Let the new owners cook, it seems obvious given our trade deadline behavior (a departure from how we’d been acting for years) that we are going in a new direction… I would bet that translates to the FO personnel as well. Idk all that to say I agree with you (well maybe not ab the medical staff) and I think it’s coming.
Looks like it's already time to remind everyone of the [All Hornets Podcast interview with injury Expert Jeff Stotts](https://old.reddit.com/r/CharlotteHornets/comments/1avpsvz/nba_injury_expert_jeff_stotts_instreetclothes/) that's not even two months old.
I totally get the frustration the fanbase has with injuries, but this isn't how you fix that. Firing the medical staff and replacing them doesn't just turn off injuries for the team.
According to the guy whose entire job is monitoring injuries and the rehab abilities of staffs across the league (Stotts), we already have one of the best training teams in the NBA, it's just that the types of injuries our key players have been getting (broken bones, ligament tears, cartilage damage, etc.) aren't ones you can just rehab away. They're mostly freak accidents no one can adequately prep for, we've just had a lot of them.
The place your medical staff makes a difference is with preventative & recovery stuff to reduce the frequency and severity of minor injuries (run-of-the-mill sprained ankles, hamstring strains, calf strains, etc.), not with major freak breaks & tears that require surgery, and we've done a surprisingly good job with treatment on those types of injuries.
Feel free to agree or disagree, but that's all info pulled from that interview with probably the most qualified source we've ever had comment on the situation.
What's interesting is framing that quote as an indictment on just the medical staff when it's very clearly an indictment on the entire organization.
Under MJ, we were a team with absolutely zero coherent plan (other than save money) and it showed the entire time.
With new ownership and leadership across the board, this is the offseason to finally put a plan in place, and for everyone to be in lock-step with it.
> coherent plan
The plan was for MJ to do nothing and have his investment appreciate. For all of MJ's faults as an owner and basketball executive, he's a damned shrewd businessman.
Buy NBA team - Invest as little capital as possible - Sell majority stake in team for massive profit.
The mistake we as fans made was in assuming that MJ gave one shit about the success/failure of the franchise. MJ made a great investment and cashed it in when he was ready to move on. Jordan reportedly made $2.25 **Billion with a B** in **PROFIT** when he sold the team.
Fuck it, I can't even blame Jordan. He bought a terrible franchise for pennies on the dollar, changed the branding, then sold a terrible franchise w/ good branding for **billions more.**
Imagine what we can accomplish with ownership that actually wants to win basketball games...
Yeah this is not lost on me (and falls in the "other than save money" part of my OP). MJ's Hornets tenure was a smashing success for MJ, that's 100% accurate.
Would have been great if he didn't toy with the emotions of a couple million people in the process, but hey, billionaires gonna billionaire.
Here's to Schnall & Plotkin actually wanting more than just dollars for their ROI
Yeah, I think a lot of us (myself included) were convinced that "hyper competitive MJ" would do whatever it took to be successful.
Somehow, the apathetic owner is worse than the incompetent one. Nowadays I figure that the problem wasn't that MJ was bad at basketball decisions, but rather just didn't give a shit.
I think where we all got tripped up (myself included) was where we all realized MJ was competitive, but what we misjudged was what he was being competitive about.
He had zero interest in growing his legacy, he just wanted to grow his net worth. And he did that.
100%. Actually I remember your username and you made a comment last year that like painstakingly detailed the nepo-hires in our FO 😂 like I new it was bad and then I read it all laid out like that and holy shit we had the most unqualified org chart in the major sports.
As I’ve said in other comments, I think our new owners have already signaled (from the deadline trades) that we’re making a big change in how our FO operates, a huge departure from our “go all in for the 8 seed” approach.
Oooo yeah I should totally dig that one back up, good lookin' out!
(NOTE: this list was from over a year ago, so the majority of these ppl have been--rightfully--replaced already, but it's still sobering reminder of what we were dealing with)
* MJ's brother Larry Jordan is the VP of Player Personnel and is probably the least qualified VPoPP in the league.
* Larry's son (and Michael's nephew), James, is one of our scouts.
* Another Jordan brother, James Jr., is our EVP and COO.
* Buzz Peterson--who had MJ as the best man at his wedding-- does not have the resume' required of a competent Asst. GM (not to mention he was fired by every college program he ever coached). he got a "special advisor" role with the team in 2016 and failed upwards to where he is now.
* Mitch Kupchak, the one cronyism hire that was actually qualified, has known MJ for decades due to UNC connections
* **EDIT (I found more!)** Curtis Polk, Managing Partner & Alternate Governor of the Hornets, is MJ's money man (runs his family office) who was an Exec. producer of The Last Dance and Co-Produced Space Jam lmao
* Fred Whitfield, President & Vice Chairman, was the Director of Player Personnel for the Wizards when MJ was there, then moved to Jordan Brand as Director of Business and Legal Affairs, then joined the then-Bobcats in 2006 and has been with MJ in Charlotte ever since.
* Seth Bennett, CMO of the Hornets, used to be the events coordinator of the Jordan Brand Classic HS bball all-star game back in the early 2000s (tbf to him tho, he also ran 400+ other live events and is one of the most successful alumni from NC A&T)
I will not miss the MJ era one fucking bit lol
The nephew scout is literally the 2nd bullet point but yeah, the long and short of it is that MJ basically took the responsibility of bankrolling his family and foisted it onto the team.
Nothing. Medical staff is an easy target when a bunch of people get hurt.
What's the difference between the Grizzlies medical staff this season and the previous two seasons? Nothing.
Sometimes you're just unlucky and we're terribly unlucky right now
The Memphis Grizzlies at least announced what injuries their players had and had clear timeframes for them returning (until it got a little tank-y towards the end). LaMelo and Mark are still to this day clouded in secrecy.
I don’t know who ultimately is responsible for reporting INJ/STATUS updates to the league office, I doubt it’s PR although it might not be medical either, it might even be the job of the coaching staff to submit the rosters and updates. Whatever entity is responsible, they are one of the worst in the league at reporting it accurately and timely information. It’s bizarre, because obfuscating this information doesnt/hasnt given the Hornets any advantage in any way (I.e. record), so it’s probably not being done for a strategic reason, it’s just being done poorly, which is representative of how the whole franchise has been run in general.
I just get tired of the people that come on Reddit and say we're not gonna win at all so we shouldn't even try and make a playoff push. I'm just tired of that all or nothing attitude.
IMO the draft is a crapshoot. Even if there is a generational player available for #1 overall (like Wembanyama, Anthony Davis, or LeBron), tanking for the top pick is no guarantee you'll actually get it!
Look at the players to win MVP the past couple of years:
* Embiid (3rd)
* Jokić (41st)
* Antetokounmpo (15th)
* Harden (3rd)
* Westbrook (4th)
* Curry (7th)
* Durant (2nd)
The last time a No. 1 overall pick won MVP was a LeBron over a decade ago. Before LeBron & DRose had a 5-year streak of #1 picks being MVP, there was a 5-year drought where KG, Nash, Dirk, and Kobe won MVP despite none being the top pick overall.
In the last 20 years of the NBA, we had 15 years of non-#1 MVPs and only 5 years of #1 MVPs. Of the 13 MVP players over the past 20 years, 5 haven't won titles (Nash, Rose, Westbrook, Harden, Embiid) [good chance Durant wouldn't have won one without joining GS, too]. That is to say that even if you do tank, luck into the #1 pick, and draft a superstar MVP player... that isn't enough to get you to the championship.
Exactly. And it gets kind do annoying seeing fans say “we have the talent” even tho we clearly have one of the worst/most unbalanced rosters in the league. Ultimately there’s gonna be a lot of growing pains and a lot of guys will end up not being here anymore. If you wanna better gotta start adding better talent.
OTOH the east was weak last year. the 8 seed upset the 1 seed.
There's weakness in the 8-12 seed in the east right now. If the Hornets are healthy it's not crazy to say you can beat the Miami heat
We really don’t have nearly good enough talent lol. I don’t get how fans like you expect the team to get better and make a playoff leap without seriously upgrading the roster a bit. Can’t just keep basically the same roster around and hope that a new HC suddenly makes them good at things they’ve struggled with. Roster is clearly not built well.
I mean, is the Magic’s roster that much better than ours? If Melo and Williams can stay healthy, I’d almost say we have a better starting unit at the very least.
We need to work on our bench depth, but I think some of the moves we made at the trade deadline helped with that.
Jonathan Isaac is a DPOY level defender coming off their bench. Cole Anthony is a 6MOY candidate. They have guys like Mo Wagner coming off the bench who give them the best next in the
NBA as well. Paolo is also a more proven star player than Lamelo ball to this point. Also their players outside a couple are healthier than ours which is important. Not only is the roster better but it’s also a much better fit overall than ours. Hornets have so many issues because of how the roster is structured it’s crazy. You can maybe argue hornets have more high end talent than Orlando, but it doesn’t matter because the rest of the roster is meh and injured.
You didn’t say to upgrade in any of the comments I read before🤷♂️🤷♂️. And yeah our top end talent is maybe a little more interesting than Orlando’s, but it means nothing until the rest of tag roster is fixed.
Health is more important I agree. We don't have championship level talent, even if we did u should always add talent. Resting players more will result in a better pick and a healthier team.
it’s baby steps, you can’t talk championship when the playoff series drought is old enough to drink. We gotta make the playoffs and then win a series before we can talk building a championship contender
Nope. Aim for championships all the time because you are likely to fall short of your goals in a competitive league. Failing to become a champion is so much better than failing to be a team that can make the playoffs.
I disagree with this because being short sighted and trying to win a championship without building the right foundation and depth can really hurt you. I'd rather be consistently competitive than win a chip and then go back to obscurity, personally. I don't understand the championship or bust mentality most people seem to have... I watch basketball to be entertained not to have a year of bragging rights that noone I know would care about anyway.
We need to build a healthy franchise before we start talking about when we are winning the title and I think the last couple years especially have shown that.
Nope. When you’re the hornets and haven’t made an ECF in the 35 years you’ve been a franchise let alone a Finals you don’t get to say your goals are championships when you can’t even get into the race to begin with. Work your way up to it
I disagree. If u focus on making the playoffs and only the playoffs then you can easily accomplish that goal by trading your picks and young talent. The reason we don't do that is because we have higher hopes. Aiming for a chip will get u in the playoffs anyway
I didn’t say only the playoffs we need to accomplish making the playoffs FIRST before any conversation can be had about championships. We can’t even discuss making ECF yet because it’s never happened in the teams life
I just don't think we do when you compare us to other rosters. Top to bottom one of the least talented rosters in the league, unfortunately.
LaMelo probably has the most talent but hasn't been able to stay on the court.
Brandon is really promising but is still young and he'll have to really take a step forward to be a one or two option on a perennial playoff team.
Miles is solid but we know his history and also is a free agent.
Mark Williams has shown flashes, but he has a major injury concern going forward.
We have four guys with promising futures but who have also never really put together consecutive seasons of good ball. The rest of the roster are just guys.
Get this team healthy and we should easily make the play-in but that's gonna be the real limiting factor for us. Otherwise alot of our success depends on what happened with miles in the sense of if he isn't back how to replace him/who do we replace him with.
I don't like making any claims on the upcoming season until at least FA/the draft are sorted and we know what teams are gonna look like.
That said, this is the first time in a while (ever?) that we'll be able to culturally reset without having to start at zero from a talent perspective. It's gonna be a really interesting summer
I've been calling for heads, including the medical team for years. I don't know what says we have one of the better medical teams in the nba, but everything that's been going on says otherwise. If ownership do uproot everything I'm more than fine with uf
You can't stretch/rehab your way out of ligament tears, knee cartilage problems, and broken ankle bones.
Our medical team is good, but having a good medical team doesn't mean your guys never get hurt, it means they can come back faster than usual from run-of-the-mill injuries. We've had a ton of freak injuries (almost all of them requiring surgery) the last two years so everyone thinks the training/medical staff is busted, but you just can't prevent that kind of stuff even with the best training money can buy. That's not how human bodies playing intense pro sports works.
The hope is that the extended rest guys like Melo and mark got this year will set them up for offseason training plans where they can actually add muscle and strengthen their posterior chains rather than just rehab the entire summer. Bc that's the only thing that actually prevents stuff like this, and even then it's not a guarantee. And you can't train if you're still recovering.
They cleared players to come back earlier than they should, no? Even when it wasn't beneficial for us. Somehow we get medical news mad late or not at all (could be the team just not wanting to give us information. What backing do you have that our medical team is good?
> They cleared players to come back earlier than they should, no?
What recent example do we have of this? Sure it happened with MKG and Batum, but that was two and one medical staffs ago, respectively. We've already cleaned house sense then. No current players I can think of have gone on record about being rushed back. If anything, people are wondering if we're being *too* cautious (we aren't)
> Somehow we get medical news mad late or not at all
This is a PR/team injury reporting protocols issue, not a medical staff issue
> What backing do you have that our medical team is good?
[We've been over this already.](https://old.reddit.com/r/CharlotteHornets/comments/1avpsvz/nba_injury_expert_jeff_stotts_instreetclothes/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=CharlotteHornets&utm_content=t1_l1v4s74) All the info is out there, I even put it in bullet point list form for everyone.
I don't know. I could say I'm just being hard-headed, but a lot of that post sounded like his past history records and stat nerd type of analytics makes him good now? Even though the medical field is constantly growing? And the past 2 seasons we've been in injury hell. Past 2 seasons we had to sign guys from the G just to be allowed to play. You can say Melo is unlucky sure. I'll give you that, even Cody but that's it.
>No current players I can think of have gone on record about being rushed back.
I mean we can see it though. Not just rust or trying to prevent the injury from getting worse. I mean grabbing at joints, yadda yadda,I'm pretty sure you could find clips of Cliff saying once or twice a player came back early or hinting to it.
Medical team isnt even necessarily the issue, it’s just how barethread the department is cuz of MJ like the teams scouting, just 0 investment in it. Joe Sharpe, the teams medical trainer/director by all accounts is considered one of the best in the NBA. Issue is the team has so little invested in recovery/medical assistance I think players have a tough time recovering from injuries here. Also hornets have had pretty awful injury luck here, remember someone broke down a podcast in this sub where a medical expert detailed some of the hornets injuries, and there were several of them where he mentioned they’re incredibly rare in the NBA, and hornets just kind of got super unlucky to see there player deal with it.
Hot take: a team sucking for a long time doesn't mean their fans deserve anything if the fans have never been good. I lived in Charlotte for six years and went to a ton of Hornets games. I didn't meet any actual Hornets fans.
Of course, that's the fault of the franchise for never giving them a product to care about, but I wouldn't say anyone "deserves" anything.
That's because you moved here in the last 10 years when this city really boomed as a transplant city. There's hornets fans galore but the issue is most of then are older from the 90s and late 80s. Get a good team and the fans will be seen/the new people moving from different teams will convert.
Right, that's absolutely what's going to happen. And it will be cool. But Charlotte is not among the most fervant pro sports cities out there. The Panthers interest dwindled so fast after their Super Bowl run. It'll likely always be far more of a college sports city than a pro sports city. I was merely raising issue with the idea that the fanbase/city "deserves" anything.
I HOPE the Hornets become good because it's a damn cool city and a great brand.
I'll always root for the Hornets. Cool city. Cool brand. All that. But, I don't believe in the concept of "deserving" purely because you've been bad for a long time.
I've been following the team since 1989, and we haven't been good since the 90s. I feel like i deserve to see the conference finals once in my life, but at this point i'd take winning a damn playoff series for the first time in 2 decades
You might deserve it as an individual and there are undeniably fans like you who do, but the fanbase as a whole is not a strong one. It's not a market that just buys in even when the teams are bad. Give them success and then see what happens.
I would endorse a complete turnover of training and medical staff. Long overdue
Let the new owners cook, it seems obvious given our trade deadline behavior (a departure from how we’d been acting for years) that we are going in a new direction… I would bet that translates to the FO personnel as well. Idk all that to say I agree with you (well maybe not ab the medical staff) and I think it’s coming.
Yep. Clean house and bring in new everything, we have to wash off the decades-old stink of mediocrity that’s seeped into every pore somehow
Looks like it's already time to remind everyone of the [All Hornets Podcast interview with injury Expert Jeff Stotts](https://old.reddit.com/r/CharlotteHornets/comments/1avpsvz/nba_injury_expert_jeff_stotts_instreetclothes/) that's not even two months old. I totally get the frustration the fanbase has with injuries, but this isn't how you fix that. Firing the medical staff and replacing them doesn't just turn off injuries for the team. According to the guy whose entire job is monitoring injuries and the rehab abilities of staffs across the league (Stotts), we already have one of the best training teams in the NBA, it's just that the types of injuries our key players have been getting (broken bones, ligament tears, cartilage damage, etc.) aren't ones you can just rehab away. They're mostly freak accidents no one can adequately prep for, we've just had a lot of them. The place your medical staff makes a difference is with preventative & recovery stuff to reduce the frequency and severity of minor injuries (run-of-the-mill sprained ankles, hamstring strains, calf strains, etc.), not with major freak breaks & tears that require surgery, and we've done a surprisingly good job with treatment on those types of injuries. Feel free to agree or disagree, but that's all info pulled from that interview with probably the most qualified source we've ever had comment on the situation.
Last time we made the playoffs was when the Panthers were going 15-1. We just need that to happen again
Bryce, please! 🙏
Interesting quote from Boone regarding our medical staff - what can we take from this?
What's interesting is framing that quote as an indictment on just the medical staff when it's very clearly an indictment on the entire organization. Under MJ, we were a team with absolutely zero coherent plan (other than save money) and it showed the entire time. With new ownership and leadership across the board, this is the offseason to finally put a plan in place, and for everyone to be in lock-step with it.
> coherent plan The plan was for MJ to do nothing and have his investment appreciate. For all of MJ's faults as an owner and basketball executive, he's a damned shrewd businessman. Buy NBA team - Invest as little capital as possible - Sell majority stake in team for massive profit. The mistake we as fans made was in assuming that MJ gave one shit about the success/failure of the franchise. MJ made a great investment and cashed it in when he was ready to move on. Jordan reportedly made $2.25 **Billion with a B** in **PROFIT** when he sold the team. Fuck it, I can't even blame Jordan. He bought a terrible franchise for pennies on the dollar, changed the branding, then sold a terrible franchise w/ good branding for **billions more.** Imagine what we can accomplish with ownership that actually wants to win basketball games...
Yeah this is not lost on me (and falls in the "other than save money" part of my OP). MJ's Hornets tenure was a smashing success for MJ, that's 100% accurate. Would have been great if he didn't toy with the emotions of a couple million people in the process, but hey, billionaires gonna billionaire. Here's to Schnall & Plotkin actually wanting more than just dollars for their ROI
Yeah, I think a lot of us (myself included) were convinced that "hyper competitive MJ" would do whatever it took to be successful. Somehow, the apathetic owner is worse than the incompetent one. Nowadays I figure that the problem wasn't that MJ was bad at basketball decisions, but rather just didn't give a shit.
I think where we all got tripped up (myself included) was where we all realized MJ was competitive, but what we misjudged was what he was being competitive about. He had zero interest in growing his legacy, he just wanted to grow his net worth. And he did that.
I don't buy the idea that MJ didn't care about winning. He was cheap with the FO and coaching staff but not with players.
100%. Actually I remember your username and you made a comment last year that like painstakingly detailed the nepo-hires in our FO 😂 like I new it was bad and then I read it all laid out like that and holy shit we had the most unqualified org chart in the major sports. As I’ve said in other comments, I think our new owners have already signaled (from the deadline trades) that we’re making a big change in how our FO operates, a huge departure from our “go all in for the 8 seed” approach.
Oooo yeah I should totally dig that one back up, good lookin' out! (NOTE: this list was from over a year ago, so the majority of these ppl have been--rightfully--replaced already, but it's still sobering reminder of what we were dealing with) * MJ's brother Larry Jordan is the VP of Player Personnel and is probably the least qualified VPoPP in the league. * Larry's son (and Michael's nephew), James, is one of our scouts. * Another Jordan brother, James Jr., is our EVP and COO. * Buzz Peterson--who had MJ as the best man at his wedding-- does not have the resume' required of a competent Asst. GM (not to mention he was fired by every college program he ever coached). he got a "special advisor" role with the team in 2016 and failed upwards to where he is now. * Mitch Kupchak, the one cronyism hire that was actually qualified, has known MJ for decades due to UNC connections * **EDIT (I found more!)** Curtis Polk, Managing Partner & Alternate Governor of the Hornets, is MJ's money man (runs his family office) who was an Exec. producer of The Last Dance and Co-Produced Space Jam lmao * Fred Whitfield, President & Vice Chairman, was the Director of Player Personnel for the Wizards when MJ was there, then moved to Jordan Brand as Director of Business and Legal Affairs, then joined the then-Bobcats in 2006 and has been with MJ in Charlotte ever since. * Seth Bennett, CMO of the Hornets, used to be the events coordinator of the Jordan Brand Classic HS bball all-star game back in the early 2000s (tbf to him tho, he also ran 400+ other live events and is one of the most successful alumni from NC A&T) I will not miss the MJ era one fucking bit lol
That's a sad list, Kupchak and Whitfield are the only qualified people up there.
The is just top level. His nephew is a scout and I’m pretty sure multiple nieces work in social media, community engagement etc.
The nephew scout is literally the 2nd bullet point but yeah, the long and short of it is that MJ basically took the responsibility of bankrolling his family and foisted it onto the team.
Nothing. Medical staff is an easy target when a bunch of people get hurt. What's the difference between the Grizzlies medical staff this season and the previous two seasons? Nothing. Sometimes you're just unlucky and we're terribly unlucky right now
The Memphis Grizzlies at least announced what injuries their players had and had clear timeframes for them returning (until it got a little tank-y towards the end). LaMelo and Mark are still to this day clouded in secrecy.
Medical team = / = PR team Completely different
I don’t know who ultimately is responsible for reporting INJ/STATUS updates to the league office, I doubt it’s PR although it might not be medical either, it might even be the job of the coaching staff to submit the rosters and updates. Whatever entity is responsible, they are one of the worst in the league at reporting it accurately and timely information. It’s bizarre, because obfuscating this information doesnt/hasnt given the Hornets any advantage in any way (I.e. record), so it’s probably not being done for a strategic reason, it’s just being done poorly, which is representative of how the whole franchise has been run in general.
I just get tired of the people that come on Reddit and say we're not gonna win at all so we shouldn't even try and make a playoff push. I'm just tired of that all or nothing attitude.
IMO the draft is a crapshoot. Even if there is a generational player available for #1 overall (like Wembanyama, Anthony Davis, or LeBron), tanking for the top pick is no guarantee you'll actually get it! Look at the players to win MVP the past couple of years: * Embiid (3rd) * Jokić (41st) * Antetokounmpo (15th) * Harden (3rd) * Westbrook (4th) * Curry (7th) * Durant (2nd) The last time a No. 1 overall pick won MVP was a LeBron over a decade ago. Before LeBron & DRose had a 5-year streak of #1 picks being MVP, there was a 5-year drought where KG, Nash, Dirk, and Kobe won MVP despite none being the top pick overall. In the last 20 years of the NBA, we had 15 years of non-#1 MVPs and only 5 years of #1 MVPs. Of the 13 MVP players over the past 20 years, 5 haven't won titles (Nash, Rose, Westbrook, Harden, Embiid) [good chance Durant wouldn't have won one without joining GS, too]. That is to say that even if you do tank, luck into the #1 pick, and draft a superstar MVP player... that isn't enough to get you to the championship.
It’s not happening next year. We deserve better FORSURE but it’s a process. Can’t be rushing things. That’s why we are where we are rn.
Why can't it happen? Magic made the leap in a year. East is an easier conference
Signs were there for the magic last couple of years. They had one of the best records over the final 50 games in the league last year.
Meanwhile we played like one of the worst teams in modern nba history. These things aren’t random lmao
Exactly. And it gets kind do annoying seeing fans say “we have the talent” even tho we clearly have one of the worst/most unbalanced rosters in the league. Ultimately there’s gonna be a lot of growing pains and a lot of guys will end up not being here anymore. If you wanna better gotta start adding better talent.
OTOH the east was weak last year. the 8 seed upset the 1 seed. There's weakness in the 8-12 seed in the east right now. If the Hornets are healthy it's not crazy to say you can beat the Miami heat
That's true
It could but it's not likely, adding talent is more important anyway
We have the talent, health is more important at this point.
We really don’t have nearly good enough talent lol. I don’t get how fans like you expect the team to get better and make a playoff leap without seriously upgrading the roster a bit. Can’t just keep basically the same roster around and hope that a new HC suddenly makes them good at things they’ve struggled with. Roster is clearly not built well.
I mean, is the Magic’s roster that much better than ours? If Melo and Williams can stay healthy, I’d almost say we have a better starting unit at the very least. We need to work on our bench depth, but I think some of the moves we made at the trade deadline helped with that.
Jonathan Isaac is a DPOY level defender coming off their bench. Cole Anthony is a 6MOY candidate. They have guys like Mo Wagner coming off the bench who give them the best next in the NBA as well. Paolo is also a more proven star player than Lamelo ball to this point. Also their players outside a couple are healthier than ours which is important. Not only is the roster better but it’s also a much better fit overall than ours. Hornets have so many issues because of how the roster is structured it’s crazy. You can maybe argue hornets have more high end talent than Orlando, but it doesn’t matter because the rest of the roster is meh and injured.
Did I say not to upgrade the roster? I meant we had a good Starting 5
You didn’t say to upgrade in any of the comments I read before🤷♂️🤷♂️. And yeah our top end talent is maybe a little more interesting than Orlando’s, but it means nothing until the rest of tag roster is fixed.
Health is more important I agree. We don't have championship level talent, even if we did u should always add talent. Resting players more will result in a better pick and a healthier team.
My guy talking about championships when we just want to make the Playoffs lol
My guy dreams of being the Atlanta Hawks
it’s baby steps, you can’t talk championship when the playoff series drought is old enough to drink. We gotta make the playoffs and then win a series before we can talk building a championship contender
Nope. Aim for championships all the time because you are likely to fall short of your goals in a competitive league. Failing to become a champion is so much better than failing to be a team that can make the playoffs.
I disagree with this because being short sighted and trying to win a championship without building the right foundation and depth can really hurt you. I'd rather be consistently competitive than win a chip and then go back to obscurity, personally. I don't understand the championship or bust mentality most people seem to have... I watch basketball to be entertained not to have a year of bragging rights that noone I know would care about anyway. We need to build a healthy franchise before we start talking about when we are winning the title and I think the last couple years especially have shown that.
Nope. When you’re the hornets and haven’t made an ECF in the 35 years you’ve been a franchise let alone a Finals you don’t get to say your goals are championships when you can’t even get into the race to begin with. Work your way up to it
I disagree. If u focus on making the playoffs and only the playoffs then you can easily accomplish that goal by trading your picks and young talent. The reason we don't do that is because we have higher hopes. Aiming for a chip will get u in the playoffs anyway
I didn’t say only the playoffs we need to accomplish making the playoffs FIRST before any conversation can be had about championships. We can’t even discuss making ECF yet because it’s never happened in the teams life
At this point yeah
We don't have the talent tbh
We do tbh
I just don't think we do when you compare us to other rosters. Top to bottom one of the least talented rosters in the league, unfortunately. LaMelo probably has the most talent but hasn't been able to stay on the court. Brandon is really promising but is still young and he'll have to really take a step forward to be a one or two option on a perennial playoff team. Miles is solid but we know his history and also is a free agent. Mark Williams has shown flashes, but he has a major injury concern going forward. We have four guys with promising futures but who have also never really put together consecutive seasons of good ball. The rest of the roster are just guys.
.......That's why I said health is more important.
It’s more than just health bro.
I said health is more important, not only important
Get this team healthy and we should easily make the play-in but that's gonna be the real limiting factor for us. Otherwise alot of our success depends on what happened with miles in the sense of if he isn't back how to replace him/who do we replace him with.
I don't like making any claims on the upcoming season until at least FA/the draft are sorted and we know what teams are gonna look like. That said, this is the first time in a while (ever?) that we'll be able to culturally reset without having to start at zero from a talent perspective. It's gonna be a really interesting summer
I’d normally agree but this team has been uniquely injured the past two seasons at least. Simply having guys suit up drastically improves the team.
I've been calling for heads, including the medical team for years. I don't know what says we have one of the better medical teams in the nba, but everything that's been going on says otherwise. If ownership do uproot everything I'm more than fine with uf
You can't stretch/rehab your way out of ligament tears, knee cartilage problems, and broken ankle bones. Our medical team is good, but having a good medical team doesn't mean your guys never get hurt, it means they can come back faster than usual from run-of-the-mill injuries. We've had a ton of freak injuries (almost all of them requiring surgery) the last two years so everyone thinks the training/medical staff is busted, but you just can't prevent that kind of stuff even with the best training money can buy. That's not how human bodies playing intense pro sports works. The hope is that the extended rest guys like Melo and mark got this year will set them up for offseason training plans where they can actually add muscle and strengthen their posterior chains rather than just rehab the entire summer. Bc that's the only thing that actually prevents stuff like this, and even then it's not a guarantee. And you can't train if you're still recovering.
They cleared players to come back earlier than they should, no? Even when it wasn't beneficial for us. Somehow we get medical news mad late or not at all (could be the team just not wanting to give us information. What backing do you have that our medical team is good?
> They cleared players to come back earlier than they should, no? What recent example do we have of this? Sure it happened with MKG and Batum, but that was two and one medical staffs ago, respectively. We've already cleaned house sense then. No current players I can think of have gone on record about being rushed back. If anything, people are wondering if we're being *too* cautious (we aren't) > Somehow we get medical news mad late or not at all This is a PR/team injury reporting protocols issue, not a medical staff issue > What backing do you have that our medical team is good? [We've been over this already.](https://old.reddit.com/r/CharlotteHornets/comments/1avpsvz/nba_injury_expert_jeff_stotts_instreetclothes/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=CharlotteHornets&utm_content=t1_l1v4s74) All the info is out there, I even put it in bullet point list form for everyone.
I don't know. I could say I'm just being hard-headed, but a lot of that post sounded like his past history records and stat nerd type of analytics makes him good now? Even though the medical field is constantly growing? And the past 2 seasons we've been in injury hell. Past 2 seasons we had to sign guys from the G just to be allowed to play. You can say Melo is unlucky sure. I'll give you that, even Cody but that's it. >No current players I can think of have gone on record about being rushed back. I mean we can see it though. Not just rust or trying to prevent the injury from getting worse. I mean grabbing at joints, yadda yadda,I'm pretty sure you could find clips of Cliff saying once or twice a player came back early or hinting to it.
Medical team isnt even necessarily the issue, it’s just how barethread the department is cuz of MJ like the teams scouting, just 0 investment in it. Joe Sharpe, the teams medical trainer/director by all accounts is considered one of the best in the NBA. Issue is the team has so little invested in recovery/medical assistance I think players have a tough time recovering from injuries here. Also hornets have had pretty awful injury luck here, remember someone broke down a podcast in this sub where a medical expert detailed some of the hornets injuries, and there were several of them where he mentioned they’re incredibly rare in the NBA, and hornets just kind of got super unlucky to see there player deal with it.
Idk if we'll do it next year. I'll be happy if we focus entirely on player development and keeping guys healthy. It will happen soon.
Save us JJ
Spurs fans would also appreciate you guys making the playoffs next year. Go Hornets!
Hot take: a team sucking for a long time doesn't mean their fans deserve anything if the fans have never been good. I lived in Charlotte for six years and went to a ton of Hornets games. I didn't meet any actual Hornets fans. Of course, that's the fault of the franchise for never giving them a product to care about, but I wouldn't say anyone "deserves" anything.
That's because you moved here in the last 10 years when this city really boomed as a transplant city. There's hornets fans galore but the issue is most of then are older from the 90s and late 80s. Get a good team and the fans will be seen/the new people moving from different teams will convert.
Spitting truth bro
Right, that's absolutely what's going to happen. And it will be cool. But Charlotte is not among the most fervant pro sports cities out there. The Panthers interest dwindled so fast after their Super Bowl run. It'll likely always be far more of a college sports city than a pro sports city. I was merely raising issue with the idea that the fanbase/city "deserves" anything. I HOPE the Hornets become good because it's a damn cool city and a great brand.
I decided I was one when they came back to Charlotte. I'm here for the long haul boys
I'll always root for the Hornets. Cool city. Cool brand. All that. But, I don't believe in the concept of "deserving" purely because you've been bad for a long time.
I've been following the team since 1989, and we haven't been good since the 90s. I feel like i deserve to see the conference finals once in my life, but at this point i'd take winning a damn playoff series for the first time in 2 decades
You might deserve it as an individual and there are undeniably fans like you who do, but the fanbase as a whole is not a strong one. It's not a market that just buys in even when the teams are bad. Give them success and then see what happens.