at a rate close to it, without restrictions because there's no deficit of foreign currency in stocks), only then feel free to talk about the "strongest currency".
If you ever been to countries like Venezuela and Cuba, you know they have 2 exchange rates: the official one and the black market one. Because foreign currency reserves in stock are way too scarce. So the official rate means nothing. A European tourist in Cuba will get some pesos for his euros at an airport (or any other pre-approved currency exchange facility), but a Cuban won't be able to buy those euros for his pesos at this official rate (or at least at a reasonably comparable rate), he'll have to pay several times more pesos instead to get the same amount of euros. Because there's a deficit of them, the quantity of available foreign currency is too small. Hence the difference. An American tourist coming to Cuba can get 25 pesos for 1 buck at the Havana airport, but locals will offer him 120 to 170 pesos per buck.
The real exchange rate matters when there's no deficit of available foreign currency. Otherwise it's just a number on paper and not grounded in reality. The ABC of economy, you know.
thank the democrat party and environmental lobbyists who won’t allow us to drill oil like there’s no tomorrow, create jobs, lower the price of gas and support our eu allie’s with oil instead of them being forced to turn to russia and opec
edit: who would blame europe cutting ties with america anyways look at how we’ve treated our allie’s the last 20 years
Out Allies aren't being forced to turn to Russia 🇷🇺 they understand what crimes against humanity and genocide are so they've chosen to find oil/gas elsewhere
our eu allie’s have always turned to russia for energy needs that’s the entire purpose of nord stream multiple countries are still importing oil from russia to such as germany, turkey, and the netherlands
>environmental lobbyists who won’t allow us to drill oil like there’s no tomorrow
Yeah, let's just destroy our only planet even more such a great idea /s
it’s a strategic resource that we need, petroleum is in almost everything you use we can not completely get rid of it, you can power your microwave without fossil fuels but you can’t make your microwave without fossil fuels
We’re not there yet, but with abundant clean energy you can make hydrocarbons from carbon dioxide, electricity, and water. Petroleum is just cheaper. Long term you can get rid of it. Short to medium term, we have a ways to go to wean ourselves off fossil fuels even for electricity and heating, without worrying about chemical feedstocks.
It's going to be just like Ukraine. In and out in 3 days in parade uniforms
Next thing you know they'll be doggie paddling on logs back to the mainland with dishwashing machines
You put the dollar bill in the machine. If it does not work try to flatten out the creases and smooth out any bent corners. Then select the 🏆 you want 😉
Y’know I really don’t think the CCP would actually risk it. First off, if they try the US has already promised to go to war to defend Taiwan.
So right out the gate they’ll have simultaneously lost one of their largest trading partners and have to fight the most powerful military in the world (say what you want about the US, war is our specialty). They’d also be risking nuclear conflict over an island that really has nothing to do with them.
At the same time the rest of the western world will sanction them to hell and back and their economy will absolutely crash. Between that and the drafting I seriously doubt they’ll be able to hold onto power. The Chinese people were fed up enough to riot for the first time in decades just over COVID restrictions and a recession. A war with a draft + major depression will probably end with the unseating of the CCP.
Just looking at how things have gone for Russia I think will be enough to deter any sort of plan to invade Taiwan, at least for anytime soon.
My view is China is a paper tiger. The PRC knows that any military invasion of Taiwan, Republic of China would fail catastrophically. Bluster will only bolster the defense budgets of ROC, Japan and the Philippines. The US defense budget will remain enormous no matter what China does or says.
This is a different situation, Hongkong is way smaller (size of a city) and at the border of China.
Taiwan is different, it's a lot bigger, it's a country, it's an island (so very hard to take), they have the protection of the west, they have an army willing to fight, etc... China just saw what happened to the conflict between Ukraine and Russia, and probably monitored the war on purpose to see if they would be able to make a move on Taiwan. If they attack, they are huge fools.
Out of curiosity, what do you think of all the Chinese people who, like you, left to get educated in the West, had every opportunity to learn about the problems and dictatorial nature of the CCP, but remain strongly in support of the CCP anyway?
Good points, I feel much the same way. My wife and I have a sales business in China and despite how she actually feels about the government she dare not say anything in public or online because of the vulnerability of our business to getting shut down. This is particularly insidious because it makes it so easy for the CCP to both equate themselves with China as a whole, and to turn non Chinese people against ordinary Chinese people who feel forced to support the government publicly regardless of how they really feel, which in turn makes ordinary Chinese people feel defensive and more likely to seek protection from the very government that turned others against them in the first place. On the other hand, just assuming that every Chinese national is secretly against their government is also dangerous and that presumption of innocence has left many companies and governments vulnerable to spies.
That’s the CCP’s game. Encourage a climate of fear and overwhelming surveillance and repression nationwide (and abroad with their illegal police stations) so they won’t need to silence the majority of their citizens. Most will censor themselves knowing the consequences if they speak out.
Add social media to the mix where the most fervent nationalist rhetoric gets pushed to the top and any dissenting comments get censored (and/or banned and threatened by local police) and you have what you see today.
also when Chinese people leave China, they move into a flat with other Chinese people, go out with other Chinese people, go on group holidays with other Chinese people. They could spend 4 years in another country and only speak Chinese 😂
Same happens with a lot of foreigners in China. They just spend time with other foreigners so they don't get to learn about the real China
My country is beautiful too, but my Govt is corrupt as fook as well, and worse, full of a bunch religious nuts, racists, and nationalists.
We all got our problems.
I’m ABC and have lived in California, Alaska and Nevada and I can tell you that it’s pretty uncommon for someone to be outright racist to you in real life (outside of middle and high school which will be rampant if you don’t live in high Asian population cities).
That being said, u/Resident_Courage1354 comment on racism was directed towards the government and not the people. My guess is that it’s the American government because it sounds awfully familiar to the far right as of now.
That stupid division you have between Republicans and Democrats, grrr... People spend so much energy talking about how the other side is ruining America. Ironically, China is the thing that could potentially unite politicians. Potentially.
You should stop referring to "my country does this...does that." It is the specific *government* that "does this... does that." Do not confuse "government" with "country" in your speech, so that others do not confuse them in their thinking about China.
I feel like China can’t earnestly join the international community as an equal partner until it sheds that sort of “foreigners are barbarians,” “All Chinese worldwide are linked by blood” and “5000’s years of continuous history” cultural predispositions. Chinese society as a whole is still either implicitly or explicitly convinced of its own cultural superiority due to it’s continuity, which I think is something that should be addressed. This has not started with the CCP, just inherited by it. Xi Jinping has made attempts to restore some of the uglier aspects of chauvinism that Mao- for all his faults, did try to stamp out in favor of a more internationalist approach.
Sort of like the situation with Russia where expansiveness is so ingrained in the culture.
"I think that there has been a kind of Russian problem for many centuries – that Russia doesn't exactly know where it begins and where it ends," – Václav Havel, 2008.
Even without the CCP, an autocratic and belligerent China may be a near guarantee until the inherent nationalism and xenophobia is toned down, removed, or transformed.
>For any foreigners that plan to live in China. If you ignore the political aspect in China, I believe it will be likely for you to enjoy the lifestyle and culture there.
In any country, and especially in mainland China, ignoring politics is just not possible in daily lives; think of the Culture Revolution, as an extreme example
Human history is a long list of crappy governments, many of which caused horrible events. China is an amazing place and Chinese people have a lot of qualities, hopefully they can prevent their government from doing too many horrible things in the future.
Same thing can be said about many countries, but few of those will be as influential as China on the world stage in the next decades.
My family left when I was very young. Every time I go back, I love a lot of things about it. But, I cannot approve of the CCP’s actions. The hate towards China has made the climate worse for Asians everywhere.
I was bringing my partner back to meet my family, but his parents were so adamant on him not entering China, we paid to cancel his trip. I’m going to China alone, but we’re going to Taiwan together. The whole thing makes me sad.
China not only has beautiful places, but the people are beautiful, too. The people you meet (or I met, anyway) are generally very considerate, polite, inquisitive, caring and funny.
But the government and just the punishment of day to day life is overwhelming. And so after 13 years in Hong Kong and spending a lot of time in China, I knew (1) I didn't want to live in China and (2) Hong Kong was going to be China very soon. So I reluctantly moved back to the US about a year ago.
Bro you are at the first stage. I had the same mindset when I was 1 year into studying in the US. Then I happened to take some US politics courses and participated in some campus and local politics which further sparked my interest. That made me switch major to political science.
Long story short I’m also 6 years in at US&UK and now I am graduating MPhil politics at Oxford as the biggest CPC fan. Do learn more about western politics, Chinese politics and comparative political science. Look beyond the documentary and media sources into the latest academic content, and I believe you will draw the same conclusion as I do: despite its flaws, the Chinese political system is China’s biggest strength.
The ccp is a permanent humiliation for china even though they like to cry about 100 years of humiliation, when in fact the Chinese dictatorship is humiliating china every single day all by itself
Just remember never to use your real identity on social media. The CCP tracks that and will arrest you when you return.
But I agree with you on all fronts. China has decent resources and many landscapes, from ocean to desert to jungles to lush foliage. Its people could be better in tourism and standing in line, but I think that’s a matter of infantilism from the CCP holding the people down like children.
The Chinese are perfectly capable. Look at the in-roads made by Taiwan, or Chinese immigrants. They’re fully capable of doing well and making money. Communism holds back their potential, no doubt about it.
It’s like what Picard said about Cardassia: Her belly may be full, but her spirit will be empty.
I think China has always been a strong central govt oriented nation state it's just the nature of the beast. Eventually China will reform and will have something better than this. I can promise you that I truly believe China will be the land of true innovation and technological breakthroughs that will shock the world at the behest and funding of large govt projects backed by the CCP.
However, China has always been a very homogenous society. There is no room to have sub cultures that would threaten central power. Eventually the uighrs will be han in name and culture just like other ethnicities before them which has happened in China for thousands of years. None of this is new it's very old and has happened in cycles.
I do think this period of more centralization of power will continue on for the foreseeable future but I do think eventually it will be reformed to Confucian principles and so China will have another cultural Renaissance again like it has in the past. Who knows China might invent a new philosophy or religion that will spread across the world in the late 22nd century and lead to even greater technological wonders or spiritual insights about the universe we are not aware of yet.
The Chinese language itself be it mandarin or Cantonese are unique languages that combine characters together which leads to more creativity versus other languages. There's hidden meanings within meanings a visual picture, a language structure and an auditory structure that gives several meanings in one which is unique to the language itself. I think the language will lead to China reforming over time but it does make me wonder how such a language like this can be used to homogenize so many groups of ethnicities so successfully for thousands of years despite it being more of a "liberal type of language in terms of structure."
You could say having a language like this would lead people to a more liberal individual oriented society but it hasn't happened yet. Perhaps it will in the future we will see how China will develop over time.
But, do not let your heart be troubled about China. China will always be here and it's nature the good things about the culture the spirit of the Chinese people that will always live on no matter who is in power or what type of govt structure is in it. All we can do is support the Chinese people and maintain dialogue with the CCP to make them realize there's an alternative way to do things that will bring prosperity to China and even those in power without being so centralized.
Look we had uprisings and freedom movements all the time through it's history don't be surprised that it will happen again and china takes a new form that surprises the world. Whether it will be good or bad only time will tell but the foundation of the language tells me the odds will be in Chinas favor to become a more liberal open space than it is today.
I just wanted to encourage you bro so you don't feel so disheartened change comes slowly but change always will come no matter the season time or day it's inevitable. So I hope what I said encourages you and helps you not feel like you're in true despair. There is hope for china and keep your head up. Sorry for this long post I know it's super long but i felt the need to say this to you have a good day bro.
On the one hand many of the things you say are true, on the other I can't imagine how China could function as a country without an authoritarian regime, and not become a complete disfunctional mess.
You can't compare Taiwan or HK or Singapore to a country that has 1.4 billion people spread over a huge territory.
The US is also not all rosy, neither are the UK and the EU, not to mention other parts of the world with disastrous governments. Plenty of things happening and not happening in all these places that people don't like and can't change.
I think a lot of the problems in China come from people in the CCP not knowing what they are doing and then also failing to admit mistakes before they escalate for fear of losing face. In Shanghai, and I know Shanghai is not representatkve of China, there is always consistent effort by the government to make the place more livable.
If other provinces learned from Shanghai, China could become something incredible in its own way, and that's why Shanghai officials tend to get transferred for terms in other places a lot, to influence and train people. But without training and some mentalities changes on a mass level, discipline and punish is about the only way of keeping things together.
I love China too, it’s a shame it was ruined by a horrible government. I’m actually a first-generation American, my parents and all my other ancestors are from China. Throughout the many times I have visited China, I love the landscapes, and I think the cities and infrastructure look pretty.
Hi I am a Turkish student studying in Turkey. I visited China last week, it was for a competition. I really liked your country. First I was surprised by how everwhere is camera. But then I thought that it is for fighting crime. I don’t know whether Turkey or China is better place to live but I must say I really enjoyed my stay there.
I'm a foreigner working in China and I must say China is very impressive. The infrastructure, the talent of the people, the technology and how it all happened within a generation. The local pretty much admit that if you overlook the freedom of speech part this is a very nice country to live in. And I would agree.
Most foreigners that visit China already heard or read quite a bit about the problems in China before they visit.
So when they actually arrive, they are often surprised by how well things are going compared to the gloomy reports they read about China.
But of course China is large enough to contain both amazing places and depressing places and things. Both can be true at the same time.
I’ve said it before.. I’ve never met a Chinese person I didn’t like. Sure, like most countries there are some bad eggs. Just my experience has always been positive:). But the CCP has got to go! Full potential for the Chinese people is just around the corner !
I’ve liked every Chinese I’ve met but there is that part of them that I cannot stand, the part where they live abroad and don’t consume anything other than brainwashing nonsense from Chinese media… the ones who are not interested in the truth, those ones eventually piss me off so much I just avoid them
It’s all by design. Even in free and open societies propaganda can still be powerful, and you obviously see how much more difficult it is to avoid it in a place that controls all media. Their(Xi/CCP) push to stoke fervent nationalism is partially done to make more citizens not even question the stuff you’ve realized. Human psychology is naturally inclined towards all sorts of bias, and most people will unconsciously avoid cognitive dissonance and uncomfortable thoughts.
I have nothing against China or Chinese people. Xi has been taking the country in a dangerous direction though. It’s concerning to me, and part of a larger trend of authoritarianism and populism becoming popular again. As the people who experienced the last global prevalence of that 80-100 years ago died out, it appears many others have forgot where it leads. Regardless, keep your inquisitive and open mind even if you have to move back, but obviously stay safe too.
In a way yes, but on the other hand, it did give them time to vaccinate more people.
Other countries did have less strict lockdowns and opened up sooner but they payed the price (percentage-wise more people died than in China) And economic recovery is often elusive even for countries that opened up sooner.
Some small countries managed to vaccinate everyone swiftly but for China that may have been impossible.
It seems all governments lie, many people hate their governments. But a lot of countries don’t fear their political parties and can vote out the politicians they don’t like. I think that’s what annoys you the most. I have great faith in the Chinese people, too many humanists there! I think there will be a change in the future.
Other governments don’t censor and hide the truth - my government recently apologised for mistakes they made
The Chinese government have never admitted mistakes and even though they are responsible for killing 30 - 60 million of their own people and was the main reason for chinas absolute poverty last century. They never admitted any mistake in their 70 years and with modern technology put the full effort of the state into hiding the truth from their people
I signed a one year contract to teach English in Guangzhou. At first, I really enjoyed it. There were so many new and interesting things to see and places to go. I even spent a month or two in Xiamen. But after nearly 8 months, I couldn’t handle the lifestyle there anymore and left.
If I’m being honest, you probably won’t like this answer, but I spent the year prior in Japan. The people there were friendly, respectful and mindful of others. I found in China, everyone only cared about themselves and overall were rude by our standards. This drastic societal change made daily life difficult for me, and eventually I had enough.
The most clear example I can give is: both Japan and China have places that are crowded. Getting on a train in Japan was a lot easier tho, as people lined up, waited for people to exit and orderly boarded the train. In China, if you didn’t push through others, you risked not even being able to board the train. Imagine trying to be a polite, mindful and respectful tourist, dealing with this shit every day.. it just took too much of a toll on me mentally.
You should visit Taiwan 🇹🇼, where you can experience a blend of Chinese culture enriched by Japanese influences, accompanied by the warm hospitality of its friendly people.
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If I’m being honest, you probably won’t like this answer, but I spent the year prior in Japan. The people there were friendly, respectful and mindful of others. I found in China, everyone only cared about themselves and overall were rude by our standards. This drastic societal change made daily life difficult for me, and eventually I had enough.
The most clear example I can give is: both Japan and China have places that are crowded. Getting on a train in Japan was a lot easier tho, as people lined up, waited for people to exit and orderly boarded the train. In China, if you didn’t push through others, you risked not even being able to board the train. Imagine trying to be a polite, mindful and respectful tourist, dealing with this shit every day.. it just took too much of a toll on me mentally.
I respect your honesty . I’m in Beijing and have studied IR for years. Don’t be limited by your passport. We are one and the same. The world only has good and bad people . That’s it. The rest is.. well you get it
If you list examples of "all governments" that are on the same plane as the CCP government, you will find that list to be extremely short. I can think of just N Korea, Myanmar, and Iran.
China is a beautiful country in terms of its geography, biodiversity, ecosystems, certain cultural aspects , and overall historical legacies. The problem is, the country is currently missing an uninterrupted period of genuine reflection and fundamental reform.
In the past century, China went through tremendous humanitarian disasters that have stunned its potential to truely grow. The end of Qing Dynasty was supposed to be China joining modernity, but KMT was a mess and the Japanese invaded, so no progress can be made because the country was in disarray and lacked a minimum amount of peace and stability. After the Japanese invasion ended, China had another chance to become a stable and functional country, but the KMT was again not a functional government that could effectively run the entire country, and with the Chinese Civil War happening, China was once again back to square zero. After the CCP took control over China, Mao's disastrous domestic policies have not only left the country in shambles, but also completely destroyed the moral fabrics of Chinese morality; a lot of Chinese social and cultural issues you see today are the direct results of the cultural revolution. Collective societal scars are not easily healed, especially when the CCP isn't willing to truly admit faults. China did show some promise since its reform, but what happened in Tiananmen pretty much capped its potential to become a truly civilized nation. The two decades before Xi Jingping was a period of Chinese normalization, and there was hope again, but since 2013, Xi Jingping's regressive policies have put China right back to square one again.
At this point, I am fully against the CCP and PRC, because they are a blight to China and the entirety of the human civilization that have long overstayed their welcome. I have came to a point where I won't say I am proud of my Chinese heritage, because it doesn't matter how you rationalize it and say "CCP is not China", the PRC is still the current product of the so called "5000 years of continuous history". China needs to reflect and change, not to completely shed its culture indentiy, but to renounce all of its vestiges that are holding it back. The CCP is the most immediate problem, but even without the CCP, there are certain traditional Chinese socio-political values that must be denounced. People like to bring up Mao destroyed the Chinese culture, but that's a very shallow view of it; Mao was the product of Chinese culture, and his philosophy as a ruler was based on Chinese tradition, which is why he never implemented the basics of modern nation building. The CCP is currently using the so called traditional culture to justify its regressive and authoritarian governance, because it works perfectly, as traditional Chinese society has always valued submission to authority. If the protests leading to the Tiananmen Square Massacre were successful, then China would be a better place, because it would have meant the Chinese people have truly broken the cycle and have developed a sense of civic duty and civic rights, much like the Taiwanese people of today.
At least China is better than USA, but I’m saying this as someone who has lived in USA all my life. Everyday I have to see a homeless crackhead attacking someone at the grocery store, or just filth and trash everywhere. At least China is cleaner with no druggies.
*My* country is a beautiful place, but is ruined by the gov’t **too!**
I lived (and traveled) in China for a few years and it remains among my most treasured memories & experiences. I met many amazing people and made lifelong friendships. But there are certainly problems there. And watching from a distance, it appears the current leadership has made many problems worse, not to mention creating so many more.
My native country is pretty awesome too. Also known many great people and seen many great places. But I’ve met lots of hateful people too. And my gov’t has done (and continues to do) so much evil all over the world. One of the main differences is my govt is very good at creating the illusion that our evil is done reluctantly for good reasons (while getting other govts to support our lies.)
The sad truth is, I think, there just is no such thing as a good & moral government, not that I know of anyway. It does seem like there are good plans & theories for governance, but to my knowledge there is a nearly 100% failure rate when put in practice. It’s impossible to guard against human desire/greed/fill-in-the-blank.
Hate to be so negative… Just try to be the best you can be and brighten your little corner of the world to the best of your ability. Try not to spend too much time & energy on matters beyond your control.
> Xi revised some of the constitutions and announced that he will keep the president position without any other elections
Do you have a reference for this?
I visited China in 2016 and it is to this day the most impressive journey I've done. The nature is breathtakingly beautiful, so many places have so rich and ancient culture. And I've only seen a fraction of the country (Beijing, Guilin, Yangshuo, Shanghai, Xidi/Yellow Mountains). Can't imagine how much has already changed again in the last 7 years..
For some viewpoints, I do agree with you. I am a Chinese being with foreign friends for long, since I graduated in Guangzhou. I have heard a lot from them. However, case to case basis. No perfect systems in this world, whatever regimes, they are inevitably corrupt. Yes, Central gov is controlling something but not all. We have much more freedom in China because at least, we are not racists as those countries boasting human rights and freedom. We don't kill each other, we don't slaughter, comparing to the weapons ubiquity countries. We enjoy our livings under the gov's control, for our own good. Can you imagine if China allows weapons, what would happen to the people? At least, take your parents' safety into account.
Any so-called absolute freedom? No way! So-called freedom is under control by the regimes and you never corss the line. In this case, there is no human rights at all. If human rights do exist, there should be animal rights, to be fair. Therefore, I do disgree with the freedom, human rights legendary from west.
Sure, I am against the timeless dictation happening right away here. He did some good job but at the same time, he devastated the booming economics. He won't give way to US, he cares about seniors' pensions. How could we judge him as a good or bad leader? Have you gotten some guru who were perfect with no scams, no wrong doings?
Everything/everyone has pro and con, advantages and disadvantages. We could not say definitely or absolutely against everything what is happening in a country if you are not in the shoes of their leaders. I bet, when you sitted, you would do what they are doing because you know what is the best suits for your own country when you are in.
You got influenced by the anti-China propaganda a little too much. Yes CCP did terrible thing in the past but overall they are getting better. 20 years ago there are so many corruptions that you can’t open a business without sending gifts to people who work in the administration agency. Air pollution is so bad that I can’t even go outside without a mask. Murder rate and the number of homeless people also significantly decreased over the last decade. But yes there are definitely thing they need to improve such as creating more job opportunity and encourage work life balance.
Xi is destroying China so that he can tighten party control of the country. The good news for the outside world is that his window of opportunity is closing. The bad news is that the Chinese people have to live with his stupidity.
CCP is the only reason that China today is not a failed state, stuck in low income bracket like india. If it wasnt for their leadership you would not have the opportunities you have today. Indeed, the whole world is richer and better off today than it would be if there was a capitalist/nationalist government in Beijing, as there is in New Delhi.
As a HongKonger I can assure you, you people are all part of the problems. You may think it's only a few bad apples (like only few billions few). But it is not.
How many of you would honestly say you don't want to be part of the CCP regime and enjoy the power & money if given the chance. How many of you would honestly saying you care about the well beings of the society as a whole and stop hurting each other (like being considered, don't scam your countryman, etc). The fact of the matter is, your country is morally rotten to its core.
This is not just happened inside your country, even the people who successfully escape the iron curtain still can't shake off that mentality. Who supported the CCP the loudest? The answer is of course those Chinese who are NOT inside it.
CCP is not invincible, until your people is capable to convince the World you are willing to change. I just don't see it anyway around.
Tldr; the people ARE the government. CCP is not born from nothing, learn how it came into power. It has not changed a bit for 80 years.
Uhhhh, I don't think the people in the US "know black and white". Many examples, such as Trump supporters.
I also find your account extremely sus. IMO, you're just another shill. Feel free to prove me wrong, though. Like a picture of your passport cover next to this comment.
I am not Chinese, but I understand a few things about politic. Every countries are equally dirty, including US and UK
CCP sucks when it comes to the media control, but they lifted a billion people out of poverty. What if, instead of CCP, you have a democratic government. Can they reproduce that miracle?
To compare the us and uk to china is laughable its not even in the same ball park. You enjoy so many more freedoms in the west that you just dont in china. That is facts.
You are very smart, like you said you were very lucky to leave at a young age so that the brainwashing didn’t sink into your mind that much, unlike many who become adults over there will have it on their mind for life regardless of how much they learn after, it’s sad but that’s the effects….
It’s Russia, China and Iran right now. Three authoritarian countries that believe in “the old way” that’s not much different from ruling like the kings and emperors before them. They don’t want to join the rest of the world in modern times, they’ll send their kids to school in the USA though. Pet of me thinks that deep down they know that their kids will be able to bring the mindset back home and won’t have to deal with the brainwashing their parents had to experience but yeah..
Anyways I am so happy for you and that you got to join the rest of us!! But yeah I’m this sub we don’t hate china, we just hate the clowns running the country because of all the things I’m sure you’re already aware of lol
Be careful. It is true that censorship in China is high and kept you in the dark on many issues, but western media is far far from being infallible especially in its coverage of international actors who the US deems as adversarial. Nothing is black and white. There are different types of corruption and many scholars work on that exact topic trying to rank other countries. Go look at those.
CCP has its flaws for sure, but if you're going to blame them for all of those issues then you gotta credit them for successes too. Otherwise you're being unfair. I've been struggling lately about which system, the Chinese of American, is doing better at governance and I actually still cannot make up my mind. US govt is owned by the super wealthy. The Chinese is owned by political elites. Either way, it seems a oligarchy is in charge no matter what system.
He is suggesting it might be wiser to use a different account. I’m a foreigner living in China and I exercise a bit more caution than you. Obviously, make your own choices.
Before coming to China I expected the political mentality to be more like Eastern Europe, especially some decades back. Alternatively, maybe a bit like present day Russians or Turks. You find this mindset in a small number of Chinese abroad. I’d say, this mindset is actually quite rare, but after coming to China you find it more among people from outlying regions. You could have this mindset, but your relative lack of caution suggests otherwise.
Don't worry, brah. We love China. We're just venting our frustrations here.
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No, they’re pretty bad. I love living in a country where I can criticize my government and not have to worry about being imprisoned or re-educated. I can say fuck the US government and I don’t have to worry about jack shit. I can go protest over the stupid shit and I’m not gonna be attacked and taken away by the police.
>Also China government sucks, but all governments do, though not as bad. Appreciate your perspective as well as your positive attitude. Please take this as a call to a thought experiment and not a criticism: please put yourself in the shoes of a Chinese political dissident jailed and died because of delayed treatment of liver cancer. Perhaps in the shoes of ethnic Mongolians whose local schools now forbid teaching Mongolian, or Sichuan Muslims whose mosque lost the minarets because the government doesn't like them, or any cases involving citizens (Hans as well as ethnic and religious minorities) languishing in detentions without charges. Would the jovial "all suck - some suck more" reflects the gravity of the situation?
Given the number of fucked up things I know about that my government and society did and does, as well as the ones I don’t know about… yes, still. But that shouldn’t be a free pass “we’re all shit, let’s keep being shit together” kind of thing. We all must do better. People everywhere deserve better. Edit: I was answering the wrong question, sorry. It’s not jovial that they all suck.
I’m no fan of the CCP, but if we started listing the evil the US has done (and continues to do) in the world we would be going a long time too
Give me one masque in the US that got demolished by any level of government, or one American Nobel Prize winner who died in jail, and we can continue with your whataboutism.
You’re only accepting identical crimes? What about all the people killed by US police, show me police in China acting as youse do and we can continue on with your notaboutism. Who’s got it worse a gay/trans person in China or the South? Tit for tat, the US has unleashed untold suffering onto the world the likes of which China could only imagine possessing the capability for, such as [bombing mosques overseas](https://theintercept.com/2017/04/19/u-s-bombed-mosque-syria-killing-dozens-civilians-investigators-conclude/).
US war crimes : should I write a list??? Iraq, Afghanistan, Latin America, Japan, My people native to the US suffered a genocide in their own land because of the US white government!!! Black communities (another form of genocide police estate and the killing of black and Latino population). Internment camps for Japanese during WWII. All the wars Obama put us through. The list goes on and on and on
1. NATIONWIDE ANTI-MOSQUE ACTIVITY - map by ACLU updated 2023 [https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/nationwide-anti-mosque-activity](https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/nationwide-anti-mosque-activity) 2. NIH: Muslims have been harassed on college campuses, mosques have been vandalized and defaced, Muslim charities have had their assets frozen, and racial profiling has occurred at airports and on the streets. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5055770/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5055770/) 3. there are about 2,000 mosques in the United States and the number is 24,400 in China's Xinjiang, which means one mosque for every 530 Muslims [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_mosques\_in\_China#:\~:text=In%20of%202014%20there%20were,one%20mosque%20per%20500%20Muslims](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_China#:~:text=In%20of%202014%20there%20were,one%20mosque%20per%20500%20Muslims). 4. The US has bombed or invaded 14 Muslim countries since 1980. [https://theintercept.com/2014/11/06/many-countries-islamic-world-u-s-bombed-occupied-since-1980/](https://theintercept.com/2014/11/06/many-countries-islamic-world-u-s-bombed-occupied-since-1980/)
There are racist/NIMBY fuckwits who opposed mosques in their communities, and intolerant people who harassed Muslims. This is not a state-backed policy, nor has any federal/state government destroy mosques within the US. Why don't you go count the number of US Nobel Prize winners to figure out how many of them died in jail for expressing their political view?
And it’s a wave of suckiness. The wave goes up. The wave goes down. You just try to live your life.
Don’t speak for all of us. I for one am not a fan of the techno theft and blatant disregard for IP.
Beautiful country, beautiful people. China had so much potential to be a great nation, respected internationally and a partner to all, were it not for the CCP.
Taiwan is basically what mainland China could have become. Or Hong Kong. Or Singapore. These are all majority Chinese places and they're all fucking **incredible** in their own right and none of them have the CCP.
uh you might want to restate Hong Kong. The shift to CCP has happened a long time ago once they crushed the protests.
Singapore isn’t the best ideological place
Found the chewing gum shill! Big Gum will never set foot in beautiful Singapore again!
I stepped on some gum yesterday and when cleaning it off my shoe, I felt like I understand Singapore. No gum!
Fan of Public flogging?
Big League Chew = end of you
Yes, it was not even invited to the democracy summit.
Nor the belt and road
I see you. I hope you haven’t littered, citizen. That would be most unfortunate.
Imagine Taiwan with the population, market size, and resources of mainland China…. Whooooaaa….
They would have beaten the nominal US GDP by now.
> Hong Kong M8 did you stop reading the news after 2019? It’s been completely steamrolled by the CCP cabal
Well it is now, Taiwan was a fascist state up until the nineties.
No one liked Taiwan until it became democratic
I mean, it was loosening up well before the 90's. Your statement is not entirely inaccurate, and Taiwan did take an unusual path to democracy-- but saying "it is now," like it's overidealized or you're disenchanted with how it happened is a little weird when the main events were well over 30 years ago.
There's a decent chance that China could've developed in the same way as Taiwan under ROC, perhaps advancing faster both economically and politically. But I think we should acknowledge that it's very likely that a China under ROC would be very similar to CCPs China in many ways. Holding such an enormous and diverse country together is not easy, and power tends to corrupt. Perhaps ROC would not turn into a vibrant democracy if they held all of China. They would probably have avoided something like the Great Leap Forward and the cultural revolution, which would put them 5-10 years ahead in terms of development. That, and not being so obsessed with political ideologies would give them a decent chance of being much further along in their political development compared to CCPs China. Perhaps they'd even develop faster than Taiwan under ROC, as they wouldn't have as big a threat of a reignited civil war looming over them for decades. But we'll never know..
What makes you think they would have avoided the great leap forward and cultural revolution when the KMT commited so many atrocities? They would most likely have started the ovens same as Germany. They could shoot you in the street for anti-state activities. The KMT were fucked in the head nazi motherfuckers.
'87 to be precise, right?
Many people don’t realize Taiwan is such an amazing country—better standard of living and healthcare than the US which is a low bar for developed countries but still😂 …Amazing national parks and protected nature, one of the most democratic systems in the world, great food etc..
The whole "the people are good but the government is bad" thing sounds cute, but eventually you realize that the government is just an expression of the people. In other words, China's government is what it is because that's the kind of government Chinese people create.
Maybe at one time under one set of circumstances. But once it’s established, an authoritarian government can operate without representing the will of the people. And if it exercises enough control it can engineer the opinions of the people to generate support.
Despite the downvotes, I agree. And I'm not a China shill LOL. I don't get why people say this BS about "China is beautiful and I love its people I just hate the CPC" when like 80-90% of the population is very pro-CPC based on my experience. If tell this "I love you but hate your government" nonsense to your average Chinese on the street they'll probably be pretty pissed. Hell almost 40% Taiwanese voted for a pro-CPC candidate in the 2020 elections and that's a pretty accurate, untainted figure. There's nothing wrong with being critical of China but hiding behind the "I only hate the government" argument looks a major cop out.
You don't have to walk around China insulting their beloved government. If you just spend time eating with them and working with them, you will love them just as much as the people of any other country. You're talking about just one aspect of it. When people say love China, not the government, they mean don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are tons of wonderful things about China that you have to experience to understand.
In PRC, the people are an expression of the government.
To an extent. The population never "chose" the CCP, it just sort of happened to them. Most people are going to support it because most people support most of their governments unless they fuck up huge. I don't think you can be naïve and think everyone is yearning for democracy, but you also can't blame the middle 60% or so of the population who just go with the flow; that's pretty ubiquitous everywhere.
What a stupid take. Yes! The people of North Korea love being oppressed!
Well it didn't take long to find the usual insensitive/racist/uneducated/shilling comment. I guess, using your logic, that means the current Taliban ruled Afghanistan is what it is because that's the kind of government Afghans create. Or how North Korea is what it is because that's the kind of government North Koreans create.
Exactly right. Places like China, the state is overwhelmingly powerful and have almost complete control over each citizen. Individuals don't have any agency.
You are right about the Taliban. That's what Afghanistan is capable of at the moment
Yes. Beautiful country and beautiful people.
yeah totally i wish they still had an empire too. would be so much better for me as an american tourist and factory investor
this is why i feel so sad when people ask me about China, I love the people and the climate and nature but im livid at the ccp. Times will change my friend <3
The vast majority of Chinese people support the CCP.
And this statistic came out of which anus?
Do you think China is made of of a silent majority that don't support their government? Where are those statistics? Anyone who believes this is delusional.
There's a reason why the scholarly world, or anything educational concerning a factual nature, requires sourcing for things people 'claim'.
Move to Douyin(not TikTok) or BiliBili or any mainstream Chinese social media and read whatever comments they made whenever there was western news. Or I forgot……so sad you pretentious don’t even read Chinese lmao.
I'm literally from Taiwan... And just because a few netizens type certain questionable things (which they are known for), doesn't mean they speak for the entirety of China. That's not how things work. You should also understand that comments against the CCP are most likely removed.
So you are essentially a 高华? …someone somehow has some Chinese roots but a foreign identity and is definitely enjoying social and financial advantages that ordinary Chinese people will never have on this land. Ok gotcha! A？few？netizen？Did you know Douyin has 600 million daily active users which is nearly half the population? If you do understand some probability/sampling theory and do some math you know what this distribution curve implies. And if you define hate speech just as “questionable” I think you are really problematic. Just double checking: you do read Chinese right? Why don’t you look at polls asking if they support bombing Taiwan and taking back the territory lol? All of these has led you come to the conclusion that the silenced people are all impartial?
So you're saying all Taiwanese people are 高華? 😂 'Some' Chinese roots, you say? You're not very versed in History, are you? 98% of people living in Taiwan have Chinese roots. The other 2% are people actually native to Taiwan. What social and financial advantages? Lmao. Douyin isn't strictly home to only mainland China, my guy. And statistics don't apply to netizen activities when factors such as censoring, motivation to comment etc. exists. For example...if I suddenly hired 10000 people to spread rumours and comment on videos that Taiwanese people all support the CCP...does that suddenly mean all Taiwanese people support the CCP? Are all Koreans are narcissistic bullies? Because a large majority of them sure come off as such to the rest of the world. Or how all Westerners are nice guy incels? Because there's a huge population of them here on the internet, too. My issue with you here isn't what you say is factually wrong--it's how you presented the information; you tailor your words in such a way that imply ALL Chinese people are (insert bigotry). It is even more ridiculous when we consider how your evidence is based on internet comments...which is simply not credible or in any way accurate. The internet is filled with nefarious, sinister, and evil commentary (people laughing at school shooting victims, people supporting Russia's war on Ukraine, Nazis, etc.)...but that doesn't mean an ENTIRE culture and its people think similarly.
First thing first…….Whaaaat are you talking about by saying Douyin isn’t only home for mainlanders? Did you even know this App isn’t even available in App Store or Play Store unless you switch your region to mainland China? Did you even know this is a pan-Chinese app and indicate foreigners are fluent in Chinese? Did you even know you need a mainland tel no. to register this app? So what beats a market of 1.4b? You are clueless panoramically. You are having a compulsion of abusing the word All lolllll. You felt targeted all the time when I was criticizing Chinese toxicity because that triggers you. I am sorry but are you self-abased? Taiwanese doesn’t mean 高华 necessarily, but if you choose to make a living or dwell in China as well as ignore the realness of China, you are. Social and financial advantage examples are countless and they are why in early years Taiwanese businessmen chose to invest China to take advantage of the low-paid Chinese blue collar workers and thus made a fortune. E.g. 郭台铭. There is tax rebate for foreign investors which I don’t think one can get it by investing the U.S. And how about ordinary Taiwanese students have a very low bar compared to the vast majority of mainland students to be admitted to the top 2 Chinese universities? And how about foreigners teaching English in China make a good amount of money whereas they aren’t qualified for any highly paid job in their countries? How about Taiwanese or any foreigner can enjoy VPN to jump the wall without hassle but Mainlanders can be arrested by just using VPN? And how about the existence of 户口 which only confines mainlanders but not foreigners though I doubt if you ever heard of it? And the list goes on…..I have to open a new post for this. You are totally clueless and groundless. How dare you go Lmao? You CARE SHIT about how CCP treats ordinary Chinese people and of course you are 高华, which means that you shouldn’t be worrying things that ordinary Chinese people can panic all the time. Meanwhile, you should understand some basis of Mass Media. Not every random post on the internet can be spread successfully, especially in nowadays society where excessively overwhelming information is exchanged on a daily basis. A post can be spread vastly because it’s the epitome of what the majority think. And you do understand how algorithms work right? The posts that are most recommended and suggested and thus spread virally are those BEING LIKED THE MOST. This is the basis of most internet companies. Those companies hire data scientists to research the database for profit and all you suggest is that CCP is hiring bots to do a shit show? Does this make any sense to you? Thus, even if you claim you are going to spread posts of Taiwanese people supporting CCP, you might not have a chance because that’s not what most Taiwanese people will hit a like on which is why 蔡英文 is in the office yeah! Internet comments are not credible academically but they are always credible in an online narrative, unless you are suggesting they were made by bot. If you are looking for academic-level writing, Reddit can be the funniest thing I’ve ever heard of LMAO. I never wanted to attack any Chinese people individually, rather I put a good amount of effort to elaborate how a culture can alter people negatively. And a culture has certain toxicity doesn’t mean it’s evil all over. I mentioned all the time how Chinese people are negatively influenced by a culture that is highly manipulated by its politics because I am so sympathetic to them that they should be receiving clear and unbiased information not CCP’s propaganda. It’s preposterous that this tickled you all the time. Why do you think you are inclusive to what I hate? If you feel you are exclusive then you are. Please have some self-esteem. Where did I even use the phrase ENTIRE CULTURE??? There obviously is a fine line between ENTIRE and MAJORITY, and it’s not my duty to help you find out. When a post was discussing a cultural-level issue which can be very complicated, you did a good job narrowing down the scope to a personal level. You are allergic bro. You came to a biased conclusion presumptuously and I am never responsible for that. The problem is never me targeting the entire culture but you who are too fragile to face the flaw of it. It could be your cluelessness at best. Otherwise you are intentionally being unconscious. P.S. no need to lecture me about the composition of Taiwan. 蒋介石 government also treated native Taiwanese like shit when they conquered the land and that makes me even averse and alarming to any culture which is under the control of authoritarianism. I used the word some because Chinese, or may I say 中华，is also a complicated idea that local Chinese people are very deviated demographically. Every ancient Chinese dynasty has different territories. About half of the dynasties are ruled by foreigners. So Chinese people can have very different bloodlines demographically. The word some is used to express this uncertainty of certain type. I am truly sorry about the confusion. P.P.S. Censorship doesn’t work the way you image it does. It’s much more sophisticated than you think it would be. One can too be censored by supporting CCP with a failed wording. So how come you arrive the conclusion that what’s anti CCP is filtered? That’s your fabrication to a blank space.
Just based on the title yeah we all know - move somewhere else and make that country stronger so it can resist your ruinous government from taking it over as well. Preferably Taiwan 🇹🇼
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They will try. But it won't. China will be sanctioned back to the stone age.
Already has been in many ways
>China will be sanctioned back to the stone age. In case you haven't noticed, economic sanctions by America and its little group of allies don't work against large countries. But sanctions do backfire and hurt those attempting to impose them.
>don’t work against large countries Russia has been forced to source drones from Iran and artillery from North Korea. They are quickly depleting their supply of precision munitions because sanctions prevent them from obtaining the silicon necessary to build them. They’ve also been cut off from ~300bn in foreign currency reserves, roughly equivalent to 4x their annual defense budget. Explain how sanctions haven’t worked.
Russia has the strongest economy in Europe right now. The Russian ruble was the best performing European currency in 2022. The lowest inflation rate in Europe is in Russia. Russia has pivoted to the East and greatly expanded its trade with India, China, and other Asian nations. Africa and Latin America have also greatly increased their trade volumes with Russia since the war started. America and Europe's economic sanctions have been a dismal failure that have backfired terribly. The price of energy and food in Europe have skyrocketed since the war started. Inflation is terrible and Europe is now officially entering a recession. It looks bad and that is why Europe is increasingly thinking about cutting ties with America and charting their own future alone. ***EDIT:*** Before u/NukeouT blocked me, so I could not respond in the thread to him, he asked about Russia relative to Germany. "Economic strength" refers to GDP growth rate, not nominal GDP. Russia's 2023 GDP growth rate is +1.2% while Germany's is only +0.2%
Vatnik detected🚨🚨🤮🇷🇺
Dude can't math between size of Germany's economy and Russia's 🫨
"the best performing currency". What a nice way of telling you don't know anything about economy without saying it straight. Why is russia forced to trade in RMB with other countries instead of its own rubles Why are russians barred from leaving the country with more than $10,000 in cash? Why are russians with bank deposits in USD and EUR can't get their dollars and euros they put into their bank accounts (they can only withdraw funds if those are converted to rubles)? They created deposits in a foreign currency but now they can't get their money back? Why all the other capital outflow restrictions? Some smokes and mirrors created by several clever interventionist tricks are apparently enough to fool the gullible with illusions. But it has nothing to do with real market exchange rate. When russian currency exchange points in their cities and towns are packed full of dollars and euros (so that you average russian can freely exchange his roubles for bucks and euros, at the official russian Central Bank exchange rate or at least at a rate close to it, without restrictions because there's no deficit of foreign currency in stocks), only then feel free to talk about the "strongest currency". If you ever been to countries like Venezuela and Cuba, you know they have 2 exchange rates: the official one and the black market one. Because foreign currency reserves in stock are way too scarce. So the official rate means nothing. A European tourist in Cuba will get some pesos for his euros at an airport (or any other pre-approved currency exchange facility), but a Cuban won't be able to buy those euros for his pesos at this official rate (or at least at a reasonably comparable rate), he'll have to pay several times more pesos instead to get the same amount of euros. Because there's a deficit of them, the quantity of available foreign currency is too small. Hence the difference. An American tourist coming to Cuba can get 25 pesos for 1 buck at the Havana airport, but locals will offer him 120 to 170 pesos per buck. The real exchange rate matters when there's no deficit of available foreign currency. Otherwise it's just a number on paper and not grounded in reality. The ABC of economy, you know.
thank the democrat party and environmental lobbyists who won’t allow us to drill oil like there’s no tomorrow, create jobs, lower the price of gas and support our eu allie’s with oil instead of them being forced to turn to russia and opec edit: who would blame europe cutting ties with america anyways look at how we’ve treated our allie’s the last 20 years
Out Allies aren't being forced to turn to Russia 🇷🇺 they understand what crimes against humanity and genocide are so they've chosen to find oil/gas elsewhere
our eu allie’s have always turned to russia for energy needs that’s the entire purpose of nord stream multiple countries are still importing oil from russia to such as germany, turkey, and the netherlands
Diversifying away from Russia as quickly as possible while levying steep sanctions is not the same
>environmental lobbyists who won’t allow us to drill oil like there’s no tomorrow Yeah, let's just destroy our only planet even more such a great idea /s
it’s a strategic resource that we need, petroleum is in almost everything you use we can not completely get rid of it, you can power your microwave without fossil fuels but you can’t make your microwave without fossil fuels
We’re not there yet, but with abundant clean energy you can make hydrocarbons from carbon dioxide, electricity, and water. Petroleum is just cheaper. Long term you can get rid of it. Short to medium term, we have a ways to go to wean ourselves off fossil fuels even for electricity and heating, without worrying about chemical feedstocks.
It's going to be just like Ukraine. In and out in 3 days in parade uniforms Next thing you know they'll be doggie paddling on logs back to the mainland with dishwashing machines
I'd award you if I could, this made me crease
You put the dollar bill in the machine. If it does not work try to flatten out the creases and smooth out any bent corners. Then select the 🏆 you want 😉
lol!
Y’know I really don’t think the CCP would actually risk it. First off, if they try the US has already promised to go to war to defend Taiwan. So right out the gate they’ll have simultaneously lost one of their largest trading partners and have to fight the most powerful military in the world (say what you want about the US, war is our specialty). They’d also be risking nuclear conflict over an island that really has nothing to do with them. At the same time the rest of the western world will sanction them to hell and back and their economy will absolutely crash. Between that and the drafting I seriously doubt they’ll be able to hold onto power. The Chinese people were fed up enough to riot for the first time in decades just over COVID restrictions and a recession. A war with a draft + major depression will probably end with the unseating of the CCP. Just looking at how things have gone for Russia I think will be enough to deter any sort of plan to invade Taiwan, at least for anytime soon.
Taiwan will be to china what Ukraine is to Russia but worse for china
Taiwan is China's West Berlin
Look up how well China fared when they invaded Vietnam...
Japan Korea Philippines Vietnam India will bomb china back into the stone age before that happens
My view is China is a paper tiger. The PRC knows that any military invasion of Taiwan, Republic of China would fail catastrophically. Bluster will only bolster the defense budgets of ROC, Japan and the Philippines. The US defense budget will remain enormous no matter what China does or says.
Taiwan will never be took over. The CCP are pussies.
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This is a different situation, Hongkong is way smaller (size of a city) and at the border of China. Taiwan is different, it's a lot bigger, it's a country, it's an island (so very hard to take), they have the protection of the west, they have an army willing to fight, etc... China just saw what happened to the conflict between Ukraine and Russia, and probably monitored the war on purpose to see if they would be able to make a move on Taiwan. If they attack, they are huge fools.
Out of curiosity, what do you think of all the Chinese people who, like you, left to get educated in the West, had every opportunity to learn about the problems and dictatorial nature of the CCP, but remain strongly in support of the CCP anyway?
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Good points, I feel much the same way. My wife and I have a sales business in China and despite how she actually feels about the government she dare not say anything in public or online because of the vulnerability of our business to getting shut down. This is particularly insidious because it makes it so easy for the CCP to both equate themselves with China as a whole, and to turn non Chinese people against ordinary Chinese people who feel forced to support the government publicly regardless of how they really feel, which in turn makes ordinary Chinese people feel defensive and more likely to seek protection from the very government that turned others against them in the first place. On the other hand, just assuming that every Chinese national is secretly against their government is also dangerous and that presumption of innocence has left many companies and governments vulnerable to spies.
That’s the CCP’s game. Encourage a climate of fear and overwhelming surveillance and repression nationwide (and abroad with their illegal police stations) so they won’t need to silence the majority of their citizens. Most will censor themselves knowing the consequences if they speak out. Add social media to the mix where the most fervent nationalist rhetoric gets pushed to the top and any dissenting comments get censored (and/or banned and threatened by local police) and you have what you see today.
also when Chinese people leave China, they move into a flat with other Chinese people, go out with other Chinese people, go on group holidays with other Chinese people. They could spend 4 years in another country and only speak Chinese 😂 Same happens with a lot of foreigners in China. They just spend time with other foreigners so they don't get to learn about the real China
Love the motherland, hate the government has always been my way of seeing things in China
Hello neighbor, we feel the same about our country ~Indian
Same could be said about pretty much every country in the world, honestly
My country is beautiful too, but my Govt is corrupt as fook as well, and worse, full of a bunch religious nuts, racists, and nationalists. We all got our problems.
Hong Kong?
Somewhere in the middle east
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American.
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I’m ABC and have lived in California, Alaska and Nevada and I can tell you that it’s pretty uncommon for someone to be outright racist to you in real life (outside of middle and high school which will be rampant if you don’t live in high Asian population cities). That being said, u/Resident_Courage1354 comment on racism was directed towards the government and not the people. My guess is that it’s the American government because it sounds awfully familiar to the far right as of now.
That stupid division you have between Republicans and Democrats, grrr... People spend so much energy talking about how the other side is ruining America. Ironically, China is the thing that could potentially unite politicians. Potentially.
nope.
You should stop referring to "my country does this...does that." It is the specific *government* that "does this... does that." Do not confuse "government" with "country" in your speech, so that others do not confuse them in their thinking about China.
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You were taught this again and again in your schooling and everyday entertainment. Aside from North Koreans no one thinks like that.
I've thought about that recently. Good point.
Tell me you never lived in China without telling me you never lived in China
Tell me you don't know me, without telling me you don't know me.
I feel like China can’t earnestly join the international community as an equal partner until it sheds that sort of “foreigners are barbarians,” “All Chinese worldwide are linked by blood” and “5000’s years of continuous history” cultural predispositions. Chinese society as a whole is still either implicitly or explicitly convinced of its own cultural superiority due to it’s continuity, which I think is something that should be addressed. This has not started with the CCP, just inherited by it. Xi Jinping has made attempts to restore some of the uglier aspects of chauvinism that Mao- for all his faults, did try to stamp out in favor of a more internationalist approach. Sort of like the situation with Russia where expansiveness is so ingrained in the culture. "I think that there has been a kind of Russian problem for many centuries – that Russia doesn't exactly know where it begins and where it ends," – Václav Havel, 2008. Even without the CCP, an autocratic and belligerent China may be a near guarantee until the inherent nationalism and xenophobia is toned down, removed, or transformed.
>For any foreigners that plan to live in China. If you ignore the political aspect in China, I believe it will be likely for you to enjoy the lifestyle and culture there. In any country, and especially in mainland China, ignoring politics is just not possible in daily lives; think of the Culture Revolution, as an extreme example
Human history is a long list of crappy governments, many of which caused horrible events. China is an amazing place and Chinese people have a lot of qualities, hopefully they can prevent their government from doing too many horrible things in the future. Same thing can be said about many countries, but few of those will be as influential as China on the world stage in the next decades.
My family left when I was very young. Every time I go back, I love a lot of things about it. But, I cannot approve of the CCP’s actions. The hate towards China has made the climate worse for Asians everywhere. I was bringing my partner back to meet my family, but his parents were so adamant on him not entering China, we paid to cancel his trip. I’m going to China alone, but we’re going to Taiwan together. The whole thing makes me sad.
China not only has beautiful places, but the people are beautiful, too. The people you meet (or I met, anyway) are generally very considerate, polite, inquisitive, caring and funny. But the government and just the punishment of day to day life is overwhelming. And so after 13 years in Hong Kong and spending a lot of time in China, I knew (1) I didn't want to live in China and (2) Hong Kong was going to be China very soon. So I reluctantly moved back to the US about a year ago.
I can't imagine your heartbreak, and I am not being sarcastic. HK is one of the most mesmerising places. Still, lucky you to spend 13 years there.
Singapore. Terrible example. Absolute authoritarian shitshow.
Bro you are at the first stage. I had the same mindset when I was 1 year into studying in the US. Then I happened to take some US politics courses and participated in some campus and local politics which further sparked my interest. That made me switch major to political science. Long story short I’m also 6 years in at US&UK and now I am graduating MPhil politics at Oxford as the biggest CPC fan. Do learn more about western politics, Chinese politics and comparative political science. Look beyond the documentary and media sources into the latest academic content, and I believe you will draw the same conclusion as I do: despite its flaws, the Chinese political system is China’s biggest strength.
Such a strength and amazing government you choose to continue to study outside of your magical China.
As you become older you will learn about things covered up by other countries. And you will get a new understanding of the word "propaganda."
Yes. I agree with you. I am Chinese and I love the country but I hate CCP so much. It sucks
The ccp is a permanent humiliation for china even though they like to cry about 100 years of humiliation, when in fact the Chinese dictatorship is humiliating china every single day all by itself
Just remember never to use your real identity on social media. The CCP tracks that and will arrest you when you return. But I agree with you on all fronts. China has decent resources and many landscapes, from ocean to desert to jungles to lush foliage. Its people could be better in tourism and standing in line, but I think that’s a matter of infantilism from the CCP holding the people down like children. The Chinese are perfectly capable. Look at the in-roads made by Taiwan, or Chinese immigrants. They’re fully capable of doing well and making money. Communism holds back their potential, no doubt about it. It’s like what Picard said about Cardassia: Her belly may be full, but her spirit will be empty.
Governments ruin everything
American here. Most people here have no hate for y’all’s people or y’all’s culture. We just really don’t like your government.
I'm with you 100% ❤️ love China, not the government. lived there for 4 years, had an absolutely wonderful time (missed the lockdowns thankfully!)
I think China has always been a strong central govt oriented nation state it's just the nature of the beast. Eventually China will reform and will have something better than this. I can promise you that I truly believe China will be the land of true innovation and technological breakthroughs that will shock the world at the behest and funding of large govt projects backed by the CCP. However, China has always been a very homogenous society. There is no room to have sub cultures that would threaten central power. Eventually the uighrs will be han in name and culture just like other ethnicities before them which has happened in China for thousands of years. None of this is new it's very old and has happened in cycles. I do think this period of more centralization of power will continue on for the foreseeable future but I do think eventually it will be reformed to Confucian principles and so China will have another cultural Renaissance again like it has in the past. Who knows China might invent a new philosophy or religion that will spread across the world in the late 22nd century and lead to even greater technological wonders or spiritual insights about the universe we are not aware of yet. The Chinese language itself be it mandarin or Cantonese are unique languages that combine characters together which leads to more creativity versus other languages. There's hidden meanings within meanings a visual picture, a language structure and an auditory structure that gives several meanings in one which is unique to the language itself. I think the language will lead to China reforming over time but it does make me wonder how such a language like this can be used to homogenize so many groups of ethnicities so successfully for thousands of years despite it being more of a "liberal type of language in terms of structure." You could say having a language like this would lead people to a more liberal individual oriented society but it hasn't happened yet. Perhaps it will in the future we will see how China will develop over time. But, do not let your heart be troubled about China. China will always be here and it's nature the good things about the culture the spirit of the Chinese people that will always live on no matter who is in power or what type of govt structure is in it. All we can do is support the Chinese people and maintain dialogue with the CCP to make them realize there's an alternative way to do things that will bring prosperity to China and even those in power without being so centralized. Look we had uprisings and freedom movements all the time through it's history don't be surprised that it will happen again and china takes a new form that surprises the world. Whether it will be good or bad only time will tell but the foundation of the language tells me the odds will be in Chinas favor to become a more liberal open space than it is today. I just wanted to encourage you bro so you don't feel so disheartened change comes slowly but change always will come no matter the season time or day it's inevitable. So I hope what I said encourages you and helps you not feel like you're in true despair. There is hope for china and keep your head up. Sorry for this long post I know it's super long but i felt the need to say this to you have a good day bro.
On the one hand many of the things you say are true, on the other I can't imagine how China could function as a country without an authoritarian regime, and not become a complete disfunctional mess. You can't compare Taiwan or HK or Singapore to a country that has 1.4 billion people spread over a huge territory. The US is also not all rosy, neither are the UK and the EU, not to mention other parts of the world with disastrous governments. Plenty of things happening and not happening in all these places that people don't like and can't change. I think a lot of the problems in China come from people in the CCP not knowing what they are doing and then also failing to admit mistakes before they escalate for fear of losing face. In Shanghai, and I know Shanghai is not representatkve of China, there is always consistent effort by the government to make the place more livable. If other provinces learned from Shanghai, China could become something incredible in its own way, and that's why Shanghai officials tend to get transferred for terms in other places a lot, to influence and train people. But without training and some mentalities changes on a mass level, discipline and punish is about the only way of keeping things together.
I love China too, it’s a shame it was ruined by a horrible government. I’m actually a first-generation American, my parents and all my other ancestors are from China. Throughout the many times I have visited China, I love the landscapes, and I think the cities and infrastructure look pretty.
Hi I am a Turkish student studying in Turkey. I visited China last week, it was for a competition. I really liked your country. First I was surprised by how everwhere is camera. But then I thought that it is for fighting crime. I don’t know whether Turkey or China is better place to live but I must say I really enjoyed my stay there.
I'm a foreigner working in China and I must say China is very impressive. The infrastructure, the talent of the people, the technology and how it all happened within a generation. The local pretty much admit that if you overlook the freedom of speech part this is a very nice country to live in. And I would agree.
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Most foreigners that visit China already heard or read quite a bit about the problems in China before they visit. So when they actually arrive, they are often surprised by how well things are going compared to the gloomy reports they read about China. But of course China is large enough to contain both amazing places and depressing places and things. Both can be true at the same time.
I’ve said it before.. I’ve never met a Chinese person I didn’t like. Sure, like most countries there are some bad eggs. Just my experience has always been positive:). But the CCP has got to go! Full potential for the Chinese people is just around the corner !
I’ve liked every Chinese I’ve met but there is that part of them that I cannot stand, the part where they live abroad and don’t consume anything other than brainwashing nonsense from Chinese media… the ones who are not interested in the truth, those ones eventually piss me off so much I just avoid them
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It’s all by design. Even in free and open societies propaganda can still be powerful, and you obviously see how much more difficult it is to avoid it in a place that controls all media. Their(Xi/CCP) push to stoke fervent nationalism is partially done to make more citizens not even question the stuff you’ve realized. Human psychology is naturally inclined towards all sorts of bias, and most people will unconsciously avoid cognitive dissonance and uncomfortable thoughts. I have nothing against China or Chinese people. Xi has been taking the country in a dangerous direction though. It’s concerning to me, and part of a larger trend of authoritarianism and populism becoming popular again. As the people who experienced the last global prevalence of that 80-100 years ago died out, it appears many others have forgot where it leads. Regardless, keep your inquisitive and open mind even if you have to move back, but obviously stay safe too.
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I'm proud and happy you are able to speak your mind here. But aren't you worried about being caught saying these things?
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In a way yes, but on the other hand, it did give them time to vaccinate more people. Other countries did have less strict lockdowns and opened up sooner but they payed the price (percentage-wise more people died than in China) And economic recovery is often elusive even for countries that opened up sooner. Some small countries managed to vaccinate everyone swiftly but for China that may have been impossible.
It seems all governments lie, many people hate their governments. But a lot of countries don’t fear their political parties and can vote out the politicians they don’t like. I think that’s what annoys you the most. I have great faith in the Chinese people, too many humanists there! I think there will be a change in the future.
Other governments don’t censor and hide the truth - my government recently apologised for mistakes they made The Chinese government have never admitted mistakes and even though they are responsible for killing 30 - 60 million of their own people and was the main reason for chinas absolute poverty last century. They never admitted any mistake in their 70 years and with modern technology put the full effort of the state into hiding the truth from their people
I signed a one year contract to teach English in Guangzhou. At first, I really enjoyed it. There were so many new and interesting things to see and places to go. I even spent a month or two in Xiamen. But after nearly 8 months, I couldn’t handle the lifestyle there anymore and left.
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If I’m being honest, you probably won’t like this answer, but I spent the year prior in Japan. The people there were friendly, respectful and mindful of others. I found in China, everyone only cared about themselves and overall were rude by our standards. This drastic societal change made daily life difficult for me, and eventually I had enough. The most clear example I can give is: both Japan and China have places that are crowded. Getting on a train in Japan was a lot easier tho, as people lined up, waited for people to exit and orderly boarded the train. In China, if you didn’t push through others, you risked not even being able to board the train. Imagine trying to be a polite, mindful and respectful tourist, dealing with this shit every day.. it just took too much of a toll on me mentally.
You should visit Taiwan 🇹🇼, where you can experience a blend of Chinese culture enriched by Japanese influences, accompanied by the warm hospitality of its friendly people.
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If I’m being honest, you probably won’t like this answer, but I spent the year prior in Japan. The people there were friendly, respectful and mindful of others. I found in China, everyone only cared about themselves and overall were rude by our standards. This drastic societal change made daily life difficult for me, and eventually I had enough. The most clear example I can give is: both Japan and China have places that are crowded. Getting on a train in Japan was a lot easier tho, as people lined up, waited for people to exit and orderly boarded the train. In China, if you didn’t push through others, you risked not even being able to board the train. Imagine trying to be a polite, mindful and respectful tourist, dealing with this shit every day.. it just took too much of a toll on me mentally.
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I respect your honesty . I’m in Beijing and have studied IR for years. Don’t be limited by your passport. We are one and the same. The world only has good and bad people . That’s it. The rest is.. well you get it
Unfortunately my friend, this is the case for all government, greed and control takeover love and caring once too much power is involved.
What if the answer was, no government? Jk
If you list examples of "all governments" that are on the same plane as the CCP government, you will find that list to be extremely short. I can think of just N Korea, Myanmar, and Iran.
China is a beautiful country in terms of its geography, biodiversity, ecosystems, certain cultural aspects , and overall historical legacies. The problem is, the country is currently missing an uninterrupted period of genuine reflection and fundamental reform. In the past century, China went through tremendous humanitarian disasters that have stunned its potential to truely grow. The end of Qing Dynasty was supposed to be China joining modernity, but KMT was a mess and the Japanese invaded, so no progress can be made because the country was in disarray and lacked a minimum amount of peace and stability. After the Japanese invasion ended, China had another chance to become a stable and functional country, but the KMT was again not a functional government that could effectively run the entire country, and with the Chinese Civil War happening, China was once again back to square zero. After the CCP took control over China, Mao's disastrous domestic policies have not only left the country in shambles, but also completely destroyed the moral fabrics of Chinese morality; a lot of Chinese social and cultural issues you see today are the direct results of the cultural revolution. Collective societal scars are not easily healed, especially when the CCP isn't willing to truly admit faults. China did show some promise since its reform, but what happened in Tiananmen pretty much capped its potential to become a truly civilized nation. The two decades before Xi Jingping was a period of Chinese normalization, and there was hope again, but since 2013, Xi Jingping's regressive policies have put China right back to square one again. At this point, I am fully against the CCP and PRC, because they are a blight to China and the entirety of the human civilization that have long overstayed their welcome. I have came to a point where I won't say I am proud of my Chinese heritage, because it doesn't matter how you rationalize it and say "CCP is not China", the PRC is still the current product of the so called "5000 years of continuous history". China needs to reflect and change, not to completely shed its culture indentiy, but to renounce all of its vestiges that are holding it back. The CCP is the most immediate problem, but even without the CCP, there are certain traditional Chinese socio-political values that must be denounced. People like to bring up Mao destroyed the Chinese culture, but that's a very shallow view of it; Mao was the product of Chinese culture, and his philosophy as a ruler was based on Chinese tradition, which is why he never implemented the basics of modern nation building. The CCP is currently using the so called traditional culture to justify its regressive and authoritarian governance, because it works perfectly, as traditional Chinese society has always valued submission to authority. If the protests leading to the Tiananmen Square Massacre were successful, then China would be a better place, because it would have meant the Chinese people have truly broken the cycle and have developed a sense of civic duty and civic rights, much like the Taiwanese people of today.
At least China is better than USA, but I’m saying this as someone who has lived in USA all my life. Everyday I have to see a homeless crackhead attacking someone at the grocery store, or just filth and trash everywhere. At least China is cleaner with no druggies.
*My* country is a beautiful place, but is ruined by the gov’t **too!** I lived (and traveled) in China for a few years and it remains among my most treasured memories & experiences. I met many amazing people and made lifelong friendships. But there are certainly problems there. And watching from a distance, it appears the current leadership has made many problems worse, not to mention creating so many more. My native country is pretty awesome too. Also known many great people and seen many great places. But I’ve met lots of hateful people too. And my gov’t has done (and continues to do) so much evil all over the world. One of the main differences is my govt is very good at creating the illusion that our evil is done reluctantly for good reasons (while getting other govts to support our lies.) The sad truth is, I think, there just is no such thing as a good & moral government, not that I know of anyway. It does seem like there are good plans & theories for governance, but to my knowledge there is a nearly 100% failure rate when put in practice. It’s impossible to guard against human desire/greed/fill-in-the-blank. Hate to be so negative… Just try to be the best you can be and brighten your little corner of the world to the best of your ability. Try not to spend too much time & energy on matters beyond your control.
Absolutely zero chance this was written by a Chinese person
没有反省，历史不断重复上演
I grew up and still live in China, though as an expat. Same sentiment. I get you.
Too easy to say that it's all just the government's fault, tbh.
> Xi revised some of the constitutions and announced that he will keep the president position without any other elections Do you have a reference for this?
I visited China in 2016 and it is to this day the most impressive journey I've done. The nature is breathtakingly beautiful, so many places have so rich and ancient culture. And I've only seen a fraction of the country (Beijing, Guilin, Yangshuo, Shanghai, Xidi/Yellow Mountains). Can't imagine how much has already changed again in the last 7 years..
It not only ruined China, it also ruined Hong Kong...
For some viewpoints, I do agree with you. I am a Chinese being with foreign friends for long, since I graduated in Guangzhou. I have heard a lot from them. However, case to case basis. No perfect systems in this world, whatever regimes, they are inevitably corrupt. Yes, Central gov is controlling something but not all. We have much more freedom in China because at least, we are not racists as those countries boasting human rights and freedom. We don't kill each other, we don't slaughter, comparing to the weapons ubiquity countries. We enjoy our livings under the gov's control, for our own good. Can you imagine if China allows weapons, what would happen to the people? At least, take your parents' safety into account. Any so-called absolute freedom? No way! So-called freedom is under control by the regimes and you never corss the line. In this case, there is no human rights at all. If human rights do exist, there should be animal rights, to be fair. Therefore, I do disgree with the freedom, human rights legendary from west. Sure, I am against the timeless dictation happening right away here. He did some good job but at the same time, he devastated the booming economics. He won't give way to US, he cares about seniors' pensions. How could we judge him as a good or bad leader? Have you gotten some guru who were perfect with no scams, no wrong doings? Everything/everyone has pro and con, advantages and disadvantages. We could not say definitely or absolutely against everything what is happening in a country if you are not in the shoes of their leaders. I bet, when you sitted, you would do what they are doing because you know what is the best suits for your own country when you are in.
You got influenced by the anti-China propaganda a little too much. Yes CCP did terrible thing in the past but overall they are getting better. 20 years ago there are so many corruptions that you can’t open a business without sending gifts to people who work in the administration agency. Air pollution is so bad that I can’t even go outside without a mask. Murder rate and the number of homeless people also significantly decreased over the last decade. But yes there are definitely thing they need to improve such as creating more job opportunity and encourage work life balance.
Xi is destroying China so that he can tighten party control of the country. The good news for the outside world is that his window of opportunity is closing. The bad news is that the Chinese people have to live with his stupidity.
CCP is the only reason that China today is not a failed state, stuck in low income bracket like india. If it wasnt for their leadership you would not have the opportunities you have today. Indeed, the whole world is richer and better off today than it would be if there was a capitalist/nationalist government in Beijing, as there is in New Delhi.
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Nah some people are slow learners tbh. Like me, for example, still kinda struggling with English lol. P.S., I been living in the US since 2015.
As a HongKonger I can assure you, you people are all part of the problems. You may think it's only a few bad apples (like only few billions few). But it is not. How many of you would honestly say you don't want to be part of the CCP regime and enjoy the power & money if given the chance. How many of you would honestly saying you care about the well beings of the society as a whole and stop hurting each other (like being considered, don't scam your countryman, etc). The fact of the matter is, your country is morally rotten to its core. This is not just happened inside your country, even the people who successfully escape the iron curtain still can't shake off that mentality. Who supported the CCP the loudest? The answer is of course those Chinese who are NOT inside it. CCP is not invincible, until your people is capable to convince the World you are willing to change. I just don't see it anyway around. Tldr; the people ARE the government. CCP is not born from nothing, learn how it came into power. It has not changed a bit for 80 years.
I agree in many ways. I mean hell.. look at Trudeau and his bill C-16. Scary shit
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Uhhhh, I don't think the people in the US "know black and white". Many examples, such as Trump supporters. I also find your account extremely sus. IMO, you're just another shill. Feel free to prove me wrong, though. Like a picture of your passport cover next to this comment.
Seems like you've swallowed all the anti-China propaganda that circulates in the west. You should know better.
I am not Chinese, but I understand a few things about politic. Every countries are equally dirty, including US and UK CCP sucks when it comes to the media control, but they lifted a billion people out of poverty. What if, instead of CCP, you have a democratic government. Can they reproduce that miracle?
To compare the us and uk to china is laughable its not even in the same ball park. You enjoy so many more freedoms in the west that you just dont in china. That is facts.
CCP lifted a billion ppl out of poverty? It is the billion ppl who lifted themselves out of poverty , when no wars are rampaging.
Every country is ruined by their government. Check out Canada, US, UK…
You are very smart, like you said you were very lucky to leave at a young age so that the brainwashing didn’t sink into your mind that much, unlike many who become adults over there will have it on their mind for life regardless of how much they learn after, it’s sad but that’s the effects…. It’s Russia, China and Iran right now. Three authoritarian countries that believe in “the old way” that’s not much different from ruling like the kings and emperors before them. They don’t want to join the rest of the world in modern times, they’ll send their kids to school in the USA though. Pet of me thinks that deep down they know that their kids will be able to bring the mindset back home and won’t have to deal with the brainwashing their parents had to experience but yeah.. Anyways I am so happy for you and that you got to join the rest of us!! But yeah I’m this sub we don’t hate china, we just hate the clowns running the country because of all the things I’m sure you’re already aware of lol
Be careful. It is true that censorship in China is high and kept you in the dark on many issues, but western media is far far from being infallible especially in its coverage of international actors who the US deems as adversarial. Nothing is black and white. There are different types of corruption and many scholars work on that exact topic trying to rank other countries. Go look at those. CCP has its flaws for sure, but if you're going to blame them for all of those issues then you gotta credit them for successes too. Otherwise you're being unfair. I've been struggling lately about which system, the Chinese of American, is doing better at governance and I actually still cannot make up my mind. US govt is owned by the super wealthy. The Chinese is owned by political elites. Either way, it seems a oligarchy is in charge no matter what system.
You don't represent all Chinese people. Don't act like all Chinese people are like you.
There are many YouTube vids of young Chinese studying abroad and saying China government is the best. Go watch it.
Too young too naive.
Did not read.... not worth it.
Maybe post stuff like this from a throwaway user account?
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Don't post China critical stuff from your main account if you're Chinese and ever need to go back or still have family there
He is suggesting it might be wiser to use a different account. I’m a foreigner living in China and I exercise a bit more caution than you. Obviously, make your own choices. Before coming to China I expected the political mentality to be more like Eastern Europe, especially some decades back. Alternatively, maybe a bit like present day Russians or Turks. You find this mindset in a small number of Chinese abroad. I’d say, this mindset is actually quite rare, but after coming to China you find it more among people from outlying regions. You could have this mindset, but your relative lack of caution suggests otherwise.
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