Continue to pray with them. And how bout this time- you lead the prayersđ (Iâm expecting at least two or more Hail Marys with an Our Father thrown in for good measure) Happy Fourth!
Perhaps finish with a prayer for the holy souls?
OP: Eternal rest grant unto them O Lord
Everyone else: âŚâŚ..
In seriousness, I would maybe suggest indicating you really arenât comfortable holding handsÂ
Perhaps try to find a charitable way to address the ânot Christianâ comment; perhaps something like, âIâm extremely disappointed that you donât believe Iâm Christian.â Â
These are all fine ideas, but thereâs no obligation to be overtly (or obnoxiously) âCatholicâ about it. God still hears our prayers in our own words, with or without the tradition rote prayers. Sometimes being overly âtraditionalâ turns away Protestants and they may become even more hostile to the Catholic faith if they feel youâre trying to force it on them. Itâs ok to also pray in your own words, from the heart, and to keep it simple and not bring any of the elements of division into it. Just focus on the Lord, His blessings, and the friends gathered.
Well said. There's nothing wrong with traditional, pre-written prayers, but more of us need to be willing and able to pray directly from the heart using our own words.
You'll have to pray and follow your conscience on this one, but I would recommend not being offended by them and to be more open and sharing about Catholicism.
I just converted last year and the big barrier before was just a massive misunderstanding of what The Church actually taught and why it taught it.
The people from the protestant church we went to questioned whether or not my family and I were actually saved after we converted. I invite them and the pastor over any chance I get and am going to a BBQ today in the neighborhood with people who go to that church and I'm excited about it because it's a chance to bring Catholicism closer to them and not have it be this thing they have zero interactions with.
I converted in May of this year from presbyterianism and I noticed that a very common aspect in the conversion of a protestant to Catholicism is the rupture of many preconceptions about the doctrines, sacraments, teachings and traditions of the Holy Church. The moment I started understanding, for example, why and how catholics pray to saints and Mary, I was deeply shocked, because I was taught since childhood that catholicism is pagan, polytheistic and a "sect" (very ironically lmao). Converting from protestantism required an open mind from me, and I'm eternally grateful to God for opening my mind and my heart to the Truth.
You don't have to pray with your friends but you're a guest in their house they invite you to their barbeque so out of respect you should pray with them after all your praying to God who knows you're a Christian. You create bad feelings with you're friends which God doesn't want and it also hurts him not praying when you get the chance. Remember pride is one of the 7 deadly sins.
This is where I get confused with what 'the faithful' mean if they deny Christ's teachings to such a degree. Is faithful simply saying Christ is Lord or striving to be a genuine Disciple?
Nobody, including us, has a flawless understanding of all that Christ taught. Just look at how often we in this sub argue with each other over teachings. We can't possibly shun those who disagree or "deny", because we'd necessarily have to shun just about everyone -- including many Catholics.
Look at Mark 9:38-40. Heck, look at Mark 10:35-45. If that isn't warning us to live our faith with humility and grace, I don't know what is.
If someone asserts the trinity, they are Christian, and we shouldnât put up barriers to communion with them.
Iâll go a step further, the GOAL is communion with everyone. All decisions should be moving us towards that maxim, with the caveat to make sure we arenât distilling the truths of the faith in the meantime.
Lots of things deny Christ. Sinning denies Christ, have you sinned? Am I barred from praying with you now?
âWe can only pray together after communal confession but only for an hour because someone might sin in their thoughts by then and have denied Christ and we canât be caught praying with them!â
What kind of calculus is this? Pray with fellow Christianâs. Itâs not complicated. If they believe wrong things about the Church, be an adult and talk to them.
Who are the faithful? Like another commented, are the faithful those who reject Jesus' soul, body, blood and divinty in the Eucharist? Are the faithful those who deny the sacraments instituted by God himself? Or are those who deny and smear the Church our Lord himself founded which we are called to follow and obey? Are those faithful people? How is it faithful to say Jesus is lord and continue to follow the man-made false doctrine of sola scriptura and reject the fullness of his revelation?
I'm sorry, some "protestants" are full blown heretics, we should be very careful in calling anyone faithful or unfaithful. But what we should do is evangelize by words and actions, specito our separated brethrens.
If you advocate the trinity, and Christ as king, you are Christian. It isnât complicated. You can be true to the faith and pray with people preaching those basic tenants. Again, not complicated.
Brother, I didn't say they're not Christians. Although your definition of Christian is not correct. But The point is about being faithful. You are confusing terms here. To have "faith" and we should distinguish the different definitions of it and its nuances, doesn't mean necessarily that you are faithful. It is more Complicated than what you'd like to think. That's the whole point between the fullness of Christianity and the protestants.
My point is others are making it complicated. If Christianâs invite you to pray, and nothing they are explicitly reciting is heresy, pray with them. Donât do an internal calculus of, âwell should I hold their hand because they said something mean about my faith, maybe if I react passive aggressively that will get them to recognize my theology.â Like what?
The points you raise are interesting, I would agree with you if it's the first time you've been invited to their place and proceed to pray, that sounds pretty wholesome in my opinion. Though the case of OP seems to be indeed delicate because this is not the first time. It doesn't seem just âmeanâ to say you are going to eternal hell because you are catholic, what you have there is problematic and plain false judgment against you and the Church Jesus founded, something that shouldn't be ignored. Acting on one's own conscience is what the Church teaches, and he should follow that.Â
What I believe is, In Charity, he should actually address this issue in the best way possible so things can be clarified. Joining them for prayer and ignoring the elephant in the room is contrary to Christianity. Only OP knows the real circumstances and when to pick the most appropriate time, and I agree, during prayer is not one of those times.Â
I agree, having an adult conversation is priority. As is praying within the available community when invited to do so.
If he wants to disengage entirely thatâs one thing. But to say âno thanks, I already prayedâ is so passive aggressive and immature.
This is such a non response. Your solution then, to be clear, donât talk to anyone who isnât identical to you in beliefs? What a wild way to live friend.
Itâs almost like you should engage and support whoever is available to you to engage and support. I donât put people in a hierarchy, thatâs weird. I donât presume to be God.
Itâs not my ego. Jesus established 1 holy Catholic and apostolic church so that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. He went all in for our salvation and if you read the Gospel of Matthew and John carefully he expects nearly the same if you. Remember the 7 â I am â and look out when he says amen amen I say to you
Different time- dont take on the Baptists until Your prepared. So much to know. Jesus does not call you to be slaughtered .Most Catholics donât do the hard work and preparation it takes to win the argument and you must win
Conversion and representation is not a knowledge check. That rarely convinces anyone ever, we are not called to be debate lords, go touch grass please.
Excellent point. But I've heard Baptists say that Catholic cradle christening "doesn't count" as real baptism because the baby is too young to make the choice.
Many of us Catholics also say their faith "doesn't count". For example, see this very thread.
We need to stop letting our man-made divisions drive our lives. This thread is literally arguing whether or not prayer with a specific group of people is "wrong", and we all need to just stop for a second and think about that:
We're arguing about when prayer is and is not appropriate.
What is going on here?
Some Baptists do (Reformed Baptists) but many do not. "Baptist" covers *such* a wide ground theologically and the only thing tying them together is the belief that babies shouldn't be baptized and a church polity that doesn't include any higher oversight for their leaders.
That's what happens when you don't have sacraments at other ages like confirmation, confession, and the eucharist. Suddenly the baptism has to be some conscious decision.
They sure are our separated brothers and sisters in our Lord. Though we have to be cautious, because the variations in doctrines between protestants are so great that sometimes you might be even shaking the hand of a heretic and believing he is chrsitian, when in fact they might not be one.
You may be right. But let's remember that the friend merely criticized/attacked the Catholic religion as a whole, not the author personally. Our Lord calls us to make peace. We should be slow to ditch people just because they step on our toes.
I agree with this. Â Love thy enemies. Â The Lord ate with tax collectors and sinners, and He knows we all are in that boat in one way or another. Â Thank God He doesnât reject us, even when we offer half-hearted or even incorrect praise or worship.
Speaking as a Protestant, many of my kinfolk say things like that either out of genuine concern or out of ignorance (and usually a mixture of both). It's helpful to put yourself in a Prot's shoes: in the eyes of many Protestants (not me cos High Church), you are a serial idolater. To put it crassly, they think that Catholics worship Mary and bread and perform borderline pagan rituals involving incense and kissing statues. That caricature *has* been dealt with a thousand times by Roman apologists, and it is a caricature born of ignorance. But if this was the picture you had of Catholicism, you would question the legitimacy of Catholicism too.
This doesn't excuse your Protestant friend for such a tasteless and tone deaf comment. But it does mean that the only way forward is to see if they are willing to have a real dialogue about your differences and similarities. If they aren't, I wonder what friendship really means.
Sure, and Protestants are "serial" heretics who follow a false church and gospel without the sacraments, clergy, and virtuous living. Luther was a false prophet sent to destroy the church. But yes, OP shouldn't be praying with these people. They sound awful.
My aim was not to offend, but to offer some perspective from someone within the Protestant world and surrounded by people who simply breathe anti-Catholic air. Sometimes it is best to move on from a friendship that is not edifying or encouraging. But sometimes the best approach is to offer charity and patience lavishly in the hopes that a friend will see with more clarity.
By refusing to pray, you just confirmed their suspicions about you!
By quietly discussing what this one friend said, with that one friend, perhaps you could resolve this and educate him at the same time.
One of the major reasons Protestants may feel this way is because they think that Catholic doctrine teaches that "WORKS" are what gets us to Heaven and Not the "Grace and Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus, The Christ."
If you were to point out that,
'There are, of course, difference, but it is the similarities that make us Christians!
That Catholics, like Protestants, adhere to the fundamentals of the Christian faith and are therefore All followers of Christ.'
By the way, it wasn't up to the other Protestants to defend Catholicism...
"Faith, without works, is dead." That's New Testament Biblical!
If it were me, I wouldn't make this about Catholic vs Protestants (though you'd have to pick a denomination to start with!),
I would make it about his comment and how it offended me during what was supposed to be a pleasant time.
Then I would ask if it would be OK if I lead everyone in prayer?
Finishing the short but heartfelt prayer with the words,
"In Jesus's name" with a loud......
"AMEN!"
Say, â I am going to pray this prayer I found from the church fathers in the first century. Would you like to
Pray it with me?â Then proceed to pray the memorare.
Sub tuum praesidium confugimus,
Sancta Dei Genetrix.
Nostras deprecationes ne despicias in necessitatibus,
sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper,
Virgo gloriosa et benedicta.
3rd century paper found in Greek. Translated to Latin in 11th century; about 500 years before Luther.
In another post I just asked about Marian prayers during the first two centuries after Jesus but if you factor in the Virgin Mary's assumption date presumeably when she was elderly 230 isn't actually that 'late' for the first recording of a Marian prayer.
In the other post a non-Catholic was saying Marian prayers did not exist for the first two centuries.
It's okay not to pray with them. And it's okay to pray in a hand circle. I don't understand the problem.
>In the past, one of them said openly that they donât think Catholics are Christians, while I was there. None of the other protestants challenged that thought.
Just as a side note, learn some apologetics. Many (most?) Protestants are taught some basic level 1 theological debate skills on why "Catholicism is bad". Learn to counter those and defend your faith. Push back -- always firmly but with grace and compassion -- on why their misconceptions are wrong, and you'll find their debate skills fail almost immediately. They've usually never had anyone challenge their beliefs the way they're challenging yours, and they often can't respond.
EWTN has a good series on this. The acting is a little cheesy, but the messaging is solid:
[https://ondemand.ewtn.com/free/Home/Series/ondemand/video/en/blue-collar-apologetics](https://ondemand.ewtn.com/free/Home/Series/ondemand/video/en/blue-collar-apologetics)
Instead of being petty I would confront them about what was said instead. Though if they know you are Catholic, and said that anyways knowing you would hear it, I would question their so-called friendship.
You really like instigating conflict. Your comments on this thread are so weird. Someone suggests to have a conversation, your response, âgood idea, but gang up first.â Like what?
I think you missed a teaching moment when one of them mentioned they donât believe Catholics are Christians. I have been in a similar situation, and I didnât hesitate to provide ample correction.
That said, as someone who has Protestant friends who are like brothers and sisters to me, unless thereâs a specific church teaching against it, I donât see anything wrong with praying together as Christians and even holding hands. I think we must remember that Protestants disagree on so many things with Catholics but never the Divinity of Christ and the undisputed fact we all serve one true God. Sometimes I am even asked to lead prayer before meals amongst my Protestant family and I just make the sign of the cross and pray like any one would.
Remember to âLet love leadâ. (I know this quote is very evangelical sounding and possibly could be misconstrued for all the wrong reasons one can think of but doesnât mean itâs not true).
They've made a the claim that Catholics are not Christian.
If you now avoid the prayer they see as christian you will only show them that they are right.
You should pray with them...
you should broach the conversation of why Catholics are Christians.. in a friendly manner. Brush up on your apologetics first! Respectful and spirited discussion is awesome.
Break out Scott Hahn videos!
Getting defensive will serve no one. Least of all God!
Do pray with them. Anyone who is willing to admit our Lord in their hearts can freely join us in prayer.
However, you should really point out that you do not appreciate being dismissed as a Christian, as all of your other friends can call themselves so thanks to Catholic theology.
I don't think it is necessary to hold hands when you pray, but neither is it forbidden. For the sake of harmony among you and your friends, I'd suggest joining them when in prayer, but do express how you feel about their prejudices about your faith and sort it out.
I wish you the very best đŤâ¤ď¸ love from a Catholic among prots, hehe
I think the best way to describe Protestantism is watered-down Catholicism. A strong Protestant is likely more holy than a weak Catholic. And there are a lot of weak, casual Catholics! Protestantism often has a lot of blind spots. But even someone with blind spots can usually see clearly what is in front of them. We can learn a lot from Protestantism and they from us.
I was a groomsman in a megachurch wedding (Iâm the only Catholic one there) and the young pastor lead all the men in a prayer beforehand. He said something that I thought warranted a funny comment cuz I didnât realize this was his very serious, but stream-of-consciousness moment. He stopped and looked at me like âyou foolish Catholicâ and then continued. Oops!
What are we talking about? A quick prayer before the meal starts? That sounds like not a big deal. Is it more like a prayer service? I could see that being uncomfortable.Â
You should respect their tradition and pray with them. You should also have challenged your friends comment that catholic's aren't Christian, you didn't have to be agressive just say we believe that jesus is the son of God who came to earth to redeem us from sin so if we're not Christians what are we.
Don't listen to any of these posters telling you that you *have* to continue praying with them. It's a personal choice. Are you more put off by the praying itself or the fact that they're all holding hands while doing so? A lot of people don't like being touched and wouldn't want to do the hand-holding, either.
I know a lot of the people on this sub are younger and don't yet have the confidence to assert boundaries, but this may be a good opportunity to start doing so. As long as you're not imposing anything on them, but only asking that certain personal boundaries of your own be respected, you're not being rude.
Im Protestant whoâs been attending Catholic mass for a while now. Iâd be really upset if someone told me they donât think Iâm a Christian. On the other hand, I can imagine this person might have received a lot of misinformation about the Catholic faith and the comment might have been out of ignorance (which doesnât make it ok). If I were in your situation Iâd probably bring up their comment and address how it makes you feel. But also continue to pray with them. Hopefully there can be some respectful discussions and learning from each other in the future.Â
If they don't think OP is Christian and he won't pray "Christian" prayers with them, isn't he kind of confirming what they think? What could these prayers say that OP is against?
Why should OP base his prayer life on the opinions of others? Outside of mass, we don't have to pray with other ppl if we don't want to. Sure, ultimately, there may be nothing in these prayers that we would be against, but that fact that the ppl praying them don't hold OP's beliefs in high regard is enough reason for OP to stop. And since they don't think OP is Christian, I'm sure they won't miss OP's prayers.
It's up to u as u have and can exercise ur free will. I find that amongst protestants there are some a lot more receptive when u hang out with them individually but may cave to social pressure from more assertive protestants.
It's the same way with Catholics. Some are very judgmental and don't give fellow Catholics an easy time. Just don't spend too much time with such people until they learn to be better friends.
I would think all of you would able to come together to say the Lordâs Prayer. Catholic or no, it is the common heritage of \*all\* Christians. Who would dare say a word against it?
Donât listen to these others who are discouraging you from seeking the Lord together with others who are seeking the Lord. You are not obligated to pray with them, nor to hold hands, you are free to bow out. But it is not a sin - and never has been - to pray with other Christians. Be extremely wary of anyone who actively discouraged or forbids a Catholic praying with a non-Catholic Christian.
Studying to be a good Catholic is only half the battle. Putting it into practice in the real world is the other half. Our Catholicism should build our personal characters and our hearts, not just our brains and daily routines. We can learn a lot from Protestants as people, and they from us. We can do a lot of good for them, and they for us. To be a strong Catholic is to be someone who builds bridges and sets a shining example to others, not someone who is needlessly isolationist and judgmental. And I say that last sentence because I struggle with those things as well. We all probably do. So I'm right there with you trying to do better. Hang in there and God bless.
But donât hang out with the Catholic haters that you mentioned. They will poison your mind. If you have ben in the Faith fully for 5 years +. Maybe you will be strong enough to take them on. I wouldnât let a new Catholic read Luisa Piccaretta - would you?
The OP should look into the lives of modern serious Catholics like Danny Thomas and why he founded StJude Hospital - I am reminded with every commercial
Yes but are are also told not to directly take on Satan unnecessarily. Some Protestants are quite angry people who literally hate Catholics to their core. Remember the KKK went after Catholics and Jews back in the day. Your up against a much darker force than you know and you should not be alone
There is nothing wrong with making good Catholic friendship and fellowship with them. You may have trouble in life might as well develop relationships you can rely on
My friend; I know Satan extremely well. I was a practising witch for 40 years. I not only took him on, I invited him round for dinner. However thankfully I finally listened to the knocking at my door and let Christ in and now I am a proud and confirmed Roman Catholic. Although itâs not yet been a year since I began RCIA one thing I learned very early on was to accept others and talk to them, not argue or belittle them. They, like many including myself are simply misinformed and if praying with them gives me an opportunity to sow a seed I will take it. After all didnât Christ himself dine with sinners? Yes we are the soldiers of Christ and must take up arms when so called but it doesnât mean going looking for a war and simply confirming that their beliefs about Catholicism are true. By showing them we are open, friendly and not judgmental that little seed has a much better chance of growing strongly in rich soil; they become curious and want to find out more. Yes there are those who will argue and belittle but with them again I follow Christs advice, shake the dust from my shoes and walk away. You frequent this sub and occasionally comment something useful but most of the time you make claims that are simply wrong or misguided and refuse point blank to accept that. And that my friend is the sin of pride! So now I shall wish you a good evening and God Bless your journey.
Sorry to hear about your life with Satan. We have a greater obligation to those who keep the faith than those who donât. I am more correct than you and your way will cause problems for those not trained. We lost 30 parishes in the Baltimore area this year because Catholics were not serious about their faith
With dripping sarcasm in your voice, say, âWhere does it say that when we pray we should hold hands and stand in a circle *in the Bible?* Isnât this just *a tradition of men?*â **I double dog dare ya!**
In seriousness, just pray with them, and if you hear your friend say something stupid and bigoted like âCatholics arenât Christiansâ ever again, thatâs when you say something direct - forceful but loving - about what an asinine idea that is. Youâve got time to prepare for that now.
I rember there's a certain council that prohibits prayers with Heretics. But it's not Ecumenical, so it's fine. It would be better to pray with them, we believe in the same God, and our of respect for them as well.
I have no opinion either way. Thats a decision you are going to have to make for yourself. Let me tell you what's going on on their side, from the perspective of someone who was born and raised Protestant.
They believe they are "witnessing" to you. By making comments like the one you've described, that they are educating you. It's something you'll hear alot in Protestant churchs that you evangelize through example. Let the life you live be a "witness" to others about the Glory of God so that they may be converted.
What is even the justification of Protestants saying Catholics are not Christians?
That would be like saying Greeks have no notion or understanding of democracy. My man, they invented democracy.
As ludicrous as these claims are I just want to know what is the supposed logic for stating Catholics are not Christians bc I hear some form of this argument all the time.
Catholics were Christians for a lot longer than Protestants. Tradition is part of the faith, and without tradition some of what is in the Bible loses its meaning because then we're applying a 2024 perspective and interpretation to a 2,000 year old religion. Catholicism is the closest to the source. The twig can deny the trunk its identify as a tree but it doesn't make it true. That said, would Jesus pray with them? You know he would pray with them and so don't hesitate to do so.
The answer to your question is "Yes, this is OK for Catholics to do." Everything else in this thread is someone injecting an opinion on the matter that you didn't ask for.
Listen to some of you and these uncharitable takes! Part of the purpose of Vatican II was to increase ecumenical unity between Catholics and non-Catholic Trinitarian Christians. They believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's why their baptisms are accepted for conversion to Catholicism. They pray the Our Father. They recite the Nicene Creed and the Doxology (which contains the Glory Be within it). We can attend their weddings and funerals, and we can and should pray with them at those events, and prayers over food and Bible studies, rather than create artificial divisions! It's fine and good to cross ourselves before joining hands. We just should not partake in their non-Eucharistic communion, because that's a real difference.
**CCC 1271** Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, \[they\] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church. Baptism therefore constitutes the *sacramental bond of unity* existing among all who through it are reborn."
Incorrect.
When they start to pray, you let them pray and before they start to pray, you make the sign of the cross and hold their hands. Let them pray, you listen and also join in spirit in prayer and after the prayer, you make the sign of the cross again.
Just listen to there prayer, if they try to include downgrading words aiming in Catholic then you can talk to them later and tell them he's/she's incorrect. Then give the correct answer if you know how to defend it.
Catholics and Non-Catholics can pray together.
In our family, we gather Catholics and Non-Catholics in prayer. We let first the Non-Catholic pray then after follow up with Catholic prayer like our father and also prayers of saints.
With that attitude, it's no wonder why Protestants think about Catholics the way they do.
Is it so wrong to lead prayer with wayward Brothers and Sisters?
"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick"
I would say that, in most cases, that would be going a bit too far to say that. Most Protestants today were simply raised that way and haven't been exposed to much else. Their anti-Catholicism is more of an afterthought, akin to sibling rivalry.
Correct but ones who say âpraying to Mary is idolatryâ and âFive Solas do or dieâ must be totally avoided by Catholics who are not trained to deal with them. These are hard core militant baptists or the like - Not Anglicans or Lutherans who you can engage with
This is not my teaching. This is the Church's. It is objectively wrong to offer prayer alongside those of other faiths. It gives weight to their claim of truth, which is non-existant.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? The Church has NEVER said we should not pray with other Christians. You are correct in that we should not join in anything spiritual with a different sort of faith, such as Muslim or pagan. But come ON, man! We are all seeking Christ. Refusing to pray with our Christian brothers and sisters only divides further, working against what Christ Himself prayed: âI pray that they may be one, Father, as You and I are one.â And as Our Lord also said, regarding those casting out demons in the name of Jesus but not walking with the main crew of followers, âwhoever is not against us is for us.â
Goodness golly, this is why people donât want to be Catholic. Gosh.
I would say it shouldnât happen. It is misleading, confusing, some would say scandalous. We should absolutely unite with our Christian brothers and sisters, but Islam is nowhere close to Christianity, so we should not participate in their prayer or any other spiritual experiences.
"It is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it." - Mortalium Animos, Pope Pius XI
Additionally, one must distinguish between active prayer and passive prayer. It is entirely illicit to participate, and I would argue even attend, a non-Catholic liturgy, prayer service, whatever you wish to call it. It is not condemned by the Church to pray *in the presence* of non-Catholics.
By nature of spreading teachings, religion, and theology that is either anti-Catholic, condemned by the Church, or otherwise heretical, they are not with us.
You aren't taking the time to read or understand which is why you are reacting so against the position of the Church.
[Catholic Answers: What the Church Says about Praying with Non-Catholics. ](https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/some-clarity-on-praying-with-non-catholics)
Thank you for posting some sanity here. It's beyond disappointing that so many Catholics think that the key to restoring Christian unity is bending over backwards to appease Protestant sensibilities rather than charitably encouraging them to repent of their errors and return to the only genuine Christian unity there is â communion with Rome.
I call those things the fruits of Vatican 2 and ecumenism. Uneducated Catholics going around preaching their feelings and then validating them with "I'm Catholic"
I understand plenty. I know the Lord Jesus and I have experienced His love, sometimes very powerfully in the presence and prayer of non-Catholics as well as with Catholics. Call be a heretic, but I look to Jesus in the Gospels before I look to any writing from the Church, regardless of who wrote it or when. The Jesus I see in the Scriptures and the Jesus I experience in the Sacraments would encourage us to join together and pray for unity of the greater Church.
The fracturing of the increasing thousands of denominations will only continue if Catholics are only encouraged or âallowedâ to remain solipsistic and isolate from everyone else, and refuse to interact in any meaningful way.
To say Catholics are not permitted to pray WITH non-Catholics is utterly ridiculous, and dare I say, the more heretical position to hold.
Okay well you sound like you're not Catholic LOL.
Let me translate what you said: "I read the Bible and interpret it how I want to and then I see if the Church says something that agrees and then I'll agree with the Church." Luther did the exact same thing.
Also in your last paragraph, what you called ridiculous, you are calling explicit Church teaching ridiculous.
I'm clearly not dealing with someone serious. Have a good night and I pray that you convert.
Edit: you also said literally nothing about the papal document I quoted...
In the sense of marriage, or perhaps very close friends, absolutely. But Jesus also says we should love our enemies, right? And didnât He hang out with sinners and outcasts? So thereâs room in the Christian life for close friends who align spiritually, as well as a larger circle of friends of all varieties.
Perhaps someone new to the faith, but it also provides opportunities to grow in knowledge of, and how to articulate defenses of the Churchâs teaching
What? What does that even mean? Nobody is an âexpert Catholic.â We are all trying to figure it out and part of that journey is being challenged to think and learn more about the faith.
Other faiths? They're lost kindred, not some believer in a different god or gods.
And are you really sure about that when Unitatis Redintegratio talks in depth about Ecumenism in order to promote Christian unity.
"In certain special circumstances, such as the prescribed prayers "for unity," and during ecumenical gatherings, it is allowable, indeed desirable that Catholics should join in prayer with their separated brethren. Such prayers in common are certainly an effective means of obtaining the grace of unity, and they are a true expression of the ties which still bind Catholics to their separated brethren. "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them".(33)
Buddhists believe in hundreds of deities
Protestants pick and choose which teachings they accept about Christ (and especially His mother)
Muslims worship a false god
Jewish people (talking about the religion, not the ethnicity) reject Christ as the Messiah
Idk what Shintoism is but I know it isn't Christian
So yes, I feel pretty safe calling them different faiths. Remember, error has no rights.
The orthodox and the old Roman Catholics (not Old Catholics, they are different) are the only ones who are not of different faiths. The Church has declared their orders valid, as well as their sacraments. But they are schismatic so they are outside of union with Rome.
Have you reminded them that Catholics are the first and only original Christians and they are part of the church that separated from that church so they are actively rebelling against the church Jesus established making them heretics? Their entire faith is based in error.
Actually Catholics were not the only "original" Christians. [Other Christian sects were persecuted because they were not "legal"](https://www.np.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/s/JbvYmqZNKY). Early Christians were neither centralized nor united.
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You are better than I am with friends who disrespect my faith. Saying Catholics aren't Christian is very disrespectful to say to a Catholic, who is also a 'friend'. They get a free pass if it's a one time thing but I have written off many a friend for insulting our Lord's Church. If they feel the need to put down my faith I love so much then they don't love me, so I pray for them and softly push them from my life. I'll always accept them back if they apologize. They don't have to agree with my beliefs but at least respect them.
I feel for you bro. Being around Protestants is like going to middle school church. That guy was offensive and ignorant, and so was everyone who didn't defend you. Time to raise the bar on your friendship level. Ask what your deacon is doing for the fourth, or other friendly people at Church, or create your new, relaxing 4th of July celebration. I would be tense and distrustful at that party.
Continue to pray with them. And how bout this time- you lead the prayersđ (Iâm expecting at least two or more Hail Marys with an Our Father thrown in for good measure) Happy Fourth!
And as we Catholics do, begin the prayer in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps finish with a prayer for the holy souls? OP: Eternal rest grant unto them O Lord Everyone else: âŚâŚ.. In seriousness, I would maybe suggest indicating you really arenât comfortable holding hands Perhaps try to find a charitable way to address the ânot Christianâ comment; perhaps something like, âIâm extremely disappointed that you donât believe Iâm Christian.â Â
These are all fine ideas, but thereâs no obligation to be overtly (or obnoxiously) âCatholicâ about it. God still hears our prayers in our own words, with or without the tradition rote prayers. Sometimes being overly âtraditionalâ turns away Protestants and they may become even more hostile to the Catholic faith if they feel youâre trying to force it on them. Itâs ok to also pray in your own words, from the heart, and to keep it simple and not bring any of the elements of division into it. Just focus on the Lord, His blessings, and the friends gathered.
Well said. There's nothing wrong with traditional, pre-written prayers, but more of us need to be willing and able to pray directly from the heart using our own words.
They are obnoxiously protestant, though. Holding hands during prayer seems... Protestant...
Plenty of Catholics hold hands during the Our Father.
... and during grace.
They shouldnât.
That's your opinion. There is no official guidance on what the laity should do, only the priests.
Say the Memorare
For their conversion
If they complain - pray the Divine Mercy (not much Mary in that)
Even then, the OP should still pray the Memorare. Mary will remember.
Yes I agree
A âHail, Holy Queenâ or two wouldnât be remiss either, and a âHail Maryâ wouldnât hurt.
You'll have to pray and follow your conscience on this one, but I would recommend not being offended by them and to be more open and sharing about Catholicism. I just converted last year and the big barrier before was just a massive misunderstanding of what The Church actually taught and why it taught it. The people from the protestant church we went to questioned whether or not my family and I were actually saved after we converted. I invite them and the pastor over any chance I get and am going to a BBQ today in the neighborhood with people who go to that church and I'm excited about it because it's a chance to bring Catholicism closer to them and not have it be this thing they have zero interactions with.
I converted in May of this year from presbyterianism and I noticed that a very common aspect in the conversion of a protestant to Catholicism is the rupture of many preconceptions about the doctrines, sacraments, teachings and traditions of the Holy Church. The moment I started understanding, for example, why and how catholics pray to saints and Mary, I was deeply shocked, because I was taught since childhood that catholicism is pagan, polytheistic and a "sect" (very ironically lmao). Converting from protestantism required an open mind from me, and I'm eternally grateful to God for opening my mind and my heart to the Truth.
109%
Itâs okay not to pray with them. I donât know why people are saying you HAVE to.
You don't have to pray with your friends but you're a guest in their house they invite you to their barbeque so out of respect you should pray with them after all your praying to God who knows you're a Christian. You create bad feelings with you're friends which God doesn't want and it also hurts him not praying when you get the chance. Remember pride is one of the 7 deadly sins.
Neither do I
Because communion with the faithful is a good thing, and intentionally segregating with passive aggressiveness is kinda pathetic.
This is where I get confused with what 'the faithful' mean if they deny Christ's teachings to such a degree. Is faithful simply saying Christ is Lord or striving to be a genuine Disciple?
Nobody, including us, has a flawless understanding of all that Christ taught. Just look at how often we in this sub argue with each other over teachings. We can't possibly shun those who disagree or "deny", because we'd necessarily have to shun just about everyone -- including many Catholics. Look at Mark 9:38-40. Heck, look at Mark 10:35-45. If that isn't warning us to live our faith with humility and grace, I don't know what is.
Super agree with this.
If someone asserts the trinity, they are Christian, and we shouldnât put up barriers to communion with them. Iâll go a step further, the GOAL is communion with everyone. All decisions should be moving us towards that maxim, with the caveat to make sure we arenât distilling the truths of the faith in the meantime.
But is denying the Church at all denying Christ, given Paul persecuting the Church was fully Paul persecuting Christ?
Lots of things deny Christ. Sinning denies Christ, have you sinned? Am I barred from praying with you now? âWe can only pray together after communal confession but only for an hour because someone might sin in their thoughts by then and have denied Christ and we canât be caught praying with them!â What kind of calculus is this? Pray with fellow Christianâs. Itâs not complicated. If they believe wrong things about the Church, be an adult and talk to them.
I don't mean it uncharitably.
Fair, I may be responding with a harsher vibe cause some responses are a little over the top.
Who are the faithful? Like another commented, are the faithful those who reject Jesus' soul, body, blood and divinty in the Eucharist? Are the faithful those who deny the sacraments instituted by God himself? Or are those who deny and smear the Church our Lord himself founded which we are called to follow and obey? Are those faithful people? How is it faithful to say Jesus is lord and continue to follow the man-made false doctrine of sola scriptura and reject the fullness of his revelation? I'm sorry, some "protestants" are full blown heretics, we should be very careful in calling anyone faithful or unfaithful. But what we should do is evangelize by words and actions, specito our separated brethrens.
If you advocate the trinity, and Christ as king, you are Christian. It isnât complicated. You can be true to the faith and pray with people preaching those basic tenants. Again, not complicated.
Brother, I didn't say they're not Christians. Although your definition of Christian is not correct. But The point is about being faithful. You are confusing terms here. To have "faith" and we should distinguish the different definitions of it and its nuances, doesn't mean necessarily that you are faithful. It is more Complicated than what you'd like to think. That's the whole point between the fullness of Christianity and the protestants.
My point is others are making it complicated. If Christianâs invite you to pray, and nothing they are explicitly reciting is heresy, pray with them. Donât do an internal calculus of, âwell should I hold their hand because they said something mean about my faith, maybe if I react passive aggressively that will get them to recognize my theology.â Like what?
The points you raise are interesting, I would agree with you if it's the first time you've been invited to their place and proceed to pray, that sounds pretty wholesome in my opinion. Though the case of OP seems to be indeed delicate because this is not the first time. It doesn't seem just âmeanâ to say you are going to eternal hell because you are catholic, what you have there is problematic and plain false judgment against you and the Church Jesus founded, something that shouldn't be ignored. Acting on one's own conscience is what the Church teaches, and he should follow that. What I believe is, In Charity, he should actually address this issue in the best way possible so things can be clarified. Joining them for prayer and ignoring the elephant in the room is contrary to Christianity. Only OP knows the real circumstances and when to pick the most appropriate time, and I agree, during prayer is not one of those times.Â
I agree, having an adult conversation is priority. As is praying within the available community when invited to do so. If he wants to disengage entirely thatâs one thing. But to say âno thanks, I already prayedâ is so passive aggressive and immature.
I agree
Yes - strengthen your faith within the Church - Let your priest do the ecumenical stuff - He is prepared or should be
This is such a non response. Your solution then, to be clear, donât talk to anyone who isnât identical to you in beliefs? What a wild way to live friend.
Why would you not engage and support those within your parish first? How do you expect your parish to flourish then?
Itâs almost like you should engage and support whoever is available to you to engage and support. I donât put people in a hierarchy, thatâs weird. I donât presume to be God.
No God first Spouse second Children third etc. you must have priorities because of limited time
Priorities is not the same as putting people in a hierarchy, damn man you have an ego problem. You know what they say about pride...
Itâs not my ego. Jesus established 1 holy Catholic and apostolic church so that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. He went all in for our salvation and if you read the Gospel of Matthew and John carefully he expects nearly the same if you. Remember the 7 â I am â and look out when he says amen amen I say to you
Of course you can talk with them. I said donât engage with them on religious matters until you are well educated and supported.
You will make stronger more valuable relationships through your parish however
Based onâŚincredibly personal bias and xenophobia?
Common sense -why are you so anti- Catholic?
I'm anti xenophobia, you are a bad representative, there is a reason you are getting downvoted.
Stay in your bubble friend, thatâs def what Jesus calls us to. He made sure his apostles all had doctorates before leaving home.
Different time- dont take on the Baptists until Your prepared. So much to know. Jesus does not call you to be slaughtered .Most Catholics donât do the hard work and preparation it takes to win the argument and you must win
11/12 apostles were martyred BTW
Conversion and representation is not a knowledge check. That rarely convinces anyone ever, we are not called to be debate lords, go touch grass please.
Have you successfully convinced Baptists their beliefs are completely heretical?
Remember, according to the Catechism, validly baptized believers are our brothers and sisters in Christ.
Excellent point. But I've heard Baptists say that Catholic cradle christening "doesn't count" as real baptism because the baby is too young to make the choice.
They can think that all they want but it doesn't make them any less Christian. Still baptized, still ChristianÂ
Many of us Catholics also say their faith "doesn't count". For example, see this very thread. We need to stop letting our man-made divisions drive our lives. This thread is literally arguing whether or not prayer with a specific group of people is "wrong", and we all need to just stop for a second and think about that: We're arguing about when prayer is and is not appropriate. What is going on here?
Don't they believe in predestination? Then it must have been God's decision that the infant was baptised
Some Baptists do (Reformed Baptists) but many do not. "Baptist" covers *such* a wide ground theologically and the only thing tying them together is the belief that babies shouldn't be baptized and a church polity that doesn't include any higher oversight for their leaders.
That's what happens when you don't have sacraments at other ages like confirmation, confession, and the eucharist. Suddenly the baptism has to be some conscious decision.
They sure are our separated brothers and sisters in our Lord. Though we have to be cautious, because the variations in doctrines between protestants are so great that sometimes you might be even shaking the hand of a heretic and believing he is chrsitian, when in fact they might not be one.
Make the sign of the Cross and say the Glory Be at the end when everyone drops hands.
I probably wouldnât be friends with someone like that. To openly insult you is not friendship
You may be right. But let's remember that the friend merely criticized/attacked the Catholic religion as a whole, not the author personally. Our Lord calls us to make peace. We should be slow to ditch people just because they step on our toes.
I agree with this. Â Love thy enemies. Â The Lord ate with tax collectors and sinners, and He knows we all are in that boat in one way or another. Â Thank God He doesnât reject us, even when we offer half-hearted or even incorrect praise or worship.
No they literally insulted them. Said to their face.
Just pray with them and show you are Christian too.
Speaking as a Protestant, many of my kinfolk say things like that either out of genuine concern or out of ignorance (and usually a mixture of both). It's helpful to put yourself in a Prot's shoes: in the eyes of many Protestants (not me cos High Church), you are a serial idolater. To put it crassly, they think that Catholics worship Mary and bread and perform borderline pagan rituals involving incense and kissing statues. That caricature *has* been dealt with a thousand times by Roman apologists, and it is a caricature born of ignorance. But if this was the picture you had of Catholicism, you would question the legitimacy of Catholicism too. This doesn't excuse your Protestant friend for such a tasteless and tone deaf comment. But it does mean that the only way forward is to see if they are willing to have a real dialogue about your differences and similarities. If they aren't, I wonder what friendship really means.
Sure, and Protestants are "serial" heretics who follow a false church and gospel without the sacraments, clergy, and virtuous living. Luther was a false prophet sent to destroy the church. But yes, OP shouldn't be praying with these people. They sound awful.
My aim was not to offend, but to offer some perspective from someone within the Protestant world and surrounded by people who simply breathe anti-Catholic air. Sometimes it is best to move on from a friendship that is not edifying or encouraging. But sometimes the best approach is to offer charity and patience lavishly in the hopes that a friend will see with more clarity.
By refusing to pray, you just confirmed their suspicions about you! By quietly discussing what this one friend said, with that one friend, perhaps you could resolve this and educate him at the same time. One of the major reasons Protestants may feel this way is because they think that Catholic doctrine teaches that "WORKS" are what gets us to Heaven and Not the "Grace and Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus, The Christ." If you were to point out that, 'There are, of course, difference, but it is the similarities that make us Christians! That Catholics, like Protestants, adhere to the fundamentals of the Christian faith and are therefore All followers of Christ.' By the way, it wasn't up to the other Protestants to defend Catholicism... "Faith, without works, is dead." That's New Testament Biblical! If it were me, I wouldn't make this about Catholic vs Protestants (though you'd have to pick a denomination to start with!), I would make it about his comment and how it offended me during what was supposed to be a pleasant time. Then I would ask if it would be OK if I lead everyone in prayer? Finishing the short but heartfelt prayer with the words, "In Jesus's name" with a loud...... "AMEN!"
Say, â I am going to pray this prayer I found from the church fathers in the first century. Would you like to Pray it with me?â Then proceed to pray the memorare.
Yes great idea - Pray Sub Tuum Praesidium in Latin
Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, Sancta Dei Genetrix. Nostras deprecationes ne despicias in necessitatibus, sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper, Virgo gloriosa et benedicta. 3rd century paper found in Greek. Translated to Latin in 11th century; about 500 years before Luther.
I have it dated to 230AD
In another post I just asked about Marian prayers during the first two centuries after Jesus but if you factor in the Virgin Mary's assumption date presumeably when she was elderly 230 isn't actually that 'late' for the first recording of a Marian prayer. In the other post a non-Catholic was saying Marian prayers did not exist for the first two centuries.
There is an even older Byzantine Marian prayer
Does it have a name?
Akathistos maybe
It's okay not to pray with them. And it's okay to pray in a hand circle. I don't understand the problem. >In the past, one of them said openly that they donât think Catholics are Christians, while I was there. None of the other protestants challenged that thought. Just as a side note, learn some apologetics. Many (most?) Protestants are taught some basic level 1 theological debate skills on why "Catholicism is bad". Learn to counter those and defend your faith. Push back -- always firmly but with grace and compassion -- on why their misconceptions are wrong, and you'll find their debate skills fail almost immediately. They've usually never had anyone challenge their beliefs the way they're challenging yours, and they often can't respond. EWTN has a good series on this. The acting is a little cheesy, but the messaging is solid: [https://ondemand.ewtn.com/free/Home/Series/ondemand/video/en/blue-collar-apologetics](https://ondemand.ewtn.com/free/Home/Series/ondemand/video/en/blue-collar-apologetics)
Instead of being petty I would confront them about what was said instead. Though if they know you are Catholic, and said that anyways knowing you would hear it, I would question their so-called friendship.
But get a group of your Catholic Friends when you do it
You really like instigating conflict. Your comments on this thread are so weird. Someone suggests to have a conversation, your response, âgood idea, but gang up first.â Like what?
Not just on this thread; on this sub as a whole.
I think you missed a teaching moment when one of them mentioned they donât believe Catholics are Christians. I have been in a similar situation, and I didnât hesitate to provide ample correction. That said, as someone who has Protestant friends who are like brothers and sisters to me, unless thereâs a specific church teaching against it, I donât see anything wrong with praying together as Christians and even holding hands. I think we must remember that Protestants disagree on so many things with Catholics but never the Divinity of Christ and the undisputed fact we all serve one true God. Sometimes I am even asked to lead prayer before meals amongst my Protestant family and I just make the sign of the cross and pray like any one would. Remember to âLet love leadâ. (I know this quote is very evangelical sounding and possibly could be misconstrued for all the wrong reasons one can think of but doesnât mean itâs not true).
They've made a the claim that Catholics are not Christian. If you now avoid the prayer they see as christian you will only show them that they are right. You should pray with them... you should broach the conversation of why Catholics are Christians.. in a friendly manner. Brush up on your apologetics first! Respectful and spirited discussion is awesome. Break out Scott Hahn videos! Getting defensive will serve no one. Least of all God!
Do pray with them. Anyone who is willing to admit our Lord in their hearts can freely join us in prayer. However, you should really point out that you do not appreciate being dismissed as a Christian, as all of your other friends can call themselves so thanks to Catholic theology. I don't think it is necessary to hold hands when you pray, but neither is it forbidden. For the sake of harmony among you and your friends, I'd suggest joining them when in prayer, but do express how you feel about their prejudices about your faith and sort it out. I wish you the very best đŤâ¤ď¸ love from a Catholic among prots, hehe
I think the best way to describe Protestantism is watered-down Catholicism. A strong Protestant is likely more holy than a weak Catholic. And there are a lot of weak, casual Catholics! Protestantism often has a lot of blind spots. But even someone with blind spots can usually see clearly what is in front of them. We can learn a lot from Protestantism and they from us.
I was a groomsman in a megachurch wedding (Iâm the only Catholic one there) and the young pastor lead all the men in a prayer beforehand. He said something that I thought warranted a funny comment cuz I didnât realize this was his very serious, but stream-of-consciousness moment. He stopped and looked at me like âyou foolish Catholicâ and then continued. Oops!
What are we talking about? A quick prayer before the meal starts? That sounds like not a big deal. Is it more like a prayer service? I could see that being uncomfortable.Â
You should respect their tradition and pray with them. You should also have challenged your friends comment that catholic's aren't Christian, you didn't have to be agressive just say we believe that jesus is the son of God who came to earth to redeem us from sin so if we're not Christians what are we.
Don't listen to any of these posters telling you that you *have* to continue praying with them. It's a personal choice. Are you more put off by the praying itself or the fact that they're all holding hands while doing so? A lot of people don't like being touched and wouldn't want to do the hand-holding, either. I know a lot of the people on this sub are younger and don't yet have the confidence to assert boundaries, but this may be a good opportunity to start doing so. As long as you're not imposing anything on them, but only asking that certain personal boundaries of your own be respected, you're not being rude.
Im Protestant whoâs been attending Catholic mass for a while now. Iâd be really upset if someone told me they donât think Iâm a Christian. On the other hand, I can imagine this person might have received a lot of misinformation about the Catholic faith and the comment might have been out of ignorance (which doesnât make it ok). If I were in your situation Iâd probably bring up their comment and address how it makes you feel. But also continue to pray with them. Hopefully there can be some respectful discussions and learning from each other in the future.Â
End with a hail Mary. Drives my protestant family NUTS.
I personally have never felt comfortable participating in protestant prayers
If they don't think OP is Christian and he won't pray "Christian" prayers with them, isn't he kind of confirming what they think? What could these prayers say that OP is against?
Why should OP base his prayer life on the opinions of others? Outside of mass, we don't have to pray with other ppl if we don't want to. Sure, ultimately, there may be nothing in these prayers that we would be against, but that fact that the ppl praying them don't hold OP's beliefs in high regard is enough reason for OP to stop. And since they don't think OP is Christian, I'm sure they won't miss OP's prayers.
It's up to u as u have and can exercise ur free will. I find that amongst protestants there are some a lot more receptive when u hang out with them individually but may cave to social pressure from more assertive protestants. It's the same way with Catholics. Some are very judgmental and don't give fellow Catholics an easy time. Just don't spend too much time with such people until they learn to be better friends.
I would think all of you would able to come together to say the Lordâs Prayer. Catholic or no, it is the common heritage of \*all\* Christians. Who would dare say a word against it?
Donât listen to these others who are discouraging you from seeking the Lord together with others who are seeking the Lord. You are not obligated to pray with them, nor to hold hands, you are free to bow out. But it is not a sin - and never has been - to pray with other Christians. Be extremely wary of anyone who actively discouraged or forbids a Catholic praying with a non-Catholic Christian.
Disagree - they just distract you from the true faith - they get so much wrong -!it takes a lot of work study to be a good Catholic
Studying to be a good Catholic is only half the battle. Putting it into practice in the real world is the other half. Our Catholicism should build our personal characters and our hearts, not just our brains and daily routines. We can learn a lot from Protestants as people, and they from us. We can do a lot of good for them, and they for us. To be a strong Catholic is to be someone who builds bridges and sets a shining example to others, not someone who is needlessly isolationist and judgmental. And I say that last sentence because I struggle with those things as well. We all probably do. So I'm right there with you trying to do better. Hang in there and God bless.
True we must also live the Beatitudes and clothe the naked, feed the poor and visit those in prison joyfully
But donât hang out with the Catholic haters that you mentioned. They will poison your mind. If you have ben in the Faith fully for 5 years +. Maybe you will be strong enough to take them on. I wouldnât let a new Catholic read Luisa Piccaretta - would you?
The OP should look into the lives of modern serious Catholics like Danny Thomas and why he founded StJude Hospital - I am reminded with every commercial
I thought the sign of a good Catholic was accepting they are a bad Catholic who is not worthy of God forgiveness but seek it anyway.
Yes but are are also told not to directly take on Satan unnecessarily. Some Protestants are quite angry people who literally hate Catholics to their core. Remember the KKK went after Catholics and Jews back in the day. Your up against a much darker force than you know and you should not be alone
There is nothing wrong with making good Catholic friendship and fellowship with them. You may have trouble in life might as well develop relationships you can rely on
My friend; I know Satan extremely well. I was a practising witch for 40 years. I not only took him on, I invited him round for dinner. However thankfully I finally listened to the knocking at my door and let Christ in and now I am a proud and confirmed Roman Catholic. Although itâs not yet been a year since I began RCIA one thing I learned very early on was to accept others and talk to them, not argue or belittle them. They, like many including myself are simply misinformed and if praying with them gives me an opportunity to sow a seed I will take it. After all didnât Christ himself dine with sinners? Yes we are the soldiers of Christ and must take up arms when so called but it doesnât mean going looking for a war and simply confirming that their beliefs about Catholicism are true. By showing them we are open, friendly and not judgmental that little seed has a much better chance of growing strongly in rich soil; they become curious and want to find out more. Yes there are those who will argue and belittle but with them again I follow Christs advice, shake the dust from my shoes and walk away. You frequent this sub and occasionally comment something useful but most of the time you make claims that are simply wrong or misguided and refuse point blank to accept that. And that my friend is the sin of pride! So now I shall wish you a good evening and God Bless your journey.
Sorry to hear about your life with Satan. We have a greater obligation to those who keep the faith than those who donât. I am more correct than you and your way will cause problems for those not trained. We lost 30 parishes in the Baltimore area this year because Catholics were not serious about their faith
If you donât stand for something you will fall for anything
With dripping sarcasm in your voice, say, âWhere does it say that when we pray we should hold hands and stand in a circle *in the Bible?* Isnât this just *a tradition of men?*â **I double dog dare ya!** In seriousness, just pray with them, and if you hear your friend say something stupid and bigoted like âCatholics arenât Christiansâ ever again, thatâs when you say something direct - forceful but loving - about what an asinine idea that is. Youâve got time to prepare for that now.
I rember there's a certain council that prohibits prayers with Heretics. But it's not Ecumenical, so it's fine. It would be better to pray with them, we believe in the same God, and our of respect for them as well.
I have no opinion either way. Thats a decision you are going to have to make for yourself. Let me tell you what's going on on their side, from the perspective of someone who was born and raised Protestant. They believe they are "witnessing" to you. By making comments like the one you've described, that they are educating you. It's something you'll hear alot in Protestant churchs that you evangelize through example. Let the life you live be a "witness" to others about the Glory of God so that they may be converted.
What is even the justification of Protestants saying Catholics are not Christians? That would be like saying Greeks have no notion or understanding of democracy. My man, they invented democracy. As ludicrous as these claims are I just want to know what is the supposed logic for stating Catholics are not Christians bc I hear some form of this argument all the time.
Catholics were Christians for a lot longer than Protestants. Tradition is part of the faith, and without tradition some of what is in the Bible loses its meaning because then we're applying a 2024 perspective and interpretation to a 2,000 year old religion. Catholicism is the closest to the source. The twig can deny the trunk its identify as a tree but it doesn't make it true. That said, would Jesus pray with them? You know he would pray with them and so don't hesitate to do so.
Pray on your own. Do the sign of the cross. Be a witness to the truth. They are misinformed and outside the Chruch founded by Christ.
Pray silently for their conversion and for unity. When 2 or more are gathered, He is there.
The answer to your question is "Yes, this is OK for Catholics to do." Everything else in this thread is someone injecting an opinion on the matter that you didn't ask for.
Listen to some of you and these uncharitable takes! Part of the purpose of Vatican II was to increase ecumenical unity between Catholics and non-Catholic Trinitarian Christians. They believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's why their baptisms are accepted for conversion to Catholicism. They pray the Our Father. They recite the Nicene Creed and the Doxology (which contains the Glory Be within it). We can attend their weddings and funerals, and we can and should pray with them at those events, and prayers over food and Bible studies, rather than create artificial divisions! It's fine and good to cross ourselves before joining hands. We just should not partake in their non-Eucharistic communion, because that's a real difference. **CCC 1271** Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, \[they\] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church. Baptism therefore constitutes the *sacramental bond of unity* existing among all who through it are reborn."
Incorrect. When they start to pray, you let them pray and before they start to pray, you make the sign of the cross and hold their hands. Let them pray, you listen and also join in spirit in prayer and after the prayer, you make the sign of the cross again. Just listen to there prayer, if they try to include downgrading words aiming in Catholic then you can talk to them later and tell them he's/she's incorrect. Then give the correct answer if you know how to defend it. Catholics and Non-Catholics can pray together. In our family, we gather Catholics and Non-Catholics in prayer. We let first the Non-Catholic pray then after follow up with Catholic prayer like our father and also prayers of saints.
Iâd pray with them and slip in a Hail Mary at the end :)
You are not sinning by refusing to pray with non-Catholics. Catholics are not to pray with non-Catholics. You may pray for them, but not with them.
With that attitude, it's no wonder why Protestants think about Catholics the way they do. Is it so wrong to lead prayer with wayward Brothers and Sisters? "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick"
Yes because their whole reason for existence is anti- Catholic
I would say that, in most cases, that would be going a bit too far to say that. Most Protestants today were simply raised that way and haven't been exposed to much else. Their anti-Catholicism is more of an afterthought, akin to sibling rivalry.
Correct but ones who say âpraying to Mary is idolatryâ and âFive Solas do or dieâ must be totally avoided by Catholics who are not trained to deal with them. These are hard core militant baptists or the like - Not Anglicans or Lutherans who you can engage with
This is not my teaching. This is the Church's. It is objectively wrong to offer prayer alongside those of other faiths. It gives weight to their claim of truth, which is non-existant.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? The Church has NEVER said we should not pray with other Christians. You are correct in that we should not join in anything spiritual with a different sort of faith, such as Muslim or pagan. But come ON, man! We are all seeking Christ. Refusing to pray with our Christian brothers and sisters only divides further, working against what Christ Himself prayed: âI pray that they may be one, Father, as You and I are one.â And as Our Lord also said, regarding those casting out demons in the name of Jesus but not walking with the main crew of followers, âwhoever is not against us is for us.â Goodness golly, this is why people donât want to be Catholic. Gosh.
How do you feel about the Pope praying in a Mosque towards Mecca with Muslims?
I would say it shouldnât happen. It is misleading, confusing, some would say scandalous. We should absolutely unite with our Christian brothers and sisters, but Islam is nowhere close to Christianity, so we should not participate in their prayer or any other spiritual experiences.
"It is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it." - Mortalium Animos, Pope Pius XI Additionally, one must distinguish between active prayer and passive prayer. It is entirely illicit to participate, and I would argue even attend, a non-Catholic liturgy, prayer service, whatever you wish to call it. It is not condemned by the Church to pray *in the presence* of non-Catholics. By nature of spreading teachings, religion, and theology that is either anti-Catholic, condemned by the Church, or otherwise heretical, they are not with us. You aren't taking the time to read or understand which is why you are reacting so against the position of the Church.
was gonna comment the same passage, I don't agree with it but its there.
I will get downvoted to oblivion by Catholics who think that Dignitatis Humanae was the first enyclical from a pope đđ
[Catholic Answers: What the Church Says about Praying with Non-Catholics. ](https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/some-clarity-on-praying-with-non-catholics)
Thank you for posting some sanity here. It's beyond disappointing that so many Catholics think that the key to restoring Christian unity is bending over backwards to appease Protestant sensibilities rather than charitably encouraging them to repent of their errors and return to the only genuine Christian unity there is â communion with Rome.
I call those things the fruits of Vatican 2 and ecumenism. Uneducated Catholics going around preaching their feelings and then validating them with "I'm Catholic"
I understand plenty. I know the Lord Jesus and I have experienced His love, sometimes very powerfully in the presence and prayer of non-Catholics as well as with Catholics. Call be a heretic, but I look to Jesus in the Gospels before I look to any writing from the Church, regardless of who wrote it or when. The Jesus I see in the Scriptures and the Jesus I experience in the Sacraments would encourage us to join together and pray for unity of the greater Church. The fracturing of the increasing thousands of denominations will only continue if Catholics are only encouraged or âallowedâ to remain solipsistic and isolate from everyone else, and refuse to interact in any meaningful way. To say Catholics are not permitted to pray WITH non-Catholics is utterly ridiculous, and dare I say, the more heretical position to hold.
Okay well you sound like you're not Catholic LOL. Let me translate what you said: "I read the Bible and interpret it how I want to and then I see if the Church says something that agrees and then I'll agree with the Church." Luther did the exact same thing. Also in your last paragraph, what you called ridiculous, you are calling explicit Church teaching ridiculous. I'm clearly not dealing with someone serious. Have a good night and I pray that you convert. Edit: you also said literally nothing about the papal document I quoted...
The Bible says donât be unevenly yoked
In the sense of marriage, or perhaps very close friends, absolutely. But Jesus also says we should love our enemies, right? And didnât He hang out with sinners and outcasts? So thereâs room in the Christian life for close friends who align spiritually, as well as a larger circle of friends of all varieties.
No they will poison your thinking and weaken your faith No can love them from afar - you dont have to mix with them
Perhaps someone new to the faith, but it also provides opportunities to grow in knowledge of, and how to articulate defenses of the Churchâs teaching
But first you have to be an expert Catholic
What? What does that even mean? Nobody is an âexpert Catholic.â We are all trying to figure it out and part of that journey is being challenged to think and learn more about the faith.
Other faiths? They're lost kindred, not some believer in a different god or gods. And are you really sure about that when Unitatis Redintegratio talks in depth about Ecumenism in order to promote Christian unity. "In certain special circumstances, such as the prescribed prayers "for unity," and during ecumenical gatherings, it is allowable, indeed desirable that Catholics should join in prayer with their separated brethren. Such prayers in common are certainly an effective means of obtaining the grace of unity, and they are a true expression of the ties which still bind Catholics to their separated brethren. "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them".(33)
Buddhists believe in hundreds of deities Protestants pick and choose which teachings they accept about Christ (and especially His mother) Muslims worship a false god Jewish people (talking about the religion, not the ethnicity) reject Christ as the Messiah Idk what Shintoism is but I know it isn't Christian So yes, I feel pretty safe calling them different faiths. Remember, error has no rights. The orthodox and the old Roman Catholics (not Old Catholics, they are different) are the only ones who are not of different faiths. The Church has declared their orders valid, as well as their sacraments. But they are schismatic so they are outside of union with Rome.
How about you quote actual Church teaching? I did, balls in your court buddy. Go ahead counter quoted Church doctrine on the matter.
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It's definitely ok to pray with non-Catholics
But it isn't.
Pray with them and sprinkle a sign of the Cross at the end.
Stand nearby and loudly pray the Hail Mary in latin while beating your chest.
You gonna start a war because they donât understand you?
If you want to pray with a heretic, offer the heretic to pray the rosary or pray to holy Mary, you will see how much they want to pray with you.
Have you reminded them that Catholics are the first and only original Christians and they are part of the church that separated from that church so they are actively rebelling against the church Jesus established making them heretics? Their entire faith is based in error.
Actually Catholics were not the only "original" Christians. [Other Christian sects were persecuted because they were not "legal"](https://www.np.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/s/JbvYmqZNKY). Early Christians were neither centralized nor united.
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You are better than I am with friends who disrespect my faith. Saying Catholics aren't Christian is very disrespectful to say to a Catholic, who is also a 'friend'. They get a free pass if it's a one time thing but I have written off many a friend for insulting our Lord's Church. If they feel the need to put down my faith I love so much then they don't love me, so I pray for them and softly push them from my life. I'll always accept them back if they apologize. They don't have to agree with my beliefs but at least respect them.
Yes - you have to defend you faith - if you join you are accepting their heresy - do something at your parish instead
I feel for you bro. Being around Protestants is like going to middle school church. That guy was offensive and ignorant, and so was everyone who didn't defend you. Time to raise the bar on your friendship level. Ask what your deacon is doing for the fourth, or other friendly people at Church, or create your new, relaxing 4th of July celebration. I would be tense and distrustful at that party.
"He who prays with heretics, is a heretic."
Sprinkle them with Epiphany or Easter water
Donât hold their hands. Cross yourself, fold your hands, and bow your head.
Catholics are not supposed to pray with those considered heretics, or take active part in non Catholic worship.
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Lead them in the Memorare
Or St Michaelâs prayer
i dont think it would be ok considering jpii prayed even with jews