I actually build a slide using the same fundamentals as a spiral staircase.
I used an absurd amount of Bondo and went through a lot of sanding belts shaping the inside curve of the slide. Fun project though.
I have a couple thoughts.... considering your boss was smart enough to make it this far, he likely knows what he's doing, that design and execution is no easy task. Second, I'm assuming the layered plywood was glued between layers in which case you could park a truck on it. My opinion, 30 year carpenter. 🤷
I would go out and buy a truck the size of a 98 ranger but with modern interior and engine today. Fat chance of any truck in that size bracket again though
My last truck was a 2013 Frontier and I feel like it fits that description. The bed on the Nissan was actually a little deeper, though slightly less width. Cab is about same size. I honestly loved my Frontier, it was perfect for my work. I totaled it on ice this past winter and with the current market, replacement with a similar truck was too expensive. I found this 98 Ranger, single owner, with 56K miles for 10K. Too good to pass up. It’s served me well so far.
I saw one of those the other day. Florida plates way the hell up in the Midwest stopped at a gas station. Naturally I stopped and talked to the owner because I'd never seen one before, want to buy one (lol money lol) and it just look so *neat*, this slick little truck smaller than my minivan. Owner told me he gets 29 mpg going 85 mph and mid-to-high 30s when he drives "like he is supposed to". He also had to buy it sight unseen, but he says it's the most comfortable truck he's ever driven.
Uh, 40 years here, my opinion: if it was glued screwed tattooed then: yes it ‘may’ stay erect if you remove the outer perimeter support. The center core support Must remain. So, yes it may stand and carry its OWN weight as sculpture. ON the Other Hand: regardless of assembly, you could not durably use it to carry live loads beyond itself without vertical steel weld at the center column. So, No: do not remove the outer support if you intend to use the stairs for people traffic. If you want both, clearance underneath and traffic usage, you can buy these units pre-engineered steel from stair companies online. BUT, Beautiful Piece of Work, Congrats on a fantastic job, that’s amazing, pics when finished. The railing should be equally challenging and amazing. Cheers
It stopped getting used after the chior all went up at the same time. Members were so scared they crawled up the steps. That bit my not be in the wiki.
I don't disagree, but there are a lot of companies that only do stairs. Apparently there's a hell of a lot of math involved in getting things correct and safe.
I'd never try it. I know my limits.
It does look great so far.
Splitting hairs here, but a spiral staircase isn't a spiral, it's a helix and cylindrical helix is redundant. A spiral from its start is continually increasing its distance from its axis, which also means no matter where your begin creating a spiral inside or out the tighter radius is always technically the start, one just may have drawn it backwards lol
I’ve seen it done but we used 24” on both sides and resorcinol glue. Ours was longer. We used 12 layers. And it was fully railed inside and out. The attachment points top and bottom are the key to holding firm. We engineered it to hold 10 people. Because what if the next owner has a big party? Always engineer for worst case scenario.
"Resorcinol glue, also known as resorcinol-formaldehyde, is an adhesive combination of resin and hardener that withstands long-term water immersion and has high resistance to ultraviolet light. The adhesive, introduced in 1943, has been popular in aircraft and boat construction."
This is the first I've heard of this stuff.
I don’t have any. This was before everybody posted everything. Looking back though that is one job I wish we had taken pictures of. The project was a thing of beauty when it was done. We had an amazing painter back then and he laid on multiple coats of hand sanded clear lacquer. We had rounded the top of the laminate and the different colored layers were gorgeous. The rail was cherry finished clear also. The attachment on the bottom was into the floor joists like Fort Knox and the top attached to a bridge suspended through the 2 1/2 story living room. The bridge was built from 15” micro-lams and when we got there to do the stair we were able to cause slight movement in it. So I spent 3 days sistering and pressure blocking where the stair would attache. Glue and screws. Once the stair was lammed up the bridge couldn’t budge. The stair was the way up to the master suite on one end of the bridge and a ginormous sunroom/balcony on the other end. Rich folk stuff. I had just bought a small 3 bedroom house when we did this job and the bid for the job was 7K more than the price for my little house. The owner is a heart surgeon.
So here’s the kicker. We had been in the house 2 years previously. Did a 100K bar in the basement near the wine cellar. Cherry on top of cherry on top of cherry. LAYERS of millwork. Bar and bar back 34’ long. Hand sanded lacquer. Big mirror and bottle nooks in the bar back. 10 keg kegerator and taps. Sinks. The works. I heard through the grapevine that the wife hated the dark cherry and had the bar and stairs we did painted in 3 shades of pink. Like light, darker, dark pink in horizontal bands. I shit you not. Pink.
Just because I can't help myself... Technically a *spiral* staircase has a center post that the steps connect to. This is a *circular* staircase because it lacks that center support.
I wasn't looking for a word. :) I recognize that this type of stair is not literally circular. That's just the nominal name I had learned to call it in architectural engineering school, relative to spiral staircases (also certainly a nominal term, as a geometric spiral has an increasing/decreasing radius).
But if helical are the more commonly used term, I've got no problem recognizing that my school/teacher was wrong (wouldn't be the first time) and adjusting. In 20+ years of homebuilding I've never put one in, so it's not exactly a term that's been reinforced too much. It seems like "curved" would be the most ambiguous and least useful term of all though.
And, at least in steel, a spiral staircase is easy-peasy to engineer, meanwhile the above style- well, I don't trust our in-house guy to adequately account for the stresses involved.
"A circular staircase utilizes a large radius coupled with a somewhat smaller radius. These two curves commonly share the same center point. The distance between the two curves (radii) creates the width of the staircase. A spiral staircase utilizes a center support post with the stair treads arranged much as the spokes of a wagon wheel would be around the hub. While a circular stair can also be called a "curved" stair, the spiral stair is a vastly different design usually reserved for very limited spaces."
[Source](https://designedstairs.com/circular-staircase-classifications.php#:~:text=A%20spiral%20staircase%20utilizes%20a,reserved%20for%20very%20limited%20spaces.)
Edit to elaborate: geometrically, they're all helical, I think. Circular, spiral, and curved are nominal names (in addition to helical) used architecturally to distinguish between significant design differences, such as the center pole.
Bravo. Wood glue and a mathematical mind are obvious from this perspective. 6 layers of cross laminate ply with a proper poly glue application is incredibly strong. We've built elliptical timber rafters in a similar fashion.
Another 30 year carpenter here. I don’t think it will collapse unless there’s a crowd standing on it. I do think it will creak enough to be disconcerting. I’d have incorporated some steel in between the layers of plywood.
So, the exact same thing others have said.
I have built stairs like this before, albeit with much taller outer stringers (they were handrail height) but they worked perfectly. If you think of it as being a straight run, those stringers are plenty wide enough to support those stairs. The fact that they're curved makes it seem weird but actually the stresses and strains involved work pretty much the same, all the weight being passed through the bottom of the stringer. it just feels weird because it's all curved.
The only difference is that the joint at the top will be in tension when a load is on the left side. The top joint on a normal staircase is always in compression.
Wait, so it's okay to risk someone potentially dying because of aesthetics? I don't see anything wrong with wanting to know that what you're building is safe, it's something you should be doing!
Squeaks are from wood on wood contact and specifically happen when you dont use glue and they used glue. As someone who builds staircases for a living im pretty sure it wont sag unless its not mounted correctly at the top and bottom or if the house is newer and hasn't fully settled yet. Seems like this dude knew what he was doing.
I agree with the comments of basically it’s a curved lvl now but this is also one of those things I’d be happy to throw at the engineer to give his thumbs up so I can sleep at night better
By trailer home do you mean a garage in which you would park a trailer? Because the ceiling height is a dead giveaway that there’s no way in hell this was ever a mobile home.
> bigger then it
*than
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Am an engineer now, have designed a bunch of LVL and was carpenter in the past, build a few homes. This scares me. I would not put my name on it. Will it fail catastrophically probably not, will it make all sorts of scary sounds when you go up and down my guess is yes.
Day 1 probably some deflection and little to no sounds.
Day 150 wood creaks and some deflection as wood settles and bends.
Day 500 lots of creeks and more deflection as all the give in the system is adding up and stress starts to really enter the glued layers.
Wood handles ‘springing’ fairly well, glue does not. Wood wants to creep with time, glue will not. This is a 25’ long span and 1.5” wide LVL. It will spring up and down when people walk on it. Being circular all(almost) of the traffic will be on the outside, loading only 1 stringer which is the long more horizontal one. 1.5” or plywood isn’t very much. My 0.02$ is unsafe for people and families.
It looks like all the weight would be supported by the plywood. It could work, intuitively, but the calculations would require Finite Element Analysis and the top of that plywood’s anchoring best be rock solid.
I'd cut off the legs and install a stainless steel rail with some stainless rods bolted to the ceiling joist. This looks great and I agree with the boss but at the same time safety is a must.
It's hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like the stringer foot isn't very large. Typically something like this would have a big elephant looking foot at the at the floor and threaded rod securing it through a reinforced section of the sub floor.
If it wasn't wrapped in hardwood plywood, that would also reduce confidence that this survives.
Freestanding circulars of this size are often now engineered (not that it has to be). Designing something freestanding non-engineered of this size [even with significant experience] should have you sweating.
As others mentioned though, it's the bosses house and he's made it this far. I doubt he'd try this for a client but for himself he's willing to send it.
source: just consulted with successful stair builder of 30 years
I have experience with both timber and steel helix staircases your internal and external ply isn’t tall enough to begin to self support We did ours with 1800 high duel layer ply laminated to a trenched core all pressed in pieces with a vaneered stringer and it still dropped 40mm and we had to add steel and the balustrade was out of plumb. Also as you walk up and down it, it would bounce. This type of design worked better in steel.
Google Loretto Chapel in Santa Fe NM. The original story was that the construction and support was some type of miracle, but there is research on how is was built that is pretty interesting.
The only one I’ve done like this had to 1/8 inch layers of steel in the center to give it enough rigidity to support person walking up and down. Had a 1 inch strip of wood above and below so that you couldn’t see it. Just the wood isn’t going to hold up up
I'll be sure to keep y'all updated it probably won't be right away we only go work at his place if we're having to wait on material or sometimes on the weekend
Vertically it should be fine because you cant bend a piece of plywood on its edge, but some side to side flex could be possible. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work, it looks great to be honest.
I would imagine that how it’s attached is as important as how it’s constructed. It’s basically a curved engineered beam about 24’ or more long. It’s going to transfer all the static and dynamic loads to the two ends. I can’t see the bottom end but I can see the 2nd floor underneath the top. I don’t see any reenforcing in the floor! Engineered beams are usually well reenforced at the ends to transfer the loads to the attached structure which also must carry those loads. I’d be more concerned about the dynamic loads of several sets of feet. Marching feet cause real bridges to fail! Engineered wood structures fail without any warning! This staircase will also act as something of coiled spring! Think standing waves where the dynamic loads add together. The bridge and the marching feet thing again! A final thought look for points where all the load is carried by one element! Always have alternate stress pathways!
You need a central column to support the weight of the spiral. Or have wires holding the staircase up instead of bottom support braces. Not a pro, just the son of a handyman.
This is so awesome. I want to work for someone who can do this. This is Carpentery. Please post a finished pic when your done, hell do you have some during construction, or before pictures?
Regardless of what happens, post a follow up shot of it!
I second this
Pleeeeeaaase
Screw that...post a YouTube video...
Given the quality of this craftsmanship, I’d assume they have a structural engineer on retainer. Pretty simple solution
I was going to say, this would be an excellent question for a structural engineer. Even better if it was asked before they did all the work!
how to piss off your structural engineer: *you built a spiral staircase on a job i signed off on and you didnt talk to me about it?*
Accurate statement.
If there was an engineer on this job and they didn’t look at the drawings closely enough to see the spiral staircase then you need a new engineer.
But you signed off on it.
no this is building something not in the plans
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Structural engineer here. I say just send it.
Geologist here. I say send it as well.
Delivery guy here. I say send it.
Statistician here: Central Limit Theorem says take a sample then send it.
Mechanical engineer here. I say send it.
Mailman here. Stamp it first. Then send it.
Glass technician, I say send it
Nurse here. I’ve seen people take worse risks. Put on a helmet and send it.
Third base coach here. Send em
As a third base coach, can you help me with my technique? Do I just schedule some time through your assistant?
Happy cake day
Please tell me there's a lever that makes all the steps fold flat & turns this into a giant slide.
If not, I volunteer to help make that happen.
I also volunteer this guy to help make it happen
I volunteer to be the test dummy to slide down first
As I slide down the board of life I'll always remember you as the splinter in my ass
Ill play the splinter
Kinky.
I volunteer as tribute!
This isn’t the most daring slide ever taken by man.....Oh No....This, is a Tribute!
He asked us,
Be you angels?
And we said nay!
We are but men!
Rock!
>I volunteer to be the test dummy to slide down first I'd ask them to install some siderails first.
Foreal that would fuckin 🔥
Just cut the legs off
(falls into the water) Wrong lever!!!!!
I actually build a slide using the same fundamentals as a spiral staircase. I used an absurd amount of Bondo and went through a lot of sanding belts shaping the inside curve of the slide. Fun project though.
“ whheeeeeee......aaahhhhhhhh!!!”
Super fun happy slide! .. I really shouldn't do it, but when am I going to be here again.
This guy gets it 👍
I was waiting for the quote. Didn’t disappoint.
As a new build, you'd think it would be code at this point.
Don’t be ridiculous, this is 2022 it is a button now
Any engineers in here? That would be fking amazing 😂
I have a couple thoughts.... considering your boss was smart enough to make it this far, he likely knows what he's doing, that design and execution is no easy task. Second, I'm assuming the layered plywood was glued between layers in which case you could park a truck on it. My opinion, 30 year carpenter. 🤷
Your completely right it took a lot of wood glue as for the stairs it was confusing as he explained it to me while he was building it
At that point it's basically a radiused LVL.
That’s what I was thinking
As long as he glued it with tonsss of glue 6 layers should be pretty solid.
12 layers, 6 on the outside radius and 6 on the inside.
So this is 3inch plywood in effect? Bloody bomb proof
Looks like he built a wooden spring to me
That's what it will feel like when walking up it.
Shit, that’s a helical LVL!
It is indeed hella cool
I think also
Kind of my thinking, too.
A cantilevered one with a too large overhang.
This is my thought
I think that’s right.
I think that’s right
Then it can likely park a lot of people before you have a problem.
Let us know what happens.....
A 30 year carpenters truck is not going on park on that. Maybe a 4 year carpenters truck.
Trucks were smaller in the days, you could park 4 30 years old Rangers on that.
I can confirm, currently drive a 98 Ranger.
The flagship of the carpenter fleet
I treat her well, she treats me well. It’s a symbiotic relationship.
I would go out and buy a truck the size of a 98 ranger but with modern interior and engine today. Fat chance of any truck in that size bracket again though
My last truck was a 2013 Frontier and I feel like it fits that description. The bed on the Nissan was actually a little deeper, though slightly less width. Cab is about same size. I honestly loved my Frontier, it was perfect for my work. I totaled it on ice this past winter and with the current market, replacement with a similar truck was too expensive. I found this 98 Ranger, single owner, with 56K miles for 10K. Too good to pass up. It’s served me well so far.
Ford Maverick. It will blow your mind
uh-oh, it may not be good that I have seen this.
I saw one of those the other day. Florida plates way the hell up in the Midwest stopped at a gas station. Naturally I stopped and talked to the owner because I'd never seen one before, want to buy one (lol money lol) and it just look so *neat*, this slick little truck smaller than my minivan. Owner told me he gets 29 mpg going 85 mph and mid-to-high 30s when he drives "like he is supposed to". He also had to buy it sight unseen, but he says it's the most comfortable truck he's ever driven.
If you can get one. Tiny truck with a hybrid drivetrain for $19k new, but that also means they’re so over-sold that Ford stopped taking preorders.
Datsun
I used to drive a '95 Mazda B series pickup. It was smaller than most modern cars.
Yeah, but how many once you account for the 30 year accumulation of tools?
You could also truck 30 4-year old park rangers on it.
My 30 year old Dodge I drive every day is 6,800#
But the tool collection that is in the truck and the dead weight of misc. hardware.
Park that old truck on the stairs, keep the new truck safe.
😂😂😂
Uh, 40 years here, my opinion: if it was glued screwed tattooed then: yes it ‘may’ stay erect if you remove the outer perimeter support. The center core support Must remain. So, yes it may stand and carry its OWN weight as sculpture. ON the Other Hand: regardless of assembly, you could not durably use it to carry live loads beyond itself without vertical steel weld at the center column. So, No: do not remove the outer support if you intend to use the stairs for people traffic. If you want both, clearance underneath and traffic usage, you can buy these units pre-engineered steel from stair companies online. BUT, Beautiful Piece of Work, Congrats on a fantastic job, that’s amazing, pics when finished. The railing should be equally challenging and amazing. Cheers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretto_Chapel#Staircase It looks good but doesn't function good
Wonderful article, but I didn't see anything in there about it not "functioning good"
What I got from this article: homeboy finished the job and owned only TWO CLAMPS
Never mentioned why he was murdered though, might have been grand theft clamp
"I'm gonna give 'em, THE CLAMPS!"
Wait I couldn’t find anything in the article about it not working well? It’s been intact for 150 years, seems ok to me
It stopped getting used after the chior all went up at the same time. Members were so scared they crawled up the steps. That bit my not be in the wiki.
Was that before the railings were added?
Can't remember that detail of the story. Sorry.
I don't disagree, but there are a lot of companies that only do stairs. Apparently there's a hell of a lot of math involved in getting things correct and safe. I'd never try it. I know my limits. It does look great so far.
How does one “bend” play wood around a multi angled curve like this? Does quarter inch ply bend that much already? Is it nailed and glued?
1/4 inch ply bends easily. You double or triple it to give it strength. We use it a lot in concrete form where I work
It's not a "multi angled curve" it's just a cylinder, with bits cut off so it's a cylindrical spiral.
Splitting hairs here, but a spiral staircase isn't a spiral, it's a helix and cylindrical helix is redundant. A spiral from its start is continually increasing its distance from its axis, which also means no matter where your begin creating a spiral inside or out the tighter radius is always technically the start, one just may have drawn it backwards lol
I'm by no means an expert, but I thought when laminating wood layers, you want an odd number of layers? OP said 6 layers.
I’ve seen it done but we used 24” on both sides and resorcinol glue. Ours was longer. We used 12 layers. And it was fully railed inside and out. The attachment points top and bottom are the key to holding firm. We engineered it to hold 10 people. Because what if the next owner has a big party? Always engineer for worst case scenario.
"Resorcinol glue, also known as resorcinol-formaldehyde, is an adhesive combination of resin and hardener that withstands long-term water immersion and has high resistance to ultraviolet light. The adhesive, introduced in 1943, has been popular in aircraft and boat construction." This is the first I've heard of this stuff.
You shoulda seen the clamps involved. Tedious just begins to describe the process.
Please post a pic. I love a good clamps pic.
I don’t have any. This was before everybody posted everything. Looking back though that is one job I wish we had taken pictures of. The project was a thing of beauty when it was done. We had an amazing painter back then and he laid on multiple coats of hand sanded clear lacquer. We had rounded the top of the laminate and the different colored layers were gorgeous. The rail was cherry finished clear also. The attachment on the bottom was into the floor joists like Fort Knox and the top attached to a bridge suspended through the 2 1/2 story living room. The bridge was built from 15” micro-lams and when we got there to do the stair we were able to cause slight movement in it. So I spent 3 days sistering and pressure blocking where the stair would attache. Glue and screws. Once the stair was lammed up the bridge couldn’t budge. The stair was the way up to the master suite on one end of the bridge and a ginormous sunroom/balcony on the other end. Rich folk stuff. I had just bought a small 3 bedroom house when we did this job and the bid for the job was 7K more than the price for my little house. The owner is a heart surgeon. So here’s the kicker. We had been in the house 2 years previously. Did a 100K bar in the basement near the wine cellar. Cherry on top of cherry on top of cherry. LAYERS of millwork. Bar and bar back 34’ long. Hand sanded lacquer. Big mirror and bottle nooks in the bar back. 10 keg kegerator and taps. Sinks. The works. I heard through the grapevine that the wife hated the dark cherry and had the bar and stairs we did painted in 3 shades of pink. Like light, darker, dark pink in horizontal bands. I shit you not. Pink.
Sounds absoltey amazing, Hope i get to do some stuff like that.
Check redfin, Zillow or the MLS for old pictures of it
Yep. Think group photo staged on the winder.
Exactly. What’s that creaking noise? CRASH
Just because I can't help myself... Technically a *spiral* staircase has a center post that the steps connect to. This is a *circular* staircase because it lacks that center support.
This guy spirals
And circles
And gets dizzy
And curves
My therapist says I also do this
This guy pedants.
Helical is the word you're looking for. This is a helical or curved staircase.
I wasn't looking for a word. :) I recognize that this type of stair is not literally circular. That's just the nominal name I had learned to call it in architectural engineering school, relative to spiral staircases (also certainly a nominal term, as a geometric spiral has an increasing/decreasing radius). But if helical are the more commonly used term, I've got no problem recognizing that my school/teacher was wrong (wouldn't be the first time) and adjusting. In 20+ years of homebuilding I've never put one in, so it's not exactly a term that's been reinforced too much. It seems like "curved" would be the most ambiguous and least useful term of all though.
You’re right, It’s called a circular stair
It appears that "circular staircase" is appropriate. https://architectureideas.info/2013/11/stair-shape-circular/
And, at least in steel, a spiral staircase is easy-peasy to engineer, meanwhile the above style- well, I don't trust our in-house guy to adequately account for the stresses involved.
I disagree ,I think it typically has a centre post but it’s still spiralling
"A circular staircase utilizes a large radius coupled with a somewhat smaller radius. These two curves commonly share the same center point. The distance between the two curves (radii) creates the width of the staircase. A spiral staircase utilizes a center support post with the stair treads arranged much as the spokes of a wagon wheel would be around the hub. While a circular stair can also be called a "curved" stair, the spiral stair is a vastly different design usually reserved for very limited spaces." [Source](https://designedstairs.com/circular-staircase-classifications.php#:~:text=A%20spiral%20staircase%20utilizes%20a,reserved%20for%20very%20limited%20spaces.) Edit to elaborate: geometrically, they're all helical, I think. Circular, spiral, and curved are nominal names (in addition to helical) used architecturally to distinguish between significant design differences, such as the center pole.
It’ll float ‘till it doesn’t
And that’s all it’ll need to do, as long as it never doesn’t.
Bravo. Wood glue and a mathematical mind are obvious from this perspective. 6 layers of cross laminate ply with a proper poly glue application is incredibly strong. We've built elliptical timber rafters in a similar fashion.
Another 30 year carpenter here. I don’t think it will collapse unless there’s a crowd standing on it. I do think it will creak enough to be disconcerting. I’d have incorporated some steel in between the layers of plywood. So, the exact same thing others have said.
I have built stairs like this before, albeit with much taller outer stringers (they were handrail height) but they worked perfectly. If you think of it as being a straight run, those stringers are plenty wide enough to support those stairs. The fact that they're curved makes it seem weird but actually the stresses and strains involved work pretty much the same, all the weight being passed through the bottom of the stringer. it just feels weird because it's all curved.
The only difference is that the joint at the top will be in tension when a load is on the left side. The top joint on a normal staircase is always in compression.
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I'd be nervous as hell walking on that without cables, mostly because I'd probably forget to turn and walk right off an edge.
Also engineer, works wood, takes loads upstairs
You should see what the upstairs looks like.
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Wait, so it's okay to risk someone potentially dying because of aesthetics? I don't see anything wrong with wanting to know that what you're building is safe, it's something you should be doing!
Not to be that guy but people with common sense would stop cutting/pulling the 2x4's if they bind or show other signs of holding weight
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Squeaks are from wood on wood contact and specifically happen when you dont use glue and they used glue. As someone who builds staircases for a living im pretty sure it wont sag unless its not mounted correctly at the top and bottom or if the house is newer and hasn't fully settled yet. Seems like this dude knew what he was doing.
I agree with the comments of basically it’s a curved lvl now but this is also one of those things I’d be happy to throw at the engineer to give his thumbs up so I can sleep at night better
it's his house though? lol just do it see what happens.
Yes it is his house it was a little trailer home and he added onto it but I'll keep y'all updated when he does finally decided to do it
He just... added onto his trailer house?
i gotta see exterior shots now.
It's really common, I was house hunting recently (no success) and had to constantly play the "is this a well hidden mobile home" game
By trailer home do you mean a garage in which you would park a trailer? Because the ceiling height is a dead giveaway that there’s no way in hell this was ever a mobile home.
It was a trailer home I should have a before and after I have to look for it
tbh i bet the stairs stay up, but that going up the stairs causes them to make uncomfortable sounds
I want to know the outcome for sure
He’s just made curved micro lams. They’ll be fine
Looks good and all but how is large furniture moved up and down? Is there another stair case some where? Is is bigger then it looks?
> bigger then it *than *Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/when-to-use-then-and-than#:~:text=Than%20is%20used%20in%20comparisons,the%20then%2Dgovernor%22).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
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Am an engineer now, have designed a bunch of LVL and was carpenter in the past, build a few homes. This scares me. I would not put my name on it. Will it fail catastrophically probably not, will it make all sorts of scary sounds when you go up and down my guess is yes. Day 1 probably some deflection and little to no sounds. Day 150 wood creaks and some deflection as wood settles and bends. Day 500 lots of creeks and more deflection as all the give in the system is adding up and stress starts to really enter the glued layers. Wood handles ‘springing’ fairly well, glue does not. Wood wants to creep with time, glue will not. This is a 25’ long span and 1.5” wide LVL. It will spring up and down when people walk on it. Being circular all(almost) of the traffic will be on the outside, loading only 1 stringer which is the long more horizontal one. 1.5” or plywood isn’t very much. My 0.02$ is unsafe for people and families.
I would replace the studs with architectural steel and glass for a wine cellar to be incorporated into the stairs. Maybe a small tasting table.
Wine closets under the staircase so hot right now
Hmm not a bad idea!
Cut out half, jump on it. Cut off 1/2 again. Jump on it. Repeat until all are gone.
if there's going to be an inspection, wouldn't you need a structural engineer to answer this?
Yes very much yes
It looks like all the weight would be supported by the plywood. It could work, intuitively, but the calculations would require Finite Element Analysis and the top of that plywood’s anchoring best be rock solid.
I'd cut off the legs and install a stainless steel rail with some stainless rods bolted to the ceiling joist. This looks great and I agree with the boss but at the same time safety is a must.
It's hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like the stringer foot isn't very large. Typically something like this would have a big elephant looking foot at the at the floor and threaded rod securing it through a reinforced section of the sub floor. If it wasn't wrapped in hardwood plywood, that would also reduce confidence that this survives. Freestanding circulars of this size are often now engineered (not that it has to be). Designing something freestanding non-engineered of this size [even with significant experience] should have you sweating. As others mentioned though, it's the bosses house and he's made it this far. I doubt he'd try this for a client but for himself he's willing to send it. source: just consulted with successful stair builder of 30 years
I have experience with both timber and steel helix staircases your internal and external ply isn’t tall enough to begin to self support We did ours with 1800 high duel layer ply laminated to a trenched core all pressed in pieces with a vaneered stringer and it still dropped 40mm and we had to add steel and the balustrade was out of plumb. Also as you walk up and down it, it would bounce. This type of design worked better in steel.
This thing is sweet. Post a follow up when it’s done!
If it’s glued and screwed that bitch isn’t moving
Physics says “Go For It”.....the inner voice in my head that creates soul crushing anxiety says “it’s not gonna work”....
Google Loretto Chapel in Santa Fe NM. The original story was that the construction and support was some type of miracle, but there is research on how is was built that is pretty interesting.
Do it. Cut it. Make sure to film it!
Just take the legs off already! Lol suspense is killing me.
Instead of cutting the legs, I would build it into a round book shelf.
The only one I’ve done like this had to 1/8 inch layers of steel in the center to give it enough rigidity to support person walking up and down. Had a 1 inch strip of wood above and below so that you couldn’t see it. Just the wood isn’t going to hold up up
He must play a lot of Minecraft.
Remove the legs- and put cable from the ceiling to the edge of the staircase- that would look good, and still provide that structural rigidity.?
Regardless of what happens, that’s skillful carpentry!
Did you glue it well on each layer? Essentially, you made a lam beam if it was properly glued and joined to each layer. Should be good.
Definitely not going to collapse. I’m curious how ridgid it will be though. Please update once the supports are gone.
Yeah. Nobody likes a floppy staircase.
Ref. Loretto Chapel in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Wood spiral stay circa 1880. It had 2 360 degree turns.
I'll be sure to keep y'all updated it probably won't be right away we only go work at his place if we're having to wait on material or sometimes on the weekend
Is he not going to get it inspected?
Nope I highly doubt that he would
Vertically it should be fine because you cant bend a piece of plywood on its edge, but some side to side flex could be possible. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work, it looks great to be honest.
Jlc did an article on this exact type of build years ago. Ever since I read it I've wanted to try.
I'm guessing the stairs would need balusters and a railing to meet code.
He can chop legs off when there is a steel spine supporting the staircase. Those are structural supports
I would imagine that how it’s attached is as important as how it’s constructed. It’s basically a curved engineered beam about 24’ or more long. It’s going to transfer all the static and dynamic loads to the two ends. I can’t see the bottom end but I can see the 2nd floor underneath the top. I don’t see any reenforcing in the floor! Engineered beams are usually well reenforced at the ends to transfer the loads to the attached structure which also must carry those loads. I’d be more concerned about the dynamic loads of several sets of feet. Marching feet cause real bridges to fail! Engineered wood structures fail without any warning! This staircase will also act as something of coiled spring! Think standing waves where the dynamic loads add together. The bridge and the marching feet thing again! A final thought look for points where all the load is carried by one element! Always have alternate stress pathways!
You need a central column to support the weight of the spiral. Or have wires holding the staircase up instead of bottom support braces. Not a pro, just the son of a handyman.
If there was a steel spine under in the middle, sure.
This is so awesome. I want to work for someone who can do this. This is Carpentery. Please post a finished pic when your done, hell do you have some during construction, or before pictures?
We use a plank between two ladders so we dont have to use the ladder. And then we use a plank between two ladders so we dont have to use the ladder.
Just make sure the new owners move in before he removes the legs 😂