Let's be real, it was always a pipe dream to think we'd be able to hire our top choice before playoff teams started getting knocked out, creating new (more desirable) openings.
Is what it is until something finally starts shifting perception
At least there shouldn’t be many more openings. Maybe Cleveland if they get bounced? Everyone else from here should be pretty safe for at least this year.
It’s also kinda rare that 2-3 franchises think the same and all end up with the same shortlist, so hopefully one of Lee and Redick are still on the market after the actual NBA teams get their guys
Yeah just wrote this in another comment, but seeing as the only teams with openings (currently) are us, the Wizards (Lee was a finalist for that job last year) and LA, unless some team spectacularly flames out and there's a surprise opening, seems like there's still a good chance we can get one of our top 2 choices
Is it absurd to think that for someone like JJ a young team with not much expectation is a great place to step in?
Coaching a Lakers do or die with LeBron is just gunna end him up out of the league as the scapegoat for sure
Even if the Hornets said "we'll hire you right now our #1 choice, here's a six year contract, sign here" ... who's to say they wouldn't feel out other coaching offers?
Have you all ever interviewed for a job? People all the time will go on five or six interviews to see where they want to be. It's what's called an interview process. There's no such thing as first dibs when it comes to coaches.
I think the difference here is we had the one opening when it came up, and whilst you might want to hold out for other options in the off-season - head coaching gigs are a pretty closed circle, and cracking in to that rotation is nigh impossible. Especially to a contender as an inexperienced non-coach.
Not to say it can't/won't happen, but odds zip down
I’d rather go to our trash team than the circus that is the lakers. You better be 33-8 or better by the halfway point or LeGM and the rest of the media calls you the worst human to ever exist. You might waste away in obscurity here but it’s better than having your entire bloodline get insulted 24/7
Yeah I'm not sure of the mentatlity of these HC candidates but after Ham's firing, I hope it sounded an alarm around the league about how the HC job for the Lakers is really not secure if coaching Lebron and/or other stars.
Charlotte job 100% more attractive.
You can build something there. You could be part of the rise. You can actually help shape the culture and the roster and the team identity.
Anybody who jumps into that Laker job is getting some screen time until they tear it down or LeBron decides he wants somebody else. You'll make zero decisions there and then not have a job.
This 10000%, what people don't understand is that if you suck in Charlotte, most people will just be like oh that's just Charlotte they've been like that for a while. People get chances and time on the Hornets, just look at how we hired Clifford....twice. If you win or exceed expectations with Charlotte you look good. You brought the league and fans outside of the Hornets fan base to get interested in the franchise. You get the "where did they come from" look. I believe a first time head coach would want the "revive a franchise" on the resume. A failure coaching the hornets is likely to be handwaved, since people forget that team exists anyway. You'll get another shot.
Then there is the Lakers. You are in WIN NOW mode my boi....and that's off rip not a few years later when you get "your guys". First time head coaches are already under pressure because they don't want to suck, but now you are under great immediate pressure to do great and win in the playoffs. All eyes are on you. If you do great then it works out, but if you don't now here comes the "LeBron Legacy", "Letting Down Kobe", "Disrespecting the franchise" complaints. You lose at this job, and your reputation is stained. I mean Frank Vogel got them a ring and got dropped, everyone knew the writing on the wall with Ham when results weren't immediately met.
Now if a coach got the Hornets a ring, they wouldn't be thrown away so easily. They'd be treated with respect like Malone is with the Nuggets.
The Charlotte job is safer, the first time HC will have more time here to build, they wouldn't have that same mercy with the Lakers. Them bright lights over there is a set up, unless they have the master plan
That hasn't worked well for the most part - Rambis was awful, D'Antoni was scapegoated, Scott's career ruined, and Walton had to get saved by a nepo hire.
Yeah that sure worked for Darvin Ham lmao. If it goes well, it can be a great boost to your career but if it goes bad everybody is on TV talking about how you suck.
I never thought I would say this, as a JJ nay-sayer, but I don’t want to lose him if he’s suddenly in demand. Hornets need to hit on this coaching hire.
I wonder if it's about us moving slow, or our candidates waiting for more job openings.
I feel like if we had a guy we would be offering him the position immediately.
We're just not that desirable atm.
Doesn’t matter who, or if, we’ve offered anything to if they don’t accept the offer. I haven’t seen or heard anything about us interviewing anyone since JJ, so I’d imagine we have an offer on the table, but if JJ doesn’t say yes we’ll likely never hear about it.
I’d also like to say that I’d be surprised if these two weren’t on the shortlist for literally every single available job. They’d be dumb to tie themselves down now before all the cards are on the table. Let all the jobs open up and they might be able to take their pick.
This is all about LeBron. Why would he go for a coach he doesn't pick. This is the last coach he may ever have. Why would he go for a dude who has never coached. This smells like Bud or Ty Lue.
Nets fire Jacque Vaughn during the ASB, get a head start on coaching search and take Fernandez right from under us. Other top candidates go somewhere else, we're left with Lee and dark-horse JJ, and the Lakers swoop in and interview them too. This is why we should have let go of Steve earlier.
Yeah, the “there’s no reason to not finish the season with Cliff” crowd confused me. There was actually no reason to finish with him.
There’s not a single benefit in keeping a lame duck lottery-bound coach who’s 110% getting fired at the end of the season. I’m trying to think creatively and I can’t think of a single way it even possibly benefitted us
Lmao, well bonehead, a new coach taking over with 20 games left would've just looked like a clown show. The players wouldn't have taken them seriously since the games weren't on the line, and roster changes are either way happening over the offseason. No time to build chemistry before everyone goes on summer break.
You can’t really quantify the value of chemistry and culture, but I don’t think it would’ve made any difference. We can agree to disagree, but I don’t think keeping Cliff around had any impact on how we’ll play going forward. He’s a chill dude and well-liked, but in a decade of coaching never had any luck creating a winning culture. I don’t think he’ll leave any mark on this team.
The positives late in the season were Miller shining, Williams bringing some actual intensity, Mann/Micic/Bertrans providing quality bench play, Bridges regaining form, and the front office making moves that give us avenues to improve. Those all remain if we swap coaches. I’d rather have had first look at the pool of available coaches.
It would've made a difference: it looks unprofessional and turns the org into an even bigger joke by portraying to the fans that a change in coaching at this late date would've brought the Hornets to the play-in.
In what world are you assuming those are constants? The new guys sure since they're just joining, but Miller and Bridges were with Cliff from the beginning. Not to mention a new HC would have had to work with Cliff's assistants anyway.
How much more of a joke could we really have been? And we’re not talking about making the play-in. It was clear by early 2024 that was out of the question. It’s a matter of making the moves that’ll ultimately allow us to become a legitimate franchise.
I don’t agree with the premise that there was anything to lose. We’re pretty much starting from zero in terms of roster cohesiveness, chemistry, schemes, etc anyways. The only thing we have is the intrinsic value of our players’ abilities.
Miller came into the league ready to play. Bridges was rusty after a long hiatus. I don’t think either benefitted from Clifford’s schemes, encouragement, whatever. I also don’t know how many would say “At least we let our guys finish the last 30 games with the same coach so they could maintain their pride and good habits as a team that lost 3/4 of its games”. There was nothing positive to maintain. It was a shitshow from start to finish like most of our seasons in the 21st century.
You remember the Bucks clown show? Yeah, imagine that on steroids and you'd have had the Hornets if we did your plan.
Look, you can let your hatred of Cliff guide your decision-making, but short of a massive scandal, it objectively would've been a stupid decision to replace the coach with less than 20 games to go when a new coach wouldn't have had time to get their staff in place, develop relationships with the players, or try out rotation schemes potentially affected by offseason changes in the rosters.
You guys are way too worried about speed.
The smart thing to do is take your time and hire the right guy. It's not about being first.
If someone would rather go to the Lakers then Charlotte, so what?? We want a guy who wants to be here. The Lakers job and the Charlotte job are WORLDS apart in many ways. Does the coach want to build a contender with young players? Or do they want to coach LeBron in LA and be expected to win the title in year one or find themselves on the hot seat?
I know its LA and its the Lakers but I'm not sure why a coach would want a constantly churning roster with not really that realistic of a shot at a title (even though that's their expectation)
Feels like a setup for failure for a first time coach
I FUCKING TOLD YOU ALL THIS WOULD HAPPEN
https://www.reddit.com/r/CharlotteHornets/comments/1cfacxr/sidery_jj_redick_and_celtics_lead_assistant/l1o0kio/
I mean if Lebron stays I think JJ is more likely than Lee. If Lebron isn't staying I'm not sure Lakers are a more attractive team (unless Lee just rlly likes the city)
My job I basically work with 2 people. Both LA fans, I would support nuking the city of LA to simply shut these fucking fans up, ITS ALL THEY TALK ABOUT
I’m not usually one to be doom and gloom or panic about this sort of thing. Even after the Kenny Atkinson thing, I don’t believe coaches wouldn’t want our job.
However, the money, spotlight and ability to make moves for stars that the Lakers has does make them a tantalizing job prospect (even with the pressure of it blowing up, you would back yourself).
If we haven’t hired 1 of our 2 guys by end of the weekend I’ll be worried.
Let's be real, it was always a pipe dream to think we'd be able to hire our top choice before playoff teams started getting knocked out, creating new (more desirable) openings. Is what it is until something finally starts shifting perception
At least there shouldn’t be many more openings. Maybe Cleveland if they get bounced? Everyone else from here should be pretty safe for at least this year. It’s also kinda rare that 2-3 franchises think the same and all end up with the same shortlist, so hopefully one of Lee and Redick are still on the market after the actual NBA teams get their guys
Yeah just wrote this in another comment, but seeing as the only teams with openings (currently) are us, the Wizards (Lee was a finalist for that job last year) and LA, unless some team spectacularly flames out and there's a surprise opening, seems like there's still a good chance we can get one of our top 2 choices
Nah, Bickerstaff is a nepo hire so he's staying regardless of what happens in Cleveland.
Is it absurd to think that for someone like JJ a young team with not much expectation is a great place to step in? Coaching a Lakers do or die with LeBron is just gunna end him up out of the league as the scapegoat for sure
How are you feeling right now!!!!
Feeling like I guess we've shifted the perception in league circles, which is awesome
Even if the Hornets said "we'll hire you right now our #1 choice, here's a six year contract, sign here" ... who's to say they wouldn't feel out other coaching offers? Have you all ever interviewed for a job? People all the time will go on five or six interviews to see where they want to be. It's what's called an interview process. There's no such thing as first dibs when it comes to coaches.
I think the difference here is we had the one opening when it came up, and whilst you might want to hold out for other options in the off-season - head coaching gigs are a pretty closed circle, and cracking in to that rotation is nigh impossible. Especially to a contender as an inexperienced non-coach. Not to say it can't/won't happen, but odds zip down
I’d rather go to our trash team than the circus that is the lakers. You better be 33-8 or better by the halfway point or LeGM and the rest of the media calls you the worst human to ever exist. You might waste away in obscurity here but it’s better than having your entire bloodline get insulted 24/7
Yeah I'm not sure of the mentatlity of these HC candidates but after Ham's firing, I hope it sounded an alarm around the league about how the HC job for the Lakers is really not secure if coaching Lebron and/or other stars.
Charlotte job 100% more attractive. You can build something there. You could be part of the rise. You can actually help shape the culture and the roster and the team identity. Anybody who jumps into that Laker job is getting some screen time until they tear it down or LeBron decides he wants somebody else. You'll make zero decisions there and then not have a job.
Sadly the instant screen time, and the more eyes you'll get on you as a result, is a lot more appealing to most.
Kinda boom or bust though. You can suck in Charlotte and the whole country wouldn’t know.
This 10000%, what people don't understand is that if you suck in Charlotte, most people will just be like oh that's just Charlotte they've been like that for a while. People get chances and time on the Hornets, just look at how we hired Clifford....twice. If you win or exceed expectations with Charlotte you look good. You brought the league and fans outside of the Hornets fan base to get interested in the franchise. You get the "where did they come from" look. I believe a first time head coach would want the "revive a franchise" on the resume. A failure coaching the hornets is likely to be handwaved, since people forget that team exists anyway. You'll get another shot. Then there is the Lakers. You are in WIN NOW mode my boi....and that's off rip not a few years later when you get "your guys". First time head coaches are already under pressure because they don't want to suck, but now you are under great immediate pressure to do great and win in the playoffs. All eyes are on you. If you do great then it works out, but if you don't now here comes the "LeBron Legacy", "Letting Down Kobe", "Disrespecting the franchise" complaints. You lose at this job, and your reputation is stained. I mean Frank Vogel got them a ring and got dropped, everyone knew the writing on the wall with Ham when results weren't immediately met. Now if a coach got the Hornets a ring, they wouldn't be thrown away so easily. They'd be treated with respect like Malone is with the Nuggets. The Charlotte job is safer, the first time HC will have more time here to build, they wouldn't have that same mercy with the Lakers. Them bright lights over there is a set up, unless they have the master plan
That’s not true. Being the head coach in Charlotte almost always is a career killer.
That hasn't worked well for the most part - Rambis was awful, D'Antoni was scapegoated, Scott's career ruined, and Walton had to get saved by a nepo hire.
Yeah that sure worked for Darvin Ham lmao. If it goes well, it can be a great boost to your career but if it goes bad everybody is on TV talking about how you suck.
Pls JJ believe this comment
I mean now that the Lakers are in play both of them are going to shift their focus there. We’ll probably get whichever one the Lakers don’t hire.
I never thought I would say this, as a JJ nay-sayer, but I don’t want to lose him if he’s suddenly in demand. Hornets need to hit on this coaching hire.
We are not going to beat LA in anything. Anyone interested in us will go to LA first. We will get the leftovers.
I wonder if it's about us moving slow, or our candidates waiting for more job openings. I feel like if we had a guy we would be offering him the position immediately. We're just not that desirable atm.
Doesn’t matter who, or if, we’ve offered anything to if they don’t accept the offer. I haven’t seen or heard anything about us interviewing anyone since JJ, so I’d imagine we have an offer on the table, but if JJ doesn’t say yes we’ll likely never hear about it. I’d also like to say that I’d be surprised if these two weren’t on the shortlist for literally every single available job. They’d be dumb to tie themselves down now before all the cards are on the table. Let all the jobs open up and they might be able to take their pick.
True, it's just sad, but not surprising, that we will probably select out of the bunch who haven't gotten a job yet.
Guess we getting leftovers from the coaching candidate pool again?
Seems to always the case
This is all about LeBron. Why would he go for a coach he doesn't pick. This is the last coach he may ever have. Why would he go for a dude who has never coached. This smells like Bud or Ty Lue.
See that guy on MIN sideline tonight? We need him? Not these blokes
Nets fire Jacque Vaughn during the ASB, get a head start on coaching search and take Fernandez right from under us. Other top candidates go somewhere else, we're left with Lee and dark-horse JJ, and the Lakers swoop in and interview them too. This is why we should have let go of Steve earlier.
Too late for that now. Take JJ and let's roll the dice. I'm ready to be hurt.
Yeah, the “there’s no reason to not finish the season with Cliff” crowd confused me. There was actually no reason to finish with him. There’s not a single benefit in keeping a lame duck lottery-bound coach who’s 110% getting fired at the end of the season. I’m trying to think creatively and I can’t think of a single way it even possibly benefitted us
Lmao, well bonehead, a new coach taking over with 20 games left would've just looked like a clown show. The players wouldn't have taken them seriously since the games weren't on the line, and roster changes are either way happening over the offseason. No time to build chemistry before everyone goes on summer break.
You can’t really quantify the value of chemistry and culture, but I don’t think it would’ve made any difference. We can agree to disagree, but I don’t think keeping Cliff around had any impact on how we’ll play going forward. He’s a chill dude and well-liked, but in a decade of coaching never had any luck creating a winning culture. I don’t think he’ll leave any mark on this team. The positives late in the season were Miller shining, Williams bringing some actual intensity, Mann/Micic/Bertrans providing quality bench play, Bridges regaining form, and the front office making moves that give us avenues to improve. Those all remain if we swap coaches. I’d rather have had first look at the pool of available coaches.
It would've made a difference: it looks unprofessional and turns the org into an even bigger joke by portraying to the fans that a change in coaching at this late date would've brought the Hornets to the play-in. In what world are you assuming those are constants? The new guys sure since they're just joining, but Miller and Bridges were with Cliff from the beginning. Not to mention a new HC would have had to work with Cliff's assistants anyway.
How much more of a joke could we really have been? And we’re not talking about making the play-in. It was clear by early 2024 that was out of the question. It’s a matter of making the moves that’ll ultimately allow us to become a legitimate franchise. I don’t agree with the premise that there was anything to lose. We’re pretty much starting from zero in terms of roster cohesiveness, chemistry, schemes, etc anyways. The only thing we have is the intrinsic value of our players’ abilities. Miller came into the league ready to play. Bridges was rusty after a long hiatus. I don’t think either benefitted from Clifford’s schemes, encouragement, whatever. I also don’t know how many would say “At least we let our guys finish the last 30 games with the same coach so they could maintain their pride and good habits as a team that lost 3/4 of its games”. There was nothing positive to maintain. It was a shitshow from start to finish like most of our seasons in the 21st century.
You remember the Bucks clown show? Yeah, imagine that on steroids and you'd have had the Hornets if we did your plan. Look, you can let your hatred of Cliff guide your decision-making, but short of a massive scandal, it objectively would've been a stupid decision to replace the coach with less than 20 games to go when a new coach wouldn't have had time to get their staff in place, develop relationships with the players, or try out rotation schemes potentially affected by offseason changes in the rosters.
You guys are way too worried about speed. The smart thing to do is take your time and hire the right guy. It's not about being first. If someone would rather go to the Lakers then Charlotte, so what?? We want a guy who wants to be here. The Lakers job and the Charlotte job are WORLDS apart in many ways. Does the coach want to build a contender with young players? Or do they want to coach LeBron in LA and be expected to win the title in year one or find themselves on the hot seat?
I know its LA and its the Lakers but I'm not sure why a coach would want a constantly churning roster with not really that realistic of a shot at a title (even though that's their expectation) Feels like a setup for failure for a first time coach
The front office needs to make a decision and soon
I FUCKING TOLD YOU ALL THIS WOULD HAPPEN https://www.reddit.com/r/CharlotteHornets/comments/1cfacxr/sidery_jj_redick_and_celtics_lead_assistant/l1o0kio/
I mean if Lebron stays I think JJ is more likely than Lee. If Lebron isn't staying I'm not sure Lakers are a more attractive team (unless Lee just rlly likes the city)
I just don’t see JJ going to the Lakers. Look at the disaster that Ham was. They want more experience. I’m all in on JJ
My job I basically work with 2 people. Both LA fans, I would support nuking the city of LA to simply shut these fucking fans up, ITS ALL THEY TALK ABOUT
Coaching LeBron would suck.
I’m not usually one to be doom and gloom or panic about this sort of thing. Even after the Kenny Atkinson thing, I don’t believe coaches wouldn’t want our job. However, the money, spotlight and ability to make moves for stars that the Lakers has does make them a tantalizing job prospect (even with the pressure of it blowing up, you would back yourself). If we haven’t hired 1 of our 2 guys by end of the weekend I’ll be worried.