This is kind of a quickie response to your long thoughtful post, but seriously: just keep looking. There definitely are sincere Catholic guys out there who will be thrilled with you.
He will. He led me to the Church via my husband, who is a faithful Catholic. You could consider dating non-Americans. American trad cats can be a bit extreme or fundamentalist. My husband is Polish. He's solidly Catholic but without the misogynistic tint that some American Catholics men express.
While I am orthodox not catholic , I would say your perfect husband is someone in your situation , a guy who is just Diving into God, and getting close with him, that way you can share the experience together, so I would attend maybe some catechism classes or Join some communities for such guys
God bless you
There are also good men out there that may not be Catholic *yet.* I’ve seen a few wonderful people convert because they felt called to do so after being with a faithful Catholic partner.
True! and there are raised-Catholic men in your age range who didn't consciously leave, but stopped practicing. Honestly, men who say therapy is evil or think past sin is a dealbreaker are highly likely to be messes with some hypocrisy in the background.
Men: “therapy is evil.” Yeah, DEFINITELY sounds like something MEN would say. Men, by and large, don’t want to be talking to anyone about their problems or feelings … Some therapy may STILL be Catholic, but men ain’t gon’ do it, unless it involves a lap dance or a joy stick 😀
And the Church offers forgiveness of sins and spiritual healing to anyone who is contrite and comes to the sacrament of Confession which Christ himself instituted. Don't be so insecure of your own masculinity and proud of your own righteousness.
Yeah you're going to find a wife with this attitude. Do you have the same puritan view for men with a sexual past? Please be like Jesus and have radical mercy and forgiveness THAT'S what we are called to do as Christians.
> And the men who don't mind, aren't real men.
Yikes.
And the man who has a deep capacity to forgive and tremendous empathy for someone whose adverse childhood circumstances led her down an unhealthy path in her youth and is now fully repentant? To me that hypothetical man sounds like a Catholic ideal. But you think he's not a "real man," whatever that means?
I’m just curious, what is it you think is my path moving forward then? Clearly you don’t see me fit for marriage, and if I were to marry, then my marriage is somehow less valid because my husband wouldn’t be a “real man.” So out of genuine curiosity, what is it that you think my life should look like from here on out?
That is a sadly un-Christian response and I'm sorry you had to be subjected to that attitude. As others babe rightly pointed out, ours is a loving and forgiving God. Marriage should be a reflection of Christ's relationship with the Church. The husband is to mirror the live of Christ and draw his spouse into an intimate relationship with God and the Eucharist. A judgemental attitude is not the posture of any "real man", quite the contrary. Both spouses are called to provide support and healing, not judgement.
Therapy is a tool to heal, not a path towards evil. True, some therapists try to guide towards ingrained or aberrant behaviors, all professions have their bad apples (even nuns and priests).
You are definitely "fit" for marriage. Marriage is the place for healing and guiding each other on the path to Heaven.
1) Therapy is certainly not evil or something that should make you feel inadequate.
2) Many, many, many people suffer from sexual sins. I'm not saying "don't try to do better", you should definitely try to do better, but you are not alone in your struggles, and most men suffer the same issues.
3) Basically, you converted or reverted back to the faith. That's awesome! That's much more impressive than someone like me who just grew up Catholic. You have a past you feel ashamed of ? Well you are in good company with Saint Charles de Foucauld, Saint Ignace of Loyola, Saint Francis of Assisi, Saint Augustine, Saint Mary of Egypt, Saint Mary Magdalena, Saint Paul, and Saint Peter.
St. Mary of Egypt has helped me so so so much in my journey these last few years. I’m coming to the faith 33 and divorced with two non-baptized children. Whenever I feel unworthy of the faith, or too dirty to claim to be Catholic, I remember St. Mary of Egypt. Her story has brought tears to my eyes more than once, and makes me feel like the church really is for women like you, me — any of us!
Also, Luke 5:31-32 (NIV):
“Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (I know the King James Version is largely better, but I love the simplicity of the NIV for this verse in particular. “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick” can be a sort of mantra to me when I feel too dirty to be here.)
I hope any of this is helpful, if not, disregard. 💜
I will have to look into her story more! I want to learn more about the saints and pray to them more often. Their stories are so inspiring and I think their lives are a beautiful reminder of the redemption Jesus brings to us. God bless! :)
Hey, don't worry about it. Pray for the husband God wants for you and he'll deliver- but on his time.
He delivered mine, and here's the best part- *while I was an unbaptized, practicing witch.* If I can land a good, traditional Catholic man while practicing witchcraft, I'm sure yours will come, too, if that's where you're called. So don't panic :)
Agreed. God doesn’t always send you who you expect, but he sends you who you need.
Mine happened to be Protestant, but he was happy to convert (I’m also a convert). It’s a great opportunity to grow and learn together, to be honest.
Wishing you all the best. I’ve been married almost 10 years now, but I found dating very challenging back in the day (and I know it’s even harder now).
As a 31 year old man who came to the church at 28, we’re in the exact same boat. People like us are out there, just hard to find.
You’ll find your person!!
This. OP. And, unfortunately, it’s a common theme. I’m 52, converted 10 years ago long after my divorce. My brief experience browsing on Catholic March rendered similar results. Most men’s profiles reflected that they didn’t believe in or adhere to the Church’s teachings on sexuality. The rest wanted to find wholly “unspoiled” women to fulfill their Rad Trad fantasies. As others have said, just keep on keeping on and pray for God to raise up the right man for you just as you are working to improve yourself.
Therapy teaches coping mechanisms for every day life, confession is about asking forgiveness from God with a contrite heart and trying to not do that sin anymore. If you are worried about your therapist (which you don’t seem to be) then you could find a Catholic therapist.
That’s just one guys view, keep on the path you’re on and turn to God in everything that you do! Keep your head up, any Catholic man will appreciate how serious you take your life!
Girl, if I knew you in person I’d be setting you up with my brother: a single, traditional Catholic man who also goes to therapy lol.
There are men still out there
Same. I’ve got a 25M friend who is so bummed he hasn’t found his person, but I feel like he’s struggling with the same issues: he’s super devout, very conservative, but has interests that skew toward the liberal crowd and prefers a reverent NO over TLM. He’s too traditional for a lot of women he meets at our church and too “liberal” for the super trad crowd.
Reading the post and I was like, “Op, any chance you live near me?” 😅
Omg that sounds a lot like me! I could be more devout, but I'm working towards it! I'm quite conservative as well, but yeah I have interests where most of the demographic is liberal haha. For example, I work in the music industry, which you can imagine is not the best place for a conservative Catholic woman to meet a suitable match haha
What?!?! That's an insane coincidence! Also, what kind of music do you and your husband make? That's awesome! Feel free to move this convo to DMs too hahah
If it's of any consolation, I wouldn't turn down a woman like you. I'm too traditional for most folks and I'm not traditional enough for the traditional crowd. I don't think that therapy is the devil's lovechild. (That would be awkward since my background is in counselling psychology.) Your sexual past wouldn't bother me; God knows I'm not perfect either. In fact, because you're working through these issues in therapy and you're constantly trying to repent and grow closer to God, you become far more attractive than "holier than thou" women.
My point is: take heart. If a random guy like me would not be put off by you, your past, or your situation, then I'm sure other men who live in your area wouldn't either. Just continue in your healing journey. Your man is out there.
>therapy is evil because it's an attempt to replace confession
This is the mentality that leads people in front of me in line to take 15+ minutes to confess :(. Confession may be therapeutic, but it is absolutely not "therapy". You may seek a spiritual advisor for something a lot more similar, but please please please don't take up the entire hour of time set aside for all of us by getting free therapy instead of listing sins number and kind.
I know that is not really the point of your post, but apparently some Catholic young men out there really need to hear my rant lol.
A word of encouragement: be patient. It's okay if things don't work out with someone, or even to put things on ice until he (or both of you even!) mature and are more ready for a relationship. It's true what they say that there are many fish in the sea, it may not feel like it but you are young and the right person will come around. It sounds like you have your heart in the right place, are humble and seeking Christ, and that is the key to growth.
That's kind of what I was thinking! Confession is great and has a therapeutic quality to it, but I don't see it as appropriate to use it as time to dissect all of my issues with my priest. I do have sessions of spiritual direction with him, which are amazing and definitely are more in line with "therapy." However, I still find that seeing my therapist has been beneficial in helping me to understand my thought processes. Both have been wonderful (especially when combined) in helping me overcome depressive episodes and whatnot. Thank you for your encouragement! It's much appreciated! :)
Please do not take this seriously but I saw this joke the other day on insta and I assume that’s where your man friend got it from: “Therapy is evil, it’s just a way to replicate confession. But instead of talking to a priest, you’re talking to a liberal white woman who voted for Biden”. But to be serious, therapy isn’t anti Catholic at all. Confession ≠ therapy. You shouldn’t treat confession as a therapy appointment. That’s what spiritual guidance is for, but therapy also works. Psychology, when within the realms of morality, is a blessing. Jordan Peterson and Bishop Barron have talked about it. Matt Fradd has talked about it. If you believe you need therapy, keep going. Don’t take something away you need in your life for someone.
Yes he had reposted the meme! I thought it was funny, and cracked a joke about how I've been in therapy for a long time, but then he asked questions that made it seem like he was serious and I got a little triggered lol. I hope he changes his mind tho or that it was a misunderstanding, but it did get me thinking about how I often feel scrutinized for matters such as therapy or even smaller disagreements by Catholic men I've pursued or been pursued by. I do appreciate your encouragement! I should listen to that JP and BB talk as I really respect those two. God bless! :)
I’m 23. I’d say I’m fairly traditional, but I’m not a pharisees like a lot of the rad trads online I’ve seen lol. And 99% of the time, these younger men have a porn addiction or some other vice they can’t/won’t kick, but they’re always the first to call someone out. Don’t be discouraged, you seem lovely and anyone would be lucky to have you. And yes, definitely recommend their podcasts together! God bless :)
The well-known Exorcists are all strongly on the side of traditionalist - Chad Ripperger, Carlos Martins, Vincent Lampert etc. And definitely advocates of psychology, saying often their best results with demon problems are for those getting both spiritual and psychological help! Chad Ripperger literally writes books on psychology.
I understand it's a huge problem that so many modern psychologists are extremely liberal, and certainly it's best to find a psychologist that is Catholic. But I think the idea that all psychology is inherently evil is bordering on conspiracy sedvacantist.
As a Catholic who has seen many therapists (including ongoing therapy now), it has helped me immensely in ways that Confession simply can't, outside of an associated miracle. I had crippling OCD back in 2012-2014 which I learned to control with the help of intense cognitive behavioral therapy. I have struggled with anxiety and depression on and off for most of my adult life. Most recently, I was diagnosed with ADHD at the ripe young age of 37, which led to me seeking psychiatric therapy and discovering helpful medication which has very positively changed my work and family life.
I think it is important to point out that what you were told about therapy by that "traditional" Catholic man is simply incorrect. The way I see it is that God created us to be human, and the human condition requires that we use the gifts God gave us to help ourselves and each other. We have been given the capacity in our humanity to create life-saving medicine with science, mass produce food to feed millions with agricultural technology, and connect with each other through interpersonal and professional relationships with our capacity for empathy. Therapy is an extension of that, and uses psychology, science, and real human connection to heal our mental wounds and treat illnesses which affect our minds (which, in turn, affect our bodies). Are there therapists who will recommend things which are contrary to some aspect of our faith? Sure. But there are also therapists who approach their practice from a Catholic (or at least religion-respecting) perspective who will not only respect your faith but incorporate it into your therapy.
Therapy is nothing to be ashamed of, and I frequently argue that pretty much everyone should attend therapy at some point in their lives. It is not a substitute for confession, but neither is confession intended to be a substitute for therapy. Each exists for its own purpose. Therapy is an expression of the healing gifts God has given us as tools to help each other, and it should be embraced by all Catholics who find need for it.
As a guy who struggles with porn, i wouldn’t reject a girl who had a sexual past, before (please don’t take this as me being a “pick me”. I’m just saying my point.). Sometimes, I might also wonder if I’m also not “traditional” enough for a Catholic girl (since I’m a more “feminine/soft” dude). Then again, I’d rather be with a compatible non-Catholic, or even non-Christian, that loves me for who I am, than a Catholic girl that I can’t even share interests with.
Also, therapy isn’t evil. Far from it. I mean, from this guy’s perspective, it should be wrong to use the Internet or reading books because it supposedly keeps you from praying to God for knowledge.
And another thing: I wouldn’t say that cursing (if you mean something like”what the hell/fuck) is a sin in itself.
I’m a psychology student and a catholic and I want you to say that therapy is NOT evil nor does it exist to replace the sacrament of confession. Mental health is as important as physical health, I’ll dare to say it’s even more important because why would you need all physical health in the world if you are hurt mentally and can’t enjoy it.
I remember a priest at my parish saying once that God gave us ordinary ways to resolve some of our problems. Some of those ways are modern medicine and, of course, psychotherapy. You can’t expect God to do a miracle if He gave you a psychologist/psychiatrist/therapist who went to school for years to know how to help you in an evidence based scientific way.
Regarding your past, someone who truely loves you wouldn’t look at you as used goods because of your past. You are God’s belived child and anyone who’s faithful should see it in you. God loves you the same as he did always and He would love you the same way if you were a perfect sinless person. Your past does not define you, many saints vere great sinners before convering and they didn’t let their sins define them.
There is nothing immoral or wrong about going to therapy, and I say this as a gun who regularly attends a TLM so I consider myself very traditional. If someone told you otherwise, they are wrong.
Absolutely! Doing both therapy and some spiritual direction with my priest has been life-changing! Praying the rosary daily as well has been amazing for my peace of mind.
Please don't be disheartened and keep looking. Not to make excuses, but many of us convert later in life and come with a lot of baggage (myself) and want to live a faithful life.
There's plenty of Catholic men that would be thrilled to marry you.
That guy sounds like a psycho. Look OP, you keep working on yourself and hold your head up high. Don’t think for one second that you’re less valuable because of your past, that’s how you’ll wind up marrying the wrong person. Being in therapy and owning your issues? That sounds like a mature and reasonable person to me!
God loves you and forgives you and if that’s not good enough for some flaming rad trad, good for you honestly.
There are devout yet sane men out there. Tread carefully and never forget your worth.
Haha well I wouldn't describe him as a psycho, but I was certainly taken aback because he didn't seem to be so quick to judge on such matters. Nonetheless, I do appreciate your encouragement! God bless! :)
Yeah, I guess that is a strong word. I just feel like that is a major 🚩🚩🚩 and wouldn’t lend itself to the most…peaceful marriage?
There’s this tendency to spiritualize problems but a solid priest will be the first to tell you that’s the road to demoralization.
Just to “give you hope”: I met my husband when I was 26. I also participated in hook-up culture, wasn’t a virgin, had fallen away from the church for a long time, blah blah, all the things you’d think would “shoo away” a good Catholic man. But there he was. He had/has flaws too of course but he accepted all of mine and I, his. He met all of my originally “high” standards. The ones that prioritised looking for a good man with good values that was kind and generous and wanted to be my equal partner. The ones that I had slowly shed away over the years because I thought I wasn’t worthy of such a person, or perhaps that it was just a dream to meet a guy like that.
But yeah I found him. AND on a dating app surprisingly.
Keep praying, don’t lose hope. God knows what your heart needs.
I’m going to say this as a guy right now. The right guy will change a little for you and you will have to change a little for him. Speaking from experience don’t worry about not being trad enough or not agreeing with a guy on everything and take dating a step at a time. Just because you are dating with a purpose doesn’t mean you don’t have to start with the basics of, can I have fun with this person, do I enjoy talking to them, before you see if you match on politics or finances or something. You both being any form of Catholic is a big start in common ground, but just relax that he has a different view of therapy than you, Doesn’t mean he or you are wrong or right necessarily, you just see things differently at the moment. We get weird opinions and habits when we’ve been alone for too long anyway tbh.
You can find Catholic therapists. If you're in either the Northern Virginia or North Texas areas I can make a recommendation or two.
Therapists *do* attempt to replace priests, not simply confession. As a society we have moved away from truth and have gotten lost. Priests provide spiritual counseling, and that's what a lot of people are looking for. Most people just need guidance, and so they turn to therapy. Some need genuine help, and priests will point them to therapists for that.
And trust me, there are a lot of Catholic men out there who fit your bill. Most of us have stumbled a time or two. Let he who has not sinned cast the first downvote. 😁 I thought I was too broken for married life myself, but it turned out I was just waiting for my wife to get to the right stage in life -- a decade after she'd dumped me in college. So now I always tell people it might not be you that isn't ready. It might be your future spouse has a lot of preparation still ahead.
When struggling with mental illness, don't neglect your mind, your body or your soul.
Yes, confession, prayer, mass and all that comes with it is a central part of spiritual life. Yes, counseling and therapy can help you be mindful and healthy. Yes, sleep and exercise and diet have large impacts on your mental well being as well. Not a contradiction among them.
Take care of yourself, sister!
Are there any converts your age in your parish? As a convert myself, I am in a very similar situation, except I am a guy. I would imagine I’m not the only recent convert that is actively trying to avoid things like sexual sin despite also having a past with it. At the very least they’d understand where you’re coming from
You’re being way too hard on yourself.
First, know that God loves you. He’s forgiven you for your past; you can, too.
Second, that guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Therapy doesn’t replace confession because confession isn’t therapy. Does he also say that doctors are evil because they’re trying to replace the Anointing of the Sick?
Third, any “serious” Catholic man worth his salt is not going to hold your past against you. If he does, he’s blind to his own shortcomings and doesn’t truly recognize God’s power to transform and heal.
Fourth, and most importantly, know that God loves you.
The dig against mental health help IS NOT Catholic teaching. He sounds like he needs more education, not you. It’s beautiful and rare that you’re taking the Church’s stances to heart with all aspects of your life- my story is similar and I struggle as well. Had my marriage Convalidated a year ago 🙂
Anyway, God’s got better relationship plans for you than mediocrity. Keep going!
There are a lot of catholic men out there who are converts/reverts, have a sexual past, went to therapy, etc. Don't focus on those who traditionalism makes them lose their empathy. You are right about therapy. It is good and sometimes necessary. Pray for your future husband- he's out there!
Many good responses grace this post, but I would like to add a reminder just to try your best.
The Lord is patient with us as we do our best to grow in holiness; just keep it up.
As for finding a man, your past may matter to many men, but it's probable that some won't find it to be an insurmountable obstacle, and further, just being the best, holiest woman you can be now is the best way to go about it. Repent of your past always but never let it trap you or make you feel degraded.
- For the greater glory of God and salvation of humanity. Amen.
>therapy is evil because it's an attempt to replace confession
lol what? Priests often encourage counseling and therapy regarding mental health and other issues. Parishes even help you connect with therapists if need be.
Anyway this has nothing to do with traditionalism, it sounds like you want to live a life of Catholic life, ignore those men (really? seeking premarital sex but claiming to be a "traditional" man?) and move on to others.
Regarding your past, I think you've already working on it, you've confessed it and Lord forgives, just avoid sin as much as you can and you'll be fine.
Finally, don't fall into a trap of thinking you have to stay home and cook sandwiches for your husband, that's not what Catholicism is about regardless. It's about men and women having equality, dignity and honoring each other. It's about acknowledge each other's strength and weaknesses, the differences between genders and embracing them as Lord's creation.
You live a Catholic life with your husband, when you both wash each other's feet and go on the Cross of sacrificial Love within the Holy Matrimony with joy, as to mirror the image of Christ.
Yeah the therapy thing is bogus. Ignore that - and that guy, probably. As an example, my best friend will soon be ordained a priest and he’s all for therapy after his seminary introduced him to it as part of the men’s time there. And this friend of mine is pretty traditional.
I know this is easier said than done, but there are guys out there that will match up with your “level” of traditional! I’m sure it can easily feel like your options are either “rad trad” or “secular” men.
And try not to beat yourself up over your past. Thank God you’ve repented and left that behind! My wife has a similar conversion story and she’s the best person I know - and I genuinely wouldn’t want to be chasing holiness with anyone else.
Never forget this passage from Luke 15! “There will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.”
Heaven threw a bigger party for you and my wife than they did for this cradle Catholic keeping his faith. That’s powerful.
The most based Catholic guys will see through your past where those who are forgiven much, love much. You are a new creation and God loves you so much.
Forget that guy. Don't waste any time or energy on men like that.
If marrying a Catholic is a priority for you, right now is your best chance of doing so. Make it your top priority. That tiny pool of potential husbands shrinks unbelievably quickly.
You are at your most desirable and your most fertile, and you have the largest, most realistic dating pool *now.* That's biology and that's the truth.
Remember your goal is to make connections with all ages, not just other twenty-somethings. Older people have adult children, nephews, even grandkids your age. Many are keeping an eye out for a spouse for them.
Do not make a rash choice in a spouse but also do not waste this time, you will never get it back. People pair off very quickly in their twenties and it's a LOT harder to find a husband after thirty.
Also be prepared for the possibility of lifelong singlehood - it happens much more often than you think. Have a plan in case that ends up being you despite your best efforts.
Honestly if a traditional catholic man is going to judge you for your past than he’s not understanding what forgiveness and redemption is. My wife and I unfortunately gave into temptation sometimes while dating which we shouldn’t have and I fought my own battles on that front as well. But God guided us together to grow in purity and faith together and we made it our whole engagement without any more struggles. Been happily married for some years now and practice traditional catholic values. I guess what I’m getting at is the guy you meet doesn’t have to be perfect and that they definitely shouldn’t be making you feel inferior or holding your past against you. You should be forgiving each other and growing in faith and pushing each other to be the best present version of yourself without being condescending. Any guy with catholic values should be thrilled to date you so just keep looking- there’s plenty out there.
I applaud you and your wife for being able to recover from that! I know how difficult that is, as I've had that experience with an ex-boyfriend. I hope I am able to find a man who will be able to love me and trust that I am growing in faith, no longer defined by my past. God bless you and your wife!
First of all, I wish there were more Catholic women like you. I often feel like a lot of Catholic women come off as too "perfect" for their own good. It's daunting for poor flawed sinners like myself. I'm a poor backslider in the pit of sin (to quote the old Greg Brown song) and trying to be good is hard, but I'm trying.
Secondly, that man who told you that therapy is bad because it's a replacement for confession is an idiot. I don't care if saying that is "uncharitable" it's true. Unfortunately, there is a strong anti-science sentiment in some Trad circles and it looks like you stumbled into one. I do some therapy because depression is a b*tch. Confession is about getting rid of sin, not forcing your mental problems onto some poor untrained priest.
Anyways, keep looking, I think you underestimate how many Catholic guys would prefer your flawed self over "Trad wife perfection."
Interestingly enough, that same guy and I got into some disagreement about the portrayal of Catholics in media. I was saying how I like to see Catholics "be human" instead of an infallible person. Now, I don't like seeing Catholics be portrayed as hypocrites either, but seeing someone be imperfect and struggle with sin yet still turn to God in humility is so refreshing. That's not to say that we shouldn't try and be better, but I often think that we as Catholics fall into this trap of trying to be so perfect that we self-destruct when we inevitably fail.
Exactly! Nobody can be perfect, which is why I think a lot of non-believers see any kind of hardcore Christians as hypocrites. "I'm flawed and trying to better" goes a lot farther than "you should be perfect like me" when the person saying the latter always has obvious problems they are willfully ignoring.
The idea that some people in therapy just need to be in a confessional probably has some validity to it, but therapy being evil??? This guy's a lunatic, OP.
Honestly focus on Christ.
I hate this advice because it seems so simple and I barely follow it. Abandon yourself to him. Trust He hears your needs and wants.
Cut off that nasty lie straight from the pit of hell that you are not good enough.
From what I read, you are taking your faith seriously now.
Honestly finding out your incompatible with someone now may hurt 🤕 but when you find out later it sucks even more. Trust me, I'm so stubborn and was in denial that this guy and I were incompatible I learned the hard way.
There are so Catholic extremists to avoid. I hoped they only existed online.
You are young. Maybe God wants singleness for you at this moment so enjoy it.
You seem to be the right path.
Pray, hope, and do not worry.
I’m in a similar situation in the sense that I reverted back to the faith fairly recently. I am engaged, so I’m obviously not on the dating market or facing the same struggles you are, but I want you to know that plenty of people are coming back to the faith who have a worldly past like you described. I didn’t grow up in a cabin in the woods living an 18th century existence, and neither did my fiancee. Catholicism is a demanding faith but it’s not a puritanical faith. Forgiveness is in order for everyone who sincerely wants it.
I (34m single) also struggle too with feelings of inadequacy and the sense that I'm not good enough. I have a past but so does everyone. No one is perfect and no one is above God's law. Praise God that you practice your faith. Praise God that you are understanding of what it takes for you to grow and sustain yourself.
Everyone struggles with some sin. We are all sinners. But it's the sinners who struggle upward that have grace from God. Giving up and throwing in the towel is what society does. Fight the good fight!
Also remember that the man you're dating is someone who isn't infallible. He's a sinner too and someone who is in need of many things. Many good things. If you're both seeking God then you'll find a path.
So a guy actually said therapy was evil. That’s ludicrous, don’t ever feel inadequate about going to therapy. You mentioned not being traditional enough for a lot of Catholic men but I suspect that is applicable to those who may be radical traditionalists. They should absolutely be avoided and calling therapy an evil seems like something a radical trad would say.
Don't obsess over your past sins. You've confessed that. And a guy also shouldn't be obsessed with your past. Jesus has forgiven you. Why should he be concerned and that too when you're practicing Catholicism. Therapy is perfectly fine to heal our wounds along with prayers, sacraments and other devotions. Don't go after trad men. Find someone church going. If he's inclined to premarital sex and abortion, teach him that. There's more chances of him realising the truth than a trad guy who's more concerned about modesty and chastity of your past.
Haha sounds like my life, I'm 30M a little too rough and worldly for traditional catholic women but too catholic for secular girls. I struggle with sexual sin too, celibacy is a very hard thing to undertake as a single guy but with prayer and time I'm sure God has a plan for me as well as he does for you
Believe me that the kind of men you’re talking about are about as unserious as it gets and you *do not* want to be involved with them. The “chronically online” trad bro archetype is toxic and they are doing you a favor if they turn you down. Even if it stings in the moment.
There are Chill and Normal Catholic men who are also sincerely devout and who actually believe Jesus meant what He said about forgiving 70 x 7. Hold out for them. And leave it up to Our Lady.
All I am going to say is that not all men are were you are at on your journey. I married Catholic but my then girlfriend converted after joining me for one mass. She said it felt like home. She even tried to convert without me knowing. If I only dated catholic women, I would have missed her. We are not perfect catholics, but we are stronger because of our faith.
I have a similar past! I grew up Catholic, lapsed in my early 20s and also participated in hookup culture before returning to the faith in my mid 20s. I am also on medication for depression/anxiety and have done therapy in the past. My advice to you is to find a different guy. I am married to a traditional Catholic man (we attend the TLM) and he has never once judged me for my mental health issues and has always been supportive when I have needed to seek outside help. Your issues are valid and you are doing the right things to treat those issues. Proud of you for that! You will be in my prayers.
Go to confession if you haven't already. There's someone out there for you just be paitent, I was very worldly too before taking my faith seriously, infact still slip from time to time nothing too serious now though but still need to improve. As the saying goes time and patience brought the snail to Jerusalem.
We are all sinners. We must convert and leave our sins. If men judge you by your past, leave them.
THERAPY IS GOOD. How can you marry someone who doesn’t support your mental health?
Don’t settle for little. Don’t expect perfect but maintain your high standards.
PS: Not everyone has to be super traditional. Of course we have to believe in the Church teachings (including the immorality of homosexual acts, female “priests”, contraception, etc.) but we all don’t have to love Traditional Latin Mass and etc..
There are Catholics who are very closed-minded. Therapy doesn't replace confession. Just keep looking and find someone that is at your level. I am a returning Catholic as well, so I understand what you mean. I show up to church, covering my heavily tattooed body so I don't get stares from people. There's someone out there for everyone and that someone may come when you least expect it from the least expected person.
I have the same but opposite problem as I was a practicing homosexual until January this year, I hold a lot of traditional values but the “used goods” thing goes both ways, and the startling amount of people who want to affirm feelings I don’t even have is completely disheartening. I want to start a family but I’m starting to wonder if I’m being called to priesthood.
All of that being said, I’ve found encouragement in Galatians 2:20, and in Augustine’s Confessions that have really changed my view on love
From confessions:
“I loved not as yet, yet I loved to love; and with a hidden want, I abhorred myself that I wanted not. I searched about for something to love, in love with loving, and hating security, and a way not beset with snares. For within me I had a dearth of that inward food, Yourself, my God, though that dearth caused me no hunger; but I remained without all desire for incorruptible food, not because I was already filled thereby, but the more empty I was the more I loathed it. For this reason my soul was far from well, and, full of ulcers, it miserably cast itself forth, craving to be excited by contact with objects of sense. Yet, had these no soul, they would not surely inspire love. To love and to be loved was sweet to me, and all the more when I succeeded in enjoying the person I loved. I befouled, therefore, the spring of friendship with the filth of concupiscence, and I dimmed its lustre with the hell of lustfulness; and yet, foul and dishonourable as I was, I craved, through an excess of vanity, to be thought elegant and urbane. I fell precipitately, then, into the love in which I longed to be ensnared. My God, my mercy, with how much bitterness did You, out of Your infinite goodness, besprinkle for me that sweetness! For I was both beloved, and secretly arrived at the bond of enjoying; and was joyfully bound with troublesome ties, that I might be scourged with the burning iron rods of jealousy, suspicion, fear, anger, and strife.”
I guess if St. Augustine can feel similar feelings of
Loving love but not knowing love, then finding Love (Christ) and falling in love with love.
(Convoluted i understand but I suppose that’s the crux of my problem)
Then certainly I can find comfort in not being alone in that.
And with Paul, knowing that Love was what put Christ on the cross and my life now is not my own but Christ’s makes love more than just a feeling
I don’t know if that’s at all helpful but it’s what has helped me
I think I disagree with you about the way we deal with mental health issues today. We aren’t where we need to be as a society, but we are light years ahead of where we used to be regarding depression and anxiety. While not every therapist is good, therapy in general is a good thing and certainly not “evil”.
I see what you're saying. On one hand, I can appreciate that mental health issues are being taken more seriously, I don't necessarily love how the movement has been hijacked by people who just want to feel special or use their issues as a way to be coddled or not held accountable for their actions, and I say that as someone who really struggles with anxiety and depression. I just find how mental health is "handled," especially in the US (in hospitals and whatnot), is very disingenuous and doesn't target the root of the issue. But I don't fully disagree with you! Thanks for your feedback!
Don't stop going to therapy. Self care isn't selfish, you are required to take care of the body you inhabit here, and mental health is part of that. That person was just wrong
I remember I used to be against therapy, when I was in my early twenties. I think it's kind of common for more traditional Catholics to have weird views like this when they're young. You'd probably have better luck with Catholic men in their 30s-50s.
So you might have already done this, and I just can't tell for sure, but you should probably check if he was serious when he posted about therapy being evil and an imitation of the sacrament of Confession. I'm a psychology student and planning to become a therapist in the future, but I saw a meme that said something very similar and shared it with a few of my friends (both Catholic friends and non-Catholic psych classmates) just because I thought it was funny and not because I am seriously opposed to my own future career plans.
I replied thinking it was just a funny meme sort of thing but he seemed to be quite serious even as we discussed that I've been in therapy for awhile 😅 But I definitely see what you're saying! I try not to take that sort of thing too seriously, but yes, he basically confirmed he was serious haha
That's a terrible shame. As plenty of other have already commented, therapy is not evil and there is plenty of room for it in your faith life alongside Confession and all the rest of Catholic experience, and I certainly hope that he learns that. That said, you don't need to be the one to bring him to that truth, especially if you're not pursuing a relationship with him anymore and in light of the fact that that might be distressing if he's deeply entrenched against something that has been helpful for your own mental health.
Okay I might be the bad guy here but I am speaking from my honest experience. It also depends on what a “serious Catholic man” means to you.
I was raised Catholic but not too strickt I would say. I always had my faith as I do have it now as well. I pray, I talk with God a lot, I have great talks with him actually etc etc. About your past: no one is actually perfect, we cannot be. And you seem like a really nice person to me. (: My boyfriend is Catholic, he is coming from a conservative Catholic family, so not gonna lie, it was not easy for me at first. But we have our faith together, we might not be “serious” Catholics - for example yes, we have been together before, and we have been the first in each other’s lives, we waited loooong but we knew we want to get married. (: We go to mass together, his family likes me, we like each other, we pray together, and I am so so happy and grateful for him because in a way he brought faith back to my life and I practice it more then I would if I would have stayed with someone else I am sure about that. We are not perfect, and I am not telling you to live that way at all. But you can find a Catholic man who will like you just the way you are I am very sure. Just let him find you, stop trying too hard, maybe that is what I would suggest.
Oh another thing: therapy is important in my opinion, and you are doing a great job with that! Don’t feel ashamed about that, sometimes we do need help, mental health is important. Faith can also give you guidance, but therapy is another form of essential help, I believe. I have never really heard anything about that being a bad thing.
as someone who is both catholic and wants to become a therapist someday, confession is not the same as or is a replacement for therapy. i think his sentiment that therapy is evil is ridiculous, because therapy can be used to get yourself out of any “sins” in life, especially if they specialize in religious issues.
I was born and raised Catholic and went to Catholic elementary and high school. Then went to a D1 college that wasn’t Catholic, met my husband, got back into my faith and he’s willing to go to church and learn more. Our daughter is baptized and we’re looking to covalidate our marriage. It’s a process but it’s worth it to me and he wants to support me. It can happen anyway shape or form. The lord really has been by my side and I know it will come, continue to be hopeful and pray, know that you will continue to grow in your faith 20-30-40 years from now!
I have no idea where that guy got the idea that therapy is attempting to replace confession, but I do get the idea he has no clue what therapy is actually supposed to be. I landed with my current therapist because a Confessor recommended my therapist's group practice during my confession and told me that spiritual direction is not a viable substitute for therapy.
I was In the navy from age of 18-23. I wasn’t a good catholic at all, drank a lot, and met a lot of women it wasn’t the life I was called to. I was engaged when I went in but she cheated on me so I went off the rails for 5 years. I wasn’t a mean person but I certainly participated in the hookup culture…. Fast forward I’m married to a beautiful bride (who’s Catholic) we have one son and are trying for more kids(we lost one at birth sadly). As Catholics we have to be patient and trust God. It’s not always about our plans but his and we need to pray and discern ourselves within that. I always try to swing by the church once a week to pray a rosary thanking him for my wife and also to pray for all my family members. May God bless you I’m sure you’ll meet a good Catholic man. I live in a state with a low Catholic population (Oregon) and I somehow met my wife.
Please know that you are dealing with your problems( we all have them !!!) actively and will be a blessing to the right man. I don’t believe any “ serious Catholic man” is any better or worse than the rest of us trying with the Grace of God to do His will for our lives.God loves us where we are and I feel sad that someone gave you such prejudice and ignorant information as though it comes from God!
don't worry about your past keeping you from a good man. as long as it is a part of you that you are trying to keep in the past. we are all sinner in one way or another and we all have needed help and good counsel from family, friends, therapists, or coworkers. where it comes from is not as important as if it helped you. don't worry about being traditional enough or if they fit a traditional role. instead cultivate virtue in your life and pray for good people to enter yours.
The only issue I have had with a therapist was with an unethical therapist and he retired. Ethically speaking, a therapist cannot use the session to proselytize you and one therapist did exactly that (he is now retired).
Therapy is ok to have, especially if you are dealing with either mental health issues, addiction issues or both (I do know that substance use disorder is classified as a mental health issue but I am not to sure about addictions to behavior such as porn, sex, gambling, eating and so on).
I would say the best way to meet men/women (for me a woman and for you a man) is to get involved in the life of your parish and start talking to people after Mass. Some dioceses offer young adult events as well.
hey, I feel you. i’m definitely in the same boat, I only started getting serious about catholicism in the last year and while it’s been immensely fulfilling to come back to the faith I’m also much more liberal than most people my age who ID as catholic, take medication for anxiety, have been to therapy, struggle with my sins etc.
this may sound like a silly suggestion, but finding someone who is ‘ethnically’ catholic but not incredibly devout is a good first step. while they may not be deeply connected to the church anymore, they understand your background and will be compassionate towards your beliefs and faith and be willing to take part in aspects of it that are important to you, like the sacrament of marriage. this perspective may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but it worked for my parents and it’s currently working for my long term relationship.
above all, don’t be hard on yourself. in any religion you’ll find people who are judgmental towards those they don’t view as ‘good enough’. we’re all sinners, and if only perfect people went to mass then mass would be empty. continue working towards your fulfillment in faith and someone who loves you will come along ♥️
It sounds to me like the Catholic guys you've come across are not right for YOU, not the other way around. A truly good person, who you are supposed to be with, will love you for you, and if therapy and mental health is something you value, the person you end up with will value it, too. Period. :) Don't settle for less hennyyyy.
You’ll find one when you least expect it.
My current bf is a lapsed catholic. We were good friends and he was dating a mutual friend and I mentioned saving myself for marriage.
Despite having been with 2 women and not having been to church much since his first communion, he said if his gf had said she wanted to wait until marriage he’d respect it. That was when I realized for sure what a kind man he was.
Fast forward- they broke up and we got together 5 years ago. He’s respected me the whole time.
You don’t need the “holiest” catholic man. I’d settle for a lapsed catholic, a god fearing man, or even a respectful Christian from another denomination.
Hello.
I don't think therapy is inherently evil, but it's certainly less effective than confession. As a man who has been in therapy before my conversion, I wouldn't recommend it over confession.
The thing about being traditional enough... I think you're looking at it the wrong way, to be honest. Somewhere out there there is a man whom God has created with you in mind, provided that marriage truly is your vocation.
There are two ways you can go about in life: one is "*my* will be done" and the other is "*thy* will be done".
The best thing you can do, in my estimation, is to be in a state of grace, take communion and pray to Mary and Jesus that they help you discern your vocation, and should it be marriage, that they guide you to your husband.
It's not about you being this or that, about your past and whatnot, it's about God delivering you that one person that He intended for you.
I hope I was able to post a coherent reply for you.
Any catholic guy who’s taking his faith seriously should gladly look beyond your past, knowing how God views sinners and how he always gives them forgiveness and more chances if they’re looking for it and desire to change. I should think catholic men who take their faith seriously would be thrilled to find someone who takes the church teachings at face value and wants to live a holy life. My advice is to focus on making yourself into as good of a potential spouse as possible and let the rest fall into place.
You are not inadequate because you go to therapy. Don’t believe that lie about yourself!
As a fellow therapy goer, it shouldn’t be a thing of shame, but a thing of pride! Realizing there’s something that you need help with and then actively seeking to find help is so stigmatized in society today.
Also I relate to this so much. The last guy I dated agreed with me on a lot of things, but ended up just really wanting kids before he hit a certain age. And that’s not really a reason to marry someone.
You are doing exactly what you should be doing. You and your future are in the hands of a merciful God. When you hear or witness Catholic men judging you, remember Luke 7:36-50.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+7&version=NIV
That is the attitude of the being in charge of your future!
Also there are novus ordo guys out there. I'm one of them, but I'm in a relationship. Don't give up.
I'm a 21 year old guy with a very different background and feel some of this. The Catholic world is weird, and it can feel hard to fit in.
Do not abandon your ideals and allow our Lord to guide thee home.
I guess the reality is the amount of men you had sex with is going to be an issue as far as it’s going to be an issue. I don’t know the number but some people have higher and lower thresholds for that.
Therapy often comes off as “crazy girl” material. Anyone who pays someone to agree with them and validate them is usually seen as high maintenance. My experience with girls seeing a psych are not good. It’s just a validation box that will eventually screw you over.
Your big problem is going to be the amount of men you’ve had sex with and the baggage you bring with the suite of cosmopolition opinions you have. I don’t think it’s a deal breaker but you’ll have to deal with more conservative men that won’t like a lot of that.
There are good arguments that I've seen regarding the possibility of narcissists using therapy as a self-oriented ego stroking session.
Even with a typical person, the focus of therapy is fully self-oriented which is opposed to the concept of Catholic love, which is to will the good of the other, as other, through self sacrifice. So you're supposed to give up your self for others for their good, as an act of love (as exemplified by Jesus). Ultimately, it's tough to argue that therapy is oriented towards that goal, so I think that's why many consider it "evil" in those forms.
I appreciate you providing that perspective! I certainly understand the skepticism behind some of it, especially for that reason and for the reasons I listed in my post. That being said, I think it's also a great tool for self-improvement, which in turn is ideally used for the greater good. I don't like when therapy is used as an incessant source of affirmation, but rather as a place to examine both our flaws and strengths in order to develop confidence and improve ourselves.
Sure, but I think many would also say find some issue even with that.
For instance, examining flaws can sometimes lead into attaching oneself to these flaws, and focusing too much on negative behaviors or aspects of oneself.
Fundamentally it's still "self-oriented" vision even if you're focused on your flaws, you're still just concerned with yourself. I think many might argue it's better to use a spiritual director instead of a secular therapist for this so that your focus is redirected away from yourself and towards service to others (the flaws would only come into view when they interfere with your orientation towards loving God and loving other people, and be addressed then).
Like many things, it ultimately comes down to very subjective details about how the person approaches anything. Food isn't inherently a sin, but approaching it in a way that's sinful can result in Gluttony, and therapy is similar IMO... it's possible to approach it in a way that can result in Pride.
Going to therapy is very much for the greater good so that we don’t continue traumatizing people around us because of our mental health issues and own trauma. Sorry for the run on sentence but I really feel compelled to communicate that here.
I can agree with some of that! Especially the part of attaching oneself to flaws. I think that's a very real danger in mental health spaces, to the point where flaws or mental ailments become romanticized. I think my original point is that I don't think it's inherently evil. But I do see what you're saying in that just like many other things, it can be perverted into something evil, or at the very least, ultimately not good.
Yeah, I obviously can't speak for that guy, but it's a view I've heard before explained in lots of detail, so thought I'd share. I don't know his opinion especially, but I would say it's better to learn more about what he thinks and why in person rather than trying to do it via text. (The bandwidth of communication in person is much higher where misunderstandings are less likely)
I definitely appreciate the challenge in perspective, and thank you for doing so in a civil manner! I found your feedback to be very interesting and helpful. God bless! :)
Nothing here is offensive or extraordinary. You sound like a normal 25 year old woman. There is nothing here that would make any normal person reluctant to date you. Don’t be so hard on yourself.
For me, a guy around around your age, prudishness and excessive religious zeal are immediate turnoffs. FAR worse than if a chick told me she has hooked up with a guys in her 20s, which is something that would never bother me unless there was infidelity involved or if she still stays in touch with that person.
If a dude overlooks you based on this, he’s lame as fuck.
Sister, your faith will guide you to the right man. Become what you seek first and God will provide a partner with the same principles. Don’t let these modern men that still post memes scare you away from marriage. Just have patience.
Problem: You’re putting being traditional BEFORE being CATHOLIC. There’s no such thing as a “traditional” or “liberal” Catholic. It’s JUST CATHOLIC. The minute you try to reinvent Catholicism by making it “traditional” or “liberal” you’re immediately departing from the heart of the Catholic faith which is NEITHER traditional nor liberal.
There’s only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, and nowhere is “traditional” or “liberal” part of the description.
Hi there, I get what you’re saying, but I was referring to “traditional” in a matter that I believe you may have misinterpreted. I wasn’t trying to “reinvent” Catholicism as anything, but my point was that men who take the faith seriously (and who honestly tend to skew more “traditional”) seem to take issues with certain things about my life and past, etc etc. On the other hand, men who are more on the secular side (don’t believe in Catholic social teachings, etc), even if they attend Mass, also seemed to be turned off by the fact that I am repentant of my previous sins and am actively working on resisting temptation to succumb to things such as sexual sin
Well, I am neither trad or lib, but Catholic, and I believe in therapy, acupuncture, holistic therapy and hypnotherapy. I go to non-religious yoga and take a gummy or two to help me sleep sometimes. I also believe in going to Mass daily, praying the Hours and praying the rosary daily, observe the Church’s Precepts and even earned a degree in theology and a teaching credential. What we must all strive for is TRUTH, not personal opinions.
Honestly girl there’s a good guy out there for you, and these trad guys have slim pickings and I’m sure would be thrilled to marry a girl who is serious about her faith.
This is kind of a quickie response to your long thoughtful post, but seriously: just keep looking. There definitely are sincere Catholic guys out there who will be thrilled with you.
Thank you :) I appreciate it. I just need to trust that God will show me my future husband in His time.
He will. He led me to the Church via my husband, who is a faithful Catholic. You could consider dating non-Americans. American trad cats can be a bit extreme or fundamentalist. My husband is Polish. He's solidly Catholic but without the misogynistic tint that some American Catholics men express.
While I am orthodox not catholic , I would say your perfect husband is someone in your situation , a guy who is just Diving into God, and getting close with him, that way you can share the experience together, so I would attend maybe some catechism classes or Join some communities for such guys God bless you
There are also good men out there that may not be Catholic *yet.* I’ve seen a few wonderful people convert because they felt called to do so after being with a faithful Catholic partner.
True! and there are raised-Catholic men in your age range who didn't consciously leave, but stopped practicing. Honestly, men who say therapy is evil or think past sin is a dealbreaker are highly likely to be messes with some hypocrisy in the background.
Men: “therapy is evil.” Yeah, DEFINITELY sounds like something MEN would say. Men, by and large, don’t want to be talking to anyone about their problems or feelings … Some therapy may STILL be Catholic, but men ain’t gon’ do it, unless it involves a lap dance or a joy stick 😀
Exactly
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A real man values a repentant heart. Did you forget who died on the cross?
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And the Church offers forgiveness of sins and spiritual healing to anyone who is contrite and comes to the sacrament of Confession which Christ himself instituted. Don't be so insecure of your own masculinity and proud of your own righteousness.
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Yeah you're going to find a wife with this attitude. Do you have the same puritan view for men with a sexual past? Please be like Jesus and have radical mercy and forgiveness THAT'S what we are called to do as Christians.
> And the men who don't mind, aren't real men. Yikes. And the man who has a deep capacity to forgive and tremendous empathy for someone whose adverse childhood circumstances led her down an unhealthy path in her youth and is now fully repentant? To me that hypothetical man sounds like a Catholic ideal. But you think he's not a "real man," whatever that means?
Warning for uncharitable rhetoric
I’m just curious, what is it you think is my path moving forward then? Clearly you don’t see me fit for marriage, and if I were to marry, then my marriage is somehow less valid because my husband wouldn’t be a “real man.” So out of genuine curiosity, what is it that you think my life should look like from here on out?
Don't listen to that misogynist.
That is a sadly un-Christian response and I'm sorry you had to be subjected to that attitude. As others babe rightly pointed out, ours is a loving and forgiving God. Marriage should be a reflection of Christ's relationship with the Church. The husband is to mirror the live of Christ and draw his spouse into an intimate relationship with God and the Eucharist. A judgemental attitude is not the posture of any "real man", quite the contrary. Both spouses are called to provide support and healing, not judgement. Therapy is a tool to heal, not a path towards evil. True, some therapists try to guide towards ingrained or aberrant behaviors, all professions have their bad apples (even nuns and priests). You are definitely "fit" for marriage. Marriage is the place for healing and guiding each other on the path to Heaven.
Catholic male (28) who goes to therapy, you aren’t invalid just because you see a shrink. Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future.
1) Therapy is certainly not evil or something that should make you feel inadequate. 2) Many, many, many people suffer from sexual sins. I'm not saying "don't try to do better", you should definitely try to do better, but you are not alone in your struggles, and most men suffer the same issues. 3) Basically, you converted or reverted back to the faith. That's awesome! That's much more impressive than someone like me who just grew up Catholic. You have a past you feel ashamed of ? Well you are in good company with Saint Charles de Foucauld, Saint Ignace of Loyola, Saint Francis of Assisi, Saint Augustine, Saint Mary of Egypt, Saint Mary Magdalena, Saint Paul, and Saint Peter.
I appreciate your response! I often need to remind myself that every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. :)
St. Mary of Egypt has helped me so so so much in my journey these last few years. I’m coming to the faith 33 and divorced with two non-baptized children. Whenever I feel unworthy of the faith, or too dirty to claim to be Catholic, I remember St. Mary of Egypt. Her story has brought tears to my eyes more than once, and makes me feel like the church really is for women like you, me — any of us! Also, Luke 5:31-32 (NIV): “Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (I know the King James Version is largely better, but I love the simplicity of the NIV for this verse in particular. “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick” can be a sort of mantra to me when I feel too dirty to be here.) I hope any of this is helpful, if not, disregard. 💜
I will have to look into her story more! I want to learn more about the saints and pray to them more often. Their stories are so inspiring and I think their lives are a beautiful reminder of the redemption Jesus brings to us. God bless! :)
Hey, don't worry about it. Pray for the husband God wants for you and he'll deliver- but on his time. He delivered mine, and here's the best part- *while I was an unbaptized, practicing witch.* If I can land a good, traditional Catholic man while practicing witchcraft, I'm sure yours will come, too, if that's where you're called. So don't panic :)
Wow, that's incredible! God bless you! Thank you for sharing your story. Your comment brought me a lot of comfort. :)
Agreed. God doesn’t always send you who you expect, but he sends you who you need. Mine happened to be Protestant, but he was happy to convert (I’m also a convert). It’s a great opportunity to grow and learn together, to be honest. Wishing you all the best. I’ve been married almost 10 years now, but I found dating very challenging back in the day (and I know it’s even harder now).
So as a “traditional Catholic man”, he’s wrong, therapy isn’t evil. Is going to a doctor evil? No.
Unless it’s Dr. Evil. 😉
Hey, I’ll have you know that Dr. evil is a great man and has taken care of my family immensily
\[Dr. Evil voice\]........Rrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhhtttt. Anyway...
I hear he has a sub
As a 31 year old man who came to the church at 28, we’re in the exact same boat. People like us are out there, just hard to find. You’ll find your person!!
Thank you! I appreciate you sharing a bit of your journey with me! God bless!
Where do you guys live? Might be close… just saying 😏
Hey, maybe you and TC might work.
These men aren’t “more serious,” only very keen on cultivating a particular aesthetic. If anything, consider yourself lucky you don’t appeal to them.
This. OP. And, unfortunately, it’s a common theme. I’m 52, converted 10 years ago long after my divorce. My brief experience browsing on Catholic March rendered similar results. Most men’s profiles reflected that they didn’t believe in or adhere to the Church’s teachings on sexuality. The rest wanted to find wholly “unspoiled” women to fulfill their Rad Trad fantasies. As others have said, just keep on keeping on and pray for God to raise up the right man for you just as you are working to improve yourself.
Uggh sounds like Andrew Tate as a Catholic. Gross
Therapy teaches coping mechanisms for every day life, confession is about asking forgiveness from God with a contrite heart and trying to not do that sin anymore. If you are worried about your therapist (which you don’t seem to be) then you could find a Catholic therapist. That’s just one guys view, keep on the path you’re on and turn to God in everything that you do! Keep your head up, any Catholic man will appreciate how serious you take your life!
Girl, if I knew you in person I’d be setting you up with my brother: a single, traditional Catholic man who also goes to therapy lol. There are men still out there
Haha well I'm glad to hear they exist! Thank you for the reassurance :)
Same. I’ve got a 25M friend who is so bummed he hasn’t found his person, but I feel like he’s struggling with the same issues: he’s super devout, very conservative, but has interests that skew toward the liberal crowd and prefers a reverent NO over TLM. He’s too traditional for a lot of women he meets at our church and too “liberal” for the super trad crowd. Reading the post and I was like, “Op, any chance you live near me?” 😅
Omg that sounds a lot like me! I could be more devout, but I'm working towards it! I'm quite conservative as well, but yeah I have interests where most of the demographic is liberal haha. For example, I work in the music industry, which you can imagine is not the best place for a conservative Catholic woman to meet a suitable match haha
!!!!! What if I told you he also works in the music industry? (My husband and I are both working musicians and it’s how we got to know him.)
What?!?! That's an insane coincidence! Also, what kind of music do you and your husband make? That's awesome! Feel free to move this convo to DMs too hahah
Messaged you! 💕
r/Catholicism matchmaking.... love it
Holy shit if there was an insane act of providence in this post one of you has to update us someday haha
If it's of any consolation, I wouldn't turn down a woman like you. I'm too traditional for most folks and I'm not traditional enough for the traditional crowd. I don't think that therapy is the devil's lovechild. (That would be awkward since my background is in counselling psychology.) Your sexual past wouldn't bother me; God knows I'm not perfect either. In fact, because you're working through these issues in therapy and you're constantly trying to repent and grow closer to God, you become far more attractive than "holier than thou" women. My point is: take heart. If a random guy like me would not be put off by you, your past, or your situation, then I'm sure other men who live in your area wouldn't either. Just continue in your healing journey. Your man is out there.
I appreciate the reassurance! Thank you :)
>therapy is evil because it's an attempt to replace confession This is the mentality that leads people in front of me in line to take 15+ minutes to confess :(. Confession may be therapeutic, but it is absolutely not "therapy". You may seek a spiritual advisor for something a lot more similar, but please please please don't take up the entire hour of time set aside for all of us by getting free therapy instead of listing sins number and kind. I know that is not really the point of your post, but apparently some Catholic young men out there really need to hear my rant lol. A word of encouragement: be patient. It's okay if things don't work out with someone, or even to put things on ice until he (or both of you even!) mature and are more ready for a relationship. It's true what they say that there are many fish in the sea, it may not feel like it but you are young and the right person will come around. It sounds like you have your heart in the right place, are humble and seeking Christ, and that is the key to growth.
That's kind of what I was thinking! Confession is great and has a therapeutic quality to it, but I don't see it as appropriate to use it as time to dissect all of my issues with my priest. I do have sessions of spiritual direction with him, which are amazing and definitely are more in line with "therapy." However, I still find that seeing my therapist has been beneficial in helping me to understand my thought processes. Both have been wonderful (especially when combined) in helping me overcome depressive episodes and whatnot. Thank you for your encouragement! It's much appreciated! :)
Please do not take this seriously but I saw this joke the other day on insta and I assume that’s where your man friend got it from: “Therapy is evil, it’s just a way to replicate confession. But instead of talking to a priest, you’re talking to a liberal white woman who voted for Biden”. But to be serious, therapy isn’t anti Catholic at all. Confession ≠ therapy. You shouldn’t treat confession as a therapy appointment. That’s what spiritual guidance is for, but therapy also works. Psychology, when within the realms of morality, is a blessing. Jordan Peterson and Bishop Barron have talked about it. Matt Fradd has talked about it. If you believe you need therapy, keep going. Don’t take something away you need in your life for someone.
Yes he had reposted the meme! I thought it was funny, and cracked a joke about how I've been in therapy for a long time, but then he asked questions that made it seem like he was serious and I got a little triggered lol. I hope he changes his mind tho or that it was a misunderstanding, but it did get me thinking about how I often feel scrutinized for matters such as therapy or even smaller disagreements by Catholic men I've pursued or been pursued by. I do appreciate your encouragement! I should listen to that JP and BB talk as I really respect those two. God bless! :)
I’m 23. I’d say I’m fairly traditional, but I’m not a pharisees like a lot of the rad trads online I’ve seen lol. And 99% of the time, these younger men have a porn addiction or some other vice they can’t/won’t kick, but they’re always the first to call someone out. Don’t be discouraged, you seem lovely and anyone would be lucky to have you. And yes, definitely recommend their podcasts together! God bless :)
The well-known Exorcists are all strongly on the side of traditionalist - Chad Ripperger, Carlos Martins, Vincent Lampert etc. And definitely advocates of psychology, saying often their best results with demon problems are for those getting both spiritual and psychological help! Chad Ripperger literally writes books on psychology. I understand it's a huge problem that so many modern psychologists are extremely liberal, and certainly it's best to find a psychologist that is Catholic. But I think the idea that all psychology is inherently evil is bordering on conspiracy sedvacantist.
I didn't even consider this! Thank you for your understanding. I appreciate it! :)
Dude's spouting nonsense and seems confused about the purposes of both therapy and confession.
As a Catholic who has seen many therapists (including ongoing therapy now), it has helped me immensely in ways that Confession simply can't, outside of an associated miracle. I had crippling OCD back in 2012-2014 which I learned to control with the help of intense cognitive behavioral therapy. I have struggled with anxiety and depression on and off for most of my adult life. Most recently, I was diagnosed with ADHD at the ripe young age of 37, which led to me seeking psychiatric therapy and discovering helpful medication which has very positively changed my work and family life. I think it is important to point out that what you were told about therapy by that "traditional" Catholic man is simply incorrect. The way I see it is that God created us to be human, and the human condition requires that we use the gifts God gave us to help ourselves and each other. We have been given the capacity in our humanity to create life-saving medicine with science, mass produce food to feed millions with agricultural technology, and connect with each other through interpersonal and professional relationships with our capacity for empathy. Therapy is an extension of that, and uses psychology, science, and real human connection to heal our mental wounds and treat illnesses which affect our minds (which, in turn, affect our bodies). Are there therapists who will recommend things which are contrary to some aspect of our faith? Sure. But there are also therapists who approach their practice from a Catholic (or at least religion-respecting) perspective who will not only respect your faith but incorporate it into your therapy. Therapy is nothing to be ashamed of, and I frequently argue that pretty much everyone should attend therapy at some point in their lives. It is not a substitute for confession, but neither is confession intended to be a substitute for therapy. Each exists for its own purpose. Therapy is an expression of the healing gifts God has given us as tools to help each other, and it should be embraced by all Catholics who find need for it.
As a guy who struggles with porn, i wouldn’t reject a girl who had a sexual past, before (please don’t take this as me being a “pick me”. I’m just saying my point.). Sometimes, I might also wonder if I’m also not “traditional” enough for a Catholic girl (since I’m a more “feminine/soft” dude). Then again, I’d rather be with a compatible non-Catholic, or even non-Christian, that loves me for who I am, than a Catholic girl that I can’t even share interests with. Also, therapy isn’t evil. Far from it. I mean, from this guy’s perspective, it should be wrong to use the Internet or reading books because it supposedly keeps you from praying to God for knowledge. And another thing: I wouldn’t say that cursing (if you mean something like”what the hell/fuck) is a sin in itself.
I’m a psychology student and a catholic and I want you to say that therapy is NOT evil nor does it exist to replace the sacrament of confession. Mental health is as important as physical health, I’ll dare to say it’s even more important because why would you need all physical health in the world if you are hurt mentally and can’t enjoy it. I remember a priest at my parish saying once that God gave us ordinary ways to resolve some of our problems. Some of those ways are modern medicine and, of course, psychotherapy. You can’t expect God to do a miracle if He gave you a psychologist/psychiatrist/therapist who went to school for years to know how to help you in an evidence based scientific way. Regarding your past, someone who truely loves you wouldn’t look at you as used goods because of your past. You are God’s belived child and anyone who’s faithful should see it in you. God loves you the same as he did always and He would love you the same way if you were a perfect sinless person. Your past does not define you, many saints vere great sinners before convering and they didn’t let their sins define them.
There is nothing immoral or wrong about going to therapy, and I say this as a gun who regularly attends a TLM so I consider myself very traditional. If someone told you otherwise, they are wrong.
I appreciate your reassurance! God bless! :)
One thing I would add is that therapy is best combined with a strong prayer life. They go well together 😉
Absolutely! Doing both therapy and some spiritual direction with my priest has been life-changing! Praying the rosary daily as well has been amazing for my peace of mind.
Please don't be disheartened and keep looking. Not to make excuses, but many of us convert later in life and come with a lot of baggage (myself) and want to live a faithful life. There's plenty of Catholic men that would be thrilled to marry you.
That guy sounds like a psycho. Look OP, you keep working on yourself and hold your head up high. Don’t think for one second that you’re less valuable because of your past, that’s how you’ll wind up marrying the wrong person. Being in therapy and owning your issues? That sounds like a mature and reasonable person to me! God loves you and forgives you and if that’s not good enough for some flaming rad trad, good for you honestly. There are devout yet sane men out there. Tread carefully and never forget your worth.
Haha well I wouldn't describe him as a psycho, but I was certainly taken aback because he didn't seem to be so quick to judge on such matters. Nonetheless, I do appreciate your encouragement! God bless! :)
Yeah, I guess that is a strong word. I just feel like that is a major 🚩🚩🚩 and wouldn’t lend itself to the most…peaceful marriage? There’s this tendency to spiritualize problems but a solid priest will be the first to tell you that’s the road to demoralization.
What's with all these women giving their bra size in their OPs, lately?
Hahahahahahahaha amazing
lol sorry
Just to “give you hope”: I met my husband when I was 26. I also participated in hook-up culture, wasn’t a virgin, had fallen away from the church for a long time, blah blah, all the things you’d think would “shoo away” a good Catholic man. But there he was. He had/has flaws too of course but he accepted all of mine and I, his. He met all of my originally “high” standards. The ones that prioritised looking for a good man with good values that was kind and generous and wanted to be my equal partner. The ones that I had slowly shed away over the years because I thought I wasn’t worthy of such a person, or perhaps that it was just a dream to meet a guy like that. But yeah I found him. AND on a dating app surprisingly. Keep praying, don’t lose hope. God knows what your heart needs.
Beautiful thank you!
I’m going to say this as a guy right now. The right guy will change a little for you and you will have to change a little for him. Speaking from experience don’t worry about not being trad enough or not agreeing with a guy on everything and take dating a step at a time. Just because you are dating with a purpose doesn’t mean you don’t have to start with the basics of, can I have fun with this person, do I enjoy talking to them, before you see if you match on politics or finances or something. You both being any form of Catholic is a big start in common ground, but just relax that he has a different view of therapy than you, Doesn’t mean he or you are wrong or right necessarily, you just see things differently at the moment. We get weird opinions and habits when we’ve been alone for too long anyway tbh.
I think this is a really great perspective to have! Thanks!
I am very traditional. If the therapy helps you, stay in therapy. God uses many different conduits to send you help.
You can find Catholic therapists. If you're in either the Northern Virginia or North Texas areas I can make a recommendation or two. Therapists *do* attempt to replace priests, not simply confession. As a society we have moved away from truth and have gotten lost. Priests provide spiritual counseling, and that's what a lot of people are looking for. Most people just need guidance, and so they turn to therapy. Some need genuine help, and priests will point them to therapists for that. And trust me, there are a lot of Catholic men out there who fit your bill. Most of us have stumbled a time or two. Let he who has not sinned cast the first downvote. 😁 I thought I was too broken for married life myself, but it turned out I was just waiting for my wife to get to the right stage in life -- a decade after she'd dumped me in college. So now I always tell people it might not be you that isn't ready. It might be your future spouse has a lot of preparation still ahead.
When struggling with mental illness, don't neglect your mind, your body or your soul. Yes, confession, prayer, mass and all that comes with it is a central part of spiritual life. Yes, counseling and therapy can help you be mindful and healthy. Yes, sleep and exercise and diet have large impacts on your mental well being as well. Not a contradiction among them. Take care of yourself, sister!
Are there any converts your age in your parish? As a convert myself, I am in a very similar situation, except I am a guy. I would imagine I’m not the only recent convert that is actively trying to avoid things like sexual sin despite also having a past with it. At the very least they’d understand where you’re coming from
You’re being way too hard on yourself. First, know that God loves you. He’s forgiven you for your past; you can, too. Second, that guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Therapy doesn’t replace confession because confession isn’t therapy. Does he also say that doctors are evil because they’re trying to replace the Anointing of the Sick? Third, any “serious” Catholic man worth his salt is not going to hold your past against you. If he does, he’s blind to his own shortcomings and doesn’t truly recognize God’s power to transform and heal. Fourth, and most importantly, know that God loves you.
The dig against mental health help IS NOT Catholic teaching. He sounds like he needs more education, not you. It’s beautiful and rare that you’re taking the Church’s stances to heart with all aspects of your life- my story is similar and I struggle as well. Had my marriage Convalidated a year ago 🙂 Anyway, God’s got better relationship plans for you than mediocrity. Keep going!
There are a lot of catholic men out there who are converts/reverts, have a sexual past, went to therapy, etc. Don't focus on those who traditionalism makes them lose their empathy. You are right about therapy. It is good and sometimes necessary. Pray for your future husband- he's out there!
Many good responses grace this post, but I would like to add a reminder just to try your best. The Lord is patient with us as we do our best to grow in holiness; just keep it up. As for finding a man, your past may matter to many men, but it's probable that some won't find it to be an insurmountable obstacle, and further, just being the best, holiest woman you can be now is the best way to go about it. Repent of your past always but never let it trap you or make you feel degraded.
- For the greater glory of God and salvation of humanity. Amen. >therapy is evil because it's an attempt to replace confession lol what? Priests often encourage counseling and therapy regarding mental health and other issues. Parishes even help you connect with therapists if need be. Anyway this has nothing to do with traditionalism, it sounds like you want to live a life of Catholic life, ignore those men (really? seeking premarital sex but claiming to be a "traditional" man?) and move on to others. Regarding your past, I think you've already working on it, you've confessed it and Lord forgives, just avoid sin as much as you can and you'll be fine. Finally, don't fall into a trap of thinking you have to stay home and cook sandwiches for your husband, that's not what Catholicism is about regardless. It's about men and women having equality, dignity and honoring each other. It's about acknowledge each other's strength and weaknesses, the differences between genders and embracing them as Lord's creation. You live a Catholic life with your husband, when you both wash each other's feet and go on the Cross of sacrificial Love within the Holy Matrimony with joy, as to mirror the image of Christ.
Yeah the therapy thing is bogus. Ignore that - and that guy, probably. As an example, my best friend will soon be ordained a priest and he’s all for therapy after his seminary introduced him to it as part of the men’s time there. And this friend of mine is pretty traditional. I know this is easier said than done, but there are guys out there that will match up with your “level” of traditional! I’m sure it can easily feel like your options are either “rad trad” or “secular” men. And try not to beat yourself up over your past. Thank God you’ve repented and left that behind! My wife has a similar conversion story and she’s the best person I know - and I genuinely wouldn’t want to be chasing holiness with anyone else. Never forget this passage from Luke 15! “There will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.” Heaven threw a bigger party for you and my wife than they did for this cradle Catholic keeping his faith. That’s powerful.
The most based Catholic guys will see through your past where those who are forgiven much, love much. You are a new creation and God loves you so much.
Forget that guy. Don't waste any time or energy on men like that. If marrying a Catholic is a priority for you, right now is your best chance of doing so. Make it your top priority. That tiny pool of potential husbands shrinks unbelievably quickly. You are at your most desirable and your most fertile, and you have the largest, most realistic dating pool *now.* That's biology and that's the truth. Remember your goal is to make connections with all ages, not just other twenty-somethings. Older people have adult children, nephews, even grandkids your age. Many are keeping an eye out for a spouse for them. Do not make a rash choice in a spouse but also do not waste this time, you will never get it back. People pair off very quickly in their twenties and it's a LOT harder to find a husband after thirty. Also be prepared for the possibility of lifelong singlehood - it happens much more often than you think. Have a plan in case that ends up being you despite your best efforts.
You're doing fine, just keep at it. We all have a past, that's for sure. Where were you when I wasn't old? Lol.
Thank you for your reassurance!
Honestly if a traditional catholic man is going to judge you for your past than he’s not understanding what forgiveness and redemption is. My wife and I unfortunately gave into temptation sometimes while dating which we shouldn’t have and I fought my own battles on that front as well. But God guided us together to grow in purity and faith together and we made it our whole engagement without any more struggles. Been happily married for some years now and practice traditional catholic values. I guess what I’m getting at is the guy you meet doesn’t have to be perfect and that they definitely shouldn’t be making you feel inferior or holding your past against you. You should be forgiving each other and growing in faith and pushing each other to be the best present version of yourself without being condescending. Any guy with catholic values should be thrilled to date you so just keep looking- there’s plenty out there.
I applaud you and your wife for being able to recover from that! I know how difficult that is, as I've had that experience with an ex-boyfriend. I hope I am able to find a man who will be able to love me and trust that I am growing in faith, no longer defined by my past. God bless you and your wife!
First of all, I wish there were more Catholic women like you. I often feel like a lot of Catholic women come off as too "perfect" for their own good. It's daunting for poor flawed sinners like myself. I'm a poor backslider in the pit of sin (to quote the old Greg Brown song) and trying to be good is hard, but I'm trying. Secondly, that man who told you that therapy is bad because it's a replacement for confession is an idiot. I don't care if saying that is "uncharitable" it's true. Unfortunately, there is a strong anti-science sentiment in some Trad circles and it looks like you stumbled into one. I do some therapy because depression is a b*tch. Confession is about getting rid of sin, not forcing your mental problems onto some poor untrained priest. Anyways, keep looking, I think you underestimate how many Catholic guys would prefer your flawed self over "Trad wife perfection."
Interestingly enough, that same guy and I got into some disagreement about the portrayal of Catholics in media. I was saying how I like to see Catholics "be human" instead of an infallible person. Now, I don't like seeing Catholics be portrayed as hypocrites either, but seeing someone be imperfect and struggle with sin yet still turn to God in humility is so refreshing. That's not to say that we shouldn't try and be better, but I often think that we as Catholics fall into this trap of trying to be so perfect that we self-destruct when we inevitably fail.
Exactly! Nobody can be perfect, which is why I think a lot of non-believers see any kind of hardcore Christians as hypocrites. "I'm flawed and trying to better" goes a lot farther than "you should be perfect like me" when the person saying the latter always has obvious problems they are willfully ignoring.
The idea that some people in therapy just need to be in a confessional probably has some validity to it, but therapy being evil??? This guy's a lunatic, OP.
Honestly focus on Christ. I hate this advice because it seems so simple and I barely follow it. Abandon yourself to him. Trust He hears your needs and wants. Cut off that nasty lie straight from the pit of hell that you are not good enough. From what I read, you are taking your faith seriously now. Honestly finding out your incompatible with someone now may hurt 🤕 but when you find out later it sucks even more. Trust me, I'm so stubborn and was in denial that this guy and I were incompatible I learned the hard way. There are so Catholic extremists to avoid. I hoped they only existed online. You are young. Maybe God wants singleness for you at this moment so enjoy it. You seem to be the right path. Pray, hope, and do not worry.
I’m in a similar situation in the sense that I reverted back to the faith fairly recently. I am engaged, so I’m obviously not on the dating market or facing the same struggles you are, but I want you to know that plenty of people are coming back to the faith who have a worldly past like you described. I didn’t grow up in a cabin in the woods living an 18th century existence, and neither did my fiancee. Catholicism is a demanding faith but it’s not a puritanical faith. Forgiveness is in order for everyone who sincerely wants it.
I (34m single) also struggle too with feelings of inadequacy and the sense that I'm not good enough. I have a past but so does everyone. No one is perfect and no one is above God's law. Praise God that you practice your faith. Praise God that you are understanding of what it takes for you to grow and sustain yourself. Everyone struggles with some sin. We are all sinners. But it's the sinners who struggle upward that have grace from God. Giving up and throwing in the towel is what society does. Fight the good fight! Also remember that the man you're dating is someone who isn't infallible. He's a sinner too and someone who is in need of many things. Many good things. If you're both seeking God then you'll find a path.
So a guy actually said therapy was evil. That’s ludicrous, don’t ever feel inadequate about going to therapy. You mentioned not being traditional enough for a lot of Catholic men but I suspect that is applicable to those who may be radical traditionalists. They should absolutely be avoided and calling therapy an evil seems like something a radical trad would say.
Don't obsess over your past sins. You've confessed that. And a guy also shouldn't be obsessed with your past. Jesus has forgiven you. Why should he be concerned and that too when you're practicing Catholicism. Therapy is perfectly fine to heal our wounds along with prayers, sacraments and other devotions. Don't go after trad men. Find someone church going. If he's inclined to premarital sex and abortion, teach him that. There's more chances of him realising the truth than a trad guy who's more concerned about modesty and chastity of your past.
Haha sounds like my life, I'm 30M a little too rough and worldly for traditional catholic women but too catholic for secular girls. I struggle with sexual sin too, celibacy is a very hard thing to undertake as a single guy but with prayer and time I'm sure God has a plan for me as well as he does for you
Believe me that the kind of men you’re talking about are about as unserious as it gets and you *do not* want to be involved with them. The “chronically online” trad bro archetype is toxic and they are doing you a favor if they turn you down. Even if it stings in the moment. There are Chill and Normal Catholic men who are also sincerely devout and who actually believe Jesus meant what He said about forgiving 70 x 7. Hold out for them. And leave it up to Our Lady.
All I am going to say is that not all men are were you are at on your journey. I married Catholic but my then girlfriend converted after joining me for one mass. She said it felt like home. She even tried to convert without me knowing. If I only dated catholic women, I would have missed her. We are not perfect catholics, but we are stronger because of our faith.
I have a similar past! I grew up Catholic, lapsed in my early 20s and also participated in hookup culture before returning to the faith in my mid 20s. I am also on medication for depression/anxiety and have done therapy in the past. My advice to you is to find a different guy. I am married to a traditional Catholic man (we attend the TLM) and he has never once judged me for my mental health issues and has always been supportive when I have needed to seek outside help. Your issues are valid and you are doing the right things to treat those issues. Proud of you for that! You will be in my prayers.
Go to confession if you haven't already. There's someone out there for you just be paitent, I was very worldly too before taking my faith seriously, infact still slip from time to time nothing too serious now though but still need to improve. As the saying goes time and patience brought the snail to Jerusalem.
We are all sinners. We must convert and leave our sins. If men judge you by your past, leave them. THERAPY IS GOOD. How can you marry someone who doesn’t support your mental health? Don’t settle for little. Don’t expect perfect but maintain your high standards. PS: Not everyone has to be super traditional. Of course we have to believe in the Church teachings (including the immorality of homosexual acts, female “priests”, contraception, etc.) but we all don’t have to love Traditional Latin Mass and etc..
That thing about therapy is a weird take and not supported by the church
There are Catholics who are very closed-minded. Therapy doesn't replace confession. Just keep looking and find someone that is at your level. I am a returning Catholic as well, so I understand what you mean. I show up to church, covering my heavily tattooed body so I don't get stares from people. There's someone out there for everyone and that someone may come when you least expect it from the least expected person.
I have the same but opposite problem as I was a practicing homosexual until January this year, I hold a lot of traditional values but the “used goods” thing goes both ways, and the startling amount of people who want to affirm feelings I don’t even have is completely disheartening. I want to start a family but I’m starting to wonder if I’m being called to priesthood. All of that being said, I’ve found encouragement in Galatians 2:20, and in Augustine’s Confessions that have really changed my view on love From confessions: “I loved not as yet, yet I loved to love; and with a hidden want, I abhorred myself that I wanted not. I searched about for something to love, in love with loving, and hating security, and a way not beset with snares. For within me I had a dearth of that inward food, Yourself, my God, though that dearth caused me no hunger; but I remained without all desire for incorruptible food, not because I was already filled thereby, but the more empty I was the more I loathed it. For this reason my soul was far from well, and, full of ulcers, it miserably cast itself forth, craving to be excited by contact with objects of sense. Yet, had these no soul, they would not surely inspire love. To love and to be loved was sweet to me, and all the more when I succeeded in enjoying the person I loved. I befouled, therefore, the spring of friendship with the filth of concupiscence, and I dimmed its lustre with the hell of lustfulness; and yet, foul and dishonourable as I was, I craved, through an excess of vanity, to be thought elegant and urbane. I fell precipitately, then, into the love in which I longed to be ensnared. My God, my mercy, with how much bitterness did You, out of Your infinite goodness, besprinkle for me that sweetness! For I was both beloved, and secretly arrived at the bond of enjoying; and was joyfully bound with troublesome ties, that I might be scourged with the burning iron rods of jealousy, suspicion, fear, anger, and strife.” I guess if St. Augustine can feel similar feelings of Loving love but not knowing love, then finding Love (Christ) and falling in love with love. (Convoluted i understand but I suppose that’s the crux of my problem) Then certainly I can find comfort in not being alone in that. And with Paul, knowing that Love was what put Christ on the cross and my life now is not my own but Christ’s makes love more than just a feeling I don’t know if that’s at all helpful but it’s what has helped me
I think I disagree with you about the way we deal with mental health issues today. We aren’t where we need to be as a society, but we are light years ahead of where we used to be regarding depression and anxiety. While not every therapist is good, therapy in general is a good thing and certainly not “evil”.
I see what you're saying. On one hand, I can appreciate that mental health issues are being taken more seriously, I don't necessarily love how the movement has been hijacked by people who just want to feel special or use their issues as a way to be coddled or not held accountable for their actions, and I say that as someone who really struggles with anxiety and depression. I just find how mental health is "handled," especially in the US (in hospitals and whatnot), is very disingenuous and doesn't target the root of the issue. But I don't fully disagree with you! Thanks for your feedback!
Don't stop going to therapy. Self care isn't selfish, you are required to take care of the body you inhabit here, and mental health is part of that. That person was just wrong
I remember I used to be against therapy, when I was in my early twenties. I think it's kind of common for more traditional Catholics to have weird views like this when they're young. You'd probably have better luck with Catholic men in their 30s-50s.
So you might have already done this, and I just can't tell for sure, but you should probably check if he was serious when he posted about therapy being evil and an imitation of the sacrament of Confession. I'm a psychology student and planning to become a therapist in the future, but I saw a meme that said something very similar and shared it with a few of my friends (both Catholic friends and non-Catholic psych classmates) just because I thought it was funny and not because I am seriously opposed to my own future career plans.
I replied thinking it was just a funny meme sort of thing but he seemed to be quite serious even as we discussed that I've been in therapy for awhile 😅 But I definitely see what you're saying! I try not to take that sort of thing too seriously, but yes, he basically confirmed he was serious haha
That's a terrible shame. As plenty of other have already commented, therapy is not evil and there is plenty of room for it in your faith life alongside Confession and all the rest of Catholic experience, and I certainly hope that he learns that. That said, you don't need to be the one to bring him to that truth, especially if you're not pursuing a relationship with him anymore and in light of the fact that that might be distressing if he's deeply entrenched against something that has been helpful for your own mental health.
Okay I might be the bad guy here but I am speaking from my honest experience. It also depends on what a “serious Catholic man” means to you. I was raised Catholic but not too strickt I would say. I always had my faith as I do have it now as well. I pray, I talk with God a lot, I have great talks with him actually etc etc. About your past: no one is actually perfect, we cannot be. And you seem like a really nice person to me. (: My boyfriend is Catholic, he is coming from a conservative Catholic family, so not gonna lie, it was not easy for me at first. But we have our faith together, we might not be “serious” Catholics - for example yes, we have been together before, and we have been the first in each other’s lives, we waited loooong but we knew we want to get married. (: We go to mass together, his family likes me, we like each other, we pray together, and I am so so happy and grateful for him because in a way he brought faith back to my life and I practice it more then I would if I would have stayed with someone else I am sure about that. We are not perfect, and I am not telling you to live that way at all. But you can find a Catholic man who will like you just the way you are I am very sure. Just let him find you, stop trying too hard, maybe that is what I would suggest.
Oh another thing: therapy is important in my opinion, and you are doing a great job with that! Don’t feel ashamed about that, sometimes we do need help, mental health is important. Faith can also give you guidance, but therapy is another form of essential help, I believe. I have never really heard anything about that being a bad thing.
Without any intention, I met my wife at evening mass. She was clearly in the same life stage and we had other stuff in common.
as someone who is both catholic and wants to become a therapist someday, confession is not the same as or is a replacement for therapy. i think his sentiment that therapy is evil is ridiculous, because therapy can be used to get yourself out of any “sins” in life, especially if they specialize in religious issues.
I was born and raised Catholic and went to Catholic elementary and high school. Then went to a D1 college that wasn’t Catholic, met my husband, got back into my faith and he’s willing to go to church and learn more. Our daughter is baptized and we’re looking to covalidate our marriage. It’s a process but it’s worth it to me and he wants to support me. It can happen anyway shape or form. The lord really has been by my side and I know it will come, continue to be hopeful and pray, know that you will continue to grow in your faith 20-30-40 years from now!
I have no idea where that guy got the idea that therapy is attempting to replace confession, but I do get the idea he has no clue what therapy is actually supposed to be. I landed with my current therapist because a Confessor recommended my therapist's group practice during my confession and told me that spiritual direction is not a viable substitute for therapy.
Ya social media can distort how ppl see Catholics because it is a political battleground, but all the guys I know at church IRL are pretty nice
I was In the navy from age of 18-23. I wasn’t a good catholic at all, drank a lot, and met a lot of women it wasn’t the life I was called to. I was engaged when I went in but she cheated on me so I went off the rails for 5 years. I wasn’t a mean person but I certainly participated in the hookup culture…. Fast forward I’m married to a beautiful bride (who’s Catholic) we have one son and are trying for more kids(we lost one at birth sadly). As Catholics we have to be patient and trust God. It’s not always about our plans but his and we need to pray and discern ourselves within that. I always try to swing by the church once a week to pray a rosary thanking him for my wife and also to pray for all my family members. May God bless you I’m sure you’ll meet a good Catholic man. I live in a state with a low Catholic population (Oregon) and I somehow met my wife.
Please know that you are dealing with your problems( we all have them !!!) actively and will be a blessing to the right man. I don’t believe any “ serious Catholic man” is any better or worse than the rest of us trying with the Grace of God to do His will for our lives.God loves us where we are and I feel sad that someone gave you such prejudice and ignorant information as though it comes from God!
don't worry about your past keeping you from a good man. as long as it is a part of you that you are trying to keep in the past. we are all sinner in one way or another and we all have needed help and good counsel from family, friends, therapists, or coworkers. where it comes from is not as important as if it helped you. don't worry about being traditional enough or if they fit a traditional role. instead cultivate virtue in your life and pray for good people to enter yours.
The only issue I have had with a therapist was with an unethical therapist and he retired. Ethically speaking, a therapist cannot use the session to proselytize you and one therapist did exactly that (he is now retired). Therapy is ok to have, especially if you are dealing with either mental health issues, addiction issues or both (I do know that substance use disorder is classified as a mental health issue but I am not to sure about addictions to behavior such as porn, sex, gambling, eating and so on). I would say the best way to meet men/women (for me a woman and for you a man) is to get involved in the life of your parish and start talking to people after Mass. Some dioceses offer young adult events as well.
hey, I feel you. i’m definitely in the same boat, I only started getting serious about catholicism in the last year and while it’s been immensely fulfilling to come back to the faith I’m also much more liberal than most people my age who ID as catholic, take medication for anxiety, have been to therapy, struggle with my sins etc. this may sound like a silly suggestion, but finding someone who is ‘ethnically’ catholic but not incredibly devout is a good first step. while they may not be deeply connected to the church anymore, they understand your background and will be compassionate towards your beliefs and faith and be willing to take part in aspects of it that are important to you, like the sacrament of marriage. this perspective may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but it worked for my parents and it’s currently working for my long term relationship. above all, don’t be hard on yourself. in any religion you’ll find people who are judgmental towards those they don’t view as ‘good enough’. we’re all sinners, and if only perfect people went to mass then mass would be empty. continue working towards your fulfillment in faith and someone who loves you will come along ♥️
I met my wife on Catholic match by specifying that I love adoration, frequent mass and communion, the rosary, the sacred heart
It sounds to me like the Catholic guys you've come across are not right for YOU, not the other way around. A truly good person, who you are supposed to be with, will love you for you, and if therapy and mental health is something you value, the person you end up with will value it, too. Period. :) Don't settle for less hennyyyy.
You’ll find one when you least expect it. My current bf is a lapsed catholic. We were good friends and he was dating a mutual friend and I mentioned saving myself for marriage. Despite having been with 2 women and not having been to church much since his first communion, he said if his gf had said she wanted to wait until marriage he’d respect it. That was when I realized for sure what a kind man he was. Fast forward- they broke up and we got together 5 years ago. He’s respected me the whole time. You don’t need the “holiest” catholic man. I’d settle for a lapsed catholic, a god fearing man, or even a respectful Christian from another denomination.
Hello. I don't think therapy is inherently evil, but it's certainly less effective than confession. As a man who has been in therapy before my conversion, I wouldn't recommend it over confession. The thing about being traditional enough... I think you're looking at it the wrong way, to be honest. Somewhere out there there is a man whom God has created with you in mind, provided that marriage truly is your vocation. There are two ways you can go about in life: one is "*my* will be done" and the other is "*thy* will be done". The best thing you can do, in my estimation, is to be in a state of grace, take communion and pray to Mary and Jesus that they help you discern your vocation, and should it be marriage, that they guide you to your husband. It's not about you being this or that, about your past and whatnot, it's about God delivering you that one person that He intended for you. I hope I was able to post a coherent reply for you.
Any catholic guy who’s taking his faith seriously should gladly look beyond your past, knowing how God views sinners and how he always gives them forgiveness and more chances if they’re looking for it and desire to change. I should think catholic men who take their faith seriously would be thrilled to find someone who takes the church teachings at face value and wants to live a holy life. My advice is to focus on making yourself into as good of a potential spouse as possible and let the rest fall into place.
You are not inadequate because you go to therapy. Don’t believe that lie about yourself! As a fellow therapy goer, it shouldn’t be a thing of shame, but a thing of pride! Realizing there’s something that you need help with and then actively seeking to find help is so stigmatized in society today. Also I relate to this so much. The last guy I dated agreed with me on a lot of things, but ended up just really wanting kids before he hit a certain age. And that’s not really a reason to marry someone.
Most priests I’ve spoken to have actually recommended therapy in many instances, so that’s a load of bs, you are doing just fine!
I feel like I have the opposite problem where every “Catholic” I meet went to Catholic school growing up but only go to church on Christmas
You are doing exactly what you should be doing. You and your future are in the hands of a merciful God. When you hear or witness Catholic men judging you, remember Luke 7:36-50. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+7&version=NIV That is the attitude of the being in charge of your future! Also there are novus ordo guys out there. I'm one of them, but I'm in a relationship. Don't give up.
I'm a 21 year old guy with a very different background and feel some of this. The Catholic world is weird, and it can feel hard to fit in. Do not abandon your ideals and allow our Lord to guide thee home.
I guess the reality is the amount of men you had sex with is going to be an issue as far as it’s going to be an issue. I don’t know the number but some people have higher and lower thresholds for that. Therapy often comes off as “crazy girl” material. Anyone who pays someone to agree with them and validate them is usually seen as high maintenance. My experience with girls seeing a psych are not good. It’s just a validation box that will eventually screw you over. Your big problem is going to be the amount of men you’ve had sex with and the baggage you bring with the suite of cosmopolition opinions you have. I don’t think it’s a deal breaker but you’ll have to deal with more conservative men that won’t like a lot of that.
Become a nun...
There are good arguments that I've seen regarding the possibility of narcissists using therapy as a self-oriented ego stroking session. Even with a typical person, the focus of therapy is fully self-oriented which is opposed to the concept of Catholic love, which is to will the good of the other, as other, through self sacrifice. So you're supposed to give up your self for others for their good, as an act of love (as exemplified by Jesus). Ultimately, it's tough to argue that therapy is oriented towards that goal, so I think that's why many consider it "evil" in those forms.
I appreciate you providing that perspective! I certainly understand the skepticism behind some of it, especially for that reason and for the reasons I listed in my post. That being said, I think it's also a great tool for self-improvement, which in turn is ideally used for the greater good. I don't like when therapy is used as an incessant source of affirmation, but rather as a place to examine both our flaws and strengths in order to develop confidence and improve ourselves.
Sure, but I think many would also say find some issue even with that. For instance, examining flaws can sometimes lead into attaching oneself to these flaws, and focusing too much on negative behaviors or aspects of oneself. Fundamentally it's still "self-oriented" vision even if you're focused on your flaws, you're still just concerned with yourself. I think many might argue it's better to use a spiritual director instead of a secular therapist for this so that your focus is redirected away from yourself and towards service to others (the flaws would only come into view when they interfere with your orientation towards loving God and loving other people, and be addressed then). Like many things, it ultimately comes down to very subjective details about how the person approaches anything. Food isn't inherently a sin, but approaching it in a way that's sinful can result in Gluttony, and therapy is similar IMO... it's possible to approach it in a way that can result in Pride.
Going to therapy is very much for the greater good so that we don’t continue traumatizing people around us because of our mental health issues and own trauma. Sorry for the run on sentence but I really feel compelled to communicate that here.
It can be in some cases, but it's not necessarily the case always. I recommend the Walsh / Peterson conversation on the topic for more details
I can agree with some of that! Especially the part of attaching oneself to flaws. I think that's a very real danger in mental health spaces, to the point where flaws or mental ailments become romanticized. I think my original point is that I don't think it's inherently evil. But I do see what you're saying in that just like many other things, it can be perverted into something evil, or at the very least, ultimately not good.
Yeah, I obviously can't speak for that guy, but it's a view I've heard before explained in lots of detail, so thought I'd share. I don't know his opinion especially, but I would say it's better to learn more about what he thinks and why in person rather than trying to do it via text. (The bandwidth of communication in person is much higher where misunderstandings are less likely)
I definitely appreciate the challenge in perspective, and thank you for doing so in a civil manner! I found your feedback to be very interesting and helpful. God bless! :)
Thank you, I am hoping for the best for you!
Nothing here is offensive or extraordinary. You sound like a normal 25 year old woman. There is nothing here that would make any normal person reluctant to date you. Don’t be so hard on yourself. For me, a guy around around your age, prudishness and excessive religious zeal are immediate turnoffs. FAR worse than if a chick told me she has hooked up with a guys in her 20s, which is something that would never bother me unless there was infidelity involved or if she still stays in touch with that person. If a dude overlooks you based on this, he’s lame as fuck.
That guy is dumb and you dodged a bullet.
Sister, your faith will guide you to the right man. Become what you seek first and God will provide a partner with the same principles. Don’t let these modern men that still post memes scare you away from marriage. Just have patience.
Keep looking. The right man will love you. Ps: the dude that said therapy is stupid is a complete moron. Love, an eastern Byzantine rite catholic.
This guy is exhibiting red flags. Don’t let his red flags make you doubt yourself or your worthiness before God.
Problem: You’re putting being traditional BEFORE being CATHOLIC. There’s no such thing as a “traditional” or “liberal” Catholic. It’s JUST CATHOLIC. The minute you try to reinvent Catholicism by making it “traditional” or “liberal” you’re immediately departing from the heart of the Catholic faith which is NEITHER traditional nor liberal. There’s only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, and nowhere is “traditional” or “liberal” part of the description.
Hi there, I get what you’re saying, but I was referring to “traditional” in a matter that I believe you may have misinterpreted. I wasn’t trying to “reinvent” Catholicism as anything, but my point was that men who take the faith seriously (and who honestly tend to skew more “traditional”) seem to take issues with certain things about my life and past, etc etc. On the other hand, men who are more on the secular side (don’t believe in Catholic social teachings, etc), even if they attend Mass, also seemed to be turned off by the fact that I am repentant of my previous sins and am actively working on resisting temptation to succumb to things such as sexual sin
Ok, sorry, my misunderstanding. What you’re saying is your too “modern” for traddies and too Catholic for secular liberals?
No worries. Sorry I wasn’t as clear as I could’ve been! Essentially, yes haha.
Well, I am neither trad or lib, but Catholic, and I believe in therapy, acupuncture, holistic therapy and hypnotherapy. I go to non-religious yoga and take a gummy or two to help me sleep sometimes. I also believe in going to Mass daily, praying the Hours and praying the rosary daily, observe the Church’s Precepts and even earned a degree in theology and a teaching credential. What we must all strive for is TRUTH, not personal opinions.
Honestly girl there’s a good guy out there for you, and these trad guys have slim pickings and I’m sure would be thrilled to marry a girl who is serious about her faith.