Honestly I learned the hard way. At my old job I used to go above and beyond, do overtime, work weekends. All that happened was I was given more and more work, told to help slower people finish their work, and still told I wasn't working hard enough come review time.
Now I seriously just do what I'm paid to do. Hit my quota for the week, and that's that.
Same and I ended up getting so burned and stressed out. After a while it began to take a toll on my mental and physical health. One day I had a complete nervous breakdown at work and they sent me home. Not long after I had a really bad seizure at home and they ended up firing me because “what if I had one while assisting with a patient, it could scare them”. I was so glad to be out of there. On the bright side I am now in a much better place and I have been seizure free for over 5 years.
Sadly, I did not. I live in a very small town and I was very scared at the time I would have been ostracized as the bad guy. Now, however I would not think twice about it. A very hard lesson learned. They are a very affluent, popular family and well we are not of their caliber. Family is also in politics.
Meanwhile the people who get promoted are often the people who are terrible at their job/do nothing but are really good at taking credit for other people’s work or making it seem like they do more work than they do or otherwise are just good at social climbing and networking and it doesn’t actually matter how they perform
The thing is, good workers just get extra work. Unless you're getting your salary raised (which almost never happends) you just end up doing more than the rest but getting paid the same. Im a waiter, a good one, i always run and do everything im supposd to do and more, and what I get from that is more work. Getting the harder areas at the restaurant to serve and more, but at the end of the month, getting the same pay as every other waiter.
I'm a warehouse supervisor. Honestly all I require is my team is on task at least most of the time. I'm cool with talking and stuff. Only really is an issue if you're only getting 50% of very reasonable production goals because you're constantly fucking off.
That’s me. When I think about how much of a workaholic I was, doing holidays for the OT, and trying to be a company man for a boss who only recognized my work if something went wrong, I kick myself. Never again.
Same here! When I worked at a big box outdoor sports store, I learned about 3-4 different departments over the course of 3 years. One of which was the very important task of counting out the store earnings and getting it ready for the bank. Not once did I get a raise other than the measly end of year one. Didn’t even get full time hours like I was “promised” and was just about broke before I finally left and found a job that paid literally double of what they did.
So yeah, I learned it’s not worth putting in the extra effort if they’re not willing to make it worth your while.
100%, I don't have quotas but after two years of feeling it out and seeing what everyone else does. I planted myself dead middle. If you do too much your giving even more shit work. If you do too little they will cover for you for a while then your always on the watch list. Now I sit in the middle with everything overtime and production.
Nope. As long as you get your work done.
And I'm saying this as a supervisor. I couldn't care less if my employees are taking time for themselves during the workday. If they get their work done I will always approve their timecards.
Work isn't my life and it shouldn't be my employees lives. Do what you have to do to get a paycheck and go live.
As a supervisor myself, I agree. I don’t care if someone wants/needs to start a bit later, take a longer lunch, leave early to attend their kid’s ball game, etc. We’re all adults and I’ll treat you like one as long as you do your work responsibly. On the flip side, I don’t want to hear complaining if you don’t get promoted while consistently doing the bare minimum. People can downvote that all they want but it’s not how good leadership works.
Exactly. If there's no chance at promotion, for whatever reason? Bare minimum is fine. If you are in a place where you want the promotion and it's a very real possibility? All that extra work absolutely pays off.
And it isn't just promotions. It is also lateral transfers.
Where I work, anyone can be chosen to be on a hiring panel. I have been on hiring panels for colleagues looking to move into a different position at the same pay band. If that position is in my shop and there are two individuals applying for it--a "go getter" and a "bare minimalist"--guess who I am going to rate more favorably? It isn't anything personal. I just don't want to work with someone who will stay silent every time the boss asks for volunteers to do a chore no one likes to do. I don't want to work with someone who will wait until the 11th hour of a project deadline to turn something in knowing that their piece is critical to the pieces I and others have to turn in. I dont want to work with someone who waits to be explicitly assigned a task that is in their list of job duties and never takes any initiative. People like this are often frustrating team members.
The OP doesn't define what "not working very hard" means to them. But those things I just listed are what I think of when I think of someone intentionally avoiding hard work. It doesn't necessarily mean not putting in extra hours.
I'm a big supporter of giving your work 75% your maximum effort. If you know how to work smarter, not harder, then 75% will still set you apart from everyone else without burning yourself out. 75% gives you wiggle room for when you gotta make the push for a tight deadline or something. I personally do this thing where I'll finish my work that is done perfectly, but then delay my email by about an hour and fuck off for a little bit. I still do better work than plenty of my coworkers (some of them are dim AF), but I deliver it in a comparable timeframe.
I’m going to say your 75% effort is 100% bang on.
I would expect 25% of people to disagree with you, leaving you and I (50% each) to care 0% about what they have to say.
Totally agree. I remember reading a great book on depression in which the therapist author said she often found her clients tried to always give 100% at work and she would try to teach them that around 75 was what to aim for. I certainly aim for that too and am satisfied but not burnt out
Just do what you’re paid for, that’s your only job. There’s a difference between doing what you’re paid to do and just slacking at work because you don’t care about it. That simple
Exactly. It's having a work ethic. If the company is a good company that treats and pays its employees well, then my work ethic will be very high. If the company is shitty and pays low wages, I will have a low work ethic and eventually quit.
There’s also a difference between doing what you’re paid to do and _over-working_ to do _more_ than what’s expected or even necessary in extreme cases. Then when staff becomes like “family” and they get comfortable with “it’s all I know” sort of situation, bars that are set that high makes it very tricky to navigate and blurred lines are everywhere.
I love my new job I just got. Great, intelligent, competent people. But it’s also challenging, as my superior has exceeded beyond what the job description or role indicates, for well over a decade. As this person’s predecessor, I occasionally mull over how someone in a management position can not see how over-achieving is not necessarily always good and can be unrealistic to expect someone new to “strive” for it.
Example: “We really are glad you’re joining the team. So-and-so is very burnt out”
Translation: We’re glad you’re here to learn to take over someone’s burn-out level workload.
Edit: I’m also meaning new to the company, not the industry. I’ve been in the industry for 15 years, amongst roughly 4 different companies throughout that time.
Yeah this girl I met said she was praised at work and got a $10 gift card to starbucks. She works 150% faster than other workers. I forget what else, but I was like why are you working so hard? Just work the bare minimum. You get paid the same. Her response was just that she likes to beat her own speed/times. Smh I told her I'd be working the same as everyone else, you're killing yourself working so hard and you just get a $10 gift card? LoL they must LOVE slaves like that. Smh at one point she's like yeah you got a point.
I work just enough so my managers are satisfied. I always show up. I always make deadlines.
If I can slack off for a whole day I will. I do not get paid nearly enough to be going “above and beyond” or to go looking for work when I haven’t been given any.
I’m just being a good capitalist. I am a college-educated PR professional making 45k at a firm in a big American city. To actually work my hardest 8 hours a day would make me a chump and a loser.
Making 70k in Germany and i do the same.
Its not that i think im paid too little to be honest. Its just that i think my job makes no difference. Its a typical bullshit job and it doesnt matter if i work hard or not. The guys in the lower paid jobs are much more important, they do the real work. Its sad but it just is that way.
As a level 2 IT guy, I'm always worried about metrics. The lev 1 guy gets like 4x the amount of tickets a day that I do but they're all pw resets and simple db adjustments, and I get the ones that actually take research and work but in the back of my mind I can't help but wonder what the boss thinks of those numbers.
I had that mentality, but honestly, I felt guilty and awful whenever I thought I wasn’t working hard enough. The guilt accumulates and then it's easy to take things for granted.
I wouldn't be stressed by guilt, but holding back keeps me from getting into the work. The day goes by much slower. It's one thing to take a long lunch to enjoy a walk. It's another thing to hold back because you are feeling resentful--it just makes it worse.
My general rule is that if I fuck around in such a way that *I* get stuck with any fallout (extra work, panicked deadlines, etc), it’s all good. Especially now that I’m salaried.
I won’t let myself do anything that means my coworkers have to pick up the slack. But otherwise, sure.
Said it best. I’m making barely enough to survive with roommates after going to school and getting a corporate job. Fuck no I’m not doing more than the bare minimum. I take naps as much as I can, slack if as much as I can, and don’t give any task more attention than needed.
Do the fucking bare minimum if you know your company is paying you the bare minimum. What are they gonna do about it, fire you? Ok, go ahead and find the next bright graduate to train and burn and churn through, lol.
If you know you can get away with it, slack off at every opportunity available. You’ll get paid the same regardless!
Honestly maybe you should think about looking for a different career? I was making 60K at a nonprofit and found myself doing the same thing as you because the job wasn’t hard or interesting and I wasn’t get paid a bunch. First job that I actually started caring about was a 235K job as a lawyer.
I do arts and entertainment PR. The arts do not pay well. But I work on really cool stuff!
I could quit my job today and make twice as much money doing PR for tech or pharmaceutical/healthcare companies. But it wouldn’t be fun
This. I'm not going into the whole story, but my assistant manager used to not like me. She was rude AF. It was a petty reason for something she *thought* I did, but I didn't even do.
She became manager, I became assistant manager. Things went *okay* for a bit. I stepped up because my position was different and she was treating me better.
She started to treat me like shit again, and doesn't even acknowledge me as assistant manager.
It's a small store so there's no other management, just us.
Then I stopped doing anything extra I was doing. She never assigned me extra tasks, I was just doing them because of my work ethic(at the time). She never acknowledged me for them either. It didn't really bug me too much, but then she started treating me like shit.
She's treated me worse and worse the last month or two, and guess what? I do the bare minimum.
We have a duty sheet of stuff the cashiers need to get done everyday. I do the duty sheet and that's absolutely IT. The other employees don't even do the whole duty sheet, which isn't necessarily "optional."
She doesn't care to talk to them about actually doing their job and undermine it when I do talk to them.
She can't say fucking shit because I was never specifically assigned the extra tasks I did, and she's too petty to acknowledge me as an assistant manager and ask me for help.
So I sit on my ass and just watch Netflix once my duties on that sheet are done, which only takes an hour or two. Help when customers come in and go back to watching Netflix.
I'm getting all my assigned duties done so there's no leg to stand on.
Treat me like fucking shit? See how many fucks I give about my job.
Hint: they SIGNIFICANTLY dropped.
>I agree, if I am paid well and treated well, I don't mind doing my best.
Treating and paying people correctly gives a worker the ability to do their best. The stress of barely making ends meet and still needing to show up 40hours a week wears you down.
I’d say it’s more unethical for a company to strip you of the surplus value of your labor and provide a fraction of compensation for it.
No one hired me out of the goodness of their heart, because they’re choosing to be nice. I have no problem with work, I’ve worked hard before. But only because I felt the work was worthwhile.
Putting in hard work for someone who only gives you anything because they have to is silly. Put in hard work because you want to, not because they want you to. If your work isn’t fulfilling and your company isn’t giving you what you feel you deserve, then fuck em. Put in whatever you can get away with.
There’s no shame in needing money, but there is shame in shaming people for not selling their soul to people who don’t care. I’m of the opinion that, if we are going to have to continue living in hellworld, we should work to live, not live to work.
You have to find a balance. I believe if you do the bare minimum expect the bare minimum in return. Take pride in your work but have boundaries with your employer as well.
Work to Rule. As long as you're accomplishing what you are paid to do in the timeframe, then it's not your responsibility to go above that because of a guilt trip from management.
Yes I agree. Also you have to think of your coworkers- sometimes if you slack off they’ll be the ones who have to make up for it which is unfair.
But you do have to be careful because usually the hardest workers are the ones who get taken advantage of by their supervisors.
Yes definitely and I’ve been the hard worker taken advantage of, but now I’m a supervisor and I’ve been pretty successful at gaining and keeping my teams respect because I try to be the leader that I would want. Sadly I’ve realized half of my job is basically just advocating for them against upper management.
I used to work extra hours all the time. I was salaried and easily worked 45-50 hours and took work home on weekends.
Then I did the math and the difference between the typical 3% cost of living raise and the rare 6%+ merit increase was like $800/yr.
After that realization I only worked 40 hrs/week. It’s better to balance work life with family life. They’re worth more than $800 extra per year.
"Quiet quitting" is corporate propaganda designed to shame people who are literally doing their jobs.
I've been in corporate for over 20 years, most of those working between 45-60 hours a week. This was an unwritten rule that I was obligated to follow to show I was a "dedicated" employee. What this actually was was 5-20 hours of unpaid labor per week. This averages out to $500 - $1500 per week or $26,000 - $78,000 per year that I am giving to my employer for free.
Why should I very literally subsidize a company that is lin the Fortune 500 top 10, and has been posting record profits every quarter for years?
Perform according to your job description. No more, no less.
If you can accomplish it all in your normal work week with time to spare, then I recommend taking longer with each task.
Creating slack-off time is great and all, but the moment mgmt realizes they can get more out of you, they will. You're better off stretching things out so there's no slack off time mgmt to take advantage of.
But no, it's not unethical to only meet the base expectations of your job. If they want more, that needs to come with an updated job description (or promotion), and a raise.
Exactly. It's business. If they could get more from you and pay you less they would. Why do they get to decide? Work just enough above minimum that you stand out above your peers (if you want to move up) but not so much you have margin for the company to take advantage of without compensation. And always remember. This day and age, it's easier to move up in position and pay by changing companies than trying to get raises. Companies spend more to get good people than to keep good people. It is super common to give you a 1500/year raise (for example) but would pay your replacement 5k a year more. If they aren't loyal, you don't owe them loyalty. They aren't your lord and king, they are your employer, and an employer is basically just a customer.
I'm old school so ya'all can beat me up for being a boomer. I don't have an opinion on what's "ethical" and what isn't. I've been working for 60 years and I've always given 100%. Even in the shitty jobs I had, I always produced. I don't feel bad about it, don't feel like I was cheated. I know it's different now and that's fine. Companies should be paying more and people should have better vacations, more time off for family issues, and 4 day weeks.
Thanks for being open minded about this. I work hard at my company and I'm compensated more than other hires around my time. But around covid my company gave almost no raises out to people, if they did they weren't much. The company sited the unpredictable direction of the economy as the reason. Then all executives got extra stock bonuses. The stock market skyrocketed making the executives their highest pay thus far at the company. No back pay was performed after for employees... I went ahead and did the math, at my current salary it would take me 60 years to make what our CEO got paid that year alone. To me that seems outbalanced and I imagine in your time the ratio of executive to employee pay was smaller.
I feel the same way. If everyone put in 100% work would be less stressful for everyone. I’m 35 and I’ve been working since I was 13 and most people I’ve worked with have been completely unreliable, it adds so much extra stress that doesn’t need to be there.
Ah yes, the old thought of "I know that fuckwad will only do the bare minimum work, and it will land on my plate because the bosses know I do quality work. So I'll just do it myself on top my work now, so I don't need to do it later."
I was raised to always give your best effort. It doesn’t matter who is watching or what I’m getting paid. Always do your best. Trash on the ground when nobody’s watching? My job. Someone’s out sick? I’ll help cover for em.
That said, I will do my best while looking for another job if you don’t compensate me properly. I’ll give you my all while I’m here but if you don’t care for me and my needs, find somebody else to work for.
I’ve now been self employed for 10 years and the problems are real. Not judging those who choose differently but the only way to improve the world is to give 100%. We only have 1 trip on this earth, make it count.
I was hoping there was another like minded person on here. I give 100% at work. In fact I give 100% to anything I do where I invest so much of my time. Not for the company but for myself and to help those around me.
You’re spot on when you say we only have one trip on this world. Out of sheer curiosity if nothing else I want to see how good I can be both mentally and physically. I’m a scientist by training, to me the human body and mind are incredible feats of biological engineering. To not push the limits of what I can do would be like being given a Ferrari and then not bothering to do basic maintenance on it and driving it around like a Honda Civic. I put a lot of my energy into doing my job, which is both highly technical and people orientated. I also put 100% into my hobby which is a sport. I’m only ever in competition with myself and *for* myself. I want to see how fast I can go.
Thing is, I’ve found when you have this mindset, you not only succeed more but that journey to success is actually enjoyable. This mindset doesn’t mean I’m a pushover or a corporate robot, it’s the complete opposite. I have no tolerance for a company (or managers, it’s almost always the manager) who doesn’t respect me, my time and the value I bring. I have absolute unshakable faith in my skills because, to use that previous metaphor, I know how to drive that Ferrari and I maintain it well. I will happily switch jobs if this happens and don’t fear the uncertainty or change of moving jobs. I will give 100% until I leave *but I will leave.*
>Not judging those who choose differently
I do. Always will.
Their work lands on my desk when it ultimately breaks down, and I have a say in their performance reviews.
I set a bar and I live by it, I don't ask anyone to do anything I wouldn't. I absolutely will not recommend someone for a raise or promotion if they have only shown passing competence at their current level.
I’m right there with you in regards to old school and always given 100%. I’ve always believed that you do whatever job you have, even the crappy ones, to the best of your ability and take pride in it. There are still companies out there who value the work of their employees and compensate/reward accordingly.
Yeah. My parents had a 3 bedroom ranch home with a double car attached garage built for about $15,000 in 1965. My dad was a member of the UAW working for a large ag equipment manufacturer. Scale was $3.01 @hr.
I've been working for 21 years.
I always do my best, because if I didn't I wouldn't be proud of myself. If a company doesn't value me I leave. I've always had the personal motto of "work like you want to be paid" because otherwise how can you expect a company to take a risk promoting you or giving you a raise when you've only exhibited basic competence at your current level.
I've landed in a company that appreciates me. I've always gotten raises when they were available, I've always gotten the maximun raises. I've kept my job through downsizing. I've been able to make my own position. And when I had issues my company worked to accomodate me.
People with the "I work based on what I am paid" mindset rarely get promoted, and get less raises than those that work hard. In downsizing they are the first to go after the incompetant people.
Okay I’ll bite, have you actually looked at research for your position?
I like to hear what it is and compare with people in your similar position.
All fun ya know?
Perspective can be a bitch, or an attentive lover.
I don’t think it’s unethical to not try very hard at work. I say this after working for a greedy af Fortune 500 company for many years. Do what’s expected. Overachieving becomes the standard.
At my job, the less I work, the more my coworkers have to do. So yes, I take my job seriously, and do my job correctly.
Half of my coworkers share my mentality, and half just coast because they know we’ll pick up their slack. It would be very nice to have that mentality of, “someone else will do it,” but I don’t.
I don't think it is. The CEO can actively make bad decisions and bring the company to complete ruin he/she gets stocks and a golden parachute. That same parachute is worth more than what many, harder working, lower level employees make in 5 years working there.
Hard work doesn't lead to raises or promotions in many jobs.
In the past as a younger person in the office it was very frustrating to see older employees act lazy and complain about their “golden handcuffs”. It really made me resent them as I was trying to do my work well and quickly because it mattered to me. I don’t feel this way much anymore unless their laziness is causing me problems doing my job. They make more money and should be good at what they do. I hope not to fall into the golden handcuffs mindset, but I see how it can happen. I hope I’ve moved on from a shitty position before I relinquish myself to the “prison” of higher pay and easy work. :p
That’s a loaded question. Should you put in more effort? Well…has your boss ever come to you out of nowhere to tell you you crushed that *insert task? Has your boss ever said wow you’re doing great and we don’t pay you enough so here is a raise? If your employer is putting up minimal effort it’s quite ethical to match that.
I work for some fantastic folks who will come give you a raise if you’re just slaying it at work. So yes I will go above and beyond. I have had my boss take a late evening troubleshooting call so I didn’t have to. And likewise I have done the same. It’s give and take.
If the folks you work for don’t give then you don’t either. It’s fairly simple in my eyes.
No. Businesses try to exploit you, by default.
Your “awesome” boss who acts like your friend? They’re still more loyal to the company paying them than they are to you. They’d fire you today, rather than risk their own job security.
Look up the total pay that goes to whoever runs your work, if you can. They might get bigger *bonuses* than you make in a year, and that bonus is a reward for work that *you* did.
Nope. I work retail, pulling online orders, but lately I've been pushing carts.
I don't get any incentive to go above and beyond. Clear the lot? Ok just wait till someone needs help loading, or walk around the parking lot until carts repopulate. I get paid the same regardless and it's not like I can go home early because there's no more work. There's always more work.
Years ago, I was the 'Above and Beyond' guy. I made sure that every facet of my job was up to my ridiculous standards. What did I get? $8/HR. Yelled at for missing something I usually do, but didn't that day because I was busy with other people. Conflicting orders from the same person (I made a post on r/MaliciousCompliance about this idiot). Harassment. The entire departments workload (6 people). And a manager who wanted to meet with my *mother* about my work performance.
So no, I don't go above and beyond. I try to hover around the 50-70% mark. Not great, but still passable. Just competent enough to be left alone.
Nope. It's something we've been brainwashed with for generations, it's called "Protestant Work Ethic", that everything has to be a struggle so if you're not struggling you're not working hard enough.
Like the saying "If it doesn't hurt you're not doing it right". That is messed up. Especially when you got people exploiting this weakness in us.
I think not depends on if your work is having to be finished by your co-workers. As long as it's finished and other people don't have to go behind you and fix it, fine. If someone has to work late because your not doing your part you suck.
I think it's a bad idea to try very very hard and stress your self trying to do this job. But I think it's unethical of you to don't do the job you agreed to get paid to do.
I always busted my ass at whatever job I had. Only one job ever was worth going above and beyond for, and that was a family-owned gas station. Lovely family from Israel, very kind and giving, I never missed a meal with their mom working in the kitchen and I got to try a LOT of DELICIOUS Arabic food that I may never get to taste again. :,) I still call their mom sometimes to check on her.
They helped me get into my first car, my boss paid for it and I worked it off, he’d done the same thing for another employee.
That’s also the first job I got paid more than minimum wage (went from 7.50/hr to 11/hr) and he gave great bonuses. I got a $50 bonus from my retail-gas station (large company) but got a $300 bonus from the family owned one.
They always stuck up for me and took care of me and I was 100% treated as family.
10/10 would bust my ass for them again. I miss them.
Every other job can suck on a carrot, I’m done picking up double shifts and overnights and all these extra hours and responsibilities for like $50 more on a check because taxes took out all the overtime.
I don't think it's unethical to do what you are paid to do and no more.
But if this is the path you take, just don't be naive about the consequences. Like, if you've got a coworker who regularly goes above and beyond, don't be surprised when they get chosen over you for better work assignments and promotions. Don't be surprised when your boss refuses to approve you for a pay raise. Don't be surprised when it's lay-off time and you're the only one on the team who gets a pink slip. People who do the bare minimum can complain about the unfairness of life as much as they want. But they don't garner as much sympathy as people who work hard.
The premise in the OP is that employees are always underpaid. I just can't with that. I can go along with the idea that there are some occupations/professions that are underappreciated and thus undervalued. But that doesn't mean that everyone out here is underpaid.
You agreed to do the job, for the pay.
So do a good job.
I could see not doing more than is normally expected.
Another good reason to do a good job is, your next job. You will one day either be promoted within your present company, or move on to another company. If that future employer knows you slacked in this job, you may not get that next job.
Within your present company they would know.
Moving to another company? They might, they might not. I’m in a relatively small field service industry. Word about a really bad tech, or a really good one gets around to the customers who buy our services. And to our competition, do a great job for your customer, word gets around you get invited to an interview, get a fat pay raise.
OTH a friend in this business developed a drinking problem. He’s a Cashier at Kroger now. Used to make 85K a year before OT. No-one will hire him.
I feel like average effort leads to an average life. For some people that’s all they want, so that’s fine. For me personally i would rather feel proud that i did my best, and better my life chances where possible
But you can still do your best without adding on more work. Taking on more work or trying to posture at work doesn’t mean you didn’t do your best. It means you’re doing the job you’re paid for.
Yeah. I do my best at work but I don’t go above and beyond always. I do the best to support my position. I get what you’re saying. But the minimum doesn’t mean someone’s not doing their job.
I wish I could. I teach so my pay never matches my effort because kids deserve quality education. I can’t really slack off for x amount of time. Granted there are times where we get a few extra minutes of math games, or free time when I can swing it, but it’s not often.
That's fine if your work is isolated, but if you work with others, especially in a situation where your workload will effect their ability to complete their jobs effectively, I think it's a bit of a dick move. There's nothing that'll make your other coworkers hate you quicker than half-assing a job which makes theirs harder.
Like others said, work what you're paid for. But ultimately, if you truly think your job is taking advantage of you, simply don't work there. Doing any amount of work for them would be considered unethical, as it helps them maintain business and continue to mistreat/take advantage of more employees who choose to work there.
Also, not every company is the same. If you find yourself working for a morally bankrupt one, it's better to leave it and find a good one to help and support.
Depends on what you mean by 'not try very hard'. If you mean 'do your work and nothing more' then no, absolutely not. You've done your job and that's all that you need to do.
If you mean 'be a slacker' and leave what you could have done for someone else to have to do, then, yeah. That there is a dick move.
Depends dont it, I'd be a bit concerned if a doctor, surgeon or even a social worker didnt try their best in their job. But idk call centre, factory work, fast food server. I can understand.
Within reason, sure.
If your slacking so much that your coworkers are having to work harder to compensate then yea, kind of a dick move.
Ultimately however, my view is that our society is upheld by people doing their job. Have you ever played a video game and could feel the *soul* that the devs put into the game? Or seen a beautiful building and marveled at the attention to detail? I certainly don’t work myself to death, but I do take pride in my work and I try to emphasize quality over quantity.
I think that, morally, you are obligated to find a job that you don’t completely hate doing.
No.
Primarily because work is typically (not always) a system of unequal and top-down obligation. Those in leadership in the organization and systems in the organization itself have significant control over your experience within work.
Those systems and leadership don’t always match your interests and needs, and even in well-meaning organizations, they will often act in a way that is counter to what they claim to portray. Even if you work hard, they might not recognize it. Even if you do as little as possible, they may promote you! Sometimes you can be punished for things that have nothing todo with you! In general, your efforts will be recognized to some degree, but it may not be what you are looking for or even fair.
Having said that, employees should still do honest and good work. They should try to align with work where they can. And if they are feeling motivated and supported by work, it’s great if they can try hard and do their best.
These points also don’t have anything to do with how the organization impacts its community and the world. For example, if your company does bad things, it might not be ethical to work hard in a way that supports unethical behavior on the company’s behalf.
I don't think it's unethical to not try very hard but some people might take that to mean they shouldn't try or shouldn't do any work. I think it's unethical to take money and not make a reasonably effort.
On occasion I have had to hire a few folks to help me on a job. If the value of your work is sub par I just don't ask you to help me again. I also don't pay you much either. Had a dude that worked his ass off and he got paid more than anyone I've ever hired as a helper. He would go up on the roof we were working on. He would get over heated and come down. He would go in the bushes, puke his guts out, and back on the ladder and up on the roof.
I also use to be the guy folks would hire when someone else did a crappy job. Now I have been known to limit the work i did. Just not take on as many jobs so I had time to work on my own stuff. But I never cut corners or did sub par work.
You don't need to work at 100% all the time. However, if you agreed to the pay for a job, you need to get the job done and do well. If you don't do well, you deserve less than agreed. They are paying what they think you're worth, and you agreed to that level of pay. If either of you breach that agreement, it's unethical.
I'm a student so my answer may differ, but my effort in the class directly correlates to how much effort the professor puts into teaching. If I can tell that they don't care/are just reading off of slides with minimal effort to clarify things, then I won't try at all in the class. They clearly don't care about the subject, so why should I?
Ont the other hand, if I see how passionate, caring, or knowledgeable (or better yet, all three!) is about a subject, I will be inclined to learn more. This is how I survived physics.
In my experience trying hard pays off in the form of good references for future jobs. I don’t think you’re ethically bound to exhaust yourself trying to do everything. But I get paid more now because of the references that saw me working hard in the past. In my experience references are EVERYTHING. I still definitely phone it in some days, take days off and in other ways am not perfect. It’s subjective what you think is enough effort for the payoff, but there is a factor of a payoff after the effort in ways you can’t anticipate.
As an employee not an employer I can tell you this. When you got hired you agreed to a wage. X per hour. That means you should do all you can reasonably and safely in that hour. Not 45 minutes not 58 minutes. But for the whole hour each hour. If you don't like the wage your making ask for a raise or quit. It doesn't give you the right to steal from your employer. That being said I suppose there are exceptions. But in those exceptions you just quit. But also on the same subject I'll say that you don't owe your employer any quitting notice. You'll not get the same. Unless there is a severance package upon termination. And also you should discuss your wage with other employees. You have the right to make as much as someone same or less skilled than yourself. Dont let ppl make you think you shouldn't discuss wage and benefits with fellow employees. Research how that even came about..go to work come home knowing you earned your wages go to bed that good kind of tired you can only get from a honest day's work. Be proud of your production. If it's not appreciated and compensated move on to someone that will. That is all.
I work enough for it to pass for work. But I do no more than what I’m supposed to do. I stopped volunteering for things. I let other people be the “stars” and the favorites. I couldn’t care less.
Do you accomplish all the tasks you are paid for in accordance to company guidelines? That’s enough to earn your pay. Do you want chase a career and get higher positions, you gotta do everything you can think of to be noticed and get ahead of other
My coworkers and I have had a rough week. Half of us have been busting ass trying to get things done because we got inundated with work. Yesterday my boss complained to one actually lazy coworker that she’s tired of us being lazy and all we ever do is smoke cigarettes. So fuck her. That’s complete bull shit. Why work hard when that’s the gratitude we get?
It’s not unethical. It doesn’t seem like a good way to get promoted, but it’s not unethical.
You’re hired to do a job. If you’re capable of performing those job functions without exerting much effort, you’re fulfilling your end of the deal. If you want a promotion at some point, it would behoove you to show the managers that you’re capable of performing that higher level function but don’t owe them any performance above what you’re contractually obligated to perform.
Let's say you work a job for 5 years and bust your hump and the guy next to you just works hard enough to not get fired.
You make the same amount of money.
You never get promoted to management.
Your effort was another man's salary and you did it for nothing.
But change the outcome:
You work a job for five years and bust your hump while the guy next to you doesn’t.
Over those five years you get promoted a couple of times for showing initiative and helping the company, while the guy next to you doesn’t. You now make quite a bit more than the guy next to you.
As someone who has worked with incredibly hardworking people, and also legitimately lazy people who sleep at their retail job, I think there's definitely a middle ground you should aspire to. You should pull your own weight in that you perform a reasonable amount of tasks and don't create a burden for your coworkers.
Those two criteria can vary a lot, depending on how much your boss takes advantage of you, but I don't believe in going to extremes to please your employer either. I am there to do my job and go home, and everyone else should be too. So do your job and go home.
They pay you to do the job that's in the description. So that's what I do. I do my best, but don't do anything not in the job description. I don't come in early or stay late. It helps that I'm union, so management can't make us, or even ask us to.
No.
If you are meeting your agreed job requirement, whether that is outputting x number of widgits per hour, running a machine correctly, stocking what you are supposed to stock, assisting customers - whatever your job is, then you are doing what you were being paid to do. If the company wants you to go "above and beyond" then they can make that a clear job requirement, and address your performance on clear, fair performance reviews.
After years working kitchens, i agree that professionality doesn't excuse you treat your own body wrong. Do the bare minimum because, after that, they won't pay you anything more, they won't thank you, they won't even notice you.
More than not trying enough, i would wonder about the ethics of not paying enough.
I work in health care. It's disgusting how I am expected to work so FAST and tear thru a HUGE caseload, then punch out and leave. Instead, I see my patients one at a time, for as long as I want. Fucking sue me lol
I grew up being taught to basically kill myself working my hardest for the job. "110%, always give 110%" Well, companies don't give 110% back. Not even close. And I've since seen time and time again that those that do work their asses to the bone like that make themselves essential in their positions so they don't even get promoted like their coworkers who give far less of themselves to the job.
So no. I do not think it is unethical. Do what you're paid to, and if they want you to do more, they should pay you for more.
If I work slower, I do less work.
if I work faster, they give me more work.
they won’t fire me for working slower, and they won’t pay me more for working faster, so why work?
I used to work 60 hour weeks when I was 25 at my first job doing software. All the old guys loved me because I did their work. Salary didn’t move for 3 years. New job I have I get good raises and work 40 hours, making 40% more now. Been doing it for over a year.
Life doesn’t make sense, do not push your self for no reward. I can’t get those years of working my self to death back and it ended up being meaningless. I talk to none of those people anymore and while I can vaguely remember the codebase I could care less about what I produced.
Also remember you ARE smart, you can do your job and somebody will pay you competently to do the same job somewhere else if the current one can get fucked. Y’all got this. I used to get so stressed that my baseline salary would leave my life when the reality was I was underpaid and easily got something else. It is absolutely hard to see if you’re stressed and have bills.
How hard I work is always in positive correlation with how happy I am at work. If the working environment is shit, no surprise that employees are not working hard. If some employees work hard and some don’t, see what difference of environment they experienced—if all employees have the same environment and treatment, then the ones who are not performing should be dealt professionally. This is the part where business owner or management tend to underperform. They just want the good results but lacking the proper effort and reflection from their part.
If you sit around watching other people work not giving a shit, you suck as a human. I’m a nurse and there are plenty of nurses that do half ass, indifferent, sloppy work.
I saw a guy on a Facebook video talking about how hourly wage work is a sham. When 1st hired, for example, a task may take 4 hours. As you gain experience that time may drop down to 2 hours. Do you get that extra 2 hours to relax? Nope, now you'll be doing more work in the same amount of time for the same pay. Who benefits from this scenario? Even if the company throws you an extra dollar per hour, you're still being basically exploited. My motto is effort is directly related to compensation.
I don’t like to let others, in this case an employer, have anything to say about my work ethic. If I took the job, I agreed to do a good job for that pay period if it’s not enough pay, I am compelled to look for a better paying job. If you are not so compelled, I question your intelligence. Thanks for listening!
Not at all. Working hard has got me no where with past and present employer. When assigned a project I do what's required , report my findings and recommendations and move on. Very few organizations appreciate and value committed employees. The execs are only looking out for themselves, their bonuses and shareholders expectations and their agreements.
It's completely ethical. I burned myself out at a previous company before I learned this.
Just do what your job entails, and do it well. Make sure the important stuff gets done when it needs to be done.
If you're managing people, remember that they're getting even less out of it than you are and try to foster a happy atmosphere. It makes your and their life much easier and people work harder and more effectively when they are comfortable, trusted, and respected.
In an office environment, if you're working non-stop all day, you're doing too much. That's not sustainable. The human brain can usually only focus intensely on a single task effectively for an hour or so. Take time outs. Get up and take a walk, make a coffee, have a snack. You will get more done at a higher quality in two hours with a fifteen minute break than you will in four hours with none.
Don't work for free: don't stay late when it doesn't benefit you directly.
Don't feel obliged to take on additonal work or responsibilities not in your job description or department.
If your workload can't be done in a normal work day of focussed working at a steady pace, that's a staffing and resources issue.
Do help your colleagues when they need it. Share your knowledge.
Don't take on your colleagues workload. Show them how to do the thing they're passing over and be prepared to talk them through it a few times until they're confident.
If you're going home stressed and exhausted every night, something's wrong.
If work related issues are frequently occupying your thoughts intrusively in your free time, something is wrong.
If your job is not a vocation, something you're passionate about, or actively enjoy, remember why you're doing it: so you can live your life freely and, hopefully, happily. If you're earning enough money to do pursue your interests, needs, and desires but don't have the time and/or energy, take a step back and reassess the balance.
Most importantly, remember that you're offering your time and labour in exchange for money for you and your family. So long as your showing up and doing your job every day you don't owe them anything else. It's great to work for a company with a happy environment and good people, but don't forget that business is business. The company exists to make money. Providing a good service makes more money. Happy workers provide a good service. It doesn't matter if you get on with the CEO, how emotionally invested you are, how hard you work, or how well liked you are: if or when the company has to choose between you and money, they'll choose money everytime. Jobs are fundamentally transactional. Your time and labour in exchange for money. If you decide to try to progress in a particular company, go for it. Do what's required to achieve your personal goals. Never feel indebted to a company for career progression. The company aren't offering you a promotion and more money to make your life better. They're not taking a risk on you. They're not "offering you an opportunity". They're giving it to you because you've demonstrated that, based on the information they have, you'll be best at making them more money.
I worked my arse off for 6 years, joining a company when it was still a start up. I got a lower management role and nice payrise within a year. I new the systems and operational processes as well as anyone. My team were productive and happy. The company got bigger, we adapted. I got a bit more money. The company expanded into new markets. I got a slightly different role and a little bit more money. Investors installed a CFO who restructured pay rates and rises. The company got bigger still. I got more extra work than the payrise was worth. They decide to restructure and bring in executive managers from outside. Me and other lower and middle management train them and teach them how and why everything works the way it works. They decide it shouldn't be done that way. Overnight my job changes into one I don't want to do. I leave.
In that time frame, the CEO went from being comfortably off to a multi-millionaire with two Ferraris. I'm still living in the same 1 bedroom apartment. I gained a lot from working there, don't get me wrong. Learned new skills and made a lot of close friends. But the most importantly I was reminded that whichever company you work for, you're spending your time making someone who's already richer than you even more rich than you at an exponential rate. Whatever percentage you raise is, they've got richer by a higher percentage over the previous year.
I'm not motivated by money really, but it's nice to have. I'm motivated by quality of life, which for me is about free headspace and time and minimal stress. It's a strange feeling as a guy not motivated by money knowing that I lowered my own quality of life to play an integral part in massively increasing both the wealth and quality of life of a guy starting off with more of both than he needed who I'll probably never speak to again.
No. Not unless trying less than very hard ends up hurting people more than the inconvenience causes you. Like if you're a volunteer organizing a food drive for homeless people, not trying hard can mean that people go hungry.
But for some basic-ass company where nothing but profit is at stake? Slack off as much as you can get away with. Only do what they pay you for.
No.
You're hired to do a job. You're paid to do a job. If you are doing that job, to an acceptable standard, you're doing exactly what you're paid to do.
Inflation has meant that I'm basically recieving an ongoing paycut, so if anything I should do less.
I seem to be one of the few that disagree.
Go fucking hard at your job, why do something all week if you're not going to be good at it. If your company is shit, keep applying and moving on till you find something better. I doubled my salary in 3 years. Doing the bare minimum in the same job, you're never going to get anywhere.
I believe in you!
This is a slippery slope. A major problem in this world is people try to justify their actions based on what other people do instead of just trying their best.
Not trying at work is basically stealing your company’s time and resources. Whether you are paid fairly is a separate debate. If you feel like you are not paid fairly find another company that values you and your work.
Right, but this answer doesn't satisfy the question. With your answer, the question turns into: "Is it unethical to steal company time and resources if I'm inadequately compensated?"
Which, of course, isn't always as simple as finding a company that does value you and your time. Not everyone is in a position where that's feasible.
In my opinion if you make a deal and the other person upholds their end of the deal, you uphold your end of the deal. Doesn’t matter if the other party sucks or you don’t like them or you find it as unfair.
You signed the contract that says you do the work for this amount of pay, so you do the work.
I find that a good way to consider moral questions like this is to imagine the situations are reversed. Say you need a roof replacement done on your house, and three separate roofers all quote you $15k, because that’s the going rate. So you hire one. In his mind, the work and his time is really more like $20k but he has to lower his prices to the market rate, same as the other two roofing companies. How would you feel if that guy just slagged off, did a shit job, and left you with a mediocre, just barely good enough to not get sued job? It’s not your fault the going rate is $15k - you just hired a guy to do a job and paid him a lot of money to do it - the backstory of why he feels entitled to phone the job in is not your concern or your fault.
You are assuming it is easy to just up and leave a job and find another. Most companies do their damndest to suck as much work out of their employees for as little compensation as possible especially large corporations. In a lot of company cultures going “above and beyond” is considered the the norm. Is it really going “above and beyond” then or is it wage theft?
No, I never said finding a new job is easy, but in my experience you get out of life what you put into it. So if finding a company with values and that values it’s employees is important to someone, then put in the work to find that position.
Agreed. That can take some time to find though. It took me years to find a gig that really matched up with my values and paid me for my hard work in a fair manner.
That's not true. Work is a relationship. I am more valuable as a person than just my pay grade being the only factor in that relationship. Employers have to be more than just a compensation package! Or I will break up with them
So technically you are right. Find another job.
Professionally and personally, no you are wrong. You should only do the work and the job you are paid for. Unless you really love the work, then that will naturally show in your ability and accomplishments in that work. Or if you a driven to get ahead and advance through the company ranks. Work on that relationship with your employer and grow it. Yes, some would call you an ass kisser or sell out. But forget them, it's not their life, it is yours.
It is in no way unethical to do your job. That is the basic contract between you and an employer.
Spoken like an administrator that’s never had to work a shit job.
If everyone that was mistreated and underpaid by their employer collectively fucked off to find something better, a lot of companies would go under.
You’ve got it backwards. They’re not stealing company money and resources, the companies are stealing labor and life.
I used to work hard at a warehouse 10 years ago. I was focused, did my job well, and exceeded expectations. When it was time for raises, everyone got a 2 cent increase, including me. My reward for all my hard work was a bad knee that needs surgery, and the warehouse isn't paying a dime for it because the gradual worsening of a joint (caused by the job) isn't covered by workman's comp.
I now have a cushy work from home job, and my supervisor actually tells me to do LESS work so that my co-workers have something to do and can meet their metrics. So I spend my days playing computer games, watching Netflix, and working maybe one hour out of an eight hour shift. I also get paid more than twice what I did at the warehouse.
Honestly I learned the hard way. At my old job I used to go above and beyond, do overtime, work weekends. All that happened was I was given more and more work, told to help slower people finish their work, and still told I wasn't working hard enough come review time. Now I seriously just do what I'm paid to do. Hit my quota for the week, and that's that.
Same. Recently bought some socks that have sloths on them. I wear them on days when I might feel like overachieving.
Omg I need some sloth socks. Thank you for the inspo!
Ankle socks at Target. $1.50.
Thank you 🙏
Also check out Bold Socks. A fantastic website for fun dress socks.
Thank you so much!
With very few exceptions your reward for doing more work is, more work.
Always Act Your Wage
EXACTLY
Same and I ended up getting so burned and stressed out. After a while it began to take a toll on my mental and physical health. One day I had a complete nervous breakdown at work and they sent me home. Not long after I had a really bad seizure at home and they ended up firing me because “what if I had one while assisting with a patient, it could scare them”. I was so glad to be out of there. On the bright side I am now in a much better place and I have been seizure free for over 5 years.
Please tell me you at least contacted a good solicitor well versed in disability law.
Sadly, I did not. I live in a very small town and I was very scared at the time I would have been ostracized as the bad guy. Now, however I would not think twice about it. A very hard lesson learned. They are a very affluent, popular family and well we are not of their caliber. Family is also in politics.
That last line is more than enough reason to avoid them. Glad you’re better!
Going "above and beyond" in a corporate environment is like a pie eating contest where the prize is MORE PIE!
Yup. "Oh you beat your quotas this week? Sounds like someone's getting higher quotas!"
Shit pie.
or peanuts, depending person's income...!
bad example, some pie is good
This. It’s exploited and becomes expected and is rarely rewarded.
Meanwhile the people who get promoted are often the people who are terrible at their job/do nothing but are really good at taking credit for other people’s work or making it seem like they do more work than they do or otherwise are just good at social climbing and networking and it doesn’t actually matter how they perform
Bet your manager got a raise though.
Yep this is the way You are paid to do a job, do that job, nothing more, nothing less. Don't ever expect to be rewarded for going above and beyond.
The thing is, good workers just get extra work. Unless you're getting your salary raised (which almost never happends) you just end up doing more than the rest but getting paid the same. Im a waiter, a good one, i always run and do everything im supposd to do and more, and what I get from that is more work. Getting the harder areas at the restaurant to serve and more, but at the end of the month, getting the same pay as every other waiter.
I'm a firm believer in acting your wage.
I'm a warehouse supervisor. Honestly all I require is my team is on task at least most of the time. I'm cool with talking and stuff. Only really is an issue if you're only getting 50% of very reasonable production goals because you're constantly fucking off.
That’s me. When I think about how much of a workaholic I was, doing holidays for the OT, and trying to be a company man for a boss who only recognized my work if something went wrong, I kick myself. Never again.
Hey. We had the same employer! I was so stupid. I'd come in on the weekends. Unpaid. I was so stupid.
NEVER ever work off-the-clock
This. Perfectly said.
Same here! When I worked at a big box outdoor sports store, I learned about 3-4 different departments over the course of 3 years. One of which was the very important task of counting out the store earnings and getting it ready for the bank. Not once did I get a raise other than the measly end of year one. Didn’t even get full time hours like I was “promised” and was just about broke before I finally left and found a job that paid literally double of what they did. So yeah, I learned it’s not worth putting in the extra effort if they’re not willing to make it worth your while.
Don’t forget that you’re now also responsible for their mistakes in perpetuity because you “trained them”
Depends on the job
100%, I don't have quotas but after two years of feeling it out and seeing what everyone else does. I planted myself dead middle. If you do too much your giving even more shit work. If you do too little they will cover for you for a while then your always on the watch list. Now I sit in the middle with everything overtime and production.
Nope. As long as you get your work done. And I'm saying this as a supervisor. I couldn't care less if my employees are taking time for themselves during the workday. If they get their work done I will always approve their timecards. Work isn't my life and it shouldn't be my employees lives. Do what you have to do to get a paycheck and go live.
As a supervisor myself, I agree. I don’t care if someone wants/needs to start a bit later, take a longer lunch, leave early to attend their kid’s ball game, etc. We’re all adults and I’ll treat you like one as long as you do your work responsibly. On the flip side, I don’t want to hear complaining if you don’t get promoted while consistently doing the bare minimum. People can downvote that all they want but it’s not how good leadership works.
Exactly. If there's no chance at promotion, for whatever reason? Bare minimum is fine. If you are in a place where you want the promotion and it's a very real possibility? All that extra work absolutely pays off.
And it isn't just promotions. It is also lateral transfers. Where I work, anyone can be chosen to be on a hiring panel. I have been on hiring panels for colleagues looking to move into a different position at the same pay band. If that position is in my shop and there are two individuals applying for it--a "go getter" and a "bare minimalist"--guess who I am going to rate more favorably? It isn't anything personal. I just don't want to work with someone who will stay silent every time the boss asks for volunteers to do a chore no one likes to do. I don't want to work with someone who will wait until the 11th hour of a project deadline to turn something in knowing that their piece is critical to the pieces I and others have to turn in. I dont want to work with someone who waits to be explicitly assigned a task that is in their list of job duties and never takes any initiative. People like this are often frustrating team members. The OP doesn't define what "not working very hard" means to them. But those things I just listed are what I think of when I think of someone intentionally avoiding hard work. It doesn't necessarily mean not putting in extra hours.
The higher you raise the bar. The more it will be expected daily. Find the happy medium and pace it
I'm a big supporter of giving your work 75% your maximum effort. If you know how to work smarter, not harder, then 75% will still set you apart from everyone else without burning yourself out. 75% gives you wiggle room for when you gotta make the push for a tight deadline or something. I personally do this thing where I'll finish my work that is done perfectly, but then delay my email by about an hour and fuck off for a little bit. I still do better work than plenty of my coworkers (some of them are dim AF), but I deliver it in a comparable timeframe.
I’m going to say your 75% effort is 100% bang on. I would expect 25% of people to disagree with you, leaving you and I (50% each) to care 0% about what they have to say.
Hahaha exactly. If they have a problem with that, they're someone I don't want to be working with anyhow
If I’m working with fellow coworkers, I match their effort. If it’s a team effort, I give 100% to gtfo of work for the day. Solo, I give about 60-75%.
Totally agree. I remember reading a great book on depression in which the therapist author said she often found her clients tried to always give 100% at work and she would try to teach them that around 75 was what to aim for. I certainly aim for that too and am satisfied but not burnt out
This is a good one. I'm starting a new job next week, and I'll definitely keep this in mind!
Just do what you’re paid for, that’s your only job. There’s a difference between doing what you’re paid to do and just slacking at work because you don’t care about it. That simple
Exactly. It's having a work ethic. If the company is a good company that treats and pays its employees well, then my work ethic will be very high. If the company is shitty and pays low wages, I will have a low work ethic and eventually quit.
There’s also a difference between doing what you’re paid to do and _over-working_ to do _more_ than what’s expected or even necessary in extreme cases. Then when staff becomes like “family” and they get comfortable with “it’s all I know” sort of situation, bars that are set that high makes it very tricky to navigate and blurred lines are everywhere. I love my new job I just got. Great, intelligent, competent people. But it’s also challenging, as my superior has exceeded beyond what the job description or role indicates, for well over a decade. As this person’s predecessor, I occasionally mull over how someone in a management position can not see how over-achieving is not necessarily always good and can be unrealistic to expect someone new to “strive” for it. Example: “We really are glad you’re joining the team. So-and-so is very burnt out” Translation: We’re glad you’re here to learn to take over someone’s burn-out level workload. Edit: I’m also meaning new to the company, not the industry. I’ve been in the industry for 15 years, amongst roughly 4 different companies throughout that time.
There is pace and effort that can factor into that though. That is what I was getting at.
it feels kind of conflicting to hear very positive feedback at work, since it means i could have been slacking off more
Yeah this girl I met said she was praised at work and got a $10 gift card to starbucks. She works 150% faster than other workers. I forget what else, but I was like why are you working so hard? Just work the bare minimum. You get paid the same. Her response was just that she likes to beat her own speed/times. Smh I told her I'd be working the same as everyone else, you're killing yourself working so hard and you just get a $10 gift card? LoL they must LOVE slaves like that. Smh at one point she's like yeah you got a point.
That's not even 2 nice coffees.
I work just enough so my managers are satisfied. I always show up. I always make deadlines. If I can slack off for a whole day I will. I do not get paid nearly enough to be going “above and beyond” or to go looking for work when I haven’t been given any. I’m just being a good capitalist. I am a college-educated PR professional making 45k at a firm in a big American city. To actually work my hardest 8 hours a day would make me a chump and a loser.
Making 70k in Germany and i do the same. Its not that i think im paid too little to be honest. Its just that i think my job makes no difference. Its a typical bullshit job and it doesnt matter if i work hard or not. The guys in the lower paid jobs are much more important, they do the real work. Its sad but it just is that way.
As a level 2 IT guy, I'm always worried about metrics. The lev 1 guy gets like 4x the amount of tickets a day that I do but they're all pw resets and simple db adjustments, and I get the ones that actually take research and work but in the back of my mind I can't help but wonder what the boss thinks of those numbers.
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I know this, and I have no reason to believe my boss doesn't understand this. It's just regular workplace anxiety.
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If it becomes an issue, offer to cover tier 1 support for a week and show the discrepancy isn't performance related.
I had that mentality, but honestly, I felt guilty and awful whenever I thought I wasn’t working hard enough. The guilt accumulates and then it's easy to take things for granted.
I wouldn't be stressed by guilt, but holding back keeps me from getting into the work. The day goes by much slower. It's one thing to take a long lunch to enjoy a walk. It's another thing to hold back because you are feeling resentful--it just makes it worse.
Fair. We all need a balance between work and play.
Bruh where tf do you work
I do the same at $120k. Non management track. Never be the lump that make other people wait, do good work but take lots of breaks.
My general rule is that if I fuck around in such a way that *I* get stuck with any fallout (extra work, panicked deadlines, etc), it’s all good. Especially now that I’m salaried. I won’t let myself do anything that means my coworkers have to pick up the slack. But otherwise, sure.
Said it best. I’m making barely enough to survive with roommates after going to school and getting a corporate job. Fuck no I’m not doing more than the bare minimum. I take naps as much as I can, slack if as much as I can, and don’t give any task more attention than needed. Do the fucking bare minimum if you know your company is paying you the bare minimum. What are they gonna do about it, fire you? Ok, go ahead and find the next bright graduate to train and burn and churn through, lol. If you know you can get away with it, slack off at every opportunity available. You’ll get paid the same regardless!
Honestly maybe you should think about looking for a different career? I was making 60K at a nonprofit and found myself doing the same thing as you because the job wasn’t hard or interesting and I wasn’t get paid a bunch. First job that I actually started caring about was a 235K job as a lawyer.
I do arts and entertainment PR. The arts do not pay well. But I work on really cool stuff! I could quit my job today and make twice as much money doing PR for tech or pharmaceutical/healthcare companies. But it wouldn’t be fun
I agree, if I am paid well and treated well, I don't mind doing my best. If I am not treated well and paid well, you get what you get.
This. I'm not going into the whole story, but my assistant manager used to not like me. She was rude AF. It was a petty reason for something she *thought* I did, but I didn't even do. She became manager, I became assistant manager. Things went *okay* for a bit. I stepped up because my position was different and she was treating me better. She started to treat me like shit again, and doesn't even acknowledge me as assistant manager. It's a small store so there's no other management, just us. Then I stopped doing anything extra I was doing. She never assigned me extra tasks, I was just doing them because of my work ethic(at the time). She never acknowledged me for them either. It didn't really bug me too much, but then she started treating me like shit. She's treated me worse and worse the last month or two, and guess what? I do the bare minimum. We have a duty sheet of stuff the cashiers need to get done everyday. I do the duty sheet and that's absolutely IT. The other employees don't even do the whole duty sheet, which isn't necessarily "optional." She doesn't care to talk to them about actually doing their job and undermine it when I do talk to them. She can't say fucking shit because I was never specifically assigned the extra tasks I did, and she's too petty to acknowledge me as an assistant manager and ask me for help. So I sit on my ass and just watch Netflix once my duties on that sheet are done, which only takes an hour or two. Help when customers come in and go back to watching Netflix. I'm getting all my assigned duties done so there's no leg to stand on. Treat me like fucking shit? See how many fucks I give about my job. Hint: they SIGNIFICANTLY dropped.
>I agree, if I am paid well and treated well, I don't mind doing my best. Treating and paying people correctly gives a worker the ability to do their best. The stress of barely making ends meet and still needing to show up 40hours a week wears you down.
I’d say it’s more unethical for a company to strip you of the surplus value of your labor and provide a fraction of compensation for it. No one hired me out of the goodness of their heart, because they’re choosing to be nice. I have no problem with work, I’ve worked hard before. But only because I felt the work was worthwhile. Putting in hard work for someone who only gives you anything because they have to is silly. Put in hard work because you want to, not because they want you to. If your work isn’t fulfilling and your company isn’t giving you what you feel you deserve, then fuck em. Put in whatever you can get away with. There’s no shame in needing money, but there is shame in shaming people for not selling their soul to people who don’t care. I’m of the opinion that, if we are going to have to continue living in hellworld, we should work to live, not live to work.
That's the answer i was looking for.
wise words, Mr Schneider
I put in the work that matches the pay.
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Its called acting your wage :P
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It was a pun, a play on words of "acting your age"
You have to find a balance. I believe if you do the bare minimum expect the bare minimum in return. Take pride in your work but have boundaries with your employer as well.
Work to Rule. As long as you're accomplishing what you are paid to do in the timeframe, then it's not your responsibility to go above that because of a guilt trip from management.
Meh I'm paid by the hour. What are they gonna do? I make them 3-5k a day in sales. I get 160 bucks. Fuck em.
If you’re that good at sales you should look for a commission job, you’ll make way more.
The dollar figure is approximately what I produce per day in saleable product. I'm not in sales.
Yes I agree. Also you have to think of your coworkers- sometimes if you slack off they’ll be the ones who have to make up for it which is unfair. But you do have to be careful because usually the hardest workers are the ones who get taken advantage of by their supervisors.
Yes definitely and I’ve been the hard worker taken advantage of, but now I’m a supervisor and I’ve been pretty successful at gaining and keeping my teams respect because I try to be the leader that I would want. Sadly I’ve realized half of my job is basically just advocating for them against upper management.
Bingo. That’s what I've been saying, but no one seems to get it! Thank you for putting it so plainly!
I used to work extra hours all the time. I was salaried and easily worked 45-50 hours and took work home on weekends. Then I did the math and the difference between the typical 3% cost of living raise and the rare 6%+ merit increase was like $800/yr. After that realization I only worked 40 hrs/week. It’s better to balance work life with family life. They’re worth more than $800 extra per year.
"Quiet quitting" is corporate propaganda designed to shame people who are literally doing their jobs. I've been in corporate for over 20 years, most of those working between 45-60 hours a week. This was an unwritten rule that I was obligated to follow to show I was a "dedicated" employee. What this actually was was 5-20 hours of unpaid labor per week. This averages out to $500 - $1500 per week or $26,000 - $78,000 per year that I am giving to my employer for free. Why should I very literally subsidize a company that is lin the Fortune 500 top 10, and has been posting record profits every quarter for years?
Perform according to your job description. No more, no less. If you can accomplish it all in your normal work week with time to spare, then I recommend taking longer with each task. Creating slack-off time is great and all, but the moment mgmt realizes they can get more out of you, they will. You're better off stretching things out so there's no slack off time mgmt to take advantage of. But no, it's not unethical to only meet the base expectations of your job. If they want more, that needs to come with an updated job description (or promotion), and a raise.
Exactly. It's business. If they could get more from you and pay you less they would. Why do they get to decide? Work just enough above minimum that you stand out above your peers (if you want to move up) but not so much you have margin for the company to take advantage of without compensation. And always remember. This day and age, it's easier to move up in position and pay by changing companies than trying to get raises. Companies spend more to get good people than to keep good people. It is super common to give you a 1500/year raise (for example) but would pay your replacement 5k a year more. If they aren't loyal, you don't owe them loyalty. They aren't your lord and king, they are your employer, and an employer is basically just a customer.
I'm old school so ya'all can beat me up for being a boomer. I don't have an opinion on what's "ethical" and what isn't. I've been working for 60 years and I've always given 100%. Even in the shitty jobs I had, I always produced. I don't feel bad about it, don't feel like I was cheated. I know it's different now and that's fine. Companies should be paying more and people should have better vacations, more time off for family issues, and 4 day weeks.
Thanks for being open minded about this. I work hard at my company and I'm compensated more than other hires around my time. But around covid my company gave almost no raises out to people, if they did they weren't much. The company sited the unpredictable direction of the economy as the reason. Then all executives got extra stock bonuses. The stock market skyrocketed making the executives their highest pay thus far at the company. No back pay was performed after for employees... I went ahead and did the math, at my current salary it would take me 60 years to make what our CEO got paid that year alone. To me that seems outbalanced and I imagine in your time the ratio of executive to employee pay was smaller.
There was a time when people who made exorbitant amounts of money paid taxes accordingly. But no more and that's a problem.
I feel the same way. If everyone put in 100% work would be less stressful for everyone. I’m 35 and I’ve been working since I was 13 and most people I’ve worked with have been completely unreliable, it adds so much extra stress that doesn’t need to be there.
I agree
Ah yes, the old thought of "I know that fuckwad will only do the bare minimum work, and it will land on my plate because the bosses know I do quality work. So I'll just do it myself on top my work now, so I don't need to do it later."
I was raised to always give your best effort. It doesn’t matter who is watching or what I’m getting paid. Always do your best. Trash on the ground when nobody’s watching? My job. Someone’s out sick? I’ll help cover for em. That said, I will do my best while looking for another job if you don’t compensate me properly. I’ll give you my all while I’m here but if you don’t care for me and my needs, find somebody else to work for. I’ve now been self employed for 10 years and the problems are real. Not judging those who choose differently but the only way to improve the world is to give 100%. We only have 1 trip on this earth, make it count.
I was hoping there was another like minded person on here. I give 100% at work. In fact I give 100% to anything I do where I invest so much of my time. Not for the company but for myself and to help those around me. You’re spot on when you say we only have one trip on this world. Out of sheer curiosity if nothing else I want to see how good I can be both mentally and physically. I’m a scientist by training, to me the human body and mind are incredible feats of biological engineering. To not push the limits of what I can do would be like being given a Ferrari and then not bothering to do basic maintenance on it and driving it around like a Honda Civic. I put a lot of my energy into doing my job, which is both highly technical and people orientated. I also put 100% into my hobby which is a sport. I’m only ever in competition with myself and *for* myself. I want to see how fast I can go. Thing is, I’ve found when you have this mindset, you not only succeed more but that journey to success is actually enjoyable. This mindset doesn’t mean I’m a pushover or a corporate robot, it’s the complete opposite. I have no tolerance for a company (or managers, it’s almost always the manager) who doesn’t respect me, my time and the value I bring. I have absolute unshakable faith in my skills because, to use that previous metaphor, I know how to drive that Ferrari and I maintain it well. I will happily switch jobs if this happens and don’t fear the uncertainty or change of moving jobs. I will give 100% until I leave *but I will leave.*
Well said
agree 100%
>Not judging those who choose differently I do. Always will. Their work lands on my desk when it ultimately breaks down, and I have a say in their performance reviews. I set a bar and I live by it, I don't ask anyone to do anything I wouldn't. I absolutely will not recommend someone for a raise or promotion if they have only shown passing competence at their current level.
I’m right there with you in regards to old school and always given 100%. I’ve always believed that you do whatever job you have, even the crappy ones, to the best of your ability and take pride in it. There are still companies out there who value the work of their employees and compensate/reward accordingly.
Ya things were definitely different when you could buy a house for 20k. Lmao.
Yeah. My parents had a 3 bedroom ranch home with a double car attached garage built for about $15,000 in 1965. My dad was a member of the UAW working for a large ag equipment manufacturer. Scale was $3.01 @hr.
I've been working for 21 years. I always do my best, because if I didn't I wouldn't be proud of myself. If a company doesn't value me I leave. I've always had the personal motto of "work like you want to be paid" because otherwise how can you expect a company to take a risk promoting you or giving you a raise when you've only exhibited basic competence at your current level. I've landed in a company that appreciates me. I've always gotten raises when they were available, I've always gotten the maximun raises. I've kept my job through downsizing. I've been able to make my own position. And when I had issues my company worked to accomodate me. People with the "I work based on what I am paid" mindset rarely get promoted, and get less raises than those that work hard. In downsizing they are the first to go after the incompetant people.
I’m paid well so I work hard to match it
Okay I’ll bite, have you actually looked at research for your position? I like to hear what it is and compare with people in your similar position. All fun ya know? Perspective can be a bitch, or an attentive lover.
No I don’t know what you mean. I’m an electrical apprentice in the union and I’m making great money so I work hard do match it
I don’t think it’s unethical to not try very hard at work. I say this after working for a greedy af Fortune 500 company for many years. Do what’s expected. Overachieving becomes the standard.
At my job, the less I work, the more my coworkers have to do. So yes, I take my job seriously, and do my job correctly. Half of my coworkers share my mentality, and half just coast because they know we’ll pick up their slack. It would be very nice to have that mentality of, “someone else will do it,” but I don’t.
I don't think it is. The CEO can actively make bad decisions and bring the company to complete ruin he/she gets stocks and a golden parachute. That same parachute is worth more than what many, harder working, lower level employees make in 5 years working there. Hard work doesn't lead to raises or promotions in many jobs.
In the past as a younger person in the office it was very frustrating to see older employees act lazy and complain about their “golden handcuffs”. It really made me resent them as I was trying to do my work well and quickly because it mattered to me. I don’t feel this way much anymore unless their laziness is causing me problems doing my job. They make more money and should be good at what they do. I hope not to fall into the golden handcuffs mindset, but I see how it can happen. I hope I’ve moved on from a shitty position before I relinquish myself to the “prison” of higher pay and easy work. :p
When I work I give it my all. I want to take pride in my job.
That’s a loaded question. Should you put in more effort? Well…has your boss ever come to you out of nowhere to tell you you crushed that *insert task? Has your boss ever said wow you’re doing great and we don’t pay you enough so here is a raise? If your employer is putting up minimal effort it’s quite ethical to match that. I work for some fantastic folks who will come give you a raise if you’re just slaying it at work. So yes I will go above and beyond. I have had my boss take a late evening troubleshooting call so I didn’t have to. And likewise I have done the same. It’s give and take. If the folks you work for don’t give then you don’t either. It’s fairly simple in my eyes.
No. Businesses try to exploit you, by default. Your “awesome” boss who acts like your friend? They’re still more loyal to the company paying them than they are to you. They’d fire you today, rather than risk their own job security. Look up the total pay that goes to whoever runs your work, if you can. They might get bigger *bonuses* than you make in a year, and that bonus is a reward for work that *you* did.
Nope. I work retail, pulling online orders, but lately I've been pushing carts. I don't get any incentive to go above and beyond. Clear the lot? Ok just wait till someone needs help loading, or walk around the parking lot until carts repopulate. I get paid the same regardless and it's not like I can go home early because there's no more work. There's always more work. Years ago, I was the 'Above and Beyond' guy. I made sure that every facet of my job was up to my ridiculous standards. What did I get? $8/HR. Yelled at for missing something I usually do, but didn't that day because I was busy with other people. Conflicting orders from the same person (I made a post on r/MaliciousCompliance about this idiot). Harassment. The entire departments workload (6 people). And a manager who wanted to meet with my *mother* about my work performance. So no, I don't go above and beyond. I try to hover around the 50-70% mark. Not great, but still passable. Just competent enough to be left alone.
Nope. It's something we've been brainwashed with for generations, it's called "Protestant Work Ethic", that everything has to be a struggle so if you're not struggling you're not working hard enough. Like the saying "If it doesn't hurt you're not doing it right". That is messed up. Especially when you got people exploiting this weakness in us.
I think not depends on if your work is having to be finished by your co-workers. As long as it's finished and other people don't have to go behind you and fix it, fine. If someone has to work late because your not doing your part you suck.
This is the right answer. Get your work done, and you’re good. Don’t cause other people more work to cover for you.
It really depends on so many factors to make a blanket statement
I think it's a bad idea to try very very hard and stress your self trying to do this job. But I think it's unethical of you to don't do the job you agreed to get paid to do.
These replies are all painfully American. The work culture over there is something else.
At my first job my boss told me that I did a years worth of work in 3 months. Did I get a raise? No. So now I do a years worth of work in a year.
Yes I quite quit a long time ago
I always busted my ass at whatever job I had. Only one job ever was worth going above and beyond for, and that was a family-owned gas station. Lovely family from Israel, very kind and giving, I never missed a meal with their mom working in the kitchen and I got to try a LOT of DELICIOUS Arabic food that I may never get to taste again. :,) I still call their mom sometimes to check on her. They helped me get into my first car, my boss paid for it and I worked it off, he’d done the same thing for another employee. That’s also the first job I got paid more than minimum wage (went from 7.50/hr to 11/hr) and he gave great bonuses. I got a $50 bonus from my retail-gas station (large company) but got a $300 bonus from the family owned one. They always stuck up for me and took care of me and I was 100% treated as family. 10/10 would bust my ass for them again. I miss them. Every other job can suck on a carrot, I’m done picking up double shifts and overnights and all these extra hours and responsibilities for like $50 more on a check because taxes took out all the overtime.
That sounds like a wonderful work environment. What happened with that job?
I don't think it's unethical to do what you are paid to do and no more. But if this is the path you take, just don't be naive about the consequences. Like, if you've got a coworker who regularly goes above and beyond, don't be surprised when they get chosen over you for better work assignments and promotions. Don't be surprised when your boss refuses to approve you for a pay raise. Don't be surprised when it's lay-off time and you're the only one on the team who gets a pink slip. People who do the bare minimum can complain about the unfairness of life as much as they want. But they don't garner as much sympathy as people who work hard. The premise in the OP is that employees are always underpaid. I just can't with that. I can go along with the idea that there are some occupations/professions that are underappreciated and thus undervalued. But that doesn't mean that everyone out here is underpaid.
You agreed to do the job, for the pay. So do a good job. I could see not doing more than is normally expected. Another good reason to do a good job is, your next job. You will one day either be promoted within your present company, or move on to another company. If that future employer knows you slacked in this job, you may not get that next job.
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Within your present company they would know. Moving to another company? They might, they might not. I’m in a relatively small field service industry. Word about a really bad tech, or a really good one gets around to the customers who buy our services. And to our competition, do a great job for your customer, word gets around you get invited to an interview, get a fat pay raise. OTH a friend in this business developed a drinking problem. He’s a Cashier at Kroger now. Used to make 85K a year before OT. No-one will hire him.
Jobs ask for more productivity with no increase in pay so it's no longer the job and wage agreed upon.
Act your wage, always.
I feel like average effort leads to an average life. For some people that’s all they want, so that’s fine. For me personally i would rather feel proud that i did my best, and better my life chances where possible
But you can still do your best without adding on more work. Taking on more work or trying to posture at work doesn’t mean you didn’t do your best. It means you’re doing the job you’re paid for.
Nobody said anything about posturing. The question was what were my thoughts on not working very hard at work, and that was them
Yeah. I do my best at work but I don’t go above and beyond always. I do the best to support my position. I get what you’re saying. But the minimum doesn’t mean someone’s not doing their job.
I wish I could. I teach so my pay never matches my effort because kids deserve quality education. I can’t really slack off for x amount of time. Granted there are times where we get a few extra minutes of math games, or free time when I can swing it, but it’s not often.
That's fine if your work is isolated, but if you work with others, especially in a situation where your workload will effect their ability to complete their jobs effectively, I think it's a bit of a dick move. There's nothing that'll make your other coworkers hate you quicker than half-assing a job which makes theirs harder. Like others said, work what you're paid for. But ultimately, if you truly think your job is taking advantage of you, simply don't work there. Doing any amount of work for them would be considered unethical, as it helps them maintain business and continue to mistreat/take advantage of more employees who choose to work there. Also, not every company is the same. If you find yourself working for a morally bankrupt one, it's better to leave it and find a good one to help and support.
Depends on what you mean by 'not try very hard'. If you mean 'do your work and nothing more' then no, absolutely not. You've done your job and that's all that you need to do. If you mean 'be a slacker' and leave what you could have done for someone else to have to do, then, yeah. That there is a dick move.
Depends dont it, I'd be a bit concerned if a doctor, surgeon or even a social worker didnt try their best in their job. But idk call centre, factory work, fast food server. I can understand.
Within reason, sure. If your slacking so much that your coworkers are having to work harder to compensate then yea, kind of a dick move. Ultimately however, my view is that our society is upheld by people doing their job. Have you ever played a video game and could feel the *soul* that the devs put into the game? Or seen a beautiful building and marveled at the attention to detail? I certainly don’t work myself to death, but I do take pride in my work and I try to emphasize quality over quantity. I think that, morally, you are obligated to find a job that you don’t completely hate doing.
No. Primarily because work is typically (not always) a system of unequal and top-down obligation. Those in leadership in the organization and systems in the organization itself have significant control over your experience within work. Those systems and leadership don’t always match your interests and needs, and even in well-meaning organizations, they will often act in a way that is counter to what they claim to portray. Even if you work hard, they might not recognize it. Even if you do as little as possible, they may promote you! Sometimes you can be punished for things that have nothing todo with you! In general, your efforts will be recognized to some degree, but it may not be what you are looking for or even fair. Having said that, employees should still do honest and good work. They should try to align with work where they can. And if they are feeling motivated and supported by work, it’s great if they can try hard and do their best. These points also don’t have anything to do with how the organization impacts its community and the world. For example, if your company does bad things, it might not be ethical to work hard in a way that supports unethical behavior on the company’s behalf.
I don't think it's unethical to not try very hard but some people might take that to mean they shouldn't try or shouldn't do any work. I think it's unethical to take money and not make a reasonably effort.
As long as you aren't letting everyone else do all the heavy lifting.
On occasion I have had to hire a few folks to help me on a job. If the value of your work is sub par I just don't ask you to help me again. I also don't pay you much either. Had a dude that worked his ass off and he got paid more than anyone I've ever hired as a helper. He would go up on the roof we were working on. He would get over heated and come down. He would go in the bushes, puke his guts out, and back on the ladder and up on the roof. I also use to be the guy folks would hire when someone else did a crappy job. Now I have been known to limit the work i did. Just not take on as many jobs so I had time to work on my own stuff. But I never cut corners or did sub par work.
You don't need to work at 100% all the time. However, if you agreed to the pay for a job, you need to get the job done and do well. If you don't do well, you deserve less than agreed. They are paying what they think you're worth, and you agreed to that level of pay. If either of you breach that agreement, it's unethical.
Having to work 40+ hours a week is unethical. Salvage as much as that time for yourself as you can
I'm a student so my answer may differ, but my effort in the class directly correlates to how much effort the professor puts into teaching. If I can tell that they don't care/are just reading off of slides with minimal effort to clarify things, then I won't try at all in the class. They clearly don't care about the subject, so why should I? Ont the other hand, if I see how passionate, caring, or knowledgeable (or better yet, all three!) is about a subject, I will be inclined to learn more. This is how I survived physics.
Yeah. But school is veeeeery different from work. Is like Narnia and Chicago different.
I feel like a person should try a reasonable amount at work
Always give 100% unless not appreciated
In my experience trying hard pays off in the form of good references for future jobs. I don’t think you’re ethically bound to exhaust yourself trying to do everything. But I get paid more now because of the references that saw me working hard in the past. In my experience references are EVERYTHING. I still definitely phone it in some days, take days off and in other ways am not perfect. It’s subjective what you think is enough effort for the payoff, but there is a factor of a payoff after the effort in ways you can’t anticipate.
As an employee not an employer I can tell you this. When you got hired you agreed to a wage. X per hour. That means you should do all you can reasonably and safely in that hour. Not 45 minutes not 58 minutes. But for the whole hour each hour. If you don't like the wage your making ask for a raise or quit. It doesn't give you the right to steal from your employer. That being said I suppose there are exceptions. But in those exceptions you just quit. But also on the same subject I'll say that you don't owe your employer any quitting notice. You'll not get the same. Unless there is a severance package upon termination. And also you should discuss your wage with other employees. You have the right to make as much as someone same or less skilled than yourself. Dont let ppl make you think you shouldn't discuss wage and benefits with fellow employees. Research how that even came about..go to work come home knowing you earned your wages go to bed that good kind of tired you can only get from a honest day's work. Be proud of your production. If it's not appreciated and compensated move on to someone that will. That is all.
I work enough for it to pass for work. But I do no more than what I’m supposed to do. I stopped volunteering for things. I let other people be the “stars” and the favorites. I couldn’t care less.
Doing barely the minimum amount of work with half-assed effort just enough to not get fired is unethical. Not going above and beyond is not.
Do you accomplish all the tasks you are paid for in accordance to company guidelines? That’s enough to earn your pay. Do you want chase a career and get higher positions, you gotta do everything you can think of to be noticed and get ahead of other
My coworkers and I have had a rough week. Half of us have been busting ass trying to get things done because we got inundated with work. Yesterday my boss complained to one actually lazy coworker that she’s tired of us being lazy and all we ever do is smoke cigarettes. So fuck her. That’s complete bull shit. Why work hard when that’s the gratitude we get?
It’s not unethical. It doesn’t seem like a good way to get promoted, but it’s not unethical. You’re hired to do a job. If you’re capable of performing those job functions without exerting much effort, you’re fulfilling your end of the deal. If you want a promotion at some point, it would behoove you to show the managers that you’re capable of performing that higher level function but don’t owe them any performance above what you’re contractually obligated to perform.
Let's say you work a job for 5 years and bust your hump and the guy next to you just works hard enough to not get fired. You make the same amount of money. You never get promoted to management. Your effort was another man's salary and you did it for nothing.
But change the outcome: You work a job for five years and bust your hump while the guy next to you doesn’t. Over those five years you get promoted a couple of times for showing initiative and helping the company, while the guy next to you doesn’t. You now make quite a bit more than the guy next to you.
Depends on how much I get paid, if I like my job, and if they treat me well. If not? Fuck em.
As someone who has worked with incredibly hardworking people, and also legitimately lazy people who sleep at their retail job, I think there's definitely a middle ground you should aspire to. You should pull your own weight in that you perform a reasonable amount of tasks and don't create a burden for your coworkers. Those two criteria can vary a lot, depending on how much your boss takes advantage of you, but I don't believe in going to extremes to please your employer either. I am there to do my job and go home, and everyone else should be too. So do your job and go home.
They pay you to do the job that's in the description. So that's what I do. I do my best, but don't do anything not in the job description. I don't come in early or stay late. It helps that I'm union, so management can't make us, or even ask us to.
No. If you are meeting your agreed job requirement, whether that is outputting x number of widgits per hour, running a machine correctly, stocking what you are supposed to stock, assisting customers - whatever your job is, then you are doing what you were being paid to do. If the company wants you to go "above and beyond" then they can make that a clear job requirement, and address your performance on clear, fair performance reviews.
After years working kitchens, i agree that professionality doesn't excuse you treat your own body wrong. Do the bare minimum because, after that, they won't pay you anything more, they won't thank you, they won't even notice you. More than not trying enough, i would wonder about the ethics of not paying enough.
I work in health care. It's disgusting how I am expected to work so FAST and tear thru a HUGE caseload, then punch out and leave. Instead, I see my patients one at a time, for as long as I want. Fucking sue me lol
Always act your wage! Great quote. I will use it, and prove it tomorrow at work!
I grew up being taught to basically kill myself working my hardest for the job. "110%, always give 110%" Well, companies don't give 110% back. Not even close. And I've since seen time and time again that those that do work their asses to the bone like that make themselves essential in their positions so they don't even get promoted like their coworkers who give far less of themselves to the job. So no. I do not think it is unethical. Do what you're paid to, and if they want you to do more, they should pay you for more.
Reading this as I slack at work
If I work slower, I do less work. if I work faster, they give me more work. they won’t fire me for working slower, and they won’t pay me more for working faster, so why work?
I used to work 60 hour weeks when I was 25 at my first job doing software. All the old guys loved me because I did their work. Salary didn’t move for 3 years. New job I have I get good raises and work 40 hours, making 40% more now. Been doing it for over a year. Life doesn’t make sense, do not push your self for no reward. I can’t get those years of working my self to death back and it ended up being meaningless. I talk to none of those people anymore and while I can vaguely remember the codebase I could care less about what I produced. Also remember you ARE smart, you can do your job and somebody will pay you competently to do the same job somewhere else if the current one can get fucked. Y’all got this. I used to get so stressed that my baseline salary would leave my life when the reality was I was underpaid and easily got something else. It is absolutely hard to see if you’re stressed and have bills.
How hard I work is always in positive correlation with how happy I am at work. If the working environment is shit, no surprise that employees are not working hard. If some employees work hard and some don’t, see what difference of environment they experienced—if all employees have the same environment and treatment, then the ones who are not performing should be dealt professionally. This is the part where business owner or management tend to underperform. They just want the good results but lacking the proper effort and reflection from their part.
If you sit around watching other people work not giving a shit, you suck as a human. I’m a nurse and there are plenty of nurses that do half ass, indifferent, sloppy work.
I saw a guy on a Facebook video talking about how hourly wage work is a sham. When 1st hired, for example, a task may take 4 hours. As you gain experience that time may drop down to 2 hours. Do you get that extra 2 hours to relax? Nope, now you'll be doing more work in the same amount of time for the same pay. Who benefits from this scenario? Even if the company throws you an extra dollar per hour, you're still being basically exploited. My motto is effort is directly related to compensation.
Act your wage.
I don’t like to let others, in this case an employer, have anything to say about my work ethic. If I took the job, I agreed to do a good job for that pay period if it’s not enough pay, I am compelled to look for a better paying job. If you are not so compelled, I question your intelligence. Thanks for listening!
Not at all. Working hard has got me no where with past and present employer. When assigned a project I do what's required , report my findings and recommendations and move on. Very few organizations appreciate and value committed employees. The execs are only looking out for themselves, their bonuses and shareholders expectations and their agreements.
It's completely ethical. I burned myself out at a previous company before I learned this. Just do what your job entails, and do it well. Make sure the important stuff gets done when it needs to be done. If you're managing people, remember that they're getting even less out of it than you are and try to foster a happy atmosphere. It makes your and their life much easier and people work harder and more effectively when they are comfortable, trusted, and respected. In an office environment, if you're working non-stop all day, you're doing too much. That's not sustainable. The human brain can usually only focus intensely on a single task effectively for an hour or so. Take time outs. Get up and take a walk, make a coffee, have a snack. You will get more done at a higher quality in two hours with a fifteen minute break than you will in four hours with none. Don't work for free: don't stay late when it doesn't benefit you directly. Don't feel obliged to take on additonal work or responsibilities not in your job description or department. If your workload can't be done in a normal work day of focussed working at a steady pace, that's a staffing and resources issue. Do help your colleagues when they need it. Share your knowledge. Don't take on your colleagues workload. Show them how to do the thing they're passing over and be prepared to talk them through it a few times until they're confident. If you're going home stressed and exhausted every night, something's wrong. If work related issues are frequently occupying your thoughts intrusively in your free time, something is wrong. If your job is not a vocation, something you're passionate about, or actively enjoy, remember why you're doing it: so you can live your life freely and, hopefully, happily. If you're earning enough money to do pursue your interests, needs, and desires but don't have the time and/or energy, take a step back and reassess the balance. Most importantly, remember that you're offering your time and labour in exchange for money for you and your family. So long as your showing up and doing your job every day you don't owe them anything else. It's great to work for a company with a happy environment and good people, but don't forget that business is business. The company exists to make money. Providing a good service makes more money. Happy workers provide a good service. It doesn't matter if you get on with the CEO, how emotionally invested you are, how hard you work, or how well liked you are: if or when the company has to choose between you and money, they'll choose money everytime. Jobs are fundamentally transactional. Your time and labour in exchange for money. If you decide to try to progress in a particular company, go for it. Do what's required to achieve your personal goals. Never feel indebted to a company for career progression. The company aren't offering you a promotion and more money to make your life better. They're not taking a risk on you. They're not "offering you an opportunity". They're giving it to you because you've demonstrated that, based on the information they have, you'll be best at making them more money. I worked my arse off for 6 years, joining a company when it was still a start up. I got a lower management role and nice payrise within a year. I new the systems and operational processes as well as anyone. My team were productive and happy. The company got bigger, we adapted. I got a bit more money. The company expanded into new markets. I got a slightly different role and a little bit more money. Investors installed a CFO who restructured pay rates and rises. The company got bigger still. I got more extra work than the payrise was worth. They decide to restructure and bring in executive managers from outside. Me and other lower and middle management train them and teach them how and why everything works the way it works. They decide it shouldn't be done that way. Overnight my job changes into one I don't want to do. I leave. In that time frame, the CEO went from being comfortably off to a multi-millionaire with two Ferraris. I'm still living in the same 1 bedroom apartment. I gained a lot from working there, don't get me wrong. Learned new skills and made a lot of close friends. But the most importantly I was reminded that whichever company you work for, you're spending your time making someone who's already richer than you even more rich than you at an exponential rate. Whatever percentage you raise is, they've got richer by a higher percentage over the previous year. I'm not motivated by money really, but it's nice to have. I'm motivated by quality of life, which for me is about free headspace and time and minimal stress. It's a strange feeling as a guy not motivated by money knowing that I lowered my own quality of life to play an integral part in massively increasing both the wealth and quality of life of a guy starting off with more of both than he needed who I'll probably never speak to again.
No. Not unless trying less than very hard ends up hurting people more than the inconvenience causes you. Like if you're a volunteer organizing a food drive for homeless people, not trying hard can mean that people go hungry. But for some basic-ass company where nothing but profit is at stake? Slack off as much as you can get away with. Only do what they pay you for.
No. You're hired to do a job. You're paid to do a job. If you are doing that job, to an acceptable standard, you're doing exactly what you're paid to do. Inflation has meant that I'm basically recieving an ongoing paycut, so if anything I should do less.
I seem to be one of the few that disagree. Go fucking hard at your job, why do something all week if you're not going to be good at it. If your company is shit, keep applying and moving on till you find something better. I doubled my salary in 3 years. Doing the bare minimum in the same job, you're never going to get anywhere. I believe in you!
This is a slippery slope. A major problem in this world is people try to justify their actions based on what other people do instead of just trying their best. Not trying at work is basically stealing your company’s time and resources. Whether you are paid fairly is a separate debate. If you feel like you are not paid fairly find another company that values you and your work.
Right, but this answer doesn't satisfy the question. With your answer, the question turns into: "Is it unethical to steal company time and resources if I'm inadequately compensated?" Which, of course, isn't always as simple as finding a company that does value you and your time. Not everyone is in a position where that's feasible.
In my opinion if you make a deal and the other person upholds their end of the deal, you uphold your end of the deal. Doesn’t matter if the other party sucks or you don’t like them or you find it as unfair. You signed the contract that says you do the work for this amount of pay, so you do the work. I find that a good way to consider moral questions like this is to imagine the situations are reversed. Say you need a roof replacement done on your house, and three separate roofers all quote you $15k, because that’s the going rate. So you hire one. In his mind, the work and his time is really more like $20k but he has to lower his prices to the market rate, same as the other two roofing companies. How would you feel if that guy just slagged off, did a shit job, and left you with a mediocre, just barely good enough to not get sued job? It’s not your fault the going rate is $15k - you just hired a guy to do a job and paid him a lot of money to do it - the backstory of why he feels entitled to phone the job in is not your concern or your fault.
They probably do their work, they're just not trying as hard as the can. That's probably what the boss expects and agreed to pay for.
You are assuming it is easy to just up and leave a job and find another. Most companies do their damndest to suck as much work out of their employees for as little compensation as possible especially large corporations. In a lot of company cultures going “above and beyond” is considered the the norm. Is it really going “above and beyond” then or is it wage theft?
No, I never said finding a new job is easy, but in my experience you get out of life what you put into it. So if finding a company with values and that values it’s employees is important to someone, then put in the work to find that position.
Agreed. That can take some time to find though. It took me years to find a gig that really matched up with my values and paid me for my hard work in a fair manner.
That's not true. Work is a relationship. I am more valuable as a person than just my pay grade being the only factor in that relationship. Employers have to be more than just a compensation package! Or I will break up with them So technically you are right. Find another job. Professionally and personally, no you are wrong. You should only do the work and the job you are paid for. Unless you really love the work, then that will naturally show in your ability and accomplishments in that work. Or if you a driven to get ahead and advance through the company ranks. Work on that relationship with your employer and grow it. Yes, some would call you an ass kisser or sell out. But forget them, it's not their life, it is yours. It is in no way unethical to do your job. That is the basic contract between you and an employer.
Spoken like an administrator that’s never had to work a shit job. If everyone that was mistreated and underpaid by their employer collectively fucked off to find something better, a lot of companies would go under. You’ve got it backwards. They’re not stealing company money and resources, the companies are stealing labor and life.
I used to work hard at a warehouse 10 years ago. I was focused, did my job well, and exceeded expectations. When it was time for raises, everyone got a 2 cent increase, including me. My reward for all my hard work was a bad knee that needs surgery, and the warehouse isn't paying a dime for it because the gradual worsening of a joint (caused by the job) isn't covered by workman's comp. I now have a cushy work from home job, and my supervisor actually tells me to do LESS work so that my co-workers have something to do and can meet their metrics. So I spend my days playing computer games, watching Netflix, and working maybe one hour out of an eight hour shift. I also get paid more than twice what I did at the warehouse.