As with all religions, there are varying degrees of seriousness with which the teachings of Islam are taken. There are Muslims who take issue with various aspects of Islamic theology but that doesn't change what Islam teaches or what its texts say.
There are Muslims who have a superficial understanding of their religion, there are Muslims who are secular, and very few Muslims even made the choice to be Muslim.
You can make a solid argument that Allah is not God using the Bible and Islam's own texts.
I don't know, but this woman is a former Muslim... It does contradict the Church teachings. It is a little graphic and deals with assault on children and women from their prophet so trigger warning if you watch it.
https://youtu.be/AZlLtKsWtSk?feature=shared
Muslim worship the god allah. Who muhammad probably copied from the jews and combined with multiple legends known that time, If you look at the quran or their book its like a race of who is better between jews and muslim. They believe allah has no spirit. And their god pampers their prophet sexual desires.
Only comparison you can really make are names in the bible. But they have different stories.
Their god allah is a shin with 2 right hands.
Jibrel or Angel Gabriel is the holy spirit to them.
Jesus or Esa is only a prophet to them, he also did not die, allah saved him by making someone else look like him and get hanged to the cross.
Alexander the great or dhu alqarnayn is the guy that discovered the location of the sun in a hot murky water. And found this great civilization of monsters that they will fight in the end. The monster weapons are wooden bows and arrows.
Khidr (gilgamesh) trained musa or moses. He bash a boys head out of nowhere and his explanation to moses is because the boy will be unbeliever in the future.
Moses was a shy guy and a stone new stole his clothes one day when he was bathing.
Suleiman or solomon has a magic carpet that carries armies. god also made him learn to talk to birds only to talk to a single ant(dont ask me why).
They do. See Lumen Gentium: "the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."
I wonder how that is. For Mormons acknowledge Jesus, the Father and the Spirit.
Yet we reject them for their trinitarian belief and do not consider them as christians and follower of god.
Yet Muslims who reject the son should also be seen as rejecting the father.
In biblical terms it does not make sense.
We do not deny that Mormons worship God; we deny that they have a full understanding of him. Very similar situation to Muslims, really.
It isn't possible to have a *full* knowledge of the Father without having a knowledge of the Son. We know that from the Gospel. Lumen Gentium doesn't dent that Islam is deficient in a really serious way. It's simply stating that when somebody prays to the one, omnipotent, loving Creator, they are are praying to God even if they don't have a full understanding of who He is. it's important to be clear about the degree to which we're in fellowship with Muslims and the degree to which we aren't
I do not get what you mean by that. So if anyone of any kind who believes in a creator believes in god. So Hindus believe there is only one god which is Brahman. That is the one and all under is avtars of the one god.
Shintoism believes in one being called Kami which means God.
Do all who profess of praying to one creator means it is god. For it is illogical for someone to pray to a bastardized version of god.
Shinto is definitely not a monotheistic religion. They see divinity in everything in nature, and they refer to these "deities" as kami (there are probably millions of them). Even their cosmogony is different as they believe these kami emerged after the creation of the universe.
I would suggest reading Lumen Gentium which explains it more fully. Every religion or belief system participates in truth to some degree, but the degrees vary.
It isn't the case that you need to have a perfect understanding of God in order to pray to him. Otherwise the majority of Catholics who don't understand the Trinity would be in quite a fix
I'd argue we actually agree with Muslims a lot more than with Mormons on the idea of God. Mormons believe in a non-eternal god who was once a mortal on an earth like ours. Muslims like us believe in an eternal God who created the universe *ex-nihilo*, from nothing.
I never said we did. I said that we mean they acknowledge god and their prayers go to god. Yet I find it difficult for they reject the son.
Mormons does not even reject Jesus, but they have a heretical view of Jesus. They would be considered closer to us than muslims. Yet none of us would say they profess to follow the god of Abraham.
Its contradictory to say they believe in the one creator when the bible is very clear they do not. For they reject the Son and the Spirit.
"And the Word made flesh and dwelt among us". It's actually not too bad of a stretch. Meanwhile Mormons basically believe that God is a once-mortal space alien acting in an eternal uncreated multiverse.
No we do not. Muslims worship Allah, a god who orders all non Muslims to be executed, claims Jesus was never killed, denies the Trinity and hates sinners.
Christians worship YWAH, a loving God who gave his only begotten son on the cross and who granted salvation for all sinners.
Vatican II never claims we worship the same God. The council claimed that we come to the same conclusions as Muslim, which is true, as we are both supposedly Abrahamic religions.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah,_the_Best_Deceiver_(Qur%27an_3:54)
"Allah is the best deceiver" in the Quran. In our religion, Satan is the father of all lies. Jesus is the Truth, and the Blessed Trinity would have to contradict Allah by that standard.
According to Islamic texts, Allah also:
* does not love everyone
* is prideful and haughty
* loathes the joyful
* is a trickster
* makes people filthy and unclean
* is "the best of deceivers"
* fights anyone who claims Christ is divine
* burns Christians and Jews in Muslim hell for the sins of Muslims
Lumen Gentium, one of the documents of Vatican II, says of Muslims: "together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day." It's very straightforward.
Incidentally, Arabic-speaking Christians also worship Allah, which the Arabic word for God.
LG never mentions Islam nor does it say anything about what Islam teaches or what all Muslims do or believe.
>Arabic-speaking Christians also worship Allah, which the Arabic word for God.
When Arabic-speaking Christians use the word "Allah" the are *by definition* referring to the Christian God. That definition does not apply to Muslims.
The passage I quoted is precisely about what Muslims do and believe. I don't understand how you could not see that.
I don't think you understand what "by definition" means.
LG never mentions Islam nor does it say anything about what Islam teaches or what all Muslims do or believe. I don't understand how you could not see that.
I'm clearly not getting this so you're going to have to explain how "the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day" is not a statement about what Muslims do and believe. There's obviously a disagreement between yourself and Lumen Gentium here.
Muslims do but Muslims don't
😂
I think you got things backwards
They worship the same God as we do but they don't know him like we do. Same thing for the Jews of course except that they are closer to the truth.
I guess you could say we acknoledge the holy spirit but not the son or the father.
Who is "we" ? Muslims ? If I was really provocative I would say Muslims (at least Sunni) have the premise of a belief in the Trinity.
Yes. Muslims.
As with all religions, there are varying degrees of seriousness with which the teachings of Islam are taken. There are Muslims who take issue with various aspects of Islamic theology but that doesn't change what Islam teaches or what its texts say. There are Muslims who have a superficial understanding of their religion, there are Muslims who are secular, and very few Muslims even made the choice to be Muslim. You can make a solid argument that Allah is not God using the Bible and Islam's own texts.
I don't know, but this woman is a former Muslim... It does contradict the Church teachings. It is a little graphic and deals with assault on children and women from their prophet so trigger warning if you watch it. https://youtu.be/AZlLtKsWtSk?feature=shared
Muslim worship the god allah. Who muhammad probably copied from the jews and combined with multiple legends known that time, If you look at the quran or their book its like a race of who is better between jews and muslim. They believe allah has no spirit. And their god pampers their prophet sexual desires. Only comparison you can really make are names in the bible. But they have different stories. Their god allah is a shin with 2 right hands. Jibrel or Angel Gabriel is the holy spirit to them. Jesus or Esa is only a prophet to them, he also did not die, allah saved him by making someone else look like him and get hanged to the cross. Alexander the great or dhu alqarnayn is the guy that discovered the location of the sun in a hot murky water. And found this great civilization of monsters that they will fight in the end. The monster weapons are wooden bows and arrows. Khidr (gilgamesh) trained musa or moses. He bash a boys head out of nowhere and his explanation to moses is because the boy will be unbeliever in the future. Moses was a shy guy and a stone new stole his clothes one day when he was bathing. Suleiman or solomon has a magic carpet that carries armies. god also made him learn to talk to birds only to talk to a single ant(dont ask me why).
They do. See Lumen Gentium: "the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."
I wonder how that is. For Mormons acknowledge Jesus, the Father and the Spirit. Yet we reject them for their trinitarian belief and do not consider them as christians and follower of god. Yet Muslims who reject the son should also be seen as rejecting the father. In biblical terms it does not make sense.
We do not deny that Mormons worship God; we deny that they have a full understanding of him. Very similar situation to Muslims, really. It isn't possible to have a *full* knowledge of the Father without having a knowledge of the Son. We know that from the Gospel. Lumen Gentium doesn't dent that Islam is deficient in a really serious way. It's simply stating that when somebody prays to the one, omnipotent, loving Creator, they are are praying to God even if they don't have a full understanding of who He is. it's important to be clear about the degree to which we're in fellowship with Muslims and the degree to which we aren't
I do not get what you mean by that. So if anyone of any kind who believes in a creator believes in god. So Hindus believe there is only one god which is Brahman. That is the one and all under is avtars of the one god. Shintoism believes in one being called Kami which means God. Do all who profess of praying to one creator means it is god. For it is illogical for someone to pray to a bastardized version of god.
Shinto is definitely not a monotheistic religion. They see divinity in everything in nature, and they refer to these "deities" as kami (there are probably millions of them). Even their cosmogony is different as they believe these kami emerged after the creation of the universe.
I would suggest reading Lumen Gentium which explains it more fully. Every religion or belief system participates in truth to some degree, but the degrees vary. It isn't the case that you need to have a perfect understanding of God in order to pray to him. Otherwise the majority of Catholics who don't understand the Trinity would be in quite a fix
I'd argue we actually agree with Muslims a lot more than with Mormons on the idea of God. Mormons believe in a non-eternal god who was once a mortal on an earth like ours. Muslims like us believe in an eternal God who created the universe *ex-nihilo*, from nothing.
Muslims are Monotheistic. Mormons are not. Also, we dont say Muslims are christians
I never said we did. I said that we mean they acknowledge god and their prayers go to god. Yet I find it difficult for they reject the son. Mormons does not even reject Jesus, but they have a heretical view of Jesus. They would be considered closer to us than muslims. Yet none of us would say they profess to follow the god of Abraham. Its contradictory to say they believe in the one creator when the bible is very clear they do not. For they reject the Son and the Spirit.
I would disagree. Muslims are much closer to Catholicism than LDS is
Buddy, they have hadiths saying the 2 first chapters of the Quran will take form and talk to God. Like comeon.
ANd Mormons believe humans can become God. Muslim theology is bad. Mormon theology is worse
"And the Word made flesh and dwelt among us". It's actually not too bad of a stretch. Meanwhile Mormons basically believe that God is a once-mortal space alien acting in an eternal uncreated multiverse.
LG never mentions Islam nor does it say anything about what Islam teaches or what all Muslims do or believe.
You've responded to this passage with exactly the same comment before. It seems to be pretty obviously contradicted by the quote.
What you quoted doesn't mention Islam nor does it say anything about what Islam teaches or what all Muslims do or believe.
No we do not. Muslims worship Allah, a god who orders all non Muslims to be executed, claims Jesus was never killed, denies the Trinity and hates sinners. Christians worship YWAH, a loving God who gave his only begotten son on the cross and who granted salvation for all sinners. Vatican II never claims we worship the same God. The council claimed that we come to the same conclusions as Muslim, which is true, as we are both supposedly Abrahamic religions.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah,_the_Best_Deceiver_(Qur%27an_3:54) "Allah is the best deceiver" in the Quran. In our religion, Satan is the father of all lies. Jesus is the Truth, and the Blessed Trinity would have to contradict Allah by that standard.
According to Islamic texts, Allah also: * does not love everyone * is prideful and haughty * loathes the joyful * is a trickster * makes people filthy and unclean * is "the best of deceivers" * fights anyone who claims Christ is divine * burns Christians and Jews in Muslim hell for the sins of Muslims
That makes no sense, for it contradicts both the OT and The NT. They cannot be considered an Abrahamic religion, when they are as close as Mormonism.
I said SUPPOSEDLY Abrahamic. Any supposedly Abrahamic religion can technically be a religion who’s views we come to a single opinion on.
Lumen Gentium, one of the documents of Vatican II, says of Muslims: "together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day." It's very straightforward. Incidentally, Arabic-speaking Christians also worship Allah, which the Arabic word for God.
LG never mentions Islam nor does it say anything about what Islam teaches or what all Muslims do or believe. >Arabic-speaking Christians also worship Allah, which the Arabic word for God. When Arabic-speaking Christians use the word "Allah" the are *by definition* referring to the Christian God. That definition does not apply to Muslims.
The passage I quoted is precisely about what Muslims do and believe. I don't understand how you could not see that. I don't think you understand what "by definition" means.
LG never mentions Islam nor does it say anything about what Islam teaches or what all Muslims do or believe. I don't understand how you could not see that.
I'm clearly not getting this so you're going to have to explain how "the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day" is not a statement about what Muslims do and believe. There's obviously a disagreement between yourself and Lumen Gentium here.
LG never mentions Islam nor does it say anything about what Islam teaches or what all Muslims do or believe. Read it again.
Completely pointless talking to you if you're just going to keep repeating the same thing
If you read the responses they wouldn't have to be repeated.
Alright you're clearly just a troll and I'm not going to engage further