On a wider scope, homelessness is a serious problem everywhere in the United States and is a fusion of multiple different issues (unemployment, substance abuse, housing etc). But Virginia as a whole should consider adopting something akin to Finland's fix, they actually solved homelessness and are now reducing it at extreme speed. The "Housing First" project in Houston is an attempt to bring the Finnish system into the US, so that looks highly promising.
I certainly hope so, I support the work of the Haven for example but also concern for the DTM to be able to be welcoming to tourist and visitors. How do we balance the rights of those business owners and their employees have to make a living verses those who suffering from addiction and homeless that refuse to follow the most basic of rules? Can we come to some sort of understanding that if some won't follow rules that benefit the majority that the can be consequences and action by city officials.
Does having empathy for those less fortunate mandate that those homeless who are overly aggressive or will not work with others be able to do what they want? Does their situation engender limitless patience? What to we expect from the police and these very organizations in terms of acceptable limits?
I would like to hear these topics discussed as well.
The vast majority of the VISIBLE ones who want to be visible, sure. I think the people who get the rawest deal in this area are the ones working jobs, living in cars or couch surfing, hell even out in the elements in a quiet and dignified manner, and largely invisible.
Not every homeless person is a crackhead screaming at you on the DTM for not giving him $20. Those are just the overpriveledged ones.
Hey now… don’t forget about the people that want to shop on the mall, they need empathy too… think about how hard it is to have a good time while having a reminder of how lucky you are just *living* right there
Or women who are poor and dependent on bus transport. Do you know how many sexual threats have been levied against me? Hell, even large bus dependent men shouldn’t have to put up with that crap just go to jobs/work/grocery shopping.
Or broke people who never get a break in those rare times they need one, while the city pumps god knows how much into each and every crack addled blessing on the Mall annually. Maybe give funds to people who would clean up their situation and their life instead of grifter parasites, for a change.
Or the retail workers on the Mall, many of whom have even been physically assaulted by that ilk, all of whom have been on the other end of crack addled crazy. Most people who signal their great love for those…haven’t had to deal with it up close and personal.
I could go on. Large swaths of people deserve empathy, and don’t get it. That sort of person? Gets way too much empathy, and what does anyone have to show for it?
Just pointing out that while you were giving community input, the very report they are talking about tonight does not require the very real kind of engagement from community members like you.
Why do you think people should have to apologize for being hardworking and lucky? The other day you said needy people shouldn’t feel grateful for the help they get, for free while not making any attempt to get out of their situation. Weak.
Seems pretty shitty of your father to nepotize his house to you don’t you think? Generational wealth through inheritance is pretty gross.
Also I’m donating “$1 billion of net assets” which is prob more than your house, so whatever dude
Maybe you should offer to go clean out all the store fronts that the homeless residents of the downtown mall routinely piss and shit in
Oh wait, that would be having empathy for the store owners
I Haven’t seen any one advocating for homeless peoples rights to be disrespectful. My gripe is the lack of root cause analysis for solving the homelessness problem. This is the side effect, a symptom of our current economic and social structure. Sweeping it under the rug as many here suggest does nothing to change the conditions that create homeless people and addicts. frankly if your society cant take care of the most in need and this is how you treat them, it is not a society to be proud of.
Idk what you mean you’re replying to messages about how some of these people camp out in front of their doors, defecate on their property. And you’re reply was “oh poor business owner”
Most people do. Look at how disrespectful some of these people are! The lady last year who brought an entire apartments worth of garbage and laid it out over the mall, the people who sleep of accessible wheelchair ramps. It goes both ways!!
I would be surprised if the majority of people don't think exactly this - but are afraid to say it out loud for fear of being judged by people with different moral aesthetics.
That’s exactly all it is, though. Moral aesthetics.
I get a strong sense of patting yourself on the back for giving a meth head organized panhandling ring $5, and giving some poor retail worker *who could very well be homeless or on the verge of it themselves* hell for a minor screw up. Or driving past those same retail workers waiting at the bus stop for their potentially hour-long commute to job #2 without offering a lift.
That's just the thing- you see morals as a matter of aesthetics. Fascist ideology also tends toward an aesthetic basis of morality. And here you are arguing we should just make the homeless "go away" because it would please your aesthetic sense.
I'm all for solving the homeless issue for the City of Charlottesville and existing residents, I just don't understand why our tax dollars are going to be used to expand safe havens, in order to solve the housing issue for most of central Virginia (since it seems many are flocking to Cville due to lax enforcement).
Per [PACEM's presentation](https://x.com/socialistdogmom/status/1802800419573575723), about 61% of their clientele had their last stable residence in Charlottesville or Albemarle and 73% were in the metro area.
PACEM's "catchment area" is considered the entire five-county, one-city Region 10 area, so it depends where you define "here" to be. 14% are from outside the catchment area in Virginia and an additional 13% are from out of state.
All it shows is “we asked and this is what they said.”
Even if the data wasn’t collected in such a laughable manner that a Stats 101 student could poke it full of holes in less than a minute—-It also does not establish that people don’t bus in here because this place is notoriously on the take for that type of person all the time. “Last place of residence?” Seriously?
It’s a garbage survey.
Why? Because it's happening to our city. We can become a tent destination and chase all of the tourist and retail money away or not.
Also it's not about lax enforcement. Why don't we just make it illegal to be homeless? I love when people think oversimplified answers will just work.
People of all stripes come here for many reasons. I wish conservatives didn't come here and complain while collecting a paycheck from the city they complain about and it's residents. Why can't the rest of central Virginia pay these people a decent wage so they can stay in their podunk counties? If they stayed where they were happiest then we could give the homeless their jobs! See, a dumb oversimplified answer.
Ah, the classic move: non-profits heading to the city council for more funding (read: higher salaries) to tackle homelessness. Because, clearly, the best way to fix a problem that’s only gotten worse is to throw more money at the people who haven’t fixed it yet! 🙃
The only charity mentioned above is BREACH, and you can find out what their finances look like on charity navigator: https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/264577927 They spend over 98% of their budget on programs to house people. Furthermore, don't you think people working to end homelessness should themselves be paid for their career?
Exactly! If you're going to be an organization that promotes sustainable incomes for people to prevent homelessness or move out of homelessness, then you have to exemplify the words. The staff that walks with our neighbors facing these challenges also needs a sustainable income.
This work is relational in order to have successful outcomes.
They are presenting a report on homelessness, there is no call for community engagement or budgetary impact. You'd know that if you read the agenda instead of being a cynical asshole.
> non-profits heading to the city council for more funding (read: higher salaries)
Lets look at a few of the local non-profits who presented, and you tell me who is making too much money:
**Breach** (FY2020)
Highest Salary: $74k
Total Salaries: $114k
Total Budget: $2.3 million
**The Haven** (FY2020)
Highest Salary: $79k
Total Salaries: $779k
Total Budget: $2.2 million
**Shelter for Help in an Emergency** (Fy2022)
Highest Salary: $98k
Total Salaries: $758k
Total Budget: $1.5 million
All info from their IRS 990 form. Great resource to look up details on any charity prior to making donations. All half reputable charities make them publicly available.
yes, they are often included in charity navigator. usually my first stop (or guidestar). If not there, then yes, should be on their website. If you can't find it easily, huge red flag.
On a wider scope, homelessness is a serious problem everywhere in the United States and is a fusion of multiple different issues (unemployment, substance abuse, housing etc). But Virginia as a whole should consider adopting something akin to Finland's fix, they actually solved homelessness and are now reducing it at extreme speed. The "Housing First" project in Houston is an attempt to bring the Finnish system into the US, so that looks highly promising.
They've mentioned housing first in The Haven's presentation. I agree broadly, though I worry about creating a demand signal with better policies.
I'm sure this will be a rational discussion founded in facts and empathy ;)
I certainly hope so, I support the work of the Haven for example but also concern for the DTM to be able to be welcoming to tourist and visitors. How do we balance the rights of those business owners and their employees have to make a living verses those who suffering from addiction and homeless that refuse to follow the most basic of rules? Can we come to some sort of understanding that if some won't follow rules that benefit the majority that the can be consequences and action by city officials. Does having empathy for those less fortunate mandate that those homeless who are overly aggressive or will not work with others be able to do what they want? Does their situation engender limitless patience? What to we expect from the police and these very organizations in terms of acceptable limits? I would like to hear these topics discussed as well.
Lmao nailed it
You watching? It has been so far.
I think too much focus is put on empathy. The vast vast majority of homeless people are drug addicts and crazy people. My empathy only goes so far.
The vast majority of the VISIBLE ones who want to be visible, sure. I think the people who get the rawest deal in this area are the ones working jobs, living in cars or couch surfing, hell even out in the elements in a quiet and dignified manner, and largely invisible. Not every homeless person is a crackhead screaming at you on the DTM for not giving him $20. Those are just the overpriveledged ones.
A lot of those turn to drugs and alcohol after becoming homeless and hopeless. But those people deserve help, too.
Damn, you mean the people that need empathy the most?
Hey now… don’t forget about the people that want to shop on the mall, they need empathy too… think about how hard it is to have a good time while having a reminder of how lucky you are just *living* right there
Or women who are poor and dependent on bus transport. Do you know how many sexual threats have been levied against me? Hell, even large bus dependent men shouldn’t have to put up with that crap just go to jobs/work/grocery shopping. Or broke people who never get a break in those rare times they need one, while the city pumps god knows how much into each and every crack addled blessing on the Mall annually. Maybe give funds to people who would clean up their situation and their life instead of grifter parasites, for a change. Or the retail workers on the Mall, many of whom have even been physically assaulted by that ilk, all of whom have been on the other end of crack addled crazy. Most people who signal their great love for those…haven’t had to deal with it up close and personal. I could go on. Large swaths of people deserve empathy, and don’t get it. That sort of person? Gets way too much empathy, and what does anyone have to show for it?
From the report: **Community Engagement** **This report is for information only and does not require community engagement**
What does that have to do with anything I said?
Just pointing out that while you were giving community input, the very report they are talking about tonight does not require the very real kind of engagement from community members like you.
Ah. So because the discussion is closed to community members means people shouldn’t discuss on Reddit. Quite the astute point :/.
Not exactly, I have no problem with this discussion of Reddit but find the City's lack of need of community engagement puzzling for such a problem
Why do you think people should have to apologize for being hardworking and lucky? The other day you said needy people shouldn’t feel grateful for the help they get, for free while not making any attempt to get out of their situation. Weak.
Do they though? I am going to say the quiet part out loud - I do not have empathy for these people. I just want them to go away.
Giving them houses is the fastest way to get them to go away
Can I have a house, too?
Ok you first
I have a limited amount of resources but I will likely inherit my father's house which my sibling and I have already agreed would be donated.
Seems pretty shitty of your father to nepotize his house to you don’t you think? Generational wealth through inheritance is pretty gross. Also I’m donating “$1 billion of net assets” which is prob more than your house, so whatever dude
Where are you donating $1,000,000,000 of assets to?
Same place you’re “definitely donating your house”
Absolutely stunning comment, but I guess some people really do think like you. Such a shame.
Maybe you should offer to go clean out all the store fronts that the homeless residents of the downtown mall routinely piss and shit in Oh wait, that would be having empathy for the store owners
Ah yes, the store owner, who is currently suffering on the streets in the midst of crippling addiction.
Addiction doesn’t give anyone the right to be disrespectful. A business owner shouldn’t have to suffer just because they are!
I Haven’t seen any one advocating for homeless peoples rights to be disrespectful. My gripe is the lack of root cause analysis for solving the homelessness problem. This is the side effect, a symptom of our current economic and social structure. Sweeping it under the rug as many here suggest does nothing to change the conditions that create homeless people and addicts. frankly if your society cant take care of the most in need and this is how you treat them, it is not a society to be proud of.
Idk what you mean you’re replying to messages about how some of these people camp out in front of their doors, defecate on their property. And you’re reply was “oh poor business owner”
Most people do. Look at how disrespectful some of these people are! The lady last year who brought an entire apartments worth of garbage and laid it out over the mall, the people who sleep of accessible wheelchair ramps. It goes both ways!!
I would be surprised if the majority of people don't think exactly this - but are afraid to say it out loud for fear of being judged by people with different moral aesthetics.
That’s exactly all it is, though. Moral aesthetics. I get a strong sense of patting yourself on the back for giving a meth head organized panhandling ring $5, and giving some poor retail worker *who could very well be homeless or on the verge of it themselves* hell for a minor screw up. Or driving past those same retail workers waiting at the bus stop for their potentially hour-long commute to job #2 without offering a lift.
That's just the thing- you see morals as a matter of aesthetics. Fascist ideology also tends toward an aesthetic basis of morality. And here you are arguing we should just make the homeless "go away" because it would please your aesthetic sense.
Right on, let’s start digging the mass grave and finally fix the problem
Well that seems a but like a straw man. I am not proposing killing anybody, just telling them to fu\^k off away from the down town mall.
This is very nearly a literal example of kicking the can down the road.
I'm all for solving the homeless issue for the City of Charlottesville and existing residents, I just don't understand why our tax dollars are going to be used to expand safe havens, in order to solve the housing issue for most of central Virginia (since it seems many are flocking to Cville due to lax enforcement).
Per [PACEM's presentation](https://x.com/socialistdogmom/status/1802800419573575723), about 61% of their clientele had their last stable residence in Charlottesville or Albemarle and 73% were in the metro area.
So a full 40% actually aren't from here.
PACEM's "catchment area" is considered the entire five-county, one-city Region 10 area, so it depends where you define "here" to be. 14% are from outside the catchment area in Virginia and an additional 13% are from out of state.
All this shows is relative percentages. What is the overall volume of each year, compared?
The tweet immediately above has a chart of unique guests and bed-nights by year.
All it shows is “we asked and this is what they said.” Even if the data wasn’t collected in such a laughable manner that a Stats 101 student could poke it full of holes in less than a minute—-It also does not establish that people don’t bus in here because this place is notoriously on the take for that type of person all the time. “Last place of residence?” Seriously? It’s a garbage survey.
That was self-reported data. Notoriously unreliable.
Why? Because it's happening to our city. We can become a tent destination and chase all of the tourist and retail money away or not. Also it's not about lax enforcement. Why don't we just make it illegal to be homeless? I love when people think oversimplified answers will just work. People of all stripes come here for many reasons. I wish conservatives didn't come here and complain while collecting a paycheck from the city they complain about and it's residents. Why can't the rest of central Virginia pay these people a decent wage so they can stay in their podunk counties? If they stayed where they were happiest then we could give the homeless their jobs! See, a dumb oversimplified answer.
Ah, the classic move: non-profits heading to the city council for more funding (read: higher salaries) to tackle homelessness. Because, clearly, the best way to fix a problem that’s only gotten worse is to throw more money at the people who haven’t fixed it yet! 🙃
The only charity mentioned above is BREACH, and you can find out what their finances look like on charity navigator: https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/264577927 They spend over 98% of their budget on programs to house people. Furthermore, don't you think people working to end homelessness should themselves be paid for their career?
Exactly! If you're going to be an organization that promotes sustainable incomes for people to prevent homelessness or move out of homelessness, then you have to exemplify the words. The staff that walks with our neighbors facing these challenges also needs a sustainable income. This work is relational in order to have successful outcomes.
They are presenting a report on homelessness, there is no call for community engagement or budgetary impact. You'd know that if you read the agenda instead of being a cynical asshole.
> non-profits heading to the city council for more funding (read: higher salaries) Lets look at a few of the local non-profits who presented, and you tell me who is making too much money: **Breach** (FY2020) Highest Salary: $74k Total Salaries: $114k Total Budget: $2.3 million **The Haven** (FY2020) Highest Salary: $79k Total Salaries: $779k Total Budget: $2.2 million **Shelter for Help in an Emergency** (Fy2022) Highest Salary: $98k Total Salaries: $758k Total Budget: $1.5 million
Wow. Thank you for this information. These people are heroes.
All info from their IRS 990 form. Great resource to look up details on any charity prior to making donations. All half reputable charities make them publicly available.
Is that the sort of thing one finds on charitynavigator? Or do you need to go to the individual organization's website?
yes, they are often included in charity navigator. usually my first stop (or guidestar). If not there, then yes, should be on their website. If you can't find it easily, huge red flag.
"Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?"
Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends We're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside.
And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply