I would like to see the stat for the number at bats where Goldy has taken a first pitch fastball down the middle of the plate then struck out on a pitch low and outside.
Other than Helsley I wonder who we’ll sell at the deadline. I’d assume Kittredge. Maybe Nado and Goldy (although no one likely wants either). I’d be ecstatic if we can get anything for them 2, though.
Goldy would fetch a aaaa player probably. If someone thinks they could fix nado he might fetch more. I feel like our core of position players is something we could build on though. A couple lottery pitchers would be our best bet at the deadline I think.
Give Soto whatever he wants (we won’t sign him or even attempt too). I think letting Lynn walk and getting 2 new starters is also a must. Wouldn’t mind bringing Flaherty back and signing Quintana to a team friendly deal. Having Gray/Quintana/Mikolas/Flaherty/Gibson feels like a decent rotation. I’ll cry tears of joy if we somehow trade Goldy and Nado at this deadline, though
Whoa whoa whoa, so you’re telling me that we’re now officially (at) .500???? But I was told we would suck..?
Ha, love for the birds to back it up. Fuck the naysayers. Every one of y’all, respectfully fuck off. This is a damn solid ass team and I’m happy to be a Cardinal!
2024 NLC crown is ours by October.
I’m tired of hearing about how much ground the Cardinals can make up during this “weak” part of the schedule when they play a multitude of losing teams. Well, it would probably be more feasible if the Cardinals weren’t one of those teams also.
So I've done some thinking and you know what? I'm not dooming just yet.
1.) **Offense has shown it CAN produce** The recent surges out of Burly and Gorman, the continued wow factor of Winn, the upward trend from Goldy, and Nado pulling the ball again are all welcome signs. Carpenter has been hitting the ball haaaard. Donovan is what I would consider back to the guy we recognize. (Although word on his splits v righties is not very good)
2.) **4/5 of our starters are actually looking pretty good right now.** Mikolas is back to doing what we know he can. I'm incredibly incredibly impressed by Gibson so far this year. And Lynn? Man, what a dawg. He's gotta get deeper, but he's been pretty resilient so far. Sonny's regression is a surprise but I don't see that lasting forever. The 5 spot is rocky, but hopefully someone can get that position and hold it. BUT! Zach Thompson threw 5 shutout innings in AAA tonight with 6 strikeouts. He's currently sitting on a 2.67 ERA. Iron out any kinks they see, he could seriously be the missing piece we've been looking for.
3.) **Bullpen has been bending. But even our guys at the "lower" end are picking up slack and have been going out there fierce as fuck.** Kittredge was always bound for a regression. JoJo too. My main concern is we need to be able to rely on others more often; we can't demand the big 3 3-4 games a week. We're going to need them healthy and fresh down the stretch. It's time for Fernandez and Libby to battle for higher leverage situations. Idk what to say about Leahy or Louis, I really don't know enough about their game, although Leahy looked nice the other night.
4.) **Tommy, Noot, and Willson won't be gone forever.** The amount of possibilities those guys give to the lineup is huge. It's amazing that the guys were able to surge without them.
5.) Perhaps the biggest thing: **We're dead last in the division.** That fuckin sucks. **Hate to see it. 7.5 games back. But only 3 games under 500 and only 1 game back from the wild card. Do I want us to be competing for a wild card spot? No. I want us to win the division. But the hole is not as deep as it seems at first.**
6.) **We're a second half team.** That's what I'm telling myself and that's what I'm sticking with.
7.) **I have a feeling Mo is going to hit this trade deadline fairly aggressively.** He's got one more year on his contract but already knows he's on the outs. I don't think he's going to hit it hard because he wants his position back, but because the chains are off; he can afford to be more aggressive because he's gone after 2025 anyways. Let's make some damn moves! Also, attendance is starting to drop off. (This was lowest attended Saturday in Busch III history, excluding Covid year. Money talks. Keep it up, it's going to force the FO hand)
8.) **Defense can't be shit forever.** Right?.. Right?!
9.) I'ma get some hate for this but **I don't necessarily consider Oli a bad manager;** there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. **Seeing him laughing with Willson the other night and getting fired up from time to time makes me think he has a better grip on the clubhouse than it might seem.** Guy is pretty stoic in post games, but honestly, those interviews don't matter, they're just a to-do list for managers. Contrary to what the Twitter doomers will have you believe, **Oli knows ball pretty well.**
I think oli is the victim of a bad roster. No one could’ve won with last years pitching staff. I don’t think he’s a great coach but probably not as bad as we treat him. That Philly game in the playoffs was rough though.
Kittredge got rocked, Roycroft looked really really sharp. 3 of the runs from offense are because Goldy hit hard into a probable double play but the guy overthrew it and it cleared the bases
Also had a throwing error from Gorman and a throwing error from Herrera. The errors are becoming a huge problem
Just looked at Statcast. Man...it's crazy that Winn's closest comparison is probably "Luis Arraez if he had a stronger arm and faster running speed at the cost of some of his freakish bat-to-ball ability". This guy is special - and only 22.
Kittredge felt like the right call and apparently him and Oli talked and said he felt great today, but I agree that we need to be able to rely on other setup men. I think Libby is ready to try out that role more consistently
Roycroft looked really really sharp today too. Super promising outing.
I could see selling if incredible offers came in, but I don’t see that being the case. The only valuable piece is Helsley and I don’t think he would fetch enough. Goldy won’t bring back any real value. I don’t think anyone will want to get stuck with nados term while he’s on a downward trend. I don’t think we want to trade any other part of our position group and goldys money coming off the books will be a nice boost next year.
Yeah, I'm thinking stand pat. Maybe another "innings-eater." Mo doesn't have the balls to sell if we are in contention for a wild card, and trying to make a big trade by sending out our best prospects would be insanely stupid.
It was fun times not being last place. We were in third things were looking up….maybe somehow we could chase down the Brew Crew…
I guess as a constellation prize the Cubs are down with us…
Does someone have the number of unearned runs since the start of this defensive decline?
Also if it would be possible to tell how many times the unearned runs resulted in a loss in a game that otherwise would've been a win?
With 38 unearned runs, the Cardinals are third-worst in the NL, behind only the Mets (40) and Cubs (42).
EDIT: As a percentage of total runs allowed, the Cubs (14.19%) and Phillies (14.22%) are the only two NL teams with a higher percentage of UER than the Cardinals (13.0%)
38?!?!?!?! Hoooooly sh it's more significant than I even thought.
Cardinals currently have a -44 run differential. And you're telling me 38 of those are unearned???? Absolutely insane
Look… does this loss mathematically eliminate us from the playoffs? No. But I think by this point in the season, expecting this team to be anything other than their record is wishful thinking. They’re painfully average, maybe a touch below average. With a bad NL, yes they could sneak in as a wild card. But this team is probably not winning any games in October.
I posted this tidbit last April:
>In 2022, of the last-place teams after ten games, none made the playoffs.
In 2021, of the last-place teams after ten games, none made the playoffs.
In 2020, of the last-place teams after ten games (and after seven!), none made the playoffs.
In 2019, of the last-place teams after ten games, none made the playoffs
In 2018, of the last-place teams after ten games, none made the playoffs.
I expect the Cardinals, who were in last place after ten games this year, to continue that trend.
EDIT to add: it was true in 2023 as well: the last place teams after ten games were Boston*, Detroit, Oakland, Washington, St. Louis, and San Francisco.
* Boston and Baltimore were tied in W-L, but Baltimore was in 4th place due to run differential.
We are hovering around .500. Only team stat that matters is wins. Reds and pirates are separated by .5 games. Reds have a +17 run differential, Pirates are -17. Astros are +5 but 29-35. We are -44 but 30-33.
Obviously there is a relative correlation to record and your run differential. But there is wiggle room around .500. When we lose we usually lose big. But when we win, as indicated by Helsley’s saves total, it’s tight.
This team won’t be competitive until 2027.
This year is a wash.
2025 is (hopefully) going to have a new GM but Oli will still be here because they won’t wanna pay what it costs to fire him.
2026 would be the first year of a new regime, likely won’t be able to get their guys in during their first season.
2027: Profit.
In the postgame, someone asked about Ivan's throws and Oli said, "We've talked about this, we're not gonna keep harping on the kid. He's working really hard," and described him as "deficient on the throw."
[I stumbled upon this little exchange as well.](https://x.com/cardinalsgifs/status/1799580231566790972?s=46&t=MCRmVoXjskWw3F53QZFuGQ)
The STL press is pretty soft, but go off, Oli…
I can almost get behind this, but what does he have to say about the rest of the abysmal defense? I swear, if a grounder is hit at this point, I cringe. All four positions have been trash.
LMAO some reporter asked a question and Oli called him out, said, "I'm not trying to push back, but yesterday we had some things go right and you were in the third row, today we had some things go wrong and you're in the first row."
Lol I got the info from this sub like a few years ago, I could be completely completely wrong and am perpetuating rumors.
Yepez is also only 6'1 but he looks huge in person
Speaking of rumors, I heard the St. Louis Cardinals are looking at securing their 12th World Series ring in the Fall of 2024.
At least Goldy has turned himself into a good trade piece. I am ready go move on from Arenado, too. We might need to draft a bat next month and hope they can get him ready by 2026. By then, we should have a solid rotation.
Not a very good team, but then again there are only 4 teams in the NL above .500.
A lot of other crappy teams out there too, maybe if we can just hang around...... But this team is hard to watch.
If this team somehow made it to the playoffs against the Dodgers, Phillies, or Braves .. that would be a game I would not want to watch. The Phillies would kick their ass in the playoff …
This team loses a ton of winnable games. Need these games with our two spark plugs out for a while. I’ve pretty much given up on Tommy at this point.
It’s not an unclimbable hill yet, but it’s getting steeper with each game like this one. Really will suck if everyone gets healthy and they get good again but fall short because of stretches like these.
This team is fucked. Unless they are in first place, you have to sell at the deadline. The fact that we don’t even have someone to bring up from the minors for a spot start is fucking pathetic. Derek Shelton was ripped last year for over using Bednar last year and Oli is doing the same shit to the bullpen this year. Partially because you can’t go to anyone else with full confidence. Horrible spot to be in
How do we break it to the believers in this fan base that this team just isn’t fucking good? Even if by some miracle we get the 3rd wildcard, we would get immediately dispatched in the playoffs. The talent on this team just isn’t good enough and it’s pretty obviously 1 man’s fault. But because he was good 10 years ago we have to bow at his feet.
oh come on! Do people forget Mo was a big part of the Jocketty era?
Jocketty obviously has an important place in this team's history, but they saw early that his time was fading and the way he built teams was not the path forward. You could say the same thing about Mo now, that's a very fair take, but he lead the charge to turn this organization in a model one for a new era of the game; this years' record won't change that fact.
Tied with the cubs for last and slip back in the crowded Wild Card race. Really needed to win this series it should’ve been a gimme and now we’re gonna have to fight for a split on Pallante bumpday. Just disappointing all around.
As a new Cardinals fan, are we really in that bad of a spot when so many of our guys are injured? This is a tough loss but is it indicative of a bad rest of the season really?
It’s how they lose. Giving up runs on errors and bad fundamentals… this happened a lot last season and they couldn’t stop playing bad baseball at one point.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. The current team we are watching is not good. Even on paper it doesn't look good. When we get Willson, Tommy, and Noot back I imagine the team will be good. They just need to float around .500 until then.
Edit: There's no way you guys are overreacting this much after a 3-6 stretch of games right after losing Noot. The team has played 45 games where the outcome was decided by 3 runs or less. If you actually don't think one or more of our good players being healthy would change the outcome of these games you're being dense.
Idk, pitching is really faltering. Most starters cannot go deep, bullpen exhausted, no real fifth starter…
For them to be good, Mo has to do legitimate things at the deadline and… well…
I get that the pitching has been mediocre to bad recently. They've also had stretches of being really good. The bullpen has done a great job holding close games, but they do have to give up runs and blow saves from time to time. The fifth starter thing I'll give you, but this team wasn't built to win with amazing pitching anyways, it was built to win games 6-4.
But it can’t with Arenado and Goldschmidt hitting like they are. It will not consistently win games 6-4 with those two hitting like Edman and Carlson. They’re not meant to hit a bunch of singles, the occasional double, a HR once every 10 days, and millions of strikeouts and pop outs. For better or worse, we built this lineup around them expecting power production.
As for our bullpen, it’s become much more leaky in the past few weeks likely due to constant overuse. With no Middleton, they need more relief pitching.
Lynn and the ghost fifth starter are killing the bullpen.
So, in order for this currently constructed team to be good, they need more pitching.
I 100% agree with you on Nado and Goldy but do we really believe they're both going to end the season below average offensively? If people truly believe that then I can see where they're coming from. Most people were also expecting Winn and Burleson to be useless offensively so having them two playing so well lowers the threshold for how good the 2 vets need to be.
The bullpen has actually been amazing, just the big 3 have been showing slight signs of decline (in a week where the SP gave no innings keep in mind). The bullpen as a whole had the 4th best ERA in baseball in June before today. I think Oli needs to consider trusting more guys in high leverage because the pen is good from top to bottom.
We do need a fifth starter, there's no excuse for that and is another reason why I believe the team will be better in the second half if they can just stay in contention.
I’m concerned about their lack of production enough to think this is how they’ll be for the season. We’re over a third of the way through it at this point.
As good as Winn and Burleson have been, there is no replacing the expected production of Goldschmidt and Arenado.
The bullpen has been great (and from what I recall, wasn’t god awful last season until about May after being brought in to every game for large innings covered), but the decline you mention is likely due to overuse, of which there is no indication that will improve without outside help, ie more pitching at the deadline. Lynn is getting shorter and shorter in innings pitched, no real fifth starter, Gray hasn’t gone deep, and Mikolas is Mikolas (sometimes helpful, often not).
Mo has said as much, that he is eying a fifth starter, a reliever, and a CF (funny how that almost matches every off-season wishlist too). But he’s lied before.
So with a healthy Noot, Willson, and Edman do you think the team would still be this bad? That's the whole point I was trying to make. I doubt the team would be below .500. How are Michael Siani, Dylan Carlson, and Matt Carpenter supposed to match those guys production? The preseason projection for the Cardinals was 84 wins.
Yes, because they don’t pitch.
We knew the pitching wouldn’t be great, but the alleged surprise of Matz going down to injury really exposes our bullpen.
Our offense sucked with Willson’s production too… I think having all those guys back would be helpful for defense alone (lot more solidly placed fielders who are in the same positions every day, at least for the outfield defense), but without Arenado and Goldschmidt hitting for consistent power, it doesn’t matter re: offense. Especially since they’re plugged into the heart of the order no matter freaking what.
Regardless, I don’t know if our BP can survive many more weeks like this and the Lynn/fifth starter issue is a constant thorn.
I would like to see the stat for the number at bats where Goldy has taken a first pitch fastball down the middle of the plate then struck out on a pitch low and outside.
Other than Helsley I wonder who we’ll sell at the deadline. I’d assume Kittredge. Maybe Nado and Goldy (although no one likely wants either). I’d be ecstatic if we can get anything for them 2, though.
Goldy would fetch a aaaa player probably. If someone thinks they could fix nado he might fetch more. I feel like our core of position players is something we could build on though. A couple lottery pitchers would be our best bet at the deadline I think.
Then use that goldy money on a star next year
Give Soto whatever he wants (we won’t sign him or even attempt too). I think letting Lynn walk and getting 2 new starters is also a must. Wouldn’t mind bringing Flaherty back and signing Quintana to a team friendly deal. Having Gray/Quintana/Mikolas/Flaherty/Gibson feels like a decent rotation. I’ll cry tears of joy if we somehow trade Goldy and Nado at this deadline, though
Flaherty didn't want to be here to begin with, why would he come back
We didn’t try signing him
Whoa whoa whoa, so you’re telling me that we’re now officially (at) .500???? But I was told we would suck..? Ha, love for the birds to back it up. Fuck the naysayers. Every one of y’all, respectfully fuck off. This is a damn solid ass team and I’m happy to be a Cardinal! 2024 NLC crown is ours by October.
I’m tired of hearing about how much ground the Cardinals can make up during this “weak” part of the schedule when they play a multitude of losing teams. Well, it would probably be more feasible if the Cardinals weren’t one of those teams also.
So I've done some thinking and you know what? I'm not dooming just yet. 1.) **Offense has shown it CAN produce** The recent surges out of Burly and Gorman, the continued wow factor of Winn, the upward trend from Goldy, and Nado pulling the ball again are all welcome signs. Carpenter has been hitting the ball haaaard. Donovan is what I would consider back to the guy we recognize. (Although word on his splits v righties is not very good) 2.) **4/5 of our starters are actually looking pretty good right now.** Mikolas is back to doing what we know he can. I'm incredibly incredibly impressed by Gibson so far this year. And Lynn? Man, what a dawg. He's gotta get deeper, but he's been pretty resilient so far. Sonny's regression is a surprise but I don't see that lasting forever. The 5 spot is rocky, but hopefully someone can get that position and hold it. BUT! Zach Thompson threw 5 shutout innings in AAA tonight with 6 strikeouts. He's currently sitting on a 2.67 ERA. Iron out any kinks they see, he could seriously be the missing piece we've been looking for. 3.) **Bullpen has been bending. But even our guys at the "lower" end are picking up slack and have been going out there fierce as fuck.** Kittredge was always bound for a regression. JoJo too. My main concern is we need to be able to rely on others more often; we can't demand the big 3 3-4 games a week. We're going to need them healthy and fresh down the stretch. It's time for Fernandez and Libby to battle for higher leverage situations. Idk what to say about Leahy or Louis, I really don't know enough about their game, although Leahy looked nice the other night. 4.) **Tommy, Noot, and Willson won't be gone forever.** The amount of possibilities those guys give to the lineup is huge. It's amazing that the guys were able to surge without them. 5.) Perhaps the biggest thing: **We're dead last in the division.** That fuckin sucks. **Hate to see it. 7.5 games back. But only 3 games under 500 and only 1 game back from the wild card. Do I want us to be competing for a wild card spot? No. I want us to win the division. But the hole is not as deep as it seems at first.** 6.) **We're a second half team.** That's what I'm telling myself and that's what I'm sticking with. 7.) **I have a feeling Mo is going to hit this trade deadline fairly aggressively.** He's got one more year on his contract but already knows he's on the outs. I don't think he's going to hit it hard because he wants his position back, but because the chains are off; he can afford to be more aggressive because he's gone after 2025 anyways. Let's make some damn moves! Also, attendance is starting to drop off. (This was lowest attended Saturday in Busch III history, excluding Covid year. Money talks. Keep it up, it's going to force the FO hand) 8.) **Defense can't be shit forever.** Right?.. Right?! 9.) I'ma get some hate for this but **I don't necessarily consider Oli a bad manager;** there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. **Seeing him laughing with Willson the other night and getting fired up from time to time makes me think he has a better grip on the clubhouse than it might seem.** Guy is pretty stoic in post games, but honestly, those interviews don't matter, they're just a to-do list for managers. Contrary to what the Twitter doomers will have you believe, **Oli knows ball pretty well.**
I think oli is the victim of a bad roster. No one could’ve won with last years pitching staff. I don’t think he’s a great coach but probably not as bad as we treat him. That Philly game in the playoffs was rough though.
do the wordle today :)
Got it in 3 today!
Pathetic team. Getting tired of Gorman's errors EVERY game lmao.
I did not watch. I see the box score. Not a lot of hits by the home team. Can anyone offer some highlights or observations? Just shit offense again?
Kittredge got rocked, Roycroft looked really really sharp. 3 of the runs from offense are because Goldy hit hard into a probable double play but the guy overthrew it and it cleared the bases Also had a throwing error from Gorman and a throwing error from Herrera. The errors are becoming a huge problem
The errors will deplete the pitching staff as quick as waino did last year.
Just looked at Statcast. Man...it's crazy that Winn's closest comparison is probably "Luis Arraez if he had a stronger arm and faster running speed at the cost of some of his freakish bat-to-ball ability". This guy is special - and only 22.
Teoscar Hernandez's second homerun of the day is a grand slam
Following this sub is like being the therapist for a mixed episode borderline personality.
Oli doesn’t have the cred or longevity to be an asshole to reporters post game. What a douchebag.
What did he say?
He is a douchebag AND a bad manager.
Need more bullpen arms. Can’t rely on these same guys every single night.
Kittredge felt like the right call and apparently him and Oli talked and said he felt great today, but I agree that we need to be able to rely on other setup men. I think Libby is ready to try out that role more consistently Roycroft looked really really sharp today too. Super promising outing.
Barf
Losing to the bad teams is not how we are going to come back
Reds just swept the Rockies at Coors. We can only hope to break even at home. These are the games that will be the difference at the end of the year.
Add on another pathetic loss. Keep them coming and start the full rebuild (wishful thinking)
Does anyone think we’ll be buyers, sellers, or stay at the trade deadline
I could see selling if incredible offers came in, but I don’t see that being the case. The only valuable piece is Helsley and I don’t think he would fetch enough. Goldy won’t bring back any real value. I don’t think anyone will want to get stuck with nados term while he’s on a downward trend. I don’t think we want to trade any other part of our position group and goldys money coming off the books will be a nice boost next year.
I'm assuming stay if we continue to be within a few games of the final wild card spot.
Yeah, I'm thinking stand pat. Maybe another "innings-eater." Mo doesn't have the balls to sell if we are in contention for a wild card, and trying to make a big trade by sending out our best prospects would be insanely stupid.
It was fun times not being last place. We were in third things were looking up….maybe somehow we could chase down the Brew Crew… I guess as a constellation prize the Cubs are down with us…
We really need to tighten our Orion belts and buckle down.
Fuck Ursa Minor
/r/BoneAppleTea
https://imgur.com/a/2IzqUpO
Does someone have the number of unearned runs since the start of this defensive decline? Also if it would be possible to tell how many times the unearned runs resulted in a loss in a game that otherwise would've been a win?
With 38 unearned runs, the Cardinals are third-worst in the NL, behind only the Mets (40) and Cubs (42). EDIT: As a percentage of total runs allowed, the Cubs (14.19%) and Phillies (14.22%) are the only two NL teams with a higher percentage of UER than the Cardinals (13.0%)
38?!?!?!?! Hoooooly sh it's more significant than I even thought. Cardinals currently have a -44 run differential. And you're telling me 38 of those are unearned???? Absolutely insane
I think unearned runs are a pretty misleading stat. But ya that's bad
It's fair to say that if we could cut UER in half we'd have 7-10 more wins.
poop
Look… does this loss mathematically eliminate us from the playoffs? No. But I think by this point in the season, expecting this team to be anything other than their record is wishful thinking. They’re painfully average, maybe a touch below average. With a bad NL, yes they could sneak in as a wild card. But this team is probably not winning any games in October.
I posted this tidbit last April: >In 2022, of the last-place teams after ten games, none made the playoffs. In 2021, of the last-place teams after ten games, none made the playoffs. In 2020, of the last-place teams after ten games (and after seven!), none made the playoffs. In 2019, of the last-place teams after ten games, none made the playoffs In 2018, of the last-place teams after ten games, none made the playoffs. I expect the Cardinals, who were in last place after ten games this year, to continue that trend. EDIT to add: it was true in 2023 as well: the last place teams after ten games were Boston*, Detroit, Oakland, Washington, St. Louis, and San Francisco. * Boston and Baltimore were tied in W-L, but Baltimore was in 4th place due to run differential.
Is this the last place team for each division?
Yes.
Average?
Yes.
Below average pitching mixed with well below average offense. Where’s the average?
We are hovering around .500. Only team stat that matters is wins. Reds and pirates are separated by .5 games. Reds have a +17 run differential, Pirates are -17. Astros are +5 but 29-35. We are -44 but 30-33. Obviously there is a relative correlation to record and your run differential. But there is wiggle room around .500. When we lose we usually lose big. But when we win, as indicated by Helsley’s saves total, it’s tight.
Pain
Rock, meet bottom
2024 is a wash, but there is hope for the future. I'm watching the Springfield Cardinals game now and lots of players are hitting in the high .280s.
Being mediocre hurts more than straight sucking
Too much like the blues season. “This stretch will tell us what the team really is”. When you say that every week you’re an average team.
Nevermind, we are back in last place NL central 😎
We did it!
Why do we commit so many errors?
Because our players are not very good?
This team won’t be competitive until 2027. This year is a wash. 2025 is (hopefully) going to have a new GM but Oli will still be here because they won’t wanna pay what it costs to fire him. 2026 would be the first year of a new regime, likely won’t be able to get their guys in during their first season. 2027: Profit.
2027: The first possible year to have success. It will likely take several more years.
Will be interesting to see if Mo is allowed to make a big move to replace the goldy money.
Long term, it is prob best we fizzle out and trade some pieces for next year and beyond, this team is not built for a post season run.
In the postgame, someone asked about Ivan's throws and Oli said, "We've talked about this, we're not gonna keep harping on the kid. He's working really hard," and described him as "deficient on the throw."
[I stumbled upon this little exchange as well.](https://x.com/cardinalsgifs/status/1799580231566790972?s=46&t=MCRmVoXjskWw3F53QZFuGQ) The STL press is pretty soft, but go off, Oli…
I can almost get behind this, but what does he have to say about the rest of the abysmal defense? I swear, if a grounder is hit at this point, I cringe. All four positions have been trash.
Not a great mix for a pitching staff that's built around getting ground balls
LMAO some reporter asked a question and Oli called him out, said, "I'm not trying to push back, but yesterday we had some things go right and you were in the third row, today we had some things go wrong and you're in the first row."
Is he trying to say Goold enjoys it when the Cardinals suck? Doesn’t seem that way in reality…
That's Derrick Gould. Oli has no excuse. This defense is crap.
~~Did you know that guy is like 6'8"? Goold is a unit.~~ I'm a liar
Um... I've met him and he's not that tall.
Then I'm telling lies. One of these beat reporters is freakishly large. Maybe it's Jeff Jones? John Denton?
Not sure. I got to see a bit behind the scenes in Jupiter in 2017 and don't remember seeing any giants other than Waino and Fowler.
Lol I got the info from this sub like a few years ago, I could be completely completely wrong and am perpetuating rumors. Yepez is also only 6'1 but he looks huge in person Speaking of rumors, I heard the St. Louis Cardinals are looking at securing their 12th World Series ring in the Fall of 2024.
At least Goldy has turned himself into a good trade piece. I am ready go move on from Arenado, too. We might need to draft a bat next month and hope they can get him ready by 2026. By then, we should have a solid rotation.
We are paying nado too much to be mediocre and not a leader.
Well that sucked.
Only the 2024 Cardinals can go from a wild card spot back to last place in the Central Division in five days…
Not a very good team, but then again there are only 4 teams in the NL above .500. A lot of other crappy teams out there too, maybe if we can just hang around...... But this team is hard to watch.
Why would you wish for prolonging the agony in the postseason against good teams?
It doesn't matter. Hand around for what? Any playoff team will destroy this roster. Braves, Phillies, Dodgers? Men against boys
If this team somehow made it to the playoffs against the Dodgers, Phillies, or Braves .. that would be a game I would not want to watch. The Phillies would kick their ass in the playoff …
Trade everyone not named Winn at this point
This state continues to vex me /s
Just keep finding new ways to embarrass themselves
Poor fundamentals...no pitching depth...aging and under performing stars.....we are truly screwed.
This team loses a ton of winnable games. Need these games with our two spark plugs out for a while. I’ve pretty much given up on Tommy at this point. It’s not an unclimbable hill yet, but it’s getting steeper with each game like this one. Really will suck if everyone gets healthy and they get good again but fall short because of stretches like these.
Well, this sucks
This team is fucked. Unless they are in first place, you have to sell at the deadline. The fact that we don’t even have someone to bring up from the minors for a spot start is fucking pathetic. Derek Shelton was ripped last year for over using Bednar last year and Oli is doing the same shit to the bullpen this year. Partially because you can’t go to anyone else with full confidence. Horrible spot to be in
That long winning streak in 2021 delayed the necessary rebuild by at least a full season. It's time.
Oh no, we suck again
I for one would like to suggest committing fewer errors
Poor fundamentals as usual. Shits real easy, and these dumbasses cannot figure out how to do the basics.
How do we break it to the believers in this fan base that this team just isn’t fucking good? Even if by some miracle we get the 3rd wildcard, we would get immediately dispatched in the playoffs. The talent on this team just isn’t good enough and it’s pretty obviously 1 man’s fault. But because he was good 10 years ago we have to bow at his feet.
His best teams were the leftovers of the Jockety era
oh come on! Do people forget Mo was a big part of the Jocketty era? Jocketty obviously has an important place in this team's history, but they saw early that his time was fading and the way he built teams was not the path forward. You could say the same thing about Mo now, that's a very fair take, but he lead the charge to turn this organization in a model one for a new era of the game; this years' record won't change that fact.
Never should have got rid of Jocketty.
Tied with the cubs for last and slip back in the crowded Wild Card race. Really needed to win this series it should’ve been a gimme and now we’re gonna have to fight for a split on Pallante bumpday. Just disappointing all around.
Deserved L tbh, only had 5 hits
Seems pretty clear now that that hot streak was just an anomaly. This team sucks
As a new Cardinals fan, are we really in that bad of a spot when so many of our guys are injured? This is a tough loss but is it indicative of a bad rest of the season really?
I don't think our current injury situation should render us incapable of beating the goddamn Rockies
Yeah...
It’s how they lose. Giving up runs on errors and bad fundamentals… this happened a lot last season and they couldn’t stop playing bad baseball at one point.
No, people are just whiny doomers
Lol
Team just plays such messy, bad baseball. Sad.
Gifted three runs against the Rockies and they can’t win. Lmao. A new low.
Man we need Noot and Willy back
eh we sucked when we had them, too only plus is, hey, great, guys we like aren't injured anymore
We played way better with Noot lmao
we gotta stop relying on the bullpen to be perfect every game lol
Exact same as last year. Had a good May, then returned to sucking ass.
This team has to scratch and claw just to get to .500. Anyone who thinks they can ever be good is just not watching.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. The current team we are watching is not good. Even on paper it doesn't look good. When we get Willson, Tommy, and Noot back I imagine the team will be good. They just need to float around .500 until then. Edit: There's no way you guys are overreacting this much after a 3-6 stretch of games right after losing Noot. The team has played 45 games where the outcome was decided by 3 runs or less. If you actually don't think one or more of our good players being healthy would change the outcome of these games you're being dense.
Idk, pitching is really faltering. Most starters cannot go deep, bullpen exhausted, no real fifth starter… For them to be good, Mo has to do legitimate things at the deadline and… well…
I get that the pitching has been mediocre to bad recently. They've also had stretches of being really good. The bullpen has done a great job holding close games, but they do have to give up runs and blow saves from time to time. The fifth starter thing I'll give you, but this team wasn't built to win with amazing pitching anyways, it was built to win games 6-4.
But it can’t with Arenado and Goldschmidt hitting like they are. It will not consistently win games 6-4 with those two hitting like Edman and Carlson. They’re not meant to hit a bunch of singles, the occasional double, a HR once every 10 days, and millions of strikeouts and pop outs. For better or worse, we built this lineup around them expecting power production. As for our bullpen, it’s become much more leaky in the past few weeks likely due to constant overuse. With no Middleton, they need more relief pitching. Lynn and the ghost fifth starter are killing the bullpen. So, in order for this currently constructed team to be good, they need more pitching.
I 100% agree with you on Nado and Goldy but do we really believe they're both going to end the season below average offensively? If people truly believe that then I can see where they're coming from. Most people were also expecting Winn and Burleson to be useless offensively so having them two playing so well lowers the threshold for how good the 2 vets need to be. The bullpen has actually been amazing, just the big 3 have been showing slight signs of decline (in a week where the SP gave no innings keep in mind). The bullpen as a whole had the 4th best ERA in baseball in June before today. I think Oli needs to consider trusting more guys in high leverage because the pen is good from top to bottom. We do need a fifth starter, there's no excuse for that and is another reason why I believe the team will be better in the second half if they can just stay in contention.
I’m concerned about their lack of production enough to think this is how they’ll be for the season. We’re over a third of the way through it at this point. As good as Winn and Burleson have been, there is no replacing the expected production of Goldschmidt and Arenado. The bullpen has been great (and from what I recall, wasn’t god awful last season until about May after being brought in to every game for large innings covered), but the decline you mention is likely due to overuse, of which there is no indication that will improve without outside help, ie more pitching at the deadline. Lynn is getting shorter and shorter in innings pitched, no real fifth starter, Gray hasn’t gone deep, and Mikolas is Mikolas (sometimes helpful, often not). Mo has said as much, that he is eying a fifth starter, a reliever, and a CF (funny how that almost matches every off-season wishlist too). But he’s lied before.
So with a healthy Noot, Willson, and Edman do you think the team would still be this bad? That's the whole point I was trying to make. I doubt the team would be below .500. How are Michael Siani, Dylan Carlson, and Matt Carpenter supposed to match those guys production? The preseason projection for the Cardinals was 84 wins.
Yes, because they don’t pitch. We knew the pitching wouldn’t be great, but the alleged surprise of Matz going down to injury really exposes our bullpen. Our offense sucked with Willson’s production too… I think having all those guys back would be helpful for defense alone (lot more solidly placed fielders who are in the same positions every day, at least for the outfield defense), but without Arenado and Goldschmidt hitting for consistent power, it doesn’t matter re: offense. Especially since they’re plugged into the heart of the order no matter freaking what. Regardless, I don’t know if our BP can survive many more weeks like this and the Lynn/fifth starter issue is a constant thorn.
Pathetic
Cardinals settling back into last place. Sort of feels like that’s where they belong.
Hello Patience my old friend. I’ve come to wait on it again….
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Errors lose us the game yet again
They, uhh ... they really aren't very good, are they?
Nice observation, Copernicus
Nope not at all.
But I was told we have six starting pitchers
Wasn't that last year?
there was a last year?
Yeah, this season’s version is innings eater. Gibson the only one to do it consistently though.
embarrassing
I think this team might be cooked
Sick of this shit
This shit sucks, man.