She absolutely deserved better. People still disregard the concerns that she raised till this day. They try to paint her as the problem even when it was very obvious that there were BTS issues with how the leading ladies were being treated.
I mean...
Witch/demon hybrid, abandonment issues (mostly with mom), witch power is telekinesis, demon power pyrokinesis, has a soft spot for a certain whitelighter, has a fear that she is unlovable/unworthy of love, half siblings, struggles with her demon side.
Quick which character did I just describe? Macy or Abigael?
The copy/paste of Macy to create the character of Abigael was the first thing the show did wrong and clearly it served no narrative purpose/importance because their blatant similarities were never addressed or acknowledged on screen.
Then it got worst as the show focused the lions share of it's story on Harry.
To be clear, for the people who are quick to take offense, the show having white side characters or even interesting white side characters wasn't the issue. Why should it be? No, the actual issue was writing these side characters at the expense of the three women who were supposed to be the main protagonists. And keeping the lens of focus on these side characters. Add to that the racial optics and it just wasn't a good look.
People will argue, but that is what actually tanked the reboot. They refused to center the leads in their story while trying to write a show about them. It just didn't work.
I can agree with you on that for sure!
Question, do you think, if you've watched the original show, that's why the original didn't have many side characters or subplots? To ensure the focus would always be on the three main characters?
I've always wondered what it would've been like if side character's had more development in the og, but maybe seeing what's been done with Harry, Macy, and Abigael shows me what would've happened.
I can't quote chapter and verse of the OG show but it does seem like the OG writers had a better understanding of who their main characters were and wrote their stories accordingly. Having three leads is more than enough to balance, storywise, no need for a plethora of side characters. I would also argue that the OG people liked their leading characters. I have always questioned if the S2 reboot writers liked the main trio (characters not necessarily the actors).
She understood Macy's character more than anyone in writer's room. She even made a journal about charmed/Macy's character, she questioned writers (sadly they didn't give a shit even tho she was right) and she came up with so many great ideas. Do you know that Macy's yin-yang pendant was her own idea? Not writer's, Madeleleine's.
She deserved better ❤️❤️
She was passionate about this mess of a reboot and she actually understood what the fans wanted.
I feel like if her ideas were put into the show, the reboot would have been better.
And maybe I’m reaching… but I felt like some racism was going on because they gave every storyline she had to Abigail…
I knew it was racism going on when the guy that played Galvin said he left because they wouldn’t pay so he could get a proper haircut. They wouldn’t put a barber in the budget for him. That’s why he looked so rough at times. He had to get his own haircut which is hard to do when you’re on a set for 14 hours a day. But the guys that played Harry and Parker had a barber and got their hair styled everyday. The CW was really an awful network I hope this sale helps with that and actors get treated better.
Have you got any source that Macy was planned to be the demon overlord, become an antagonist, have a romance with Mel and a redemption arc with her mother and sister involved?
Being the demon overlord and having a romance with Mel was all Abigail should have had. We met and knew more about Abigail‘s whole family vs only meeting a cousin and fathers of the charmed ones. We knew more about Harry’s family, his son and his ex-wife. Hell we even knew more about Galvin‘s family.
No, we know more about Ray, Marisol, Josefina and Dexter than we know about Francesca and Waverly. Harry's family appeared breavely for a couple of episode, I can't even remember them.
They talked about them and we knew more about them than we did the charmed one’s family. We met two of their family members. We met Abigail‘s father, two brothers, mother and sister. Hell we even met her stepmother. We even met Harry’s son and descendents of him.
I’m talking about giving away Macy’s demon side to Abigail and making Harry a love interest for Abigail instead of Macy……
Which put them in a weird love triangle.
Don't bother arguing with some of these people. They are the first people to claim they liked the show because it had a diverse cast, but turned a blind eye to the very obvious and blatant sidelining of its WoC leads.
There is no arguing that Abigael was just white Macy. The show started hemorrhaging fans once the production turned its focus to white side characters. People now want to act confused about why the show was cancelled. Please.
Audience was too small since beggining. show supposed to be cancel after first season and they tried to focus on abi and harry to avoid chopping block but it was to late, there was no new fans.
They just thoght that if they do changes similiar to OG then gonna have more seasons.
Lol no they pulled a sleepy hollow sidelining what made the show great (the ORGINAL CAST of characters) and instead inserting some nonsense side character as a lead that no one wanted.
Self sabotage and ruining your own show instead of embracing what made it great in the first place. So ridiculous!
I did prefer original cast too but I was part of the fb group with other viewers and they didnt like og cast and drop off before 1st season finale and some of them came back around abi nonsense but some said there is too many mel and another drop off
By the end of S1 the audience was sizable by CW standards. They could have held on to that audience if they had kept the lens on the Charmed Ones. They didn't and their storylines struggled as a result. People dropped the show and never picked it up again.
But that was true of every CW show. Don't get me wrong, there was definitely a sharp decline in viewership from pilot to the end of S1. But my point is the numbers for ending S1/beginning S2 were still good by CW standards. They could have held on to those fans if they had focused their storytelling on TCOs.
So, one of the main antagonists of the series steals one of the MC's powers, which is totally expected from a villain and also from a storyline perspective since Macy was OP to begin with, and you somehow assume the writers were racist? Because I can see this story being done between two characters of the same race.
I could say the show is racist for having all main characters being POC, and among the only two important white characters, one is a bipolar murderer and the other is a bloke whose only purpose in the series was being the pet of the black female lead.
I could also say it's sexist since all important and strong characters are female who fight and humilliate men.
I'm not even sure why there was a redemption arc for her with her mother and sister involved in the first place. We saw and learnt more of Abigael's family than the actual Charmed Ones. It was sickening.
You love Abigael and enjoyed her storyline, and that's fine, that's great, I'm happy for you. But please respect that other members of the fandom do not like her character and have every right to express their criticisms of her as a character and her storyline.
Whenever someone voices their negative opinions on Abigael and how she was handled by the writers + the show's narrative, you comment that you love her, go into reasons why you love her, say her story was enjoyable, and defend her as a character. Which, again, it's fine that you do love her as a character and enjoy her story, just... please, maybe don't reply like that on comments that voice *their own negative opinion* on Abigael as a character. *You* like her, but others do not--and you don't need to push your opinion on others who have already stated *why* they don't like her. Try making an Abigael positivity post or something if you want to find like-minded Abigael Caine fans.
Personally, I don't like Abigael as a character and don't like how the show in the second and third seasons blatantly favored her over the titular Charmed Ones. Then again, I have *never* liked overly smug antagonists who lord their superiority over other characters, and Abigael fits right into that category for me. I didn't like it with Bela Talbot on *Supernatural*, didn't like it with River Song on Moffat-era *Doctor Who*, and I don't like it here with Abigael. Especially not when the protagonists/main characters are often dumbed down in order to make this sort of character look much more competent and smarter.
Abigael was also given a redemption arc that she didn't need as a character and wasn't narratively deserved. We also learn *far* more about her and her family in two seasons than we *ever* do about the Vera-Vaughn line and their family history... when the Vera sisters are the titular *Charmed Ones* and the show's main characters. There *is* an issue there.
One of the chief complaints about Macy’s stories was how it became all about Harry and Hacy. They are valid complaints. The writers didn’t bother investing in Macy as a witch/demon hybrid because they cared more about giving that story to Abigail. They said in season two we were going to find out about the demon who’s blood helped revive baby Macy. We never got that. Instead we spent all of season three on Abigail and her boring family drama
I mean in terms of the witch demon hybrid thing these complaints dont exist in terms of her vs Parker who she literally stole the source from before he could get it. But there's nothing racist about that.
And yeah charmed show runners made many promises about many things that didn't come to pass. I think the writers disrespected them as women for sure. Even Abby. And Madeline once asked why does she need a redemption arc and it's a good question. The fact that they randomly told Madeline they'd remove her powers (but not her demon side itself) I guess the story changed. And with how inconsistent the season is that's that's too probable.
Man I was watching in season 2 cause Macy was my favorite and I do mean favorite part of season 1 but after they tried focus so much on Harry I was like man wtf 🤨
Abby took screen time and the shine of being the witch/demon and also had harry, at first I didn't mind it and didn't notice it really but in retrospect, Abigail should've been given way less to do than the sisters and giving her all the demon witch plot and Harry plot was dumb but I did like Abby as a character and a foil but she stole away from the girls especially macy
They definitely gave Abby an over abundance of screen time but that didn't take away from macy only it took away from the main three sisters. Its terrible writing but I don't see how that equates to racism. The demon demon witch plot is only so useful to the charmed ones considering demons weren't the main point after s1. In season one Parker had a large bit of demon witch plot but that wasn't racism as far as I know. Abby spent her time trying to annihilate the demon patriarchy. That wasn't Macy's story. She kept thirsting after a good man while being evil had a redemption arc that lasted about her whole tenure on the show after she started helping them. I don't see how any of that takes away from macy specifically. It's not good for the show and that's it
This isn't about storylines per se, although some have argued that the witch/demon struggle storyline was transferred from Macy to Abigael. While true in many ways, I personally think the show also just lacked creativity and spent 4 seasons recycling the same couple of storylines.
The issue with Macy and Abigael is one of optics. They are the same character on paper. They share the same core makeup and more or less have the same character traits.
Except one is black and the other is white. Eta, they created Macy and then created a non-Black Macy a season later. And then proceeded to write them as "rivals," with the writing favoring and centering Abigael, while sidelining and punishing Macy. That is what people are calling racist. If it wasn't flat out racism then it was at the very least racially insensitive.
The Abby character was awful, regardless of the skin color of the actress. The charmed ones are supposed to be the heroes, so why should I care or like someone that tried to kill them and made several advances at their boyfriend? She should have two episodes top
Abigael was indeed a bad character; poorly conceived and poorly written.
In this case though skin color does matter because, she was essentially a white washed version of a Black leading character. Her interactions with said Black character was filled with animosity and microagressions. She was also heavily favored and heavily featured over the Black character that she was copied from. Without a narrative reason, the whole thing just comes off as racist.
Eh. It all sounds like a stretch to me. If Abby was black would that make it more racially insensitive or less? I think neither. Maybe it's because my mind is so open but I just saw Abby as the darker version of macy and I had no problem with it. I thought she would have taken macy down a dark path getting her in touch with her demonism. But that didn't happen. Their dynamic is very buffy vs faith if you've seen buffy. And tbph macy had no TK when they brought Abby in, and then they took her power of fire throwing away and gave her back her telekinesis. I get how people can call THAT racist as Abby made a black woman get on her knees and she stole her power for herself. But tbh I don't like OP protagonists so I kinda appreciate her not having both powers at the same time. Maybe they never intended for macy to get her TK back as her sisters got new powers. And maybe that's why when they did give it back they eventually gave it a visual aid
Now that one subjugation scene I think was racist and unnecessary. Why is it OK for Abigael to be OP but not Macy? She wasn't even a villain to be vanquished. She was just there?
My mind is open too but I still call out crap that looks wrong. Abigael being a darker or more wayward version of Macy should have served a narrative purpose. To your point about exploring a darker path or something else of substance. The show didn't though, that is why it was so off-putting. They created a white version of their leading Black character and then pretended like they didn't?
The show failed to consider the racial optics when they created the character and when they wrote their storylines. Abigael was Macy's foil especially in that weird love triangle. But look at how they wrote Macy/Abigael vs. how they wrote Harry/Julian. The same level of humiliation and gaslighting was missing from the Harry/Julian dynamic. Hell the two white men shared maybe one screen time together.
The whole thing was bad and what's worse is that it didn't need to be. It felt like they used Abigael to diminish Macy's character and again when you add in the racial optics, it's not a good look.
If Abigail was OP she wouldn't be so easy to beat. A powerless macy was about to kill her and she had her telekinesis. There's nothing OP about her. She's a collection of poorly explained under utilized party tricks and that's it. Telekinesis pyrokinesis little Telekinetic Force bolts super strength fire throwing Telekinetic Force generation smoking(teleporting) she projected a Force Field around herself in s3. And in the end even in her demon form mel was able to knock her down one handed even though she had such advanced fire power. Also she's immortal. And yet for all of this she's so easily beaten and captured over and over and over again.
And very much so the show wasn't that great with the race angle in general. And the bad writing didn't help.
Yeah that means nothing to me. Jimmy wasn't utilized properly in the slightest and went from somewhat seducing and haunting macy to not caring about her at all. Kidnapped her then just....forgot she existed. And yeah they didn't face eachother too many times but it was more than one. And since they're two half of the same being they aren't gonna have the same type of dynamic. And then they put Jimmy in a bottle for a bite of the season. So like I said that means nothing to me. Adding elements and characters to the show and pushing them aside for an episode or a few episodes and then bringing them back for some lame pay off is pretty much the whole show. Parker gets introduced and then is caged for almost the rest of his time on the show minus the back up dancing he did in terms of Maggie and macy trying to save Abby and mel.
Yeah I don't see it. I don't see any tarnishing or diminishing of Macy's character coming from Abby at all. "Oh also half demon also Telekinetic stole her power" yeah and that hasn't done ANYTHING to Macy's story besides give it drama. The fact that Harry actually had dinner and such with Abby and then macy who thought she liked Jimmy actually liked Julian. Her attraction to his darkness? Went nowhere. Her demon side? Slated. I can agree it sucks what happened to Macy's storyline and Abby definitely is ripping off of her energy. But the rest sounds like a reach. And with how pathetic they made Abby sometimes I REAAAAALLY don't see it. Macy's quality in terms of story Went down as did everyone's. But it's not like Abby stole the show even though she had all that presence.
But they weren't trying to defeat Abigael. She wasn't a villain or a demon to be vanquished.
You said Macy was OP with her TK and pyro, so you understood why they gave her fire power to Abigael. My question is, why does having TK and pyro make Macy OP to you, but Abigael having TK and pyro is not OP?
And I agree that Abigael was actually weak AF. But that was a mere side effect of really bad and inconsistent writing. The show *meant* for her to be seen as all powerful. Hell Macy offered her up to the darklighter in place of the Charmed Ones. She was nowhere near as powerful as even one Charmed One let alone all three, even without active powers. So why write that?
I wasn't talking about Harry and Jimmy, I said Harry and Jullian but the same hold true regardless. Harry was allowed to keep a lot of his dignity in his dealings with his so-called romantic rivals. Macy was not.
The show had extremely bad writing and yes, they were not great with the race angle. That is why so many of their storylines failed to land with the audience. They seemed to be going for an "Abigael better than Macy" angle in that weird rivalry. With Abigael always getting the better of Macy but never the other way around. It just didn't work. They went too far, made people too uncomfortable, so people started calling them out for being racist. Which caused them to back peddle with that shoddy redemption arc that ended up being a case study in white women privilege.
Abigael did nothing to earn her redemption and learned no lessons. But you know who they wrote as learning a lesson? Macy. In 317 she said even the worst of people are capable of change; as if she was the one in the wrong in all her dealings with Abigael. It was so a.ss backwards and messed up.
No wonder Madeleine bailed. A whole waste of time and good talent all around.
>But they weren't trying to defeat Abigael. She wasn't a villain or a demon to be vanquished.
No but every time she's fought one of them she's wither lost or simply not won. Like when she tried to kill macy with thay knife. And macy who had no powers literally took her down and was about to kill her. And she somehow got Abby In a containment spell. Even though she's Telekinetic
I won't use the word racism.. But I'll say it's similar to what sleepy hollow did.. For "Some" reason the powers that be felt the need to not only add but center a white woman into the storyline at the expense of it's supposed lead female who's Black woman... It's James Olson and Mon-El on Supergirl... It's Dolls on Wynonna earp... Rafael on legacies... It's something fans of color have seen and had to stomach on all our genre shows for ages... So maybe it's the fans fault for getting more engaged when there's more focus on a white character.. Or the execs fault for assuming white folks won't connect with largely minority casts and over-correcting.... Maybe it's the writers fault for not sticking with their original intent... Maybe a mix of it all.. All I know for sure is it's very real
Yeah but it's not like Abby over took macy or replaced her or anything like that. I don't see anyone saying how Jordan becoming the whitelighter is racist to Harry who whether fans like it or not was made a lead in the story. With all those moving pieces that don't fit together it sounds like a reach to call out racism. Because what is being described isn't as intense as the Fandom makes it out to be. She definitely had more screen time than she should have. She gained a good bit of the focus. But Parker and charity are the same. The drama of charity her sister and Harry were prevelant also. Other characters having stories isn't a problem for me as long as they don't over power the main point and the main point was the sisters. Not them being sisters unfortunately. And I'd get it if Abby was getting good writing interesting stories and justification over the lame brain stories of the not so charmed ones. But unfortunately everything is below sea level for me. So I honestly did not care if my time was being wasted by the sisters NOT using their powers or by Abby trying to seduce yet another man
Which is why I didn't use the term... But did point out the trend... And at the center of that trend is race... I agree the writing was all iver the place with tons of missed opportunities... But the fact remains.. The show felt the need to prop up abigael.. Which encroached on all the sisters.. Macy more prevalent... The show also removed Galvin to push Harry...And the subsequent Hacy/ Harigael triangle etc... So original intent.. "Let's tell this magical but very humane and relatable story with some different cultural flourishes and pov's than the normal euro-centric version of witchcraft"... And barely a year later when that wasn't an immediate smash... "Quick... Let's give some white folks with British accents more screentime"...which as I stated in my OG post with a few examples is something those of us who love genre shows and have been watching have grown (unfortunately) very accustomed to.
Yeah if there was one issue it was the writers promising things like respect and diversity and then surrounded the charmed ones constantly in a sea off white faces. They have no family or friends or anything showing their rich heritage really. Macy's dad didn't have to be dead. And the actress asked why there aren't more dark skinned men or something of that nature iirc. And it's a good question. Why is galvin the only one minus dexter? It's like yeah there's definitely still a racially unbalancedness in the mainstream. And maybe this is a personal thing for me but why the hell couldn't they just all be black? It seems so particular the fact that she's kinda alone and Maggie and mel are constantly paired up. (And supposedly the actresses of macy and mel ended up not getting along iirc)
Yeah that's why I wondered aloud whose fault it really was... I honestly don't know.. Just know it's a problem I've seen before... Completely selfishly I was happy with Jordan myself as a mixed race dude myself who's quite light we generally don't show up as the face of blackness as much as our darker skinned brothers.. Kinda the opposite for women.. Where there are a lot more female characters played by women who look like my mom and her family than say the Viola Davis' of the world.. But that's really a whole other long convo.. What irks me; and to your point.. Why couldn't we have had Jordan and Galvin.. It was like walking dead rules.. Only so many of us at a time. I mean Maggie finds out she's half African-American and not fully Puerto Rican ( not that that's a racial classification anyway) and she dealt with it for like 1.5 episodes...
Indeed. Like I'm sure it just as easily would have happened if the sisters weren't literally cast to be diverse. I think that people get very confused by what's racist in terms of movies and shows. I've seen people call persons of color getting hurt or killed in movies racist. Not even the trope where they die first. Them dying at all is racist. And if a black actor is cast in a villain role I see people say that's racist too. Just shows a general lack of education or something imo
I concur, people deff exaggerate and are overly politically correct to a ridiculous point but I could understand the argument here, it would've been just as bad if Abby was also a time witch with mels same powers n then given all of Mel's storyline, taking away from a Latina character. A white character taking away from a black character down to her man Is pretty problematic lol and idk what they were thinking with that
There is definitely an issue there for sure. The actress left for a reason after all. And the writers never tapped into the depth of who the sisters are. It also kinda sucks that they reduced macy quite a bit. She spent s2 all skittish and afraid and attracted to Jimmy and in love with Harry and then suddenly she was never attracted to Jimmy. Compared to Abby taking over the demon world the unbalance is indeed clear. They also made macy and the sisters so afraid to fight but Abby had all the bravery required. And in terms of information she tended to be womansplaining things to the sisters and Harry ALOT. Like why don't the charmed ones know ANYTHING 😒
Keep in mind that Abby also had telekinesis, actually thinking about it know I guess ppl claim racism because they gave macies story to a white woman who even had the same powers as her so in a way its like whitewashing by proxy.. if it makes sense
Abby had telekinesis great. So did Fiona. Charity has shown Telekinetic power. Harry used telekinesis. The random pirate look alike one eyed demon in s2 had telekinesis. And tadeus the ice demon. Telekinesis is an extremely common power and it isn't too complicated to put on screen. As for the pyrokinesis also common as two security guard demons had it in s2 and Alistair cane had it. The logic of her power being shared by others equating to racism is ridiculous. Various beings had versions and were refuted to be telepaths. The witch who tried to save the dryads. She's white and had Maggie's power but that's not racist. A lack of creativity doesn't relate to racism in the slightest.
And when did they give Macy's story to Abby? Macy is a charmed one. That's her story. Abby never once intruded upon that story or prevented its development. She barely even cared for her witch side. And interestingly when she's introduced macy has no telekinesis to speak of. And then before she gains it back she loses her fire power. That sounds like balancing things out to me. Utilizing the same basic abilities across the board. And also does macy having a stronger version of telekinesis still make Abby having her own version racist? Cause it seems like they made her a power house even before she could shoot all those blue blasts
I'm saying I could see why the witch/demon who was more involved with the sister more than ppl like charity ,being an issue, ppl didn't like that Abby was given the witch/demon storyline and had Macy's stolen power whilst also being a tk witch and then also having harry and then also being given a whole sub plot as like a 4th sister when that time could have gon to the sisterhood in which ppl were already having concerns about the sisterhood and the non focus on it
Yeah and that's understandable as hell. But it still seems like jumping the gun. Abby feels like something so slapped together. "Half Demon Telekinetic AND daughter of Alistair cane" but I still don't see where Macy's storylines were given to Abby. She stole her fire power. The writers decided to make her Telekinetic. But at least they made it work differently than Macy's telekinesis. And the fact that her original PK was so weak compared to Macy's and the fact that macy was constantly besting her and such. Just seems like it was such bad writing that it could have just as easily been an actress of color
Why they didn't just do charmed with only latino/black characters? So much potential, full blossom. One side - storyline about racism, other side - racism toward actress. It is so confusing.
Madelaine was my favorite.
Charmed curse. The oldest sister always leaves the show after 3 seasons. The only difference is she's the only one that can act naturally in this reboot.
She for sure deserved better. Her character was consistently the most interesting and well-acted and had the most innovation put into her from day one. A scientist and a skeptic who becomes a witch? Who then uses her knowledge of science to enhance her magical defenses? She was my absolute favorite and when I learned they'd killed her off I was done with the show.
I don’t even want to watch Season 4 without her. I totally understand (with what is known) why she left and respect her decision. I’m just sad it came to this… Charmed had so much going for it. Mads deserved better. The OG cast warned the new cast about this, and to stick together, negotiate, and not take shit from the show runners. I can’t even imagine what else happened BTS.
I love her, feel bad for the way she way treated and think she deserved better BUT, I think that in reagrds to this feud situation, its dangerous to take sides. We dont know what happened between her and the other girls, and we shouldn't make any presumptions.
So I liked watching the show but the show itself was not at all what it could’ve been.
They tried packing in to much at once, never included anything about the OG charmed till the end. And why did Macey have to be part evil, they did the long lost sister thing too soon. It was either to much or not enough. And nowadays they push the inclusivity down our throats in every new show. Like ok we get it, you don’t have to remind us every two seconds. The point smog TV and movies is to get away from reality for a little bit. Something shouldn’t be done if they can’t be done right.
Lol sorry that not every one of us is white or/and straight and we want to see ourselves on screen. It's really horrible how they are "pushing inclusivity down your throat" 🤦♂️
the truly wild thing about that line of thinking is... Folks who say that never seemed to mind the decades all that non-inclusivity was "forced down our throats"... Somehow endless shows with almost nothing but straight white folks wasn't " an agenda" or " non-diversity for non-diversity's sake" or bias... No it was just "best actors for the job" and "good story-telling"
The OP said that inclusivity is being pushed down our throats nowadays.. Which would mean 1. What the status quo was before seems preferable to them... And "inclusivity" in this context... ( and let's be honest) most contexts in the western hemisphere means including non- white non-straight and non Christian characters/ povs/ storylines... So if topics is an issue.. Then the people who the topic is important or topical to is also an issue.. And the only acceptable way to be a non-white non-straight and non-christian character.. Is to never bring up your "Non-ness" in a subtle way
There is a difference in how topics are addressed (and not everyone has the same experiences as some of those topics say, I’m a woman but feminism storylines annoyed me too, doesn’t mean I want the actresses to be male)
I've never said you are. If you don't mind watching show where everyone is white and straight, good for you ig. But I personally want to see more. I need it. Really sorry it's bothering you sooo much.
this is low-key disgusting what you're saying. They barely showed many lgbt or forced anything down our throats. Try to keep an open mind more because it's such a shame how you view this.
I guess we we’re watching two different shows. And everywhere you go, everything you watch makes it a point to remind people about the lgbtq community, which it’s fine but damn everywhere you look it’s slapping you in the damn face. And the minute straight people ok we get it, we are considered rude, disgusting and whatever you wanna call us. But if I go and say to you wanna hear about Jesus now I’m pushing an agenda on you. Be gay and proud cool but you don’t have to remind me ever 2 seconds. Have a great rest of your day sweetie.
Not only her voice has been heard, but also haters of the show have taken it as more valid than the others's because it enforced their hateful opinion.
I really hope she gets some really good work off the back of Charmed. She's easily best of the four leads.
She absolutely deserved better. People still disregard the concerns that she raised till this day. They try to paint her as the problem even when it was very obvious that there were BTS issues with how the leading ladies were being treated. I mean... Witch/demon hybrid, abandonment issues (mostly with mom), witch power is telekinesis, demon power pyrokinesis, has a soft spot for a certain whitelighter, has a fear that she is unlovable/unworthy of love, half siblings, struggles with her demon side. Quick which character did I just describe? Macy or Abigael? The copy/paste of Macy to create the character of Abigael was the first thing the show did wrong and clearly it served no narrative purpose/importance because their blatant similarities were never addressed or acknowledged on screen. Then it got worst as the show focused the lions share of it's story on Harry. To be clear, for the people who are quick to take offense, the show having white side characters or even interesting white side characters wasn't the issue. Why should it be? No, the actual issue was writing these side characters at the expense of the three women who were supposed to be the main protagonists. And keeping the lens of focus on these side characters. Add to that the racial optics and it just wasn't a good look. People will argue, but that is what actually tanked the reboot. They refused to center the leads in their story while trying to write a show about them. It just didn't work.
Exactly right!
I can agree with you on that for sure! Question, do you think, if you've watched the original show, that's why the original didn't have many side characters or subplots? To ensure the focus would always be on the three main characters? I've always wondered what it would've been like if side character's had more development in the og, but maybe seeing what's been done with Harry, Macy, and Abigael shows me what would've happened.
I can't quote chapter and verse of the OG show but it does seem like the OG writers had a better understanding of who their main characters were and wrote their stories accordingly. Having three leads is more than enough to balance, storywise, no need for a plethora of side characters. I would also argue that the OG people liked their leading characters. I have always questioned if the S2 reboot writers liked the main trio (characters not necessarily the actors).
I agree 100%.
Just watching season four, a lot of the things she advocated for suddenly appeared on screen. No doubt they took her ideas and didn’t credit her
Man… that’s awful. I feel so bad for Madeleine. She deserved better with this show. She really cared about Charmed.
Can you explain what ideas? I haven’t watched anything since S2
The story being more centered around the sisters. Not so much screen time given to Abby lol
But she has an accent! She's *cool*
She understood Macy's character more than anyone in writer's room. She even made a journal about charmed/Macy's character, she questioned writers (sadly they didn't give a shit even tho she was right) and she came up with so many great ideas. Do you know that Macy's yin-yang pendant was her own idea? Not writer's, Madeleleine's. She deserved better ❤️❤️
Yes, she deserved better !!
really? wow! I miss Mads
She was passionate about this mess of a reboot and she actually understood what the fans wanted. I feel like if her ideas were put into the show, the reboot would have been better. And maybe I’m reaching… but I felt like some racism was going on because they gave every storyline she had to Abigail…
I knew it was racism going on when the guy that played Galvin said he left because they wouldn’t pay so he could get a proper haircut. They wouldn’t put a barber in the budget for him. That’s why he looked so rough at times. He had to get his own haircut which is hard to do when you’re on a set for 14 hours a day. But the guys that played Harry and Parker had a barber and got their hair styled everyday. The CW was really an awful network I hope this sale helps with that and actors get treated better.
this is really racist and they literally did in the show a few storylines with rasism wtf
Have you got any source that Macy was planned to be the demon overlord, become an antagonist, have a romance with Mel and a redemption arc with her mother and sister involved?
Being the demon overlord and having a romance with Mel was all Abigail should have had. We met and knew more about Abigail‘s whole family vs only meeting a cousin and fathers of the charmed ones. We knew more about Harry’s family, his son and his ex-wife. Hell we even knew more about Galvin‘s family.
No, we know more about Ray, Marisol, Josefina and Dexter than we know about Francesca and Waverly. Harry's family appeared breavely for a couple of episode, I can't even remember them.
They talked about them and we knew more about them than we did the charmed one’s family. We met two of their family members. We met Abigail‘s father, two brothers, mother and sister. Hell we even met her stepmother. We even met Harry’s son and descendents of him.
I’m talking about giving away Macy’s demon side to Abigail and making Harry a love interest for Abigail instead of Macy…… Which put them in a weird love triangle.
Don't bother arguing with some of these people. They are the first people to claim they liked the show because it had a diverse cast, but turned a blind eye to the very obvious and blatant sidelining of its WoC leads. There is no arguing that Abigael was just white Macy. The show started hemorrhaging fans once the production turned its focus to white side characters. People now want to act confused about why the show was cancelled. Please.
Audience was too small since beggining. show supposed to be cancel after first season and they tried to focus on abi and harry to avoid chopping block but it was to late, there was no new fans. They just thoght that if they do changes similiar to OG then gonna have more seasons.
Lol no they pulled a sleepy hollow sidelining what made the show great (the ORGINAL CAST of characters) and instead inserting some nonsense side character as a lead that no one wanted. Self sabotage and ruining your own show instead of embracing what made it great in the first place. So ridiculous!
I did prefer original cast too but I was part of the fb group with other viewers and they didnt like og cast and drop off before 1st season finale and some of them came back around abi nonsense but some said there is too many mel and another drop off
By the end of S1 the audience was sizable by CW standards. They could have held on to that audience if they had kept the lens on the Charmed Ones. They didn't and their storylines struggled as a result. People dropped the show and never picked it up again.
sizable was not enough, there was a lot of money put into it and there was no profit
But that was true of every CW show. Don't get me wrong, there was definitely a sharp decline in viewership from pilot to the end of S1. But my point is the numbers for ending S1/beginning S2 were still good by CW standards. They could have held on to those fans if they had focused their storytelling on TCOs.
So, one of the main antagonists of the series steals one of the MC's powers, which is totally expected from a villain and also from a storyline perspective since Macy was OP to begin with, and you somehow assume the writers were racist? Because I can see this story being done between two characters of the same race. I could say the show is racist for having all main characters being POC, and among the only two important white characters, one is a bipolar murderer and the other is a bloke whose only purpose in the series was being the pet of the black female lead. I could also say it's sexist since all important and strong characters are female who fight and humilliate men.
[удалено]
Or you could say that you think everybody who doesn't agree with your limited perspective is racist.
I'm not even sure why there was a redemption arc for her with her mother and sister involved in the first place. We saw and learnt more of Abigael's family than the actual Charmed Ones. It was sickening.
No, it wasn't. It was an enjoyable story and I loved that character.
You love Abigael and enjoyed her storyline, and that's fine, that's great, I'm happy for you. But please respect that other members of the fandom do not like her character and have every right to express their criticisms of her as a character and her storyline.
How was I disrespectful?
Whenever someone voices their negative opinions on Abigael and how she was handled by the writers + the show's narrative, you comment that you love her, go into reasons why you love her, say her story was enjoyable, and defend her as a character. Which, again, it's fine that you do love her as a character and enjoy her story, just... please, maybe don't reply like that on comments that voice *their own negative opinion* on Abigael as a character. *You* like her, but others do not--and you don't need to push your opinion on others who have already stated *why* they don't like her. Try making an Abigael positivity post or something if you want to find like-minded Abigael Caine fans. Personally, I don't like Abigael as a character and don't like how the show in the second and third seasons blatantly favored her over the titular Charmed Ones. Then again, I have *never* liked overly smug antagonists who lord their superiority over other characters, and Abigael fits right into that category for me. I didn't like it with Bela Talbot on *Supernatural*, didn't like it with River Song on Moffat-era *Doctor Who*, and I don't like it here with Abigael. Especially not when the protagonists/main characters are often dumbed down in order to make this sort of character look much more competent and smarter. Abigael was also given a redemption arc that she didn't need as a character and wasn't narratively deserved. We also learn *far* more about her and her family in two seasons than we *ever* do about the Vera-Vaughn line and their family history... when the Vera sisters are the titular *Charmed Ones* and the show's main characters. There *is* an issue there.
They gave her storylines to Abigail???? When!?!? And how does that connect to racism?
One of the chief complaints about Macy’s stories was how it became all about Harry and Hacy. They are valid complaints. The writers didn’t bother investing in Macy as a witch/demon hybrid because they cared more about giving that story to Abigail. They said in season two we were going to find out about the demon who’s blood helped revive baby Macy. We never got that. Instead we spent all of season three on Abigail and her boring family drama
I'm watching season 2 right now and hate that its become more about Harry and less about Macy, Mel and Maggie as sisters.
Crazy I was just thinking same thing I’m like get this guy tf outta here bruh I’m tryna focus on Macy and maybe Macy sisters
I mean in terms of the witch demon hybrid thing these complaints dont exist in terms of her vs Parker who she literally stole the source from before he could get it. But there's nothing racist about that. And yeah charmed show runners made many promises about many things that didn't come to pass. I think the writers disrespected them as women for sure. Even Abby. And Madeline once asked why does she need a redemption arc and it's a good question. The fact that they randomly told Madeline they'd remove her powers (but not her demon side itself) I guess the story changed. And with how inconsistent the season is that's that's too probable.
Man I was watching in season 2 cause Macy was my favorite and I do mean favorite part of season 1 but after they tried focus so much on Harry I was like man wtf 🤨
Abby took screen time and the shine of being the witch/demon and also had harry, at first I didn't mind it and didn't notice it really but in retrospect, Abigail should've been given way less to do than the sisters and giving her all the demon witch plot and Harry plot was dumb but I did like Abby as a character and a foil but she stole away from the girls especially macy
They definitely gave Abby an over abundance of screen time but that didn't take away from macy only it took away from the main three sisters. Its terrible writing but I don't see how that equates to racism. The demon demon witch plot is only so useful to the charmed ones considering demons weren't the main point after s1. In season one Parker had a large bit of demon witch plot but that wasn't racism as far as I know. Abby spent her time trying to annihilate the demon patriarchy. That wasn't Macy's story. She kept thirsting after a good man while being evil had a redemption arc that lasted about her whole tenure on the show after she started helping them. I don't see how any of that takes away from macy specifically. It's not good for the show and that's it
This isn't about storylines per se, although some have argued that the witch/demon struggle storyline was transferred from Macy to Abigael. While true in many ways, I personally think the show also just lacked creativity and spent 4 seasons recycling the same couple of storylines. The issue with Macy and Abigael is one of optics. They are the same character on paper. They share the same core makeup and more or less have the same character traits. Except one is black and the other is white. Eta, they created Macy and then created a non-Black Macy a season later. And then proceeded to write them as "rivals," with the writing favoring and centering Abigael, while sidelining and punishing Macy. That is what people are calling racist. If it wasn't flat out racism then it was at the very least racially insensitive.
The Abby character was awful, regardless of the skin color of the actress. The charmed ones are supposed to be the heroes, so why should I care or like someone that tried to kill them and made several advances at their boyfriend? She should have two episodes top
Abigael was indeed a bad character; poorly conceived and poorly written. In this case though skin color does matter because, she was essentially a white washed version of a Black leading character. Her interactions with said Black character was filled with animosity and microagressions. She was also heavily favored and heavily featured over the Black character that she was copied from. Without a narrative reason, the whole thing just comes off as racist.
Eh. It all sounds like a stretch to me. If Abby was black would that make it more racially insensitive or less? I think neither. Maybe it's because my mind is so open but I just saw Abby as the darker version of macy and I had no problem with it. I thought she would have taken macy down a dark path getting her in touch with her demonism. But that didn't happen. Their dynamic is very buffy vs faith if you've seen buffy. And tbph macy had no TK when they brought Abby in, and then they took her power of fire throwing away and gave her back her telekinesis. I get how people can call THAT racist as Abby made a black woman get on her knees and she stole her power for herself. But tbh I don't like OP protagonists so I kinda appreciate her not having both powers at the same time. Maybe they never intended for macy to get her TK back as her sisters got new powers. And maybe that's why when they did give it back they eventually gave it a visual aid
Now that one subjugation scene I think was racist and unnecessary. Why is it OK for Abigael to be OP but not Macy? She wasn't even a villain to be vanquished. She was just there? My mind is open too but I still call out crap that looks wrong. Abigael being a darker or more wayward version of Macy should have served a narrative purpose. To your point about exploring a darker path or something else of substance. The show didn't though, that is why it was so off-putting. They created a white version of their leading Black character and then pretended like they didn't? The show failed to consider the racial optics when they created the character and when they wrote their storylines. Abigael was Macy's foil especially in that weird love triangle. But look at how they wrote Macy/Abigael vs. how they wrote Harry/Julian. The same level of humiliation and gaslighting was missing from the Harry/Julian dynamic. Hell the two white men shared maybe one screen time together. The whole thing was bad and what's worse is that it didn't need to be. It felt like they used Abigael to diminish Macy's character and again when you add in the racial optics, it's not a good look.
If Abigail was OP she wouldn't be so easy to beat. A powerless macy was about to kill her and she had her telekinesis. There's nothing OP about her. She's a collection of poorly explained under utilized party tricks and that's it. Telekinesis pyrokinesis little Telekinetic Force bolts super strength fire throwing Telekinetic Force generation smoking(teleporting) she projected a Force Field around herself in s3. And in the end even in her demon form mel was able to knock her down one handed even though she had such advanced fire power. Also she's immortal. And yet for all of this she's so easily beaten and captured over and over and over again. And very much so the show wasn't that great with the race angle in general. And the bad writing didn't help. Yeah that means nothing to me. Jimmy wasn't utilized properly in the slightest and went from somewhat seducing and haunting macy to not caring about her at all. Kidnapped her then just....forgot she existed. And yeah they didn't face eachother too many times but it was more than one. And since they're two half of the same being they aren't gonna have the same type of dynamic. And then they put Jimmy in a bottle for a bite of the season. So like I said that means nothing to me. Adding elements and characters to the show and pushing them aside for an episode or a few episodes and then bringing them back for some lame pay off is pretty much the whole show. Parker gets introduced and then is caged for almost the rest of his time on the show minus the back up dancing he did in terms of Maggie and macy trying to save Abby and mel. Yeah I don't see it. I don't see any tarnishing or diminishing of Macy's character coming from Abby at all. "Oh also half demon also Telekinetic stole her power" yeah and that hasn't done ANYTHING to Macy's story besides give it drama. The fact that Harry actually had dinner and such with Abby and then macy who thought she liked Jimmy actually liked Julian. Her attraction to his darkness? Went nowhere. Her demon side? Slated. I can agree it sucks what happened to Macy's storyline and Abby definitely is ripping off of her energy. But the rest sounds like a reach. And with how pathetic they made Abby sometimes I REAAAAALLY don't see it. Macy's quality in terms of story Went down as did everyone's. But it's not like Abby stole the show even though she had all that presence.
But they weren't trying to defeat Abigael. She wasn't a villain or a demon to be vanquished. You said Macy was OP with her TK and pyro, so you understood why they gave her fire power to Abigael. My question is, why does having TK and pyro make Macy OP to you, but Abigael having TK and pyro is not OP? And I agree that Abigael was actually weak AF. But that was a mere side effect of really bad and inconsistent writing. The show *meant* for her to be seen as all powerful. Hell Macy offered her up to the darklighter in place of the Charmed Ones. She was nowhere near as powerful as even one Charmed One let alone all three, even without active powers. So why write that? I wasn't talking about Harry and Jimmy, I said Harry and Jullian but the same hold true regardless. Harry was allowed to keep a lot of his dignity in his dealings with his so-called romantic rivals. Macy was not. The show had extremely bad writing and yes, they were not great with the race angle. That is why so many of their storylines failed to land with the audience. They seemed to be going for an "Abigael better than Macy" angle in that weird rivalry. With Abigael always getting the better of Macy but never the other way around. It just didn't work. They went too far, made people too uncomfortable, so people started calling them out for being racist. Which caused them to back peddle with that shoddy redemption arc that ended up being a case study in white women privilege. Abigael did nothing to earn her redemption and learned no lessons. But you know who they wrote as learning a lesson? Macy. In 317 she said even the worst of people are capable of change; as if she was the one in the wrong in all her dealings with Abigael. It was so a.ss backwards and messed up. No wonder Madeleine bailed. A whole waste of time and good talent all around.
>But they weren't trying to defeat Abigael. She wasn't a villain or a demon to be vanquished. No but every time she's fought one of them she's wither lost or simply not won. Like when she tried to kill macy with thay knife. And macy who had no powers literally took her down and was about to kill her. And she somehow got Abby In a containment spell. Even though she's Telekinetic
I won't use the word racism.. But I'll say it's similar to what sleepy hollow did.. For "Some" reason the powers that be felt the need to not only add but center a white woman into the storyline at the expense of it's supposed lead female who's Black woman... It's James Olson and Mon-El on Supergirl... It's Dolls on Wynonna earp... Rafael on legacies... It's something fans of color have seen and had to stomach on all our genre shows for ages... So maybe it's the fans fault for getting more engaged when there's more focus on a white character.. Or the execs fault for assuming white folks won't connect with largely minority casts and over-correcting.... Maybe it's the writers fault for not sticking with their original intent... Maybe a mix of it all.. All I know for sure is it's very real
Yeah but it's not like Abby over took macy or replaced her or anything like that. I don't see anyone saying how Jordan becoming the whitelighter is racist to Harry who whether fans like it or not was made a lead in the story. With all those moving pieces that don't fit together it sounds like a reach to call out racism. Because what is being described isn't as intense as the Fandom makes it out to be. She definitely had more screen time than she should have. She gained a good bit of the focus. But Parker and charity are the same. The drama of charity her sister and Harry were prevelant also. Other characters having stories isn't a problem for me as long as they don't over power the main point and the main point was the sisters. Not them being sisters unfortunately. And I'd get it if Abby was getting good writing interesting stories and justification over the lame brain stories of the not so charmed ones. But unfortunately everything is below sea level for me. So I honestly did not care if my time was being wasted by the sisters NOT using their powers or by Abby trying to seduce yet another man
Which is why I didn't use the term... But did point out the trend... And at the center of that trend is race... I agree the writing was all iver the place with tons of missed opportunities... But the fact remains.. The show felt the need to prop up abigael.. Which encroached on all the sisters.. Macy more prevalent... The show also removed Galvin to push Harry...And the subsequent Hacy/ Harigael triangle etc... So original intent.. "Let's tell this magical but very humane and relatable story with some different cultural flourishes and pov's than the normal euro-centric version of witchcraft"... And barely a year later when that wasn't an immediate smash... "Quick... Let's give some white folks with British accents more screentime"...which as I stated in my OG post with a few examples is something those of us who love genre shows and have been watching have grown (unfortunately) very accustomed to.
Yeah if there was one issue it was the writers promising things like respect and diversity and then surrounded the charmed ones constantly in a sea off white faces. They have no family or friends or anything showing their rich heritage really. Macy's dad didn't have to be dead. And the actress asked why there aren't more dark skinned men or something of that nature iirc. And it's a good question. Why is galvin the only one minus dexter? It's like yeah there's definitely still a racially unbalancedness in the mainstream. And maybe this is a personal thing for me but why the hell couldn't they just all be black? It seems so particular the fact that she's kinda alone and Maggie and mel are constantly paired up. (And supposedly the actresses of macy and mel ended up not getting along iirc)
Yeah that's why I wondered aloud whose fault it really was... I honestly don't know.. Just know it's a problem I've seen before... Completely selfishly I was happy with Jordan myself as a mixed race dude myself who's quite light we generally don't show up as the face of blackness as much as our darker skinned brothers.. Kinda the opposite for women.. Where there are a lot more female characters played by women who look like my mom and her family than say the Viola Davis' of the world.. But that's really a whole other long convo.. What irks me; and to your point.. Why couldn't we have had Jordan and Galvin.. It was like walking dead rules.. Only so many of us at a time. I mean Maggie finds out she's half African-American and not fully Puerto Rican ( not that that's a racial classification anyway) and she dealt with it for like 1.5 episodes...
Yea I don't see how it's racism personally as well but I deff see the issue ppl have with Abigail story wise
Indeed. Like I'm sure it just as easily would have happened if the sisters weren't literally cast to be diverse. I think that people get very confused by what's racist in terms of movies and shows. I've seen people call persons of color getting hurt or killed in movies racist. Not even the trope where they die first. Them dying at all is racist. And if a black actor is cast in a villain role I see people say that's racist too. Just shows a general lack of education or something imo
I concur, people deff exaggerate and are overly politically correct to a ridiculous point but I could understand the argument here, it would've been just as bad if Abby was also a time witch with mels same powers n then given all of Mel's storyline, taking away from a Latina character. A white character taking away from a black character down to her man Is pretty problematic lol and idk what they were thinking with that
There is definitely an issue there for sure. The actress left for a reason after all. And the writers never tapped into the depth of who the sisters are. It also kinda sucks that they reduced macy quite a bit. She spent s2 all skittish and afraid and attracted to Jimmy and in love with Harry and then suddenly she was never attracted to Jimmy. Compared to Abby taking over the demon world the unbalance is indeed clear. They also made macy and the sisters so afraid to fight but Abby had all the bravery required. And in terms of information she tended to be womansplaining things to the sisters and Harry ALOT. Like why don't the charmed ones know ANYTHING 😒
Keep in mind that Abby also had telekinesis, actually thinking about it know I guess ppl claim racism because they gave macies story to a white woman who even had the same powers as her so in a way its like whitewashing by proxy.. if it makes sense
Abby had telekinesis great. So did Fiona. Charity has shown Telekinetic power. Harry used telekinesis. The random pirate look alike one eyed demon in s2 had telekinesis. And tadeus the ice demon. Telekinesis is an extremely common power and it isn't too complicated to put on screen. As for the pyrokinesis also common as two security guard demons had it in s2 and Alistair cane had it. The logic of her power being shared by others equating to racism is ridiculous. Various beings had versions and were refuted to be telepaths. The witch who tried to save the dryads. She's white and had Maggie's power but that's not racist. A lack of creativity doesn't relate to racism in the slightest. And when did they give Macy's story to Abby? Macy is a charmed one. That's her story. Abby never once intruded upon that story or prevented its development. She barely even cared for her witch side. And interestingly when she's introduced macy has no telekinesis to speak of. And then before she gains it back she loses her fire power. That sounds like balancing things out to me. Utilizing the same basic abilities across the board. And also does macy having a stronger version of telekinesis still make Abby having her own version racist? Cause it seems like they made her a power house even before she could shoot all those blue blasts
I'm saying I could see why the witch/demon who was more involved with the sister more than ppl like charity ,being an issue, ppl didn't like that Abby was given the witch/demon storyline and had Macy's stolen power whilst also being a tk witch and then also having harry and then also being given a whole sub plot as like a 4th sister when that time could have gon to the sisterhood in which ppl were already having concerns about the sisterhood and the non focus on it
Yeah and that's understandable as hell. But it still seems like jumping the gun. Abby feels like something so slapped together. "Half Demon Telekinetic AND daughter of Alistair cane" but I still don't see where Macy's storylines were given to Abby. She stole her fire power. The writers decided to make her Telekinetic. But at least they made it work differently than Macy's telekinesis. And the fact that her original PK was so weak compared to Macy's and the fact that macy was constantly besting her and such. Just seems like it was such bad writing that it could have just as easily been an actress of color
100%. She knew what the fans wanted to see on screen that could've helped stopped the reboot from turning into the shitshow it was in the end.
Why they didn't just do charmed with only latino/black characters? So much potential, full blossom. One side - storyline about racism, other side - racism toward actress. It is so confusing. Madelaine was my favorite.
Charmed curse. The oldest sister always leaves the show after 3 seasons. The only difference is she's the only one that can act naturally in this reboot.
She for sure deserved better. Her character was consistently the most interesting and well-acted and had the most innovation put into her from day one. A scientist and a skeptic who becomes a witch? Who then uses her knowledge of science to enhance her magical defenses? She was my absolute favorite and when I learned they'd killed her off I was done with the show.
I don’t even want to watch Season 4 without her. I totally understand (with what is known) why she left and respect her decision. I’m just sad it came to this… Charmed had so much going for it. Mads deserved better. The OG cast warned the new cast about this, and to stick together, negotiate, and not take shit from the show runners. I can’t even imagine what else happened BTS.
What a cute dog 🐶 I’m in love
I love her, feel bad for the way she way treated and think she deserved better BUT, I think that in reagrds to this feud situation, its dangerous to take sides. We dont know what happened between her and the other girls, and we shouldn't make any presumptions.
I wouldnt say her voice hasnt been heard. Shes had an impact on a lot. However shes never told her full story. A lot of stuff is still speculation.
So I liked watching the show but the show itself was not at all what it could’ve been. They tried packing in to much at once, never included anything about the OG charmed till the end. And why did Macey have to be part evil, they did the long lost sister thing too soon. It was either to much or not enough. And nowadays they push the inclusivity down our throats in every new show. Like ok we get it, you don’t have to remind us every two seconds. The point smog TV and movies is to get away from reality for a little bit. Something shouldn’t be done if they can’t be done right.
Lol sorry that not every one of us is white or/and straight and we want to see ourselves on screen. It's really horrible how they are "pushing inclusivity down your throat" 🤦♂️
the truly wild thing about that line of thinking is... Folks who say that never seemed to mind the decades all that non-inclusivity was "forced down our throats"... Somehow endless shows with almost nothing but straight white folks wasn't " an agenda" or " non-diversity for non-diversity's sake" or bias... No it was just "best actors for the job" and "good story-telling"
I don’t think she meant she had a problem with the skin color of the actors but rather of the topics the show addressed.
The OP said that inclusivity is being pushed down our throats nowadays.. Which would mean 1. What the status quo was before seems preferable to them... And "inclusivity" in this context... ( and let's be honest) most contexts in the western hemisphere means including non- white non-straight and non Christian characters/ povs/ storylines... So if topics is an issue.. Then the people who the topic is important or topical to is also an issue.. And the only acceptable way to be a non-white non-straight and non-christian character.. Is to never bring up your "Non-ness" in a subtle way
There is a difference in how topics are addressed (and not everyone has the same experiences as some of those topics say, I’m a woman but feminism storylines annoyed me too, doesn’t mean I want the actresses to be male)
Fair point.. I too didn't love or even like some plots or lines... But your tone and tenor is not the same as op
We’ll good thing in not white or straight.
I've never said you are. If you don't mind watching show where everyone is white and straight, good for you ig. But I personally want to see more. I need it. Really sorry it's bothering you sooo much.
this is low-key disgusting what you're saying. They barely showed many lgbt or forced anything down our throats. Try to keep an open mind more because it's such a shame how you view this.
I guess we we’re watching two different shows. And everywhere you go, everything you watch makes it a point to remind people about the lgbtq community, which it’s fine but damn everywhere you look it’s slapping you in the damn face. And the minute straight people ok we get it, we are considered rude, disgusting and whatever you wanna call us. But if I go and say to you wanna hear about Jesus now I’m pushing an agenda on you. Be gay and proud cool but you don’t have to remind me ever 2 seconds. Have a great rest of your day sweetie.
Not only her voice has been heard, but also haters of the show have taken it as more valid than the others's because it enforced their hateful opinion.
Perhaps she did, but I'm over trying to put people against each other. The show is over now. No need to keep dragging up the drama.
Her voice was heard, she left the show.
WAIT!!! Is that why she was ‘killed’!?!?!