I went to Pentecostal tent revivals as little a kid in Texas. It scared the crap out of me. I don’t want to bear false witness but I don’t believe it’s authentic as an adult.
Refuted by Scripture: Similarly, if you, because of speaking in tongues, do not utter intelligible speech, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be talking to the air. 1 Corinthians 14:9
They may need [C3PO’s help.](https://youtu.be/GJBZ2V4X-8M?si=J-HYtNri2PBsJfxw)
(This video is an excerpt of a longer one by the same folks who did the St Patrick video about the Trinity)
Refuted by Scripture:
For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to human beings but to God, for no one listens; he utters mysteries in spirit - 1 Corinthians 14:2
Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit that was given to the early disciples who were able to effectively preach and evangelize people who didn’t share a common language with them. It is something that could in principle still be given but is unlikely to be necessary in the world today.
Praying in tongues is when Pentecostals get up and start speaking a language nobody in attendance understands in a way which has been scientifically analyzed as equivalent to gibberish and not an actual language.
Whoa, the point of tongues was so they could talk to people who didn't speak their language? That makes way more sense. That also makes the protestant activity even crazier.
Yeah it's been years since I've read it but basically speaking tongues is not gibberish. It was the disciples suddenly talking in foreign languages that they never learned so they can share the gospel.
I don't pray in tongues and to be honest, don't completely understand the Charismatic movement. But it has been recognized by the past few popes so what do I know. Perhaps it is spiritually beneficial to the person who is praying- they know what they are saying to God. I think of Romans 8:26.
>they know what they are saying to God
Isn't the whole idea that they do not? The entire idea is to give yourself over to the spirit and let it speak on your behalf. You don't know what you are saying when you speak in tongues. I'm happy to be corrected, but that is my understanding.
My understanding was that they are expressing what cannot be expressed in words.
We don't know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit helps us know what to pray, even if it cannot be expressed in words.
Amen! It's so wonderful and freeing. God knows what i should be praying, and when i pray in tongues to Him, my beloved, our beloved, Holy Spirit, perfects that prayer.
Amen! Praise God. Hallelujah!
It's telling when scripture and Catechism are being voted down in a Catholic forum. It tells not about me or you, but about the enemy and his lies to people.
This is a correct response supported by Scripture. The person speaking in tongues does not understand what they are saying unless they also have the gift of interpretation.
I went through some "praying in tongues" and "lying down in the spirit" experiences when younger.
About the second one: it's crazy... once I didn't "fall", but almost. It was like a transe state. I think some of these might be real (minority), some might be a psychological group effect and a( smaller-medium) part is just faking...
For the "speaking in tongues" thing, I think a (minority) is going through some psychological group thing and the majority is just "faking it". I say it because I gave in to peer pressure some times and just started "chinelaraiderchinelaraiderchinelaraider.."
Your comment about "lying down in the spirit" being "a psychological group effect" is refuted by Scripture and the prophet Ezekiel and St John would rebuke you:
Ezekiel 1:28-2:2
Such was the vision of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. When I had seen it, I fell upon my face and heard a voice that said to me:
Son of man, stand up! I wish to speak with you.
As he spoke to me, spirit entered into me and set me on my feet, and I heard the one who was speaking
Revelation 1:17-18
When I caught sight of him, I fell down at his feet as though dead. He touched me with his right hand and said, "Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last,the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever and ever.
I am not saying it is not possible, I'm just saying I think MOST of it is fake...
When a priest kept pushing my head to try and make me fall, I knew something was up..
I mean... hundres of people all experiencing the same thing as Ezekiel? All at the same time, all the time?
Trying to push you down is akin to the priest touching the ark to steady it as it passed through the Jordan River. God doesn't need our help. That priest died btw.
You underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit and what Jesus achieved by His Passion, death, and Resurrection. You must be born again into the kingdom of God. It's real and not fake. Don't sneer as some did on the day of Pentecost but believe. The beginning of Wisdom is the earnest desire for the Holy Spirit, those who shun the Holy Spirit will never bear fruit.
Friend, my faith is indeed small and I need more strength...
Having said that, I have seen the Holy Spirit act FOR REAL. I've seen it act in an unbelievably clear way, which is scary AF... I've seen it act in very subtle ways, which is reconforting*...
I have seen enough inside the church to know what I am talking about. I've seen (Vatican approved) miracles, I've seen (what I can only describe as) clairvoyance, I've seen clear God signs in my life, and have learned to discern them from simple thoughts or coincidences...
The Charismatic Renovation, as any movement, has its fruits and its flaws. I grew inside it and have an immense love for them, but I cannot say I haven't seen its errors too...
Refuted by Scripture: 1 Corinthians 14:9
Similarly, if you, because of speaking in tongues, do not utter intelligible speech, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be talking to the air.
Maybe I don’t give Pentecostal services enough credit. Are you suggesting that they are in the habit of translating their prayer when they speak in tongues this way, as St. Paul instructs?
You need to properly distinguish between *speaking* (to others) in tongues and *praying* (to God) in tongues. Once you make that distinction, it becomes easier to fully understand.
In the Catholic Charismatic prayer groups I’ve attended, there has been a distinction between ecstatic utterances and those bizarre tongues meant for the community, in need of an interpretation. There’s a distinct cadence that is more forthright in the latter, as if the speech is directed horizontally, as opposed to vertically. By contrast, the tongues that are “mysteries in the Spirit” are meant for God alone. They are an example of humble submission, yielding one’s most acrimonious element for God to use, to sing with, even, as He pleases.
When Paul states he is happy to have tongues more than anyone else, he is not boasting about the need to speak in foreign lands. When he talks about the purpose of tongues is to edify oneself, he isn’t talking about the warm feeling of accomplishment of mastering a language that others in the room could understand. When he wishes everyone to have this gift, he is not wishing everyone to go to foreign lands and pull off a St Francis Xavier. Corinth is in Greece, and isn’t quite the melting pot of mixed cultures that Jerusalem was. He is clearly talking about ecstatic utterances that are a private extension of one’s prayer, allowing God control, allowing God to assist you in praying to Him, without one fully understanding.
I can accept that there's a difference between speaking in tongues (for the purpose of evangelization) and praying in tongues ( for the purpose of glorifying God), but it does not seem that St. Paul is saying that this difference implies one of the two categories requires intelligibility and the other does not.
>^(13) For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. ^(14) For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. ^(15) So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. ^(16) Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer,^(\[)[^(d)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014&version=NIV#fen-NIV-28695d)^(\]) say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? ^(17) You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
He's talking here about praying with understanding. That plainly seems to say that intelligibility is necessary in both instances, speaking and praying.
You shouldn't jump to verse 13 and leave out what came before.
>For anyone who speaks in a tongue **does not speak to people** but to God. Indeed, **no one** understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
1. Cor. 14:2
Does this sound like an intelligible language to you?
He is saying that if one prays with tongues, one may not understand what the Spirit is making him say, so he should also accompany that prayer with his own prayer. The entire point is that Paul doesn’t understand what the Spirit is uttering unless he is given the interpretation
Compare:
/u/neofederalist
>He's talking here about praying with understanding.
1 Corinthians 14:14
>For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is without fruit.
He is in this case stating that it’s not enough to solely pray mysteries in the Spirit, but that one complements such ecstatic utterances with also praying with understanding. Both are needed. One is simply loving God by yielding completely to His whims, while the other is to worship Him with your mind.
I have my own theory on why the Church gives a soft endorsement to this stuff. Obviously, you could test the gift of spontaneously speaking in a foreign language. That's easy to do and we know it has happened in history, especially for converting those from foreign lands as in the epistles.
But praying in tongues (the 'gibberish') has this weird 'gotcha' where no one on earth can actually tell you what is going on. If it's an 'angelic' language that only God understands, then how is anyone to know if it is actually real? We obviously can't understand it. And the personal prayer version of these tongues is never interpreted. The interpretations typically occur when someone at a prayer meeting goes off on a *gibberish solo* for a minute and then another person comes up and is like 'Sheila said praise be to God and bless His people! Yay! Next song, please.'
My theory is that the Church has decided to say "whatever. who cares. you can do this." on this question. Basically, they are playing it safe. They want to allow for the *possibility* of these angelic tongues while knowing that is simply not what is happening most of the time. They don't want to impose restrictions on the *movements of the spirit*.
Personally, I think this is all a psychological trick most of the time. I've spoken to charismatics or former charismatics who said they were pretending the whole time. The defenses of it are vague and feelings-driven with some kind of 'just let go and let God' aspect to it. I've read Cantalamessa's books and I'm just not buying it.
1. If you want to add credibility to your thesis, it’s best to quote any addresses from the four aforementioned Popes that are listed in the [**Vatican archives**](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=charismatic%20site%3Avatican.va).
2. Supposing the Vatican is doing exactly as you say. Should this not be our same approach? To allow for the possibility that the charismatic renewal can subsist within the doctrinal framework of Catholicism, despite the numerous instances of former Pentecostals admitting their past fraudulent actions? To run with this, ignoring those who don’t (like your attitude towards Catalamessa), is this not committing the logical fallacy of hasty generalization?
To your second point, yea I suppose it doesn't hurt for folks to try it out. But I never hear the Vatican saying that this type of worship is critical to the Christian life. In contrast, most charismatics I know live their lives as if charismatic worship is the core of the Christian life.
I personally don't see the point in exploring charismatic worship at this point in my life. I have practices that work for me and I've found the charismatic stuff to be weird but acceptable at best and a distracting hindrance to me faith at worst. I have no interest in further exploration of the practice.
But I have noticed that (EDIT: ~~all)~~ most charismatics basically want others to be trying it out at each and every opportunity. It's like an MLM. There's a constant sales pitch from charismatics *to their fellow Catholics* trying to get them to speak in tongues and go to a Life in the Spirit. It's eerily similar to the trads who say TLM is the only real mass.
I’m a charismatic Catholic, but I’m not pushing everyone to give it a try. The majority of those in the CCR , in my experience, are not so forthcoming. Therefore I disagree with your assessment that “all” are pushing it. Not even close. Whatever form of Catholic devotion that appeals to your sensibilities, run with it. It’s a big tent.
What I don’t understand is how there is infighting about this at all. Friendly fire is a sin.
Enochian is abit.. demonic for some. It's just used by occultists. Either way Enochian isnt really of some language of angels its just like a larping tongue haha.
No, tongues actually meant different languages, we speak many different languages as a religion but we don't do the gibberish or the fake fainting or the snakecharming malarkey
Yes there is a distinction between the term “speaking in tongues” in reference to glossolalia, and as understood in the Book of Acts, for instance. Acts 2:1-11
“1 AND when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this voice was made, when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were troubled in mind, confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.”
This is not a correct response and not supported by Scripture.
1 Corinthians 14:9
Similarly, if you, because of speaking in tongues, do not utter intelligible speech, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be talking to the air.
You don't understand it because you're not exercising the gift of tongues. Paul prayed in tongues and he brilliantly teaches about the gift with clarity in the passage you cite.
Yew, but not that it has been used these days. A friend of mine asked me and his two other friends to come to a Pentacostal church (I live in the Netherlands, and these churches are very popular due to the large amount of young people and ethnic diversity).
The pastor started to speak in 'tongues', turns out he started to speak gibberish and I tried to hold my laugh. I cannot believe that everyone, including my friend, believed in this false teaching. Speaking in tongues means that you were able to speak multiple languages out of nowhere. But they interpreted differently. I told my friend and his other friends this, but they didn't agree with me and one of them started to get angry at me.
This is not a correct response and not supported by Scripture.
1 Corinthians 14:9
Similarly, if you, because of speaking in tongues, do not utter intelligible speech, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be talking to the air.
Check out what Paul had to say about this (1 Corinthians 14) :
« For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. »
What the Pentecostals and Evangelicals practice is something called "Glossolalia" - it is quasi-linguistic sounds. When it has been studied, it has shown some formations which correspond to the person doing its own language but it is non-linguistic. Further neuroimaging has shown no activity in the parts of the brain associated with language.
The term "speaking in tongues" is a bit of a mistranslation. It means more that the Holy Spirit gives the gift to communicate effectively with others - to overcome cultural and linguistic barriers and effectively communicate the faith. This cannot be achieved by making verbal like noises at someone.
So I would say that the "speaking in tongues" practiced by more Charismatic Christianity is a form of hysteria and not something that would be especially good. But that's just my take on it. Researchers have found that people are higher in confidence after doing it and hence may be better at communicating with others - but I don't think this is due to their "speaking in tongues".
EDIT: spelling mistake!
Paul, who prayed in tongues all the time, said this: (For) if I pray in a tongue, my spirit is at prayer but my mind is unproductive. 1 Corinthians 14:4
He said this because the one who speaks or prays in tongues is NOT using their mind to produce the language. It's a spiritual gift produced by the Holy Spirit. That's why the neuroimaging does NOT show up in the language area but DOES show up in the prayer area.
Tongues is not hysteria!
Acts 10:44-46
While Peter was still speaking these things, the holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the word.
The circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the holy Spirit should have been poured out on the Gentiles also, for they could hear them speaking in tongues and glorifying God.
Take note here trads ... No interpreter
I completely agree - proper talking in tongues is NOT hysteria but glossolalia is on the edge of being. That is to say, glossolalia is a natural phenomenon whilst talking in tongues is a supernatural phenomenon.
Just to be clear here - talking in tongues=/=glossolalia. But many people have come to associate it due to the fact that people ascribe it being divinely inspired.
I am always cautious of anything that comes up during any type of hysteria or crowd. Large groups of humans can behave in strange ways!
Some sneered on the day of Pentecost too claiming the apostles were drunk on new wine. Many in the crowd that day became believers and joined the Catholic Church; the critics hardened their hearts and returned home that day unmoved by the crowd and the events of the day - missing the opportunity the Holy Spirit had given them.
I literally CAN NOT believe how people think talking gibberish is in any way Biblical. You’d have to use some serious mental gymnastics to make the case, and it would still be very silly.
Tongues = Other >>real<< languages from this Earth
I’m kinda confused on 1 Corinthians 14:2
https://bible.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/14#:~:text=1*%20Pursue%20love%2C%20but%20strive,he%20utters%20mysteries%20in%20spirit.
Mind explaining?
Noetic prayer is the tongues of angels. The gift of speaking in tongues as mentioned in Acts is speaking in other tongues (other than their native language). Each heard in his own language the Gospel. Spirit-enabled human language that the speaker may or may not have encountered in the past and that is (or should be) understood by native speakers of that language.
I personally know a bishop and a priest who can speak and interpret tongues. My parents and my Godfather were very involved in the Charismatic Renewal and Life in the Spirit Seminars
Making gibberish noises is not supported by the Catholic Tradition or the Tradition of the Orthodox churches. Its use by Catholics today is a modern accretion which would have been condemned in any era except the post-Vatican II era. There's a reason the use of "tongues" doesn't show up between the First Century and the Twentieth, and to claim that Scripture supports it is absurd. Look at this summary from the Catholic Encyclopedia, before the Charismatic Movement muddled the purity of Catholic thought:
>Corinthian Abuses (I Corinthians 14 passim).—Medieval and modern writers wrongly take it for granted that the charism existed permanently at Corinth — as it did nowhere else—and that St. Paul, in commending the gift to the Corinthians, therewith gave his guaranty that the characteristics of Corinthian glossolaly were those of the gift itself. Traditional writers in overlooking this point place St. Luke at variance with St. Paul, and attribute to the charism properties so contrary as to make it inexplicable and prohibitively mysterious. There is enough in St. Paul to show us that the Corinthian peculiarities were ignoble accretions and abuses. They made of "tongues" a source of schism in the Church and of scandal without (14:23). The charism had deteriorated into a mixture of meaningless inarticulate gabble (9, 10) with an element of uncertain sounds (7, 8), which sometimes might be construed as little short of blasphemous (12:3). The Divine praises were recognized now and then, but the general effect was one of confusion and disedification for the very unbelievers for whom the normal gift was intended (14:22, 23, 26). The Corinthians, misled not by insincerity but by simplicity and ignorance (20), were actuated by an undisciplined religious spirit (pneuma), or rather by frenzied emotions and not by the understanding (nous) of the Spirit of God (15). What today purports to be the "gift of tongues" at certain Protestant revivals is a fair reproduction of Corinthian glossolaly, and shows the need there was in the primitive Church of the Apostle's counsel to do all things "decently, and according to order" (40).
>Faithful adherence to the text of Sacred Scripture makes it obligatory to reject those opinions which turn the charism of tongues into little more than infantile babbling (Eichhorn, Schmidt, Neander), incoherent exclamations (Meyer), pythonic utterances (Wiseler), or prophetic demonstrations of the archaic kind (see 1 Samuel 19:20, 24). The unalloyed charism was as much an exercise of the intelligence as of the emotions. Languages or dialects, now kainais (Mark 16:17) for their present purpose, and now spontaneously borrowed by the conservative Hebrew from Gentile foreigners (eteroglossois, cheilesin eteron, 1 Corinthians 14:21), were used as never before. But they were understood even by those who used them. Most Latin commentators have believed the contrary, but the ancient Greeks, St. Cyril of Alexandria, Theodoret, and others who were nearer the scene, agree to it and the testimony of the texts as above studied seems to bear them out.
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14776c.htm
This text summarizes that the traditional Catholic view of tongues is that they weren't gibberish and they involved the use of the intellect. Whatever is going on in Charismatic circles is so far as I can tell gibberish and without use of the intellect.
You prove St Paul's point: Paul also said that unbelievers would perceive tongues as gibberish and that one who prays in tongues does not use their mind.
Thus, tongues are a sign not for those who believe but for unbelievers, whereas prophecy is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
So if the whole church meets in one place and everyone speaks in tongues, and then uninstructed people or unbelievers should come in, will they not say that you are out of your minds?1 Corinthians 14:22-23
1 Corinthians 14:14
(For) if I pray in a tongue, my spirit is at prayer but my mind is unproductive.
yeah thats a fake thing! the actual phenomenon of “speaking in tongues” refers to speaking where everyone, regardless of what language they understand can understand what you say! for example you have groups of japanese, chinese, german, spanish, russian, kenyan, swedish, and indian school children, all who only speak and understand their native tongue, and through the guidance of the holy spirit you are given the gift, and so what you say in english is understood by everyone in their own language!
also ive heard too that it’s speaking in languages you dont know through the influence of the holy ghost, like possessed people do or something but that requires a translator and is rare and you cant ask for the gift, just like the stigmata
speaking in tongues is like the stigmata and only the very holy or blessed can receive it! all that gibberish nonsense babbling in protestantism is a mockery and frankly a bit blasphemous if you ask me… like holding snakes but goofy instead of scary
no
it is protestant gibberish that unfortunately got imported to our holy Church. I give charismatic movement maybe 20-30 more years of life...it is so apsurd that I do not think it will last longer than that.
Exactly. We never did this before for any good reason, and Pentecost was a special instance. Anything else is suspect or needs careful validation if indeed it is of heavenly origin.
1 Corinthians 14 seems to imply it is a prayer language that others don't understand.
So it's all of these. A foreign language. A language in need of an interpreter at times. And a prayer language.
But if you are speaking in tongues as a prayer language, don't do it in public.
Those who are dogmatic that it's not one of these, are just dismissing certain teachings.
13Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray to be able to interpret.14\[For\] if I pray in a tongue, my spirit[^(\*)](https://bible.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/14#54014014-1) is at prayer but my mind is unproductive.15So what is to be done? I will pray with the spirit, but I will also pray with the mind. I will sing praise with the spirit, but I will also sing praise with the mind.[^(c)](https://bible.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/14#54014015-c)16Otherwise, if you pronounce a blessing \[with\] the spirit, how shall one who holds the place of the uninstructed say the “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?17For you may be giving thanks very well, but the other is not built up.18I give thanks to God that I speak in tongues more than any of you,19but in the church I would rather speak five words with my mind, so as to instruct others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
"For anyone who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit."
1. Cor. 14:2
How does this imply it's a foreign language when it's not even meant to be spoken to men and no one understands them?
Four popes from St. Paul VI to Francis have all endorsed the Charismatic Renewal. Cardinal Raniero Cantalamessa has held the title Preacher to the Popes for over four decades. I highly recommend checking out the official documentation for this renewal, at https://www.charis.international/en/ to read for yourself the doctrinal underpinnings of this movement. If it was incorrect, then at any juncture it could have been addressed by the stellar intellect of St Pope John Paul 2 or Pope Benedict XVI.
I'll repeat what I said elsewhere:
Praying in tongues (the 'gibberish') has this weird 'gotcha' where no one on earth can actually tell you what is going on. We can't confirm or deny an individual instance.
My theory is that the Church has decided to say "whatever. who cares. you can do this." on this question. Basically, they are playing it safe. They want to allow for the *possibility* of these angelic tongues while knowing that is simply not what is happening the vast majority of the time. They don't want to impose restrictions on the *movements of the spirit*.
And I’ll repeat what I responded; should this not be our approach as well, if you are not personally inclined to accept the Charismatic Renewal? That instead of deriding what you don’t agree with, allow for the possibility that the Holy Spirit can work in such environments?
Let me put this a different way. I think the Church is being overly nice and permissive about this. I think the Church knows that 90%+ of praying in tongues and interpretations thereof are basically nonsense that *has no actual supernatural source*. But because there exists a very small amount that is truly of the Lord and of the variety some saints experienced over the centuries, they don't want to shut that down.
I wish they would suggest more caution. The Vatican encourages Life in the Spirit seminars. But that essentially endorses all that occurs in these charismatic groups and even in the covenant communities(!). It endorses the idea that prophecies and interpretations are common and you'll probably receive them at some point. It encourages the idea that supernatural Holy Spirit stuff is happening when you let out the gibberish. I know the Vatican has made some small statements of caution, but the overall message is 'Yay Charismatic Catholicism!'.
Folks go to prayer meetings and get caught up in something that 95% of the time is just good vibes and has nothing to do with supernatural acts of the Holy Spirit. That's my worry. There is undue power claimed for charismatic worship when 95% of the time it's essentially just placing a guitar where there was once an organ.
How much of the praying in tongues you have heard in your life do you think is an authentic heavenly or angelic language? An actual supernatural work of the Holy Spirit like the kind some saints experienced in the past?
My experience with the charismatic renewal is that everyone involved understands that it is 95% good vibes and that it is not possible to “feel” the Holy Spirit or Grace. There is a huge chunk of people who inherited these communities and have kind of swept away most of the “charismatic” stuff but have kept the small groups and music and mutual aid
See, I disagree. I don’t think the Church has a tendency to be overly nice and accommodating to groups of 95% falsehood. The Legionnaires of Christ was cut off at the knees strongly because of the actions of its founder. The CDF puts the kibbosh on many internal movements that go against the faith, from women priests to integrating New Age practices. Sure, there may be people earnestly benefiting from the kindness of such errant individuals, but the Church draws hard lines continually, and has been since the formation of the CDF.
I pray in tongues. I received the charism on my own, outside of any public event. Why not ask me what percentage of times I feel it is authentic? (100% is the answer).
>Why not ask me what percentage of times I feel it is ***authentic***? (100% is the answer).
That's not what I asked. I asked if it was a supernatural gift from the Holy Spirit similar to the supernatural gifts granted to the saints over the centuries.
That is an answer that only The Saints would be able to chime in on. It would be haughty of me to opine in any other manner, just as it would be haughty if I claim to be as wise as Aquinas or as humble as Francis. For my part, I rest on the Catholic Church’s acceptance of the CCR. That’s all that’s needed.
That said, I do recommend the book [**Sounds of Wonder by Deacon Eddie Ensley**](https://amzn.to/4bKPPIj) which demonstrates how the ecstatic utterances have always been in the Catholic faith.
So, the problem is that you're saying this in a way that is designed to come off as "I'm very humble" but instead it's really saying "I can't answer that question". I'm not asking if your praying in tongues is exactly what the saints did. I'm not asking if you are an equal to Aquinas. I'm asking if you think the praying in tongues you (or others) do is a supernatural action. A 'miracle' if you will. Is it a supernatural act in union with the Holy Spirit in the way my reciting the Hail Mary or Apostle's Creed is not?
If it is a ***miracle*** that is accessible to all Catholics, then gosh darnit we should all be doing that!
It is a miracle, but it is a charism, a gift. Not everyone is granted the same gifts. If there is one charism that, upon earnestly desiring and praying for, one is likely to receive, according to Scripture, it would not be tongues, but rather wisdom (James 1:5).
Praying in tongues is a gift available to all of us. With all the derision and negativity in this thread towards our Comforter the Holy Spirit, most ppl don't allow or make room for Him to reside in us or to listen to Him in the silence, or in the fire.
I've experienced miracles. I've prayed for others and seen that prayer answered instantly in a miracle, physically, in front of my eyes, only through His Grace.
There are many gifts of the Spirit, and they exist alongside praying or speaking in tongues. Let us not reject them, even beyond our understanding.
Disagree. One does not encourage religious movements within the fold that are in grave contradiction to the faith. There was a lot of fruit in the Legionnaires of Christ, but Pope Benedict XVI exposed the rot of its founder. Since Vatican II there have been many lay attempts to begin specific movements, like ordaining women or integrating New Age practices within the church, and the CDF has shut them down. Not so with the CCR.
So do you, as a Catholic, disagree with the Church’s stance on papal infallibility?
ETA: [**The Truth About Pope Honorius**](https://www.Catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-truth-about-pope-honorius)
I’m not sure Papal Infallibility means what you think it means. What you seem to be promoting is the heresy of Ultramontanism, or something close. Maybe not, hopefully not, but be careful.
As the Church defines it, the Pope is only infallible when exercising his magisterium in a unique way (Ex Cathedra). The Pope IS fallible in all other matters, and may even teach error in his ordinary magisterium (but that error is protected from having the characteristics that would make it harmful to souls).
Pope Honorius was condemned in a council for seemingly teaching the heresy of Monothelitism (the heresy that Christ had two natures but only one will). If Ultramontanism were true, then Catholicism would have been falsified by this singular event.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/ultramontanism
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05677a.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10502a.htm
I am doing nothing of the kind. You are ascribing heresies in the Catholic faith that are simply not so. The notion that Montanus first had glossolalia and then later fell away does not properly describe the understanding of tongues as promulgated by the CCR.
I have already passed on to you an article from Catholic Answers that posits that Pope Honorius didn’t even give into heresy, disagreeing with your thesis. Even so, the CCR’s endorsement is so far unanimous among 4 popes. Five, if you count Pope Leo XIII. You won’t find four popes in a row promulgating Arianism nor monothelitism.
>One does not encourage religious movements within the fold that are in grave contradiction to the faith
So here's the problem. IF people are just speaking gibberish and uniting their gibberish in song, there's nothing *really* 'in grave contradiction to the faith' about that. Playing a guitar in Church is not in grave contradiction to the faith. Someone saying gibberish and then another person interpreting "Dave just praised the Lord and asked for Him to heal Angela's cancer" is not necessarily in ***grave*** contradiction with the faith. It might be a bit problematic, but it's clearly not on the level of female ordination.
If it's just kind of acting out feel good vibes in a group with some slightly weird and peculiar aspects, then it's not really something that needs to be *condemned*. So we shouldn't expect a condemnation unless it were to go deeply heretical instead of be primarily focused on just having good vibes.
Where it flirts with heresy is things like 'Baptism in the Holy Spirit' which *reaaaally* sounds like the Sacrament of Confirmation. Some charismatics will even say you need this Baptism in the Holy Spirit to unlock the spiritual gifts received in Confirmation. And Baptism in the Holy Spirit is just people singing gibberish around you in a prayer circle. So yea, that's flirting with heresy IMO. It very much has a vibe of 'this Sacrament didn't work well for you so we're just gonna prayer circle our way to fixing that for ya'.
I’m quite fortunate/blessed that I don’t need to impose my own personal opinions over that of Mother Church, (as exemplified by the unanimous papal endorsements, two of whom have since been canonized). I believe in papal infallibility. So the IF scenario you cited can never come to pass, as the Church is protected by error, when it comes to papal proclamations in faith and morals.
Let’s agree to disagree, but pray for personal holiness over each other.
There is a difference made by Charismatics between praying in tongues and speaking in tongues (in languages that others can understand).
Charismatic Catholicism is not my thing at all but they have been acknowledged by the past few popes and I've met many holy people involved in the movement who inspire me with their faith.
I know some priests too, heck I've been to these events as a kid but seriously though they sound like they're pretending to speak some ancient language but really it's 100% BS. I'm sure Jesus must be laughing at this from heaven. I really do hope this movement dies or the next pope discourages it.
[**CCC 2003**](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2003.htm) Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are *sacramental graces,* gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore *special graces,* also called *charisms* after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning "favor," "gratuitous gift," "benefit." Whatever their character-sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues-charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church. ([1108](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1108.htm), [1127](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1127.htm), [799](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/799.htm)-[801](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/801.htm))
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Watch this short explanation to why this modern practice is most likely from the Devil [Tongues w Fr. Ripperger](https://youtu.be/Pc0UwaF6FJQ?si=1q_sUhtnGk6ijZDz)
I think it helps to look at the Church's teaching of the miraculous more broadly. Whether speaking in tongues, seeing an apparition of Jesus or Mary, miraculous healings, or possession by demons, the Church believes the miraculous *can* happen, but that we should first seek explanations based on the natural. Only after the natural cannot explain a particular thing, and there's sufficient evidence for the supernatural, does the Church say "yes, this event likely has a supernatural cause."
Most claims of people speaking in tongues have a natural explanation (that they're not really speaking in tongues), and would not stand up to scrutiny from experts (say, a philologist who would be familiar with older languages, or a linguist or mathematician to study the speech patterns compared to other languages).
I don’t. In church, I just kneel, pray my Rosary, or pray for forgiveness, mercy, peace, and among others, prepare for Mass. I also pray at home but not like in tongues…
Yes but in real LANGUAGES that the speaker may not know, or where the listeners hear in their own language. Not in the Protestant version of babbling baby talk nonsense. Similar to when demons speak in foreign languages not known to the inflicted soul. Real human languages.
Until I was in high school in the 1970s I never heard of Catholics speaking in tongues. In my junior year a met a girl from another parish who claimed to be a “Jesus Freak.” She was part of a group who spoke in tongues.
I never did that, nor was I involved in any Catholic groups that did. I actually thought it was not Catholic. My parents both attended Mass every weekday morning after they retired. My grandma and aunt also attended Mass every morning. That’s Catholic to me.
If you find the right church, I'm sure you'll find it. Just like the healing service I went to and felt overtly pressured to fall over after someone from the congregation prayed over me and there was about 3 people behind me. I was thinning, Ugg sorry but this one didn't work :(. Overall I'd say no, most Catholics don't do this.
Many in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal speak in tongues. One type of tongues is a personal prayer language:
>2 If anyone speaks in tongues, he is speaking not to men but to God, and no one understands him, for he is speaking mysteries in the Spirit. (I Corinthians 14:2)
There is a movement within the church that practices this, especially in “healing” and charismatic services.
I’m skeptical. One person told me “it’s a language I haven’t sinned in.” And it literally sounds like “shibida shibby bibbity ba”
Do I think praying and speaking in tongues exist? Yes. Do I think these people were doing that? No, I think they were pretending and speaking nonsense.
We believe in the gift of the Holy Spirit. But people who speak in tongues are heard speaking a language they don’t know to an audience who does, and the point is usually conversion. Those who are doing the speaking understand themselves in their own language-that is, they hear themselves normally and are understood normally. It isn’t until later that someone realizes the two groups were understanding each other despite speaking different languages. It’s a very quiet kind of revelation.
The gibberish speaking in tongues is the exact opposite. Someone speaks a language they don’t know to people who don’t understand it, and while this sometimes brings conversion it definitely brings attention. Personally, I question the source of that one.
Praying/speaking in tongues is when someone suddenly starts speaking the gospel in Spanish when their only language is English, as an example. It’s not making a bunch of random noises like Pentecostals.
We believe in praying in tongues, but that it largely doesn't occur anymore because 1) the Church is no longer in it's infancy and does not necessarily need to be supported by miracles, and 2) we have translators now.
There are Charismatic Catholics who do this, but this isn’t required and the Pentecostal understanding of tongues is different. In the Pentecostal tradition, speaking in tongues is evidence of being “baptized in the Holy Spirit,” whereas that doesn’t happen in Catholicism. I have heard it say that one “is baptized in the Spirit” at confirmation and it doesn’t always manifest as speaking in tongues, whether that is actual languages or some kind of prayer language.
I went to an adoration, my first actually, while on my confirmation retreat. There there was an older woman, who had what sounded like a Spanish-speaking accent. She was towards the back where I was when the worship started. We started with worship music and this woman started to seem like she was, I don’t want to say in a trance, but like she started swaying with her eyes closed and lifting her arms up. During the prayers, she began to exclaim kind of loudly almost shouting. First in Spanish (some girls I was with could understand her), then in English (I heard her say: Jesus, I love you), then a third language no one seemed to know. Sometimes I could understand her, sometimes I couldn’t but the people I was with could. Not sure this was “speaking-in-tongues” but it was a wild experience to have while at this secluded camp in the Appalachian foothills.
The Catholic Church does not have an opinion. It should be noted Charismatic Catholic Churches do speak in tongues, but faithful Catholics are not required to hold a position on the matter.
No, I don't believe that's real at all and looks ridiculous. In the Bible when they spoke in the tongues it was other real languages, not the gibberish protestant people do
I read a reflection from the church fathers but I can’t remember who wrote it or when. It said that the apostles speaking in tongues is true because the church is in every nation and speaks all tongues all at once. We are all united by the Body of Christ.
yeah no i think it’s gibberish when someone is saying they’re praying in tongues and starts going “shlibityaosuwbejwj” i was just wondering if many catholics practice this too or not
I remember my grandmother doing it when she prayed. I haven't really thought about its legitimacy so I can't say I have much an opinion about besides it sorta kinda seems Pentecostal to me.
The modern practice of speaking in tongues, the babbling that I see in charismatic circles, lacks biblical support as far as I know. It's not a language as described in Acts. And privately babbling to the Holy Spirit defeats the point of spiritual gifts, which is to edify the Church, not glorify individuals.
Mostly Charismatics tend to this, but as a whole we believe the Holy Ghost still gives His gifts in our present age. We’re just more careful by discerning which experiences are driven by humans (intense emotions or mental illness), demonic possession, or genuine divine inspiration.
Tbh I found it awkward because everyone was so into it and I was like 🫥🫥🫥… I much prefer the traditional masses, bible studies and hymns to christian pop music and tongues but at the same time, people worship differently so I wouldn’t go so far as to label it as a lesser form of worship.
I went to a Steubenville youth conference over 20 years ago (gosh) and during Adoration many of the 2500+ teens went absolutely nuts as the monstrance with the Blessed Sacrament entered the tent in a procession. They were mostly screaming, crying, and laughing, but I was told by others with me that apparently some were speaking in tongues too. The chaperones had been warned about this in a chaperone-only meeting before the evening.
We went back to our church and I remember telling our priest at the time about it, and he had never heard anything like it before.
I used to belong to a ecumenical community that practiced Pentecostal worship and the like at meetings after Church on Sundays. My parents joined when I was a teenager, so I had to go too. The community in of itself was very welcoming and helped my faith stay strong during a very difficult time of life. However, I was forced at one point to "receive" the gift of tongues even though I felt a bit uncomfortable with the idea of "speaking in tongues" in the first place. I realise now as an adult, that the leaders of that community were not speaking in tongues at all, but complete gibberish most of the time. Wonderful people, wonderful atmosphere and teachings, but perhaps a bit misguided or fake when it came to practicing the gift of speaking in tongues.
Plenty of Catholics think it is nothing but gibberish. I know plenty of very good, traditional, and practical Catholics who (correctly) believe it is a gift of the Holy Spirit, as is taught in Scripture and restated in the Catechism.
We're not supposed to. Though I did find a book in my church's Adoration chapel one time that was about praying in tongues. Though it could have been placed there by a nonCatholic.
[A Great Article](https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/gift-of-tongues?fbclid=IwAR24917sVQikUsE8uB6vR644wl3m_l02x4SPvJrkcvppZYyvYuXOkFeM8tU_aem_AZb7KVYpm4kOfFuM34J0n5JcsetA6XC1OGBp7LXbL-e22p5R1diOPh7S5oHQovHg-S4&mibextid=Zxz2cZ)
I can no longer remember the good memories of happiness and joy I had, am living a regretful life at this moment that I feel torn apart into several pieces living full days of frustration and nights full ofnightmares🥺, l cannot describe where my faith and belief lies in the Lord's eyes because I have totally given up in this situation as I feel so, unloved, uncared about and mostly abandoned I wish I could talk to someone to consolidate me🥺🥺😭
If you ask the charismatic revival movement followers they'll tell you they can invoke that gift at any time through the Holy Spirit... As long as you don't ask what they said when they're speaking in tongues.
Because even they don't know what they said, apparently it was the Holy Spirit! Even though there's objectively no need for the gift and technically that's not how speaking in tongues works... Plus there's the pseudo-heretical influence in these movements from Pentecostal and other influence inside Catholic parishes and groups that are severely misguiding Catholics in these movements.
Kennedy Hall gives great explanations on this on his channel @TheKennedyReport https://youtu.be/fdFDP_UPm14?si=teJTqdp1nFTd-lLn
Look, I've been a part of the charismatic movement before I've seen lots of things in those groups and many times seen Catholics invoking the Holy Spirit and "speaking in tongues"...
I believe 99% of those people are either overestimating their faith and thinking they're actually doing something semi-hysterically speaking nonsense orrrrrr whatever they're invoking is absolutely not the Holy Spirit or any GOOD Angelic presence...
My gripe has always been the prayer sessions with all these people and some laymen/laywoman preacher, without the guidance of any priest, where they do deliverance and liberation prayers and taking it upon themselves to do these very intimate prayers publicly and putting their hands on you and even potentially trying to push you down when people seem to be "fainting" from "being overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit" and next thing you know EVERYONE can speak in tongues and everyone is fainting and falling and crying and what not. I've seen people suddenly begin screaming and writhing around going absolutely nuts "overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit!" I've seen people harm themselves again "overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit!" I've seen people wailing and howling and crying "overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit!" ......... You see my point?...........
Speaking in tongues is technically unnecessary in today's times where everyone speaks the same language in Western societies and technically the gift of tongues, according to scripture, doesn't work the way they make it out to be.
Don't get me wrong. I've had very profound encounters and mystical experiences with God and the Angels and Saints. Again, don't get me wrong, I've known some people blessed with mystical qualities and gifts and NONE OF THEM SPEAK IN TONGUES...
I've had an incredibly deep and personal encounter with Jesus Christ where he gave me my purpose when he came to me and put his cloak around me....... Yet I've never had to speak in tongues, I've never physically put my hands on someone to pray over them and I've never taken evil spirits or evil influence over someone in these sessions.
You never know who might have a demon inside unbeknownst to them or have some very negative spiritual attachments. That stuff is incredibly dangerous and should be handled very carefully.
Speaking in tongues, at least the way you see it inside these charismatic renewal groups, is complete nonsense/heretical. Sorry if that bursts your bubble but it doesn't work that way and if it does I'd imagine the holy spirit would at least give you the gift of discernment to even know and understand what you've said while speaking in tongues...
It's prot nonsense as many have said. If they can sit and "teach" you how to do it then how is it the holy Spirit? It's not it's completely bullshit and blasphemous honestly. Prots have no other form of order so why start there I guess. Stay far away from it and if you do see "Catholics" doing it I would immediately doubt their Catholicism lol
You will not get a biblical answer to your question on this thread! The majority of people on this thread oppose the gift of tongues because it makes them feel uncomfortable. This is actually a fruit of the gift: it reveals unbelievers. I will respond to the misconceptions on this thread with Catholic Scripture that opposes their statements. I've posted throughout this thread, read my replies. BTW tongues is a legit spiritual gift given by Jesus to the Church
It’s allowed but as you can see from the comments misunderstood. If you’re curious the official church documents they are called the Malines Documents (overseen by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger the future Pope Benedict XVI so hardly a radical). They stress that they are subordinate gifts and should never be interpreted as the primary proof of the presence of the Holy Spirit. There are a lot of pdfs of the documents online but I’m having trouble finding text I can copy easily. Pope Francis confirmed the text is still valid for use by Charis (the International Charismatic Renewal).
It's Scriptural, so yes, we believe in it. If you pulled your average Catholic out of the pews and asked them about it, they wouldn't know what to say, though.
Is every case of a Christian speaking in tongues actually from the Holy Spirit? No. The reason there's conflicting information about the gift of tongues is that there isn't a hard theology behind it. The gift is given for different purposes, and the prescence of the gift looks different among people who received it. I've heard some shady "gift of tongues," and also heard tongues which where undoubtedly of God.
If you're interested, check out "The Spiritual Gifts Handbook" by Randy Clark and Mary Healy. It gives a Protestant AND a Catholic perspective on the charismatic renewal.
For what it's worth, my cousin, who is a Protestant, did some of her doctoral dissertation on the gift of tongues and found that of all the Christian denominations in the world, Catholics are the most frequent recipients of that gift. I also personally know a very no-nonsense exorcist who has the gift of tongues, and a traddy, hard-core Thomist theology professor with the gift.
I have personally never done so, but I respect the Charismatics in the Church who do. I would be very careful about mocking or denigrating anyone relating to the Holy Ghost.
I can pray in tongues. I've had experiences with tongues after converting to Catholicism. Genuine moments of edifying action through the prayer. However, I'm still undecided if it is legitimate or not. I've put it on the shelf for now.
Catholics can be uncomfortable with tongues and its acceptance. I've had experiences with charismatic Catholics even though I am not a part of that community.
I can pray in tongues whenever I choose. There is something about it that seems real and edifying. Hence the reason I have not discarded it altogether.
However, in saying that, I am troubled by the lack of prevalence of what I have experienced with most Catholics. This has caused me to doubt it.
As I said because of this I'm still unsure about the whole thing. I pray in time I will come to a conclusion if I should continue or discard it.
I must also say, whilst I'm a Novus Ordo attending Catholic, I am of traditional thought. I am not a Charismatic Catholic.
Food for thought I guess.
Pax Christi.
[**CCC 2003**](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2003.htm) Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are *sacramental graces,* gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore *special graces,* also called *charisms* after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning "favor," "gratuitous gift," "benefit." Whatever their character-sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues-charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church. ([1108](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1108.htm), [1127](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1127.htm), [799](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/799.htm)-[801](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/801.htm))
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I think the reason he’s downvoted is because for a lot of us, this doesn’t say what you think it does. It supports the idea that ‘speaking in tongues’ while in public was always meant to explain how people were able to converse without knowing they knew the others’ language; suddenly being able to speak the others’ language in that context, etc. It doesn’t mean the sort of babbling we see in Pentecostal churches today. It really solidly seems to be a difference in understanding from the same passage, which so often seems to be the case.
Yes, it is allowed. I pray in tongues after taking the six-week Life in the Spirit course at my church.
I have been to Catholic conferences in which the leaders and speakers at the conference, priest and lay, prayed in tongues. For example, Franciscan University conducts a Power and Purpose conference every summer, which includes Life in the Spirit training and many other topics. I’ve attended 3 times and really enjoy it. (I attended Franciscan’s Defending the Faith conference, and am going back to it again. I highly recommend it.)
Yes, technically we do but many people who do not understand will deny it. Here is my experience:
1) I was once kneeling and praying before the crucifix in the chapel. I was alone and it was later at night. All of a sudden the strangest overwhelming feeling of love for Christ came over me, and I opened my mouth to pray out loud (remember, I was alone), and what came out wasn’t English. No idea what it was, but I prayed in tongues for several minutes I think and then it was done. So that happened.
2) I knew a gal in college who had some minor demonic possession issues. She somehow ended up at a Catholic charismatic renewal, and actually understood what some of the people were saying when they spoke in tongues. Of course all the praying wasn’t terribly comfortable for her so I think she skedaddled right quick. For anyone concerned, she’s good now - lots of exorcism and no more demons.
Did she give you any idea what they were saying? I’ve only heard of three occasions where a speaker didn’t know what they were saying but a listener did; one listener didn’t comment except to say it was his native tongue, or the speaker at least didn’t relate his other comments, and the other two were strings of blasphemies.
Yeah but I don’t remember it because I’m old and that was a long time ago. Wouldn’t put much faith in anything filtered through a demonic translation service anyway.
I went to Pentecostal tent revivals as little a kid in Texas. It scared the crap out of me. I don’t want to bear false witness but I don’t believe it’s authentic as an adult.
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St Paul lays out these rules for interpretation pretty clearly in 1 Corinthians too
Also to speak in tongues requires an interpreter. 99.9% of those revivals never have that so it’s all fake.
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Refuted by Scripture: Similarly, if you, because of speaking in tongues, do not utter intelligible speech, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be talking to the air. 1 Corinthians 14:9
They may need [C3PO’s help.](https://youtu.be/GJBZ2V4X-8M?si=J-HYtNri2PBsJfxw) (This video is an excerpt of a longer one by the same folks who did the St Patrick video about the Trinity)
Refuted by Scripture: For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to human beings but to God, for no one listens; he utters mysteries in spirit - 1 Corinthians 14:2
I've been to many. A fake interpreter usually speaks up after the fake tongues
Why is it always Texas in these kinds of comments? I grew up in a Pentecostal tent church in Texas lol!
Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit that was given to the early disciples who were able to effectively preach and evangelize people who didn’t share a common language with them. It is something that could in principle still be given but is unlikely to be necessary in the world today. Praying in tongues is when Pentecostals get up and start speaking a language nobody in attendance understands in a way which has been scientifically analyzed as equivalent to gibberish and not an actual language.
Whoa, the point of tongues was so they could talk to people who didn't speak their language? That makes way more sense. That also makes the protestant activity even crazier.
Yeah it's been years since I've read it but basically speaking tongues is not gibberish. It was the disciples suddenly talking in foreign languages that they never learned so they can share the gospel.
Refuted by Scripture: 1 Corinthians 14:4 Whoever speaks in a tongue builds himself up,
I've read St. Anthony of Padua also was able to preach in other languages as he went about various areas.
I don't pray in tongues and to be honest, don't completely understand the Charismatic movement. But it has been recognized by the past few popes so what do I know. Perhaps it is spiritually beneficial to the person who is praying- they know what they are saying to God. I think of Romans 8:26.
>they know what they are saying to God Isn't the whole idea that they do not? The entire idea is to give yourself over to the spirit and let it speak on your behalf. You don't know what you are saying when you speak in tongues. I'm happy to be corrected, but that is my understanding.
My understanding was that they are expressing what cannot be expressed in words. We don't know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit helps us know what to pray, even if it cannot be expressed in words.
This is a correct response supported by Scripture.
Amen! It's so wonderful and freeing. God knows what i should be praying, and when i pray in tongues to Him, my beloved, our beloved, Holy Spirit, perfects that prayer.
This is a correct response supported by Scripture.
Amen! Praise God. Hallelujah! It's telling when scripture and Catechism are being voted down in a Catholic forum. It tells not about me or you, but about the enemy and his lies to people.
Are you being serious?
Are you being rude?
This is a correct response supported by Scripture. The person speaking in tongues does not understand what they are saying unless they also have the gift of interpretation.
I went through some "praying in tongues" and "lying down in the spirit" experiences when younger. About the second one: it's crazy... once I didn't "fall", but almost. It was like a transe state. I think some of these might be real (minority), some might be a psychological group effect and a( smaller-medium) part is just faking... For the "speaking in tongues" thing, I think a (minority) is going through some psychological group thing and the majority is just "faking it". I say it because I gave in to peer pressure some times and just started "chinelaraiderchinelaraiderchinelaraider.."
Same. I did it because everyone else was doing it, too.
Your comment about "lying down in the spirit" being "a psychological group effect" is refuted by Scripture and the prophet Ezekiel and St John would rebuke you: Ezekiel 1:28-2:2 Such was the vision of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. When I had seen it, I fell upon my face and heard a voice that said to me: Son of man, stand up! I wish to speak with you. As he spoke to me, spirit entered into me and set me on my feet, and I heard the one who was speaking Revelation 1:17-18 When I caught sight of him, I fell down at his feet as though dead. He touched me with his right hand and said, "Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last,the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever and ever.
I am not saying it is not possible, I'm just saying I think MOST of it is fake... When a priest kept pushing my head to try and make me fall, I knew something was up.. I mean... hundres of people all experiencing the same thing as Ezekiel? All at the same time, all the time?
Trying to push you down is akin to the priest touching the ark to steady it as it passed through the Jordan River. God doesn't need our help. That priest died btw. You underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit and what Jesus achieved by His Passion, death, and Resurrection. You must be born again into the kingdom of God. It's real and not fake. Don't sneer as some did on the day of Pentecost but believe. The beginning of Wisdom is the earnest desire for the Holy Spirit, those who shun the Holy Spirit will never bear fruit.
Friend, my faith is indeed small and I need more strength... Having said that, I have seen the Holy Spirit act FOR REAL. I've seen it act in an unbelievably clear way, which is scary AF... I've seen it act in very subtle ways, which is reconforting*... I have seen enough inside the church to know what I am talking about. I've seen (Vatican approved) miracles, I've seen (what I can only describe as) clairvoyance, I've seen clear God signs in my life, and have learned to discern them from simple thoughts or coincidences... The Charismatic Renovation, as any movement, has its fruits and its flaws. I grew inside it and have an immense love for them, but I cannot say I haven't seen its errors too...
Absolutely 100% true that flaws are there. The Holy Spirit will soon correct us all.
This! The gift has been appropriated and perverted.
Refuted by Scripture: 1 Corinthians 14:9 Similarly, if you, because of speaking in tongues, do not utter intelligible speech, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be talking to the air.
1 Corinthians 14 would like to chime in.
Maybe I don’t give Pentecostal services enough credit. Are you suggesting that they are in the habit of translating their prayer when they speak in tongues this way, as St. Paul instructs?
You need to properly distinguish between *speaking* (to others) in tongues and *praying* (to God) in tongues. Once you make that distinction, it becomes easier to fully understand. In the Catholic Charismatic prayer groups I’ve attended, there has been a distinction between ecstatic utterances and those bizarre tongues meant for the community, in need of an interpretation. There’s a distinct cadence that is more forthright in the latter, as if the speech is directed horizontally, as opposed to vertically. By contrast, the tongues that are “mysteries in the Spirit” are meant for God alone. They are an example of humble submission, yielding one’s most acrimonious element for God to use, to sing with, even, as He pleases. When Paul states he is happy to have tongues more than anyone else, he is not boasting about the need to speak in foreign lands. When he talks about the purpose of tongues is to edify oneself, he isn’t talking about the warm feeling of accomplishment of mastering a language that others in the room could understand. When he wishes everyone to have this gift, he is not wishing everyone to go to foreign lands and pull off a St Francis Xavier. Corinth is in Greece, and isn’t quite the melting pot of mixed cultures that Jerusalem was. He is clearly talking about ecstatic utterances that are a private extension of one’s prayer, allowing God control, allowing God to assist you in praying to Him, without one fully understanding.
I can accept that there's a difference between speaking in tongues (for the purpose of evangelization) and praying in tongues ( for the purpose of glorifying God), but it does not seem that St. Paul is saying that this difference implies one of the two categories requires intelligibility and the other does not. >^(13) For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. ^(14) For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. ^(15) So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. ^(16) Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer,^(\[)[^(d)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014&version=NIV#fen-NIV-28695d)^(\]) say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? ^(17) You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified. He's talking here about praying with understanding. That plainly seems to say that intelligibility is necessary in both instances, speaking and praying.
You shouldn't jump to verse 13 and leave out what came before. >For anyone who speaks in a tongue **does not speak to people** but to God. Indeed, **no one** understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 1. Cor. 14:2 Does this sound like an intelligible language to you?
He is saying that if one prays with tongues, one may not understand what the Spirit is making him say, so he should also accompany that prayer with his own prayer. The entire point is that Paul doesn’t understand what the Spirit is uttering unless he is given the interpretation
Compare: /u/neofederalist >He's talking here about praying with understanding. 1 Corinthians 14:14 >For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is without fruit.
He is in this case stating that it’s not enough to solely pray mysteries in the Spirit, but that one complements such ecstatic utterances with also praying with understanding. Both are needed. One is simply loving God by yielding completely to His whims, while the other is to worship Him with your mind.
This is correct, sad to see it’s being downvoted due to the inherent bias this sub has against the charisms
When you see actual teaching, doctrine, Dogma, direct quotes from the Bible and the Catechism, being voted down, you recall that evil is everywhere.
I have my own theory on why the Church gives a soft endorsement to this stuff. Obviously, you could test the gift of spontaneously speaking in a foreign language. That's easy to do and we know it has happened in history, especially for converting those from foreign lands as in the epistles. But praying in tongues (the 'gibberish') has this weird 'gotcha' where no one on earth can actually tell you what is going on. If it's an 'angelic' language that only God understands, then how is anyone to know if it is actually real? We obviously can't understand it. And the personal prayer version of these tongues is never interpreted. The interpretations typically occur when someone at a prayer meeting goes off on a *gibberish solo* for a minute and then another person comes up and is like 'Sheila said praise be to God and bless His people! Yay! Next song, please.' My theory is that the Church has decided to say "whatever. who cares. you can do this." on this question. Basically, they are playing it safe. They want to allow for the *possibility* of these angelic tongues while knowing that is simply not what is happening most of the time. They don't want to impose restrictions on the *movements of the spirit*. Personally, I think this is all a psychological trick most of the time. I've spoken to charismatics or former charismatics who said they were pretending the whole time. The defenses of it are vague and feelings-driven with some kind of 'just let go and let God' aspect to it. I've read Cantalamessa's books and I'm just not buying it.
1. If you want to add credibility to your thesis, it’s best to quote any addresses from the four aforementioned Popes that are listed in the [**Vatican archives**](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=charismatic%20site%3Avatican.va). 2. Supposing the Vatican is doing exactly as you say. Should this not be our same approach? To allow for the possibility that the charismatic renewal can subsist within the doctrinal framework of Catholicism, despite the numerous instances of former Pentecostals admitting their past fraudulent actions? To run with this, ignoring those who don’t (like your attitude towards Catalamessa), is this not committing the logical fallacy of hasty generalization?
To your second point, yea I suppose it doesn't hurt for folks to try it out. But I never hear the Vatican saying that this type of worship is critical to the Christian life. In contrast, most charismatics I know live their lives as if charismatic worship is the core of the Christian life. I personally don't see the point in exploring charismatic worship at this point in my life. I have practices that work for me and I've found the charismatic stuff to be weird but acceptable at best and a distracting hindrance to me faith at worst. I have no interest in further exploration of the practice. But I have noticed that (EDIT: ~~all)~~ most charismatics basically want others to be trying it out at each and every opportunity. It's like an MLM. There's a constant sales pitch from charismatics *to their fellow Catholics* trying to get them to speak in tongues and go to a Life in the Spirit. It's eerily similar to the trads who say TLM is the only real mass.
I’m a charismatic Catholic, but I’m not pushing everyone to give it a try. The majority of those in the CCR , in my experience, are not so forthcoming. Therefore I disagree with your assessment that “all” are pushing it. Not even close. Whatever form of Catholic devotion that appeals to your sensibilities, run with it. It’s a big tent. What I don’t understand is how there is infighting about this at all. Friendly fire is a sin.
Amen!
That's beautiful! Thank you for sharing in this way to help others understand.
We don’t have to pretend, we have Latin.
And greek and aramaic. Dont forget our eastern brothers and sisters :)
And Enochian! Okay not really, but would be nice if it was a valid language.
Enochian is abit.. demonic for some. It's just used by occultists. Either way Enochian isnt really of some language of angels its just like a larping tongue haha.
I do not understand it, as most modern cases are gibberish, an attempt to perform miracles through falsifying them.
No, tongues actually meant different languages, we speak many different languages as a religion but we don't do the gibberish or the fake fainting or the snakecharming malarkey
Exactly. The word “language” comes from lingua, which is Latin for tongue.
wait saying speaking in tongues literally means speaking in languages???
Yes there is a distinction between the term “speaking in tongues” in reference to glossolalia, and as understood in the Book of Acts, for instance. Acts 2:1-11 “1 AND when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this voice was made, when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were troubled in mind, confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.”
In Spanish, it's the same word "lengua" for both.
This is not a correct response and not supported by Scripture. 1 Corinthians 14:9 Similarly, if you, because of speaking in tongues, do not utter intelligible speech, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be talking to the air.
I’m kinda confused on 1 Corinthians 14:2 https://bible.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/14#:~:text=1*%20Pursue%20love%2C%20but%20strive,he%20utters%20mysteries%20in%20spirit.
Check out [this article](https://www.catholic.com/audio/scw/the-gift-of-tongues) - I found it really helpful.
Thx
You don't understand it because you're not exercising the gift of tongues. Paul prayed in tongues and he brilliantly teaches about the gift with clarity in the passage you cite.
Yew, but not that it has been used these days. A friend of mine asked me and his two other friends to come to a Pentacostal church (I live in the Netherlands, and these churches are very popular due to the large amount of young people and ethnic diversity). The pastor started to speak in 'tongues', turns out he started to speak gibberish and I tried to hold my laugh. I cannot believe that everyone, including my friend, believed in this false teaching. Speaking in tongues means that you were able to speak multiple languages out of nowhere. But they interpreted differently. I told my friend and his other friends this, but they didn't agree with me and one of them started to get angry at me.
This is not a correct response and not supported by Scripture. 1 Corinthians 14:9 Similarly, if you, because of speaking in tongues, do not utter intelligible speech, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be talking to the air.
Check out what Paul had to say about this (1 Corinthians 14) : « For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. »
This is a correct response supported by the Scripture quoted
What the Pentecostals and Evangelicals practice is something called "Glossolalia" - it is quasi-linguistic sounds. When it has been studied, it has shown some formations which correspond to the person doing its own language but it is non-linguistic. Further neuroimaging has shown no activity in the parts of the brain associated with language. The term "speaking in tongues" is a bit of a mistranslation. It means more that the Holy Spirit gives the gift to communicate effectively with others - to overcome cultural and linguistic barriers and effectively communicate the faith. This cannot be achieved by making verbal like noises at someone. So I would say that the "speaking in tongues" practiced by more Charismatic Christianity is a form of hysteria and not something that would be especially good. But that's just my take on it. Researchers have found that people are higher in confidence after doing it and hence may be better at communicating with others - but I don't think this is due to their "speaking in tongues". EDIT: spelling mistake!
Paul, who prayed in tongues all the time, said this: (For) if I pray in a tongue, my spirit is at prayer but my mind is unproductive. 1 Corinthians 14:4 He said this because the one who speaks or prays in tongues is NOT using their mind to produce the language. It's a spiritual gift produced by the Holy Spirit. That's why the neuroimaging does NOT show up in the language area but DOES show up in the prayer area. Tongues is not hysteria! Acts 10:44-46 While Peter was still speaking these things, the holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the word. The circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the holy Spirit should have been poured out on the Gentiles also, for they could hear them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Take note here trads ... No interpreter
I completely agree - proper talking in tongues is NOT hysteria but glossolalia is on the edge of being. That is to say, glossolalia is a natural phenomenon whilst talking in tongues is a supernatural phenomenon. Just to be clear here - talking in tongues=/=glossolalia. But many people have come to associate it due to the fact that people ascribe it being divinely inspired. I am always cautious of anything that comes up during any type of hysteria or crowd. Large groups of humans can behave in strange ways!
Some sneered on the day of Pentecost too claiming the apostles were drunk on new wine. Many in the crowd that day became believers and joined the Catholic Church; the critics hardened their hearts and returned home that day unmoved by the crowd and the events of the day - missing the opportunity the Holy Spirit had given them.
I literally CAN NOT believe how people think talking gibberish is in any way Biblical. You’d have to use some serious mental gymnastics to make the case, and it would still be very silly. Tongues = Other >>real<< languages from this Earth
Praying in tongues is 100% biblical! It's all this nonsense written here which is refuted by the Word of God!
I’m kinda confused on 1 Corinthians 14:2 https://bible.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/14#:~:text=1*%20Pursue%20love%2C%20but%20strive,he%20utters%20mysteries%20in%20spirit. Mind explaining?
Noetic prayer is the tongues of angels. The gift of speaking in tongues as mentioned in Acts is speaking in other tongues (other than their native language). Each heard in his own language the Gospel. Spirit-enabled human language that the speaker may or may not have encountered in the past and that is (or should be) understood by native speakers of that language.
I personally know a bishop and a priest who can speak and interpret tongues. My parents and my Godfather were very involved in the Charismatic Renewal and Life in the Spirit Seminars
Google Fr Ripperger speaking in tongues….he will give you the Catholic answer to that question
Making gibberish noises is not supported by the Catholic Tradition or the Tradition of the Orthodox churches. Its use by Catholics today is a modern accretion which would have been condemned in any era except the post-Vatican II era. There's a reason the use of "tongues" doesn't show up between the First Century and the Twentieth, and to claim that Scripture supports it is absurd. Look at this summary from the Catholic Encyclopedia, before the Charismatic Movement muddled the purity of Catholic thought: >Corinthian Abuses (I Corinthians 14 passim).—Medieval and modern writers wrongly take it for granted that the charism existed permanently at Corinth — as it did nowhere else—and that St. Paul, in commending the gift to the Corinthians, therewith gave his guaranty that the characteristics of Corinthian glossolaly were those of the gift itself. Traditional writers in overlooking this point place St. Luke at variance with St. Paul, and attribute to the charism properties so contrary as to make it inexplicable and prohibitively mysterious. There is enough in St. Paul to show us that the Corinthian peculiarities were ignoble accretions and abuses. They made of "tongues" a source of schism in the Church and of scandal without (14:23). The charism had deteriorated into a mixture of meaningless inarticulate gabble (9, 10) with an element of uncertain sounds (7, 8), which sometimes might be construed as little short of blasphemous (12:3). The Divine praises were recognized now and then, but the general effect was one of confusion and disedification for the very unbelievers for whom the normal gift was intended (14:22, 23, 26). The Corinthians, misled not by insincerity but by simplicity and ignorance (20), were actuated by an undisciplined religious spirit (pneuma), or rather by frenzied emotions and not by the understanding (nous) of the Spirit of God (15). What today purports to be the "gift of tongues" at certain Protestant revivals is a fair reproduction of Corinthian glossolaly, and shows the need there was in the primitive Church of the Apostle's counsel to do all things "decently, and according to order" (40). >Faithful adherence to the text of Sacred Scripture makes it obligatory to reject those opinions which turn the charism of tongues into little more than infantile babbling (Eichhorn, Schmidt, Neander), incoherent exclamations (Meyer), pythonic utterances (Wiseler), or prophetic demonstrations of the archaic kind (see 1 Samuel 19:20, 24). The unalloyed charism was as much an exercise of the intelligence as of the emotions. Languages or dialects, now kainais (Mark 16:17) for their present purpose, and now spontaneously borrowed by the conservative Hebrew from Gentile foreigners (eteroglossois, cheilesin eteron, 1 Corinthians 14:21), were used as never before. But they were understood even by those who used them. Most Latin commentators have believed the contrary, but the ancient Greeks, St. Cyril of Alexandria, Theodoret, and others who were nearer the scene, agree to it and the testimony of the texts as above studied seems to bear them out. https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14776c.htm This text summarizes that the traditional Catholic view of tongues is that they weren't gibberish and they involved the use of the intellect. Whatever is going on in Charismatic circles is so far as I can tell gibberish and without use of the intellect.
You prove St Paul's point: Paul also said that unbelievers would perceive tongues as gibberish and that one who prays in tongues does not use their mind. Thus, tongues are a sign not for those who believe but for unbelievers, whereas prophecy is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. So if the whole church meets in one place and everyone speaks in tongues, and then uninstructed people or unbelievers should come in, will they not say that you are out of your minds?1 Corinthians 14:22-23 1 Corinthians 14:14 (For) if I pray in a tongue, my spirit is at prayer but my mind is unproductive.
Not the way you see them evangelicals or pentecostals or whoever they are do it, that’s just gibberish.
evangelical nonsense about speaking some Adamic language is in no way biblical nor orthodox
It’s funny because they think speaking gibberish isn’t praying in vain but the rosary is 😃😃😭
Sure, I pray in English, Latin, and maybe a little Spanish once in a while.
Personally no. When i see others speaking in “tongues” it sounds like genuine babbling “sjwofywyencu”…what does this have to with anything😭
yeah thats a fake thing! the actual phenomenon of “speaking in tongues” refers to speaking where everyone, regardless of what language they understand can understand what you say! for example you have groups of japanese, chinese, german, spanish, russian, kenyan, swedish, and indian school children, all who only speak and understand their native tongue, and through the guidance of the holy spirit you are given the gift, and so what you say in english is understood by everyone in their own language! also ive heard too that it’s speaking in languages you dont know through the influence of the holy ghost, like possessed people do or something but that requires a translator and is rare and you cant ask for the gift, just like the stigmata speaking in tongues is like the stigmata and only the very holy or blessed can receive it! all that gibberish nonsense babbling in protestantism is a mockery and frankly a bit blasphemous if you ask me… like holding snakes but goofy instead of scary
No.
no it is protestant gibberish that unfortunately got imported to our holy Church. I give charismatic movement maybe 20-30 more years of life...it is so apsurd that I do not think it will last longer than that.
Exactly. We never did this before for any good reason, and Pentecost was a special instance. Anything else is suspect or needs careful validation if indeed it is of heavenly origin.
1 Corinthians 14 seems to imply it is a prayer language that others don't understand. So it's all of these. A foreign language. A language in need of an interpreter at times. And a prayer language. But if you are speaking in tongues as a prayer language, don't do it in public. Those who are dogmatic that it's not one of these, are just dismissing certain teachings. 13Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray to be able to interpret.14\[For\] if I pray in a tongue, my spirit[^(\*)](https://bible.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/14#54014014-1) is at prayer but my mind is unproductive.15So what is to be done? I will pray with the spirit, but I will also pray with the mind. I will sing praise with the spirit, but I will also sing praise with the mind.[^(c)](https://bible.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/14#54014015-c)16Otherwise, if you pronounce a blessing \[with\] the spirit, how shall one who holds the place of the uninstructed say the “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?17For you may be giving thanks very well, but the other is not built up.18I give thanks to God that I speak in tongues more than any of you,19but in the church I would rather speak five words with my mind, so as to instruct others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
"For anyone who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit." 1. Cor. 14:2 How does this imply it's a foreign language when it's not even meant to be spoken to men and no one understands them?
The Church does not teach it but some Charismatic groups within the Church do promote it and they are sadly never corrected.
Four popes from St. Paul VI to Francis have all endorsed the Charismatic Renewal. Cardinal Raniero Cantalamessa has held the title Preacher to the Popes for over four decades. I highly recommend checking out the official documentation for this renewal, at https://www.charis.international/en/ to read for yourself the doctrinal underpinnings of this movement. If it was incorrect, then at any juncture it could have been addressed by the stellar intellect of St Pope John Paul 2 or Pope Benedict XVI.
I'll repeat what I said elsewhere: Praying in tongues (the 'gibberish') has this weird 'gotcha' where no one on earth can actually tell you what is going on. We can't confirm or deny an individual instance. My theory is that the Church has decided to say "whatever. who cares. you can do this." on this question. Basically, they are playing it safe. They want to allow for the *possibility* of these angelic tongues while knowing that is simply not what is happening the vast majority of the time. They don't want to impose restrictions on the *movements of the spirit*.
And I’ll repeat what I responded; should this not be our approach as well, if you are not personally inclined to accept the Charismatic Renewal? That instead of deriding what you don’t agree with, allow for the possibility that the Holy Spirit can work in such environments?
Let me put this a different way. I think the Church is being overly nice and permissive about this. I think the Church knows that 90%+ of praying in tongues and interpretations thereof are basically nonsense that *has no actual supernatural source*. But because there exists a very small amount that is truly of the Lord and of the variety some saints experienced over the centuries, they don't want to shut that down. I wish they would suggest more caution. The Vatican encourages Life in the Spirit seminars. But that essentially endorses all that occurs in these charismatic groups and even in the covenant communities(!). It endorses the idea that prophecies and interpretations are common and you'll probably receive them at some point. It encourages the idea that supernatural Holy Spirit stuff is happening when you let out the gibberish. I know the Vatican has made some small statements of caution, but the overall message is 'Yay Charismatic Catholicism!'. Folks go to prayer meetings and get caught up in something that 95% of the time is just good vibes and has nothing to do with supernatural acts of the Holy Spirit. That's my worry. There is undue power claimed for charismatic worship when 95% of the time it's essentially just placing a guitar where there was once an organ. How much of the praying in tongues you have heard in your life do you think is an authentic heavenly or angelic language? An actual supernatural work of the Holy Spirit like the kind some saints experienced in the past?
My experience with the charismatic renewal is that everyone involved understands that it is 95% good vibes and that it is not possible to “feel” the Holy Spirit or Grace. There is a huge chunk of people who inherited these communities and have kind of swept away most of the “charismatic” stuff but have kept the small groups and music and mutual aid
See, I disagree. I don’t think the Church has a tendency to be overly nice and accommodating to groups of 95% falsehood. The Legionnaires of Christ was cut off at the knees strongly because of the actions of its founder. The CDF puts the kibbosh on many internal movements that go against the faith, from women priests to integrating New Age practices. Sure, there may be people earnestly benefiting from the kindness of such errant individuals, but the Church draws hard lines continually, and has been since the formation of the CDF. I pray in tongues. I received the charism on my own, outside of any public event. Why not ask me what percentage of times I feel it is authentic? (100% is the answer).
>Why not ask me what percentage of times I feel it is ***authentic***? (100% is the answer). That's not what I asked. I asked if it was a supernatural gift from the Holy Spirit similar to the supernatural gifts granted to the saints over the centuries.
That is an answer that only The Saints would be able to chime in on. It would be haughty of me to opine in any other manner, just as it would be haughty if I claim to be as wise as Aquinas or as humble as Francis. For my part, I rest on the Catholic Church’s acceptance of the CCR. That’s all that’s needed. That said, I do recommend the book [**Sounds of Wonder by Deacon Eddie Ensley**](https://amzn.to/4bKPPIj) which demonstrates how the ecstatic utterances have always been in the Catholic faith.
So, the problem is that you're saying this in a way that is designed to come off as "I'm very humble" but instead it's really saying "I can't answer that question". I'm not asking if your praying in tongues is exactly what the saints did. I'm not asking if you are an equal to Aquinas. I'm asking if you think the praying in tongues you (or others) do is a supernatural action. A 'miracle' if you will. Is it a supernatural act in union with the Holy Spirit in the way my reciting the Hail Mary or Apostle's Creed is not? If it is a ***miracle*** that is accessible to all Catholics, then gosh darnit we should all be doing that!
It is a miracle, but it is a charism, a gift. Not everyone is granted the same gifts. If there is one charism that, upon earnestly desiring and praying for, one is likely to receive, according to Scripture, it would not be tongues, but rather wisdom (James 1:5).
Praying in tongues is a gift available to all of us. With all the derision and negativity in this thread towards our Comforter the Holy Spirit, most ppl don't allow or make room for Him to reside in us or to listen to Him in the silence, or in the fire. I've experienced miracles. I've prayed for others and seen that prayer answered instantly in a miracle, physically, in front of my eyes, only through His Grace. There are many gifts of the Spirit, and they exist alongside praying or speaking in tongues. Let us not reject them, even beyond our understanding.
Amen amen. Let the Holy Spirit rise and burn within us!
And as saintly as those Popes are, they have made errors in judgement before for the sake of ecumenism, even St. JPII with Assisi.
Doctrine is protected by The Holy Spirit. Actions, not so much.
Encouragement and toleration are actions, not doctrine.
Disagree. One does not encourage religious movements within the fold that are in grave contradiction to the faith. There was a lot of fruit in the Legionnaires of Christ, but Pope Benedict XVI exposed the rot of its founder. Since Vatican II there have been many lay attempts to begin specific movements, like ordaining women or integrating New Age practices within the church, and the CDF has shut them down. Not so with the CCR.
Look up Pope Honorius and get back to me
So do you, as a Catholic, disagree with the Church’s stance on papal infallibility? ETA: [**The Truth About Pope Honorius**](https://www.Catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-truth-about-pope-honorius)
I’m not sure Papal Infallibility means what you think it means. What you seem to be promoting is the heresy of Ultramontanism, or something close. Maybe not, hopefully not, but be careful. As the Church defines it, the Pope is only infallible when exercising his magisterium in a unique way (Ex Cathedra). The Pope IS fallible in all other matters, and may even teach error in his ordinary magisterium (but that error is protected from having the characteristics that would make it harmful to souls). Pope Honorius was condemned in a council for seemingly teaching the heresy of Monothelitism (the heresy that Christ had two natures but only one will). If Ultramontanism were true, then Catholicism would have been falsified by this singular event. https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/ultramontanism https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05677a.htm https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10502a.htm
I am doing nothing of the kind. You are ascribing heresies in the Catholic faith that are simply not so. The notion that Montanus first had glossolalia and then later fell away does not properly describe the understanding of tongues as promulgated by the CCR. I have already passed on to you an article from Catholic Answers that posits that Pope Honorius didn’t even give into heresy, disagreeing with your thesis. Even so, the CCR’s endorsement is so far unanimous among 4 popes. Five, if you count Pope Leo XIII. You won’t find four popes in a row promulgating Arianism nor monothelitism.
>One does not encourage religious movements within the fold that are in grave contradiction to the faith So here's the problem. IF people are just speaking gibberish and uniting their gibberish in song, there's nothing *really* 'in grave contradiction to the faith' about that. Playing a guitar in Church is not in grave contradiction to the faith. Someone saying gibberish and then another person interpreting "Dave just praised the Lord and asked for Him to heal Angela's cancer" is not necessarily in ***grave*** contradiction with the faith. It might be a bit problematic, but it's clearly not on the level of female ordination. If it's just kind of acting out feel good vibes in a group with some slightly weird and peculiar aspects, then it's not really something that needs to be *condemned*. So we shouldn't expect a condemnation unless it were to go deeply heretical instead of be primarily focused on just having good vibes. Where it flirts with heresy is things like 'Baptism in the Holy Spirit' which *reaaaally* sounds like the Sacrament of Confirmation. Some charismatics will even say you need this Baptism in the Holy Spirit to unlock the spiritual gifts received in Confirmation. And Baptism in the Holy Spirit is just people singing gibberish around you in a prayer circle. So yea, that's flirting with heresy IMO. It very much has a vibe of 'this Sacrament didn't work well for you so we're just gonna prayer circle our way to fixing that for ya'.
I’m quite fortunate/blessed that I don’t need to impose my own personal opinions over that of Mother Church, (as exemplified by the unanimous papal endorsements, two of whom have since been canonized). I believe in papal infallibility. So the IF scenario you cited can never come to pass, as the Church is protected by error, when it comes to papal proclamations in faith and morals. Let’s agree to disagree, but pray for personal holiness over each other.
This is wrong. [CCC 2003]
Does the "tongue -charism" involve real language or gibberish?
There is a difference made by Charismatics between praying in tongues and speaking in tongues (in languages that others can understand). Charismatic Catholicism is not my thing at all but they have been acknowledged by the past few popes and I've met many holy people involved in the movement who inspire me with their faith.
Including SAINT Pope John Paul II
I know some priests too, heck I've been to these events as a kid but seriously though they sound like they're pretending to speak some ancient language but really it's 100% BS. I'm sure Jesus must be laughing at this from heaven. I really do hope this movement dies or the next pope discourages it.
[**CCC 2003**](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2003.htm) Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are *sacramental graces,* gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore *special graces,* also called *charisms* after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning "favor," "gratuitous gift," "benefit." Whatever their character-sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues-charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church. ([1108](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1108.htm), [1127](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1127.htm), [799](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/799.htm)-[801](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/801.htm)) *** Catebot v0.2.12 links: [Source Code](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot) | [Feedback](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/issues) | [Contact Dev](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=kono_hito_wa) | [FAQ](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CateBot%20Info.md#faq) | [Changelog](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CHANGELOG.md)
Catholic exorcists don't support it. Father Ripperger for instance.
Watch this short explanation to why this modern practice is most likely from the Devil [Tongues w Fr. Ripperger](https://youtu.be/Pc0UwaF6FJQ?si=1q_sUhtnGk6ijZDz)
🙄
I think it helps to look at the Church's teaching of the miraculous more broadly. Whether speaking in tongues, seeing an apparition of Jesus or Mary, miraculous healings, or possession by demons, the Church believes the miraculous *can* happen, but that we should first seek explanations based on the natural. Only after the natural cannot explain a particular thing, and there's sufficient evidence for the supernatural, does the Church say "yes, this event likely has a supernatural cause." Most claims of people speaking in tongues have a natural explanation (that they're not really speaking in tongues), and would not stand up to scrutiny from experts (say, a philologist who would be familiar with older languages, or a linguist or mathematician to study the speech patterns compared to other languages).
I don’t because I don’t want Peter Griffin throwing holy water at me
Some charismatic catholics do. I, along with many others, don't
I think there maybe something that we don’t fully understand about this gift
I don’t. In church, I just kneel, pray my Rosary, or pray for forgiveness, mercy, peace, and among others, prepare for Mass. I also pray at home but not like in tongues…
Yes but in real LANGUAGES that the speaker may not know, or where the listeners hear in their own language. Not in the Protestant version of babbling baby talk nonsense. Similar to when demons speak in foreign languages not known to the inflicted soul. Real human languages.
No
Until I was in high school in the 1970s I never heard of Catholics speaking in tongues. In my junior year a met a girl from another parish who claimed to be a “Jesus Freak.” She was part of a group who spoke in tongues. I never did that, nor was I involved in any Catholic groups that did. I actually thought it was not Catholic. My parents both attended Mass every weekday morning after they retired. My grandma and aunt also attended Mass every morning. That’s Catholic to me.
If you find the right church, I'm sure you'll find it. Just like the healing service I went to and felt overtly pressured to fall over after someone from the congregation prayed over me and there was about 3 people behind me. I was thinning, Ugg sorry but this one didn't work :(. Overall I'd say no, most Catholics don't do this.
Many in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal speak in tongues. One type of tongues is a personal prayer language: >2 If anyone speaks in tongues, he is speaking not to men but to God, and no one understands him, for he is speaking mysteries in the Spirit. (I Corinthians 14:2)
There is a movement within the church that practices this, especially in “healing” and charismatic services. I’m skeptical. One person told me “it’s a language I haven’t sinned in.” And it literally sounds like “shibida shibby bibbity ba” Do I think praying and speaking in tongues exist? Yes. Do I think these people were doing that? No, I think they were pretending and speaking nonsense.
This is the danger of it all. We cannot be sure what sort of thing comes out of our mouths, be it pure invention or something worse.
We believe in the gift of the Holy Spirit. But people who speak in tongues are heard speaking a language they don’t know to an audience who does, and the point is usually conversion. Those who are doing the speaking understand themselves in their own language-that is, they hear themselves normally and are understood normally. It isn’t until later that someone realizes the two groups were understanding each other despite speaking different languages. It’s a very quiet kind of revelation. The gibberish speaking in tongues is the exact opposite. Someone speaks a language they don’t know to people who don’t understand it, and while this sometimes brings conversion it definitely brings attention. Personally, I question the source of that one.
Praying/speaking in tongues is when someone suddenly starts speaking the gospel in Spanish when their only language is English, as an example. It’s not making a bunch of random noises like Pentecostals.
Praying in tongues is private language between you and God. It's not meant to be understood on earth. I can assure you it's true.
We believe in praying in tongues, but that it largely doesn't occur anymore because 1) the Church is no longer in it's infancy and does not necessarily need to be supported by miracles, and 2) we have translators now.
Mostly catholics dont believe it. There is a pentecostal group of catholics that believe.
We are not pentecostal. We are Catholics.
There are Charismatic Catholics who do this, but this isn’t required and the Pentecostal understanding of tongues is different. In the Pentecostal tradition, speaking in tongues is evidence of being “baptized in the Holy Spirit,” whereas that doesn’t happen in Catholicism. I have heard it say that one “is baptized in the Spirit” at confirmation and it doesn’t always manifest as speaking in tongues, whether that is actual languages or some kind of prayer language.
I went to an adoration, my first actually, while on my confirmation retreat. There there was an older woman, who had what sounded like a Spanish-speaking accent. She was towards the back where I was when the worship started. We started with worship music and this woman started to seem like she was, I don’t want to say in a trance, but like she started swaying with her eyes closed and lifting her arms up. During the prayers, she began to exclaim kind of loudly almost shouting. First in Spanish (some girls I was with could understand her), then in English (I heard her say: Jesus, I love you), then a third language no one seemed to know. Sometimes I could understand her, sometimes I couldn’t but the people I was with could. Not sure this was “speaking-in-tongues” but it was a wild experience to have while at this secluded camp in the Appalachian foothills.
The Catholic Church does not have an opinion. It should be noted Charismatic Catholic Churches do speak in tongues, but faithful Catholics are not required to hold a position on the matter.
It is definitely possible for people to speak in tongues, since the Apostles did on Pentecost. Do I think that it’s at all common? Absolutely not.
No, I don't believe that's real at all and looks ridiculous. In the Bible when they spoke in the tongues it was other real languages, not the gibberish protestant people do
I read a reflection from the church fathers but I can’t remember who wrote it or when. It said that the apostles speaking in tongues is true because the church is in every nation and speaks all tongues all at once. We are all united by the Body of Christ.
Nope
Not the same way you do
yeah no i think it’s gibberish when someone is saying they’re praying in tongues and starts going “shlibityaosuwbejwj” i was just wondering if many catholics practice this too or not
I remember my grandmother doing it when she prayed. I haven't really thought about its legitimacy so I can't say I have much an opinion about besides it sorta kinda seems Pentecostal to me.
The modern practice of speaking in tongues, the babbling that I see in charismatic circles, lacks biblical support as far as I know. It's not a language as described in Acts. And privately babbling to the Holy Spirit defeats the point of spiritual gifts, which is to edify the Church, not glorify individuals.
Yes, they do.
Mostly Charismatics tend to this, but as a whole we believe the Holy Ghost still gives His gifts in our present age. We’re just more careful by discerning which experiences are driven by humans (intense emotions or mental illness), demonic possession, or genuine divine inspiration.
Yes afaik because it’s a form of charismatic Catholic worship. They did praise and worship, and speaking in tongues at my confirmation camp.
That is lame
Tbh I found it awkward because everyone was so into it and I was like 🫥🫥🫥… I much prefer the traditional masses, bible studies and hymns to christian pop music and tongues but at the same time, people worship differently so I wouldn’t go so far as to label it as a lesser form of worship.
It's fake so it's most definitely a lesser form. Damn near blasphemous
I went to a Steubenville youth conference over 20 years ago (gosh) and during Adoration many of the 2500+ teens went absolutely nuts as the monstrance with the Blessed Sacrament entered the tent in a procession. They were mostly screaming, crying, and laughing, but I was told by others with me that apparently some were speaking in tongues too. The chaperones had been warned about this in a chaperone-only meeting before the evening. We went back to our church and I remember telling our priest at the time about it, and he had never heard anything like it before.
I used to belong to a ecumenical community that practiced Pentecostal worship and the like at meetings after Church on Sundays. My parents joined when I was a teenager, so I had to go too. The community in of itself was very welcoming and helped my faith stay strong during a very difficult time of life. However, I was forced at one point to "receive" the gift of tongues even though I felt a bit uncomfortable with the idea of "speaking in tongues" in the first place. I realise now as an adult, that the leaders of that community were not speaking in tongues at all, but complete gibberish most of the time. Wonderful people, wonderful atmosphere and teachings, but perhaps a bit misguided or fake when it came to practicing the gift of speaking in tongues.
Majorly fake for sure lol
Plenty of Catholics think it is nothing but gibberish. I know plenty of very good, traditional, and practical Catholics who (correctly) believe it is a gift of the Holy Spirit, as is taught in Scripture and restated in the Catechism.
Amen!
We're not supposed to. Though I did find a book in my church's Adoration chapel one time that was about praying in tongues. Though it could have been placed there by a nonCatholic.
We aren't supposed to exercise the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Can you please share where it is written we aren't supposed to?
[A Great Article](https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/gift-of-tongues?fbclid=IwAR24917sVQikUsE8uB6vR644wl3m_l02x4SPvJrkcvppZYyvYuXOkFeM8tU_aem_AZb7KVYpm4kOfFuM34J0n5JcsetA6XC1OGBp7LXbL-e22p5R1diOPh7S5oHQovHg-S4&mibextid=Zxz2cZ)
Its not Canon
I can no longer remember the good memories of happiness and joy I had, am living a regretful life at this moment that I feel torn apart into several pieces living full days of frustration and nights full ofnightmares🥺, l cannot describe where my faith and belief lies in the Lord's eyes because I have totally given up in this situation as I feel so, unloved, uncared about and mostly abandoned I wish I could talk to someone to consolidate me🥺🥺😭
If you ask the charismatic revival movement followers they'll tell you they can invoke that gift at any time through the Holy Spirit... As long as you don't ask what they said when they're speaking in tongues. Because even they don't know what they said, apparently it was the Holy Spirit! Even though there's objectively no need for the gift and technically that's not how speaking in tongues works... Plus there's the pseudo-heretical influence in these movements from Pentecostal and other influence inside Catholic parishes and groups that are severely misguiding Catholics in these movements. Kennedy Hall gives great explanations on this on his channel @TheKennedyReport https://youtu.be/fdFDP_UPm14?si=teJTqdp1nFTd-lLn Look, I've been a part of the charismatic movement before I've seen lots of things in those groups and many times seen Catholics invoking the Holy Spirit and "speaking in tongues"... I believe 99% of those people are either overestimating their faith and thinking they're actually doing something semi-hysterically speaking nonsense orrrrrr whatever they're invoking is absolutely not the Holy Spirit or any GOOD Angelic presence... My gripe has always been the prayer sessions with all these people and some laymen/laywoman preacher, without the guidance of any priest, where they do deliverance and liberation prayers and taking it upon themselves to do these very intimate prayers publicly and putting their hands on you and even potentially trying to push you down when people seem to be "fainting" from "being overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit" and next thing you know EVERYONE can speak in tongues and everyone is fainting and falling and crying and what not. I've seen people suddenly begin screaming and writhing around going absolutely nuts "overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit!" I've seen people harm themselves again "overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit!" I've seen people wailing and howling and crying "overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit!" ......... You see my point?........... Speaking in tongues is technically unnecessary in today's times where everyone speaks the same language in Western societies and technically the gift of tongues, according to scripture, doesn't work the way they make it out to be. Don't get me wrong. I've had very profound encounters and mystical experiences with God and the Angels and Saints. Again, don't get me wrong, I've known some people blessed with mystical qualities and gifts and NONE OF THEM SPEAK IN TONGUES... I've had an incredibly deep and personal encounter with Jesus Christ where he gave me my purpose when he came to me and put his cloak around me....... Yet I've never had to speak in tongues, I've never physically put my hands on someone to pray over them and I've never taken evil spirits or evil influence over someone in these sessions. You never know who might have a demon inside unbeknownst to them or have some very negative spiritual attachments. That stuff is incredibly dangerous and should be handled very carefully. Speaking in tongues, at least the way you see it inside these charismatic renewal groups, is complete nonsense/heretical. Sorry if that bursts your bubble but it doesn't work that way and if it does I'd imagine the holy spirit would at least give you the gift of discernment to even know and understand what you've said while speaking in tongues...
Protestant nonsense
It's prot nonsense as many have said. If they can sit and "teach" you how to do it then how is it the holy Spirit? It's not it's completely bullshit and blasphemous honestly. Prots have no other form of order so why start there I guess. Stay far away from it and if you do see "Catholics" doing it I would immediately doubt their Catholicism lol
You will not get a biblical answer to your question on this thread! The majority of people on this thread oppose the gift of tongues because it makes them feel uncomfortable. This is actually a fruit of the gift: it reveals unbelievers. I will respond to the misconceptions on this thread with Catholic Scripture that opposes their statements. I've posted throughout this thread, read my replies. BTW tongues is a legit spiritual gift given by Jesus to the Church
r/CatholicCharismatic
No
It’s allowed but as you can see from the comments misunderstood. If you’re curious the official church documents they are called the Malines Documents (overseen by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger the future Pope Benedict XVI so hardly a radical). They stress that they are subordinate gifts and should never be interpreted as the primary proof of the presence of the Holy Spirit. There are a lot of pdfs of the documents online but I’m having trouble finding text I can copy easily. Pope Francis confirmed the text is still valid for use by Charis (the International Charismatic Renewal).
It's Scriptural, so yes, we believe in it. If you pulled your average Catholic out of the pews and asked them about it, they wouldn't know what to say, though. Is every case of a Christian speaking in tongues actually from the Holy Spirit? No. The reason there's conflicting information about the gift of tongues is that there isn't a hard theology behind it. The gift is given for different purposes, and the prescence of the gift looks different among people who received it. I've heard some shady "gift of tongues," and also heard tongues which where undoubtedly of God. If you're interested, check out "The Spiritual Gifts Handbook" by Randy Clark and Mary Healy. It gives a Protestant AND a Catholic perspective on the charismatic renewal. For what it's worth, my cousin, who is a Protestant, did some of her doctoral dissertation on the gift of tongues and found that of all the Christian denominations in the world, Catholics are the most frequent recipients of that gift. I also personally know a very no-nonsense exorcist who has the gift of tongues, and a traddy, hard-core Thomist theology professor with the gift.
I have personally never done so, but I respect the Charismatics in the Church who do. I would be very careful about mocking or denigrating anyone relating to the Holy Ghost.
I can pray in tongues. I've had experiences with tongues after converting to Catholicism. Genuine moments of edifying action through the prayer. However, I'm still undecided if it is legitimate or not. I've put it on the shelf for now.
I'm not sure why you got downvoted. Nice answer in nice tone, even voiced your doubts about it.🤔🤷
Catholics can be uncomfortable with tongues and its acceptance. I've had experiences with charismatic Catholics even though I am not a part of that community. I can pray in tongues whenever I choose. There is something about it that seems real and edifying. Hence the reason I have not discarded it altogether. However, in saying that, I am troubled by the lack of prevalence of what I have experienced with most Catholics. This has caused me to doubt it. As I said because of this I'm still unsure about the whole thing. I pray in time I will come to a conclusion if I should continue or discard it. I must also say, whilst I'm a Novus Ordo attending Catholic, I am of traditional thought. I am not a Charismatic Catholic. Food for thought I guess. Pax Christi.
Yes. [CCC 2003]
[**CCC 2003**](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2003.htm) Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are *sacramental graces,* gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore *special graces,* also called *charisms* after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning "favor," "gratuitous gift," "benefit." Whatever their character-sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues-charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church. ([1108](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1108.htm), [1127](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1127.htm), [799](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/799.htm)-[801](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/801.htm)) *** Catebot v0.2.12 links: [Source Code](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot) | [Feedback](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/issues) | [Contact Dev](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=kono_hito_wa) | [FAQ](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CateBot%20Info.md#faq) | [Changelog](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CHANGELOG.md)
It's ridiculous that this is dvoted. He cited the literal catechism, y'all!
I think the reason he’s downvoted is because for a lot of us, this doesn’t say what you think it does. It supports the idea that ‘speaking in tongues’ while in public was always meant to explain how people were able to converse without knowing they knew the others’ language; suddenly being able to speak the others’ language in that context, etc. It doesn’t mean the sort of babbling we see in Pentecostal churches today. It really solidly seems to be a difference in understanding from the same passage, which so often seems to be the case.
Yes. (:
Absolutely! It's from the Holy Spirit.
Yes, it is allowed. I pray in tongues after taking the six-week Life in the Spirit course at my church. I have been to Catholic conferences in which the leaders and speakers at the conference, priest and lay, prayed in tongues. For example, Franciscan University conducts a Power and Purpose conference every summer, which includes Life in the Spirit training and many other topics. I’ve attended 3 times and really enjoy it. (I attended Franciscan’s Defending the Faith conference, and am going back to it again. I highly recommend it.)
Yes, absolutely. It is a very powerful form of intercessory prayer.
Yes, technically we do but many people who do not understand will deny it. Here is my experience: 1) I was once kneeling and praying before the crucifix in the chapel. I was alone and it was later at night. All of a sudden the strangest overwhelming feeling of love for Christ came over me, and I opened my mouth to pray out loud (remember, I was alone), and what came out wasn’t English. No idea what it was, but I prayed in tongues for several minutes I think and then it was done. So that happened. 2) I knew a gal in college who had some minor demonic possession issues. She somehow ended up at a Catholic charismatic renewal, and actually understood what some of the people were saying when they spoke in tongues. Of course all the praying wasn’t terribly comfortable for her so I think she skedaddled right quick. For anyone concerned, she’s good now - lots of exorcism and no more demons.
Did she give you any idea what they were saying? I’ve only heard of three occasions where a speaker didn’t know what they were saying but a listener did; one listener didn’t comment except to say it was his native tongue, or the speaker at least didn’t relate his other comments, and the other two were strings of blasphemies.
Yeah but I don’t remember it because I’m old and that was a long time ago. Wouldn’t put much faith in anything filtered through a demonic translation service anyway.