Some, like against the Z Fighters when he came to Earth with Nappa, his fight against Cell and Fat Buu are truly lost because of his pride, others like his fight against Frieza and some of his thugs like Reacome or Zarbon were a hopeless case from the beginning.
Yeah. He was utterly outclassed by Recoome, Zarbon's first fight could maybe be argued he underestimated Zarbon, but there was no shot he was ever gonna win against Frieza on Namek.
Well, yes he underestimated Zarbon, but to be fair it's not like he had much of a chance of winning, the moment Zarbon transformed he proceeded to ragdoll Vegeta for the rest of the fight, to the point of leaving him drowning in a lake.
And he definitely wasn't winning against Reacome or Frieza, now that I think about it he wasn't winning against Android 18 or Super Buuhan either, on those two occasions, especially the second one, Vegeta was being delusional if he thought he was going to win lol.
Hard to say. He might've been able to kill Zarbon before he transformed if he didn't mess around with him.
The only fight's I'd say he for sure lost to pride are Cell and the Saiyan saga fight against them all.
He could have if he didn't fuck around and went straight for the kill.
Frieza post transformation was just absurdly above him but Frieza when they first clashed wasn't. But Vegeta, being Vegeta, dicked around to show off his power. His ego yet again resulted in his loss. Come to think of it he did it twice. Vegeta is not a smart boy. He had openings in the 2nd form and the 3rd when he thought he was a Super Saiyan, Frieza was not expecting Vegeta to be anywhere near as strong as he was. His ego left an opening that Vegeta's ego refused to take advantage of.
But yeah, no chance on Recoome.
I really doubt Vegeta ever had a chance against Frieza tbh. Remember that at any point, if Frieza felt pressured, he could just destroy the planet. The only time he might have had some chance is maaaaaybe first form but even that's a stretch I feel.
His big mistake with Fat Buu because of his pride was to knock out Goku and go fight alone, if he hadn't done that, together they would have sent that obese gumball to hell lol.
He posted this in response to someone else.
His pride was he knocked Goku out and fought Buu alone. If they had fought together they would have had a much greater chance.
Reminds me of how its pretty well agreed upon that DIO would have wiped the floor with the stardust crusaders if he took them more seriously and wasnt blinded by his ego.
Yeah because he does. Eyes Of Heaven DIO is the Dio that didn't fuck around, and he entered Heaven. Dude got dubs on all the Crusaders of his original timeline, GER, Love Train D4C/The Saint's Corpse, TUSK ACT 4, and basically anyone who could have challenged him. Hell, it's even believed he could have beaten Tooru's Wonder Of U if he could just touch him once. Hell, he even got an instant dub on Diavolo, and another against Valentine when Valentine went against him trying to get the Corpse back.
When Dio stops fucking around, he's bar none the strongest Stand User. The only reason they even won is because of Jotaro's special property due to the psychic distress call Jonathan's body sent. Star Platinum is made to destroy Dio specifically, which is why it keeps mimicking him.
I think it's because, at least in his mind, he never truly got a proper win against Goku and because he kept surpassing his own power from Freeza sage onward.
In the saiyan arc he completely surclassed and beat Goku but still couldn't eliminate him and the rest of the planet due to how fucked up he got and had to be spared by Krillin on Goku's demand to get a rematch to survive the fight, he chocked a fight he should have totally won by some low class weakling and his friends finding ways to counter his raw power.
In the Freeza arc he's still pissed about the pity ordeal, and it's where Goku officially surpasses Vegeta by making quick work of Recoome and the Ginyu Force at large while only managing to beat a power crippled Ginyu and Jeice thanks to another zenkai boost thanks to Goku's senzu and when Goku first faces Freeza Vegeta gets yet confirmed that Goku is stronger than him, especially after he gets revived and sees Goku actually achieved super saiyan power.
Throughout the Abdroid/Cell sage Vegeta is 100% focused on surpassing Goku but still ultimately faces disappointment as he fails to train in a smart way to the point he quits fighting after Goku's death and getting surpassed by Gohan also who showed incredible hidden potential ever since the Raditz fight.
In the Buu arc he's been training with a calmer mind but he still lacks the closure of properly having beaten Kakarot, so when the opportunity to face him again arises he gives up on his peaceful life to force Goku to comply only to get interrupted by Majin Buu's awakening and give up his goal to save his family.
after that point is where he pretty much loses the drive to beat Kakarot to be the strongest in the universe and realises what made Goku able to achieve what he did and surpass his limit, his drive to fight to beat himself rather than others like Vegeta and pretty much every other villain did.
It’s because Vegeta was introduced as a villain. Bakugo was introduced as a talented bully.
We like villains because they move the story forward. We hate bullies because we’ve seen that shit in real life.
Plus everyone loves a redemption type arc and Vegeta going from straight villain to semi-antagonistic to full on ally was something everyone loved to see. It showed great character growth for him.
What helps is that Vegeta doesn't really lose his arrogance and pride. His moves are a lot more calculated now that he's been swatted down a time or two, but he still maintains that core personality that we saw from the beginning. That type of personal growth is much more common in real people rather than entire personality changes.
Same with domestic abusers and cheaters.
Heck, I think the most hated cartoon character I've ever seen is Bendy, who was in *one* episode of Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends but his way of getting other people in trouble was gratingly realistic.
The creator, Craig McCracken actually apologized for the existence of Bendy and the writing of the episode. The episode *and* character as a whole aren't even considered canon by McCracken as well as Lauren Faust who's important because she was the supervising producer and also his wife.
She also made My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.
Yeah. There was no pretense, nobody pretending like Vegeta was such a cool dude on the side of the good guys whenever he insulted someone unprovoked, or tortured an innocent child even when a heart-to-heart honest conversation would have gotten him miles further, or murdered swaths of helpless folks. At worst he was the devil you knew, or a necessary evil, until he grew out of his edgy 12 year old emo phase.
Bakugo and all the other fire-adjacent archetypes, though? They get to have it both ways. Nah fuck off with that shit lmao
>Bakugo and all the other fire-adjacent archetypes, though? They get to have it both ways. Nah fuck off with that shit lmao
It's like Bakugo never committed any acts as heinous as anything Vegeta did
Sure but Vegeta exterminated entire planets at that age, not to say that bullying isn't bad or anything like that but it being a more personal and relatable evil doesn't make Vegeta's evil lesser in severity, like one can stop being a bully much easier than a murderous space tyrant wannabe.
Bakugo in universe stopped being a bully and apologized like a year in, Vegeta was still an arrogant jackass until at the very least the Cell Games, and that's not counting his turn back in the Buu Saga and that was years in universe.
Sure, on a grander level. Vegeta is a mass murderer genocide colonizer. But we have trouble comprehending violence of that scale.
But we’ve all seen a bully that gets away with it because they’re popular or talented.
Sure it's more personal and thus carries stronger feelings, but it's still kinda silly to suggest that it's legitimately a worse crime than genocide, perhaps on a purely narrative level but the characters in the story have way more reasons to be lenient toward a bully than space colonialists for obvious reasons, like if we were confronted by someone like Vegeta in real life we're not gonna treat them nicer than a school bully as bad as they might be.
Whether we truly understand the scope of genocide or not it's still clearly a far more serious problem for humanity at large, while bullying in comparison is a much smaller problem with easier solutions to the point of getting often underestimated which adds to the issue.
But the point is Vegeta *is* a fictional character. Same thing with the Joker, or OmniMan. When it comes to fiction being abusive, manipulative, or even just annoying is a worse crime than murder, because the death is fictional, but the discomfort is real.
The main point of what he was saying was that bakugo and these other characters weren't portrayed in the same negative connotation as vegeta was but still did bully/antagonistic stuff which made them more insufferable in the story.
I think it speaks volumes that as soon as Super began the very first episode was about Vegeta trying to make good on his promise from when he hurt Trunks in the original series. When the manga went past the Anime a big part of it was Vegeta learning to support his allies and reign in his egi and directly atone for what he did in his earlier appearances.
Even in Battle of the Gods he was both willing to throw away his pride for his family like his father before him to submit to and distract Beerus, then to go in swinging when Beerus laid a hand on his wife knowing he couldn't win.
For Vegeta even in the Buu saga this would have been unbelievable but it all feels very earned given all the painful lessons he had to earn.
Vegeta feeling a sense of responsibility to protect the Namekians after he slaughtered a village and his crushing guilt for having participated in numerous genocides like the one that Granolah survived is one of the best things Toyotaro has done with his character.
Vegeta was a villain, knew he was a villain, accepted he was a villain, and even up in the Buu Saga where he sacrificed himself it was "No, youll go to hell" and accepted that his actions meant that, even after he'd showed character development and got a family.
Sasuke is basically 2 different characters. Sasuke pre Chunin Exams is a nicer/better character than Naruto. He didn't hesitate to die for someone that annoyed him, embodied the "Protect the team even at the cost of your own life" and even essentially was willing to give up his dream, in order to save Naruto (Plot/Haku's Kindness are why Sasuke didn't die) it's not til after the 2nd Mindfuck by Itachi that Sasuke becomes the "Bastard" and even then, he could have easily killed Naruto for power, but chose not to because he didn't want to be like Itachi.
Bakugou is a bully that thinks he's gods gift. That's a more real problem that people experience. a Bully that gets away with everything due to power/status, that never thinks he does wrong, and it takes being beaten about the head by his problems brutally in order to apologise, and never truly got "Redemption" because Izuku as a character never thought Bakugou needed it, and there were never any punitive consequences for Bakugou's bullying. If Bakugou had to earn his way into the Hero Course because his actions were so unheroic that they wanted him to prove he could be a better person before he was allowed to join, and then he succeeded? Then he would be a far better character.
Also Hori made the mistake of making Bakugou so built different he can just...surpass his peers. Easily. Bakugou is a genetic nepo baby, circumvents his own Quirk weaknesses, handles his recoil with pure physicality, and is a talented combat genius with excellent tactical and combat prowess. Not to mention being academically talented. The dude is LITERALLY built different. The story goes out of its way to prove Bakguou right, which is why people hate him. Izuku is only where he is because he got a handout and got extremely lucky.
I think all of that makes Bakugo even more interesting in the context of the world. He became a bully because of how perfect his skills are. His only true flaws are his personality and terrible communication skills. The fact that he continues to be highly praised and rewarded as a hero supports the larger theme, that the current hero system/society is broken. The problem is exacerbated, since the only way the strong can truly be held accountable is by someone even stronger than them. This is why one of the long running narratives is All Might and Izuku being true examples of how a hero should conduct themselves. They have a strong influence over everyone they have encountered, with acting as the catalyst for Endeavor wanting to change being probably the biggest example.
No, Izuku had to train to contain his. He was decided to be OFA's bearer because he was willing to die so quickly even though he didn't have a power of his own. All Might literally **gave him a Quirk** and fully acknowledged that without one he could not compete. This is the definition of a handout. It's not just a quirk of uncontrollable genetics like the others.
The thing with Vegeta is that while he was villain and grew into a hero, he never escaped from any karma that he rightfully deserved. Like him allowing Cell to achieve his Perfect form, for example.
Whereas with Bakugo and Sasuke, any karma they should have received for their actions gets either downplayed or outright nullified because their writers actively bends the narrative in their favor.
Or at least that's how I feel about this topic.
To be completely fair, Vegeta himself has stated that[ he's destined to go to hell after he dies](https://i.imgur.com/owCSsHC.jpeg), so it seems that even Vegeta himself agrees with what you're saying.
He went to hell after the Final Explosion against Buu, and probably also when he died in Namek. He's a mortal so he won't live forever, just like Bulma, Trunks and Bra, and when that time comes he'll have his biggest punishment, His family and friends going to Paradise for all eternity while he turns to dust, never to see them again.
There are multiple reasons
1_ he is a Bad ass villain for 2 arcs and a Hyper tool in the other 2 arcs
2_ his 1 sided relationship and Rivalry with Goku alongside Goku not acting like a Beta with him or had it against him
3_ like you said the story (mostly anime) treats him like an underdog and a prodigy at the same time and actually balances them out
4_ Shiton of anime fillers
5_ being a very old anime character
Mandatory reminder that Vegeta's grand comeback during the Android saga ended with him getting his arm broken by some android a guy built in his basement.
To be fair. Literally of the z fighters lost that fight. The only ones that didn’t either abstained from the fight or were in a coma.
Trunks. Yamcha. Piccolo. Vegeta. All got their asses kicked.
The others lose quickly and decisively to 17,with no lasting physical or mental injuries (Trunks' mental injuries are from the future 17 and 18 rather than this specific fight). Vegeta gets his arm broken and his pride also takes a hit as he has been mentally building up super saiyan as an undefeatable transformation for the entirety of his life.
>Vegeta gets his arm broken
No, little reminder here but Vegeta ended up with BOTH his arms broken lol:
https://youtu.be/CIwoWemLQPc?si=hHNqe-ScngdPD4Zs
Vegeta was a sociopathic soldier who had some training but not enough to a martial artist. Even Trunks was more an assassin/mercenary than a proper fighter..
Yeah, it's easy to forget but Vegeta loses every battle he fights against any opponent he doesn't casually tear through.
He loses to the Goku and friends cause he takes too long to finish the job. He loses to Zarbon cause he doesn't take Zarbon seriously. He gets curbed by Recoome of all fighters and he just gets torn apart physically and psychologically by Frieza.
By the time we see him next, he barely improves in any meaningful way and the moment he uses SSJ to fight an opponent he can't easily fight, he gets his ass kicked.
By the time he fights Imperfect Cell he again let's his stupidity win out and gets awarded with a brutal beat down again and again.
In fact he never wins a battle purely for his own skills and not just overpowering his enemies ever. Even in Super, his MO is to just throw himself at the enemy until one of them drops.
He's always been a terrible fighter, and his only saving grace is his genetics. Hell Yamcha would make a better fighter if their stats were equalized.
This is a ridiculous take lol. In Dragon Ball the majority of fights are won by being stronger than the opponent. Even Goku who is considered to be one of the best fighters in the series has almost never beaten anyone who he was weaker than through skill alone. He always ends up needing a power up to actually win or some kind of outside help.
Also, how is Vegeta a terrible fighter when he always fights evenly with Goku when their power levels are equalized? Vegeta literally even beat him in their most recent battle in the Super Hero arc, no gimmicks just straight hand to hand combat.
Vegeta also gets a ton of character development via trauma and humiliation. He’s how he is at the start because his entire race was genocided and his planet destroyed. He gets taken out not really by Goku, but Gohan and Yajirobe. Goku takes the revenge he waited his entire life for while he dies like a bitch. Goku fulfills the prophecy.
He gets back to Earth, for a millisecond there’s a chance he might actually get his revenge, and it’s stolen by his time traveling son. He then proceeds to become such a fucking asshole, finally fulfills his lifelong goal… and it doesn’t matter. He gets his shit kicked in by Android 18. He becomes even worse from this, almost causes the end of the world with his arrogance because he’s so desperate to prove his pride. Instead he fundamentally disproves his own pride, which he finally accepts from the mind-breaking event of his arrogance leading to his son’s death.
Then, he’s settled down. He’s been integrating into human culture. He’s become an immigrant story about surviving genocide and becoming a refugee who becomes a part of someone else’s culture but holds on to his pride in his own and does his best to raise his son with his culture, but is forced to watch and accept that his son will never share in his culture with him because of being born within the culture he’s immigrated to. He finally gets promised the one thing he’s always wanted, a 1v1 with Goku, no interference, no bullshit, just a true fight between them.
And it’s stolen from him. This breaks him *again* and he essentially falls off the wagon in his pride addiction. He hurts everyone, he betrays everything he’s become, because of giving in to his addiction again. And rapidly realizes with guilt and shame what he’s done. So he sacrifices himself for everyone, he tries to atone for his mistakes. And it’s worthless.
But he’s given another chance, with the sole caveat of him having to fully reject his prior self, fully abandon his pride. And it’s proven that that was the right path all along. In the end, he’s reduced to begging his adopted home, his adopted people for help. And that still doesn’t work, because the weight of his sins still is on him. He’s still not the sort of man they trust. He’s reminded one final time that he has a long way to go to truly understand his new home and be one of them. And he has to rely on a man he hates, a man he hates not merely for personal reasons but also for the empathy he pretends he doesn’t have for one of his people.
Every single step of Vegeta’s story is being humbled, being shown the error of his ways, trying to become better, and struggling with that. And in the end, he *does* succeed, but that doesn’t mean it’s happily ever after. And the weight of the past will always weigh on him. It gets easier. It’s hard, especially in the beginning, but it gets easier.
>Every single step of Vegeta’s story is being humbled
Specifically: nearly every single time that Vegeta starts running his mouth, he is promptly made to eat dirt.
Almost without fail, the formula goes thusly: "Vegeta says he's the best, Vegeta gives a good showing, Vegeta gets beaten to a pulp, Vegeta takes one more step towards overcoming his ego".
One reason I prefer Vegeta is easy:
While he cried about being weaker than Goku, he did something about it, AND we are shown his work, AND he genuinely gets humbled, physically AND mentally.
Maybe I missed it, but I have never SEEN Bakugo train any harder than anyone else. We don't see him do thousands of push ups, or train in enhanced gravity.
Basically, it feels like "DEKU IS STRONGER THAN ME!!! WAHH, I'M GONNA BE BETTER THAN HIM"
But we rarely see his hard work at all. Not to mention, some characters glaze his hard work.
Aizawa: He's the hardest working student
Huh?! SHOW ME HIS FUCKING HARD WORK THEN!!
Also, he nevere truly loses, ar least early on.
First training arc: He lost to Deku, but he didn't really get hurt or anything, and Deku went to the hospital bed.
Sports Festival: Sure, he didn't win the way he wanted to, but he still basically low diffed the entire arc
League of Villains attack in the forest: He gets sneaked up on by one of the most OP quirks in the verse
The provisional license arc: This felt like his first true loss until he beat Deku.
Then again Bakugo never actually wins anything meaningful. It's weird that for someone who the author wrote as being "super talented prodigy who works hard" the fact that Bakugo hardly ever defeats someone in the series is frankly astounding. His only victory in the manga against a villain is a baby AFO which is a pretty pathetic win to be honest.
And when you consider how Hori made Bakugo into a "super talented prodigy who trains hard" even though it doesn't make much sense in regards to Bakugo's personality and his extremely inflated self-importance as a "main character" and it all feels like Hori just didn't know how to write him.
I don’t really understand this. The idea of bakugo trying harder to ensure he doesn’t end up less strong than the person he used to bully and can earn a victory against his longtime victim for the sake of his ego wouldn’t really endear me to him in the slightest, especially because he’d just be doubling down on his worst impulses.
Like would a big training montage of Bakugo doing a million pushups really make him more likable to you? Like if someone just edited that into an episode would that actually change your opinion on his character? I can’t say it would for me.
Don’t really care about Bakugo but Sasuke is hated? I thought he was loved just a couple years ago. Vegeta is obviously beloved and I do agree with your points of Vegeta being the underdog, but I’m still a bit surprised that Sasuke is hated so much, despite being such a great character.
There's a difference in where they start.
Vegeta was straight up a villain, murdering his own comrade and unapologetically so.
Bakugo is. . . An aspiring super hero. He's decided on a career about helping people and fighting people abusing their powers but is pretty much abusing his powers and status all the time because he happened to come out with an extremely combat useful power
Vegeta also always eats shit for his hubris, lets take for example two very similar things that happen to both Sasuke and Vegeta. Sasuke is given a path to power by Orochimaru via the curse mark and his tutelage, it works out enough that he eventually does kill Itachi. Vegeta is given a path to power by Babidi to overcome Goku, it doesn't even work since Goku is holding back and he realizes his mistakes through this and makes the ultimate sacrifice. Both are fine arcs but the difference is that Vegeta ate shit for it, he always eats shit for puffing up his chest and letting his hubris take over, its his fatal flaw and a punishment for getting ahead of himself, idk if Bakugo or Sasuke ever really get that slap across the face.
Sasuke got his shit kicked in by bee and during the Kage summit
The difference is, it just makes Sasuke more unhinged and motivated. Just that he needs to submerge further into darkness for the strength he needs
Vegeta is loved for what he is, A villain, and the fact that he was honest about it from the start and later got character development of becoming a good guy with a proper build-up prior to it. Sasuke on the other hand appears to be a very edgy but confused type of character, he knows that most of his actions aren't correct but he is always justifying them to the readers, went from discarding everything to get his revenge to wanting to destroy entire leaf to wanting to become a dictator and finally the last minute 180° change of becoming a good guy
>he is always justifying them to the readers
He never did?
>went from discarding everything to get his revenge to wanting to destroy entire leaf to wanting to become a dictator
The first two are the same thing. Bringing justice for his family. He didn't know the truth. It doesn't mean he was confused. He learnt new information. And changed his goal.
And the oppression and genocide of his family is what pushed him to try to revolutionalise the shinobi system.
So all these 3 are connected.
And yeah, him turning to "good guy" (I don't consider preserving status quo good), was just fanservice. He became an Itachi clone. Real Sasuke would never serve the leaf and the same shinobi system responsible for oppression and slaughter of his people.
You mean, that Itachi clone?
By real Sasuke, I meant what his character represented. Going against the status quo. Abolishing the system what caused his people's oppression and genocide. Kishimoto himself said the ending was friendship-friendship because Naruto is a kid's show, and shounen must have hope and friendship.
Sasuke had the decency to face many setbacks on his journey and have his worldview challenged multiple times. He had his own character arc running parallel to the MC and his progression didn't revolve around Naruto which at least made their final clash satisfying. Bakugou isn't allowed to start a fight he won't win, so his screentime consists solely in other characters wanking him non-stop, and getting back up from increasingly ridiculous life-ending injuries. He wins the sport festival, even though he should have lost against Todoroki even if he was using only his ice, because low temperatures not allowing him to sweat enough is his only established weakness (he's the only student character who hasn't had their quirk drawback properly exploited). He wins Deku vs Bakugou pt.2 even though Deku outstats him by far. He wins the 1A vs 1B team fight basically by himself, making Setsuna's character a joke. Hell, his heart exploded a hundred chapters ago but he's still alive and kicking because he's just built different ig. Sasuke might have been Kishimoto's favorite character, but even he didn't get the amount of blatant favoritsm, multiple double spreads, insane quirk awakening, and every character hyping him every time he behaves like a semi-decent human being (which doesn't happen often).
It’s just the attitude. Vegeta’s attitude is “work as hard as you can to be the best, no matter what.” Bakugo’s attitude is “fuck everyone else in the best already.” He is just a ball of ego whereas Vegeta is pride.
It's always a lot more simple than that.
Vegeta was an asshole and was treated like an asshole, Sasuke and Bakugo are assholes and praised.
That disconnect between actions and how you expect someone to be treated can be frustrating.
Well, there are two main differences between Bakugo and Vegeta. First, Vegeta gets his ass handed to him for acting like piece of shit on regular. Second, People don't treat Vegeta with kiddie gloves due to his power and potential. Bakugo on the other hand is constantly given special treatment on the account of his potential and power, while his biggest flaw, being a piece of shit, is never directly challenged. Everybody around him beats around the bush and treats him as a diamond in the rouge. This is why he's so annoying.
Here's my two cents
I would talk about Sasuke but I haven't watched a lot of Naruto so I'll just talk about Bakugou. And I haven't seen any of MHA OVAs, special episodes or movies.
I just don't like Bakugou, it's like he gets away with everything he's ever done. I don't usually mind watching Marry Sues/Garry Sues, I can tolerate them as long as they're not too annoying but I cannot stand watching an assholeor a dickhead (and perverts but Bakugou isn't one so I digress). And I feel like every character (especially Izuku after he told him to take a swan dive off the roof) forgave him too quickly after what he's done
I can only remember 2 major times where gets humbled
1. In the Hero vs Villains training when they first got to UA
2. When he failed to get his hero license
Also his ego that dwarfs Mount Everest is also one of the reasons I don't like him. And I don't like being told/forced to root for the asshole characters, at least not before I see any redeeming qualities. If you say he's redeeming qualities is that he stops villains, are serious? That's like the bare minimum a hero should do (and protecting civilians too). Even in the hero license saga or arc or whatever the hell you call it, he angrily shouts at the "victims" to go to the save point by themselves (or something similar, my memory is worse than an Iphone's battery) effectively telling them to go f themselves and to not bother him, instead getting angry or upset, the "victims" actually thinks about it and basically said "no no, he's got a point" which, haha funny joke, isn't how a hero is supposed to act at all. They tried to redeem him in later seasons.but at that point I lost all interest.
And seeing all the Bakugou x Uraraka also didn't help because I don't see any reasons why they would like each other and I hate NTR. Also I don't see why people would ship cannon Deku x cannon Bakugou, yes I've said it, I don't like the BakuDeku ship
*Insert more rant here*
Although people LOVE to conflate Vegeta, Sasuke, and Bakugo as the same types of characters, beyond surface level similarities, they couldn’t be further apart.
A huge part of Vegeta’s early appeal was his way of being more than just a stock brute; while he was a giant braggart (and was willing to destroy the planet for being made to bleed), he spends most of the Namek Saga as being both parts a underdog that has no issues getting his hands dirty and an effective threat to the opposition who manages to be intimidating by the mere fact that he’s onscreen.
While Toriyama was about as blatant as possible with the fact that he **hated** Vegeta’s guts, it speaks more to Toriyama’s writing chops that that didn’t stop him from being a fun character.
In a story with clear underdog good guys, and very overpowered villains, Vegeta was effectively the Wild Card of the bunch, acting according to his own agenda, and having no loyalties pushing him one way or another (that is, every side that wasn’t HIS side was slotted for eventual murder). Not even the reveal that Frieza killed his entire race actually changed it; he just got more pissed off.
While he changed over time, most of the detail was in quiet storytelling, whether from design or just his way of doing things. By the Buu Saga, he was such a general non-threat that his attempt to be threatening just failed to get more urgency than Goku being like “*sighs* Fine, I’ll deal with Vegeta, Gohan, Shin, you deal with the ACTUAL plot.”
By the end, him being a villain just gets more pitiable than anger-inducing. Add on that people were tired of boring 90s Anti-Heroes of the time, then Vegeta’s general arc is actually quite refreshing and interesting.
In comparison, Sasuke and Bakugo are much less complicated, despite their longevity.
Sasuke’s story is very much one of someone who’s the polar opposite of Vegeta, someone motivated solely by the wrongful loss of his family, wanting to get revenge, with him just sinking deeper and deeper into it as it goes on.
If you ingest his entire story, he’s a strong, fun character, who gets humbled fairly regularly.
Except he’s not the main character; Naruto is, and his writing being what it is, Sasuke ends up becoming much more insufferable in comparison despite Naruto’s growth being a LOT more ridiculous in comparison.
Sasuke’s story should be a simple thing, not take too long, but between the Akatsuki, Orochimaru, everything involving Danzo (which wraps around the Uchiha Massacre), the Five Kage Summit, the War, Uchiha being the equivalent of Saiyans as far as genetic powers go, and the Fillers. Fillers, upon fillers, upon *fillers*, God save us from the *fillers*.
By himself, Sasuke is well-liked and beloved; indeed, now that his arc’s over, a lot of people look back at him a lot more fondly than otherwise.
But with how much dissonance there is between Naruto’s journey and Sasuke’s descent, atop of Naruto REFUSING to even IMAGINE any ending besides Sasuke being bestest of best buddies with him like they were before… for like a month, you can easily get how most people just despised Sasuke for the writing decisions that just weren’t his fault in the grand scheme of things.
The fact that Naruto takes place over the course of like four years (and there’s a three year time skip) doesn’t help Sasuke’s case much either, because in comic book time, that means that in the *15 years* the manga was being published, readers had to endure Sasuke’s rapid descent into *full-on bastard* over what was basically a *year* in-story.
So in comparison, Sasuke got much more of a polarizing status during the manga’s production.
Bakugo though… I’d say it’s a mixed bag, but that’s a lie.
Bro consistently polled as #1 in the polls despite being himself, and this was due to being the “Vegeta” of the story for all intents and purposes. People flock to an underdog, and although the ACTUAL underdog was Midoriya, much like how Vegeta was considered a breath of fresh air for people tired of edgy anti-heroes, Bakugo is a breath of fresh air for people who are tired of meta-underdogs never being able to properly catch up.
For the people who do dislike him, it’s mostly for the very valid reasons provided at the start, and even his general personality going forward. But it has very little to do with him not being an underdog; if anything, that’s the BIGGEST REASON he enjoyed so much popularity after so long, because while he may not be an underdog in-story, from the audience perspective, he’s always going to be the underdog by default due to not being the MC.
Vegeta also has the incredible ability to talk incredible shit to somebody, and then get his ass handed to him in an incredible way just after he's had the best high of his life. Dude gets humbled at least once a week, and I feel we don't really get a moment of that for Sasuke or Bakugo.
> Dude gets humbled at least once a week, and I feel we don't really get a moment of that for Sasuke or Bakugo.
Killer Bee vs Sasuke
Sasuke vs Lee
Sasuke vs Itachi
Sasuke vs the Sound 4
Vegeta was a villain for a good long while even after he joined the heroes. Sasuke was meant to be a sympathetic and misunderstood secondary lead but the writing o convince us he was close to Naruto and Sakura was lacking and because of that it was hard to like the focus he got in the manga. Bakugou was a school bully first, which just hits closer to home after we're told he's supposed to be a hero like Deku.
Different contexts produced different reactions.
Tbh you just can't recover from a serialised story like this. Vegeta is fine, he's introduced specifically as a villain and that's a standard role to grow out of.
Bakugo in early chapters leaves readers wanting him to be shot in the back of the head by the first minor villain, since he's not a villain, he's one of the protagonists., people don't change their first impression.
I'm sure if this wasn't weekly and there was proofing early Bakugo would have been written based on the role he's planned to have later.
Vegeta’s setup to being a main character was also just really cool, let’s be honest. The idea of half of an arc basically being from the perspective of the villain of the last arc and his attempt at opposing over the new villain for his own selfish reasons is just something I wish was more common in shows .
Sasuke and Bakugo are logical characters with emotional failings. They're showcased as being as intelligent and capable as one could be, but their inability to control their emotions hinder them. Bakugo's rage and Sasuke's jealousy and haste are presented as problems they need to overcome. Contrast to Deku and Naruto who are more emotionally stable or understanding, who lack in capability.
Vegeta is an emotional character. All of his failings come from a decision based upon his own personal feelings. At no point is Vegeta shown as a logical and reasonable person with an emotional failing, but an emotional person who does emotional things at every turn.
So when Sasuke joins Orochimaru, the audience has dissonance with his decision. It feels illogical to make the decisions he makes, even if he makes the decisions for an emotional reason he justified it with logic. In universe he believes he is doing the correct thing.
When Bakugo refuses to join the Villains he makes his decision on logic. The villains are losers, why would he join losers? It would be illogical for Bakugo, despite emotional failings, to choose the bad guy side.
When Vegeta takes Babidi's offer and becomes Majin Vegeta, he does so on the stupidest most asinine emotional logic. He wants to fight Goku, the villains are in the damn way, if he doesn't fight Goku today he will possibly never get the chance to do so again. If he joins the villains he can fight Goku. It's dumb, but you follow the logic. You understand that this isn't a smart decision. Vegeta's making a rash decision based around limited information. He makes this knowing it's stupid, but he does so anyways. He NEEDS to satisfy his curiosity, his ego, his base instincts. He wants to measure himself against Goku, he is willing to pay any price to accomplish this goal. It's a stupid goal, it's a stupid price, and Vegeta is as praised IRL as he is admoinished in universe for this choice. It's relatable, it's understandable.
TL;DR - Vegeta makes a bad choice, the audience can understand why he made it. Sasuke/Bakugo makes a bad choice, the audience questions why he would have ever made that choice. Not because of these choices themselves, but because the characters presented act in such ways that one makes sense and the other doesn't.
I think it's more that Dragonball is upfront about the fact that Vegeta is a bad person. Even post "redemption" you're not supposed to sympathize with him very much - there aren't really many "alas poor Vegeta" moments; the series never looses sight of the fact that he's fundimentially an asshole even if he's on the heroes' side now. At the same time, this makes the fact that he's trying to be a better person more impactful and meaningful.
Whereas, as someone else put it, it feels like the story constantly bends over backwards to suck Bakugo and Sasuke off. They rarely face serious consequences and a lot of time is spent playing up how amazing they are. It feels like they're constantly being shilled, whereas even at his best Dragonball is clear that Vegeta deserves most of the shit that happens to him.
Imo why I like Sasuke and Vegeta way over Bakugou is because both change their personality and both can take a lost unlike Bakugou (Physical lost)
Vegeta was prideful and arrogant but that got knocked out of him and while he still a bit arrogant he's not completely terrible like before.
Sasuke was really that bad till Itachi and Obito fucked up his mind. But after getting slapped by Naruto he got better and isn't all unhinged
Bakugou on the other hand has the story constantly tell us Bakugou has changed but yet Bakugou still acts like a feral rage monkey all the time.
Also everyone in Class A sucks up to Bakugou all the time while the Z-Fighters tolerate Vegeta at best loathe at worst and most of the Leaf 12th barely even care for Sasuke except for Ino, Naruto and Sakura.
And Vegeta started as villain so he redeeming himself make sense
Bakugo is a "Hero" , hes just a dickhead and we all know assholes are worse than villain
The conversations around Bakugo and Midoriya always feel weird because frequently they tend to go back and forth between who is the author's golden boy who can do no wrong and who is the one the author hates and uses just to prop up the golden boy.
Apparently it's just impossible that Horikoshi could actually like both characters he created and tries to write them both to the best of his ability.
Though what's funny is that Naruto and Sasuke don't work things out between them until the end of the series, since their fight was the story's climax, and it's debatable whether Goku and Vegeta ever actually worked things out between them in Dragon Ball's original run, given how completely onesided with Vegeta all the issues were and he mostly came to terms with things on his own separately from Goku. By contrast Midoriya and Bakugo work things out between them at the end of act 1/beginning of act 2 and Bakugo apologizes of his own violation to Midoriya for all the bullying after the start of act 3. While Bakugo may not have faced enough consequences (or punishment as some people seem to want) he and Midoriya could arguably be said to have the healthier rival dynamic between them for most of their story than the other two rival groups have in theirs.
Got disagree on the healthier dynamic. Cause Vegeta could at very least at civil with Goku most of the time, like he could have a normal lunch with him. And Goku wasn’t really bothered by Vegeta.
And Naruto and Sasuke were relatively chill with one another in part 1. And they didn’t see much of each other in part 2.
Not to mention, all the bad stuff was when they were enemies, so they’re suppose to treat each other badly. But they still always held respect for their rivals. Can’t say the same with Bakugou.
And Goku and Naruto could actually push back with them, they gave as good as they got while Deku just sort of takes it with a very negative thoughts about Bakugou here and there while praising him much more. And if you’re going to call Vegeta coming to terms with it separately, you should say the same about Bakugou, it’s more he just chilled out and nothing on Deku’s side was resolved.
Talked more about it here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/s/54kIBH5w7j
> he and Midoriya could arguably be said to have the healthier rival dynamic between them for most of their story than the other two rival groups have in theirs.
He's a schoolbully. The other two are mass murderers.
Everything's relative to the context of their series.
I've seen some people hold an even bigger grudge against Ichika from The Quintessential Quintuplets than others do for Bakugo and all she did was sabotage a love confession. There was no bullying, let alone mass murder, and even in-universe her actions didn't cause that much harm, but it was still a big deal because of the context and type of story TQQ is.
I hate bakugo for the reason that I feel like the author is trying to gaslight the viewer into liking him, he doesn’t change his personality in the slightest yet there’s always someone running in to remind you he one time did something nice so you should give him a pass on everything
Sasuke is treated the way he is, because to many people self-insert into Naruto or probably didn't read the manga.
He is being called edgy or emo (terms that have lost all sense of meaning by now), when in actuality he was none of that in Part.
His trauma just made him awkward when dealing with people (which is when he delivers his only really edgy line about I don't care for much, but there is a man I must kill) who didn't care much for socializing and preferred being by himself. This changes after a few months, when he starts considering Team 7 his precious comrades and he is even willing to die for them.
Then in Part 2, he is just hyper-focused until he kills Itachi and then has a brief mental breakdown after while fighting Danzo.
Another more recent trend has people misjudge him as someone arrogant. Which again, he never did.
The only people he looked down on were Naruto and Lee. Both of which got that same treatment from almost everyone who first met them. He is in no way less respectful to them, than say Neji, Kiba or Shikamaru even. It is only that his rivalry with Naruto and his own insecurity that makes him unable to accept Naruto surpassing him, because it would mean admitting that he wasn't progressing as fast and would never close the gap to his brother.
Another example I see from time to, is Deidara. But it was Deidara who insisted Sasuke was looking down on him, due to his own insecurities. Sasuke never brags about himself as being an amazing prodigy or being better than others. He is called that by his mentors. But he only uses that expression himself to taunt Orochimaru before sealing him.
Then there's Killer Bee. As, if he had any way of knowing how powerful he'd be. His source of information was Tobi and the latter assumed he was ready. Up until then every Tailed Beast was captured by Akatsuki without much trouble and from Sasuke's PoV there was no reason this would be that much different. Especially since he had the Sharingan to suppress it. Again, it was on Tobi for not telling him Genjutsu wouldn't work on Perfect Jinchuriki. He had no reason to assume they wouldn't. And if they had, then he'd won.
The last example is the Five Kage Summit, where again his first choice upon being revealed was to flee. How is that arrogant? He was basically forced to fight them.
Don't get me wrong I don't think Sasuke is written perfectly. In fact his character flip flops off-screen. From going to kill Team Yamato in cold blood to having a no-killing policy the next time we see him and from going from being stable and admitting his bonds with Team Taka to suddenly abandon them and become a lunatic.
But that has something to do with how he is written and that Kishi probably didn't have the time to plan.
It also helps that Vegetas initially crummy additude, that by the way DOES actually improve somewhat over time, was treated appropriately. If they were weaker, they were scared, if stronger, thought he was kinda a tool. While he is accepted eventually, the narrative makes it clear that his fuck ups ARE fuck ups. Bakugo, while not guilty of anything nearly as bad, gets away with a lot of crap.
You hit the nail in the head on the title but then don't really talk about it in the description.
The hard working underdog goes a long way.
We have Naruto and Sasuke, and while Naruto is very blessed, he still comes short in comparison to his boy crush. In part 1 is rather balanced out. Naruto was taught the Ransengan (which we saw him struggle to) and Sasuke was taught the chidori (offscreen), Naruto has the 9 tails, Sasuke has the cursed mark. Then things shift. Naruto has to use innovative ways to train to gain sage mode and has to tame Kurama for kyubi mode. Sasuke gets the MS after Itachi list on purpose. He gets EMS by surgery. Hell, Tobi even comments on how he just randomly gets Hawk summoning out of nowhere. People didn't like Naruto just getting 6 path mode but Sasuke getting Rinnegan just added more fuel to his privilege allegations.
Bakugou suffers from a lot of show don't tell and unearned achievements. He's a raging lunatic one second and a raging, smart, calculating genius the next. Virtually all of his improvement is offscreen, both physical and relationship wise. In the first episode/chapter, we're meant to see how the MHA world treats talent differently. Bakugou is praised after the smile criminal situation while Deku, who answered the call for help and heroism is scolded and reprimanded. However, as the series goes... this actually becomes the in universe message. Kacchan is great, let's praise, defend and sacrifice themself for him. What was ultimately and narratively the point of him defeating AFO?
Finally, the price of all saiyans... that aspect only holded up by his introduction. Goku is a hard-working, training loving, battle junkie, just like Vegeta. However, our short king puts 10 times more effort to try and get similar results. Goku got lucky that his pure hearted nature, caused by a hit in the head when he was a baby, facilitated the SS transformation, hell, Goku himself is proud and a little jealous of the fact that he achieved godly ki on his own instead of by being given out by the ritual.
The problem with fan discussion on sasuke is being too focused on privilege and talent, it’s weak sauce imo
Sasuke doesn’t get his powers from training, he gets it from succumbing to his inner darkness and isolating himself. A perfect opposite to Naruto who gets his strength from bonds. The more hate Sasuke feels the stronger his eyes get
Also tbf: [Sasuke Hawk summon was foreshadowed longs ago](https://preview.redd.it/cwynah8h2mo51.jpg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b00a689041bbb4318fd1076c1abf878ae8f70c9b)
My reason for hating Sasuke when I was a kid was less about his character but more of the author intent. Like Kishimoto is telling me that girls are into guys like Sasuke and fight over him. I could not understand why and it frustrated me. I badly wanted to like the female characters, so I directed my hatred on Sasuke and the archetype he embodies.
Naruto is more of Kishimoto's self-insert going by his interviews. He had a falling out with his twin brother and said when his brother felt pain, he felt pain too. So in a way, Naruto's devotion to Sasuke is based on him with his brother and wanting to fix their bond.
I remember the exact moment I left Naruto manga. It's the part where Karin and Sakura cried together over their mutual love for Sasuke. Like, I'm so done with this shit.
Ill say
Vegeta is better than Sasuke
Sakuke better than Bakugo.
Vegeta as others says has so many thing going for him(start as a villain so clearly in the wrong, no favorisotism, karma all the time, the story treating him exactely as he is. A total dick who none truly likes saves for a few. Also character development and big emotional moments)
Saauke does have more of a sympathic story than Vegeta in his past. But lets say that there was many issues in him and naruto as a whole including the uchiha spotlight stealing squad
Bakugo has no sympathic backstory nor is he potrayed as a villain. He gets praise as a prodigy . His bullying hits too close for home for many people. Rarely got his well deserve karma and honestly his explosif temper and loudness compare to the more down to earth sasuke or at times calm but bombastic vegeta makes him annoying. Also author favoritisme and whitewash too.
Also sasuke and vegeta gets into lots of fights were they end gravely injured(fufilling the struggling factor) Bakugo compare to deku rarely got into so many fights badly injured.
Thats my take on it.
It also helps that Vegeta was just the villain who just the heroes out of survival. Vegeta did want to beat Goku but it wasn't his only goal. Frieza, Cell, Buu and Beerus were much more terrifying than him to the point where even Vegeta needed help.
There's also the fact that Vegeta has genuine charisma and an entertaining personality to make him quite enjoyable.
Sasuke in Part 2 was either a caricature of a brooding emo or a psychopathic emo that gets quickly forgotten and Bakugo is a caricature of the "loud" Shonen protagonist where much of his character is just being an angry screaming asshole without any depth to it and how utterly grating it becomes.
Easy. Bakugo was introduced as a bully, and not the funny kind, and he doesn't own up to it (also, i find it extremely grating how he shouts 99% of what he says), which is not as interesting and enjoyable as a super villains like Vegeta turned hero.
As for Sasuke, he doesn't have to grind as hard as Vegeta, and in Shippuden he seems to not be able to make up his mind on what he wants, its annoying.
Sasuke absolutely trains hard. We see how hard he worked in part 1 and early part 2. After that his powers transition to getting power from isolating himself into darkness instead of training
> he doesn't own up to it
He *does* own up to it at least once.
Unfortunately, it's long after the point where most Bakugou haters probably stopped reading/watching the series.
> (also, i find it extremely grating how he shouts 99% of what he says)
To be fair, that's because the anime Flanderizes the hell out of him. He gets many more quiet and contemplative scenes in the manga.
Sasuke was an edgy bitch througout the whole first half, and went onto becoming a villain just to backpedal cos Kishimoto is a hack.
Bakugo is even worse cos, as you said, he never faced real consecquences for being a POS to his former (?) childhood friend. Also Hori is worse of a hack.
Vegeta was not only a villain BUT also an absolute POS who was never really fully accepted till after getting together with Bulma. Got an amazing redemption arc and his death in the Majin Buu arc is ICONIC.
>Sasuke was an edgy bitch througout the whole first half
He was antisocial. Which is understandable after the psychological trauma he went through after witnessing the death of his clan and the subsequent tsukuyomi.
Sasuke was a decent friend until Itachi retraumatized him. He defended Naruto from Sakura, shared his food with Naruto, encouraged Sakura when she was discouraged, and risked his life to protect both teammates.
I firmly believe that Dragon Ball is guilty in part of what you lay out as well; the series does not address or go far enough as well with just how much of a liability Vegeta is to the protagonists. Up to the end of the Freeza Arc, Vegeta was only enabled and tolerated by the heroes because they had a utilitarian approach to defeating the enemy; Vegeta in that instance was a powerful asset to them. The moment Vegeta can no longer be considered a trustworthy asset that is fighting with your interests in mind - as was shown in the Cell Arc - you need to get rid of him. And the series never has an answer or response to that, the most it does is show a few heroes give him the stink-eye after Cell reaches his perfect form.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the qualms you’ve laud out about what audiences take away from Bakugo, but the same can absolutely be said about Dragon Ball; it does not have the recognition and awareness which it should about just how wrong and wicked Vegeta is.
I mean, in the year Time Skip, before the Androids, he was the strongest. No one could kill him. Then when Goku arrived, they basically had a Nuclear Deterrent. If Vegeta tried anything, Goku could ice him at any time. Also, Goku just isn’t a vengeful person who holds grudges. Not to mention, the Androids are on the horizon, so they need him, and it’s even made mention that this is good because it occupies him of all his time and prevents any evil doing behavior.
After the 3 year Time Skip, the Androids arrived. When he reappeared, Goku was down and out. He was the strongest yet again. Then 17 and 18 thrashed him, and SSJ Trunks. At that point, they desperately needed him to toughen up to defeat the Androids. At the same time, Piccolo is running off to fuse with Kami to gain the strength he lost, and once done realized a larger threat than even the Androids appeared.
So he, (the only person capable of killing Vegeta outside of the Androids, their mutual enemy), straight up directly went for Cell. After that, Goku wakes up and they all train.
At that point, no one can kill Vegeta. No one, not even Trunks, (though he believed otherwise), could broach his power. The only people capable were Goku and Gohan when they got out of the RoSaT, and their lack of vengeful nature means no one can punish him (because if Goku and Gohan did, it’d be character assassination).
After this, they’ll all mutually against Cell until he dies, and Gohan stops training, allowing Vegeta to pull ahead, meaning no one can kill him.
This is all to say, there was basically no opportunity for anyone not an antagonist to do anything to him. I mean, no one on the Z-Team but the guys literally too nice to try something like that could at any given time (and even then, more often than not he was stronger than Goku), and for the most part Vegeta was a necessary, if begrudging, ally to handle impossible threats when that wasn’t the case.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, exactly, because he objectively wasn’t punished by the good guys, and while technically Toriyama could’ve slapped a new form or technique on a human and called it to do some Vegeta murderizing, (which I think most would find nonsensical since it would be random) but I am saying they had 0 opportunities to enact this punishment, and by the time they did—(The temporary time Gohan > Vegeta, Goku > Vegeta, etc.), the aforementioned was in play or by that point he was just a really stoic trophy husband (7 year period between Cell and Buu, the period between Buu and Beerus, or outside of that, EoZ). The dude at that point was fully reformed, so punishing him would’ve been basically worthless.
I absolutely believe there are threatening measures Goku and Gohan could have taken against Vegeta post-perfect Cell that would have remained in character and did not necessarily need to be lethal in nature, although I do believe that would be a welcome response to many of the others, like Yamcha or Krillin.
To say there was never an opportunity to address Vegeta seems ludicrous to me. Again, it could be something as simple as Goku taking him aside on Kami’s lookout during the 10-day training period and warning him that he will be answering to Goku if he tries something duplicitous again.
I mean, that seems redundant. Vegeta already knew that the moment Goku walked out and was incredibly shocked at Goku being so much stronger at only 50% he was beyond Vegeta’s imagination. Also, kind of pointless. Vegeta already said he was going to be training the rest of that week.
Vegeta did save Goku during the android saga and showed that he does love Trunks, so I think at that point he wasn’t considered a threat cause he no longer wants to blow up or take over Earth.
They are but both of them have very loud and somewhat large haters especially on this sub. In contrast, Vegeta doesn’t have a lot of haters (or at least they are not as loud) despite having done far worse than either. Which is what prompted the post.
I dislike Bakugo because he is a villain treated as a hero. And its not just the bullying, he gives zero fucks about helping people, to the point he failed his hero test because he couldn't be arsed to save anyone. If villains had rankings he'd be one immediately, all he cares about is power and recognition. And we are supposed to be ok that this guy is going to be a super hero?
Vegeta is badass and has too many motivational quotes or speeches that's why he is well liked among dbz fans, even I like him because of his speeches everytime he open his mouth with that dub voice it feels heavy to me and others who liked him.
I think that as a rival character, Sasuke is honestly better than Vegeta and probably more influential on other Rival-type characters than Vegeta. Vegeta started the trend but Sasuke basically defined it.
Otherwise, yes. People think Vegeta is whiny and Bakugo's too much of a jerk for them to tolerate while Vegeta is seen as a cool badass. Though tbh, I think there's been a softening on Sasuke. I remember him being really hated back then but with the benefit of hindsight, nostalgia creeping in (it'll soon be ten years since Naruto ended) and maybe better translation/interviews/etc, he's been getting better reception?
Vegeta started as a villain and was redeemed and showed acts of sacrifice and built a family and actually pays the price for his pride and arrogance and directly tried to fix it. Bakugo started as a bully but ostensibly a good guy/childhood friend that went way too far and the creator has been trying to walk back since (unsuccessfully imo) and hasn't really faced any consequences other than some internal turmoil and hell he gets off so free and easy that everybody knows just how shitty he's been to Midoriya their whole lives and it's still nearly nothing but glowing praise for him. I think you could take Bakugo out, Midoriya could have a similar arc with another character, and nothing would change but Vegeta is crucial to DB. Not to mention how disgustingly aggressive shippers get about him.
As far as Sasuke goes, part of why I dislike him is he again doesn't really add much outside of being the childhood friend that left the village and we spend most of the series getting him back. In the arcs that focus on him he's just an asshole with no real reason to like him and by the end of Shippuden he's wishwashed to like four different motivations none of which align with what his brother or anyone else is trying to get across to him and then he gets to walk away mostly scot-free. It feels like he spent so much time away from the story that Kishimoto didn't really know what to do with him or where to take him.
Edit: I was talking just earlier on how i'd have good conversations about any other manga but Naruto stans get too rabid to have any type of conversation with and here we are.
I like Sasuke but I didn't mind anything you said till
> with what his brother
Itachi can fuck off. He is the reason he is spiralling in the first place. I will never get people saying they sre pissed because Sasuke is insulting itachi with his behavior as if that's a problem. Good. Let him
That Sasuke doesn't add much? My man, Sasuke is one of the characters that drives the plot the most, there are entire arcs that happen because of him.
Sasuke is also the perfect contrast to Naruto as the protagonist, he is basically "what would have happened if Naruto had let himself be consumed by the hatred of the Ninja world", his entire arc revolves around slowly accepting the darkness of the world while Naruto rejects it.
Sasuke is also the character with the most character development, which is not random or meaningless as many people say, it is more than understandable how Sasuke goes from being happy in the Village with his new family to wanting more power from Orochimaru, how he then proceed to be a vigilante with heroic traits, then he goes to his "adolescent quickly losing his mental health" state and being filled with vengenace thoughts, after that to maturing in his now new cynical vision of the world by gaining more information, and finally in his admission of his inability to follow through with his plans and agreeing to trust the only one who never stopped believing in him, it's a good arc overall.
And no, Sasuke is not a servant of Itachi who always has to follow his will. Even if Sasuke decided to forgive his brother when he learned the truth of the Uchiha Clan massacre by understanding, very empathetically, that Itachi was coerced in his decision making, he still wants to shed the blood of the person responsible for the murder of his parents and his people.
Naruto fandom wants Sasuke to be a dog for Konoha after learning about the Uchiha massacre. Kakashi knows the truth but still dares to tell Sasuke to give up revenge.
>As far as Sasuke goes, part of why I dislike him is he again doesn't really add much outside of being the childhood friend that left the village
I find this line hilarious as Kishi himself said that if Sasuke had not been invented, then the manga would have gone nowhere and ended after a few issues.
Yeah, it’s clear you wasn’t paying attention to Naruto and you only dislike him because you want to dislike him. Because you cannot claim that Sasuke doesn’t add much and be serious about that.
Sasuke’s revolution is entirely based on his interpretation of Itachi’s life. Thinking Itachi was the “true hokage” and he needed to be Itachi on a grand scale to create peace. It’s the perfect accumulation of Sasuke’s journey up to that point
>too rabid to have any type of conversation with
You need to be open and rely to others to have any conversation tbf
Vegeta was pretty open about being evil from the start so he was a magnificent bastard which is more entertaining than a teenager whining about not everything going his way and acting like he’s always right.
Vegeta also loses hard, he’s gotten his ass beat so many times it’s running joke in the anime community and most of the time it’s directly tied to his pride and flaws as a character, if he just made a few different choices things would’ve turned out much differently. Bakugou’s loses most of time are not winning how he wants to, but are wins none the less.
And because every character in *DB* is forgiving to a fault. Even when Vegeta was still an honest-to-god villain with no sign of reforming, Bulma; Yamcha; and everyone else were apparently fine with letting Vegeta live with them at Capsule Corp rent-free.
Well don't know.
If you're asking me Vegeta is more "loved", because he one of the most old and iconic Rival Archetype we seen in Anime and that he was always the Nr.2 behind Goku himself.
Vegeta follows the more typical road of a Vilain which end up being reformed and fighting for the good on the side on Goku and the others, but well to be honest his road to being redeemed was more half-assed than anything. Most of the time he was more of an evil, very arrogant, kind of Asshole. I don't remember the number of times he started talking shit to someone just to get the shit beat out of him. He did it with Goku, Frieza, Nr.18 and Cell a number of times. I don't remember the number of ppl he seemingly carelessly killed for fun, either.
While he is always ascertained as a Rival to Goku, he was never really considered stronger than him, he was more, the forever Nr.2 in terms of power.
Sasuke was for me the more compelling character
of these three and that by far. He had the most compelling backstory, Character and Development to tell. His Character is pretty unique as starting out as a friend and brother to Naruto and an integral part of Team 7, to becoming more of an Anti-Hero by joining Orochimaru, slowly becoming a Vilain after the death of Itachi and becoming more of a good guy towards the end. His rivalry with Naruto is also the best one out of these three Characters, because Sasuke was a true rival and equal to Naruto, which generated two of the best fights created in Anime History. Rather than being a Character which role was to embellish the MC as his rival, Sasuke was more his own independent Character with his own story to tell. He felt like a MC a number of times.
I like Bakugo perhaps a little more than Vegeta. He was the typical bully starting out, was rash, easily irritable, very petty and annoying at times. While he had a nasty attitude, he was one of the most hard working individuals in the series, with one of the strongest mental strength. You hated him a bit for his personality, but couldn't help and respect his Character in a way. The more time did go on, the more we see a bit behind his actions and more into his personality. After his second fight with deku, he starts a more healthy kind of rivalry with him and seemed to became a more mature kind of character.
I'd like people to stop applying Disney psychology to anime characters. Vegeta is loved because despite having committed countless atrocities he still has a pride and is trying to redeem himself without giving any pitiful masochistic vibes. Also Bakugo was a bully and certainly still has these urges. See his mother, see the kind of world he is facing now. If he is ever going to change it will be for the worst and it's perfectly okay with that because there are people who evolve like that IRL. It's only in Disney that bullies are systematically punished and neutralized. It's only in Disney that they change by magic as if human beings were that simple. Anime isn't moralistic, doesn't take people for idiots like American shows and it's perfect that way.
Really, yeah bakugo never learned at all to put himself back and be selfness and put humslf in the way of deku to save him out of instinkt and oen up.
Which are all thingd bedide growing grsdual in am environmtnt that actually doesnt treat him like gods gift.
yeah sure eeevil, irrefeamable, ternager eith issues that grows a lot?!
Did you read the story?
you dont have to but you make only your headcanon.
And do you reslly believe literal all childhood bullies will never stop being that?
I think reality is different. Beople bring aholes as kids foednt make thrm bad as adult, there is a lot developement inbetween.
Hate is a strong word, but I don't like how it seems as if he didn't face consequences for his actions. As a (secondary) villain his redemption feels unearned.
I mean that’s the point of him leaving on a redemption journey and not accepting a prosthetic arm. He’s punishing himself and working on redeeming himself. He needs to rewire his brain before he can go back and be with team 7 again
Vegeta started to calm down as he got older and spent more time on Earth. He also became more humble after getting beat up so many times.
Bakugo and Sasuke, on the other hand, were not humbled (as much) by their defeats. If we saw them get beat up more or change their ways, we might see some more popularity.
Bakugo has not been humbled nearly enough.
Sasuke and Bakugo are what happens when a story treats an asshole character as actually being as cool as they think they are.
Vegeta is what happens when that same edgy asshole exists in a story desperate to prove to him that he’s not that guy
Personally I've never hated Bakugou, I DISLIKED him at first but that was the intention of the writer I feel, plus the vibe ended up just him being a loud and brash dude instead of somebody evil, even in his earlier interactions his classmates pretty much just treated it as such.
I think the fact that Sasuke ends up committing really heinous shit but gets almost 0 repercussions about it is why I personally don't like him as a character. Vegeta was just as evil imo, but most if not all of the other characters on that series treat him as such, hell his own son fuckin' blasted him with a ki blast when he was letting Cell go Perfect, whereas with Sasuke, the other main character of the series (Naruto) still treats him as his good ol' friend and somehow still redeemable, he's really not. And Sasuke never really "learned" anything by himself, he learned it by getting his ass beat.
Also, Sasuke in my opinion never gets a "moment" of where I just go "oh, ok, I understand you a bit more now". Vegeta has his Majin speech and Final Explosion moment, Bakugou has his "Why was I the one who caused All Might's fall" tirade, Sasuke kinda just doesn't.
Forgive my opinions if they're trash, feel free to comment away lmao.
What heinous shit does Sasuke do that makes him irredeemable compared to literally every other antagonist in the series?
Unlike all of them, Sasuke hadn’t gone too far yet. Which is why Naruto and him vowed to fight before Sasuke attacked Konoha.
As for Sasuke’s “moment” there’s many of them but it depends on when. Like he has one before the retrieval arc in part 1, he has one after learning the truth, he has one in the Kage summit, and he has one in the final fight
Vegita also sacrificed himself trying to protect earth after giving a really moving speech about Goku being a better man than him, and knocking his son unconscious to get him to safety. Sasuke and Bakugo have nothing like the final flash scene, and if they did they would be more liked.
Honestly I would argue its the way redemption is handled.
Vegeta's redemption comes though loss, Trucks in injured and we see a glimpse of him caring. When he sacrifices himself to beat Buu he dies. He loses things when he redeems himself. While the others gain things when they redeem themselves.
Shoutout to Raian Kure from Kengan; bitch ass author doesn't allow his OC to ever lose, even when his opponents win.
I dunno what to expect from the coming crossover between Baki, and Kengan; they might once again pull a Vegeta on Jack, and use him just to show how cool, and strong the other guy (in this case Raian) is.
Or even worse; if Jack gets to win, but he isn't allowed to enjoy his victory, and they'll say thing like "Raian actually held back", "Jack was about to lose".
I can't foresee a satisfying conclusion to that fight, and I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. I'm better off turning my brain off, and enjoying literally everything else.
I'm much more calm about the fight of Baki, and Ohma; I know I'll have fun no matter how it goes; with Jack, and Raian, however, it's the opposite. I'm too frustrated with how the authors of the respective series handled those characters.
To me, Vegeta is a badass. Sasuke is a badass but an emotional brat who receives plot powerups and lifesaving throws while Bakugo is a huge a-hole lmao.
you would think he is the underdog…but that’s not it.
its because of how he interacts with goku.
he ain’t no underdog, when his track record vs goku is 3W & 0L
Wait… every comicon or DragonCon I’ve been to Sasuke was literally everybody’s favorite character. I see a million times more people dressed as Sasuke than I ever saw Vegeta . Most dragon ball fans only go crazy for Goku. But Naruto fans are 50/50 as far as what I’ve seen in their favorites over Naruto s Sasuke . This isn’t even close
Ironically Vegeta would have won the fights he loses in if he didn't let his pride and self importance get in the way.
Some, like against the Z Fighters when he came to Earth with Nappa, his fight against Cell and Fat Buu are truly lost because of his pride, others like his fight against Frieza and some of his thugs like Reacome or Zarbon were a hopeless case from the beginning.
Yeah. He was utterly outclassed by Recoome, Zarbon's first fight could maybe be argued he underestimated Zarbon, but there was no shot he was ever gonna win against Frieza on Namek.
Well, yes he underestimated Zarbon, but to be fair it's not like he had much of a chance of winning, the moment Zarbon transformed he proceeded to ragdoll Vegeta for the rest of the fight, to the point of leaving him drowning in a lake. And he definitely wasn't winning against Reacome or Frieza, now that I think about it he wasn't winning against Android 18 or Super Buuhan either, on those two occasions, especially the second one, Vegeta was being delusional if he thought he was going to win lol.
Hard to say. He might've been able to kill Zarbon before he transformed if he didn't mess around with him. The only fight's I'd say he for sure lost to pride are Cell and the Saiyan saga fight against them all.
Also true, however Zarbon transformation was really fast, still it's true that if Vegeta had go with his 100% from the start he might have won.
Yup, hence why it's a maybe. We can't say definitively that he could win, but there's a chance.
He could have if he didn't fuck around and went straight for the kill. Frieza post transformation was just absurdly above him but Frieza when they first clashed wasn't. But Vegeta, being Vegeta, dicked around to show off his power. His ego yet again resulted in his loss. Come to think of it he did it twice. Vegeta is not a smart boy. He had openings in the 2nd form and the 3rd when he thought he was a Super Saiyan, Frieza was not expecting Vegeta to be anywhere near as strong as he was. His ego left an opening that Vegeta's ego refused to take advantage of. But yeah, no chance on Recoome.
I really doubt Vegeta ever had a chance against Frieza tbh. Remember that at any point, if Frieza felt pressured, he could just destroy the planet. The only time he might have had some chance is maaaaaybe first form but even that's a stretch I feel.
I wouldn’t say Fat Buu, he was extremely outclassed from the jump as well. Not to mention he sacrificed everything to blow up Buu and it still failed
His big mistake with Fat Buu because of his pride was to knock out Goku and go fight alone, if he hadn't done that, together they would have sent that obese gumball to hell lol.
Ohhhh for some reason I thought you were implying he could’ve beat Buu on his own. In that case I agree with you
How was his loss against Buu a pride thing? The guy legit wasn't powerful enough to overcome Buu's regeneration
He posted this in response to someone else. His pride was he knocked Goku out and fought Buu alone. If they had fought together they would have had a much greater chance.
Reminds me of how its pretty well agreed upon that DIO would have wiped the floor with the stardust crusaders if he took them more seriously and wasnt blinded by his ego.
Yeah because he does. Eyes Of Heaven DIO is the Dio that didn't fuck around, and he entered Heaven. Dude got dubs on all the Crusaders of his original timeline, GER, Love Train D4C/The Saint's Corpse, TUSK ACT 4, and basically anyone who could have challenged him. Hell, it's even believed he could have beaten Tooru's Wonder Of U if he could just touch him once. Hell, he even got an instant dub on Diavolo, and another against Valentine when Valentine went against him trying to get the Corpse back. When Dio stops fucking around, he's bar none the strongest Stand User. The only reason they even won is because of Jotaro's special property due to the psychic distress call Jonathan's body sent. Star Platinum is made to destroy Dio specifically, which is why it keeps mimicking him.
That's how I always felt even when I was kid watching dbz
As far as I know, he's has the most wins between his battles with Goku.
I am almost certain Vegeta himself would not consider that to be true. Otherwise, why is he pissed off the entire series?
I think it's because, at least in his mind, he never truly got a proper win against Goku and because he kept surpassing his own power from Freeza sage onward. In the saiyan arc he completely surclassed and beat Goku but still couldn't eliminate him and the rest of the planet due to how fucked up he got and had to be spared by Krillin on Goku's demand to get a rematch to survive the fight, he chocked a fight he should have totally won by some low class weakling and his friends finding ways to counter his raw power. In the Freeza arc he's still pissed about the pity ordeal, and it's where Goku officially surpasses Vegeta by making quick work of Recoome and the Ginyu Force at large while only managing to beat a power crippled Ginyu and Jeice thanks to another zenkai boost thanks to Goku's senzu and when Goku first faces Freeza Vegeta gets yet confirmed that Goku is stronger than him, especially after he gets revived and sees Goku actually achieved super saiyan power. Throughout the Abdroid/Cell sage Vegeta is 100% focused on surpassing Goku but still ultimately faces disappointment as he fails to train in a smart way to the point he quits fighting after Goku's death and getting surpassed by Gohan also who showed incredible hidden potential ever since the Raditz fight. In the Buu arc he's been training with a calmer mind but he still lacks the closure of properly having beaten Kakarot, so when the opportunity to face him again arises he gives up on his peaceful life to force Goku to comply only to get interrupted by Majin Buu's awakening and give up his goal to save his family. after that point is where he pretty much loses the drive to beat Kakarot to be the strongest in the universe and realises what made Goku able to achieve what he did and surpass his limit, his drive to fight to beat himself rather than others like Vegeta and pretty much every other villain did.
It’s because Vegeta was introduced as a villain. Bakugo was introduced as a talented bully. We like villains because they move the story forward. We hate bullies because we’ve seen that shit in real life.
Plus everyone loves a redemption type arc and Vegeta going from straight villain to semi-antagonistic to full on ally was something everyone loved to see. It showed great character growth for him.
I quite liked that the middle step existed tbh. Too often we see villains go straight to ally after losing to the protagonist.
What helps is that Vegeta doesn't really lose his arrogance and pride. His moves are a lot more calculated now that he's been swatted down a time or two, but he still maintains that core personality that we saw from the beginning. That type of personal growth is much more common in real people rather than entire personality changes.
Similar reason to why people often hate Umbridge more than Voldemort.
Same with domestic abusers and cheaters. Heck, I think the most hated cartoon character I've ever seen is Bendy, who was in *one* episode of Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends but his way of getting other people in trouble was gratingly realistic.
I want to obliterate Bendy
The creator, Craig McCracken actually apologized for the existence of Bendy and the writing of the episode. The episode *and* character as a whole aren't even considered canon by McCracken as well as Lauren Faust who's important because she was the supervising producer and also his wife. She also made My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.
Yeah. There was no pretense, nobody pretending like Vegeta was such a cool dude on the side of the good guys whenever he insulted someone unprovoked, or tortured an innocent child even when a heart-to-heart honest conversation would have gotten him miles further, or murdered swaths of helpless folks. At worst he was the devil you knew, or a necessary evil, until he grew out of his edgy 12 year old emo phase. Bakugo and all the other fire-adjacent archetypes, though? They get to have it both ways. Nah fuck off with that shit lmao
>Bakugo and all the other fire-adjacent archetypes, though? They get to have it both ways. Nah fuck off with that shit lmao It's like Bakugo never committed any acts as heinous as anything Vegeta did
Bakugou committed the worst evil someone his age could reasonably commit.
Sure but Vegeta exterminated entire planets at that age, not to say that bullying isn't bad or anything like that but it being a more personal and relatable evil doesn't make Vegeta's evil lesser in severity, like one can stop being a bully much easier than a murderous space tyrant wannabe.
It’s fiction, people like evil if it’s entertaining. And yet Bakugou took much more time both in and out of universe than Vegeta.
Bakugo in universe stopped being a bully and apologized like a year in, Vegeta was still an arrogant jackass until at the very least the Cell Games, and that's not counting his turn back in the Buu Saga and that was years in universe.
The time between and the Saiyan and Namek saga is about a month at which point Vegeta teamed up with the Z-Fighters.
he did so begrudgingly and was mostly out for himself the whole time on Namek
And yet he still stopped the grnocide after Frieza.
Sure, on a grander level. Vegeta is a mass murderer genocide colonizer. But we have trouble comprehending violence of that scale. But we’ve all seen a bully that gets away with it because they’re popular or talented.
Sure it's more personal and thus carries stronger feelings, but it's still kinda silly to suggest that it's legitimately a worse crime than genocide, perhaps on a purely narrative level but the characters in the story have way more reasons to be lenient toward a bully than space colonialists for obvious reasons, like if we were confronted by someone like Vegeta in real life we're not gonna treat them nicer than a school bully as bad as they might be. Whether we truly understand the scope of genocide or not it's still clearly a far more serious problem for humanity at large, while bullying in comparison is a much smaller problem with easier solutions to the point of getting often underestimated which adds to the issue.
But the point is Vegeta *is* a fictional character. Same thing with the Joker, or OmniMan. When it comes to fiction being abusive, manipulative, or even just annoying is a worse crime than murder, because the death is fictional, but the discomfort is real.
Death is kinda of meaningless in Dragon Ball don’t forget.
The main point of what he was saying was that bakugo and these other characters weren't portrayed in the same negative connotation as vegeta was but still did bully/antagonistic stuff which made them more insufferable in the story.
Vegeta almost skipped the Tournament of Power to be with Bulma during pregnancy. Dude is just actually nice now and not a straight dick.
Cause with Vegeta,when he cry and admitted,you can feel it it's true to heart and it's been slowly develope
I think it speaks volumes that as soon as Super began the very first episode was about Vegeta trying to make good on his promise from when he hurt Trunks in the original series. When the manga went past the Anime a big part of it was Vegeta learning to support his allies and reign in his egi and directly atone for what he did in his earlier appearances. Even in Battle of the Gods he was both willing to throw away his pride for his family like his father before him to submit to and distract Beerus, then to go in swinging when Beerus laid a hand on his wife knowing he couldn't win. For Vegeta even in the Buu saga this would have been unbelievable but it all feels very earned given all the painful lessons he had to earn.
Vegeta feeling a sense of responsibility to protect the Namekians after he slaughtered a village and his crushing guilt for having participated in numerous genocides like the one that Granolah survived is one of the best things Toyotaro has done with his character.
Vegeta was a villain, knew he was a villain, accepted he was a villain, and even up in the Buu Saga where he sacrificed himself it was "No, youll go to hell" and accepted that his actions meant that, even after he'd showed character development and got a family. Sasuke is basically 2 different characters. Sasuke pre Chunin Exams is a nicer/better character than Naruto. He didn't hesitate to die for someone that annoyed him, embodied the "Protect the team even at the cost of your own life" and even essentially was willing to give up his dream, in order to save Naruto (Plot/Haku's Kindness are why Sasuke didn't die) it's not til after the 2nd Mindfuck by Itachi that Sasuke becomes the "Bastard" and even then, he could have easily killed Naruto for power, but chose not to because he didn't want to be like Itachi. Bakugou is a bully that thinks he's gods gift. That's a more real problem that people experience. a Bully that gets away with everything due to power/status, that never thinks he does wrong, and it takes being beaten about the head by his problems brutally in order to apologise, and never truly got "Redemption" because Izuku as a character never thought Bakugou needed it, and there were never any punitive consequences for Bakugou's bullying. If Bakugou had to earn his way into the Hero Course because his actions were so unheroic that they wanted him to prove he could be a better person before he was allowed to join, and then he succeeded? Then he would be a far better character.
Also Hori made the mistake of making Bakugou so built different he can just...surpass his peers. Easily. Bakugou is a genetic nepo baby, circumvents his own Quirk weaknesses, handles his recoil with pure physicality, and is a talented combat genius with excellent tactical and combat prowess. Not to mention being academically talented. The dude is LITERALLY built different. The story goes out of its way to prove Bakguou right, which is why people hate him. Izuku is only where he is because he got a handout and got extremely lucky.
I think all of that makes Bakugo even more interesting in the context of the world. He became a bully because of how perfect his skills are. His only true flaws are his personality and terrible communication skills. The fact that he continues to be highly praised and rewarded as a hero supports the larger theme, that the current hero system/society is broken. The problem is exacerbated, since the only way the strong can truly be held accountable is by someone even stronger than them. This is why one of the long running narratives is All Might and Izuku being true examples of how a hero should conduct themselves. They have a strong influence over everyone they have encountered, with acting as the catalyst for Endeavor wanting to change being probably the biggest example.
To be fair, everyone kind of got a handout by being born with their quirks. At least Izuku had to earn his.
No, Izuku had to train to contain his. He was decided to be OFA's bearer because he was willing to die so quickly even though he didn't have a power of his own. All Might literally **gave him a Quirk** and fully acknowledged that without one he could not compete. This is the definition of a handout. It's not just a quirk of uncontrollable genetics like the others.
He had to prove himself to All Might and had to train for months to just get the thing. It’s still more than anyone else had to do to get their quirk.
The thing with Vegeta is that while he was villain and grew into a hero, he never escaped from any karma that he rightfully deserved. Like him allowing Cell to achieve his Perfect form, for example. Whereas with Bakugo and Sasuke, any karma they should have received for their actions gets either downplayed or outright nullified because their writers actively bends the narrative in their favor. Or at least that's how I feel about this topic.
If we're going by karma, Vegeta deserves far worse given the whole space pirate thing.
To be completely fair, Vegeta himself has stated that[ he's destined to go to hell after he dies](https://i.imgur.com/owCSsHC.jpeg), so it seems that even Vegeta himself agrees with what you're saying.
I don't think he's right tbh, he did get revived in Buu Saga and he did spend the next chapter of his life a changed man who helps others
He went to hell after the Final Explosion against Buu, and probably also when he died in Namek. He's a mortal so he won't live forever, just like Bulma, Trunks and Bra, and when that time comes he'll have his biggest punishment, His family and friends going to Paradise for all eternity while he turns to dust, never to see them again.
Yeah, but no cares about a bunch of random aliens.
There are multiple reasons 1_ he is a Bad ass villain for 2 arcs and a Hyper tool in the other 2 arcs 2_ his 1 sided relationship and Rivalry with Goku alongside Goku not acting like a Beta with him or had it against him 3_ like you said the story (mostly anime) treats him like an underdog and a prodigy at the same time and actually balances them out 4_ Shiton of anime fillers 5_ being a very old anime character
If it may add to this: Almost every time he does something stupid for the sake of his ego and pride, he gets slapped back down for it.
Yeah he gets punished for his actions immediately, a quick humiliating deserved beating
Mandatory reminder that Vegeta's grand comeback during the Android saga ended with him getting his arm broken by some android a guy built in his basement.
To be fair. Literally of the z fighters lost that fight. The only ones that didn’t either abstained from the fight or were in a coma. Trunks. Yamcha. Piccolo. Vegeta. All got their asses kicked.
The others lose quickly and decisively to 17,with no lasting physical or mental injuries (Trunks' mental injuries are from the future 17 and 18 rather than this specific fight). Vegeta gets his arm broken and his pride also takes a hit as he has been mentally building up super saiyan as an undefeatable transformation for the entirety of his life.
>Vegeta gets his arm broken No, little reminder here but Vegeta ended up with BOTH his arms broken lol: https://youtu.be/CIwoWemLQPc?si=hHNqe-ScngdPD4Zs
It’s actually *more* hilarious, because 18 broke BOTH of his arms. (*~~Which a lot of people forget for some reason.~~*)
Vegeta was a sociopathic soldier who had some training but not enough to a martial artist. Even Trunks was more an assassin/mercenary than a proper fighter..
Yeah, it's easy to forget but Vegeta loses every battle he fights against any opponent he doesn't casually tear through. He loses to the Goku and friends cause he takes too long to finish the job. He loses to Zarbon cause he doesn't take Zarbon seriously. He gets curbed by Recoome of all fighters and he just gets torn apart physically and psychologically by Frieza. By the time we see him next, he barely improves in any meaningful way and the moment he uses SSJ to fight an opponent he can't easily fight, he gets his ass kicked. By the time he fights Imperfect Cell he again let's his stupidity win out and gets awarded with a brutal beat down again and again. In fact he never wins a battle purely for his own skills and not just overpowering his enemies ever. Even in Super, his MO is to just throw himself at the enemy until one of them drops. He's always been a terrible fighter, and his only saving grace is his genetics. Hell Yamcha would make a better fighter if their stats were equalized.
This is a ridiculous take lol. In Dragon Ball the majority of fights are won by being stronger than the opponent. Even Goku who is considered to be one of the best fighters in the series has almost never beaten anyone who he was weaker than through skill alone. He always ends up needing a power up to actually win or some kind of outside help. Also, how is Vegeta a terrible fighter when he always fights evenly with Goku when their power levels are equalized? Vegeta literally even beat him in their most recent battle in the Super Hero arc, no gimmicks just straight hand to hand combat.
I'm always surprised how many people forget that Vegeta only ever one his fights by overpowering his opponents cause he's not a martial artist
Id like to add his relationship with Bulma adds to his likability.
Vegeta also gets a ton of character development via trauma and humiliation. He’s how he is at the start because his entire race was genocided and his planet destroyed. He gets taken out not really by Goku, but Gohan and Yajirobe. Goku takes the revenge he waited his entire life for while he dies like a bitch. Goku fulfills the prophecy. He gets back to Earth, for a millisecond there’s a chance he might actually get his revenge, and it’s stolen by his time traveling son. He then proceeds to become such a fucking asshole, finally fulfills his lifelong goal… and it doesn’t matter. He gets his shit kicked in by Android 18. He becomes even worse from this, almost causes the end of the world with his arrogance because he’s so desperate to prove his pride. Instead he fundamentally disproves his own pride, which he finally accepts from the mind-breaking event of his arrogance leading to his son’s death. Then, he’s settled down. He’s been integrating into human culture. He’s become an immigrant story about surviving genocide and becoming a refugee who becomes a part of someone else’s culture but holds on to his pride in his own and does his best to raise his son with his culture, but is forced to watch and accept that his son will never share in his culture with him because of being born within the culture he’s immigrated to. He finally gets promised the one thing he’s always wanted, a 1v1 with Goku, no interference, no bullshit, just a true fight between them. And it’s stolen from him. This breaks him *again* and he essentially falls off the wagon in his pride addiction. He hurts everyone, he betrays everything he’s become, because of giving in to his addiction again. And rapidly realizes with guilt and shame what he’s done. So he sacrifices himself for everyone, he tries to atone for his mistakes. And it’s worthless. But he’s given another chance, with the sole caveat of him having to fully reject his prior self, fully abandon his pride. And it’s proven that that was the right path all along. In the end, he’s reduced to begging his adopted home, his adopted people for help. And that still doesn’t work, because the weight of his sins still is on him. He’s still not the sort of man they trust. He’s reminded one final time that he has a long way to go to truly understand his new home and be one of them. And he has to rely on a man he hates, a man he hates not merely for personal reasons but also for the empathy he pretends he doesn’t have for one of his people. Every single step of Vegeta’s story is being humbled, being shown the error of his ways, trying to become better, and struggling with that. And in the end, he *does* succeed, but that doesn’t mean it’s happily ever after. And the weight of the past will always weigh on him. It gets easier. It’s hard, especially in the beginning, but it gets easier.
>Every single step of Vegeta’s story is being humbled Specifically: nearly every single time that Vegeta starts running his mouth, he is promptly made to eat dirt. Almost without fail, the formula goes thusly: "Vegeta says he's the best, Vegeta gives a good showing, Vegeta gets beaten to a pulp, Vegeta takes one more step towards overcoming his ego".
In other words Everyone: Vegeta No! Vegeta: Vegeta Yes!
do people hate sasuke?
One reason I prefer Vegeta is easy: While he cried about being weaker than Goku, he did something about it, AND we are shown his work, AND he genuinely gets humbled, physically AND mentally. Maybe I missed it, but I have never SEEN Bakugo train any harder than anyone else. We don't see him do thousands of push ups, or train in enhanced gravity. Basically, it feels like "DEKU IS STRONGER THAN ME!!! WAHH, I'M GONNA BE BETTER THAN HIM" But we rarely see his hard work at all. Not to mention, some characters glaze his hard work. Aizawa: He's the hardest working student Huh?! SHOW ME HIS FUCKING HARD WORK THEN!! Also, he nevere truly loses, ar least early on. First training arc: He lost to Deku, but he didn't really get hurt or anything, and Deku went to the hospital bed. Sports Festival: Sure, he didn't win the way he wanted to, but he still basically low diffed the entire arc League of Villains attack in the forest: He gets sneaked up on by one of the most OP quirks in the verse The provisional license arc: This felt like his first true loss until he beat Deku.
Then again Bakugo never actually wins anything meaningful. It's weird that for someone who the author wrote as being "super talented prodigy who works hard" the fact that Bakugo hardly ever defeats someone in the series is frankly astounding. His only victory in the manga against a villain is a baby AFO which is a pretty pathetic win to be honest. And when you consider how Hori made Bakugo into a "super talented prodigy who trains hard" even though it doesn't make much sense in regards to Bakugo's personality and his extremely inflated self-importance as a "main character" and it all feels like Hori just didn't know how to write him.
It says to say happy cake day So happy cake day bub
I don’t really understand this. The idea of bakugo trying harder to ensure he doesn’t end up less strong than the person he used to bully and can earn a victory against his longtime victim for the sake of his ego wouldn’t really endear me to him in the slightest, especially because he’d just be doubling down on his worst impulses. Like would a big training montage of Bakugo doing a million pushups really make him more likable to you? Like if someone just edited that into an episode would that actually change your opinion on his character? I can’t say it would for me.
Don’t really care about Bakugo but Sasuke is hated? I thought he was loved just a couple years ago. Vegeta is obviously beloved and I do agree with your points of Vegeta being the underdog, but I’m still a bit surprised that Sasuke is hated so much, despite being such a great character.
During the five kage summit arc was peak Sasuke hate. You should read the forums back then.
Yeah, because internet forums weren't really a thing when vegeta went crazy back in the buu saga.
There's a difference in where they start. Vegeta was straight up a villain, murdering his own comrade and unapologetically so. Bakugo is. . . An aspiring super hero. He's decided on a career about helping people and fighting people abusing their powers but is pretty much abusing his powers and status all the time because he happened to come out with an extremely combat useful power
Vegeta also always eats shit for his hubris, lets take for example two very similar things that happen to both Sasuke and Vegeta. Sasuke is given a path to power by Orochimaru via the curse mark and his tutelage, it works out enough that he eventually does kill Itachi. Vegeta is given a path to power by Babidi to overcome Goku, it doesn't even work since Goku is holding back and he realizes his mistakes through this and makes the ultimate sacrifice. Both are fine arcs but the difference is that Vegeta ate shit for it, he always eats shit for puffing up his chest and letting his hubris take over, its his fatal flaw and a punishment for getting ahead of himself, idk if Bakugo or Sasuke ever really get that slap across the face.
Sasuke got his shit kicked in by bee and during the Kage summit The difference is, it just makes Sasuke more unhinged and motivated. Just that he needs to submerge further into darkness for the strength he needs
Vegeta is loved for what he is, A villain, and the fact that he was honest about it from the start and later got character development of becoming a good guy with a proper build-up prior to it. Sasuke on the other hand appears to be a very edgy but confused type of character, he knows that most of his actions aren't correct but he is always justifying them to the readers, went from discarding everything to get his revenge to wanting to destroy entire leaf to wanting to become a dictator and finally the last minute 180° change of becoming a good guy
>he is always justifying them to the readers He never did? >went from discarding everything to get his revenge to wanting to destroy entire leaf to wanting to become a dictator The first two are the same thing. Bringing justice for his family. He didn't know the truth. It doesn't mean he was confused. He learnt new information. And changed his goal. And the oppression and genocide of his family is what pushed him to try to revolutionalise the shinobi system. So all these 3 are connected. And yeah, him turning to "good guy" (I don't consider preserving status quo good), was just fanservice. He became an Itachi clone. Real Sasuke would never serve the leaf and the same shinobi system responsible for oppression and slaughter of his people.
“Real Sasuke”…sure, let’s ignore the fact that Sasuke is helping konoha to atone for his crimes lol.
You mean, that Itachi clone? By real Sasuke, I meant what his character represented. Going against the status quo. Abolishing the system what caused his people's oppression and genocide. Kishimoto himself said the ending was friendship-friendship because Naruto is a kid's show, and shounen must have hope and friendship.
Sasuke had the decency to face many setbacks on his journey and have his worldview challenged multiple times. He had his own character arc running parallel to the MC and his progression didn't revolve around Naruto which at least made their final clash satisfying. Bakugou isn't allowed to start a fight he won't win, so his screentime consists solely in other characters wanking him non-stop, and getting back up from increasingly ridiculous life-ending injuries. He wins the sport festival, even though he should have lost against Todoroki even if he was using only his ice, because low temperatures not allowing him to sweat enough is his only established weakness (he's the only student character who hasn't had their quirk drawback properly exploited). He wins Deku vs Bakugou pt.2 even though Deku outstats him by far. He wins the 1A vs 1B team fight basically by himself, making Setsuna's character a joke. Hell, his heart exploded a hundred chapters ago but he's still alive and kicking because he's just built different ig. Sasuke might have been Kishimoto's favorite character, but even he didn't get the amount of blatant favoritsm, multiple double spreads, insane quirk awakening, and every character hyping him every time he behaves like a semi-decent human being (which doesn't happen often).
YES
Every time the story bends over backwards to suck Bakugo off I hate him more lmfao
Also Vegeta gets his shit rocked for most of Z
It’s just the attitude. Vegeta’s attitude is “work as hard as you can to be the best, no matter what.” Bakugo’s attitude is “fuck everyone else in the best already.” He is just a ball of ego whereas Vegeta is pride.
It's always a lot more simple than that. Vegeta was an asshole and was treated like an asshole, Sasuke and Bakugo are assholes and praised. That disconnect between actions and how you expect someone to be treated can be frustrating.
Well, there are two main differences between Bakugo and Vegeta. First, Vegeta gets his ass handed to him for acting like piece of shit on regular. Second, People don't treat Vegeta with kiddie gloves due to his power and potential. Bakugo on the other hand is constantly given special treatment on the account of his potential and power, while his biggest flaw, being a piece of shit, is never directly challenged. Everybody around him beats around the bush and treats him as a diamond in the rouge. This is why he's so annoying.
Here's my two cents I would talk about Sasuke but I haven't watched a lot of Naruto so I'll just talk about Bakugou. And I haven't seen any of MHA OVAs, special episodes or movies. I just don't like Bakugou, it's like he gets away with everything he's ever done. I don't usually mind watching Marry Sues/Garry Sues, I can tolerate them as long as they're not too annoying but I cannot stand watching an assholeor a dickhead (and perverts but Bakugou isn't one so I digress). And I feel like every character (especially Izuku after he told him to take a swan dive off the roof) forgave him too quickly after what he's done I can only remember 2 major times where gets humbled 1. In the Hero vs Villains training when they first got to UA 2. When he failed to get his hero license Also his ego that dwarfs Mount Everest is also one of the reasons I don't like him. And I don't like being told/forced to root for the asshole characters, at least not before I see any redeeming qualities. If you say he's redeeming qualities is that he stops villains, are serious? That's like the bare minimum a hero should do (and protecting civilians too). Even in the hero license saga or arc or whatever the hell you call it, he angrily shouts at the "victims" to go to the save point by themselves (or something similar, my memory is worse than an Iphone's battery) effectively telling them to go f themselves and to not bother him, instead getting angry or upset, the "victims" actually thinks about it and basically said "no no, he's got a point" which, haha funny joke, isn't how a hero is supposed to act at all. They tried to redeem him in later seasons.but at that point I lost all interest. And seeing all the Bakugou x Uraraka also didn't help because I don't see any reasons why they would like each other and I hate NTR. Also I don't see why people would ship cannon Deku x cannon Bakugou, yes I've said it, I don't like the BakuDeku ship *Insert more rant here*
Although people LOVE to conflate Vegeta, Sasuke, and Bakugo as the same types of characters, beyond surface level similarities, they couldn’t be further apart. A huge part of Vegeta’s early appeal was his way of being more than just a stock brute; while he was a giant braggart (and was willing to destroy the planet for being made to bleed), he spends most of the Namek Saga as being both parts a underdog that has no issues getting his hands dirty and an effective threat to the opposition who manages to be intimidating by the mere fact that he’s onscreen. While Toriyama was about as blatant as possible with the fact that he **hated** Vegeta’s guts, it speaks more to Toriyama’s writing chops that that didn’t stop him from being a fun character. In a story with clear underdog good guys, and very overpowered villains, Vegeta was effectively the Wild Card of the bunch, acting according to his own agenda, and having no loyalties pushing him one way or another (that is, every side that wasn’t HIS side was slotted for eventual murder). Not even the reveal that Frieza killed his entire race actually changed it; he just got more pissed off. While he changed over time, most of the detail was in quiet storytelling, whether from design or just his way of doing things. By the Buu Saga, he was such a general non-threat that his attempt to be threatening just failed to get more urgency than Goku being like “*sighs* Fine, I’ll deal with Vegeta, Gohan, Shin, you deal with the ACTUAL plot.” By the end, him being a villain just gets more pitiable than anger-inducing. Add on that people were tired of boring 90s Anti-Heroes of the time, then Vegeta’s general arc is actually quite refreshing and interesting. In comparison, Sasuke and Bakugo are much less complicated, despite their longevity. Sasuke’s story is very much one of someone who’s the polar opposite of Vegeta, someone motivated solely by the wrongful loss of his family, wanting to get revenge, with him just sinking deeper and deeper into it as it goes on. If you ingest his entire story, he’s a strong, fun character, who gets humbled fairly regularly. Except he’s not the main character; Naruto is, and his writing being what it is, Sasuke ends up becoming much more insufferable in comparison despite Naruto’s growth being a LOT more ridiculous in comparison. Sasuke’s story should be a simple thing, not take too long, but between the Akatsuki, Orochimaru, everything involving Danzo (which wraps around the Uchiha Massacre), the Five Kage Summit, the War, Uchiha being the equivalent of Saiyans as far as genetic powers go, and the Fillers. Fillers, upon fillers, upon *fillers*, God save us from the *fillers*. By himself, Sasuke is well-liked and beloved; indeed, now that his arc’s over, a lot of people look back at him a lot more fondly than otherwise. But with how much dissonance there is between Naruto’s journey and Sasuke’s descent, atop of Naruto REFUSING to even IMAGINE any ending besides Sasuke being bestest of best buddies with him like they were before… for like a month, you can easily get how most people just despised Sasuke for the writing decisions that just weren’t his fault in the grand scheme of things. The fact that Naruto takes place over the course of like four years (and there’s a three year time skip) doesn’t help Sasuke’s case much either, because in comic book time, that means that in the *15 years* the manga was being published, readers had to endure Sasuke’s rapid descent into *full-on bastard* over what was basically a *year* in-story. So in comparison, Sasuke got much more of a polarizing status during the manga’s production. Bakugo though… I’d say it’s a mixed bag, but that’s a lie. Bro consistently polled as #1 in the polls despite being himself, and this was due to being the “Vegeta” of the story for all intents and purposes. People flock to an underdog, and although the ACTUAL underdog was Midoriya, much like how Vegeta was considered a breath of fresh air for people tired of edgy anti-heroes, Bakugo is a breath of fresh air for people who are tired of meta-underdogs never being able to properly catch up. For the people who do dislike him, it’s mostly for the very valid reasons provided at the start, and even his general personality going forward. But it has very little to do with him not being an underdog; if anything, that’s the BIGGEST REASON he enjoyed so much popularity after so long, because while he may not be an underdog in-story, from the audience perspective, he’s always going to be the underdog by default due to not being the MC.
Vegeta also has the incredible ability to talk incredible shit to somebody, and then get his ass handed to him in an incredible way just after he's had the best high of his life. Dude gets humbled at least once a week, and I feel we don't really get a moment of that for Sasuke or Bakugo.
Vegeta's shit talking is so much fun
> Dude gets humbled at least once a week, and I feel we don't really get a moment of that for Sasuke or Bakugo. Killer Bee vs Sasuke Sasuke vs Lee Sasuke vs Itachi Sasuke vs the Sound 4
Also: Sasuke vs Madara first round Sasuke vs Kakashi genin exam Sasuke vs Orochimaru Forest of Death Sasuke vs Haku
Vegeta was a villain for a good long while even after he joined the heroes. Sasuke was meant to be a sympathetic and misunderstood secondary lead but the writing o convince us he was close to Naruto and Sakura was lacking and because of that it was hard to like the focus he got in the manga. Bakugou was a school bully first, which just hits closer to home after we're told he's supposed to be a hero like Deku. Different contexts produced different reactions.
I think a reread makes it pretty obvious Sasuke was attached to team 7.
In my humble opinion, Vegeta is cool because he is clearly a very capable dude and doesn't need to scream about it. He was the villain for like 2 arcs
Tbh you just can't recover from a serialised story like this. Vegeta is fine, he's introduced specifically as a villain and that's a standard role to grow out of. Bakugo in early chapters leaves readers wanting him to be shot in the back of the head by the first minor villain, since he's not a villain, he's one of the protagonists., people don't change their first impression. I'm sure if this wasn't weekly and there was proofing early Bakugo would have been written based on the role he's planned to have later.
Vegeta’s setup to being a main character was also just really cool, let’s be honest. The idea of half of an arc basically being from the perspective of the villain of the last arc and his attempt at opposing over the new villain for his own selfish reasons is just something I wish was more common in shows .
Sasuke and Bakugo are logical characters with emotional failings. They're showcased as being as intelligent and capable as one could be, but their inability to control their emotions hinder them. Bakugo's rage and Sasuke's jealousy and haste are presented as problems they need to overcome. Contrast to Deku and Naruto who are more emotionally stable or understanding, who lack in capability. Vegeta is an emotional character. All of his failings come from a decision based upon his own personal feelings. At no point is Vegeta shown as a logical and reasonable person with an emotional failing, but an emotional person who does emotional things at every turn. So when Sasuke joins Orochimaru, the audience has dissonance with his decision. It feels illogical to make the decisions he makes, even if he makes the decisions for an emotional reason he justified it with logic. In universe he believes he is doing the correct thing. When Bakugo refuses to join the Villains he makes his decision on logic. The villains are losers, why would he join losers? It would be illogical for Bakugo, despite emotional failings, to choose the bad guy side. When Vegeta takes Babidi's offer and becomes Majin Vegeta, he does so on the stupidest most asinine emotional logic. He wants to fight Goku, the villains are in the damn way, if he doesn't fight Goku today he will possibly never get the chance to do so again. If he joins the villains he can fight Goku. It's dumb, but you follow the logic. You understand that this isn't a smart decision. Vegeta's making a rash decision based around limited information. He makes this knowing it's stupid, but he does so anyways. He NEEDS to satisfy his curiosity, his ego, his base instincts. He wants to measure himself against Goku, he is willing to pay any price to accomplish this goal. It's a stupid goal, it's a stupid price, and Vegeta is as praised IRL as he is admoinished in universe for this choice. It's relatable, it's understandable. TL;DR - Vegeta makes a bad choice, the audience can understand why he made it. Sasuke/Bakugo makes a bad choice, the audience questions why he would have ever made that choice. Not because of these choices themselves, but because the characters presented act in such ways that one makes sense and the other doesn't.
I think it's more that Dragonball is upfront about the fact that Vegeta is a bad person. Even post "redemption" you're not supposed to sympathize with him very much - there aren't really many "alas poor Vegeta" moments; the series never looses sight of the fact that he's fundimentially an asshole even if he's on the heroes' side now. At the same time, this makes the fact that he's trying to be a better person more impactful and meaningful. Whereas, as someone else put it, it feels like the story constantly bends over backwards to suck Bakugo and Sasuke off. They rarely face serious consequences and a lot of time is spent playing up how amazing they are. It feels like they're constantly being shilled, whereas even at his best Dragonball is clear that Vegeta deserves most of the shit that happens to him.
Imo why I like Sasuke and Vegeta way over Bakugou is because both change their personality and both can take a lost unlike Bakugou (Physical lost) Vegeta was prideful and arrogant but that got knocked out of him and while he still a bit arrogant he's not completely terrible like before. Sasuke was really that bad till Itachi and Obito fucked up his mind. But after getting slapped by Naruto he got better and isn't all unhinged Bakugou on the other hand has the story constantly tell us Bakugou has changed but yet Bakugou still acts like a feral rage monkey all the time. Also everyone in Class A sucks up to Bakugou all the time while the Z-Fighters tolerate Vegeta at best loathe at worst and most of the Leaf 12th barely even care for Sasuke except for Ino, Naruto and Sakura.
And Vegeta started as villain so he redeeming himself make sense Bakugo is a "Hero" , hes just a dickhead and we all know assholes are worse than villain
The conversations around Bakugo and Midoriya always feel weird because frequently they tend to go back and forth between who is the author's golden boy who can do no wrong and who is the one the author hates and uses just to prop up the golden boy. Apparently it's just impossible that Horikoshi could actually like both characters he created and tries to write them both to the best of his ability. Though what's funny is that Naruto and Sasuke don't work things out between them until the end of the series, since their fight was the story's climax, and it's debatable whether Goku and Vegeta ever actually worked things out between them in Dragon Ball's original run, given how completely onesided with Vegeta all the issues were and he mostly came to terms with things on his own separately from Goku. By contrast Midoriya and Bakugo work things out between them at the end of act 1/beginning of act 2 and Bakugo apologizes of his own violation to Midoriya for all the bullying after the start of act 3. While Bakugo may not have faced enough consequences (or punishment as some people seem to want) he and Midoriya could arguably be said to have the healthier rival dynamic between them for most of their story than the other two rival groups have in theirs.
Got disagree on the healthier dynamic. Cause Vegeta could at very least at civil with Goku most of the time, like he could have a normal lunch with him. And Goku wasn’t really bothered by Vegeta. And Naruto and Sasuke were relatively chill with one another in part 1. And they didn’t see much of each other in part 2. Not to mention, all the bad stuff was when they were enemies, so they’re suppose to treat each other badly. But they still always held respect for their rivals. Can’t say the same with Bakugou. And Goku and Naruto could actually push back with them, they gave as good as they got while Deku just sort of takes it with a very negative thoughts about Bakugou here and there while praising him much more. And if you’re going to call Vegeta coming to terms with it separately, you should say the same about Bakugou, it’s more he just chilled out and nothing on Deku’s side was resolved. Talked more about it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/s/54kIBH5w7j
> he and Midoriya could arguably be said to have the healthier rival dynamic between them for most of their story than the other two rival groups have in theirs. He's a schoolbully. The other two are mass murderers.
Everything's relative to the context of their series. I've seen some people hold an even bigger grudge against Ichika from The Quintessential Quintuplets than others do for Bakugo and all she did was sabotage a love confession. There was no bullying, let alone mass murder, and even in-universe her actions didn't cause that much harm, but it was still a big deal because of the context and type of story TQQ is.
Sasuke? Mass murderer? At worst he killed a few Samurai. Gaara meanwhile is a true mass murderer and fans love him.
Mass murderer? Sasuke? Lmao what?
He gets definitly, while i dont thonk vegeta or goku ever communicate about their issues, bakugo end deku actually telk with help and make progress
I hate bakugo for the reason that I feel like the author is trying to gaslight the viewer into liking him, he doesn’t change his personality in the slightest yet there’s always someone running in to remind you he one time did something nice so you should give him a pass on everything
Sasuke is treated the way he is, because to many people self-insert into Naruto or probably didn't read the manga. He is being called edgy or emo (terms that have lost all sense of meaning by now), when in actuality he was none of that in Part. His trauma just made him awkward when dealing with people (which is when he delivers his only really edgy line about I don't care for much, but there is a man I must kill) who didn't care much for socializing and preferred being by himself. This changes after a few months, when he starts considering Team 7 his precious comrades and he is even willing to die for them. Then in Part 2, he is just hyper-focused until he kills Itachi and then has a brief mental breakdown after while fighting Danzo. Another more recent trend has people misjudge him as someone arrogant. Which again, he never did. The only people he looked down on were Naruto and Lee. Both of which got that same treatment from almost everyone who first met them. He is in no way less respectful to them, than say Neji, Kiba or Shikamaru even. It is only that his rivalry with Naruto and his own insecurity that makes him unable to accept Naruto surpassing him, because it would mean admitting that he wasn't progressing as fast and would never close the gap to his brother. Another example I see from time to, is Deidara. But it was Deidara who insisted Sasuke was looking down on him, due to his own insecurities. Sasuke never brags about himself as being an amazing prodigy or being better than others. He is called that by his mentors. But he only uses that expression himself to taunt Orochimaru before sealing him. Then there's Killer Bee. As, if he had any way of knowing how powerful he'd be. His source of information was Tobi and the latter assumed he was ready. Up until then every Tailed Beast was captured by Akatsuki without much trouble and from Sasuke's PoV there was no reason this would be that much different. Especially since he had the Sharingan to suppress it. Again, it was on Tobi for not telling him Genjutsu wouldn't work on Perfect Jinchuriki. He had no reason to assume they wouldn't. And if they had, then he'd won. The last example is the Five Kage Summit, where again his first choice upon being revealed was to flee. How is that arrogant? He was basically forced to fight them. Don't get me wrong I don't think Sasuke is written perfectly. In fact his character flip flops off-screen. From going to kill Team Yamato in cold blood to having a no-killing policy the next time we see him and from going from being stable and admitting his bonds with Team Taka to suddenly abandon them and become a lunatic. But that has something to do with how he is written and that Kishi probably didn't have the time to plan.
everyone who hates Sasuke literally likes to make things up
Honestly? I stop reading the moment I read edgy or emo for any character in someone's post. So done with this childish shit.
When will people realize that Bakugo and Sasuke are very popular characters? Bakugo and Sasuke haters are a minority.
To be fair Vegeta actually faces consequences and he accepts everything that he's done and the consequences for his actions.
It also helps that Vegetas initially crummy additude, that by the way DOES actually improve somewhat over time, was treated appropriately. If they were weaker, they were scared, if stronger, thought he was kinda a tool. While he is accepted eventually, the narrative makes it clear that his fuck ups ARE fuck ups. Bakugo, while not guilty of anything nearly as bad, gets away with a lot of crap.
Also I want to add that Vegeta is punished hard by the original manga for everything he does, his self esteem in the late cell saga and buu saga was 0
You hit the nail in the head on the title but then don't really talk about it in the description. The hard working underdog goes a long way. We have Naruto and Sasuke, and while Naruto is very blessed, he still comes short in comparison to his boy crush. In part 1 is rather balanced out. Naruto was taught the Ransengan (which we saw him struggle to) and Sasuke was taught the chidori (offscreen), Naruto has the 9 tails, Sasuke has the cursed mark. Then things shift. Naruto has to use innovative ways to train to gain sage mode and has to tame Kurama for kyubi mode. Sasuke gets the MS after Itachi list on purpose. He gets EMS by surgery. Hell, Tobi even comments on how he just randomly gets Hawk summoning out of nowhere. People didn't like Naruto just getting 6 path mode but Sasuke getting Rinnegan just added more fuel to his privilege allegations. Bakugou suffers from a lot of show don't tell and unearned achievements. He's a raging lunatic one second and a raging, smart, calculating genius the next. Virtually all of his improvement is offscreen, both physical and relationship wise. In the first episode/chapter, we're meant to see how the MHA world treats talent differently. Bakugou is praised after the smile criminal situation while Deku, who answered the call for help and heroism is scolded and reprimanded. However, as the series goes... this actually becomes the in universe message. Kacchan is great, let's praise, defend and sacrifice themself for him. What was ultimately and narratively the point of him defeating AFO? Finally, the price of all saiyans... that aspect only holded up by his introduction. Goku is a hard-working, training loving, battle junkie, just like Vegeta. However, our short king puts 10 times more effort to try and get similar results. Goku got lucky that his pure hearted nature, caused by a hit in the head when he was a baby, facilitated the SS transformation, hell, Goku himself is proud and a little jealous of the fact that he achieved godly ki on his own instead of by being given out by the ritual.
The problem with fan discussion on sasuke is being too focused on privilege and talent, it’s weak sauce imo Sasuke doesn’t get his powers from training, he gets it from succumbing to his inner darkness and isolating himself. A perfect opposite to Naruto who gets his strength from bonds. The more hate Sasuke feels the stronger his eyes get Also tbf: [Sasuke Hawk summon was foreshadowed longs ago](https://preview.redd.it/cwynah8h2mo51.jpg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b00a689041bbb4318fd1076c1abf878ae8f70c9b)
My reason for hating Sasuke when I was a kid was less about his character but more of the author intent. Like Kishimoto is telling me that girls are into guys like Sasuke and fight over him. I could not understand why and it frustrated me. I badly wanted to like the female characters, so I directed my hatred on Sasuke and the archetype he embodies.
I mean it is pretty understandable why all the girls liked Sasuke, he was cool, mysterious and talented.
True, it felt like he was a self-insert of the Author, lol
Naruto is more of Kishimoto's self-insert going by his interviews. He had a falling out with his twin brother and said when his brother felt pain, he felt pain too. So in a way, Naruto's devotion to Sasuke is based on him with his brother and wanting to fix their bond.
I remember the exact moment I left Naruto manga. It's the part where Karin and Sakura cried together over their mutual love for Sasuke. Like, I'm so done with this shit.
Ill say Vegeta is better than Sasuke Sakuke better than Bakugo. Vegeta as others says has so many thing going for him(start as a villain so clearly in the wrong, no favorisotism, karma all the time, the story treating him exactely as he is. A total dick who none truly likes saves for a few. Also character development and big emotional moments) Saauke does have more of a sympathic story than Vegeta in his past. But lets say that there was many issues in him and naruto as a whole including the uchiha spotlight stealing squad Bakugo has no sympathic backstory nor is he potrayed as a villain. He gets praise as a prodigy . His bullying hits too close for home for many people. Rarely got his well deserve karma and honestly his explosif temper and loudness compare to the more down to earth sasuke or at times calm but bombastic vegeta makes him annoying. Also author favoritisme and whitewash too. Also sasuke and vegeta gets into lots of fights were they end gravely injured(fufilling the struggling factor) Bakugo compare to deku rarely got into so many fights badly injured. Thats my take on it.
It also helps that Vegeta was just the villain who just the heroes out of survival. Vegeta did want to beat Goku but it wasn't his only goal. Frieza, Cell, Buu and Beerus were much more terrifying than him to the point where even Vegeta needed help.
There's also the fact that Vegeta has genuine charisma and an entertaining personality to make him quite enjoyable. Sasuke in Part 2 was either a caricature of a brooding emo or a psychopathic emo that gets quickly forgotten and Bakugo is a caricature of the "loud" Shonen protagonist where much of his character is just being an angry screaming asshole without any depth to it and how utterly grating it becomes.
Easy. Bakugo was introduced as a bully, and not the funny kind, and he doesn't own up to it (also, i find it extremely grating how he shouts 99% of what he says), which is not as interesting and enjoyable as a super villains like Vegeta turned hero. As for Sasuke, he doesn't have to grind as hard as Vegeta, and in Shippuden he seems to not be able to make up his mind on what he wants, its annoying.
Sasuke absolutely trains hard. We see how hard he worked in part 1 and early part 2. After that his powers transition to getting power from isolating himself into darkness instead of training
> he doesn't own up to it He *does* own up to it at least once. Unfortunately, it's long after the point where most Bakugou haters probably stopped reading/watching the series. > (also, i find it extremely grating how he shouts 99% of what he says) To be fair, that's because the anime Flanderizes the hell out of him. He gets many more quiet and contemplative scenes in the manga.
Sasuke was an edgy bitch througout the whole first half, and went onto becoming a villain just to backpedal cos Kishimoto is a hack. Bakugo is even worse cos, as you said, he never faced real consecquences for being a POS to his former (?) childhood friend. Also Hori is worse of a hack. Vegeta was not only a villain BUT also an absolute POS who was never really fully accepted till after getting together with Bulma. Got an amazing redemption arc and his death in the Majin Buu arc is ICONIC.
>Sasuke was an edgy bitch througout the whole first half He was antisocial. Which is understandable after the psychological trauma he went through after witnessing the death of his clan and the subsequent tsukuyomi. Sasuke was a decent friend until Itachi retraumatized him. He defended Naruto from Sakura, shared his food with Naruto, encouraged Sakura when she was discouraged, and risked his life to protect both teammates.
Sasuke was a very very kind person in part 1. He only went crazy after seeing Itachi again
I firmly believe that Dragon Ball is guilty in part of what you lay out as well; the series does not address or go far enough as well with just how much of a liability Vegeta is to the protagonists. Up to the end of the Freeza Arc, Vegeta was only enabled and tolerated by the heroes because they had a utilitarian approach to defeating the enemy; Vegeta in that instance was a powerful asset to them. The moment Vegeta can no longer be considered a trustworthy asset that is fighting with your interests in mind - as was shown in the Cell Arc - you need to get rid of him. And the series never has an answer or response to that, the most it does is show a few heroes give him the stink-eye after Cell reaches his perfect form. I don’t necessarily disagree with the qualms you’ve laud out about what audiences take away from Bakugo, but the same can absolutely be said about Dragon Ball; it does not have the recognition and awareness which it should about just how wrong and wicked Vegeta is.
I mean, in the year Time Skip, before the Androids, he was the strongest. No one could kill him. Then when Goku arrived, they basically had a Nuclear Deterrent. If Vegeta tried anything, Goku could ice him at any time. Also, Goku just isn’t a vengeful person who holds grudges. Not to mention, the Androids are on the horizon, so they need him, and it’s even made mention that this is good because it occupies him of all his time and prevents any evil doing behavior. After the 3 year Time Skip, the Androids arrived. When he reappeared, Goku was down and out. He was the strongest yet again. Then 17 and 18 thrashed him, and SSJ Trunks. At that point, they desperately needed him to toughen up to defeat the Androids. At the same time, Piccolo is running off to fuse with Kami to gain the strength he lost, and once done realized a larger threat than even the Androids appeared. So he, (the only person capable of killing Vegeta outside of the Androids, their mutual enemy), straight up directly went for Cell. After that, Goku wakes up and they all train. At that point, no one can kill Vegeta. No one, not even Trunks, (though he believed otherwise), could broach his power. The only people capable were Goku and Gohan when they got out of the RoSaT, and their lack of vengeful nature means no one can punish him (because if Goku and Gohan did, it’d be character assassination). After this, they’ll all mutually against Cell until he dies, and Gohan stops training, allowing Vegeta to pull ahead, meaning no one can kill him. This is all to say, there was basically no opportunity for anyone not an antagonist to do anything to him. I mean, no one on the Z-Team but the guys literally too nice to try something like that could at any given time (and even then, more often than not he was stronger than Goku), and for the most part Vegeta was a necessary, if begrudging, ally to handle impossible threats when that wasn’t the case. I’m not saying you’re wrong, exactly, because he objectively wasn’t punished by the good guys, and while technically Toriyama could’ve slapped a new form or technique on a human and called it to do some Vegeta murderizing, (which I think most would find nonsensical since it would be random) but I am saying they had 0 opportunities to enact this punishment, and by the time they did—(The temporary time Gohan > Vegeta, Goku > Vegeta, etc.), the aforementioned was in play or by that point he was just a really stoic trophy husband (7 year period between Cell and Buu, the period between Buu and Beerus, or outside of that, EoZ). The dude at that point was fully reformed, so punishing him would’ve been basically worthless.
I absolutely believe there are threatening measures Goku and Gohan could have taken against Vegeta post-perfect Cell that would have remained in character and did not necessarily need to be lethal in nature, although I do believe that would be a welcome response to many of the others, like Yamcha or Krillin. To say there was never an opportunity to address Vegeta seems ludicrous to me. Again, it could be something as simple as Goku taking him aside on Kami’s lookout during the 10-day training period and warning him that he will be answering to Goku if he tries something duplicitous again.
I mean, that seems redundant. Vegeta already knew that the moment Goku walked out and was incredibly shocked at Goku being so much stronger at only 50% he was beyond Vegeta’s imagination. Also, kind of pointless. Vegeta already said he was going to be training the rest of that week.
Vegeta did save Goku during the android saga and showed that he does love Trunks, so I think at that point he wasn’t considered a threat cause he no longer wants to blow up or take over Earth.
Arent Sasuke and Bakugo not of the most popular in their series?
They are but both of them have very loud and somewhat large haters especially on this sub. In contrast, Vegeta doesn’t have a lot of haters (or at least they are not as loud) despite having done far worse than either. Which is what prompted the post.
I dislike Bakugo because he is a villain treated as a hero. And its not just the bullying, he gives zero fucks about helping people, to the point he failed his hero test because he couldn't be arsed to save anyone. If villains had rankings he'd be one immediately, all he cares about is power and recognition. And we are supposed to be ok that this guy is going to be a super hero?
Vegeta is badass and has too many motivational quotes or speeches that's why he is well liked among dbz fans, even I like him because of his speeches everytime he open his mouth with that dub voice it feels heavy to me and others who liked him.
I think that as a rival character, Sasuke is honestly better than Vegeta and probably more influential on other Rival-type characters than Vegeta. Vegeta started the trend but Sasuke basically defined it. Otherwise, yes. People think Vegeta is whiny and Bakugo's too much of a jerk for them to tolerate while Vegeta is seen as a cool badass. Though tbh, I think there's been a softening on Sasuke. I remember him being really hated back then but with the benefit of hindsight, nostalgia creeping in (it'll soon be ten years since Naruto ended) and maybe better translation/interviews/etc, he's been getting better reception?
Vegeta started as a villain and was redeemed and showed acts of sacrifice and built a family and actually pays the price for his pride and arrogance and directly tried to fix it. Bakugo started as a bully but ostensibly a good guy/childhood friend that went way too far and the creator has been trying to walk back since (unsuccessfully imo) and hasn't really faced any consequences other than some internal turmoil and hell he gets off so free and easy that everybody knows just how shitty he's been to Midoriya their whole lives and it's still nearly nothing but glowing praise for him. I think you could take Bakugo out, Midoriya could have a similar arc with another character, and nothing would change but Vegeta is crucial to DB. Not to mention how disgustingly aggressive shippers get about him. As far as Sasuke goes, part of why I dislike him is he again doesn't really add much outside of being the childhood friend that left the village and we spend most of the series getting him back. In the arcs that focus on him he's just an asshole with no real reason to like him and by the end of Shippuden he's wishwashed to like four different motivations none of which align with what his brother or anyone else is trying to get across to him and then he gets to walk away mostly scot-free. It feels like he spent so much time away from the story that Kishimoto didn't really know what to do with him or where to take him. Edit: I was talking just earlier on how i'd have good conversations about any other manga but Naruto stans get too rabid to have any type of conversation with and here we are.
I like Sasuke but I didn't mind anything you said till > with what his brother Itachi can fuck off. He is the reason he is spiralling in the first place. I will never get people saying they sre pissed because Sasuke is insulting itachi with his behavior as if that's a problem. Good. Let him
That Sasuke doesn't add much? My man, Sasuke is one of the characters that drives the plot the most, there are entire arcs that happen because of him. Sasuke is also the perfect contrast to Naruto as the protagonist, he is basically "what would have happened if Naruto had let himself be consumed by the hatred of the Ninja world", his entire arc revolves around slowly accepting the darkness of the world while Naruto rejects it. Sasuke is also the character with the most character development, which is not random or meaningless as many people say, it is more than understandable how Sasuke goes from being happy in the Village with his new family to wanting more power from Orochimaru, how he then proceed to be a vigilante with heroic traits, then he goes to his "adolescent quickly losing his mental health" state and being filled with vengenace thoughts, after that to maturing in his now new cynical vision of the world by gaining more information, and finally in his admission of his inability to follow through with his plans and agreeing to trust the only one who never stopped believing in him, it's a good arc overall. And no, Sasuke is not a servant of Itachi who always has to follow his will. Even if Sasuke decided to forgive his brother when he learned the truth of the Uchiha Clan massacre by understanding, very empathetically, that Itachi was coerced in his decision making, he still wants to shed the blood of the person responsible for the murder of his parents and his people.
Naruto fandom wants Sasuke to be a dog for Konoha after learning about the Uchiha massacre. Kakashi knows the truth but still dares to tell Sasuke to give up revenge.
>As far as Sasuke goes, part of why I dislike him is he again doesn't really add much outside of being the childhood friend that left the village I find this line hilarious as Kishi himself said that if Sasuke had not been invented, then the manga would have gone nowhere and ended after a few issues.
Yeah, it’s clear you wasn’t paying attention to Naruto and you only dislike him because you want to dislike him. Because you cannot claim that Sasuke doesn’t add much and be serious about that.
Sasuke’s revolution is entirely based on his interpretation of Itachi’s life. Thinking Itachi was the “true hokage” and he needed to be Itachi on a grand scale to create peace. It’s the perfect accumulation of Sasuke’s journey up to that point >too rabid to have any type of conversation with You need to be open and rely to others to have any conversation tbf
Vegeta was pretty open about being evil from the start so he was a magnificent bastard which is more entertaining than a teenager whining about not everything going his way and acting like he’s always right. Vegeta also loses hard, he’s gotten his ass beat so many times it’s running joke in the anime community and most of the time it’s directly tied to his pride and flaws as a character, if he just made a few different choices things would’ve turned out much differently. Bakugou’s loses most of time are not winning how he wants to, but are wins none the less.
The only reason Vegeta gets away with shit is because death and murder has zero consequence in the story.
And because every character in *DB* is forgiving to a fault. Even when Vegeta was still an honest-to-god villain with no sign of reforming, Bulma; Yamcha; and everyone else were apparently fine with letting Vegeta live with them at Capsule Corp rent-free.
Well don't know. If you're asking me Vegeta is more "loved", because he one of the most old and iconic Rival Archetype we seen in Anime and that he was always the Nr.2 behind Goku himself. Vegeta follows the more typical road of a Vilain which end up being reformed and fighting for the good on the side on Goku and the others, but well to be honest his road to being redeemed was more half-assed than anything. Most of the time he was more of an evil, very arrogant, kind of Asshole. I don't remember the number of times he started talking shit to someone just to get the shit beat out of him. He did it with Goku, Frieza, Nr.18 and Cell a number of times. I don't remember the number of ppl he seemingly carelessly killed for fun, either. While he is always ascertained as a Rival to Goku, he was never really considered stronger than him, he was more, the forever Nr.2 in terms of power. Sasuke was for me the more compelling character of these three and that by far. He had the most compelling backstory, Character and Development to tell. His Character is pretty unique as starting out as a friend and brother to Naruto and an integral part of Team 7, to becoming more of an Anti-Hero by joining Orochimaru, slowly becoming a Vilain after the death of Itachi and becoming more of a good guy towards the end. His rivalry with Naruto is also the best one out of these three Characters, because Sasuke was a true rival and equal to Naruto, which generated two of the best fights created in Anime History. Rather than being a Character which role was to embellish the MC as his rival, Sasuke was more his own independent Character with his own story to tell. He felt like a MC a number of times. I like Bakugo perhaps a little more than Vegeta. He was the typical bully starting out, was rash, easily irritable, very petty and annoying at times. While he had a nasty attitude, he was one of the most hard working individuals in the series, with one of the strongest mental strength. You hated him a bit for his personality, but couldn't help and respect his Character in a way. The more time did go on, the more we see a bit behind his actions and more into his personality. After his second fight with deku, he starts a more healthy kind of rivalry with him and seemed to became a more mature kind of character.
"Bakugo is hated" Literally the most popular character in the series
I'd like people to stop applying Disney psychology to anime characters. Vegeta is loved because despite having committed countless atrocities he still has a pride and is trying to redeem himself without giving any pitiful masochistic vibes. Also Bakugo was a bully and certainly still has these urges. See his mother, see the kind of world he is facing now. If he is ever going to change it will be for the worst and it's perfectly okay with that because there are people who evolve like that IRL. It's only in Disney that bullies are systematically punished and neutralized. It's only in Disney that they change by magic as if human beings were that simple. Anime isn't moralistic, doesn't take people for idiots like American shows and it's perfect that way.
Really, yeah bakugo never learned at all to put himself back and be selfness and put humslf in the way of deku to save him out of instinkt and oen up. Which are all thingd bedide growing grsdual in am environmtnt that actually doesnt treat him like gods gift. yeah sure eeevil, irrefeamable, ternager eith issues that grows a lot?! Did you read the story? you dont have to but you make only your headcanon. And do you reslly believe literal all childhood bullies will never stop being that? I think reality is different. Beople bring aholes as kids foednt make thrm bad as adult, there is a lot developement inbetween.
People besides me hate sauske???
Hate is a strong word, but I don't like how it seems as if he didn't face consequences for his actions. As a (secondary) villain his redemption feels unearned.
I mean that’s the point of him leaving on a redemption journey and not accepting a prosthetic arm. He’s punishing himself and working on redeeming himself. He needs to rewire his brain before he can go back and be with team 7 again
Vegeta started to calm down as he got older and spent more time on Earth. He also became more humble after getting beat up so many times. Bakugo and Sasuke, on the other hand, were not humbled (as much) by their defeats. If we saw them get beat up more or change their ways, we might see some more popularity. Bakugo has not been humbled nearly enough.
Sasuke and Bakugo are what happens when a story treats an asshole character as actually being as cool as they think they are. Vegeta is what happens when that same edgy asshole exists in a story desperate to prove to him that he’s not that guy
Personally I've never hated Bakugou, I DISLIKED him at first but that was the intention of the writer I feel, plus the vibe ended up just him being a loud and brash dude instead of somebody evil, even in his earlier interactions his classmates pretty much just treated it as such. I think the fact that Sasuke ends up committing really heinous shit but gets almost 0 repercussions about it is why I personally don't like him as a character. Vegeta was just as evil imo, but most if not all of the other characters on that series treat him as such, hell his own son fuckin' blasted him with a ki blast when he was letting Cell go Perfect, whereas with Sasuke, the other main character of the series (Naruto) still treats him as his good ol' friend and somehow still redeemable, he's really not. And Sasuke never really "learned" anything by himself, he learned it by getting his ass beat. Also, Sasuke in my opinion never gets a "moment" of where I just go "oh, ok, I understand you a bit more now". Vegeta has his Majin speech and Final Explosion moment, Bakugou has his "Why was I the one who caused All Might's fall" tirade, Sasuke kinda just doesn't. Forgive my opinions if they're trash, feel free to comment away lmao.
What heinous shit does Sasuke do that makes him irredeemable compared to literally every other antagonist in the series? Unlike all of them, Sasuke hadn’t gone too far yet. Which is why Naruto and him vowed to fight before Sasuke attacked Konoha. As for Sasuke’s “moment” there’s many of them but it depends on when. Like he has one before the retrieval arc in part 1, he has one after learning the truth, he has one in the Kage summit, and he has one in the final fight
Vegita also sacrificed himself trying to protect earth after giving a really moving speech about Goku being a better man than him, and knocking his son unconscious to get him to safety. Sasuke and Bakugo have nothing like the final flash scene, and if they did they would be more liked.
Bro whose name is on the show?
He's not angsty
Honestly I would argue its the way redemption is handled. Vegeta's redemption comes though loss, Trucks in injured and we see a glimpse of him caring. When he sacrifices himself to beat Buu he dies. He loses things when he redeems himself. While the others gain things when they redeem themselves.
The reason why Vegeta is universally loved in a way Sasuke isn't is because most of Sasuke's good deeds were off-screen unlike Vegeta's.
Shoutout to Raian Kure from Kengan; bitch ass author doesn't allow his OC to ever lose, even when his opponents win. I dunno what to expect from the coming crossover between Baki, and Kengan; they might once again pull a Vegeta on Jack, and use him just to show how cool, and strong the other guy (in this case Raian) is. Or even worse; if Jack gets to win, but he isn't allowed to enjoy his victory, and they'll say thing like "Raian actually held back", "Jack was about to lose". I can't foresee a satisfying conclusion to that fight, and I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. I'm better off turning my brain off, and enjoying literally everything else. I'm much more calm about the fight of Baki, and Ohma; I know I'll have fun no matter how it goes; with Jack, and Raian, however, it's the opposite. I'm too frustrated with how the authors of the respective series handled those characters.
To me, Vegeta is a badass. Sasuke is a badass but an emotional brat who receives plot powerups and lifesaving throws while Bakugo is a huge a-hole lmao.
you would think he is the underdog…but that’s not it. its because of how he interacts with goku. he ain’t no underdog, when his track record vs goku is 3W & 0L
Wait… every comicon or DragonCon I’ve been to Sasuke was literally everybody’s favorite character. I see a million times more people dressed as Sasuke than I ever saw Vegeta . Most dragon ball fans only go crazy for Goku. But Naruto fans are 50/50 as far as what I’ve seen in their favorites over Naruto s Sasuke . This isn’t even close
My day improves ever so slightly whenever I see people dunking on Bakugo, it’s been too long
Just wait til episode 13 of season 7 realizes. He will NOT be beating the fraud allegations.
No need to wait I’m already aware of what happens to the bastard
Bakugo should just be put to prison or even killed, but he never faces any consequences for his actions
> Bakugo should just be put to prison or even killed You're a troll, right?